Giuliani: Without tort reform, health care can only save money by ‘pulling the plug on grandma.’
Giuliani: Without tort reform, health care can only save money by ‘pulling the plug on grandma.’
Last month, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani endorsed former Alaska governor Sarah Palin’s ridiculous claims about “death panels” in health care reform, saying that “whether they will do that or not I don’t know. … People assume these death panels will be created.” On NBC’s Meet The Press today, Giuliani continued to give credence to the idea, saying that because Democratic health care reform proposals don’t include medical malpractice reform or “interstate purchase of insurance,” it became “impossible for most Republicans to figure out how you’re going to save the money other than pulling the plug on grandma.” Watch it:
Giuliani regularly claims that President Obama never put medical malpractice reform “on the table,” but as ThinkProgress has previously noted, this is simply not true. In May, Time reported that Obama told Republicans that he was willing to negotiate on curbing malpractice awards, but the Republicans were unwilling to make a deal.
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When is the last time Rudy was right about anything and why on earth are people still listening to him as if he has anything meaningful to say?
The guy is a huckster, a crook, a fascist, a political opportunist and a congenital liar.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:22 pmWhy do republicans always talk about tort reform as being the magic bullet for fixing health care costs, while ignoring the fact the insurance premiums seem to shoot up every time the stock market dives. How about making health care insurance non-profit, and keeping the money out of the stock market?
September 6th, 2009 at 1:24 pmRepublicans are good at naming things to scare people. Death panels, and death tax for inheritance tax are good examples. We should call the tort reform: “Republican malpractice protection”.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:25 pmHow come grandpa gets no respect? Is it that his prostate cancer took him out long before grandma ended up being kept alive by that socialist rural electricification?
September 6th, 2009 at 1:25 pmRude Julia Annie’s own children want nothing to do with him. That says it all.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:26 pmTort tort tort 95% of all malpractice cases are caused by 5% of the doctors. Try actual winning a case of friend of mine went 10 years to the same doctor getting an examination 10 PSA tests later they find advanced prostate cancer He was devastated. He had had cancer for years and the doctor was a rube My fried lost a case against him
September 6th, 2009 at 1:35 pm.
… And to keep profits high currently, Insurance Companies are denying care to grandma’s grandson. Care that can him alive.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:41 pmTort reform is a red herring. it doesn’t work to lower costs to consumers.
It’s just another example of right-wingers placing a higher priority on their pre-conceived notions than on evidence-based solutions to problems.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:42 pmAren’t medical malpractice awards only about 2% of all the money spent on health care? Lowering medical malpractice awards (thus removing any incentive to actually be good at being a doctor) will not lower health care costs, it will only increase the profits of the insurance companies. And it’s not like the insurance companies aren’t making huge profits because they have to pay out a few claims. They are making LOTS of money, even with medical malpractice awards being what they are. The only thing hurt by these awards are their profits and the size of the bonuses they want to give their do-nothing executives.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:43 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
When people hang on to a reality that exists ONLY in their mind…
… Then society calls them CRAZY.
NO?
.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:44 pm“impossible for Republicans to figure out…”
’bout say it all, doesn’t it?
September 6th, 2009 at 1:46 pmSadly, this schmuck will be elected governor of NY if Cuomo doesn’t challenge Paterson in the Dem primary.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:47 pmSo, pulling the “plug” is the Republican solution?
.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:48 pmLast month, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani endorsed former Alaska governor Sarah Palin’s ridiculous claims about “death panels” in health care reform, saying that “whether they will do that or not I don’t know. … People assume these death panels will be created.”
So the fact that people are misinformed should have nothing to do with whether a false talking point drives the debate, Mr. Mayor?
Wouldn’t it have been prudent to do a little research into “whether they will do that or not” if you were planning to speak about the issue in public? Why is ignorance an acceptable excuse for not correcting a blatant lie?
September 6th, 2009 at 1:48 pmI did not vote for Bush in 2000 or in 2004, but after the run-up to the Iraq mess perpertrated by the repiggies, I made a vow to myself to not vote for any repiggies, even for local office for the next few years.
After seeing the shenanigans, the lies and the appalling behavior fostered and encouraged by the repiggies, they will never get my vote for anything.
I am so sick of these brazen crooks, liars and looney trash passing themselves off as even remotely interested in the well-being of this nation.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:49 pmMay I suggest that someone ‘pull the plug’ on Giuliani? That is to say, can media bookers simply stop genuflecting to this character and engage others in an informed and meaningful conversation?
His ‘fifteen minutes of fame’ were up a very long time ago…
September 6th, 2009 at 1:51 pmThis makes perfect sense to me; “Giuliani continued to give credence to the idea, saying that because Democratic health care reform proposals don’t include medical malpractice reform or “interstate purchase of insurance,” it became “impossible for most Republicans to figure out how you’re going to save the money other than pulling the plug on grandma.” ”
I must admit though that it kind of puts a king-hell hole in the old notion that Rs are better “managers” than Ds. If a pack of managers and politicians can’t figure out how to improve a process or processes without throwing gramma under the gurney, they ought to be fired. Since the Rs have already been fired, they should stay that way.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:52 pm“Tort Reform” is BS, and yet alleged liberals like Obama and Kerry can frequently be found agreeing with Republicans on this issue.
95 percent of medical malpractice is caused by 5 percent of doctors. When the medical profession and the criminal justice system hold them accountable, and when health insurance covers all the conditions that a patient suffers as a result of malpractice, then maybe I’ll listen to arguments for “tort reform.” Until then, screw those guys.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:53 pmAnd while I think of it, the notion that Republicans would support health care reform if only the Democrats gave them tort reform is ludicrous. Republicans have gotten over 160 of their amendments added to the Senate’s health care bill, and yet none of them support the bill. In addition, McConnell, Kyl, Coburn, Gregg, Grassley, Enzi, Inhofe, Boehner, and Cantor have made made clear that Republicans are going to vote no on any health care reform, no matter what the bill contains. Since they don’t bargain in good faith, Democrats should cut them loose and do what WE want. I say again, when it comes to obstructionist Republicans, screw those guys.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:57 pmTort reform is a STATE issue. Medical malpractice cases are adjudicated in STATE courts.
Tell anyone who brings up tort reform to contact their STATE representive to push a bill for tort reform in their STATE legislature.
If tort reform were to be even mention in any Health Reform bill, the R’s and C’s would start screaming “STATES RIGHTS!“, “FEDERAL INTERFERENCE IN STATE COURTS!”
Sorry wingnuts, you can’t have it both ways.
September 6th, 2009 at 1:57 pmI’m the Tort Reformer of Earl, and you can be my Tortess…
September 6th, 2009 at 1:59 pmSpeaking as someone who’s been to court on a health/insurance issue. Let me tell you firsthand the SYSTEM IS RIGGED!
I just read a whistleblower was awarded $51,000,000. Holy shi* what’s up with that? Really – a little too execesive don’t you think?
Try going to court for a health issue and getting 10 bucks. See what you end up with.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:02 pmoh noes! We can’t have tort reform. What will happen to the malpractice insurance companies! Lost jobs and profits! /snark
September 6th, 2009 at 2:03 pmGiuliani must be invited on these shows just to aggravate Democrats. He adds nothing but meaningless rhetoric, distortions fo fact and self-indulgent conceit.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:06 pmNo offense, but isn’t Rudy, like, so yesterday? His claim to his dubious fame, is his role on 911. Now he basically rode that one triumph into the ground by trying to capitalize it at every turn. The man is a ghoul.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:08 pmRepugnicans always talk “tort reform” when debating health care because that keeps the insurance guys profits in tact, when in fact, tort reporm accounts for a very smal lpercentage of health care costs.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:10 pmSpecialists are always complaining about their insurance costs, but it is the premiums charged by the companies for the few cases that they actually pay — it is all about disguising insuranc ecompany profits.
It is a national disgrace that health care of Americans is dependent upon a corporation’s bottom line – health care is a profit-making industry, and we are the widgets.
Republicans seem to want to protect incompetent doctors. They want to protect insurance companies that deny benefits. They want to protect torturers from justice. They want to protect polluters from responsiblity for their mess. They want to eliminate all social programs. They want to protect Wall Street from regulation. On the other hand they want to stop women from controlling their bodies. They want to stop gays from marriage. They want to stop economic recovery. They want public schools to teach their religion to your children and they want you to pay for that priviledge. The list is nearly endless.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:11 pmWith comprehensive health coverage for all, the need for tort reform disappears. The huge court awards are for punitive damages. You can’t get punitive damages without compensatory damages. If your health care needs are already covered, there’s no need for compsenatory damages, so you can’t get punitive damages. Therefore, health care reform IS tort reform.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:17 pmThe world would be much better off if MSM would pull the plug on Rudy. Think of the money and headaches we could save.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:17 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The Republicans want all sorts of concessions before they negotiate. That is a big mistake on the part of the Dems. They should have started crafting a bill without Republican input or negotiations. This should have been finished before the summer recess and the Dems should have been able to take a concrete plan back to their constituents. All of this ambiguity on health care is what is creating problems with the voters.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:18 pmMSM strikes again. By bringing Rudy on ??? Can’t they find anyone else besides a washed up pol?) getting his expert analysis on crap. They have sunk to a new low. Remember when Bush was in office? MSM ALWAYS had footage of Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. And now Obama is in, they take the time usually slotted for ‘Entertainment’, and spend it bashing the Pres. How many polls can they do? I remember when Bush was in, and polls were few and furhter between. What a crock. And have you noticed that MSM barely mentioned the Katrina Anniversary? But you better bet MSM will go on and on with tributes on 911. Sigh.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:19 pm… costs that even the most generous estimates peg as no more than 2% of all costs.
Plus real-world case histories have showed that when damage caps are put in place, as Texas did in 2002, insurance company profits rise but the (minimal) cost savings are not passed on the the consumer, and premiums continue to rise.
It’s a crock of shit, Timmeh, that you have willingly swallowed after corporate defenders told you it was chocolate ice cream.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:21 pmThe first thing out of Obama’s mouth when he gives his speech to Congress this week should be something like: I tried to negotiate in good faith but the Republicans have not, therefore I propose this…, all Democrats will go along with this proposal, if they do not, they will get no support from the Democratic Party, and they can do whatever they like. If we cannot count on you for the most important reform in this generation, we don’t need you. If on the other hand you come along, we will support you, and I will support you. There are no other options. As for the Republicans, you get nothing further from this administration, don’t bother to call. Your lies and hate has made you as unwelcome.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:21 pmA short study in stupid. guess tim thinks the insurance companies are a cottage industry.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Not Grandma! Nnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooo!
September 6th, 2009 at 2:25 pmRudy and the truth have never met. Doubt they ever will
And it scares the heck out of me that he has a chance to become our next governor.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:26 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Timmeh thinks struggling to get all Americans access to health care is “attacking patients”.
Timmeh is quite stupid, in case anyone hadn’t realized that already.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:30 pmTimmeh, the same cannot be said of you, since you started with none.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:31 pmIt is time to find the meme that will damage these liars.
I wish I knew what it was, but we’ve got to paint these men as who they are.
They’re selling grandma for power, influence, and campaign cash. It’s morally repugnant.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:31 pmIf you pay attention and focus I will try.
You said:
Then without taking a breath you claim that he has no problem attacking the insurance industry:
Now, I don’t know where you live, and by that I mean what planet so maybe where you live the insurance industry is not one of the biggest business’s on the planet. Where I live it is.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:33 pmAs a resident of Minnesota, I’ve seen this tactic used to great benefit for republicans for 5 years or more. Tim Pawlenty is a master at getting the Dems to water down bills, then he vetoes them anyway.
The national party is playing the Congressional Dems and Obama the same way. Time to go my-way-or-highway. The R’s did it for 6 years under Bush.
Get to it, people!
September 6th, 2009 at 2:34 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
tim, and there is that bit of bizzare logic that Ralph pointed out.
I guess that if you think being stupid and being a racist are the same thing that it might be ok to call you a racist.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:36 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Beethoven Rules
wow, a bush defender. You don’t see many of those critters anymore. Wonder why?
September 6th, 2009 at 2:38 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
@44, Oh please. Obama inhereted a lot of this mess. And where were the ‘Tea-Baggers’ when Bush was sending this country into debt? Bush sat on his ass the last couple of months of his Presidency, just biding time til he could get the Hell out of the White House. Jeez!
September 6th, 2009 at 2:38 pmTim43, a right wing website that posts made up people saying things is not new or any more credible than it ever was.
It just makes you look stupid.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:40 pmkwsventures, it’s out of your hands. Relax.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:42 pmThanks for weighing in, Rudy, ya’ jerk. Just who we need to hear from, a liar and adulterer.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:45 pmit seems a couple of trolls have discovered it is a quiet weekend so they can come out and play without worry.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:47 pmkwsventures, You make a point. But don’t you think insuring young people would be wise? Preventive care would be ideal to get people to lead to healthier life style chioces. Double edged sword, No?
September 6th, 2009 at 2:47 pmI think kws just likes feeling superior and gets a kick out of watching people fail. Wonder where he learned that?
September 6th, 2009 at 2:49 pmRudy Giuliani–the fella who parades around in a dress?!?
I really don’t care what he does in his free time, but can anyone really take this yo-yo seriously?
I sure don’t.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:49 pmIf George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt
again within 10 years, would you have approved?
I really like this one. GW wasn’t much for proposing, he just went ahead and did things.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:51 pmHood@55, Yeah. The trolls are out in full force.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:51 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
How can you tell when the anniversary of nine eleven is?
(R)udy’s being paraded on T.V.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:51 pm@57, Yeah! Good ole Georgie Boy was a Hell of a ‘Decider’ (Snark!)
September 6th, 2009 at 2:52 pmIf George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you have approved?
A kiss is as good as a smile.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:53 pmHooda,
September 6th, 2009 at 2:55 pmSeems to me, mental illness is what is at play…
… Isn’t it the truly deranged that enjoy seeing people fail?
kwsventures reminds me of the John Kenneth Galbraith quote:
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
It doesn’t matter to him whether or not universal health coverage would benefit the nation by lowering costs and improving the ability of individuals to take care of themselves; he’s only concerned with HIS tax dollars going to support health care for fat people.
Not part of his consideration are those who are struck with diseases beyond their control — leukemia, ALS, CP, Epstein-Barr, whatever… who face the choice of having their condition treated and going bankrupt or living with an untreated condition that will gradually reduce their ability to contribute (and thus render them, in kwsventures’ eyes, even LESS deserving of coverage).
Nope. All kwsventures has to do is go to his local Hometown Buffet, judge all the fat people there are morally weak and inferior to himself, and walk away feeling contented that he’s helping preserve the profits of health insurance companies.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:56 pmSnowman says:
It is time to find the meme that will damage these liars…
I’ve said this before, and I got it from an old judge who was a democrat.
“(Fact is) that a republican would sell his grandma’s a** on the street for a nickel if he thought it would make a profit.”
And we’ve already seen this–with all the ‘gramma-death-panel’ stuff.
That is all.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:56 pm#44 Beethoven — the last of a dying breed. Bush defenders.
He tries to assign similar complaints to Obama and he fails.
(gee, just like Bush did – Beethoven tries to assign everything wrong to the Democrats — monkey see monkey do.)
Bush always used a teleprompter because he cannot speak in coherent sentences – just recall his press conferences.
I wonder how much it cost Americans for him to fly to Crawford hundreds of times in 8 years – the president who took the most time off from work in history.
I have a retort to every one of the false assertions and comparisons at #44, but it would be a waste of bandwidth to type them – #44 won’t read them, and the rest of us already know them.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:56 pm@61, Watching Bush hold hands with with the King (Or was he Prince?) made me want to gag. But the Rightires don’t want to talk about that. They would rather forget about that.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:57 pm#57 Hooda,
September 6th, 2009 at 2:57 pmLike they said something the FIRST trillion?
Obama can settled this whole mess with two sentences on Wed night.
I urge the Republicans in Congress to work toward a manageable solution to Healthcare reform which includes a robust public option, and pass it by the end of October, or the Democrats will pass through reconsiliation a single payor for all healthcare bill, HR676
http://www.hr676.org
Simple, and shoves the onous to cooperate back on the Repubs who will do nothing but osfuscate and confuse, and we win.
Bringing the REthugnikkkans to any negotiating table makes them have to actually do some thinking and makes them seem civilized for the time they are in the room. It really does the country no justice to allow these crazed traitors to be depicted as anything other than what they are. Unadulterated racisits and traitors. Even the Speech to the school children. They are treating the Black man in office as if he needs to ASK the parents permission to talk to the kids.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:58 pmHey F UCK YOU PARENTS, it is called “In loco Parentis” you jackoffs, so sit the f uck down and shut the f uck up and maybe you will learn something that will help you to move out of your trailer park. F ucking treasonous fools.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
#48 kwsventures
September 6th, 2009 at 2:58 pmThe indulgent people you criticize in your restaurant experience are not the ones in need of health care — they are the ones refusing it to others who are at home wondering if there is enough food for supper.
Max, if profit uber alles is not a clinical definition of OCD then I guess the Mets are going to win the Super Bowl.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pm@65, Don’t forget the ‘Internets’. To this day, I STILL can’t believe Kerry lost to Georgie Boy. (Although, people are still debating that. Thank’s Ohio!)
September 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pmIsn’t it nice to know that there is a place you fit right in?
.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pmP.D.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:00 pmNo, thanks to Ken Blackwell and assoc.
kws, since you insist on calling attention to the sad state of health in the general public these days, might you also keep in mind that this is a time after over 50 years of health care for profit?
If a company wants to make money from sick people, why would they encourage them to a healthier lifestyle?
September 6th, 2009 at 3:01 pm#69
September 6th, 2009 at 3:02 pmFrom your smug perspective, it must be hard to deal with humanity on a daily basis.
kws@69, Jeez. Are you always this judgmental? Or do hate overwieght people? I believe we should help ALL Americans regardless of their race, age, wieght of physical infirmities. It’s called COMPASSION. Maybe you should try it once in a while.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:03 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Those people are the ones that have health care.
Next!
September 6th, 2009 at 3:04 pmWhy doesn’t the Dem leadership explain clearly where the savings come from then?
My understanding is that it is primarily in the ways that doctors are to be reimbursed, drug coverage, and eliminating wasteful procedures in the system.
But they’re left themselves open to these ridiculous attacks by not being more clear on where the reform will help save costs.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:05 pmI have one question for you:
If by some miracle, G W Bush had left a budget surplus for Obama to work with, and Obama deficit-spent America into the enormous debt that Bush did with
Clinton’s surplus, wouldn’t you be squealing like a stuck pig?
Did you even care that Bush was borrowing the US into debt?
September 6th, 2009 at 3:05 pmkwsventures
HATE HATE HATE
September 6th, 2009 at 3:06 pm#69, kwsventures
You make the MORAL argument as to WHY the public needs afforded BETTER and more AFFORDABLE health care options. Options that will lead them to healthier choices, diets and counseling.
Yet you sell us that these people deserve less.
Please parse it for us.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:07 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Liberty@81, Yeah, That’s why the whole ‘Tea-Bag’ movement was a joke. These people had no qualms about Bush sending us into debt but now a Democratic, BLACK President to blame! Give me a break.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:08 pmWe are at a time of moral turpitude.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:08 pmJust keep hanging these vile statements around their necks and they will sink from their own statements.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/turpitude
oooo, I got a troll to go bold in a comment.
kws, while you are feeling superior, why don’t you ask yourself why so many fast food and restaurant franchises have suddenly decided that their game of promoting unhealthy food for the past few decades might be a bad idea?
Big Macs for mega profits are giving way to salads and yogurt. What’s up with that?
September 6th, 2009 at 3:09 pm#86, DC
vote up X10
.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:10 pmHooda,
Bold is nothing.
WAIT FOR THE all caps.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:11 pmkws@84, Oh knock it off! What about that poor woman in the wheelchair who got heckled? Do you feel she shouldn’t have Health Care? My husband and I shell out over $700 a month for Health Care and the SOBs won’t even pay for physicals. WTF is wrong with these people? Have you no compassion or shame? This is a disgrace.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:11 pmkws knows nothing of compassion. as he states:
“I wouldn’t care at all what kind of lifestyle they lead if they pay for their own health care. Why should I pay for their lousy lifestyle that increases the odds of health problems. And if the roles were reversed, I would be embarrassed to have others pay for my poor lifestyle.”
No one is paying for your lifestyle of being out in the restarant. Why were you there, and what did you eat? So, it would be OK for the CORPORATECARE officer to tell you what is OK to eat, but having a stake in the public commons of healthcare, you feel it is no interest for you to care for your neighbor? Hmmm, and just how do you rationalize that with your suppsoed Christly upbringing? Hmm?
September 6th, 2009 at 3:12 pmI really want to know where it was the Christ says for you to not give a rats ass about your fellow man.
Get off your high horse, kws and see that a major reason we are in such pathetic shape is because big business saw a profit in it. They encouraged gimme, gimme, I want and now America is slowly realizing that only benefits the few.
I’m guessing you aren’t one of them but you sure wish you were.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:15 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
mk3872,
Well…
… Reducing the 30% skimmed off the top of reimbursements to the Insurance industry is a start. In fact, such a start, THAT in itself, pays for the program from the start. Of course, H.R. 676 makes it plain. But no MSM “Librul” media is ever gonna tell us this.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:15 pm@17, I wrote something about the failure to have a grasp of process improvement on the part of managers and politicians. Tort reform is NOT process improvement.
The only kind of tort reform that makes sense is tort reform in favor of the consumer, not tort reform that favors either practitioners or insurance companies. The insurance companies can take care of themselves in this regard, but there needs to be some sort of mechanism for accountability and quality assurance among practioners and tort law may work as well as anything else.
Being a tad cynical about this sort of thing, it may be the malpractice insurance companies that are pushing for tort reform. Reducing tort claims would push their profit margins up, especially if they don’t reduce their premiums.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:19 pmJoke of the day!!
September 6th, 2009 at 3:19 pmOne sentnece for ya kws.
High Fructose Corn Syrup.
We have no say in its widespread adoption within the corporate structure of food production, and yet now it is shown to be responsible for Obesity. How smoking, Nope no corporation liability there I guess too, right?
Go ask someone where you can go to buy a clue as to where to find the rest of 99.99999999% of the real information not provided by FOX snooze. Remember FOX is for Friends Of Xenophobes.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:20 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
.
Dear kwsventures,
Obviously there are some Americans who do not deserve affordable health care…
… Listening to you, I can safely assume so.
OTHERWISE, you would be arguing FOR affordable options that are not out there right now. Options, like a Federally funded program that, Oops, “COMPETES” with private “PROFIT for PAIN” health Insurance scheme we currently are saddled with.
So, which Americans DO NOT deserve affordable health care?
… The fat and lazy slobs YOU went and ate a fat lazy meal with?
.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:20 pmkwsventures says:
All of your points are red herrings. They do not represent the status of health care in the US. There are middle class people who can no longer afford health insurance even from their employer. Families are pay hundreds of dollars a month in premiums. Your points have nothing to do with the average middle class family. Citing the egregious examples are easily dismissed because they are not the norm.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:20 pmHome inspections? kws is the Dale Gribble of Florida.
Found this:
http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_f28lx
September 6th, 2009 at 3:21 pm“Have you no personal responsibility?”
If you check the behavior of the Party of Personal Responsibility, you will find the answer they have encouraged and stand by.
You know, your talking point masters.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:21 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
95. Sorry, I wasn’t clear on that. While tort law may work well for accountability and quality assurance, it’s a last ditch method – it’s after the fact, while what everyone wants, including most practitioners, is for the process or procedure to go right in the first place.
So, for improving health care delivery and outcomes, the process improvement should take place in the delivery system, and in getting people to work on their own health before they ever see a practitioner.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:24 pmYou already said that, kws
September 6th, 2009 at 3:25 pmHere is tort reform.
Since the voerwhelming VAST majority of civil lawsuits is brought about by corporations,
DO NOT ALLOW CORPORATIONS TO BRING LAWSUITS.
Period. There is my tort reform. The Constitution never mentions corporations so they do not enjoy the benfit of the 3rd branch of the Government.
Very simple actually.
ALso, the Constittuion never mentions an economic construct so I am unsure what all the constructionists are mumbling about by saying that this is a capitalistic nation. No mention of money outside of the Government can collect taxes. Hmm, interesting, it must not have been that important.
And there is that Gawd thing. Was GAWD invented after the passage of the Constitution? I see no mention of a GAWD, did they not know about a gawd back then? If was supposedly so important, then whey didn’t they include the word gawd or god in the Constitution? Hmm, interesting, it must not have been that important.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:25 pmIrrelevant Giuliani on a another talk show….wait, was McGrampa unavailable to praise Sarah yet again?
September 6th, 2009 at 3:25 pmkwsventures, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:25 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
kws, what part of out and I’m leaving didn’t you understand?
We all got it and are still hoping.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:27 pmkws meumbles as he says he is leaving the scene:
“I will be looking for a cookie tree. Out.”
Look up Limpbaugh’s or Beck’s ass, from where you pull the other crappy talking points you spew. Jackoff.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:27 pmWhere is your authority to call bs on this statement? Just because it’s what you want to believe? Sad little fella.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:27 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
You just can’t argue with that kind of “logic” but, for the benefit of the non-trolls, let’s be clear about one thing.
You are not going to be forced to pay for the health insurance of others. You will pay for yours. Fat people will pay for theirs. Poor people will pay as much as they can for theirs and, as the bills are written so far, your cost will go down.
I find it amusing how the trolls can manage such venom against something that will save them money and assure that their insurance will remain in place when they make a claim. Once again, it seems that the trolls have been committed to the opposite of the truth.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:28 pmkwsventures, I don’t eat donuts asswipe. More of your lumping people together, to make the sorry case you keep trying to make.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:28 pmBumper sticker
September 6th, 2009 at 3:30 pmGot Moral Turpitude?
Evidently personal responsibility doesn’t equate to following up on one’s statement they are leaving.
I guess we just have to keep poking fun.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:30 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
#115,
September 6th, 2009 at 3:31 pmEspecially your’s?
Who forces miners to work under conditions that cause them to contract black lung?
Who forces welders to inhale the toxic smoke that results from that procedure?
Who kws?
September 6th, 2009 at 3:31 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
blue state bob says:
Rudy and the truth have never met. Doubt they ever will
And it scares the heck out of me that he has a chance to become our next governor.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Bob, ya think so? I have a feeling that most of our fellow NYers have as little use for Rudy as you and I do.
Hoodathunk says:
Max, if profit uber alles is not a clinical definition of OCD then I guess the Mets are going to win the Super Bowl.
September 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Maybe if they were playing the Jets? ;)
September 6th, 2009 at 3:33 pmSee Bill Clinton on the national debt. Sucks to be a loser doesn’t it kws? How can you live with the shame?
September 6th, 2009 at 3:33 pm.
Hey everyone…
… kwsventures IS A LIAR.
You know how I know? He said he’d leave, yet can’t even keep that promise.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:34 pmkwsventures, evidently a conservative who doesn’t believe in government solutions, somehow wants to force Americans into a “healthy lifestyle.” How shall we accomplish this glorious task, comrade?
September 6th, 2009 at 3:34 pmkws isn’t a very good troll. He thinks BS is BS.
Obviously he hasn’t read the handout from Troll Central on doublespeak.
Up is down
Right is Wrong
Truth is Lies
Leaving is Staying
Oh, wait he did get that last one right
September 6th, 2009 at 3:35 pmJane,
September 6th, 2009 at 3:35 pmOnly if they’re playing the Lakers.
See? I’ve actually read summaries of each of the three versions in the House and I can’t find the part where it says additional charges will be imposed on those who currently have health insurance in order to cover those who don’t. In fact, the whole purpose, above insuring the uninsured, is to lower the price of health insurance.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:35 pmpete, making sense is something trolls can’t relate to.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:37 pmcost will go down? Now that is a funny statement. When in the history of government has that ever been true.
Oh you clown, the COSTS to the individual WILL GO DOWN. Just think of how much money YOU will save by NOT having a premium or having (epxecting) your employer to pay for your healthcare (benefit)? Can you extract your head from your ass to see that distributed expenses means lower costs for all? Oh man you cannot be THAT stupid. ANd then couple that with the lower MANAGEMENT expenses of a MEdicare single payor type progrma and you have a wham bam thank you maam type of program. Why do you think the insurance companies are fighting this tooth and nail.
I cannot do this rationalization for each of the idjits out there.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:37 pmJane, they would have a better chance against the St. Mary’s School for Unwed Mothers.
Otherwise known as the GB Packers.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:40 pmHoodathunk says:
pete, making sense is something trolls can’t relate to.
I know, Hooda. But, in support of fair play, I can’t condemn a troll for being ignorant of facts he’s never heard. However, once assured that they are choosing to behave stupidly, the gloves can come off.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:41 pmWhy should the government decide how much my injury or death caused by a physician is worth? A jury can decide that.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:42 pmMax, as a former Knicks fan, I gave up on pro basketball a long, long time ago. :(
(Right now I’m watching the hapless Mets, up 4-1 against the hapless Cubbies…sigh…maybe next year?)
Sorry about the O/T, everyone.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:42 pmkwsventures says:
We need tort reform badly.
You are going to have to prove this first statement. What percentage of the money spent on health care is for medical malpractice awards? And can you cite any examples where a good doctor had to pay millions for not doing anything wrong? The right wing likes to talk this point up as if good doctors are losing millions when they shouldn’t. Never mind that it’s the really bad doctors who are losing the multi-million dollar punishments.
But with so many lawyers in congress that will be a hard nut to crack.
Gee, another attack on lawyers. How dishonest. The right wing loves lawyers who can put together a semi-coherrent, but still flawed, argument for why torture is legal. But the lawyers who fight against such practices? They aren’t “patriotic” enough for you, are they?
We also need the more competition with the ability to buy health insurance policies across state lines.
Actually that would be the last thing we need. There are states out there that are extremely friendly to the insurance industry. Friendly to the point of taking the interests of the insurance industry ahead of the interests of the people they are supposed to be helping. If health insurance companies were allowed to operate across state lines, they would all move their official headquarters to the state(s) with the most industry-friendly rules. (Rules about how long you have to dispute a claim, what you have to do to resolve disputes, etc.) That would be a terrible idea. Only a sick, twisted person who thinks that health care ought to be a for-profit industry would think an idea like that had any merit.
We need doctors to have a price list for everything they do. That will cause more competition via shopping around.
First of all, when you are sick or dying, it’s physically hard to go “shopping around” for the lowest priced doctors. It’s also expensive and only the wealthiest can afford to do it. And I always thought I’d heard that “doctor shopping” was illegal.
We need incentives for more people to become doctors. Supply and demand.
And therein lies the heart of your problem. (Pardon the pun, since you clearly have no heart.) You believe that health care should be a privilege and not a right. You believe that it ought to operate on the principles of Capitalism, which is not something designed to provide the best care for all but to provide the most profitable care for all. The very simple, undeniable fact is that it is people like you, who support the for-profit health care system, that are the ones who favor rationing care and pulling the plug on our elderly.
I’m glad I don’t know you personally. Because I wouldn’t want to know you if I did.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:43 pmTake this troll, for instance. His ability to simply deny facts makes it clear that he suffers brain damage from ramming his fingers into his ears, to the second knuckle, and humming to drown out the stuff he can’t deal with intellectually.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:44 pmBut 2% of billions is alot!
/greedster
September 6th, 2009 at 3:46 pmkws is a self made business person. How he can be profitable while sneering at his customers is a serious question.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:47 pmKws talks round in circles because he moves to another point when he is confronted with fact and reality. He will continue to do this because it wastes bandwidth for people who have something intelligent to say. He reminds me of the Monty Python argument sketch; kws is a caricature.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:47 pmWe need doctors to have a price list for everything they do. That will cause more competition via shopping around.
Now there is a wonderful thought. We can have medical clinics popping up everywhere like muffler shops. I am sure everyone would just love the idea of going to a doctor who promises a toaster if you visit.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:50 pmWe need doctors to have a price list for everything they do. That will cause more competition via shopping around.
P.A. System: “Dr. Riviera. Dr. Nick Riviera. Report to the coroner’s office immediately.”
Dr. Nick Riviera: “I’m getting so sick of that guy.”
September 6th, 2009 at 3:54 pmYeah, that’s what I want to do with a 104 degree fever…..
September 6th, 2009 at 3:55 pmThe Republican philosophy for American life. Go to WalMart, buy a cheap shirt made with slave labor, a head of lettuce picked by illegal immeigrants and have your gall bladder removed by a jackleg doctor.
Priceless.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:56 pmWell, if I am calling in fake-sick to work and need a doctors excuse why hell yeh Im going for the toaster and the doctors note. /snark
But if I am really sick? I would head to the emergency room.
September 6th, 2009 at 3:56 pmHoodathunk says:
We need doctors to have a price list for everything they do. That will cause more competition via shopping around.
Now there is a wonderful thought. We can have medical clinics popping up everywhere like muffler shops. I am sure everyone would just love the idea of going to a doctor who promises a toaster if you visit.
I suppose I should have shopped around before knee surgery this spring — except the insurance company does that for me. If I use a “preferred provider” they offer the best possible coverage, plus they set a limit on how much the surgeon can charge. They pay X and prevent him from charging any more than X+Y (Y being my balance), which is invariably much lower than the uninsured would be charged.
This is just all GOPer talking points (tort reform, shopping lists) which allows them to avoid telling the truth: “We don’t give a damn whether you have adequate health coverage or not. We’re covered just fine and so are our rich friends.”
September 6th, 2009 at 3:57 pm…it became “impossible for most Republicans to figure out how you’re going to save the money other than pulling the plug on grandma.”
Because Republicans would never consider the idea of reducing the seven- and eight-figure CEO compensations seen throughout the insurance industry. I mean, sure, if you’re trying hard to protect that, I can understand why you’d think the only recourse is to pull the plug on Grandma.
Tell me, Rudy, you fellow New Yorker. Why do you think that people in this country think the Republican Party is the party of the heartless, money-grubbing scum of Capitalist Society? And why do you think that’s a good thing to be?
September 6th, 2009 at 3:59 pm“impossible for most Republicans to figure out how you’re going to save the money other than pulling the plug on grandma.”
You’re right, 9iu11ani, it is impossible for Republicans to think up anything other than the most archaic solutions, because that is their limited range of thought. Don’t foist that on Democrats. Run along, mental midget.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:00 pmA single payor system has a price list for all procedures. It is the same price for all doctors. Simple.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:01 pmThe Republican philosophy for American life. Go to WalMart, buy a cheap shirt made with slave labor, a head of lettuce picked by illegal immeigrants and have your gall bladder removed by a jackleg doctor.
And pay 20% more for jackleg health insurance which will then refuse to pay jackleg Dr Jackleg for being a jackleg.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:03 pmDC,
That’s not fair…
… You can’t have standardized costs.
How else will the Insurance CEO’s raise a family on?
.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:04 pmDr. Jackleg, paging Dr. Jackleg.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:04 pmPrice lists for doctors are a nonstarter. The doctors fees are pretty much set by the Big Three-United Healthcare, Aetna and Wellpoint. Their reimbursement is the same for all three. Second, most doctors belong to a practice which delivers medical services with economies of scale. You can’t get much lower for doctors unless the system is changed from a per service payment to a health quality system which rewards doctors whose patients improve their general health. This is the system in the UK.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:06 pmHow else will the Insurance CEO’s raise a family on?
That multimillion dollar package is just so skimpy. Plus they have to put up with the calls from Dr Jackleg.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:06 pmTheoretically, health costs can be reduced by competition.
Either this is simply wrong (because health costs continue to rise) or insurance companies have colluded (violating anti-trust statutes) to keep costs artificially elevated.
GOPers? Which is it?
September 6th, 2009 at 4:08 pmbut gummble, that catalytic converter they stuck in is guaranteed for life.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:08 pmI know, I know. Both!
September 6th, 2009 at 4:09 pmHello trolls. What do you care about health care since science isn’t your party’s forte? You don’t run public medical schools and fund research; your only goal is to put a scalpel to what works for this country in the race to a $700B DoD budget. You are so dumbed down on this issue that you think health care is a run-of-the-mill consumer item, lumped in with holiday shopping and department store cards.
Fellow industrialized nations guarantee health care to its citizenry. Wonder why the U.S. ranks #37 care? The advice of rigid ideological heacks like you has been taken into account for too long.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:10 pmpags2,
There you go again. Raising the specter of a European system that works for the welfare of the people it serves which rewards doctors for a heck of a job.
Don’tcha know…
September 6th, 2009 at 4:12 pm… Americans DO NOT deserve as much. Just listen to their politicians.
Oh let’s give tort reform time to work. I’m sure in 50 years, the premiums will come down .5%…/sarcasm
September 6th, 2009 at 4:15 pmkwsventures says:
We need tort reform badly. But with so many lawyers in congress that will be a hard nut to crack.
Yeah, reform the torty and doctors will get away with cracking your nuts …
September 6th, 2009 at 4:16 pmHealth insurance. I think about that word and it doesnt mean what it says. They should call it a Health Lottery.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:17 pmJust as the Stiltskins have forgotten the last eight years do they also think a lottery is a great thing. Pull a Luntz and frame health reform as ‘Health Lottery’ where you can win millions in medical care thru voluntary taxation
September 6th, 2009 at 4:20 pmWhen did thy get uncracked?
September 6th, 2009 at 4:24 pmWhen physicans, and hospitals really work at reducing the medical errors and infection rates in this country–then perhaps we can talk about Torte reform. The latest study shows claims for malpractice are down, and so are payouts. Perhaps the physicians would like to take the cost of their premium payments up with their FRIENDLY INSURACE COMPANIES!
September 6th, 2009 at 4:26 pmMax Anax junius -1 says:
pags2,
There you go again. Raising the specter of a European system that works for the welfare of the people it serves which rewards doctors for a heck of a job.
Don’tcha know…
… Americans DO NOT deserve as much. Just listen to their politicians.
The corporations and governmental bodies, when faced with a choice of doing something intelligent or stupid, they opt for the stupid.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:26 pmPerhaps the American public via the Grand Jury Process should file criminal proceedings against the Repuglicans for their constant lies, misrepresentations and other underhanded stuff. You know in a lot of the end of days fear mongering one of the key ways of knowing that the Antichrist is coming is because of all of the deceivers floating to the surface of the scummy cesspools. Looks like the Repuglicans are the deceivers and have been taken in by the Antichrist!
September 6th, 2009 at 4:32 pm“Giuliani: Without tort reform, health care can only save money by ‘pulling the plug on grandma.’”
Man, Gotcha Gregory’s show Meet the Mess is going down hill more and more. What can you say about Ginger Julianna that can been said over and over again: his idiotic comments are worthless. And these comments is coming from an ex-mayor that took taxpayers’ money for use for his shag fund for his Southampton rendezvous with his then mistress now wife when he was mayor.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:33 pm.
Dear blue53,
That’s like saying WHEN pilots stop crashing planes, Airlines can then start to manage their costs, too.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:34 pmThis guy is such a goober…I can’t stand him.
He lies…cheats…lies…and is a hypocrite.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:38 pmRemember during one of the Debates when Rudy’s wife called him? That was cringe-worthy. In fact, all the Repug debates were stupid. Remember McCain’s NON-answer on evolution? What a joke.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:40 pmHmmm. No comments about the legion of lawyers employed by the insurance industry who’s only purpose is to challenge/deny claims? A good start to torte reform would be to require the insurance companies to pay first and sue later but, somehow, I don’t think that’s what Rudy is talking about.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:41 pmTonite on c-span 8pm EST…
T.R. Reid, author of the new book “The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care.” The fmr. Washington Post reporter traveled to a variety of countries to examine their health care systems. He also looks at the moral question of the right to equal health care notwithstanding ability to pay.
That’s a variety of countries that SPEND HALF of what America spends, with better outcomes…and where none of the Grandmas get Unplugged.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:42 pmHow is spending 1.5 million a day on lobbyists lowering health insurance premiums?
September 6th, 2009 at 4:43 pmpete,
You mean like how I have to pay TWO doctors bills of whom, BOTH denied me emergency treatment because my dentist saw me the day prior? Oh, did it matter that his office was closed when I went to the emergency room? Did it matter that it was the weekend? NOPE! But is does matter that they get paid. Albeit it’s a total less than $200, it’s just that if I ever want to see that $200, I’ll have to sue for it… AFTER I PAID IT.
P.S.
As a result of initially poor dental care, my dentist cost me an extra $1000
I see THREE small claims in my future.
AND two complaints. One to the AMA, the other to the ADA.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:51 pmThey want to tort reform because it makes more profits when people arent able to sue for medical malpractice. Tort reform doesnt fix the problem of health care for profit, it makes it worse.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:51 pmGood ole Rudy. Touting his talking points like they are facts. What we are having is almost a Generational War. These older folks don’t want to give up their Health Care. In fact, they will scream and rant because they don’t want anything to change. I know many people who are in their 30s, 40s and 50s who are pissed because these older Americans won’t bend. Many of these older folks get ‘Social Security’ and ‘Medicare’ They have the balls to say ‘Don’t let the Goverment mess with my Medicare” When they KNOW it is a social Government program. Selfish is what I call it. These older Americans were around during the debates back when these programs were implmented. THEY know what the Righties did then. They are doing the same thing now. Unreal.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:51 pmkwsventures since you are ‘pulling a Frisk’ by diagnosing people only outwardly: could you have predicted my brother would have a cancerous kidney removed and die (at the age of 50) while on an organ transplant waiting list?
September 6th, 2009 at 4:52 pmOh, by the way he was fit and trim, a long distance runner most of his adult life until the kidney cancer. Besides Medicare he was required to have a ’supplemental’ insurance plan that cost an additional $1,450/month. In case you are unaware – a patient on dialysis can’t generally hold a job so his only income: disability.
Please take your ‘broad brush’ and just go…
#175 Xisithrus,
And who’s money are they Lobbying with?
It will be a sad day for many patients who get turned down for treatment because their coverage was cancelled so that the company that carried them prefers to use their client’s money to lobby with, instead of provide contractual coverage.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:54 pmpete says:
Hmmm. No comments about the legion of lawyers employed by the insurance industry who’s only purpose is to challenge/deny claims? A good start to torte reform would be to require the insurance companies to pay first and sue later but, somehow, I don’t think that’s what Rudy is talking about.
I worked for an insurance company and your perception is wrong. Insurance companies litigate the huge claims. The smaller claims that are less than a million dollars are mostly settled to save costs on attorneys fees. When claims are reserved by the company, the reserves are put into safe financial instruments. Insurance companies get into a financial bind when the market goes down and their investments lose money. Settlement of large claims depend on where the case is litigated because large cities have juries that are more generous. Tort litigation and insurance claims are very profitable when the market is good. Many companies re-insure some of the risk.
Health insurance is a whole different ballgame. Profits are always increase by aggressive denial of claims, rescission of contracts and contracts with medical providers that have steep discounts. These contracts are where the Big Three keep driving down reimbursement to health care providers. That is because there is little competition and the Big Three dictate reimbursement rates.
September 6th, 2009 at 4:59 pmFolks, you have to remember how capitalism works. If you give someone money to provide contractual services that contract only applies to your understanding of the issue.
Insurance companies have the right to take that money and spend it on lobbyists and salaries and shareholders so that they can continue to collect it from you so they can continue to spend it on….
Contracts only mean something when between Republicans.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:04 pm.
Of course if the ONLY cars sold in America were Modle-A’s painted black, the logical choices are black, black or black. And then Ford could charge $50,000 per car. Of course that’s how costs and options are “CONTROLLED”…
… er, offered?
NO?
.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:06 pmHooda,
It’s the SMALL PRINT that get’s ‘em every time.
… Who reads that stuff, anyway?
September 6th, 2009 at 5:08 pmpags2 says:
Health insurance is a whole different ballgame. Profits are always increase by aggressive denial of claims, rescission of contracts and contracts with medical providers that have steep discounts.
I believe that was the point I was trying to make.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:09 pmFor those who decry a public option, would the government spend $1.5 million a day to deny you coverage? Remember, folks, that comes out of your premiums.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:10 pmThink about if, people. They have spent about $50 million dollars of the money you gave them to provide coverage for you to guarantee they can still keep making profits.
So how many of you were denied coverage in that same month?
September 6th, 2009 at 5:13 pmWhere’s kws? Out disparaging more overweight people? Ranting how all of humanity is out to get his money and drain the system? Must be tough to live day after day with that kind of hate.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:15 pmJane E. Schneider says:
Max, as a former Knicks fan, I gave up on pro basketball a long, long time ago. :(
(Right now I’m watching the hapless Mets, up 4-1 against the hapless Cubbies…sigh…maybe next year?)
Sorry about the O/T, everyone.
Hey, I’m a Clipper fan – I know about hapless.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:16 pmpete says:
Health insurance claims have nothing to do with tort reform. The Republicans want to have tort reform as an opening to federal legislation on areas of law that are governed by the states. Malpractice is the opening part of tort reform. The Republicans want to federalize all products liability. That is where a lot of claims affect the prices of goods. The Republicans would severely restrict liability and damages to make your claim worthless.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:19 pmI understand that pags2. I intentionally misused the phrase torte (a pastry) reform. I did so in attempt to highlight the hypocrisy of those who propose clamping down on medical malpractice without addressing the huge sub-industry that’s grown out of challenging, denying, and settling claims based on their profitability.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:26 pmYou know what’s funny – Giuliani still has no idea how pathetic he is.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:26 pm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj4wQjKhNQY
.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:27 pmSlightly OT but could someone tell me what the difference is between Karl Rove and Rahm Emmanuel? Other than KKKarl is hitting the Fox Pundit circuit?
September 6th, 2009 at 5:28 pmRich, Jane,
September 6th, 2009 at 5:31 pmI WAS a Sonics fan…
… But, alas. Change.
pete says:
Sometimes I miss the subtlety because I am paying more attention to my torrents.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:34 pmInteresting how our friend kwsventures suggests that it’s fat people who are the cause of our health care woes these days.
You know what’s really interesting?
Mississippi had the highest rate of adult obesity at 32.5 percent, making it the fifth year in a row that the state topped the list. Four states now have rates above 30 percent, including Mississippi, Alabama (31.2 percent), West Virginia (31.1 percent), and Tennessee (30.2 percent). Eight of the 10 states with the highest percentage of obese adults are in the South.
Red states drag down the rest of us once again.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:47 pm.
SICKO – The Movie
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-7648163380348323280&hl=en&autoplay=1
.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:57 pmNo problem, pags2. I’m often misled by an over-appreciation of my own wit.
September 6th, 2009 at 6:03 pmAh, yes, fall is in the air. Along with footballs.
So lets go with a sports analogy.
The losing team hires a hotshot young QB to revitalize the prospects. First few games he comes out and seems to be playing the same playbook, things are looking bleak. Fans are grumbling.
Suddenly, in the 4th quarter of the 4th game, the QB lights up and starts to put points on the board. A win with a Hail Mary in the final seconds! 5th game, more of the same with a final spurt to win by a point or two. Yeah! Keep it tight, keep it exciting. If you do that they will offer the QB a long term contract!
So, is this what we want for our government? Flash glitz, Hail Mary’s, last minute crap?
Sorry, but my government isn’t a football game. If it were, I would vote for a QB and team that started playing in the 1st quarter. No flash, no bang, just a job well done that accomplishes an end result the American people can live with.
We can’t afford to treat this as a game. This is a job and someone best get serious about doing it.
September 6th, 2009 at 6:10 pmThe American Taliban are alive and well judging from kwsventures comments.What kws will not admit is that $1000 per year of his health care premiums go to pay for the uninsured.What we need is a police force to enforce what kws deems healthy.Just think of the the career oportunities that would open up. Law enforcement to check on the obese,the non-smoking gestopo,etc.But wait! Isn’t this what our right wing friends are saying that the president is for? So kws should love Mr. Obama.
September 6th, 2009 at 6:14 pmThere’s an old saying in boxing, Hoodathunk, that goes something like, “there’s no need to counter-punch against an opponent who can’t hurt you”.
This upcoming week is going to be fascinating. My fervent hope, and expectation in the absence of new information, is that the House Dems will go quietly back to work and just dismiss the Reichwing screeching as so much noise. At this point I think that they may be better served by staring down the opposition rather than shouting it down.
September 6th, 2009 at 6:18 pmpete, may you be a prophet in your own time.
September 6th, 2009 at 6:19 pmCigarette smokers, sex diseased, high cholesterol people steal my insurance premiums and dont go on nature hikes!
Wehh Wehh
/ksnark
September 6th, 2009 at 6:25 pmI make no predictions, Hoodathunk. But, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to have let the Reichwhiners screech away unchallenged if the Dems intend to legitimize the bizarre fears on the House floor.
On the other hand, if it turns into acrimonious debate we should see some great one-liners. And I would feel a certain amount of satisfaction if Crazy Shelly (InsaneR-Mn.) were told to “sit down and STFU”!
September 6th, 2009 at 6:28 pmhttp://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/06/factory-ceases-paying-health-premiums/
Until they received a letter from Capital BlueCross in March of this year informing them that their insurance had been canceled, employees at the aircraft parts manufacturer in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, thought their insurance policies were valid, because their insurance cards continued to be accepted.
But, in fact, TAD had stopped paying health insurance premiums in October, 2008, even as employees continued to see health premiums deducted from their paychecks.
In the nearly half-year-long intermittent period, some employees racked up health care bills of more than $10,000 — bills that they are now on the hook for themselves, the local CBS affiliate first reported.
September 6th, 2009 at 6:37 pmNo matter how much people would like to believe that their health is entirely in their own hands, avoiding unhealthy choices, exercising, etc. it’s simply not true. These efforts may in many if not most cases be useful, but they are not feasible for everyone: sufferers from asthma, say, who cannot bike around freely, people with kidney ailments who cannot diet without putting themselves in danger, and so on. It’s sad to see so many people believing so firmly that they are destined to enjoy perfect health if they only follow the rules. Be sensible in your choices, but also be aware that one’s health is not necessarily the result of a choice in every instance….
September 6th, 2009 at 6:39 pmCrazy Shelly (InsaneR-Mn.) – that’s good I like that!!…BUT, isn’t it also INSANE for Giuliani to be out in the public spewing platitudes about something he is so ill informed about is ridiculous?? Was he just picked to be the poster boy today for the Hate-Machine?? Do they rotate on a schedule??
Howard Dean has had Rudy’s number since early last year and Rudy can’t shake it – even with hannity writing his talking points personally. A noun, a verb, and 9/11…All he knows..BUT if he goes home and dresses up like Marilyn Monroe he can probably get to the verb now days….poor Rudy..finally defunct..and obsolete.
September 6th, 2009 at 6:39 pm194. Hoodathunk says: Slightly OT but could someone tell me what the difference is between Karl Rove and Rahm Emmanuel? Other than KKKarl is hitting the Fox Pundit circuit?
September 6th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I think the primary difference is that Rahm Emmanuel thinks he’s a guy who likes political infighting and the human element of politics while Kark Rove is a manipulating meat robot who is stuck in attack mode and doesn’t give a shit about people. Just my opinion, mind you…
September 6th, 2009 at 6:39 pm“impossible for most Republicans to figure out how you’re going to save the money other than pulling the plug on grandma.”
I think others have already made similar points above, but this example of limited intelligence may shed some light on the utter inability of Republicans to govern effectively.
They simply can’t think beyond their simplistic world view. On health care, the only ways to save money are
a) tort reform
or
b) pull the plug on grandma
Is it any wonder they are so convinced government can’t work? Is it any wonder that whenever they get involved, problems inevitably get worse?
September 6th, 2009 at 6:47 pm#200 Hooda,
While a Superbowl may be won on a Hail Mary pass, that winning QB didn’t get through the post-season relying on that Superbowl Hail Mary pass he’s gonna throw come game time.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 6:50 pmAnd when those unborn start stealing my tax dollars I aint gonna be pro-life no more
/rants/stealingmymoney/freeper/canards
September 6th, 2009 at 6:54 pm#210 ralph,
What I find even more A-MAY-ZING is a “Librul” media that platforms their RE-D!CK-U-LOUSY fears.
That damned “Librul” Media, A-GAIN!
September 6th, 2009 at 6:58 pmA black man speaking to my children on Tuesday about staying in school yada yada runs counter to the world view that I, the suburban mom in a gated community, instilled in them: those people are supposed to fit in handcuffs, not speak to my precious children. Indoctrinating them is NOT grooming them to vote another George Bush in the White People House, no siree.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:02 pmTort reform gives doctors the freedom to clear out the dead weight in the population so that the cheap health premiums of the younger, sassier population are protected. I’m hoping someday that health premiums become .002% of young people’s paychecks while being 75% of older people’s.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:10 pmThis ad nauseum Republican chant calling for tort reform indicates just how much they hate being held accountable for their actions.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:17 pmI talked to an Aussie friend on the phone yesterday. He asked why there aren’t millions of people in the streets for health care. Good question. I didn’t really give him an answer, except speculating that people might be worried about getting shot by wing-nuts. The feelings of paralyzed dread that I had after Bush’s first election washed over me. Then I was a 24/7 live-in caregiver and couldn’t leave me post without breaking a promise. Now I have no reasons not to be out there. I feel so atomized.
I’m not fit to be an organizer right now. Anyone in touch with a group that could get the ball rolling? Sometimes I want to just go into the street and start yelling “PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION!” It’s highly unlikely that that would start something.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:17 pmTime to call congress together and disconnect Rudy’s life support…clearly a total lack of brain function.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:26 pmOne Big problem we have is that there IS no specific plan to defend. 1000 pages of legislative gobbldegook that may or may not be passed is Not doing it for me.
Hopefully this problem will be addressed on Wednesday.
And I think we should stop calling it a Public Option.
How about the “Choice to Join Medicare”, for Americans under 65.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:26 pmI would like to think that people would educate themselves about the issue and write, call, fax or email their Congressmen. In lieu of that I would settle for the unions and other interested parties leaning heavily on the Blue Dogs with the threat of no support from people or money if they don’t allow the public option. I just can’t shake the feeling that the public option will never come into existence because the Blue Dogs have sold their souls to the insurance companies.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:28 pmWatch FOX indoctrination to alternative reality much?
September 6th, 2009 at 7:34 pm#217 wiley,
September 6th, 2009 at 7:36 pmIt’s because Americans have been COWERED into being silent. Just look at the last decade. ANYONE who speaks up or OUT is automatically branded by that “Libryul” media that platforms for CONs as “crazies” and “wing nuts”.
Call it the Health Lottery and it will have a bukunormous pool of money paid for by town hall misanthropes
September 6th, 2009 at 7:36 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
.
Call Nancy Pelosi…
… She is holding ALL the cards.
(202) 225-4965
Write Nancy Pelosi…
… She will be writting the FINAL bill from the House.
http://www.house.gov/pelosi/contact/contact.html
.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:46 pm“And then I looked at other country’s health care and saw what I wanted to see, because I was never really for the public option.”
fixed it for you, arco
September 6th, 2009 at 7:47 pm.
Dear arco,
Then YOU read nothing but C-R-A-P…
.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:47 pmNailed it, wiley. Nicely done.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:48 pmAnd wiley, if I may add to your incisive comment:
“Easy to oppose a public option if your mind is already made up.”
September 6th, 2009 at 7:49 pmarco:
September 6th, 2009 at 7:51 pmWhen you were doing all this research did you read anything about quality of life, life expectancy, infant mortality, or anything like that?
.
Dear arco,
Why is America #37 out of FORTY?
… What? The other TOP 36 are just screw ups?
… What? We’re almost sooo good that we’re almost L-A-S-T?
p.s.
IF, and this is a big I-F, you are to be correct…
… Then please do show where the throngs of Canadians, French, English, Germans, Dutch, etc. are clamoring FOR private/profit care?
Wait…
… YOU CAN’T! Which cuts straight through the heart of YOUR argument.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:52 pmdb,
September 6th, 2009 at 7:54 pmarco needs no facts to argue baselessly from.
I want to know who is negotiating the fees for Rudi’s speeches.Where does the cost kick in for the American consumer. He is now a consultant. The only thing he knows is how to treat women poorly and how to be a 9/11 leader. How about the permanent post as curator of the 9/11 museum. He could go work for Rupert as an empire consultant. He could take surveys to confirm the liberal media bias. Just watch Sunday mornings ,you might find a liberal or two sprinkled in with the conservative retreads.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:58 pmarco’s comment reads exactly like a lame “concerned citizen” advocacy ad. You know, the type that presents an actor portraying an “average taxpayer” (always white) who expresses concern about a ballot measure or issue based on “research” that is always heavily biased in favor of the (usually corporate) interest group who paid for the commercial.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:58 pmThat’s what I was thinking, ralph.
“A storm is coming….and I am afraid…”
Oy.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:03 pmralph,
Like…
… “CO2 is Life”?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sGKvDNdJNA
You don’t know how many people I’ve wanted to test this concept on. You know, the concept of “PROVE IT”. You know, where THEY put a plastic bag over their head(because you can’t let any of that precious ‘life’ escape) for 24 hours. Those who survive, I’ll listen to.
It’s the “dunk a witch” test.
.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:03 pmZooey,
September 6th, 2009 at 8:05 pmno, no, no…
… V-E-R-R-Y afraid!
Zooey
September 6th, 2009 at 8:07 pmHave you been reading “Something Wicked This Way Comes”
OMG, Max, that is HILARIOUS!
“They call it pollution… we call it LIFE”
Classic.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:09 pmPhuck these ghoulish Repugs and the bloodsucking Insurance Companies they shill for. The only people falling for their lies are ones with a horse in the race, such as a job they want to keep working for one of said companies, or stock or just the plain stupid. I’m afraid we lost the war before the battle started by conceding a national single payer government run system. When the criminals design the reform, there really isn’t any reform.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:12 pmGNOP are mindless and their means of survival is walking in lockstep together. The lockstep gives strength and appeal and hides what idiot morons these people are.
“Billionaires For Wealth Care” Mock Anti-Reform Forces at Town Hall
My favorite on youtube: Billionares for wealthacare
September 6th, 2009 at 8:12 pmIn a sense, I am writing these comments to save time and money, on my time well spent outside of a regular job, because I am thinking ahead to what exactly I will need to live and survive in the longer, term! Societies with many different points of view have organized, however, for a much larger reason: societies have arbitrated between good and bad!
IMO, American political debate had become entirely negativistic, within the ‘baby-boomer’ generation. This was in spite of the fact that the English language can very precisely express deep, rich meanings, and that this expressive power encourages us to be forward-thinking! However, small, backwards-looking, groups of ‘negativists’, have always sprung up outside major centers of civilization, and their contrarian philosophies have ‘boiled down’ to their own individual or private priorities! These smaller, cults’ abilities to regularly acquire (social) wealth remained, unquestioned!! However, their consistent attitudes of retreat, dismissal, and an important impetus to renounce any, or all social standards, has always left the negativists dependent upon the rest of society to struggle, to debate good and bad legislation, and to carry on with the ups and downs of life people always experience… but without them!
IMO, the world is never completely either black nor white, and so an equally smart and productive attitude, counter to ‘negativism’, would in fact, be for each of us to adopt the actual social attitude, which alternatively stresses NOT TO ADOPT A COMPLETELY ‘POSITIVE’ REACTION-TO ABSOLUTELY, EVERTYTHING!?
September 6th, 2009 at 8:15 pmRemember this anti-gay marriage ad?
Freakish weirdos.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:17 pmhad enough,
I love this sort of mockery. It’s Monty Python-ish.
A proverbial “pie-in-the-face” for them.
Funny thing is, many of these health care opponents don’t get it.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:17 pmThe public option will work, Rudy Giuliani and the conservative party will be the ones that will pull the plug on Grandma, by giving tax cuts to the rich. If we followed the conservative party, Grandma and Grandpa will be out on the streets begging for money to pay for their health care needs, and a place to live. They can always move in with their kids, and have their kids help pay for their health care, if they have kids. That’s what the conservative party wants to do. There are no death panel’s just conservative lies, you should not trust them at all.
The goal is to put private insurance companies to make them have more competition, and eventually as a nonprofit organization, and to have all Americans on an affordable health insurance plan. It is unmoral to make a profit from somebody who is ill or has an injury. We have to face it, taxes will have to go up to provide health care for Americans, which will bring us back to be a civilized nation again. And I believe it should go up for everyone. Someday you just might be there without any health insurance at all, then where were you go. And remember do not trust conservative party lies.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:19 pmWe can thank Alex Castellanos for all of this nonsense. This perverted viewpoint will land the Republican party deep inside of the tank – for a long time.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:22 pmZooey,
September 6th, 2009 at 8:23 pmThis one is funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaT5qyVQnBY
That’s crazy, Max. :D
September 6th, 2009 at 8:26 pm.
Study: 2 out of 5 working-age Californians jobless
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/09/06/state/n000211D96.DTL
.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:30 pmHe’s a liar and all known Fox people should be boycotted.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:46 pmkwsventures says:
By the way, I learned all of this by opening my eyes and looking around and seeing the terrible physical condition of a large percentage of our citizens.
You do realize right, that one of the main reasons our population is overweight is because it’s actually too expensive to eat healthy? It is actually cheaper to eat at McDonalds than it is to purchase meat, vegetables, fruit, etc, etc.
Which I guess screws the poor twice. Too poor to get insurance and too poor to afford healthy food. Good way to feel superior there, kwsventures. You deserve to be a Republican. They think they’re better than the poor too.
September 6th, 2009 at 8:48 pmblue@251, Your right. Healthy foods are expensive. In our schools they have a Healthy Food policy. No offense, but they expect me to shell out fot a veggie platter (Which is expensive) Instead of making 24 cupcakes for 3 bucks? No way. I’m all for healthy eating. But telling kids they can’t have a cupcake for someones birthday? No way.
September 6th, 2009 at 9:06 pmI wonder if the people who spread the lies about Grandma, if their grandmother is still alive and what she thinks of her RePugs son or daughter. And what about grandpa, does he get to live? How about that elderly aunt, you know the one who is not a grandma………… does she get to live?
It seems as if they are only after grandma.
Don’t these people have sense enough to know that it’s not true.
September 6th, 2009 at 9:09 pmDon’t these people have sense enough to know that it’s not true.
They dont need facts, they made up their minds long ago and look for non-truths to get others to support their view.
September 6th, 2009 at 9:29 pmPlease help me understand something. When I hear people say things like “Medicare will be bankrupt in x-number of years,” am I right to think that those figures are based on the idea that costs will continue as they have been?
If so, wouldn’t changing even the simple prohibition on negotiating for lower Medicare drug prices curb a great deal of the future anticipated costs?
And under a Single Payer system, wouldn’t removing the insurance companies’ profit motive lower costs even more dramatically?
Do we really need to have a “for-profit” health care system? Is that really the best thing for everybody?
September 6th, 2009 at 10:14 pmThose are reasonable questions, Wayne, and as such will not be asked in this debate.
See, the “best thing for everybody” concept is, apparently, thoroughly communistic, or socialistic, or fascistic, or something bad.
The only thing that matters, apparently, is the best thing for those of wealth and power.
September 6th, 2009 at 11:31 pmMax Anax junius -1 says:
Call Nancy Pelosi…
… She is holding ALL the cards.
(202) 225-4965
Nancy Pelosi is not the problem. There are enough votes in the House for a public option. It is the Blue Dog Dems in the Senate that are fighting the public option. The House is responsible for all budget bills which must be initiated there. At best the House can hold up all budget appropriations until the the Senate negotiates with the House on the issue. The Senate is making it a take it or leave it proposition with the triggers, etc. I wish that my Senator Durbin would come out and make a statement about the insurance companies like he did about the banks. I want to see someone put the Blue Dogs on the spot about their campaign contributions. Obama is the one who asked the pro public option groups not to run ads in Baucus and Conrad’s states. I would rather they run ads nationally about these two Senators. If public opinion turns on them, then the rest of the Blue Dogs will be afraid to oppose the public option.
September 7th, 2009 at 12:50 amSince my current health insurance is Medicare I’ve spent a fair amount of time reading up on it. Rest assured that the claims that “Medicare is going broke” are pure Reichwing propaganda.
The figure that has taken hold is “$37 trillion dollars in 30 years”. What the people throwing around that figure fail to mention is that the $37 trillion figure makes the assumption that the current recession is unabated and unaddressed for those 30 years. Since that would also assume another 30 years of incompetent ideologues in power? It’s not a likely scenario.
September 7th, 2009 at 1:02 amNinerFan says:
kwsventures, evidently a conservative who doesn’t believe in government solutions, somehow wants to force Americans into a “healthy lifestyle.” How shall we accomplish this glorious task, comrade?
Well, obviously by making everyone buy their food at Whole Foods…
September 7th, 2009 at 1:21 am253. SmoothCriminal says: I wonder if the people who spread the lies about Grandma, if their grandmother is still alive and what she thinks of her RePugs son or daughter. And what about grandpa, does he get to live? How about that elderly aunt, you know the one who is not a grandma………… does she get to live? It seems as if they are only after grandma. Don’t these people have sense enough to know that it’s not true. September 6th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Depends on where ya live, Smooth. Around here, people don’t make a point of talking about throwing Grandma under the guerney because Grandpa is already a little peeved and he’s been in the garage for the last few days cleaning and checking his Colt 1911 and his hunting rifle and stropping a couple of blades. Grandpa isn’t the same kind of whining weiny R that his kids are and they know it.
September 7th, 2009 at 1:55 amKWS if you want to stop paying for other peoples medical bills, drop your policy, its the only way, well unless the idea of robbing banks holds some romantic attraction with you.
September 7th, 2009 at 2:32 am“impossible for most Republicans to figure out how you’re going to save the money other than pulling the plug on grandma.”
At least he admitted that the idea for pulling the plug was THEIR idea.
Even liars tell the truth sometimes.
September 7th, 2009 at 7:21 amCradle to grave universal health insurance for all Americans would, in and of itself, be true “tort reform” because families would no longer have to shoulder the burdens of physicians’ mistakes in so far as medical expenses would be concerned. American industrial competiveness would similarly be increased.
September 7th, 2009 at 9:16 amRudy, like his co-horts, puts money before Grandma.
DC seems rife with greedy sociopaths playing some cold war game theory with each other.
Game theory, by Nash, does define a winning stance to take. Selfishness.
September 7th, 2009 at 11:43 amFlat out. Money saved by insurers denying needed medical care dwarfs any monies expended because of grievous medical malpractice suits. In fact the denials may even be the basis for some suits in the first place.
September 7th, 2009 at 11:58 amThe medical expenses bankruptcy myth. Lots of hype. But the number are very, very small. No the world is not ending. Not even close. Sorry.
http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2009/07/30/the_medical_bankruptcy_myth_97335.html
September 7th, 2009 at 4:02 pmkwsventures says:
You are a liar a fool and an ignorant piece of garbage. This BS link that you posted on two other threads was taken apart. You push these biased worthless trollturds as if they mean something. The only thing they show is how stupid, gullible and brainwashed you are
September 7th, 2009 at 5:04 pmHey Rudi,
If you go to the doctor and he prescribes a medication. You get that prescription and get deathly ill, go to emergency and get straightened out. Told to see you primary care provider(personal doctor). because the prescrition you were givin never should have been taken by you with what ever pre existing. You miss work. You see your doctor and he bills you to correct his mistake.
That is a great business. Poor health care but very profitable. That is why republicans like tort reform. But you realize, republicans sue quite a bit themselves.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:01 amAnd what ablut industry against industry law suits. Will Tort Reform cover that? Right? How about making premeditated assault reform. Then tort reform might not be required?
The more this guy talks the more I feel the “Truthers” are correct about 911 being an inside job.
Obvious fascist war criminal.
September 8th, 2009 at 4:18 pmThank you for your sharing.!
September 11th, 2009 at 2:38 pm