Dick Cheney ‘nearly destroyed’ efforts to convict British bomb plotters.
Dick Cheney ‘nearly destroyed’ efforts to convict British bomb plotters.
Yesterday, following “one of the most complex and costliest criminal investigations since the Second World War,” British police were finally able to convict three men of plotting to blow up a series of transatlantic airplanes in a planned terrorist attack that would have potentially been “three times more deadly than the 9/11 attacks.” Today, British intelligence officials are saying that former Vice President Dick Cheney “nearly destroyed” efforts to bring the bomb plotters to justice by ordering the arrest of a suspect before all the evidence was gathered:
Dick Cheney, the former US Vice President, nearly destroyed Britain’s efforts to bring the airline bomb plotters to justice, police and intelligence experts said today.
By ordering the early arrest of Rashid Rauf, the bombers’ link man in Pakistan, Washington forced British police to detain the suspects in the UK before all the evidence had been gathered, it was claimed.
Andy Hayman, who served as the Metropolitan Police’s Assistant Commissioner Specialist Operations while the terror attacks were being planned, writes today of the Cheney-ordered arrest of Rauf, “[It] hampered our evidence-gathering and placed us in Britain under intolerable pressure.”
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Andy Hayman, who served as the Metropolitan Police’s Assistant Commissioner Specialist Operations while the terror attacks were being planned, writes today of the Cheney-ordered arrest of Rauf, “[It] hampered our evidence-gathering and placed us in Britain under intolerable pressure.”
Cheney: So?
September 8th, 2009 at 11:46 amImagine that…
Not satisfied with screwing up his own country… Cheney proceeded to try and screw up GB too.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:47 amWhy isn’t this man facing criminal prosecution?
There are so many people serving time for much, much less.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:48 amPhoto Caption: The Face of Evil.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:51 amY’know, sometimes one’s physical appearance is an accurate reflection of their inner being.
I suspect the reason Cheney’s lip is always poised in an unmistakable sneer is that his face involuntarily reflects the contempt in which he holds most of the rest of humanity.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:51 amThis is a man who truly lives up to his name….
September 8th, 2009 at 11:51 amIn the words of Dick Cheney… “So?”
September 8th, 2009 at 11:52 amOUR Dick Cheney obstruct justice? For political gain? Really? I’m shocked. Truly astounded.
OK, not really.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:52 amGood old dead eye dick doing what he dose best.
F things up and cause more problems and makes us so much safer.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:53 amCheney was never interested in police solutions.
If he were, bin ladin would be in jail now.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:54 amDarth Cheney doesnt care about convictions. He doesnt care about the safety of people. Darth Cheney asks one question and one question ONLY when deciding what to do and that is how will it benifit ME
September 8th, 2009 at 11:54 amWell, I think that was done long ago by BB
September 8th, 2009 at 11:54 amUnreal. Cheney and his Duaghter have been going around defending the indefensible (Torture), claiming how safe they had made us, and nothing could have been further from the truth. And this hasn’t been on MSM at all. Damn that ‘Liberal’ Media!
September 8th, 2009 at 11:57 amLet’s face it. Much attention was paid to the utter stupidity and incompetence that was GDumbya over his entire eight years in office. Darth Cheney was largely given a pass while he hid out in his “undisclosed location”; however, he is now being revealed as equally stupid and incompetent as his sock puppet.
At the base of Darth Cheney’s incompetence is the fact that he is a cowardly chickenhawk. Old five-deferment Dick is afraid of his own shadow. That’s why he supported torture. That’s why he went off half-cocked over this case-in-point.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:57 amAhhh, yes.
The intelligence of The Nation of Dick.
…or is that The Nation of Small Dick.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:58 amI think Dicked Intelligence Nation would suffice
September 8th, 2009 at 12:01 pmDick says – So!!! I saved Americans, I did, me, the DICKSTER, I run things, you listen to me and march to MY orders. I tortured people, ME, and I enjoyed the fcuk out of it, if you’re Brown you’re going down. I spied on America, i spied on the World, ME, I did, and I saved American lives by killing Americans. 911 was such an easy thing to do, I just told my brainless moron to sign a few papers, I make a few phone calls and BAMM, it goes down smooth as glass. Just a few of those UnAmerican, treasonous Liberals could two and two together, but the MSM is never going to listen to them, they listen to ME, the Master Assassin, DICK and if you don’t listen to DICK then you are going to have a Connell moment….sputter, sputter, BAMMM, fire, arrrgghhh, death…hehe, I so enjoyed that. What did I tell you to say George?
George says – Uh??? Get fresh blood from cute kittens and puppies? I think?
Dick says – DON’T THINK, MORON, DO!!!!
September 8th, 2009 at 12:02 pmDid this old codger have the right to have anyone arrested? He wasn’t a member of the Executive Branch, I know, but was he a member of some Wyoming lynch mob? Dante’s Inferno is waiting for you Deadeye Dick.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:04 pmThis should bring him out of his ‘undisclosed location’…again.
Never, EVER trust a Dick Nation with a Dick Armey, teabaggers.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:04 pmCan you imagine the outrage and wall-to-wall FuxNews coverage had the Brits nearly foiled a huge intelligence operation here in America?
Some idiot GNOPer would have been on the House floor within a day introducing a bill to change our common language from “English” to “American”.
PEACE
September 8th, 2009 at 12:05 pmRather than work with UK authorities to build evidence and prevent this attack Cheney decided to pull this guy off the streets of Pakistan despite pleas from the UK. This man, Rashid Rauf, was the point man for the 7/7 UK subway attack and another failed attack in the UK. Over 200 men were being closely watched in the UK as the plot evolved. Due to Cheney’s fear/incompetence British authorities managed to thwart the attack and pull off convictions for three of the terrorists.
From the Times UK:
“Mr Rauf’s fate is unclear. After his arrest, he managed to escape from Pakistani custody under suspicious circumstances.”
link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6825778.ece
The man that Cheney dispatched to retrieve Rauf from Pakistan is a man named Jose Rodriguez. Currently retired (as of 2007) Mr. Rodriguez was the head of Clandestine Services for the CIA and was the authority who demanded the destruction of interrogation videotapes. Summoned by congressional subpoena, he was excused from a January 16, 2008 House Intelligence Committee hearing on a request from his lawyer Robert S. Bennett. He has since requested immunity for his testimony in the destruction of these tapes.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:06 pmI think the term “criminal negligence” comes to mind here.
We’ll make it charge #3,268 when it comes up at the Hague, for those counting.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:07 pmWell, not that many people will know about this. MSM isn’t reporting on it.(This is very scandalous, but hey, Jon and Kate are on!) MSM likes to tell us, “Bush and Cheney were so 2008! It’s time to move on. Sure, this is outrageous. But who cares.” MSM is too busy reporting about ‘Zcars’ and Obama’s ‘Controversal’ speech. Trifling things ‘Black Water’ (Or Xe) and this don’t apply.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:08 pmOr declaring that henceforth, they would be known as “Thomas’ FREEDOM Muffins”.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:11 pmCheney did so much damage to our country. He is also responsible for thousands of people dying for no reason.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:13 pmI look forward to cheney`s sixth heart attack,hopefully its fatal.
Imagine how excited Larry Craig and Lindsay Graham would be when they renamed the cologne “FREEDOM Leather”.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:13 pmGB should be thankful Darth Cheney wasn’t wandering around GB drunk with a gun, we all know how that turned out,here.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:13 pmThis is why other countries have lost respect for us. Remember in 2004 (After Bush won re-election )when that Britsh Paper ran with the Headline, “How could 49,000,000 Americans be so dumb!” Add the ‘Downing Street Memos’ and the Brits think we are either insane or totally ignorant.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:16 pmJust what everyone’s always suspected of DarthBarney Cheney;
Premature Ejerkulation.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:20 pmThe President is speaking now to the schools –
Can’t you just feel the indoctrination to be a communist, socialist, fascist, gay, tree hugger right now?
The parents of the children whose schools that refused to air this should have a class action lawsuit against those schools.
You just got to hate the ignorance and bigotry of the ReichWingers.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:21 pmThe link, above, to the article states that it was GWB that ordered the arrests of Rauf in Pakistan, not that it makes much difference which one ordered the arrest, just wanted to point that out.
And I also notice this was in Aug 10, 2006, an election year, a few months before the vote on Nov 7, 2006, and the arrests was when the liquids on flights scare began.
Does anyone else think this arrest might have been, in part, politically motivated?
September 8th, 2009 at 12:23 pmi remember reading stories about this snafu at the time of that early arrest…
September 8th, 2009 at 12:23 pmdon’t i…?
yes, x…
September 8th, 2009 at 12:23 pmYeah, And watch the people complaining about Obama’s speech. they seem like a bunch of uneducated hicks too me. Do They honsestly beleive he will use this opporunity to brain-wash kids? Come-on. Could it be because Obama is black? You bet your ass it is. Obama could cure cancer, Hell, he could bring world peace and it doesn’t matter to these people. They will always find fault.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:26 pmWow im getting voted down for wishing cheney was no longer with us. Haliburton, service men are electrocuted because of their shoddy work. Cheney got us into a war with iraq, thousands of people die. Because of cheney Valeri Plame was outed as a cia agent.She could have been killed. Cheney does not care about Americans,he cares about big business and money. We will be alot better off without him.The sooner the better. Sorry if you think what im saying is wrong,but he doesnt give a shit about you and I.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:28 pmIs the most horrific 18 minutes of my children’s lives over?
September 8th, 2009 at 12:30 pmThe trollops are voting people down again S64. The same on the Palin thread[s]
September 8th, 2009 at 12:31 pmThe Dick probably wanted to protect someone in Pakistan. Plus “get even” with someone in the UK. Plus he’s stupid.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:32 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
@36, Really. The Repugs got into a tizzy over that? Dear Lord. This really backfired for the Righties. Many of the schools who banned it, were forced to rethink their position. That is what pisses me off. Why should the 20 or 30% of whack-o’s dictate what should by policy. What a huge ‘Controversy’ over a whole lot of nothing.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:34 pmCheney ignored the comity that should have been accorded the British. No wonder other countries hated Bush.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:34 pmIt’s real thin
Point 4: British Intelligence is making the claim, that adds some weight.
Point 5: This is hardly the first time that Cheney has been implicated in meddling in intelligence/counter-terrorism efforts, is it? More calories…
We could go one but I’m worried about this threads heart, it’s so heavy.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:36 pmAnd totally unrealistic, too. Right?
By the way, Tundra, the article didn’t say the arrest made the case impossible, just that it “hampered our evidence-gathering and placed us in Britain under intolerable pressure”. But what’sa little “intolerable pressure” among friends, huh?
September 8th, 2009 at 12:37 pmBy asking the children what they want to do with their lives, the president is unlawfully probing into their psyche. Just heard that from a great republican on Nancy Snyderman right after the speech. I believed every word.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:37 pmOr was it Dicks way of keeping us safe while making the UK unsafe>>>> but either way i kinda though that the UK was on our side as well in the keeping safe thing that is.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:38 pmTundra,
Who you gonna believe? They made this a public announcement, an official public announcment:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6825778.ece
September 8th, 2009 at 12:38 pmThey were trying to get to the ring leaders and didnt have that information yet.
I dont think you read the article, Bush/Cheney were being kept up to date on the surveillance, when Rauf was arrested by Pakistan because of US demands it forced the British to end the surveillance early and arrest the plotters when they were trying to find the ring leaders, they wanted more information.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:40 pmAnd when they did they knew it would shutter the British investigation.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The GOP is afraid children watching Obama will like him. He gives a good speech, he’s good looking, nice. The kids might start to question their Parent’s insane opinions. Can’t have that!
September 8th, 2009 at 12:40 pmTundra: You’re very good and picking nits. You must be a nit-wit. heh.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:41 pmJames Bond always overcomes the sabotage of CIA double agents.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:43 pmFriggin Dr. Nancy just let a Repug claim Obama wants socialized medicine without explaining that ‘Medicare IS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE! WTF! She is supposed to be a doctor! Didn’t the AMA back Obama’s proposals? I Really, really hate MSM.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:44 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
***
#48m,
even dick won’t
defend himself on this one.
*
dick knows (and you don’t) that when you shoot a fellow hunter
in the face it’s best to just admit it and have another beer.
:|
September 8th, 2009 at 12:46 pmP.D. says:
@36, Really. The Repugs got into a tizzy over that? Dear Lord. This really backfired for the Righties. Many of the schools who banned it, were forced to rethink their position. That is what pisses me off. Why should the 20 or 30% of whack-o’s dictate what should by policy. What a huge ‘Controversy’ over a whole lot of nothing.
We in the GOP carry a natural ability to make complete asses of ourselves. People could save a lot of time by giving us the permanent title ‘Fools of the Year’ but its best to break it down to 365 parts.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:46 pmPerhaps the official wasn’t talking about “intolerable pressure” on the case itself, but rather “intolerable pressure” placed on the intelligence services of an ally as a result of a politically-motivated arrest.
You seem to think that, because the suspects were convicted, it’s all good. No harm could possibly have done. That seems to be the crux of your argument, anyway.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:46 pmTundra, are you bi-polar?
September 8th, 2009 at 12:47 pmYou seem to think that, because the suspects were convicted, it’s all good. No harm could possibly have done.
Intolerable harm?
September 8th, 2009 at 12:48 pm***
#53,
your causal relationship adds up to this:
the sky is blue therefore
the earth is flat.
*
“thin”.
:)
September 8th, 2009 at 12:49 pmDick/Bush thought they only had 24 hours before the world ended.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:49 pm:)
#59,
yes.
:|
September 8th, 2009 at 12:50 pm***
#58,
yes and no.
:\
September 8th, 2009 at 12:51 pmOMG!! Joe Watkins is going on a tirade about Baracks speech. Even Chuck Todd practically laughed at him! Unreal! This has got to be the biggest sham I have ever seen! Now parents HAVE TO COMPETE WITH PRESIDENT! LOL! A word of advice to the Repugs, Move on… This is just embarrassing.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:51 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Or could it be that Rashid Rauf had access to info Cheney didn’t want the Brits to have?
September 8th, 2009 at 12:53 pmI made no such claim that you made such a claim. I simply suggested a reasonable extension of your objection to the tone of the thread. The claim that the conclusions reached are “real thin” are likely accompanied by the belief that they are unrealistic given the circumstances, since realistic claims would have some basis in precedence.
And at the time, it carried the weight due a pronouncement from such a highly-placed official. The tragedy is that the reckless abuse of that attendant trust caused irreparable damage to the reputation of Secy. Powell and the credibility of the Bush administration.
It doesn’t follow, however, that all government agencies deserve the same lack of respect, which seems to be your argument here.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:53 pmI think that by intolerable pressure they mean the arrest of Rauf [which would have made his co-horts aware] put pressure on the agents to round up those they had under surveillance much earlier than they would have liked. They were following these guys everywhere, had cameras and bugs on them. They would have never made it onto a flight.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:54 pmNo, the term was “intolerable pressure“.
nice try at rewording things, though.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:55 pmI was watching that, too, P.D..
Who’s paying Joe Watkins to demonize Obama?
September 8th, 2009 at 12:55 pmShorter Tundra: I’m scared to death and I trust Dick Cheney to protect me from the bogeyman!
September 8th, 2009 at 12:55 pmNowhere does it say that. THIN
September 8th, 2009 at 12:55 pmI’m going to defend Dick (surprise!). It’s ok to put a lot of bushy people on legal layaway and come up with the probable cause later, let’s say in 5 years. Maybe 8. Whatever. I have cable in America – FOX ROCKS!
September 8th, 2009 at 12:56 pm&&&
#65,
“samr”?
*
nervous.
unsure.
bi-polar.
:\
September 8th, 2009 at 12:56 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
And just HITH is Tang and Hydrogen Peroxide explosive?
September 8th, 2009 at 12:57 pmokie@70, Who knows. But what a pathetic display. Joe had absolutely NOTHING to go on. But it didn’t stop him from making a complete idiot of himself. This is just sad.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:58 pmTenthers, birfers, or deathers?
September 8th, 2009 at 12:59 pm***
#75,
is that your summation?
***
you’re going to make a
fine lawyer some day.
*
good luck.
:)
September 8th, 2009 at 1:00 pmTenthers, birfers, or deathers?
Exactly!!
September 8th, 2009 at 1:01 pmP.D. says:
OMG!! Joe Watkins is going on a tirade about Baracks speech. Even Chuck Todd practically laughed at him! Unreal! This has got to be the biggest sham I have ever seen! Now parents HAVE TO COMPETE WITH PRESIDENT! LOL! A word of advice to the Repugs, Move on… This is just embarrassing.
I’m a proponent of School Yard reform. Every kid who tuned in to the president’s speech should be bullied mercilessly by 40-something white males. Let’s allow people to bully across state lines, since most of it goes on in Texas.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:03 pmXis
U.S Vice President fully at fault.
Nowhere does it say that. THIN
Dick Cheney ‘nearly destroyed’ efforts to convict British bomb plotters.
perhaps we are reading it in different ways.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:03 pmTundra, Rauf was the point man for at least three potential terrorist attacks in the UK and was under heavy surveilance. Britain had TWO HUNDRED men under surveilance in this plot, an investigation that they asked the US to help in but requested that they NOT pick up Rauf while they built their case. They managed to convict THREE. Cheney’s fingerprints are ALL over the capture of Rauf as he dispatched his head of Clandestine Ops to Pakistan in order to get him. Now the man is missing and who knows how many of his tarrorist cell contacts escaped justice due to Cheney’s unending fear?
September 8th, 2009 at 1:06 pmTundra says:
You are completely WRONG. You have no way of knowing he has NO evidence. We are talking about it coming from British Intelligence. He could have plenty of evidence just not any he could publicize. In fact that is very probable since THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING SINCE THE INCIDENT FIRST HAPPENED. You can say he didnt GIVE any evidence but by that logic we can never trust ANYTHING the CIA says because they dont have any evidence. Of course we both know they DO they just have assets to protect. This is fairly solid. The ONLY criticism you can possibly make is that they didnt take YOU and the rest of the world into their confidence and SHOW you the evidence. The story hasnt changed one whit, its not like this is a new revelation they were saying he endangered the intelligence gathering from day one. I dont know why you are so desperatly trying to cover Darth Cheneys butt. He didnt care about convictions. He probably hoped he could make the Brits do what the Bush administration was doing and start holding people without trials by tipping the hand BEFORE the got the evidence. Now THAT is speculation but its just weak telling us all this man has is speculation in fact its plain silly.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:08 pmHe is speculating and the speculations he is leveling are all based on things he “thinks” happened.
Well, it’s more than one man who ‘thinks’ this is what happened actually… the article refers to the many in the intelligence community who believe this to be so.
You have to ask yourself, Tundra… what do they gain by believing this? It doesn’t further their agenda in any way, does it?
I mean, it’s not like they’re looking to build a case to invade Dick Cheney’s house based on their interpritation of the evidence before them, is it?
They can’t even un-elect Bush/Cheney at this point… I even doubt whether its possible for Cheney’s approval numbers to sink any lower… so what do they gain by putting forward this ‘theory’ unless they genuinely believe it to be the truth? And have considerable evidence to back up their belief?
September 8th, 2009 at 1:09 pm**
#82,
i read it as “nearly destroyed”.
*
is there anyone else here who
reads it as “fully at fault”?
*
anyone?
:)
September 8th, 2009 at 1:11 pmTundra would like to pass the blame along to Pakistani authorities. Nevermind that Musharef was Cheney’s willing puppet. The US and Britain were working together to prevent this plot and arrest it’s conspirators. Britain knew full well that it was Dick Cheney who sent Rodriguez into Pakistan to get Rauf despite their pleas otherwise. Just one more example of Dick Cheney’s fears and incompetence. Kept us safe my @ss!
September 8th, 2009 at 1:11 pmDoes this mean I can bring a soda onto the plane now?
September 8th, 2009 at 1:12 pmDamn “security theater”, let’s try some “risk assessment” for a change.
Tundra, Rauf was the point man for at least three potential terrorist attacks in the UK and was under heavy surveilance. Britain had TWO HUNDRED men under surveilance in this plot,
No complaints about those statements at all.
an investigation that they asked the US to help in
Still no complaints at all
but requested that they NOT pick up Rauf while they built their case.
The U.S did in no way shape form or fashion pick him up.
They managed to convict THREE. Cheney’s fingerprints are ALL over the capture of Rauf as he dispatched his head of Clandestine Ops to Pakistan in order to get him.
Because of all the things going on in pakistan (Bin Laden, the whole little war going on next door) the ONLY possible reason to send his head of Clandestine Ops would have been to tell Pakistan to arrest this guy that the UK wants?
Now the man is missing and who knows how many of his tarrorist cell contacts escaped justice due to Cheney’s unending fear?
September 8th, 2009 at 1:12 pmIf the rest of your statements are true, then sure.
Q. Is there ANYTHING that 5-deferment Dickhead Cheney did not try to destroy?
A. Nope.
————————————————————–
Habeus corpus- DOA
US Constitution shredded
Torture as official US policy
warrantless spying
civil liberties destroyed
launched and lost 2 illegal wars
war profiteers enriched
the filthy rich are now even filthier rich
*Mission Accomplished*
September 8th, 2009 at 1:13 pmbut requested that they NOT pick up Rauf while they built their case.
The U.S did in no way shape form or fashion pick him up.
On what evidence do you base this belief, Tundra?
September 8th, 2009 at 1:14 pmBritish Intelligence believes differently…
On what evidence do you base this belief, Tundra?
British Intelligence believes differently…
Last I read they believed that Pakistan picked him up and he spent time in a prison over there.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:16 pmWe know, you righties think everything that doesn’t kill somebody is acceptable. Like waterboarding and all the other forms of torture and indefinite detention. No harm no foul. Of course you’ll just ignore the dead detainees and all the harm tha was caused by the early arrest. It’s what you do.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:18 pmDoes this mean I can bring a soda onto the plane now?
September 8th, 2009 at 1:18 pmNo, you will continue to pay whatever costs and fees that the corporate heads at the airline decide to charge you for such things.
As far as you know. I would suspect that the Metropolitan Police’s Assistant Commissioner Specialist Operations dealing with terrorism would have some knowledge that neither you nor I have.
But I have no PROOF of that, so I guess I am just speculating and the speculations I am leveling are all based on things I “think” happened. It’s a conspiracy theory, in other words.
Is that how it goes?
But if that were the crux of your argument, perhaps you should have included it IN your actual argument.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:19 pmLast I read they believed that Pakistan picked him up and he spent time in a prison over there.
Right… and the British believe that this was done under direct orders from Cheney… based on the evidence put forward in the article (and other evidence not put forward in the article, I’m sure)
What do the British gain by holding this belief? As you have pointed out, they did convict the three suspects they captured so they don’t need to shift any blame.
What’s the motive for calling Cheney criminally inept at this point in time other than that they genuinely believe it to be true?
September 8th, 2009 at 1:19 pmTundra, this speaks to undeniable behavior on the part of bush and cheney to bully the rest of the world.
If you want to pretend that cheney didn’t do it or if wasn’t offensive to the British. Go ahead and be delusional.
Just shut up about it. You sound like a harpie or a 4 year old.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:20 pmBelac, I believe that Tundra would express his position this way: the man who is speaking out has “ZERO” proof of his statements. None, zero, zilch. He is speculating and the speculations he is leveling are all based on things he “thinks” happened. It’s a conspiracy theory.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:21 pmhttp://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/35424
SUSKIND: In late July of 2006, the British are moving forward on a mission they’ve been–an investigation they’ve been at for a year at that point, where they’ve got a group of “plotters,” so-called, in the London area that they’ve been tracking…Bush gets this briefing at the end of July of 2006, and he’s very agitated. When Blair comes at the end of the month, they talk about it and he says, “Look, I want this thing, this trap snapped shut immediately.” Blair’s like, “Well, look, be patient here. What we do in Britain”–Blair describes, and this is something well known to Bush–”is we try to be more patient so they move a bit forward. These guys are not going to breathe without us knowing it. We’ve got them all mapped out so that we can get actual hard evidence, and then prosecute them in public courts of law and get real prosecutions and long prison terms”…
Well, Bush doesn’t get the answer he wants, which is “snap the trap shut.” And the reason he wants that is because he’s getting all sorts of pressure from Republicans in Congress that his ratings are down. These are the worst ratings for a sitting president at this point in his second term, and they’re just wild-eyed about the coming midterm elections. Well, Bush expresses his dissatisfaction to Cheney as to the Blair meeting, and Cheney moves forward.
NPR: So you got the British saying, “Let’s carefully build our case. Let’s get more intelligence.” Bush wants an arrest and a political win. What does he do?
SUSKIND: Absolutely. What happens is that then, oh, a few days later, the CIA operations chief–which is really a senior guy. He’s up there in the one, two, three spots at CIA, guy named Jose Rodriguez ends up slipping quietly into Islamabad, Pakistan, and he meets secretly with the ISI, which is the Pakistani intelligence service. And suddenly a guy in Pakistan named Rashid Rauf, who’s kind of the contact of the British plotters in Pakistan, gets arrested. This, of course, as anyone could expect, triggers a reaction in London, a lot of scurrying. And the Brits have to run through the night wild-eyed and basically round up 25 or 30 people. It’s quite a frenzy. The British are livid about this. They talk to the Americans. The Americans kind of shrug, “Who knows? You know, ISI picked up Rashid Rauf.”
NPR: So the British did not even get a heads-up from the United States that this arrest was going to happen?
SUSKIND: Did not get a heads-up. In fact, the whole point was to mislead the British…The British did not know about it, frankly, until I reported it in the book…
What’s interesting is that the White House already had its media plan already laid out before all of this occurred so that the president and vice president immediately–even, in Cheney’s case, before the arrest, the day before–started to capitalize on the war on terror rhetoric and political harvest, which of course they used for weeks to come, right into the fall, about, “The worst plot since 9/11, that has been foiled, and this is why you want us in power.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lets stop being so oblivious
September 8th, 2009 at 1:22 pmTundra bleets: “The U.S did in no way shape form or fashion pick him up.”
No he just strangely “wen’t missing” after being arrested.
Tundra says: “Because of all the things going on in pakistan (Bin Laden, the whole little war going on next door) the ONLY possible reason to send his head of Clandestine Ops would have been to tell Pakistan to arrest this guy that the UK wants?”
Well he sure as hell wasn’t sent after Bush family friend bin Laden was he now? You still are dancing around the fact that the US and the UK were working together on this investigation and UK intel has a clearer insight into the chain of events than you do. THEY implicate Cheney in this published report and I think that THEY would know.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:23 pmHey, if it makes you all happy,
Cheney is just a bad guy and anything said bad about him is obviously true.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:25 pmTundra says:
What’s the motive for British Intelligence to come forward now, Tundra?
It affects NOTHING.
Unless it is simply what they believe to be undeniably true.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:27 pmpoor little tundra, still frozen, still ignorant, still a coward
September 8th, 2009 at 1:29 pmTundra says: 01
That is a BS strawman and you being petulant. Lets stop pretending that this JUST criticism without any reason for it. Lets stop pretending this criticism is just speculation derived from throws of the I Ching. Suskind reported on this AT THE TIME from his sources in the US. British Intelligence is saying it as fact. It is more like Cheney is an angel and obviously NO criticism of him is justified. At least that is how YOU are coming off. This is pretty solid. About as solid as it gets from intelligence agencies. I can only assume you dont WANT to believe it.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:29 pmTundra, in the case of an intel operation, so much would be classified that ‘proof’ one way or the other is impossible.
Once again, you use he fallacy of the excluded middle. He may have evidence that he can’t use (the Brits have this notorious Official Secrets Act). You have no way of knowing what proof he may or may not have. Even if you take the dishonest tack of saying that anything other than 100% proof is zero proof, in an intel case it’s safer to talk about belief. As I see it, the basis for you big ZERO proof is the rhetorical ‘If he had proof, then why would he talk about belief?” Very good reasons.
And Rauf was not just arrested: he was arrested and escaped. And was then declared dead in a missile attack without (ahem) proof.
That’s not just a precipitous arrest: as the Brits were closing in, he gets DISAPPEARED. An important Al-Qaeda terrorist intent on destroying American lives, and we a) let Pakistan arrest him; 2) don’t demand him to be taken to Gitmo; 3) don’t change the alert color when he escapes 4) declare him dead without a corpse in a big huge rocket attack.
That’s a lot more than ‘Pakistan arrests somebody.’
September 8th, 2009 at 1:30 pmSo your defense has been because you believe Cheney is a good guy? Priceless.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:32 pmOT — Let’s see if anything comes of this:
September 8th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
^^
#101,
don’t “slit your wrists”,
dick’s a good shot
and a great hunter.
…
feel better?
:)
September 8th, 2009 at 1:34 pmYeah, it’s not like we’re talking about a guy who has championed justice in America is it?
September 8th, 2009 at 1:35 pmDick didn’t want them convicted,
he wanted them renditioned,
so he could get a boner
watching videos of them being tortured.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:45 pmWow. Talk about a lazy response.
I never considered Tundra garden-variety troll before, but this thread is making me re-think my opinion.
September 8th, 2009 at 1:50 pmNothing will happen to Dick. Just like nothing happened to Richard Nixon.
They are the elite class and are above the law, sadly.
As an example, the Democrats were elected in 2006 to impeach Bush/Cheney. What did they do right after they were elected? They took impeachment off the table. And some of you still think Democrats have a spine? Please………
Ben Affleck put it best. It’s sad hollywood is the only ones who have the balls to call the Democrats out on being cowards. Grow a pair please.
September 8th, 2009 at 2:05 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn84oKYMIs8
The photo of Cheney in this article sums him up– snarling, hateful, uncaring, violent bully. If “liar” were written on his forehead, it would be perfect.
September 8th, 2009 at 2:30 pmOhy, wait– is there room on his forehead for “torturer & murderer”??
September 8th, 2009 at 2:31 pmI think Tundra is saying that we shouldn’t necessarily assume Cheney did anything wrong on the basis of anything British intelligence says. After all, Cheney has proven himself to be very honest over the course of the last 8 years. Tundra probably feels that considering Cheney’s record of truthfulness, we should give him the benefit of the doubt.
September 8th, 2009 at 2:35 pmNinerFan says:
I think Tundra is saying WWWWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH stop picking on Darth Cheney. It is so mean to hold him accountable for his actions
September 8th, 2009 at 2:45 pm***
#111,
it is ever thus,
the sheep’s clothing comes off
and the troll is revealed.
*
tundra is just another troll.
:|
September 8th, 2009 at 2:49 pmI guess DICK ran out of people to drown!
September 8th, 2009 at 2:56 pmTundra says:
“Hey, if it makes you all happy,
Cheney is just a bad guy and anything said bad about him is obviously true.”
Tundra, if you have any evidence that Cheney is, in fact, a good guy, I, for one, would like to hear it. Because, the facts, as I understand them, are not his friends.
September 8th, 2009 at 3:02 pmI’m waiting for Tundra to bravely step up to the plate here in liberal land to make the case for Dick Cheney. Tundra, if you think Cheney is a good guy, a good American or a good anything, let’s hear the evidence!
September 8th, 2009 at 3:28 pmI’m waiting for Tundra to bravely step up to the plate here in liberal land to make the case for Dick Cheney
Niner,
September 8th, 2009 at 3:57 pmI never said Cheney was a good guy, far from it. I said just because he’s a bad guy, doesn’t mean EVERYTHING he is accused of regardless of the proof is true.
Tundra says:
You can keep ignoring the good solid reasons to believe this and pretend we are just picking on POOR Darth but you are making a fool out of yourself.
September 8th, 2009 at 4:17 pmTundra: “I said just because he’s a bad guy, doesn’t mean EVERYTHING he is accused of regardless of the proof is true.”
OK, but why pick this particular thing. It was in the news. The British government even complained to our State Department at the time that the Bush administration, for political purposes, publicized a secret investigation and blew it up. It was just one of the many outrageous things they did that the media mentioned in passing and then quickly changed the subject.
September 8th, 2009 at 5:01 pm***
#121,
searching for all of those posts
where you condemned dick.
*
i’ll let you know when i find something.
:\
September 8th, 2009 at 5:11 pmJust think, if three years ago these guys had a credible terrorist plot, and some explosives, and some airline tickets, then there might be some logical reason for not being able to bring bottled water to the airport!
Instead, it’s all nonsense and “security theater.”
The alleged plan was to smuggle the peroxide-based liquid explosive TATP and detonators onto nine different planes from four carriers. The myth of binary liquid explosives dies hard.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:24 pmThank you for your sharing.!
September 11th, 2009 at 2:48 pmAfter Cheney hijacked the intelligence effort and precipitated the arrest of the leader (Rauf) in Pakistan: “Mr Rauf’s fate is unclear. After his arrest, he managed to escape from Pakistani custody under suspicious circumstances” estetik cerrah
September 15th, 2009 at 6:02 am