Missouri school district bans t-shirts for acknowledging evolution.
Missouri school district bans t-shirts for acknowledging evolution.
T-shirts worn by members of the Smith-Cotton High School band have been recalled by the school district because they contained images of evolution. The t-shirts featured an image of a monkey holding a brass instrument and progressing through various stages of evolution until eventually becoming a human. “I was disappointed with the image on the shirt,” said Sherry Melby, a band parent who teaches in the district. “I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.” Assistant superintendent Brad Pollitt explained that the t-shirts were banned because they were imposing on religious views:
Though the shirts don’t violate the school’s dress code, Pollitt noted that the district is required by law to remain neutral on religion.
“If the shirts had said ‘Brass Resurrections’ and had a picture of Jesus on the cross, we would have done the same thing,” Pollitt said.
Law professor Jonathan Turley notes, “Evolution is not a religious issue. Extremists want to make evolution into a religious question, but it is not.”
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Get new tees with the caption:
READ YOUR DARWIN
with a photo of the cover of his book; The Origin of Species
August 31st, 2009 at 1:41 pm“the district is required by law to remain neutral on religion.”
So does that mean they don’t allow Jewish kids to wear Star of David necklaces?
August 31st, 2009 at 1:42 pmBecause we all know science has no place in our school systems.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:42 pmFor a clever analogy, check this blog entry out:
http://skepticblog.org/2009/08/31/facts-are-not-anti-religious/
August 31st, 2009 at 1:44 pmAh the morons are speaking out again. Amazing. Evolution is not a theory folks. It is a well established fact. Let us understand that we are not brain dead and that thinking is required. It is freedom of speech that protects this shirt not religious fundamentalism.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:45 pmWhere can I buy one?
August 31st, 2009 at 1:45 pm“I was disappointed with the image on the shirt,” said Sherry Melby, a band parent who teaches in the district. “I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.”
Yeah, if there’s one thing you don’t want associated with your local high school, it’s a basic scientific theory that’s backed by centuries of evidence.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:45 pmright wingers are scared of science because science tends to prove the fallacy of their religion
willfully imposing ignorance on a child is child abuse and should be punished as such
August 31st, 2009 at 1:46 pmYes dont do science its a bad thing you might learn about how things really work out.
and the big hint it has nothing to do with religion at all.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:46 pmWell, it isn’t a religious issue, per se, but it’s certainly an issue for some religious.
The argument will continue until Hell freezes over. Oop, wrong mythology; Hell IS frozen over – it’s where the souls of the dead Norse wander, ergo, it’s already pretty cold. Let’s try, “The argument will continue until Hades fre…”. Nope, that one doesn’t cut it either. How about, the argument will continue until the eternal pit of fire and flame freezes over?
Anyway, mixing science and religion in the presence of some people who pretend to be adults is not a good idea.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:46 pmLaw professor Jonathan Turley notes, “Evolution is not a religious issue. Extremists want to make evolution into a religious question, but it is not.”
Spot on.
The idea that evolution threatens someone’s faith is born of a very shaky faith, and one that is molded to protect one from spiritual questions rather than to help face them.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:48 pmBTW, this is a longstanding joke about the relative intelligence of various instrumentalists. Please note: the bass drum is on top!
August 31st, 2009 at 1:49 pm“I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.”
Don’t worry. It’s not.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:49 pmThis sort of willful ignorance and intentional disregard of science is shameful. Get your religion out of my science!!!
August 31st, 2009 at 1:50 pmThe stupid it burns really, really bad!
August 31st, 2009 at 1:50 pmThe Great State of Missouri is devolving.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:50 pmI want one of those shirts.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:51 pmDarwin himself said evolution and Religion are not necessarily in conflict.
And we now have in the NIH Francis Collins. a well respected scientist who believe in evolution and is an outspoken Christian.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:51 pmScience and Religion can be reconciled with each other, but not if you don’t understand the basic principles under which each operate. And definitely not if you think that the theor of evolution is a religious belief….
August 31st, 2009 at 1:51 pmI loves me some Jonathan Turley. I can always count on him to cut through the BS.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:51 pmThose folks are stupid-ass crazy.
I don’t want them making any sort of decisions affecting my life whatsoever.
That’s the repiggie party in a nutshell, with an emphasis on the “nut.”
August 31st, 2009 at 1:52 pmEvolution is science.
Creationism is religion.
People in Misouri can’t tell the difference. It’s hard for those parents to read those multi-syllable words on their kids’ T-shirts.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:52 pmOh, yeah. One more thing.
WTF is an “image of evolution”? Evolution is a process and cannot be imaged in the ordinary sense. It can be illustrated and cartooned and lampooned, etc, but no “image” exists.
With a little science and some rather intricate mathematics, one might be able to argue that the Universe in its dynamic is the image of evolution, but I don’t think that’s what the bozos in that school district board meant.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:53 pmI agree, Science and Religion can be reconciled. You just can’t reconcile it with the Bible, which is their major stopping point.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:53 pm“…next thing you know, they’ll be trying to put correct math equations on their shirts, and from there, you’re just about an inch from total anarchy…”
evolution is not a religion, Mrs. Sherry “Imadummy” Melby.
(and what good reason could there possibly be for having to issue a reminder on that??????!!)
August 31st, 2009 at 1:53 pmMaybe for Brad Pollitt the progression should have been backwards…
…man de-evolves to monkey or maybe have man walking around with dinosaurs.
Would have been more representative of the religious nut balls.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:53 pm“I was disappointed with the image on the shirt,” said Sherry Melby, a band parent who teaches in the district. “I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.”
… not to mention calculus, history or — God forbid! — health!
And don’t get me started on English literature!
–
–
Home Ec is approved. And Wood Shop, that’s fine. After all, Jesus was a carpenter.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:53 pmFrom the article above:
Sherry and Brad are morons!!!!!!
August 31st, 2009 at 1:57 pmRantingTommy says:
right wingers are scared of science because science tends to prove the fallacy of their religion
The funny thing is, it doesn’t. Science has nothing whatsoever to say about purely metaphysical questions.
The problem occurs when people start trying to claim that matters of fact are matters of faith. But if you believe that God created the universe, then you must believe that God authored whatever truths we can discover by rationally analyzing the universe around us, more so than what some drug-addled desert dwelling “prophet” scribbled down thousands of years ago. That is to say, God is definitely the author of whatever science tells us, even if you believe that he’s probably the author of the bible.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:57 pmIt’s worth reposting:
“God Himself, sir, does not propose to judge a man until his life is over. Why should you and I?”
“Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses.”
“Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies.”
“Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world.”
“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.”
“Without religion, we’d have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
“In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point.”
“It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
“Creationists make it sound like a ‘theory’ is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.”
“Faith: not wanting to know what is true.”
“Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration–courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth.”
>
>
>
“Get smart and I’ll fcuk you over — sayeth The Lord.”-FZ
August 31st, 2009 at 1:59 pmCould somebody please post a link taking me to a site where I can order myself one of these t-shirts?
August 31st, 2009 at 2:00 pmMan, if I lived there and my kid went to that school I’d be losing my everloving mind about now. I’d be seriously suing everybody I could to find out whether they actually thought evolution was a matter of mere religious dogma.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:01 pmThey don’t believe in evolution because it never took hold in their families.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:01 pmMissouri motto:
August 31st, 2009 at 2:03 pmInsult my intelligence
Not my religion
If Missouri is the “show me” state, then I have desire to see what’s next. Who turned the idiots loose to judge to tee shirt contest? This school distracit is moving backwards at the speed of a very dim light bulb. This ignorance is vast in its’ “Scopes”.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:03 pmIt would make sense for all of Christianity to be proud of the great scientist-Christians of the past and present.
Instead some people act like they don’t exist.
For example I am shocked by how many people have no idea that Gregor Mendel was a Priest.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:04 pmSmith-Cotton High School
Mailing Address: 312 E Broadway Blvd
Sedalia, MO 65301-5898
Phone: (660) 829-6311
August 31st, 2009 at 2:05 pmFax: (660) 829-6410
“Assistant superintendent Brad Pollitt explained that the t-shirts were banned because they were imposing on religious views”
Now you know why our children are being raised stupid-to-the-core.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:05 pmThis is Christian conservative political correctness gone wild. It’s pandering to Christian totalitarianism. Science is not religion. The United States is heading toward third world status because lawmakers and the media, acting out of fear of the right wing shredding machine are appeasing Christian fundamentalism. The Europeans and Asians are going to become the new world leaders in science and technology because we have allowed Christian political correctness to seep into our culture and control the debate.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:05 pmNext up, what about t-shirts that display the heliocentric model of the solar system? That’s a direct contradiction of Genesis.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:06 pmA theory based on physical evidence, available to anyone who cares to apply rational thought processes versus a belief based on a 2,000 year old book that says virgin birth is real.
Can anyone tell me if there are any other 2,000 year old ideas that are still held as fact today?
August 31st, 2009 at 2:07 pmDid you know that children in public schools are being taught that the Sun is our only source of light, when the Bible clearly states that God made two sources of light, the Sun and the Moon??!!
I think it’s time for the schools to give equal time to the “theory” that the Moon is another source of light and not something simply reflecting light from the Sun.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:08 pm“So does that mean they don’t allow Jewish kids to wear Star of David necklaces?”
Even better…no crosses, St. Christopher medals, WWJD bracelets…
Given a couple of enterprising kids (like those involved in the shirt design), this could become a serious hassle for the school.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:08 pmhttp://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Mens-Three-Short-Sleeve/product-reviews/B002HJ377A
This design was also rejected because the inclusion of the full moon offended some who see it as endorsing a ‘Heliocentric’ view of the solar system.
‘I choose not to look at the phases of the moon at home,’ commented one parent, ‘why should my children be subjected to the phases of the moon on a t-shirt?’
Also many parents have requested that the ‘awesome’ wolves be replaced with turtles… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down
/sarc
August 31st, 2009 at 2:08 pmReasonably intelligent people are quite able to reconcile science and their religion. It is unfortunate that the primitive-minded who have not progressed over the past twenty thousand years still roam the earth and many have settled in Missouri, Texas and other parts of the US.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:09 pmTheir children and grandhildren not only have to depend upon their teachers more than other children, but they also have to deal with their own parents/grandparents who are obviously retarded in development.
Yep, that flat-earth dis-ease in Okla-homa seems to have crossed the border into Miss-ouri, no doubt… “We have to be neutral on human stupidity, you-all know…”
August 31st, 2009 at 2:09 pmrhombulus says:
Looks to me like they’d better do something about that area code, too – and fast…
They’re just a 6-pack away from THE BEAST!!!!
Run Fundies, Run!!!!!!!!
August 31st, 2009 at 2:10 pmralph the wonder llama says:
“The idea that evolution threatens someone’s faith is born of a very shaky faith, and one that is molded to protect one from spiritual questions rather than to help face them.” and other things.
Ralph, my friend, you are spot on this morning and delivering perfectly worded succinct points. I give you straight 10’s across the board and want to know what you put on your Wheaties this morning. If only a majority could exercise your cognitive reasoning…
August 31st, 2009 at 2:10 pmCan someone produce a ‘Smith-Cotton PTA’ T-shirt?
Smith Cotton P.T.A.
‘Turtles… all the way down’
Please?
August 31st, 2009 at 2:11 pmWhat’s interesting, Hooda, is the prevalence of similar myths from other cultures pre-dating the New Testament period. For instance, Dionysos shares many parallels with Jesus, including being born of a virgin.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:13 pmpjkool: “The Europeans and Asians are going to become the new world leaders in science and technology because we have allowed Christian political correctness to seep into our culture and control the debate.”
What major Asian country has the most poverty and has been the last to share in the prosperity of building things for the rest of the world? It’s the most Christian of all Asian nations – The Philippines. Co-incidence?
August 31st, 2009 at 2:14 pmFor instance, Dionysos shares many parallels with Jesus, including being born of a virgin.
And he could make some MEAN wine outta water… or really anything close at hand.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:14 pmWow. This reminds me of the girl in my HS who got excused from a choir concert due to religious reasons. According to her family’s religion, it was worse than inappropriate to sing the Pie Jesu from the Andrew Lloyd Webber Requiem.
Strangely, they didn’t object her singing the time they did the theme song from Fame…
August 31st, 2009 at 2:15 pmThanks for the kind words, machost. Cheers.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:16 pmChristianity
August 31st, 2009 at 2:16 pmIs about waiting your turn
It just never comes
“I don’t think education should be associated with our school.”
fixed it.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:16 pmRalph, there isn’t a single mythological concept that is unique to Christianity. The only thing it has that is fairly unique for the time is the ideas about human equality.
Sad part is, that is the one thing they play down while they love trying to out myth the other mythology.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:17 pm***
it’s all wrong.
man did not evolve
to wind up playing the bass drum.
*
repent ludwig,
surrender dorothy.
:\
August 31st, 2009 at 2:17 pmlearning is detrimental to religious beliefs
the more one learns, the less one believes in fantasy
hence the reflexive religious revulsion to reality
August 31st, 2009 at 2:19 pmralph the wonder llama,
Budda was spawned from the side of his mother. Religious men and religion in general just HATEs themselves a bunch of vagina and women.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:21 pmRe: #5, “Evolution is not a theory folks. It is a well established fact. ”
I don’t believe that is true. Evolution is a theory – a well accepted theory, but a theory none-the-less. Presently, there is no way to prove or disprove the theory, least none that everyone can agree upon – thus, it’s fodder for the extremes.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:21 pmMissouri school district bans t-shirts for acknowledging evolution.
– - In that case, they’ll LOVE these shirts:
August 31st, 2009 at 2:22 pmhttp://wearscience.com/
If they’re banning the shirts, how can they be remaining neutral? It seems like the first amendment would have to be violated in order to uphold that law.
Are the kids allowed to wear color? That wouldn’t be neutral for Amish would it?
August 31st, 2009 at 2:22 pmJesus wasn’t born on Dec. 25th. The Church co-opted the the Midwinter pagan Solstice celebration. And it is just a coincidence that the resurrection happens around the Spring equinox pagan celebration. Pick a Christian holiday and you will most likely find a pagan equivalent.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:23 pmAnd to think that a hundred years ago, Sedalia was highly instrumental in the muscial formation of Scott Joplin / Ragtime.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:24 pmGravity is a “theory” as well. The word “theory” in science has special meaning. Nobody questions the existence or the effect of gravity, even though it’s a theory. And, no legitimate scientist questions the large body of multi-discipline data that support some kind of evolutionary system.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:25 pmEver so slightly OT, but still in reference to these fundies…
Someone has seen the opportunity to cash in on the Rapture Readies out there, and is offering care (for a fee) of your “earth-bound pets” for after the rapture comes.
Already available in 20 states – Oklahoma included, shockingly – but sadly not in Missouri yet…
August 31st, 2009 at 2:26 pmAnd the anniversary of the death of Christ occurs on a different day every year. You would think that God would provide a death certificate so that Easter would be on the same day every year.
Christmas and Easter are Pagan holidays!
August 31st, 2009 at 2:27 pmHahahhhhaaaa!!!!
Hoodathunk @ 64:
You hit the nail on the head. Ask a Christian why there are bunny rabbits and eggs on easter and you’ll get a blank stare. Then tell them it’s because the church co-opted pagen fertility holidays in the spring time to get people to adopt their faith.
“You celebrate something at this time of the year? Amazing! You must do that because the one true god has a holiday at that time. Convert now…. (or we’ll kill you).”
August 31st, 2009 at 2:28 pm“And the anniversary of the death of Christ occurs on a different day every year. You would think that God would provide a death certificate so that Easter would be on the same day every year.”
don’t you know his death certificate is a fake?
He wasn’t really born in the middle east so he can’t really be the messiah.
;P
August 31st, 2009 at 2:31 pm“You hit the nail on the head. Ask a Christian why there are bunny rabbits and eggs on easter and you’ll get a blank stare”
There symbols of rebirth obviously.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:32 pmDevolution; not just for 3rd World Countries anymore!
August 31st, 2009 at 2:35 pmIf you don’t think that “evolution should be associated with” your school? It’s not a school.
Sherry Melby’s children should be expelled, her school taxes should be refunded, and she can find some venue besides the public schools to educate her kids. I feel sorry for them but their continued presence is making the whole school stupider.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:37 pmthe whole religion is fake
August 31st, 2009 at 2:38 pmlol, Joseph the Plumber
August 31st, 2009 at 2:39 pmralph the wonder llama says: “Home Ec is approved. And Wood Shop, that’s fine. After all, Jesus was a carpenter.”
Goddammit ralph! Jesus WASN’T a carpenter! Jesus was an unemployed and troubled youth who became a street magician and a critic of the material and philosophical corruption of the established religious socio-political system.
He was also at various times a pig-murderer, an apostate, and in the end believed his own publicity.
Jesus’ father was the carpenter, who apparently willingly accepted his wife’s story about the cause of her pregnancy.
Given Joseph’s apparent gullibility and lack of reasoning, I doubt Joseph was much of a businessman or much of a carpenter. Of course standards were pretty low back then–he was probably as much a carpenter as Bob Villa .
August 31st, 2009 at 2:40 pmOMG I WANT THIS SHIRT!
August 31st, 2009 at 2:40 pmBeat me to it.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:44 pmAnd to think that these Psycho-christian freaks have the gall to bleat “persecution” when we shush their hate-speech. They are really bent on a return to the Dark Ages. Heck! One could argue that we entered a new dark age the moment Ronnie Raygun made Jerry Fallwell relevant.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:44 pmI called the above number and was transferred to another number.
I called information and found out the number to the school is 660-829-6300.
I called that number and ask to buy a t-shirt. The person on the other end was laughing her ass off. I said I needed hundreds of them to sell on EBay and she just kept laughing her ass off.
I was told to call 660-829-6450.
I called then up and they would not sell me a shirt and did not want to discuss it.
Call’em up. Express yourself.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:44 pm5th Estate says:
You forgot Fig Tree Insulter… http://www.rationalchristianity.net/fig_tree.html
This passage always begs the question, ‘if all the other mountains jumped in the sea, would you too?’
August 31st, 2009 at 2:45 pmIt’s highly likely that band members designed these shirts. I wonder what the students think about these “left behind” adults? More likely it’s the rabid-religious exercising their minority bullying rights.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:45 pmCan I get this shirt online? I’d love to buy one. I think their band could make a lot of money over this.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:47 pmralph,
August 31st, 2009 at 2:48 pmWhen I was studying humanities and we did a semester on mythology I was struck by the numerous similarities in ancient mythology that parallel the bible stories of today.
pollittb@sedalia.k12.mo.us if no one’s already supplied it. I forwarded him Mr. Turley’s article.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:48 pmPollitt is guilty of being an accomplice to intellectual dishonesty. His teaching credentials should be revoked along with the other crackpots in education peddling scientific creationsism. I wonder if he realizes how silly he looks to a lot of educated people.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:49 pmthat is a great t-shirt!
GO MARCHING BANDS!!!
… stupid people are gonna be the death of U.S.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:50 pmNinerFan says: “The word “theory” in science has special meaning.”
Actually I think you will find that the meaning of theory isn’t “special” to science, but rather that it’s common use is special to the majority who use it in ignorance.
Hypothesis is what most people mean when they say theory
I wouldn’t be surprised if the word theory didn’t exist in the common vernacular until the Origin of the Species or Einstein’s Theory of Relativity were widely reported around the world and due to the relative general ignorance/lack of common scientific education at the time the actual meaning of theory–a proven hypothesis—was immediately, accidentally distorted.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:51 pmThey do have an online store, but I’m not seeing the band shirts there… yet.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:51 pmIf you are trying to buy one of these tee-shirts please see my post at #80.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:51 pmpax says:
Where can I buy one?
yes!
all school band programs need financial help…
i’d LOVE to help this band out especially!
August 31st, 2009 at 2:52 pmSidenote: as helium approaches absolute zero, it reaches liquid form and takes on weird quantum features (e.g. it flows uphill) and is assigned a new name Helium II, or HeII. Its solid form is calculated in the negative Kelvins, which of course is unattainable, so in fact, HeII will never freeze over.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:55 pm51. NinerFan sez:…
You sure of that NF? There are problems in the Phillipines, but I’m not sure anything other than the Moslem insurrection in the sourthern islands is directly attributable to religion. The biggest problems come from their oligarchy and corruption in the political process, but even with that, they’re reasonably entrepeneurial folks.
I would have thought that the worst place among Asian nations is Myannmar/Burma, where the problems also have little to do with religion and a lot to do with a corrupt dictatorship.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:56 pm5th Estate,
According to Webster’s, “theory” was used in popular English prior to 1321. I believe it goes back to Greek scientists though it may even predate them.
But, you are correct, that there is only one meaning for the word and it is often misused and/or misunderstood.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:58 pmbelaccifer lacca says: [5th Estate says:] “You forgot Fig Tree Insulter”
I didn’t forget! I just misspoke out of context whilst telling a joke that was only meant to be seen by the right people who wouldn’t be offended, and besides doens;t everyone know that “GOD HATES FIGS!!”.
What’s wrong with that? Jeez, soooo sensitive! :D
August 31st, 2009 at 2:58 pmcd says:
“You hit the nail on the head. Ask a Christian why there are bunny rabbits and eggs on easter and you’ll get a blank stare”
There symbols of rebirth obviously.
Fertility. How pagan…
August 31st, 2009 at 3:01 pm44. belaccifer lacca
did you read the first review for that shirt at amazon?
HI-larious!!!
August 31st, 2009 at 3:06 pmFertility. How pagan…
Fertility isn’t pagan it’s universal and God help you if your people lack it.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:10 pmdid you read the first review for that shirt at amazon?
HI-larious!!!
All of them are pretty funny, katy.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:11 pmSomeone even made a movie…
Can someone page me when bitblt stops by? Or Daryll?
August 31st, 2009 at 3:12 pmDon’t think you can associated evolution with the school board … that’s for sure.
I hope the ACLU sues!
August 31st, 2009 at 3:13 pmIndeed. “the district is required by law to remain neutral on religion”
As a graduate of Missouri schools, high school and the university, I am distraught that someone in the school system does not know that the theory of evolution has nothing to do with religion. The conflict over ToE is within Christianity.
My first concern is that my home state is devolving. Of course that does create more room for progress come the day that they want to advance at faster than the normal rate.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:15 pmI found the t-shirt image at http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/sections/article/gallery/?pic=1&id=18740
August 31st, 2009 at 3:16 pmIt is copy protected and copyright. Just click on that little ‘Close’ button on the lower caption to see the full image.
Is this, perhaps, payback for the “Islam is of the Devil” t-shirt flap? Are we really going to fight our religious wars on the fronts and backs of teenagers?
August 31st, 2009 at 3:22 pmPut them on e-bay kids.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:24 pmYou’ll make some big bucks!!!!
pete says:
Sherry Melby’s children should be expelled, her school taxes should be refunded, and she can find some venue besides the public schools to educate her kids. I feel sorry for them but their continued presence is making the whole school stupider.
She teaches in the district too! Yikes. I wonder what subject?
August 31st, 2009 at 3:26 pmNo wonder our school systems are failing when we have Assistant Principal’s like this.
This, of course, is exactly backwards. It is religion that is imposing on science. Here they are banning science.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:31 pm“I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.”
Translation: Since we are still acting like a bunch of monkeys we obviously have not evolved and would not want there to be any confusion of that fact, as portrayed in this T-Shirt.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:31 pmECSE
http://www.sedalia200.com/staff.html
August 31st, 2009 at 3:31 pmmary lacewing says:
She teaches in the district too! Yikes. I wonder what subject?
Scary indeed, mary. Ignorance like that doesn’t sit idle. It grows and spreads. In fact, I’m willing to bet, based on the available evidence, that she’s the source of the whole “protest”. If this one quote is an indication she shouldn’t be anywhere near a classroom.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:33 pmNow that I look at it closer, the shirt doesn’t actually picture evolution at all. It just shows a marching band line with the liberals in the front and conservative Christians in the back. That’s all.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:34 pmChristians and “Radical” Muslims:
The more you look, the more you realize they are merely two sides of the exact, same coin.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:37 pmMissouri teachers are constantly barraged with religious propaganda by their colleagues. I hear this kind of stuff all the time, and although many have spoken out in defense of ’science’, they are often silenced by threats of unemployment from the administrators who are too scared of ‘the public’ to stand up for real education.
In one instance, I made an off-hand comment to an ‘ass-of-g_d’ (assemblies of g-d) teacher about “…just forgoing any kind of education in favor of a ‘pentecostal madrassa’.” I got reprimanded by an administrator for that remark.
Now I just smile and walk away. There’s no communicating with these people. No point whatsoever.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:39 pmAs I pointed out, “Adaptation/Evolution” is one of the “major strands” at every level of Missouri’s K-12 science curriculum.
So, on top of the kowtowing to complainants and the self-ridicule of their dress code, they’re working against the very curriculum they’re paid to teach. “Shouldn’t be associated with our school,” indeed…
August 31st, 2009 at 3:40 pmThere is not one single comment posted in the Sedalia paper online that supports this lunacy:
http://www.news-leader.com/article/20090830/BREAKING01/90830018/1007/NEWS01/Sedalia+school+district+recalls+evolution-themed+shirts
August 31st, 2009 at 3:41 pmThese are the same idiots that at the “Creation” museum have saddles on dinosaurs–and have the christian revisionist view that this country was founded as a christian nation, and God gives them directions in the bible how this country is to be goverened. They want dominion over the earth, that includes you. So keep your guard up, these people have been working long and hard, and see their chance coming soon.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:42 pmAll kidding aside, I find this story more disturbing than the nutbag praying for the President to die. Nutty preachers say nutty things and are often offensive. I have a certain fatalistic acceptance that we’ll here from them from time to time.
But sending the utterly false message to kids that the theory of evolution is a religious Belief is insidious. I sincerely hope that the sane parents of Smith-Collin’s students remove everyone involved with confiscating the shirts. If these people stand for this their children are doomed.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:46 pmoops! “hear from them…
August 31st, 2009 at 3:51 pmAs a native Missourian, I am completely embarrased. I grew up and lived there before the Republican disease spread over the state. I was a Truman Democrat and cast my first vote for John F. Kennedy when I was barely 18—-the years have not been kind to the Sho-Me state–now it seems you have to Show-Me some intelligence! And, now I live in Blue Oregon, where smart people reside.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:53 pmi called the last ph# at 80…
talked with a very nice, laughing lady…
she said they decided this morning that the shirts will NOT be for sale, tho she didn’t know WHAT they would do with them…
i said, ‘well give them to those kids to wear!’ and she said ‘i know!… i just want to tell some people to CHILL!’…
she said she was glad to know i approved as she was getting some calls against the shirts… i have a feeling if they had more positive calls, it could help out…
August 31st, 2009 at 3:54 pmpete says:
Are we really going to fight our religious wars on the fronts and backs of teenagers?
At least it’s better than fighting religious wars using their blood, as we did in Iraq.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:56 pmFred says:
There is not one single comment posted in the Sedalia paper online that supports this lunacy
My favorite comment is the very first one, which is on page 3 at 9:47pm.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:58 pmSo, something that merely implies proven scientific theory is censored by superstitious religious beliefs in public schools now.
Perhaps it would be more appropriate for the evolutionary images on that shirt to face the other direction.
Backwards.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:01 pmI’ve never even seen those shirts as “acknowledging” evolution, anyway. They’re poking fun at the evolutionary chart as much as anything.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:05 pmfrom the Sedalia Damocrat story:
Pollitt said the district would now have to absorb the cost of the T-shirts — $700 — that would have been paid for by the band parents. Pollitt said an anonymous donor had originally planned to pay half the cost, but declined after the evolution image was placed on the shirts. However, the donor does plan to fund half the price of the new T-shirts.
chump donor.
listen, if you have never been to a MARCHING BAND FIELD COMPETITION, and if you enjoy even a little bit a good marching band, you need to find out where the shows are and GO TO THEM!!!
the kids work immensely hard – football practice is comparable (ok, not as violent and poundingly physical) – and the shows are (mostly) fantastic and enjoyable and very entertaining…
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SCHOOL BAND!!!
August 31st, 2009 at 4:06 pmElBruce says:
At least it’s better than fighting religious wars using their blood, as we did in Iraq.
You are absolutely right, ElBruce. Alas, often the stifling of free speech, the shouting of slogans, and the bullying of the ignorant, leads to violence all too often.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:06 pmFun fact:
Some of Darwins earliest supporters were Christians.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:06 pmWhere’s bit….
August 31st, 2009 at 4:11 pmtoo bad…
http://www.sedalia200.com/staff.html
August 31st, 2009 at 4:12 pmPettis County Early Childhood Cooperative
Sherry Melby Teacher ECSE melbys@sedalia.k12.mo.us
SAVE THE CHILDREN!!!
So I suppose that electric guitar didn’t evolve from a more ancestral instrument…
August 31st, 2009 at 4:14 pmdbadass says:
Where’s bit….
I haven’t seen bit since his epic implosion on the OTHER
August 31st, 2009 at 4:15 pmt-shirt thread a couple of days ago…
dbadass says:
So I suppose that electric guitar didn’t evolve from a more ancestral instrument…
Everyone knows the electric guitar sprung fully formed from the forehead of Les Paul, may he rest in peace.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:16 pmOT:
Good afternoon, dbadass. While on the subject of evolution, I’ve been enjoying some of the wonders of evolution in my aquarium. My coral shrimp had lost an entire claw and, last night, he extruded a new one as he molted. Cool trick!
August 31st, 2009 at 4:19 pmHi pete:
August 31st, 2009 at 4:21 pmSeems god found time to create a new one for the little fellow.
Those shrimp must just pray more sincerely than humans and other mammals.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:23 pmMy kid was in marching band. 1st chair sax in a #1 and #2 in state band. They do work very hard, and the parents are very involved in the fundraising.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:23 pmThey should sell the shirts anyway, through a progressive website or Ebay.
And Darwin himself studied Divinity at Christ’s College, Cambridge.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:25 pmThe concept that species are not fixed long predates Darwin
August 31st, 2009 at 4:26 pmDarn tootin’,
I also have issues with globes. All globes should be removed from the school. I don’t want our school associated with the idea that the earth is round. The earth is not round or I would have rolled to China already!!! Stop confusing our children!
Take your science out of my school!!
August 31st, 2009 at 4:27 pmI wonder if the say the pledge the way it was written at this school or if they do that new fangled “under god” version…
August 31st, 2009 at 4:31 pmquick and dirty difference between Scientific Theory and Religious “fact”.
Science creates a hypothesis and tries to prove it wrong – failure to prove it incorrect makes it a Theory. Science fully acknowledges that all our scientific knowledge is simply the best explanation with the observations we have.
Religion, on the other hand, starts with a conclusion and has to force our observations to fit the ‘truth’. If our observations do not jive with these ‘truths’, then obviously our observations are incorrect.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:33 pmTo the above discussion on Theory / Hypothesis / etc.
To avoid wordsmithing, I’d point out that we have an observation that apples fall. We have an observation of movement in the Universe. But we still don’t know why.
We have come up with this idea called “gravity”. Similar to ancient pagan religions, the fact that we gave it a name means that we have power over it. To explain it, we have a myth of unseen particles called gravitons. And even invented a story of how they warp time and space only to be sucked into the abysss which we call “black holes”.
Therefore, we cannot claim to teach “gravity” in the schools. There is no “Law of Gravity”. And as such, we are all floating in the air.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:35 pmI still say that these radical anti-evolution people are driven at least partly from their refusal to believe that their ancestors had dark skin because THEY WERE FROM AFRICA!
I don’t think they can handle that fact. Did anyone see that Ntl. Geographic special last night about our DNA?
August 31st, 2009 at 4:35 pmBanning a shirt that has implications is not remaining “neutral” towards religion. It is, in fact, enforcing a JUDEO-CHRISTIAN view. This would not be a “neutral” policy unless they also banned all cross necklaces, and other religion related articles.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:37 pmA Landmark Study of the Human Journey
Where do you really come from? And how did you get to where you live today? DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who—about 60,000 years ago—began a remarkable journey.
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html
My bold.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:39 pmalso – neglected from my above post is the obvious – evolution has nothing to do with religion. It is religion that has a problem with evolution.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:40 pmAnd even then, Dan, this particular T-shirt is irrelevant because evolution is not a religion, nor does it have anything to do with religion.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:43 pmOops, sorry, Dan — I made my comment before seeing your addendum, which I then unwittingly repeated. My bad.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:43 pmAll schools get federal tax money. I don’t want my tax dollars going to the bunch of chimps running this school. The bible thumpers don’t want their tax dollars going for abortions. Well I don’t want my tax money going to religious nuts. We’re even.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:44 pmWhile we have control of congress and the White House we should demand a bill requiring all schools that get federal funding teach evolution in their classrooms. If they don’t want to then we can save a bunch of money not giving them any and put it towards health care.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:47 pmI don’t believe that is true. Evolution is a theory – a well accepted theory, but a theory none-the-less. Presently, there is no way to prove or disprove the theory, least none that everyone can agree upon – thus, it’s fodder for the extremes.
I am surprised that Po got so many down votes. He is actually correct. Evolution is a Theory, not a fact. That is the beauty of science vs religion. It always leaves room for adjustments and improvements in knowledge.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:50 pmAs a former band geek, I would be absolutely delighted to buy one of those shirts.
As for that retard Sherry Melby, well…let’s just say that “My comment is awaiting moderation.”
Oy. Teh Stoopid Strikes Again.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:59 pm“But evolution is only a theory!”
So is gravity but I’ve never seen anything fall upwards.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:07 pmI don’t believe in God. I believe wholeheartedly in evolution. And almost everything I learn about, I attribute to evolution in some way. Evolution is my god.
I do understand why a school board would want to ban this shirt. Not because it’s not true. (Evolution is true). But, because it may be insensitive to the beliefs of some in the school. Right or wrong, it’s controversial.
Here’s my stab at an analogy: Someone comes to school with a shirt that says: “Abortion kills the fetus.”
It may be the truth, but the issue is sensitive to a lot of people. I would understand if those running the school would rather not have the shirt worn.
I understand the two issues are significantly different. I’m open to other analogies.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:11 pmThere’s a problem there, B-kup. Abortion is a religious/ethical issue. Evolution is not. It’s no more controversial to have a message which, in this case, has the slimmest resemblance to an endorsement than it would be to wear a shirt that says “The Sun Produces Light”.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:20 pmpete says: 5th Estate, According to Webster’s, “theory” was used in popular English prior to 1321. I believe it goes back to Greek scientists though it may even predate them.
Well I’ll be darned!
Of course it’s a Greek word, but I have to wonder how actually “popular” it was amongst anyone other than those educated in Greek or Greek-derived texts in 1321, and roughly 150 years before Gutenberg’s invention of ‘mass media’.
Nonetheless, thanks for making an effort that I couldn’t be bothered to trouble myself with at the time. :D
August 31st, 2009 at 5:22 pmPlus, I might add, I am appalled that any public school in the nation doesn’t loudly and proudly endorse the theory of evolution.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:24 pm5th Estate,
Sometimes a question is a better gift than an answer. I had never considered the “modern” use of the word.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:26 pmLadies and Gentlemen… please welcome b-cup and his A-MAZE-ing Analogies!!!!
Sorry, b-cup. This one’s not even worth dissecting. It’s so paper-thin it will just wrinkle up on the scalpel.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:32 pmpete. I don’t think evolution is a religious/ethical issue for us. I think it’s a religious issue to others.
Although those others are wrong, the shirt could cause distraction and disruption for them. Distraction school administrators would want to avoid.
Another example may be the danish cartoons.
I don’t believe in Mohammed and I do believe in free speech. But I understand why administrators would want to avoid the subject in an attempt to avoid the controversy.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:32 pmThe idea that anyone would consider evolution “controversial” is truly mind-boggling to me.
And backup – to equate a relatively accurate depiction of the latter part of our evolution to the Danish cartoons is not a peek at you at your best.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:35 pmAnd if the kids at that school found themselves sitting behind a band member wearing that t-shirt in class they might just find themselves being “distracted” by things both scientific and philosophical. Not a bad kind of distraction in a school setting I would think.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:37 pmNo, b-kup. That doesn’t fly with me. It’s the intentional censorship of a secular idea that was, as nearly as I can tell from the stories, perpetrated by one parent/teacher with a single accomplice. And it’s a wrong as telling children that the Sun is cold. When religious Beliefs shape public school policy I get livid. And when it’s apparently by one or two zealots it’s even worse.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:40 pmI’ve always felt that the difference between religion and science is represented is represented by a geometry problem that appeared in one of my high school (2nd semester freshman) math tests:
“The Earth has a diameter of 7000 miles. If an non-shrinkable continuous belt was constructed to gird the Earth, but was about 6 1/3 inches too long along its circumference, how much would have to added to the diameter of the Earth in order to compensate for the error?”
A Christian conservative would come up with the “obvious” solution of practically nothing. A scientist would arrive at a completely different answer.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:44 pmSo apparently, you don’t draw the line at the point where rational people would see something offensive.
You’re probably right. Much better to cater to the hysterics of fundamentalist sensibilities. Those New Jersey Devils jerseys were too much of a distraction, anyway. I believe the rightwing calls that “political correctness” — at least when it’s applied in the other direction.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:44 pmSorry about the stutter.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:45 pmIt looks like b-cup’s in one of his moods again…
you know, the kind where he takes a contrary position just to argue it? Very silly, b-cup.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:47 pmHeh! We should take donations to print shirts, for any Smith-Cotton student who wants one, that read “The Theory of Evolution is the only accepted Theory for the Diversity of Life on Earth“.
I wonder how the fundies would react to that? Probably a bad idea. It might get some bright, promising, young student hurt.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:48 pmI have a friend who has a T-shirt printing business. I’d suggest that he print up a batch of these shirts and sell them on e-bay… but he’s a bit of a fundie right-winger himself.
I don’t think he’d go for it.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:48 pmagain. I’m a proponent of evolution. I’m doing a terrible job of it, but I’m trying to make the point that although most here don’t see a religious element in evolution, I suppose many in the school do.
It is because a significant population of that school sees evolution as an affront to their religious beliefs – the school may feel the shirts are not appropriate at the school.
Not because evolution is not valid science – only because the issue is controversial in that setting and would be disruptive to the learning environment in general.
Here’s another try:
My 6 year old goes to 1st grade with a shirt the declares: “Santa Claus is a fictional construct of my parents to compel me to be nice and not naughty”.
It’s the truth. But, if it causes all the other 1st graders to become upset and cry the rest of the day, not only will they not learn about evolution – they won’t learn anything else, either.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:49 pmI see your point, backup.
Here’s another controversial “fact” that is probably best not
August 31st, 2009 at 5:54 pmgraphically illustrated on a t-shirt at school:
People procreate.
pete. If it’s one or two zealots, I agree. If the decision is being made because the school’s population is made of religious fundamentalists, it would be more understandable.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:54 pmbackup:
August 31st, 2009 at 5:56 pmWhereas I am opposed to wasteful capitalism can I get all T-Shirts advertising shit people don’t need banned as it upsets my sensibilities and disrupts my capacity to learn due to the anxiety it causes me?
b-cup, where do you draw the line? How many adherents of a religion have to see something as “an affront to their religious beliefs”, however spurious, before it becomes a legitimate issue?
Ignorance of the spiritual nature of the Christian faith is not an excuse to misapply its principles in the name of “religious freedom”.
Science and religion do not ordinarily intersect, at least not on this elemental level. There are some fascinating parallels when you get to the sub-atomic level and compare the scientific orthodoxy to Eastern mysticism (for an excellent but dense read, try Fritjof Capra’s “The Tao of Physics”) but a controversy of this kind is driven by a primitive and ill-informed notion of the Christian faith.
And that’s not even dealing with the stupidity necessary to see this T-shirt design as “promoting evolution”.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:57 pmStill don’t get it, b-cup? This is a public school. A government entity subject to federal labor laws etc. As such they are proscribed from promoting religious convictions. Recalling the shirts is promoting a religious conviction.
Plus, logically, If they ban this shirt then they would also have to ban all mention of evolution from ALL classes. All mention of God/gods too for that matter. They would also have to ban crosses and all other religious symbols.
I might add that. from the few stories I’ve tracked down on this, I’ve seen only two names associated with the decision and no students have come forward to complain of being “distracted”, scandalized, or harmed in any way.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:00 pmABSO-FU(KING-LUTELY.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:01 pmHave you heard of a teachable moment, backup?
First of all, if all the other first graders at your daughters school can read and decode that t-shirt, your school is doing a great job and the students can probably handle the discussion the t-shirt will generate…
Second of all, I have a t-shirt that says ‘I’m with stupid… (with an arrow pointing at my face)’ I have another that declares my undying love for Enrique Eglasias (sp?)
Don’t look to t-shirts for truth is my point… if you can’t see a “Brass Evolution” t-shirt without your religious views being threatened then you need to seriously reconsider your religious views IMHO… this doesn’t threaten or demean any religion.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:01 pmHominid High.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:02 pmdbadass. You could probably do it, but you’ll need a written creed, some amazing legends to lend your movement some credibility, someplace to meet, someone to lead the group, and huge organizational hierarchy to ensure that every ones on the same page. And you’ll probably have to try to eliminate anyone that questions or disagrees with you.
In other words, just copy this:
http://www.freefoto.com/preview/05-08-5?ffid=05-08-5
August 31st, 2009 at 6:02 pmsorry, typo, homonid
August 31st, 2009 at 6:02 pmMaybe it is burka time….
August 31st, 2009 at 6:05 pmI also meant what I said earlier. If any parent can’t handle their public school “promoting” evolution, realism, materialism, and science in general? They can find another way to educate their kids.
I feel sorry for the poor children of these idiots but they are just dragging the rest down if they are as stupid as their parents.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:05 pmbelaccifer lacca, ralph. pete, dbadass, mary and others.
you’re right. you have to draw the line someplace. At some point, the idea is so sound, you can’t suppress it to placate the sensibilities of a particular group.
Additionally, I imagine people that want to where a shirt that proclaimed: “Jesus is Lord”, would not be denied.
I don’t believe in Jesus, but I’m not offended when someone claims him lord. So, the anti-evolutionists should let it go.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:09 pmNow if the band created a FSM t-shirt you might have a point, backup.
‘Cause while I’d find it funny I realize that it is in poor taste and semi-insulting to religion and could be construed as the school endorsing the ‘religion’ of the FSM…
But ‘evolution of brass?’ That is like saying that I should stop wearing my Moon Flag MTV t-shirt ’cause it insults those who think we faked the moon landing…
1) it does no such thing
2) if your belief system is ‘challenged’ by my t-shirt that advances nothing but a popular image changed in a small way to promote music?
Get over it.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:12 pmWoohoo! So when do we get to see the t-shirts that
August 31st, 2009 at 6:13 pmacknowledge that people procreate?
It’s always one or two zealots, b-kup. A couple people start shrieking and that frightens a few more into action. Then a few more go along just to shut them up. Then a few more find a way to make a buck. In it’s worst evolutions (if you’ll pardon the term) it ends with people being broken on a wheel and/or burned alive.
There is a way to stop it though and it’s been practiced by Western culture since the end of the Dark Ages. Eventually, enough people tell the kooks to STFU that they fade away. History books tend to dwell on the bloody exchanges between
Faith and Reason but most disputes are settled with little or no bloodshed. And the way to stop the bloodshed before it occurs is to face the kooks with a united front and shout them down.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:14 pmThese two things are not equivalent, backup.
A ‘Jesus is Lord’ t-shirt would advance a particular religion.
Just as a ‘Islam is of the Devil’ T-shirt is particularily insulting to one religion.
‘Brass Evolution’ does neither of these… just as a ‘Santa Claus brings me presents ’cause I’m good!’ would do neither… you may not believe in Santa Claus but that t-shirt can hardly be said to be advancing or insulting any religion, sorry.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:15 pmI give. Uncle. No good reason to ban the shirt.
And although I’m not afraid of the christian god, I am afraid of belaccifer lacca’s flying spaghetti monster god.
What does it take to appease him? To escape his presumed wrath and my impending damnation?
August 31st, 2009 at 6:18 pmNow THIS is a good analogy. pay attention, b-cup.
It’s not perfect, because the beliefs of those who say the moon landing was faked are hardly as deeply ingrained or a part of their identity for those folks as the belief that the Earth is 6,000 literal years old and that evolution is an attack on the Bible is for fundies. But it’s much better than any of b-cup’s analogies.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:20 pmNever said I was perfect, ralph. Just that I love me some t-shirts…
August 31st, 2009 at 6:27 pmnice work belaccifer lacca.
and ralph. This really hurts: “But it’s much better than any of b-cup’s analogies.”
Maybe I’ll pray to FSM about it…
August 31st, 2009 at 6:43 pmb-cup, I think you were wise to cry “uncle”. Your argument had nothing of substance behind, just sheer willingness to argue. And sometimes that’s not enough.
I trust FSM will treat your prayers kindly. Ramen.
and Belac, the part of your analogy that was particularly good was the Moon Landing MTV T-shirt. It is a near-perfect analogue for the band shirt. Same kind of harmless cultural icon that could be taken absurdly out of context.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:01 pmWell, phooey, I guess we’re never going to see those procreation t-shirts.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:04 pmAll because there are SOME things that SOME people don’t want their children
to learn about, teachable moments or otherwise. It’s a cultural (or
subcultural) thing. But I’m telling you, people DO procreate!
The answer to the math problem in my #164 is about 2 inches (6 1/3 inches over PI(3.14159…). I aced that geometry test.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:05 pmSame kind of harmless cultural icon that could be taken absurdly out of context
Thanks.
I usually like things taken ‘absurdly out of context’ but this is just silly.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:08 pmThanks, Walt. I didn’t want to ask and I’m to lazy to try to think it thru. (hours of potentially fruitless brainwork).
I thought it was possibly a trick question with some huge number for the answer.
What’s the opposite of ace?
August 31st, 2009 at 7:11 pmI imagine that there were just as many stupid people when I was growing up in the 40’s and 50’s but they were not as visible as they are now because of the internet and cable tv.Also,I don’t remember ever thinking as I do now, that these people(politicians ,commentators)believe that we are all nitwits. The asst.supt.and the parent quoted in this article need to use their heads for more than a hat rack.
0
August 31st, 2009 at 7:12 pmspaceman. I appreciate your efforts. Will they give us a discount if we pool our order?
August 31st, 2009 at 7:17 pmAnd, while I’ve been trying to provide backup with some umm, backup because
I thought you guys were pouncing on him a little hard for making a genuine
effort to see someone else’s point of view, I disagree with the school’s
decision.
And I did contact them to try to purchase myself a band t-shirt.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:17 pmOne would hope so, but alas, they seem to be holding onto those heretical bits
August 31st, 2009 at 7:20 pmof cloth pretty tightly.
Also, I don’t get the sense that stupidity was celebrated as it is these days.
Not just by the Republican Party, which embraces ignorance as a virtue, but by “America’s Funniest Home Videos”, reality TV and youtube.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:20 pmYour compassion is admirable. b-cup gets pounced on because he has reputation as a concern troll, and a habit of embracing weirder and more outlandish analogies to defend his silly positions. He does have periods where he contributes positively, of course.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:22 pmB-cup – a whole lot of stupid people believe a whole lot of really, truly stupid things.
That does NOT mean we have to acknowledge them or validate their stupidity.
Give it up.
Evolution = SCIENCE. Period.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:36 pm#201 Ralph –A good observation.Actually,my family didn’t have a tv until 1952.I read newspapers and books.By the way,I’m not longing for the good old days.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:55 pmMissouri proves itself to be pretty damned stupid.
August 31st, 2009 at 8:08 pmIt is a freaking T-SHIRT.
By the way, the school mascot is the tiger. I am uncomfortable with this mascot due to its religious symbolism. It provides favoritism for Hinduism and Buddhism. Because of this obvious association to religion, I ask for Smith-Cotton to pull this mascot in favor of the Smith-Cotton Evangelists.
Talk about a mascot that invokes terror in your opponents!
August 31st, 2009 at 8:46 pmHere’s the key difference between a shirt that is insensitive to religion and one which is merely neutral:
Many Christians believe in evolution. Some don’t. Therefore, evolution is not an anti-Christian thing, as there’s no consensus within Christianity on it. And even if one claimed there were, a comprehensive poll would still tilt towards evolution anyways.
If someone wore a T-shirt that said “Jesus died for nothing,” that would be religiously insensitive, because all Christians believe that Jesus’ death had a purpose. The only point of wearing such a shirt would be to call out Christianity, which is pretty religiously insensitive.
Ditto if someone wore a shirt that said “Islam is of the Devil.” It’s insulting in any Christian or Muslim interpretation.
August 31st, 2009 at 10:22 pmthe native born whites in this country have dug themselves into a hole , after the war you could make a good living in this country without an education , the rest of the world was smoldering from war , or so undeveloped that it would take years to modernize , why they did not value education enough to educate their sons and daughters can be hinted at in this story , what they did teach to their kin was a contempt for details , a hostility to science that conflicted with dogma, and an overall suspicion of books and higher learning . Well now that the rest of the world can compete , look what we got
September 1st, 2009 at 12:07 amSo now our public schools have to kowtow to every superstition and crazy belief of religious nuts?
I suppose Sherry Melby is evidence that at least some human’s intelligence hasn’t evolved past that of the amoeba.
September 1st, 2009 at 12:08 am206. Purple State says: It is a freaking T-SHIRT.
By the way, the school mascot is the tiger. I am uncomfortable with this mascot due to its religious symbolism. It provides favoritism for Hinduism and Buddhism. Because of this obvious association to religion, I ask for Smith-Cotton to pull this mascot in favor of the Smith-Cotton Evangelists… August 31st, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Purple State, I think your request should be denied; you forgot to mention the state religions of China (Mao + Money),
Indonesia (Buggered Variant Islam), and Siberia (Post-Soviet High Church Esquimaux Neo-Paganism); all those people are rich in tigers, too, so it becomes a diversity issue. Between them plus the Hindoos and the Bud-ists, the Cotton-Smith Evangelists are outnumbered, and we have our part of the National Debt which is owed to the Chinese to consider. Even if the Cotton-Smith Evangelists had the South Ron Talibabtists on their side, which may be the case if various comments about zealots are true, they’d still be outnumbered. Tigers it should be.
Aside from that, my high school soph and jr year was spent at a school where the team name was Tigers and the mascot was singular there-of, and it’s not a bad deal for a team. Evangelistas, oop, Evangelists smacks more of a truck load of bible salesmen.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:12 am209. fletc3her sez:…
Let’s not badmouth amoeba. They’re good for starting a round of dysentery and other catastrophes while it’s apparent that Melby wants to start brain-rot and mental constipation. I for one would prefer to deal with the drizzling shits than wake up to find that my last gray cell had drained out my ear and was irrecoverably smeared across my pillow.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:19 amSadly, the band will have to foot some of the cost of the replacement t-shirts. If they tried selling the t-shirts online, I’m sure they could get enough money to cover their losses…and maybe fund a band trip for themselves somewhere. Heck, I’d buy a cool, banned, t-shirt like that!
September 1st, 2009 at 9:04 amI was being snarky and sarcastic there, VP. Sorry I didn’t make myself clear.
Interestingly enough, the school is ranked 4 out of 10 according to their math and communication arts grades for the Missouri average.
Just saying, but perhaps the school board should focus on bigger matters than a T-shirt.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:16 amrsalier says:
Ah the morons are speaking out again. Amazing. Evolution is not a theory folks. It is a well established fact. Let us understand that we are not brain dead and that thinking is required. It is freedom of speech that protects this shirt not religious fundamentalism.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Well, not everyone has heard this, or if they have, the don’t agree, including this one:
Dr. David Berlinski, Philosophy
( one very bright guy who was interviewed in “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” )
and this one:
Dr. Michael Egnor professor of neurosurgery and pediatrics at State University of New York, Stony Brook
and the PHD’s, more than 600, listed at
http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org/
who all agree this this statement:
September 1st, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Dr. Michael Egnor professor of neurosurgery and pediatrics at State University of New York, Stony Brook
I wonder where all the BIOLOGISTS who question evolution are, bit?
Any thoughts on Adams signature on the Treaty of Tripoli yet?
September 1st, 2009 at 9:23 pmWith all this separation of church and state—I’m waiting for one of you to grow some balls, and go pull down the crosses at Arlington, I double dog dare ya’ to do it— or are you chicken hearted? Maybe ya’ll got a white yellow strip down your backs.
September 1st, 2009 at 11:13 pmI’m also willing to bet you all take off Christmas with pay, so if you don’t believe than you should work that day, and any money you may have received in the past for holiday pay you should return promptly.
As for evolution– well, did we come from primates? maybe. but then the Pigs heart is very close the human heart, is that to say we comes from Pigs?
I beleive that life created by God, (and Beleive Christ died to save us from our sins) but we were created with ability to evolve, adapt, and abtain the the knowlage of what is right and wrong (though some have decided to ignore the differance)
Sorry, “iaint,” but I am not into defacing people’s graves.
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 amlessee, in not particular order;
216. I Ain’t (myself today so I’ll annoy) You sez:…
Just off the top of my large hominid primate head, my recollection is that the divergence point from the other primates in the “Great Ape” lineage was around 6 million years ago or so. In your case, we’ll make an exception and say that your ancestors may have been human for, oh, 6000 years.
214. bit sez:…
Don’t pay any attention to rsalier, bit. Evolution is a theory, a big T Theory; rsalier may be confusing theory with Hypothesis or Theorem.
Aside from that, bit, aside from one minor matter, I won’t take a shot at The Scripture if you’ll quit dabbling in science. Go mess about with engineering or technology; those meta-disciplines don’t get tangled in philosophical and theological issues as easily as evolution and creation do.
The minor matter is that I have been amazed for some time about the fact that the general sequence of creation as stated in Genesis 1 is recapitulated in the general hypothesis regarding the creation of the World/Universe. That fact argues for something quite deep in the psyche or soul, does it not?
And with that thought, I leave you for the evening.
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:43 amthing is science has proven the bible to correct
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:01 amIn the future atheism as promoted by those who hate religion will be viewed as a failed ideology.
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:26 amI myself am a native of the (not so) greate state of Missouri, and I must say, this little fiasco doesn’t surprise me in the least. I seriously think there’s something in the public water supply. Thank God (or FSM) I drink well water! :D
September 2nd, 2009 at 3:23 amThe Bible corrects what, according to science?
Jeez! You might learn to write English first if you expect people to take you seriously here.
i aint you says:
September 2nd, 2009 at 5:24 amthing is science has proven the bible to correct
i aint you says:
thing is science has proven the bible to correct
A bit of advice, my friend.
This is not Twitter. You can give as much information here as you want to. There are no restrictions on the amount of characters that you use. Knock yourself out.
Second of all, if you’re so positive that science has proven the Bible to be correct, then give us the facts, smarty pants. If I went onto Hot Air or RedState and told them that science disproves the Bible, they would be on my ass about the “lack of facts”.
So give us facts, iay. Do it.
And I’m calling B.S. if you tell us to Google it ourselves. If a lecturer tells his audience that science proves the Bible and the crowd demands reasons why, the lecturer doesn’t tell his audience to figure it out themselves.
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:15 amall the facts in the world would not convince any of you, you have already convinced yourselves that there is no way you’ll believe. But, just the same, they did find where Mosses crossed the Red Sea, and Mount Sinai. However it don’t matter none to you. You don’t want to accept any of it
September 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 pmTo i aint:
September 2nd, 2009 at 5:51 pmHow do you know what any or all of us believe? There are church-going people among the posters here, and even Darwin himself said that evolution is not incompatible with the Bible. And if you’re going to talk about Moses (not Mosses), at least learn how to spell his name.
Lora– you could have realy fooled me on the church going people on here, concidering , and excuse the yell out of me if i double taped a key. from what i’ve read on this site, i would have to conclude that 99% of libs don’t believe in god or don’t want to, or scared to have any faith ( i’m taking the whole T.P site in general)
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:37 pmI ain’t you-
Again, I thank God everyday that you aren’t me… you seem sad, lonely and angry all at once.
Matthew 7:3 has a message just for you…
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:46 pm224. i aint you says: all the facts in the world would not convince any of you, you have already convinced yourselves that there is no way you’ll believe. But, just the same, they did find where Mosses crossed the Red Sea, and Mount Sinai. However it don’t matter none to you. You don’t want to accept any of it. September 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Hate to be the one to tell you this, IAY, but…
First, I concur with Lora. Work on the spelling and grammar. None of us are perfect; I’ve had to correct a comment I posted just in the last few minutes, but people are a little more willing to listen to an argument if misspelling and grammatical errors aren’t getting in the way.
Second, the location of Mt. Sinai didn’t require any science. There’s been a (Greek) Orthodox monastery there for several centuries; since about the 6th Century AD, and there was a chapel there before that. It has not been demonstrated conclusively, that is, to the general satisfaction of the archeological community as well as to all religious scholars from Christianity, Judaism and Islam that the current Mt. Sinai is the same mountain where Moses received the commandments. Sure, a lot of people go with the tradition that it is, but there are some who are sceptical and rightfully so.
I don’t know that the location of the Red Sea crossing has been discovered or if there really is such a place. There’s a fair amount of speculation as to the actual occurance, along with a lot of stuff found in the Book of Exodus.
September 5th, 2009 at 1:29 amNonetheless, all that is kind of OT. Science, particularly archeology but a couple of other disciplines may have something to say about the “Bible”, but generally speaking, we stand on firmer ground when we recognize that the Bible is not a scientific textbook, that it should not be taken literally regarding creation, and that it is also not a real estate title or conveyance, regardless of what some Israelis and Christians think.
Not regarding Scripture as literal instruction on creation may peeve a few fundamentalists (damn, there has to be another word for those people without “mentalist” in it), but there happens to be a lot more evidence for evolution than there is for the literalist version of creation. Ruining a few high school kid’s fun in order to enforce some idiot’s notion of religious correctness belongs in some other country.
September 5th, 2009 at 1:46 am