Original ‘Birther’ Congressman Converts To ‘Tenther’: Rep. Posey Declares Health Care Reform Unconstitutional
Original ‘Birther’ Congressman Converts To ‘Tenther’: Rep. Posey Declares Health Care Reform Unconstitutional
EDITOR’S NOTE: Over the past month, ThinkProgress has traveled to town hall events across the country to report what we’re seeing on the ground. This is our seventh eyewitness report.
Earlier this week, Rep. Bill Posey (R-FL) held a health care town hall meeting in Melbourne, FL, which attracted well over 2,000 attendees. Posey is most famously known for introducing the “birther” bill — legislation that would require presidential candidates to submit their birth certificates to prove they are really U.S. citizens. But the “birther “conspiracy wasn’t the right-wing fringe theory that Posey spent his time discussing on Wednesday night.
Instead, Posey expressed his allegiance to “tentherism” — a stance adopted by many right-wing activists which posits that health care reform is an unconstitutional infringement on states’ rights. In an interview with ThinkProgress following the event, Posey told us in no uncertain terms that he believes Obama’s health care reform proposal is unconstitutional:
Yeah, I really do. There is nothing — the 10th Amendment he talked about says that all power is not delegated to the United States government — are reserved unto the states. And I absolutely support any intrusion and further erosion in violation of states’ rights. No doubt about that.
Posey’s “tenther” views found strong support among the crowd. Indeed, one of the questions posed to him from a town hall attendee wondered “how are any federal solutions to the health care problems constitutional?” (Posey responded that “there are some definite constituational questions.”)
Also, Florida state representative Ritch Workman (R) — one of the panelists who Posey invited to appear on-stage with him — elicited a standing ovation when he declared his support for HM 19, a bill that demands the federal government “adhere to and be constrained by the Tenth Amendment.” And outside the town hall venue, conservative activists were soliciting signatures in support of a “tenther” petition. Watch our video report:
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Posey and Congress don’t rule on Constitutionality. Our federal courts, topped by the Supreme Court, does.
Posey the poser…
September 4th, 2009 at 5:27 pmHM 19, a bill that demands the federal government “adhere to and be constrained by the Tenth Amendment.”
Redundant. Why specify the 10th? Doesn’t the federal gov’t have to adhere to the whole Constitution?
September 4th, 2009 at 5:31 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
.
Does Rep. Bill Posey (R-FL) pose that Medicare, is unconstitutional?
And let’s not get into Social Security…
… Because THAT deffinatly is NOT mentioned anywhere IN the original Constitution.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
It’s tedious when the unqualified draw academic conclusions they couldn’t bust out of a paper sack with:
“how are any post offices consitutional!?”
It’s beyond tedious to see a taxpayer-paid bigot scramble for fig leaves to cover his misanthropy:
“if you won’t prove you’re not a foreigner (and you are), then i don’t have to go by anything you say”
September 4th, 2009 at 5:36 pm.
But of course…
… Providing for the general welfare of the Nation doesn’t count? YES?
.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:38 pm3 -CG my friend, have you any particular examples of when it did? under whose governance?
or just the bitter insinuations of a sore loser?
September 4th, 2009 at 5:39 pmSo Medicare violates the 10th Amendment?
Mayhaps a quick college course in ConLaw would be in order for these bozoids.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:39 pm2 – exactly Bob – the whole notion is the plainest kind of stupid.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:40 pmIf you follow the 10th Amendment to the letter of the law, as the “tenthers” wish us to do, then all corporations lose all rights of so-called “citizenship” granted by screwed up riech-wing SCOTUS decisions for the last 100+ years.
I can go along with that part right now.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:41 pmconman,
When will the federal government actually follow the constitution?
You’re so late. You should have been asking Bush/Cheney that question. Especially Dickster about his not being part of the executive branchy thing.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:41 pmRUC,
September 4th, 2009 at 5:45 pmGive the dope a break…
… Some people are slooo-w-w-w learners.
Article I, Section 8, Clause I of the United States Constitution:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States
This needs to be tattooed on the forehead of every stinkin’ Tenther out there.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:50 pmOk Max, henceforth Sept 4th shall be known as givethedopeabreak day.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:50 pmKeep talking, Posey. You’ve got a party to bring down.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:50 pmTo the folks advocating the “tenthers”
May I suggest that you file your income taxes as a 10th amendment return (that is, you tell the IRS that they don’t have the power to collect an income tax) ?
Also, make sure to make it a 5th amendment return as the income tax form is requiring you to provide self-incriminating evidence ?
I hear the IRS is really jolly about these.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:50 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
How about adhere to the Bill of Rights? Or what about ‘only Congress can declare war’, so the war on terror was unconstitutional.
How are states providing for the general welfare of the Nation? This isn’t really a state’s rights issue. Congress can regulate commerce between the states, thus could reform health insurance.
Although health is powerful, it’s not really a power, is it? There is much more in the Constitution that supports gov’t involvement in health care than not. Congress certainly hasn’t been timid about the constitutionality of laws in the last decade or so, either. Take ‘retro-active immunity’ as just one example.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:59 pmIf a corporation is a citizen then it should get one vote, not millions of them thru one of our elected strumpets
September 4th, 2009 at 5:59 pmAAAHAHAH you’re right. When you have time to write a law that states you need to follow a law, you are overpaid.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:59 pmEvil? Stupid?
Decisions, decisions.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:00 pmWith all the silliness in US politics, I have come to the conclusion that the scandal with Berlusconi in Italy is far more entertaining.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:00 pmUnalienable rights should trump the tenth amendment.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:01 pmLife, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
An unaffordable or unattainable healthcare system is immoral.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
conman, When will the federal government actually follow the constitution? Rumpelerr [[Rumpelstiltskin]], where were you when Bush admitted, publically, illegal wiretapping [4th amend]]?
September 4th, 2009 at 6:02 pmRUC,
I mean, look at us. I spent 8 years just to graduate grade school and enter High School, were I then spent another 4 years learning. And then spent another 5 years in collage.
By my accounts, CONguy is in 5th grade.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:03 pmboy, Republicans are sicko. This is just pathetic. where did these freaks come from? good thing they’re being exposed for what they are. God help us if they take over the government ever again.
Is there a person left that isn’t totally ashamed of the Republican party? anywhere?
September 4th, 2009 at 6:06 pmShorter Conservo: I spent 5 years killing brain cells with my parents credit cards.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:08 pmThe South is rapidly becoming a looney bin. Perhaps we need to provide mental health services?
Either that, or they are so bought and sold by oil interests, tobacco interests, and the con men like Phillips who paid a $1.75 billion fine for defrauding Medicare (he has a lot of money from dumb people) that they just can’t resist being the morons that they always wanted to be, but were afraid of public disapproval.
Now, they just don’t care–they’re paid for!
September 4th, 2009 at 6:11 pmWhen his district is hit by a hurricane, and it will, FEMA should not send in any money, or out of state troops because that would violate the 10th Amendment by his logic.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:15 pmGod, these idiots piss me off.
When Bush/Cheney were torturing people, they didn’t have a single problem with that.
When Bush/Cheney were spying on Americans without a warrant in direct violation of the Fourth Amendment, they didn’t have a problem with that, either.
I think that what these bigoted morons are really trying to find in the Constitution is something that says that a black man can’t be president of Amurka.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:20 pmWhy aren’t people telling the “tenthers” that they are pulling the plug on grandma. After all, they are declaring Medicare unconstitutional and that is grandma’s insurance.
The double standard being applied by MSM is glaring and disgusting.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:22 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
.
83 Members Strong…
http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/uploads/CPC%20Co%20Chair%20Letter%20to%20President%20Obama%20Sept%2031.pdf
Urge your Congresscritter to become #84, #85, #86…
.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:26 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
O.B. to the T…
September 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pmoh campy,
campy, campy, campy…
are you going to be on michelle bachmann’s exploratory committee?
September 4th, 2009 at 6:34 pmCampesino,
Yep, art school. WITH a degree and debt to show for it, too.
Nothing says poor like an being an artist.
The nice thing about attending TWO different collages is that not only are you exposed to a divers array of ideas and opportunities to grow intellectually, Art school teaches you that at times, drawing outside the prescribed boundaries is about forcing others to confront their insecurities. That those prescribed lines were drawn to make people think they are within logical parameters.
Witness the G(no)P. Their thoughts and ideas are so constrained and refined, narrow and shallow, that they can’t figure out why they keep bumping their head on the bottom of the pool every time they dive into the fray.
p.s.
Glen Beck and (R)ush Limpballs are artists of a different sort.
CON artists, that is.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:34 pmArt school, huh?
September 4th, 2009 at 6:35 pm—
Little comprehension of culture I assume. Me multiple degrees in the sciences. Still you’ll find me in the art museum. What about you still confused by poetry?
I think that what these bigoted morons are really trying to find in the Constitution is something that says that a black man can’t be president of Amurka.
I believe the constitution originally said a black man could be 3/5ths of a president….until it was AMMENDED.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pmOh db,
I forgot…
… It’s Giveadopeabreak day.
Campesino just hates education.
One School, two or ten…
… It’s all about ridiculing an education.
I bet he thinks children should be barred from hearing their President tell them the virtues OF an education…
September 4th, 2009 at 6:50 pmOh, of course db…
September 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pm… It’s those DFH that go to “ART” school, YES?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKEZoY-TMG4
I read that Posey has supported national Tort Reform in the past. Here in Arizona Tort Reform is unconstitutional because our State Constitution states there will be no caps on awards in lawsuits.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:55 pmI wonder how Posey can claim something that would eviscerate AZ’s state’s rights is Constitutional under the 10th but the rest of health care reform is not?
Corporations are not citizens, or even people, they are not constitutional protections. Corporations have too much influence on public policy and the health care debate is dramatic proof.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:58 pmThese people are so totally idiotic & anti-U.S. it’s amazing they ever open their mouths. We can only surmise they have no idea how stupid, treasonous, & ignorant they sound. Just imagine– I’m sure we all have– if Democrats made these sorts of statements when Repubs were in power. Flashback: you couldn’t even criticize Bush without being labeled a “terrorist”, “treasonous”, “unpatriotic”, “hateful to troops”, etc. And that was just for criticizing him– not for calling him a Nazi, or Marxist, or Socialist, or “unconstitutional”, or “not a citizen”. And the facts are– Bush will always hide the fact he never served. Never. Family got him into university, family got him out of service. Bush was a fraud. Obama, who is truly trying to help America, is– of course– hated by Repubs. What does that tell us? & of course there’s that other thing that drives Repubs insane– Obama is not white. Repubs are sick racists.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:59 pmCampesino, you should know that when you’re dealing with liberals, they tend to go read links you provide and decide for themselves what those articles are saying. From the NYT article you site: “Several legal experts cautioned that the ruling had limited application, since it dealt narrowly with the carrying out of a law that had been superseded by new legislation. But the ruling is still the first by an appeals court that says the Fourth Amendment’s requirement for warrants does not apply to the foreign collection of intelligence involving Americans. That finding could have broad implications for United States national security law.”
As we learned last year, the Bush administration was NOT limiting it’s wiretaps to communications with other counties, but was also wiretapping American conversations. So, this ruling, by a secret appeals court no less, is irrelevant at this time.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:00 pmOh, and Campy?
I most definitely include you in the roll call of idiots.
Eat sh*t and die.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:00 pmdasm,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrNl6-j9×5w
Like that?
September 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pmIf the tenthers are to believed then what they are saying the Government cannot interfere with personal choice. This would mean laws restricting abortions, drug use, and child abuse would be unconstitutional, they should be careful what they wish for..besides hypocrisy.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:09 pmIf they want to take this to its logical conclusion, then Federal government would have almost no say over states at all… what we would we need congressmen for then?
If he truly believed that he should just resign too.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:10 pmGood point flounder,
Tort Laws are up to the individual States. Malpractice insurance Rates vary Widely in different regions of the country for this Reason.
Do these “State’s Rights” advocates really want to Federalize Tort Law? One size fits all?
These lawmakers need to be Pressed about their inconsistant position.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:12 pmMy favorite part about the “Tenther Movement” is that they think Social Security, Medicare and the GI Bill are unconstitutional. Every senior citizen in every Tenther’s district should hear that their Repub rep thinks they shouldn’t be getting Social Security and Medicare.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:22 pmPosey (R-confusion) sez Yeah, I really do. There is nothing — the 10th Amendment he talked about says that all power is not delegated to the United States government — are reserved unto the states. And I absolutely support any intrusion and further erosion in violation of states’ rights. No doubt about that
What the Frack? Has anyone tried to decipher this stream of crap? The 10th does not delegate everything not given to the Federal government to the states – it explicitly gives it to the states AND the people, but does not provide anything like a precise division of powers or enumeration (so-called).
He supports intrusion in state’s rights? Or does he support intrusion in erosion of state’s rights? I don’t like any of this state’s rights crap, anyway; it’s usually an excuse for dictatorial and brutal conduct against citizens at the state and local level.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:30 pmBadger says:
Tort Laws are up to the individual States. Malpractice insurance Rates vary Widely in different regions of the country for this Reason.
Do these “State’s Rights” advocates really want to Federalize Tort Law? One size fits all?
The answer is yes, they want to federalize some tort law. Malpractice is just the foot in the door. The next area would be products liability. Once you start limiting that, the manufacturers have no incentive to make safe products.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:34 pmOT … a follow up from this morning…
boy, was i ever wrong about my impression of my local school’s policy about the president’s speech to students… when i called back to find out how many more CON names were added to the list, the lady (not so pleasant this time) read the statement again, and it seems my district is one in illinois that will NOT be showing the president’s message on tuesday… it will be up to the individual teacher to schedule a showing, along with a lesson plan, before being allowed to do so…
lot of misinformed racist idjits around here… i’m not surprised…
September 4th, 2009 at 7:37 pmGO HERE to tell Rep. Hosey…uh, Posey that he can move away from the United States of America at anytime and take his little bit of insanity with him,
http://posey.house.gov/Contact/
September 4th, 2009 at 7:41 pmGive it time, he’ll be jumping onto the next weird conservative group’s bang wagon.
Care to name which one next?
September 4th, 2009 at 7:43 pmWhat a whack job.
September 4th, 2009 at 8:26 pmposted again:
a must see clip if you have not yet:
Billionaires for Wealthcare
September 4th, 2009 at 9:46 pmBither, Tenther what’s next? The nuts need to accept the fact they LOST. Never, ever have I seen such immature attitudes. When you side loses accept defeat but not these crazies.
How about new terms to describe them—beckers, limbaughers, weiners, OR just plain nutters.
September 4th, 2009 at 10:01 pmThese fools will next look for a hidden loophole in the Constitution on how to pass Constitutional amendments with a plurality of votes.
Or they’ll try to raise the lost ships from World War II and the Spanish armada to sail on our shores, which they will rename Mordor, to take down Barack Wormtongue…the Steward of the rightful GOP throne.
September 4th, 2009 at 10:48 pmaquarius2 says:
Bither, Tenther what’s next? The nuts need to accept the fact they LOST. Never, ever have I seen such immature attitudes. When you side loses accept defeat but not these crazies.
And why are these morbidly ugly pigs being listened to? There are reports that in some communities parents may opt out of letting their children listen to Obama’s speech Tues. I am not believing this. JF Kennedy spoke to the students regarding fitness, Bush I and II also spoke with the students…. I don’t recall a form where parents could opt out of listening to the president. Now, Obama is going to give the text of his speech to the schools in advance for approval. Won’t this show kids not allowed to watch Obama’s speech are from racist homes? It is just that simple. you have to wonder what will be next.
September 4th, 2009 at 11:16 pmI know it’s already been posted in this thread, but I kinda feel it can’t be posted quite enough:
So basically, Congress gets to pass laws to start programs that will help the general welfare (i.e. overall public interest) of the U.S. That includes health care, social security, medicare, and whatever else they think there’s a significan public interest in. That’s a power they have. Says so right there, in the Constitution.
Now, let’s look at the 10th Amendment:
The 10th Amendment is completely and utterly irrelevant to any power that is in the Constitution, including Article 1 Section 8.
Admittedly, that secion allows them to do quite a lot. It’s pretty open-ended. So who decides what its limits are?
So it doesn’t matter what a tenther thinks or even what I think. All that matters, according to the Constitution, is what the SCOTUS thinks. And they have a very long record of rulings on exactly this issue, all of which side with the common interpretation and against the tenthers.
To believe that the SCOTUS’ rulings should somehow be ignored or overthrown would itself be a direct violation of the very same Constitution that these “tenthers” claim to defend.
But the simple fact is that the wingnuts know they’re wrong. They just don’t care. If they make a lot of noise and attract some stupid and/or ignorant people to make noise with them, it might cause a larger number of uninformed people to fail to support any measures that would improve the situation of the U.S.A.
This is because wingnuts are nothing less than a cabal of traitors who are out to destroy the U.S.A. They have already trashed our economy and foreign reputation while in power, and now they are doing everything they can to prevent us from getting back on our feet.
September 5th, 2009 at 2:37 amconservaTROLL
When will morons like you have some dim idea what the constitution says. Here is a hing. Rush telling you what is in it wont cut it ya ignorant piece of garbage
September 5th, 2009 at 3:17 amCampesino 17
No it wouldnt you are a liar and a fool
September 5th, 2009 at 3:19 amCampesino 17
No it wouldnt you are a liar and a fool
September 5th, 2009 at 3:19 amCampesino 17
No it wouldnt you are a liar and a fool
September 5th, 2009 at 3:19 amCampesino 17
No it wouldnt you are a liar and a fool
September 5th, 2009 at 3:20 amCampesino says:
You are an ignorany brainwashed piece of garbage. Just STFU until you grow enough of a brain to actually contribute to an adult conversation
September 5th, 2009 at 3:21 amYou would think it would be political suicide for a politician in Florida to take a position that would destroy Medicare and Social Security. Maybe someone should run an ad pointing that out . . .
September 5th, 2009 at 8:24 amIt’s tedious when the unqualified draw academic conclusions they couldn’t bust out of a paper sack with:
September 5th, 2009 at 11:28 amkaty says:
it seems my district is one in illinois that will NOT be showing the president’s message on tuesday… it will be up to the individual teacher to schedule a showing, along with a lesson plan, before being allowed to do so…
You really should organize a boycott of the school for the day of the speech and let the school district know what you are doing. If you keep your child out of school for a day, the school loses money. If enough parents join in the protest, I’m thinking the school district will change its tune in a hurry.
September 5th, 2009 at 11:29 amThe right is celebrating the Birth of the Birthers now with the Speechers, protesting President Obama’s coming television address to school children. And white racist parents are hysterical. Funny, not a peep out of them when Reagan, Bush I and Bush 2 addressed school children…
Fast evolution of white racist hysterics since January 2009: birthers, teabaggers (on April 15, after practically all received a tax cut, but never mind…), deathers, screamers, tenthers and now speechers. Evolution is a fact; at least for the reactions of white racists to having our first black President…
September 5th, 2009 at 12:20 pmWhere were these tenthers during the Bork confirmation? Nothing but intellectual dishonesty from this lot.
September 5th, 2009 at 12:29 pmFor the tenthers who think that they can better manage anything better than the US GOV…we need to point out a few facts:
1. STATE Budgets that are facing shortages (from CBPP) http://www.cbpp.org/files/9-8-08sfp.pdf:
2. Second largest state (TX) and their failed Health Care System:
http://propublica.lyris.net/t/10068/7853/763/0/
What are the tenther solutions to these problems? After all, the US GOV cannot be called to “bail them out” of their own financial nightmares…so what are they going to do?
We need to do more than explain something as complicated as the US Constitution…as they seem unable to comprehend that document…give them the currently known problems and demand solutions!
September 5th, 2009 at 2:09 pmThe visual demographics of the attendees says a great deal, they all look just like rep. Posey and they only talk to each other.
September 6th, 2009 at 10:29 amWith all this “tenther” and “birther” stuff, why are you ignoring the “Truther” working at the White House???
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/controversial-obama-administration-official-denies-being-part-of-911-truther-movement-apologizes-for.html
Controversial Obama Administration Official Denies Being Part of 9/11 “Truther” Movement, Apologizes for Past Comments*
A top environmental official of the Obama administration issued a statement Thursday apologizing for past incendiary statement and denying that he ever agreed with a 2004 petition on which his name appears, a petition calling for congressional hearings and an investigation by the New York Attorney General into “evidence that suggests high-level government officials may have deliberately allowed the September 11th attacks to occur.”
Van Jones, the Special Advisor for Green Jobs at the White House Council on Environmental Quality, is Number 46 of the petitioners from the so-called “Truther” movement which suggests that people in the administration of President George W. Bush “may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.”
===========================================================
Oh my goodness, he just resigned
September 6th, 2009 at 11:29 amLast night, at a restaurant, I looked around and noticed at least 75% of the people in this crowded place were in poor physical condition. Too fat. Big belly. Fat legs. Blubber arms. 3 chins. Smoking cigs outside. Drinking booze. Eating big sugary desserts. My first thought was, everyone needs to pay for their own health care insurance. Why should I pay for their health care? They don’t seem to care at all about their health. Why should they pay for my health care? We need incentives for those that live a healthy lifestyle. Those that don’t care about what they eat and are in lousy physical condition due to their lifestyle need to pay more for health insurance. No different than a poor car driver pays more for car insurance. Same theory.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:50 pmkwsventures says:
It is amazing how proud you are of these stupid posts you make. I mean they are so ignorant anyone with the sense God gave a garden slug would be ashamed of them but you just keep posting them in multiple threads to be SURE everyone is fully aware just how stupid and pathetic you are.
September 7th, 2009 at 8:41 pm