Special interests receive a copy of Baucus plan before the White House does.
Special interests receive a copy of Baucus plan before the White House does.
In today’s press briefing, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs admitted that the Obama administration has not yet seen a copy of Sen. Max Baucus’ (D-MT) newest draft of health care legislation. “[W]e’ve seen what we’ve read in the paper, but I do not believe that we’ve seen paper on the plan,” said Gibbs. However, he added that he believes special interests on K Street have already received a copy:
GIBBS: I was told that — that K Street had a copy of the Baucus plan, meaning, not surprisingly, the special interests have gotten a copy of the plan that I understand was given to committee members today.
Baucus has received hefty financial contributions from the health care industry. Igor Volsky compares the Baucus proposal to other pieces of existing legislation.
Transcript:
QUESTION: The Finance Committee — well, actually, Senator Baucus’s draft has been, now, bouncing around for a few days on Capitol Hill.
First, has the president seen it (inaudible) his outline?
GIBBS: I don’t — I don’t believe — I don’t believe anybody here has — I’m — we’ve seen what we’ve read in the paper, but I do not believe that we’ve seen paper on the plan.
QUESTION: I understand it’s bouncing around K Street.
GIBBS: Not surprisingly, but I have not seen it here.
QUESTION: And has there been any direct consultations between anyone at the White House and Senator Baucus or anyone in the group of six, since this outline began being floated on Sunday?
GIBBS: I don’t — I don’t know how far back that would go. We’re — we continue to talk to all the players involved. Obviously, you know Speaker Pelosi and Leader Reid will be here momentarily. So he’s going to continue to talk to all of those involved.
QUESTION: What did you just mean…
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: I’m sorry. What did you just mean by it’s bouncing around K Street ?
GIBBS: I was told that — that K Street had a copy of the Baucus plan, meaning, not surprisingly, the special interests have gotten a copy of the plan that I understand was given to committee members today.
QUESTION: And…
GIBBS: It wasn’t cryptic. It’s who…
QUESTION: I mean, who is that a…
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: Are you impugning somebody here? I mean, it sounded like you were impugning, like, well, K Street has it. I mean, what…
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: Is that…
(CROSSTALK)
GIBBS: K Street is normally where associations and lobbyists have their offices. I’m simply making the point to you, Chuck, that those people…
(LAUGHTER)
… have gotten a copy of health care reform.
QUESTION: And why is that?
QUESTION: And you haven’t?
QUESTION: Max Baucus gave it to them?
Is is the other members of the committee gave it to them?
What are you saying here?
GIBBS: Call some of your lobbyist friends. I don’t know how. I don’t — we haven’t seen what was, I think, dispersed today, or what I’m told was dispersed today.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: … if K Street got it, you guys have it?
GIBBS: Not — not surprisingly, yes.
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Special interests should have a copy of the plan… after all, they wrote it.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:03 pmIf they’re just getting a look at Baucus’ plan that’s fine.
If they’re changing it and telling him what should be in there they own him.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:03 pmGotta keep those Corporate Payoffs rolling in.
Scum bag….
….yeah, we lefties will be critical of our own…
…if they do not do the “will of the people”
September 8th, 2009 at 7:03 pmWell sure. A guy like Baucus has got to run something like this by the boss before he presents it. That’s just SOP.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:07 pmYeah, Buckie, he’s a democrat, but is he one of “our own?” I’m not so sure. But, currently, if Dems want anything close to 60 or so votes in the Senate, they need guys from states like his. As bad as Baucus may be, he’s marginally better than a Repub who would replace him.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:09 pmHow are we ever going to compromise when right wing business owners complain about potentially saving $50,000 because of the public option, yet never once brings up the fact that they are spending $115,000 to insure 8 employees?
You have to watch this video.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2821
September 8th, 2009 at 7:09 pmWhat this really means is that the Special Interests actually wrote the bill.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:10 pmWhen did the “will of the people” become the “will of multi-national corporations?”
September 8th, 2009 at 7:13 pmSpecial interests receive a copy of Baucus plan before the White House does.
– - And judging by that photo, Baucus has definitely morphed into corrupt “Senator” Claude Rains.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:16 pmSpecial interests receive a copy of Baucus plan before the White House does.
– - But Limbaugh got a copy first. Then Drudge. FOX News was given one but those pinheads can’t make heads or tails of it.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:18 pm*What* a surprise.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:19 pmCould the WH have picked a worse Dem to lead this committee than Baucus?
September 8th, 2009 at 7:21 pmSOB SOP mfndino
Well! Now we know who Baucus takes his marching orders from.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:22 pmHopefully, the President will understand the level of disrespect and contempt that this represents from Baucus and the rest of the Gang of Six, and give the plan the appropiate consideration it’s due.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:25 pmNamely, the Trash Bin.
With DemoRats like this who needs enemies?
September 8th, 2009 at 7:25 pmThese swine like Baucus represent fewer people in their states than most large cities have. They cannot get the same kind of money from their constituency as they can from the special interests. They should not be allowed to chair committees.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:26 pmwhat a perfect picture for a two-faced senator: max baucus, the incredible two-headed DINO!
September 8th, 2009 at 7:27 pmThe people make the country, not the other way around.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:34 pmWhen the corporations are in control it is fascism.
When does the choice of the people become relevant?
When does the choice of the politicians who are paid by corporations become relevant?
When does representation of the people become relevant?
Does any politician represent his constituents?
Money has become more important than the people they are supposed to represent.
Careful, Baucus.
Your loyalties are showing.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:36 pmBought off Republicans and Democrats may very well kill or cripple Obama’s health care efforts. But there a may be a severe backlash.
I know a woman who voted for McCain. During the election she said ugly racist things. She is having some health problems. I was standing behind her at the grocery store the other day. On the line next to us someone made some health care comments that were basically Palin quotes. The lady turned to me. I thought here we go. She said “At least Obama is trying to do something.”
I about fell down.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:37 pmlemmie get this straight…baucus was elected to represent the state of lobbyistia?
hopefully, his constituents will remember this next time it comes time to pull the lever.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:40 pm12. Uke,
Don’t lay blame on the steps of the White House; if it was up to them, someone like Schumer would be heading the Finance Committee.
And we would’ve seen something resembling healthcare reform
September 8th, 2009 at 7:47 pmSomeone needs to ask him why the profits of the insurance companies are more important to him than the health of the American people? Baccus is dishonorable for choosing greed over health.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:50 pmBaucas’s plan should be marked – in RED – 86-point type
“D O A…do not consider” at the White House… and publicly thrown in the trash…
September 8th, 2009 at 7:51 pmBaucus has received hefty financial contributions from the health care industry. Igor Volsky compares the Baucus proposal to other pieces of existing legislation
Say no more.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:52 pm[except to explain it all to the right wing zombies that is, bless their souls]
The liberal interest groups need to make known that they are not going to contribute money, just like the unions, to these Blue Dogs who sold out. In fact, these groups should make it well known that they will go all out to defeat these Blue Dogs. That would make those insurance company monies worth less to the Blue Dogs since they will have to spend more.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:55 pmYou mean that Baucus received a copy of the plan from the lobbyists before he forwarded it on to the White House and other Congress people.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:58 pmBaucus Plan Written by Former WellPoint VP Liz Fowler
It’s actually Liz Fowler’s health care plan. If you open the document and look under document properties, it lists her as author. Liz Fowler was vice president for public policy and external affairs for Wellpoint, the nation’s second-largest health-insurance company, until she re-joined Baucus’ staff in Feb. 2008.
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/08/liz-fowlers-plan/
September 8th, 2009 at 7:59 pmOK here’s a tangible argument [notice i didn't say valid] from some of the right wing – the private insurance companies will have to fold, oh my! –
Well, we don’t wish the insurance companies any harm.
Question – should the nation be concerned that A) this could actually happen, and B) that this could be bad for more than the monopoly that presently exists.
We can always hire the work force in the insurance companies to operate the government insurance plan…
September 8th, 2009 at 7:59 pmNewsFlash: Americans wake up to special interest astroturfing to undermine democracy
September 8th, 2009 at 8:02 pmBaucus Plan Written by Former WellPoint VP Liz Fowler
Who could have predicted?
September 8th, 2009 at 8:03 pmGod I hope that President Obama doesn’t sell us out tomorrow by going for the “trigger” for a public option. If he does, I’ll be done with him. If he doesn’t get it that America wants a public option and thereby competition for the for-profit health industry, then I don’t know what we can do to get the message through to him.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:04 pmOkay, time for harmless fun.
Caption contest:
This person behind me has his arm up my puppet arse
September 8th, 2009 at 8:10 pmHey Bilbo I agree, if Obama doesn`t get us a public option then I am done with him also.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:14 pmI bet a lot of people are praying for a public option.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:16 pmNo more contributions to the DNC for me.Only to a specific cand.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:19 pm#33, It looks to me that their thinking, Its a good thing that we are both ignorant republicans. Being conjoined twins is hard enough especially when we have to sneak around to cheat on our wives. If one of us were a dem then thats the twin who would have morals and obey the law.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:24 pmAll theater, smoke and mirrors–the big insurers own the key players and will not only have their way, but will get even richer on “reform.” Baucus should be behind bars.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:29 pmI just pulled a fox noise trick, I called baucus a republican.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:31 pmCaption Contest:
Stand ye behind me Satan! Wait, get here in front where I can see you
September 8th, 2009 at 8:33 pmIf you look at the picture he has a suprised look on his face, and the bozo behind him has a serious look on his face, as if he just stuck something in him from behind without any warning.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:39 pmWhat a POS! He’s too stupid to even know he’s supposed to make it look legit! What an idiot!. I hope he gets everything he deserves! POS
September 8th, 2009 at 8:39 pmJust caught Insane McCain on CBS evening news, decrying the supposed “government takeover of health care” allegedly being supported by President Obama. Funny, Insane McCain happily trots off to the Naval Hospital for his elective surgery…The Naval Hospital is run by the government in case you didn’t notice Mr. GOP Hypocrite…
Have any Republicans in the House or Senate refused government-administered healthcare? Naah… They just don’t want the rest of us to be able to get it…
September 8th, 2009 at 8:41 pmBaucus is a teabagger. Van Jones was right….republicans (or Dems acting like a republican or supporting this cult group!) are as*holes.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:41 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Baucus cares about the millions/billions paid out to health care insurance company CEOs enough to protect these payouts at all costs, because paying for health care for the little people doesn’t create gigantic dividends!
September 8th, 2009 at 8:43 pmBy the way, Olympia Snowe cares more about higher internet speeds for all Americans than she does health care for all. See? Not sure why Obama is trusting this woman. Snowe wants a trigger for the public option. Sorry! No triggers, dingbat! The public option is basically “Medicare for all” and should be available to all who have zero zippo insurance.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:47 pmI am not surprised in the least. Its a foregone fact that both parties have tried health reform. Its become a political canard.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:49 pmOf course, its a positive null.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:50 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Baucus is one big, fat greedy fox guarding our hen house!
September 8th, 2009 at 9:02 pmMax has been playing with us all along. The ‘gang of six’, a lame attempt at bipartisanship, is really a cover up of Baucus’ making secret deals with his wealth insurance company masters.
The pic is perfect. It gives the perception of a two-faced, backstabbing Baucus. Fitting.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:04 pmYou know what would be nice, if some elected officials like the Blue Dogs would vote for the public option because it’s the right thing for the country. Not one of them will risk losing their jobs for the good of the people and they must be replaced.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:13 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
TheAntichrist says:
… I will not be surprised if the wimpy Obama administration backs down from that also.
I doubt Obama will get any liberal Dems to vote for a bill without a public option. The trigger is the only way he can sell the bill to the liberals. If he wimps out on the trigger then there will be no health care bill.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:15 pmShayne @ 53 – it would be nice. If only their lust for power and money didn’t rule them.
At this point, I’d rather see blue dogs lose their seats and risk the Democratic Party losing the majority. The blue dogs need to get flushed out. What’s the point of having the majority with blue dogs voting NO to legislation that will help the people? Blue dogs are a waste of space.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:20 pmQuite the opposite I would assume. Baucus got a copy of the special interest plan before the WH did.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:21 pmkwsventures says:
Wow!!! How long did it take you to come up with that witty remark? Did you have to stare at that keyboard for a long time to hit just the right note, to wow us with your intellect?
September 8th, 2009 at 9:22 pmSpecial interests receive a copy of Baucus plan before the White House does. »
So.
I am curious KWS, do you think special interests should overrule the majority [democracy]?
September 8th, 2009 at 9:25 pmI have a billion dollars and I will rule that KWS is an illegal operation,
Bye Bye KWS
September 8th, 2009 at 9:31 pmNow, I would never do that, but is highly possible that someone would
September 8th, 2009 at 9:33 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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“So” is what Cheney said when it became public that he ordered the torture of American Prisoners.
“So” is symbolic of Republican arrogance. So what if I broke the law? So what if the country’s economy is in the tank? So what if corporations bribe public officials?
Trolls try to excuse the inexcusable with the “so” mentality and it doesn’t fly with me.
“So” we removed them from power, and we will not stop until they are “so” in jail.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:44 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Go fu(k yourself, aaronk.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:46 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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Caption Contest:
September 8th, 2009 at 9:54 pmGovernment socialists will come to your home and force you to undergo colonoscopy. I’m having one now!
I just saw an article that says that 11% of Pediatricians/Primary Care Physicians are dropping immunizations. Why? Because Insurance Carriers won’t cover the cost of doing them. Yet…this is one of the primary forms of preventive care. I can’t think of anything else that so screams for reform.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:55 pmOutstanding @ 69 – ROTFL! ROTFL!
September 8th, 2009 at 9:58 pmYou know very well what I have hard time with, aaronk. And it’s not “facts and reality”.
It’s dickhead trolls like you, who pretend to be “respectful” but only to mask their ugly subhuman character.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:59 pmThe best plan (for the insurance industry) that our premium payment could bribe, er buy from Congress.
Disgusting. This is democracy>?
September 8th, 2009 at 10:01 pmOr, Korporatocracy?
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wow!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, The Rachel Maddow Show!!!
one whole year today!
CONGRATULATIONS!
September 8th, 2009 at 10:02 pmKorporateWeenieSucker hard at work tonihgt carrying Korporate H2O
September 8th, 2009 at 10:02 pmJim wolf359 @ 9:55
True. Definitely a huge exclamation point that our healthcare system is corrupted to the point of disfunction.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:03 pmIsnt their something wrong when your premium payments go to lobbyists to ensure your premium payments rise?
September 8th, 2009 at 10:04 pmWhile we came quite a way forward in electing President Obama, it is clear that many of the old DINO dogs need to get put down, electorally speaking.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:05 pmWho will absorb the costs of lobbyists?
The private insurance sectors insured
September 8th, 2009 at 10:06 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Hey! And how about those FINES they’re proposing for not having mandatory, non affordable Health Insurance!
Got debtor prisons for offenders who can’t pay?
September 8th, 2009 at 10:07 pmI know it’s surprising to some, but there are people in this country who truely would not have $50.00 for immunizations, though given I paid that for my son’s shots in the 80’s I question the price. That child whose family cannot pay is probably sitting next to your child in school. Come on cons, do what you do best, be selfish! A healthy population benefits all of us.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:09 pmaaronk says:
September 8th, 2009 at 10:10 pmThats not really the issue. I re-read the article again (cnn.com). There are costs associated with the Vaccines that far out-stripp what you pay out of pocket or as part of the co-pay. Besides the base cost of the Vaccine itself, their are things like refrigiration, electricity, and insurance required to store the shots. Most Physicians keep between $100,000.00 to $150,000.00 worht of shots on hand for use. Thses are things that they are not re-imbursed for.
Link
September 8th, 2009 at 10:11 pmRachel, grow your hair out. =)
September 8th, 2009 at 10:13 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Vaccinations are required for admission to Oklahoma schools. Not the same nationally?
September 8th, 2009 at 10:14 pmThe Antichrist says@ 67″
September 8th, 2009 at 10:15 pmThat was me! Sorry about that. Didn’t hit the correct button for your comment.
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Yanno, AA, deductibles are rising from 500 to a 1000 to 5000 to 7500. Politics aside, this is alarming.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:17 pmLou Dobbs is off the air?
September 8th, 2009 at 10:18 pmokie dokie says:
September 8th, 2009 at 10:19 pmI think its pretty consistent for all 50 states. There is not a national standard as far as I know. Generally, a kid needs to have had a Chicken Pox, MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella), Polio (oral or syringe), and a couple of others that i know I’m forgetting.
Does your Granny have 7500 bucks to meet the deductible?
Auto plug pulling.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:19 pmaaronk says: outstanding, that’s a good point, but it would seem to me that if you can’t afford %50, then you probably can’t afford the $25 or $30 copay either. Just a thought.
You are quite correct. It is in the best interest of all of us to provide access to preventative health care to everyone, no matter their ability to pay.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:22 pmThe private auto plug pulling
Deductibles.
YaY, what a scam this is.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:23 pmDear Aaron, why is it that I care more for Granny than you do?
September 8th, 2009 at 10:24 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Come, lets play Aronk
September 8th, 2009 at 10:25 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
One of the trolls was bragging yesterday that he has a $10K deductible.
Quite pleased with himself.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:27 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
They require hepatitus vaccination for colleges and high school now,
I know.
These vaccinations could probably be more efficiently and economically be dispensed at schools, but it is essential that students have a yearly physical. I know that’s not alway the norm, any more.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:31 pmhttp://www.preferredinsurancesvs.com/files/ManagedChoiceOpenAccess7500w-UnlimitedPrimaryCareVisits.pdf
Page 1
September 8th, 2009 at 10:33 pmAetna Advantage Plan Managed Choice Open Access
7500 with Unlimited Primary Care Visits
MEMBER BENEFITS
In-Network Out-of-Network+ deductible
Individual/Family
$7,500/$15,000
When deductibals reach that level, people will pay out of pocket to avoid using health insurance.
Its a scam
September 8th, 2009 at 10:34 pmRaise the deductible.
People will pay out of pocket to avoid using what they PAY for
September 8th, 2009 at 10:34 pmYour move Aaronk
September 8th, 2009 at 10:35 pmSo, people pay a higher premium with less coverage and a higher deductible with no increase in coverage.
WOW
September 8th, 2009 at 10:37 pmralph the wonder llama says:
It’s dickhead trolls like you, who pretend to be “respectful” but only to mask their ugly subhuman character.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Succinctly put, ralph.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:38 pmNicely played Xisithrus! Checkmate Aaronk.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:38 pmWhat might have happened if the Federal Government hadn’t mobilized to distribute and administer the Polio vaccine through the schools?
September 8th, 2009 at 10:38 pmaaronk says:fair enough, but why not just provide this care to those who truly can’t afford it, not “everyone”?
I could probably be OK with that, but it seems a bit like class warfare. If we as a society are interested in having an immune population, is it not in our best interest to provide this service to all, regardless of their circumstances?
September 8th, 2009 at 10:39 pmAww…C’mon Tom! You know the Feds can’t do ANYTHING right. Gummint is the problem, not the solution.
Or so say our Trolls and thier dead hero. Ronnie Raygun.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:41 pmI received that vaccine myself, tombaker.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:41 pmFree of charge, back in the socialist sixties.
Nicely played Xisithrus! Checkmate Aaronk.
I take no pride in this game. Its sad that we have become as we have, everyone against another.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:41 pmXisithrus says:
September 8th, 2009 at 10:45 pmI agree with that. But Aaronk had to be called on his BS.
I attended a MoveOn healthcare vigil last week.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:47 pmIt was very encouraging.
The healthcare horror stories were certainly not limited to income class.
Xisithrus says:
I agree with that. But Aaronk had to be called on his BS.
I concur
September 8th, 2009 at 10:51 pmX,
It appears you were in a battle of skill and wits with an unarmed troll.
Well done.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:51 pmIt appears you were in a battle of skill and wits with an unarmed troll.
Well done.
I feel sad
September 8th, 2009 at 10:52 pmMax Bogus
September 8th, 2009 at 10:56 pmWhat have I won?
That I must argue over our lack of empathy for papers value?
That I have to even argue about this, its quite apalling.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:57 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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the Baucus plan was never the plan.
This means nothing unless you are a troll who likes to dance on people graves if you get a chance.
aaronk, you are just an evil troll and an evil person.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:19 pmDon’t feel bad, X.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:20 pmLook at the posted story. Baucus’ loyalty seems to lie with the healthcare lords that contribute to his campaign and enable him to stay in office. It’s a system designed for corruption. And until we change the campaign and lobbyist system, our government and our citizens will be manipulated and deceived for the sake of profit.
Yeah, that makes me sad. But, it CAN be changed.
I only hope the chaos, division and deceit we have seen this summer will help instigate that change.
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people like aaronk who want to help no one except themselves are the reason we are having to fight this battle for health care reform right now.
They had a chance to make the economy work but they fell in the ditch on that one, now they don’t want anyone to fix the nightmare they left.
I just can’t get past how evil they are.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:23 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
aaronk, people are dying because you are a greedy child in a mans body. You are a truly sick individual and deserve no respect or consideration for anything from any decent human beings.
You are a scorpion who would rather die than be wrong and you don’t care how many people have to die to prove that you are wrong.
You literally disgust me.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:25 pmI know you by your smell. You smell like sulphur.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:26 pmIn this pic, Baccus looks like (the great) Chick Hearn.
If only he was as valuable :)
September 8th, 2009 at 11:27 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I also own my own business. My healthcare premiums have become outrageous. My employees opt out of subscribing to it because they can’t afford even their share of the premium.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:29 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
aaronk finds this fight for life and death to be amusing.
I can only assume that fu(ks like you get sexual release from other peoples misery.
To even speak against this effort is insane. You know our system is failing and people are dying needlessly and yet you come here to poke us with a stick. How damned sick do you have to be to do that? I just can’t even imagine.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:30 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
No fool. I am tired of people like you who try to hide behind your self-percieved reason when it is nothing of the kind.
You are the one that is on the wrong side of what is a right or wrong issue and you are the only one who can change that.
If you think what you offer is civil discussion after your performance here tonight then I truly feel sorry for anyone who knows you.
People like you are not happy people and you therefore intend to deny happiness to anyone else you can touch.
You are past ridiculous, you are pathetic.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:33 pmaaronk is living in a bubble of false security.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:35 pmIf someone in his family develops a cronic illness, his insurance premiums will go through the roof.
POP! (aaronk’s bubble breaking)
Aaron…why don’t you understand that if we HAD a strong public option that actually forced the insurance companies to be competitive, it would be a major benefit not only to your employees, but to YOU …?
Your employees would benefit by being healthier, and you and your family (and your bottom line) would benefit, because you could offer them better coverage for less money!
WTF is wrong with you, aaron, that you argue so hard and so obstinately against your own interests??
Honest-to-God, to me, you’re just arguing for the right to hit yourself in the head with a hammer, dude – why??
September 8th, 2009 at 11:35 pmOkay.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:36 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
#1 raynman says:
Special interests should have a copy of the plan… after all, they wrote it.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:03 pm Add Karma Vote Up | Subtract Karma Vote Down | (23) |
Wow…needs to be posted again.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:38 pmSo, how do you suggest curing the problem you mentioned Aaronk?
I would think a public healthcare system would relieve you of these problems
September 8th, 2009 at 11:38 pmNo one here believes a word you say. Anyone who stands on the wrong side of an issue like this can and will say anything and you have been caught doing it here before.
You are here for one reason only and that is to destroy any chance of a civil discussion despite anything you say.
You lie and make up facts and chew the fat while people are dying. You are a sick little puppy. But we knew that.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:38 pmIF Aaronks employees had medicare [extended to all] would Aaronks tax increase be less than what he pays for employee insurance?
September 8th, 2009 at 11:42 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Public health care would be a boon to business, why arent they backing thid?
September 8th, 2009 at 11:43 pmLeftside Annie says:
Honest-to-God, to me, you’re just arguing for the right to hit yourself in the head with a hammer, dude – why??
___________
Because it feels SOOOOOOOOOO good when he finally stops.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:45 pmExcuse me but I am not running for office so I can say whatever I want.
When you make asinine statements like the one below you are trying to keep us from fixing this mess. There are presently plenty of people who can afford insurance and have it who are losing their homes and even dying because the insurance companies are not working.
You want to pass off to us some illusion that if we only get insurance for everyone that “all will be well”.
Your efforts are in vain little fool. If this does not get fixed it will be worse than ever and it is failing now.
You are a common LIV who votes against your own best interests because you want to impress someone who will spit on you at the first opportunity.
You want to live that way, fine. Don’t ask civilized people to live in the slime and smell of death that surrounds you and everything you do.
aaronk says:
September 8th, 2009 at 11:46 pmfair enough, but why not just provide this care to those who truly can’t afford it, not “everyone”?
When your premium goes up 300% in seven years, and the price of insulin goes from $8 to $130 during that same time???
If you’re a business owner you should know!
Unregulated, unadulterated, GREED!
September 8th, 2009 at 11:46 pmaaronk says:
With soooooo many able-bodied able-minded Americans content to live off the public dole, and contributing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the treasury…
___________
A little meaningful documentation to substantiate this claim is in order before it is accepted as a valid point.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:48 pmaadrunk says
With soooooo many able-bodied able-minded Americans content to live off the public dole, and contributing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the treasury,
Why do you hate white trailer trash adrunky?
September 8th, 2009 at 11:49 pmIt’s so easy to see which politicians the insurance companies have bought and sold!
September 8th, 2009 at 11:49 pmI dont think Asronk is in the healthcare business.
However, dont you think Aaronk, that if people paid into the public pool, for healthcare, that you would be able to focus on other things than insurance?
September 8th, 2009 at 11:49 pmGIBBS: I was told that — that K Street had a copy of the Baucus plan, meaning, not surprisingly, the special interests have gotten a copy of the plan that I understand was given to committee members today.
I find it incredible special interest is even so publicly allowed to have anything to do with the bill. We know they do secretly, but to come out and admit it…..
Tomorrow is your day Obama to make this right or break our hearts.
I do resent the tease of not knowing.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:50 pmReporters seem to lack an awareness of what is appropriate to ask of elected, and appointed officials? Clearly, elected office is created by legislation, enacted in order to improve the conditions of, or to affect important social groups! In today’s press briefing it was not apparant from the topics of the many interactions, that the administration signs off on final legislation, and that their proposed health care legislation is already under consideration; this was without any statement concerning consequences of having supervised health care, for those who work or might work, or seniors and families, or other (homogeneous) groups, by age, gender or region!
September 8th, 2009 at 11:51 pmaadrunk is a complete moron if he’s OK with seeing his health care insurance premiums go up 15% a year but is too scared of a public option.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:51 pmHe deserves to go out of business.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
HEY!
September 8th, 2009 at 11:52 pmI can’t afford this! But my insurance carrier has me up against a wall and over a barrel. With a “pre-existing condition”, they know that they can squeeze money out of you until there’s nothing left.
That’s what greedy corporations do that make their fortunes on other peoples pain.
There’s that low life mentality we’ve come to hate.
I’m sick of people like you acting like everyone is living the life of Riley while drawing welfare.
I’m sick of people like you acting like every American doesn’t want the same things you want. A living wage job with health insurance.
And if that is out of their reach, you blame them. You are truly evil dude, you are. You just need to come to terms with it.
You spoke of reality to Ralph earlier. You really need to start being real with yourself before you call someone else to task for it.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:53 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Are you the same aaronk who said this of the late Senator Ted Kennedy not even 24 hours after his passing?
To paraphrase The Princess Bride, you keep using that word respectful. I do not think it means what you think it means.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:56 pmWho’s talking about free health insurance for everyone? It’s not in any of the bills I’ve studied. This belief that people want, or the proposed legislation provides, handouts just doesn’t fly. In fact, I haven’t been able to find anything that suggests that people who currently have insurance will pay extra for those who don’t. Frankly, that’s a Reichwing fabrication.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:56 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Insurance is failing to pay now. How can an intelligent person suggest more of the same to solve the problem?
Oh yeah, you believe in the “free market economy”
Well then where is that “new era of prosperity” that bush promised us when he gave tax cuts to the rich and de-regulated business?
See why you sound insane? Seriously, on so many levels just here tonight, you sound insane.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:57 pmBTW, “stupid troll” is not a “vicious attack”. It’s simply the best description for most of the Reichwhiners.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:58 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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to justify his foolish statement:
Now idiot, tell us how getting a tax break is “living off the public dole”
You are a troll. You can admit it if you are man enough, but you are a troll.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:02 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Nice troll spotting, Trollspotter. I knew the handle was familiar but, since they all tend to blur together, I had forgotten the specifics.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:03 amI dont see how subsidising saves you money..
September 9th, 2009 at 12:04 amTheAntichrist says:
I did notice that Nancy Pelosi started mentioning the terms “health insurance reform” and “trigger.” Don’t know if she’s cracking the whip on it though. Hoyer backed down to Obama/Baucus/Snowe care today.
I would surmise that Pelosi told Obama and Reid that the public option with a trigger is the only way she can sell the health care bill to the Dems in the House. If the Senate bill does not contain at least that, then there will be no health care bill. The fallout for all of this is going to be that the Dems in the House are going to be more difficult because the Senate has not treated the House with the due dignity they are entitled to as part of the legislative process. I would also think that Pelosi has told Obama and Reid not to come back on other legislation and try to force the House to compromise to make it palatable to the Senate. Since the House is the only chamber to introduce appropriations, you can be sure that Pelosi and the House Dems are going to stick it to the Senate when it comes time to reconcile the budget. This will be their way of asserting themselves. That means some of the Blue Dogs may find their pet projects are going to be cut.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:04 amTroll, idiot, fool, liar, hypocrite, just plain evil.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:04 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
In fact, there is no “President’s plan”. There are three versions in the House and another in the Senate but, none of them were written by President Obama.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:06 amaaronk comon liar, tell us how getting a tax break is “living off the dole”
Then when you can’t do that maybe you can talk to us about subsidies and how they are not “living off the dole”.
stupid troll.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:06 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Strangely enough, you don’t sound particularly sorry.
Allow me to repost what ElBruce said when you posted your initial comment. Perhaps you missed it the first time.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:08 am
Trollspotter says:
September 8th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
That’s why the aaronk troll should be flagged on sight.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:08 amIf I do not hear the words I want to hear from Obama’s speech tomorrow – I am done. There is no way I can support him if I do not see him fight for the public option. And, I am irritated with the suspense. I know he has been quite to let (special interests) Congress battle this out, but I would rather he was more like Pelosi and the progressive caucus, which is outspoken and strong in opinion.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:09 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I dont, the public option cuts out the middleman industry, thats why the profiteers dont want it,,
September 9th, 2009 at 12:10 amMiddlemen do nothing more than raise costs for their profit
September 9th, 2009 at 12:11 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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Where’s Xisithrus?
September 9th, 2009 at 12:16 amTo me, this is what’s so sad.
The narcissisism and phoney elitism of “conservative” thinking.
Clinging to outdated stereo-types of “people living on the public dole”. Please. No one wants to be a charity case. Sure, there are moochers and deadbeats, but I don’t think they’re going to stand a chance at any government aid office.
And don’t get me started about your disrespect towards Ted Kennedy, troll.
aaronk says:
Great question. I would prefer a system where a NFP was established to provide health insurance to those who cannot provide it for themselves. I would put those who live under 125% of the poverty level for their area, and those who are being denied coverage into that category.
The NFP would be forced to operate at 90% efficiency (overhead can only equal 10% of it’s income), so that we don’t have to worry about crazy salaries, bonuses…etc, which upset so many people right now regarding the private insurance companies.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
aaronk says:
what would you think of establishing a nfp healthcare operation where all contributions were equal to a 100% TAX CREDIT (not just a deduction) obviously up to the amount of federal tax you paid to begin with. and using that money to purchase healthcare for those below 125% of their local poverty line (that is just the number that mathew 25 uses to determine who the treat for free) ?
I would propose that the NFP could have no more than 10% overhead to income ratio, strictly regulated and audited both publically and privately. What do you guys think of that one?
August 12th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
_____________
Sooooooooo… Aaron… where are you getting your Talking Points™ from? Work for Big Healthcare? Those are both comments you posted here, almost a month apart. With just small changes in the wording to make it look like you’re not just cutting and pasting. And yet they’re both too detailed and involved to be extemporaneous comments off the top of your head.
Sooooooooo… where are you getting your Talking Points™ from?
September 9th, 2009 at 12:18 amaaronk, here’s your insurance at work:
and premiums:
It is no longer affordable and it no longer pays. It is damned near worthless.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:18 amOnce again, there is no single plan. There are four pieces of draft legislation which have not faced a vote or even been through the reconciliation process.
That’s why I’ve actually been pretty noncommittal about the proposed legislation. I find it to be intellectually dishonest to support, or decry, draft legislation. I find it akin to ranking sports teams based on practice sessions.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:18 amokie dokie says:
The narcissisism and phoney elitism of “conservative” thinking.
Clinging to outdated stereo-types of “people living on the public dole”.
Conservative have a double standard for welfare. It is bad for individuals but alright for corporations that get all sorts of tax breaks, some of which are so arcane and complicated. But the conservatives don’t call that welfare.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:20 amGN Aaronk
September 9th, 2009 at 12:20 amaaronk says:
the government becomes the middle man in this scenario don’t they? Do you really think our government has a history of controlling costs. They will obviously have significant overhead involved in running a gov healthcare system, and they have always shown themselves to overpay & under deliver in situations like this.
Why do we have to keep going over and over the same b.s.?
Cost-effectiveness of Medicare:
September 9th, 2009 at 12:21 am
Aaron, I’m going to take your points one by one.
My biggest problem with the public options is the unfairness of the collection & distribution of the funds required to make it happen.
Unfairness? How do you feel about the wealthiest Americans and the huge corporations who don’t pay their fair share of taxes? They shelter their income offshore – we lose BILLIONS of dollars to these tax cheats every single year – doesn’t this bother you? It bothers ME, Aaron, that you and I and other middle-class Americans pay a much higher percentage of our income in taxes than do the wealthy and the corporations.
With soooooo many able-bodied able-minded Americans content to live off the public dole, and contributing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the treasury, it is very unfair for hard working people like myself and certainly many of you who contribute such a huge chunk of the federal gov’ts income.
Aaron…how on EARTH do you *know* that those “able-bodied, able-minded Americans” are “content” to live on the public dole? How do you know that? Have you ever been forced to “live on the public dole”…? It most certainly is not a comfortable way to live, and the system is structured in such a way that a mother on welfare who manages to find herself a job gets penalized for it by losing her benefits! What would you do, Aaron, if you were in that position?
If you were forced to make a choice between a menial minimum-wage job that entailed leaving your children at home alone or with a patently untrustworthy babysitter (how could you afford to hire a dependable babysitter?) – or keeping your welfare check and staying home with your children…? What would you do, Aaron? What choice would you make?
What statistics do you have – besides rightwing talking points – that credibly tell us how many of those “able-bodied and able-minded Americans” are contentedly sucking off the public teat?
And who is it, Aaron, who pays for these people to go to the emergency room when they or their children get sick?
You do. I do. We all do.
We all pay for the diabetic who can’t afford insulin, so he needs to have his feet amputated. You and I pay for the woman who slowly dies of breast or uterine cancer because she couldn’t afford to have regular pap smear or mammogram. You and I pay for the child who dies from his uncontrolled asthma.
You and I, Aaron. We pay.
I would rather pay the money up front to help keep my neighbors healthy – I get a better return on my money that way, Aaron, and so do you.
As for paying for it – why the fck do I have to pay for bombs and weapons and wars started for profit? Bring the troops home NOW. Cut the Pentagon’s bloated budget to a reasonable amount. Close the tax loopholes and force the rich and the corporations to pay their fair share – then we’d have plenty of money to cover every single soul in this nation…including YOU.
In addition, if more people were contributing, more people would be concerned with how the money is spent….the way it is right now, why wouldn’t millions of americans want people like me to pay for their healthcare…..it doesn’t cost them ANYTHING?
Aaron, every civilized nation on this planet has universal healthcare. And every one of those nations has a higher standard of living than we do. If universal healthcare is such a bad thing – why are those things true?
Also, just plain common sense ought to tell you that the larger the pool, the smaller the individual risk. A large pool is much more cost-effective than a bunch of small pools. That’s why Medicare and the VA work so well. Think about it. Once you take profit out of the picture, it’s a whole new ballgame.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:21 amokie dokie says:
Where’s Xisithrus?
Im here, and now going to bed as well.
Yall take care and remember if you can see your hands and feet in your dreams you have control
September 9th, 2009 at 12:23 amaaronk says:
and they have always shown themselves to overpay & under deliver in situations like this.
_____________
Hmmm… yet another hyperbolic claim w/ no substantiation…
And we should NEVER expect “For-Profit healthcare” to overcharge and under deliver… HEAVENS NO… it would NEVER be in their own interest to do THAT, would it?
TRoS solemnly shakes head side to side…
NEVER! Large, profit-driven corporations ALWAYS have our best interest at heart, unlike groveling lackey govt employees or heartless poor tax-cheats who just want to steal our money, huh, Aaron?
September 9th, 2009 at 12:24 amThere’s another myth. The existence of problems in government programs doesn’t mean they don’t work. Just to stick to three popular examples, Social Security, Medicare, and the post office are wildly successful despite honest mistakes and outright fraud.
The fact is that hundreds of millions of people have been well served by, at least, one of those programs. To let an insignificant handful of worn-out horror stories really doesn’t reflect on the program as a whole.
BTW, please don’t equate the financial problems associated with the worst recession in 80 years with the long-term success of these programs.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:26 amThanks, pete.
Trolls often tend to blur together for me as well, but I remember aaronk because he was hawking health care “reform” suggestions from a right wing corporate shill (and managing director of the Ayn Rand Institute) named Richard E. Ralston.
Ralston achieved some notoriety by sending out a series of promotional letters declaring acts of charity to be a “hoax,” warning people not to be charitable because acts of charity can lead to “a one-way ticket to tyranny.”
That’s the sort of person aaronk wants to put in charge of health care reform.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:28 amYou’re right pags2. I’m all too aware of government subsidies, particularly state, that invite corrupt corporate welfare.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:29 amPrivate prisons and war profiteers…..ect…..
Oops! I have no idea where the “To let” came from in my last post.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:33 amLeftside Annie,
Well written.
There are two kinds of humans, those that care for one another and those that care about themselves. I honestly don’t know which is the Darwinian survivor, but I know that once my nut is covered, I gladly share the rest with my fellow travelers. Sure, there are some freeloaders, but what has been pointed out, the freeloading from the richest segment far outweighs the help given to those in need.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:35 amA small increase in taxes offset by a large reduction in insurance costs sounds fair to me.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:39 amPutting these CEOs that make ten million dollars a year out of work sounds fair to me. I don’t think they would be blatently taking these kinds of salaries if they didn’t think their gravy train was in jeopardy.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:49 amMad Max is in the bed with the healthcare industry. His pockets are lined with profits. Time to pull the plug on Baucus’ Senate career. Time to elect a statesman or stateswoman to work for the people.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:56 amChingebush – thank you for the compliment.
I’m not much of a Christian, but the way I look at it is that surely there were people in the crowd who took more than their fair share of the loaves and fishes Jesus multiplied…
But that did not stop Him from feeding the rest of those hungry people, did it?
September 9th, 2009 at 12:58 amA very astute point, okie dokie. The rape of our economy by the “investment sector” barely receives mention. For example, how often does ANYONE reference last year’s obscene orgy by the oil industry? Has everyone forgotten that, while the World’s economy tanked, the oil industry posted record profits for 47 consecutive months?
For nearly four years they collected more money with each passing day and contributed virtually nothing to easing the disaster. Most every penny went into a private account where it was hoarded in a fashion that makes Scrooge look like a charity.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:03 amLeftside Annie,
I think that modern American fundamentalists Believe that God smote all the gluttons before Jesus passed out the fishes and loaves. And anyone with the temerity to actually enjoy the wine was probably turned into a pillar of salt or buried, neck deep, in frogs.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:07 amLeftside Annie says:
But that did not stop Him from feeding the rest of those hungry people, did it?
_________
You have to understand, Leftside…
September 9th, 2009 at 1:07 amTrollsFolks like Aaron don’t subscribe to the idea of The Compassionate Jesus™… they’re… how shall we say… INVESTED in concept of The Cheap, Penny Pinching, Gun Toting Jesus…TRoS,
Every time I hear “fight for Jesus”, or “fighting for God”, I’m reminded of my favorite moment from all the Star Trek films.
When “God” requests the use of the Enterprise, Capt. Kirk says; “Excuse me. Why does God need a spaceship”?
For the life of me, I can’t understand why the Supreme Being would need: soldiers, worshipers, slaves, acolytes, or money. It just doesn’t make sense.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:21 amaaronk says:
——————————————————————————–
I pay for 75% of my employees, so the increase they see is typically marginal, but is felt hard by my bottom line.
Somehow I doubt this. If the increase they see is so marginal, then you would need to keep upping the % that you pay. That’s basic math.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:21 ampete says:
For the life of me, I can’t understand why the Supreme Being would need: soldiers, worshipers, slaves, acolytes, or money. It just doesn’t make sense.
_________________
Why would God need a spaceship?
Wants to impress his hot date?
But then… who would God date?
A younger, saner Sharon Stone?
As for all the rest… the soldiers, the guns, the lawyers and dinero… sounds like folks trying to imbue their psychosis w/ m aura of piety…
“It’s God’s Will™ that I take this large calibre handgun and relieve you of your belongings,
September 9th, 2009 at 1:33 amSucker… Pilgrim…”Was Sharon Stone ever, technically, sane?
Did anyone care when she was younger?
September 9th, 2009 at 1:42 amSeriously though, the whole God argument has always failed when He starts recruiting. One would think that a being capable of creating and controlling the entire universe would be able to directly deal with a bunch of guys, in funny clothes, who really piss Him off.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:46 amFor the life of me, I can’t understand why it’s legal for corporations to bribe members of Congress.
September 9th, 2009 at 2:33 amMe neither. But this is our system. Until recently, it was considered heresy to even question this arrangement.
One often sees comments implying that our Congresspeople are terribly corrupt for taking corporate money. But those are the rules here. It’s been this way for decades.
America has always been a sucker for capitalism. That’s the main reason why we’re lagging behind the rest of the world.
It goes back to the Reagan Revolution, when it was suddenly decided that the Merchant class are the super-race and should call all the shots in America. Life was an Ayn Rand novel.
The Pubs messed up our political system so badly, it is now guaranteed that all decisions wiull be made by corporations, and none by the people. This is why we’re all groaning and clutching our heads as the health care bill gets worse and worse.
During the 109th Congress, bills were actually written on K Street and then handed over to the Republican Congress, who were busily chasing pages around.
Obviously, the Democratic sweep has not changed the system overnight, and despite our efforts, we don’t seem to have any real reformers in sight. It’s a wonder our elected officials are even allowed to see bills at this point.
Election finance reform would be the best single reform we could make, but Obama has kind of futzed that for us.
Video: Mr. Logan is appointed head of Obama’s Death Panel
September 9th, 2009 at 5:44 amWhat brazen cynicism! I guess we don’t pay these slime balls enough. They should be forced to recuse themselves from a vote on an issue that will affect one of their special interest groups that has given them or their campaigns money over a certain maximum. But, then how will they afford their special golf trips to Scotland. Haven’t we had enough of this sht?
September 9th, 2009 at 8:44 amI’m going to address all of your individual attacks on me and my stance later, but let me ask all of you a couple quick questions so I can begin to understand where you are even coming from.
1) Are you completely against capitalism?
September 9th, 2009 at 8:48 am2) Are you against all forms of private sector?
3) What form of government do you desire: Communism, Socialism, A Democracy, A Republic, Other?
1) Are you completely against capitalism?
No, when capitalism is practiced with conscience – but in this current climate, many companies and individuals don’t practice capitalism, they practice crony-capitalism, which severly warpes the supposed free market. Are you for more regulation to rein in the bad actors?
2) Are you against all forms of private sector?
No, the private sector can do and does many things that the public sector cannot, but unfettered financials are dangerous to our democracy.
3) What form of government do you desire: Communism, Socialism, A Democracy, A Republic, Other?
Other – like a representative democracy, that isn’t beholding to corporate special interests to get elected.
September 9th, 2009 at 8:57 amTo the people voting me down……
POLITICO Breaking News:—————————————————–Sources say President Obama will strongly endorse a public insurance option before Congress tonight but stop short of an ultimatum, leaving room for negotiation. Reaching out to the GOP, he plans to acknowledge a problem with malpractice litigation.
Lol…
September 9th, 2009 at 9:03 amHard to know whether the Grand Obstructionist Party or Senator Insurance is the greatest impediment to meaningful reform. Baucus has a difficult job threading the needle to please everyone, but maybe he needs to please his campaign contributors a little less. Meanhwhile, the GOP pretends to care about health reform while badly distorting basic concepts.
http://axisofreason.com/2009/09/07/gop-grand-obstructionist-party/
September 9th, 2009 at 9:23 amDefinitely an Oligarhy. Without that pesky “c.”
September 9th, 2009 at 9:38 amI did not get any “talking points” from anywhere or from anyone. I don’t work for big healthcare. I own my own business in the recycling industry. I wrote a complete plan one day when I was frustrated with the debate on healthcare, and I can guarantee you that whether or not you like it, it is 100% original thought frome me. Send me an email if you want and I will reply with the entire document. I challenge you to find any source other than my own for it. My email is aaronk27@gmail.com
September 9th, 2009 at 9:59 amOh come on, you’re making this too easy. I like the fact that you conveniently stopped your stats at the year 2000, before the medicare prescription drug plans were in effect. The private insurers were already covering drugs, which is why their costs were higher. AARP and other senior organizations were wanting their drugs to be covered as well, so GW bought there votes with his prescription plan. Look at the medicare costs since then if you want to compare apples to apples.
September 9th, 2009 at 10:03 amBut aaronk, why should any reasonable person believe you on this when you have such an unfortunate history of plagiarism?
September 9th, 2009 at 10:05 amLeftside Annie, here are my responses.
I’m not sure where you are getting your data from, but the wealthiest Americans are carrying by far and away the bulk of the tax burden. I’ve posted the charts several times on here, but here is the link again. http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6
Additionally, about 1/3 of Americans don’t pay ANY federal taxes. Certainly some of them aren’t able to provide for themselves, but I have a hard time with the majority of that 1/3 just sitting back and letting me and you and many others work our buts off so they can receive the benefits.
Regarding illegal tax shelters, I am certainly AGAINST them. We have rule of law and it should be followed. Those activities should be prosecuted to the full extent of that law.
The majority of my “evidence” is anecdotal based on personal experience. I participate in a lot of volunteer activities to help the poor through my church and my community. I talk to these people…hundreds of them in my area (Indiana), so I see it 1st hand. They are very very satisfied living off the government. They make almost no effort to contribute at all. I have had many of them tell me that directly. “Why would I get a job”. My opinion is that the more we give these people, the less motivated they are going to be to contribute to society. Most of them have the EXACT SAME opportunities that I have and have had. I grew up poor, paid my own way and have been able to make a living. Why can’t they do the same? I firmly believe that welfare entitlements do much much more damage to many of the poor then help, because it completely discourages them from making anything of themselves.
As I have shown you above, the rich are paying the majority of the taxes, so I’m not sure what you consider to be their “fair share”
“why are those things true?” Well, they’re not true. Our system is too expensive, that I agree with, but it is the best and most innovative in the world. This is why people from other countries come here for many procedures. We don’t wait 6 months for cancer treatment, or 2 years to get a family doctor. The other countries do. Take Sweden for example…they have socialized healthcare and have had it since the left took over years ago. They have had to develop a private healthcare sector on top of that to create choice and be able to actually provide quality care. That’s a fact!
September 9th, 2009 at 10:19 amTrolspotte…I’m no rookie…I realize your best tactic is to avoid the message and kill the messenger. Get over it. You can’t shut down speech as badly as you want to.
September 9th, 2009 at 10:21 amLOL!
I have no interest whatsoever in shutting down free speech. You just don’t like people calling you on your plagiarism when you plagiarize. Poor you.
September 9th, 2009 at 10:24 amtrollspotter, I said on that very thread that I found ideas on the internet. I don’t know enough about healthcare to find a way to cut costs all by myself….I read, research, and try to draw conclusions….you should try it sometime.
September 9th, 2009 at 10:32 amNo, you said:
“Here are a few ideas that I have accumulated from different blogs and magazine artcles…etc over the last few months.”
Then you proceeded to plagiarize, word for word, the writings of Richard E. Ralston.
Pretty dishonest there, sparky.
September 9th, 2009 at 10:37 amtrollspotter….you’re stretching pretty hard to discredit me. I had no idea where I had gotten those bullet points from by the time I posted them on here. I keep a word document of all sorts of ideas. I wasn’t aware that they all came from the same article, that that is completely irrelevent, as I never claimed that they were my ideas to begin with.
September 9th, 2009 at 10:40 amMax Baucus. Isn’t he a lobbyist pimp and insurance company shill. Oh, maybe it’s just the reverse; lobbyist shill and insurance company pimp. Has Baucus convinced any of the insurance companies to move their back offices and call centers to MT yet, or are they still going next door to ND? (When they’re not going off-shore.) He may have stuffed enough goodies into the Senate bill by now to swing things in his direction, literally.
September 9th, 2009 at 10:43 amaaronk, imagine if I were to claim I had “accumulated” a number of ideas from “different” sources on how to fix health care, and then proceeded to copy something you wrote in its entirety, word for word, and only what you wrote, word for word, and I didn’t credit you at all?
That would be dishonest behavior. The very kind you indulged in.
September 9th, 2009 at 10:47 amThis kind of action is UNACCEPTABLE. He needs to be removed from the panel and fined(maybe) for giving out GOVERNMENT documents. Wait a minute, would give government documents to anyone outside the government be considered TREASON?
September 9th, 2009 at 10:48 amfair enough trollspotter, but it was a mistake. I copy & past so much from the internet so I can come back to it later, and I try to file it away somewhat organized, but that doesn’t always work. None the less, I am not a “hack”, and I’m sure you realize by now that my NFP idea is original.
September 9th, 2009 at 11:01 amWell, no, actually, I’m not convinced it’s your original idea at all.
Based on your past behavior, how resistant you were to acknowledging your plagiarism “mistake”, your tendency to duck inconvenient questions, and the way you viciously went after a late Senator not 24 hours after his passing all while claiming how “respectful” you are, I suspect it’s entirely possible that this NFP idea you’re claiming as your own is someone else’s work that you’ve simply reworded slightly so you can’t be busted on plagiarism quite as easily.
Past is prologue and, unfortunately, you’ve accumulated a reputation for untrustworthiness.
Excellent advice!
For example, I read what you wrote, I researched that it was plagiarized from a right-wing crackpot who thinks charity is a “hoax” and a “ticket to tyranny.” From that information I drew a very logical conclusion about your character and your motivations.
“Fair enough,” as you say. :)
September 9th, 2009 at 11:24 amI’m not sure where you are getting your data from, but the wealthiest Americans are carrying by far and away the bulk of the tax burden.
Not when SSI payroll tax deductions are factored in. This is the weakest argument conservatives can muster, and they always forget to add the payroll tax for SSI. It is this seemingly calculated half-truth which typifies republican debate. Get your facts straight, before trying this again.
September 9th, 2009 at 11:47 amI wonder if the voters of Montana are going to ask for their Senator back anytime soon?
September 9th, 2009 at 12:23 pmBaucus Tweed
When did “health” companies and insurance companies (also with a grain of salt) start to control HEALTH? 300 million people and their health… owned by about five corporations?
And the finance committee, bow down before it, right? Who elected them to this level?
This is like letting the Steelers’ accountants draft the players and coach the team.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:47 pmWhy wouldn’t the WEALTHIEST Americans carry the tax burden? Those with little are going to tap into their accumulated WEALTH to pay or survive? And don’t they benefit from the infrastructure and “free market” more for their business? I mean if they want to go to Somalia and start there it’s permeable (right in this area some have gone in, young men), or mountains in Central Asia with no government intervention.
All the braggarts with four mansions or ski lodges should gladly pay more taxes and flaunt that they could still live like that. But they’re too lazy, plus the imagined swap instrument markets have dried up worse than New Coke.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:53 pmThank you for your sharing.!
September 11th, 2009 at 3:09 pmWe used to have a guy in our firm whose specialty it was to find out who in particular on K Street (or on the Hill, or elsewhere) was drafting legislation, then ply that person with drinks or other things and get a draft copy of the legislation. estetik ameliyatlar
September 15th, 2009 at 7:02 am