Pawlenty May Invoke The 10th Amendment To Block Minnesotans From Receiving Federal Health Care
Pawlenty May Invoke The 10th Amendment To Block Minnesotans From Receiving Federal Health Care
Yesterday in a conference call with right-wing activists, Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty (R) joined the tenther movement by questioning whether federal health care reform is constitutional. When a caller asked, “I want to know if any of the governors are willing to invoke the 10th Amendment if the health care bill is passed,” Pawlenty replied:
Depending on what the federal government comes out with here, asserting the 10th Amendment might be viable option, but we don’t know the details. As one of the other callers said, we can’t really even get the president to outline what he does or doesn’t support in any detail. So we’ll have to see. I’d say that’s a possibility.
You’re starting to see more governors, including me, and specifically Gov. Perry from Texas, and most Republican governors express concern around these issues and get more aggressive about asserting and bringing up the 10th Amendment. So I think we could see hopefully a resurgence of those claims and maybe even lawsuits if need be.
This tenther argument is increasingly gaining steam with the far right. State lawmakers in both Florida and Georgia have brought up legislation that would allow their states to opt-out of any federal health care system. Even federal lawmakers like Sens. Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Jim DeMint (R-SC) and Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) are saying that health care reform may be unconstitutional.
Tenther claims are far from the mainstream. In their world, landmark federal programs such as Medicare, Social Security, the federal highway system, and rules regulating airplane safety are unconstitutional. In fact, the South “justified both secession and the Civil War on the theory that the Constitution is nothing more than a pact between sovereigns that each state is free to leave at will.”
Perry, whom Pawlenty mentioned as a kindred spirit in the tenther debate, has even raised the possibility that Texas could secede from the union. “There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it,” he said a few months ago. “But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that.” Will Pawlenty also advocate secession for Minnesota?
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This sounds like mere political grandstanding — once health care reform is implemented, there will be a few ugly riots by the citizens of any state blocking their right to get affordable health care. It’s doubtful ANY state would succeed in making a “we don’t need no stinking reform” policy stick.
But since any health care reform probably wouldn’t be implemented for four years, Pawlenty figures he’ll be long gone by that time.
What an assh*le.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:46 amGreat idea Pawlenty! Oh sure, you’ll get the old geezer vote. After all, they get ‘Medicare’ so they don’t give a sh*t. But what about younger people who don’t have that luxary? Good luck with that.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:48 amPawlenty May Invoke The 10th Amendment To Block Minnesotans From Receiving Federal Health Care
– - I am seriously considering a move to Canada. I don’t know this country anymore. Or, maybe I do and that’s the problem.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:48 amIf your gonna do it Pawlenty you have to go all the way, no picking and choosing. No more Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Veteran’s Care, food stamps, SCHIP aid. I’ll bet the people of Minnesota will just LOVE you!
September 11th, 2009 at 10:49 amHe tries that in MN, and he’ll be impeached before he gets the chance to retire. Something about “gross abuse of power”.
The people of MN would just as likely boot his ass to Manitoba than go without Federal programs.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:49 amOh dear all the Medicare and Medicade folks will lose their federal healthcare in Minnesota? What a TOOL!!!!!!! Pawlenty and Bachman Death Panel, who’da thunk it?
September 11th, 2009 at 10:50 amstill fighting the civil war? That is so 19th century.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:50 amWhat about those of us who don’t have that option? Why not stay and help us? Our numbers are growing.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:51 amNow that’s the way to continually lose a state that actually wants health care reform.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:52 amAdd Pawlenty to the list of the Republiklans who has sold their soul to the John Birch Society.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:53 amThis may wind up in the Supreme Court if these grandstanders are actually serious about it (I doubt they’re more serious than any strutting bloviators).
If the SCOTUS actually rules on such a thing in their favor, they’ll probably say that if you reject any federal health care program, you reject all of them on the same basis. Goodbye Medicare. And goodbye votes.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:53 amPawlenty is following the Palin strategy of appealing to the radical right wing. He believes that once he sows up the far right votes he can move back to the center to win moderate votes. His statements will come back and haunt him if he tries to seek higher office. The Dems and his opponents are going to use these stupid comments against him. The Republicans think that by advocating these far right positions are going to resonate with voters in the next elections. They are mistaken; it is axiomatic that people vote their pocketbook and not these other issues.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:54 amand they called Jesse and Al clowns>>>> then who do they have to show>>>>> coleman, batcrap lady,,,, pawlentte
send in the clowns we need more clowns there has to be more clowns.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:54 amFrankly, let them secede. If people in the South agree to one livestyle and people in the north agree to another (more or less, anyway), then whatever. No skin off my back.
I can enjoy the benefits of some of these programs and they can continue down the path they’re on. What do I care anymore?
September 11th, 2009 at 10:55 amIf Republicans lose the battle over Universal Healthcare with a public option and it gets enacted and turns out to be great for millions of American families, will Americans EVER trust the Republican Party again?
We have heard Progressives say that healthcare is Obama’s “waterloo”, but I am wondering if it is more of the Republican Party’s waterloo than Obama’s?
They may have more to lose by being exposed outright, once and for all, as liars and corporate water-carriers.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:55 amIt’s just red meat like abortion and marriage ammendment.
The right was in full control for 6 years and they didn’t defeat abortion rights and they didn’t make being gay illegal.
They never do the things they tell their constituants they will do and that is why I don’t understand why Christains still support them.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am… legislation that would allow their states to opt-out of
any federal health care system.
so, that leaves more for the rest of us???
September 11th, 2009 at 11:02 amIf their 10th Amendment claim were found to be true, it would do away with a federal Tort Reform law also. But, knowing the GOP, they will find a way for tort reform to be OK under the 10th Amendment but not guaranteed health care for Americans.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:02 amWhy are there so many crazy people in this country? I just don’t get it! Has the educational system failed them or is it in-breeding? I find it astounding that there are so very few, true, moderate republicans.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:03 amSo droll to watch castrated “moderates” like Pawlenty cringing and fawning before the thrones of drug addict Limbaugh, alcoholic Beck, and their equally addled followers.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:05 amThe 10th doesn’t apply since Article 2 delegates the authority to Congress to regulate commerce among the staes and provide for the generl welfare of the people. Besides, a few states’ governors tried to block stimulus funding and were overruled by their congress.
If health care was unconstitutional, wouldn’t that be the place to start with your opposition? There would be no reason for any other argument because it would stop there.
Health Care is unconstitutional but ‘pre-emptive war’ isn’t? BULLSHIT!
September 11th, 2009 at 11:06 ampax says:
Why are there so many crazy people in this country? …
F O X .
September 11th, 2009 at 11:06 amPawlenty, like Norm Coleman before him, got himself elected by pretending to be a moderate Republican in a state that is (Bachmann notwithstanding) generally moderate. He has since proven himself to be second rate as a governor, and would have little to no chance of being re-elected. His guiding principle, his only principle, is to get himself elected to something, and so he will continue to flirt with wingnut fantasies like secession to keep himself in play during the primaries, then turn around and put on his moderate face if he actually gets the presidential nomination, since the wingnut faction is nowhere close to a majority. Pawlenty knows there is zero chance of Minnesota doing anything moronic like seceding, since both houses of the state legislature are controlled by Democrats. He is posturing for Fox noise.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:08 amIt seems to me that a system for challenging the constitutionality of things already exists; it’s called the Supreme Court. Surely, the court has already ruled on the limitations of the 10th amendment. Perhaps they think the court has not been stacked in their favor enough? It is idiocy to scream about ‘original intent’ but ignore the mechanism in the original constitution created specifically to address Constitutional issues.
The Constitution clearly spelled out a process: Amend the Constitution or bring a case before the Supreme Court. It is disgusting that the ‘Tenthers’ have decided to jump straight to Secession and Revolution to get what they want. The Constitution was designed to prevent such things.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:11 amI have to laugh at the image of Minnesota and Texas forming a new confederacy.
I always feel a bit of disconnect between my impression of Minnesota as a very practical state and their election of wingnuts like Pawlenty and Bachmann. Even Ventura I could understand as more of a libertarian choice, but Pawlenty?
The adherents of the tenth amendment stand beside the cuckoos who think the income tax is unconstitutional in my book. No amount of logic will sway them to see that the framer’s did envision a role for the federal government in regulation.
Also, one thing I find odd, is that the large corporations who use the Republican party as their water bearer in the U.S. government generally are in favor of federal regulations since they are easier to control at one place rather than fighting battles state to state. I guess they give the stupid Republican masses a little string to rant knowing that the votes will fall in line with the bribes when it comes time.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:12 amSeveral thoughts…along with the other things raised by A Patriotic Anopheles Acting how about turning down farm subsidies? I’m sure the farmers in MN will love you for that.
And where were the Reichwingers when No Child Left Behind was rammed down the throats of the States? How many billions for that worthless program.
It was disclosed yesterday that former MN Senator Norm Coleman has bells palsy. His wife was diagnosed with lyme disease earlier. I assume that he has some form of COBRA or something else to cover ex politicians after they leave office, but it would be interesting to watch him try to get a personal health policy for his family with these new pre-existing illnesses.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:12 amWhat bothers me about both Perry and Pawlenty is they both are forgetting that they SERVE the public, not RULE the public. Do they honestly believe that ALL the citizens in Texas and Minnesota are going to just go blindly along with their decisions? Of course not.
I don’t know about Perry, but Pawlenty is angling for a run as president. Sounding “tough” even though it is stupid is Pawlenty’s ticket to the nomination.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:15 amBilbo makes a terrific point in that most of what the Republics claim to want to do about health care — none of which would do anything about the problem — would actually abrogate states rights. I don’t expect consistency from wingnuts or from sleazy opportunists like Pawlenty but advocating the discredited authority of nullification by the states while simultaneously pushing federal nullification of state tort law and state insurance regulation is pathetic. This will never reach the Supreme Court for this very reason. Republics only like states rights when they lose control of the federal government. They don’t want it written in stone.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:16 amSo Mr. Pawlenty……when will you start rallying your teabagger misfits about stopping their “unconstitutional medicare and social security benefits”….force them to give these up now! Force these misinformed seniors to go out of retirement…get a job and get health insurance on their own!
September 11th, 2009 at 11:18 amPawlenty can forget about running for President.
He’s a Birther.
Scarborough calls out Pawlenty on death panels, comparison to UK health system: “What in this bill” creates death panels?
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200909110004
September 11th, 2009 at 11:20 amDoes a state have the power to deny citizens access to a federal program?
Maybe.
Does the Tenth Amendment justify this?
No.
The last three words of the Amendment say or the people. Which pretty much demolishes the idea that the states would have special powers over the people.
And the 14th Amendment guarantees equal protection under the law.
The argument for denying access to national health care based on the Tenth is the same as asserting a state’s right to allow slavery.
If the Republicans feel they have Constitutional grounds to challenge health care reform, challenge it in the Supreme Court. Get it declared unconstitutional.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:23 amThey might even win with the cabal currently sitting.
But they know they have neither the law on their side nor the numbers.
So they just bellow ‘I want my country back!’
Oh really?
How’d you lose it?
Pawlenty shows his true colors – thoroughly and exhaustively willing to pander to the wackos to promote his presidential ambitions.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:24 amAs a lawyer, he knows perfectly well that the 10th Amendment argument is phony. If he’s not sure, he can check with his wife, the judge.
This should be interesting because if this governor tries to invoke the 10th amendment to back up his blocking the health care form, then he will have the same thing happen to him as what happened to gov Mark Sanford of SC when he tried to block the stimulus. Mark’s own state supreme court and congress over ruled him and allowed the stimulas to move forward. So the same thing will happen to Pawlenty and all the other tenther governors if they try to block health care. There are more people in their states who want health care reform then those who don’t and those governors will know that very quickly if they try to use any of the tenther BS.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:27 amI’m pretty sure the constitution still affords me the right to tell Pawlenty to go fcuk himself.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:27 amMore for the rest of us.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:36 amLiving With Less in the Land of Pawlenty.
As a Minnesotan, seceding to Canada would at least guarantee me health coverage!
Pawlenty is a lying little prick, but that’s not news.
His ‘unallotment’ trick with our State budget moved $7 billion to the next biennium, solving absolutely nothing. This may well be unconstitutional in itself, Timmy.
He’s also a coward. He sends in his budget director or whomever to take shots from the other party while he rants & lies to the media without ever manning up in person.
Pawlenty is like his mullet; bad taste, bad grooming and bad judgment.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:36 amI don’t know what these fringe-appeasers hope to gain from ridiculous rhetoric like this. They will gain the votes of the bigots, the birthers, and all the willfully uninformed today, but I don’t know what they think their long-term advantage will be.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:37 amEvery week, the general public sees one of their spectacles on television, and I seriously doubt whether mature and serious viewers think that this is what they want to be — backwards, narrow-minded, fools.
This would stand up in a court for less than an eyeblink.
The 10th Amendment reserves to states only those rights which are NOT granted by the Constitution to the federal government.
Article 1, Section 8 of the Consitution explicitly authorizes Congress to create spending programs to promote the general welfare, to levy taxes to pay for those programs, and to regulate interstate commerce.
As that power IS granted to Congress by the Constitution, the 10th Amendment simply does not apply.
There are also centuries of SCOTUS rulings on this, all falling on the side of the interpretation (i.e. direct reading) I’ve laid out above. You think this line of legal argument hasn’t already been made in the past to challenge such things as Social Security or Medicare to begin with? Just about everything the federal government does falls under this clause. Either states can’t refuse federal spending, or we’ve effectively all seceded already. And the latter is not the case.
It looks to me like Pawlenty was just tap-dancing there to avoid offending the GOP loony wing.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:38 am1. These claims about the tenth amendment are just silly claims that pander to the radical right. No one should take these statements serious. The only people listening to this crapola are the fools who watch Fox.
2. The health care bill is creating angst among Republicans. They were wrong on Social Security and Medicare. When the bill comes to a vote, they will need to vote up or down and regardless of how they vote, they will have problems with their constituents. If they vote against the bill and they have gauged their constituents sentiment wrong, they will have to fight for reelection. If they vote for the bill, there may be a backlash by the hardcore conservatives in their district. This is the dilemma for the Republicans who would prefer to kill the bill before they are forced to put themselves on the record with their vote. It appears that it is inevitable there will be a health care bill. This is going to create a lot of sleepless nights for some Republicans.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:38 amRE: “We can’t really even get the president to outline what he does or doesn’t support in any detail.”
Maybe that’s because he’s foolishly trying to be bipartisan and work out a compromise. If the GOP is the Party Of No why can’t the Dems just be the Party Of Go? Just do it.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:38 amDidn’t Pawlenty also threaten to block the stimulus funds, which he seems to have taken all the credit for these days?
Smart Minnesotans will stick a reject dildo up his tookus, and that of Michelle
September 11th, 2009 at 11:38 amBachmann.
missmolly,
Perhaps they think that with a SCOTUS decidedly in favor of Republicans, they can actually get them to agree with them.
The SCOTUS is already deciding on whether corporations can donate limitless amounts of money to political campaigns – and they are leaning toward allowing it.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:39 amScaring dumb and uninformed people are what the repugnants do best. Feigning concern for your rights while behind your back doing everything they can to undermine those same rights.
NEWS FLASH! The jig is up!
September 11th, 2009 at 11:43 amI think it’d be great to see Team Tim get their asses handed to them by the SCOTUS.
Go for it, pretty boy.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:45 amEver the opportunist, eh, Timmy? And trying to get into the big leagues by emulating Perry. Damn, that’s ripe.
Both of these idiots are just grandstanding panders. If they don’t already know it, they will be informed before they issue a proclamation of secession, that secession is not recognized as an option under the Constitution. When a territory or other political unit, like the old TX Republic of 1836, joins the Union, it’s in. Period. There is no mechanism for revocation, no lawful mechanism for seccession. Obviously, Congress and the states could rectify that with a Constitutional amendment, but until that happens, there is no method in place. I suppose a state could petition Congress or the President, but who knows where that would go?
But that won’t stop Timmy and Rick from playing to the crowd that wants another Civil War, or some other bit of craziness, or who object to having affordable health care programs and insurance, or who believe any lie coming out of Sarahcuda’s brainless yap, or who think Hawaii isn’t a state yet, or whatever. After all, in the Timmy/Rick playbook, there’s no such thing as bad publicity; the objective is to keep your name in front of the public at all times in as loud and forceful a manner as possible. Anything crazy you might say can always be denied or brushed off as a misunderstanding or attributed to the heat of passion.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:46 amOk let`s see, if these Tenthers secede they will most likely have to privatize everything from the police force,Fire dept,libraries,road and highway work, you name it it will all have to be ptivatized because the tenther states are mostly poor and made up of low income and minority`s so they will not have any cash to pay for any of the above sevices but the white rightees will some cash for these services.Let them all go and secede and then the real America can get on the correct path to porsperity.There goes thier RED Socialism(federal funds).
September 11th, 2009 at 11:53 amNo Federal healthcare, no problem.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:53 amBTW, how about no Medicare for Minnesota seniors?
How about no federal highway funds. Fix your own crumbling bridges. No more money for schools. Is Lake Superior clean enough for you? Have fun with the Mississippi River floods next spring. Hope you don’t have any forest fires. Do you like your beef certified to no have ecoli? Canadians seem pretty nice, so you can do without border security.
I think it’s a great idea! Minnesota Democrats would be very happy about their future prospects. Hopefully all the red state governors will join in too! Conservatives shouldn’t only refuse to participate but also make good on their threats to secede. Let’s not make the same mistake we made in 1861 and try retaining states that are against progress. Imagine the improvement in coverage and outcomes if mostly blue states participated. Conservatives like to talk about eliminating wasteful spending, red state secession would be an easy way for The United States of America to eliminate wasteful spending.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:03 pmThe tenth ammendment states
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Now I’m not saying that they need to leave the union, but he has a point.
We cannot use the constitution to justify our point of view and then trample the other provisions on the way to our goal.
As far as I can tell there is no one provision of the constitution that allows for the restriction of the other provisions.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:20 pmfletc3her says:
I always feel a bit of disconnect between my impression of Minnesota as a very practical state and their election of wingnuts like Pawlenty and Bachmann. Even Ventura I could understand as more of a libertarian choice, but Pawlenty?
As a Minnesotan, I too feel a disconnect when it comes to Pawlenty and Bachmann. But remember that Pawlenty won both of his terms in three-way battles and with less than a majority of the vote each time: 44.4% in 2002 and 46.7% in 2006.
I can’t explain why Bachmann has won elections, except to say that her district is largely “the boonies” and red-neck territory here.
Ventura was always an independent, and I didn’t vote for him–didn’t like him at all. He too won in a close three-way race, with 37.0% of the vote (Norm Coleman had 34.3% of the vote in that race).
September 11th, 2009 at 12:23 pmGood. I hope he does it. Then the Minnesotans can play whoopass on him next election. Or maybe sooner.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:25 pmUnAmerican, scum sucking, brownshirt, jackboot, Fascist, knuckle-dragging, racist, bigoted, neanderthal fcuk heads.
That about covers it.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:26 pmWould it be possible for just Bachman’s district to seccede ?
Seriously though, let’s say they block healthcare on the basis of the 10th (quite a legal stretch, I know. Not to mention I fully agree with above quotes that it is grandstanding to gain prestige).
But let’s say they do block healthcare. Would that mean that other federal funds are also blocked from them as a result ?
September 11th, 2009 at 12:29 pmPawlenty isn’t going to run again for Governor, and he’s probably going to run for president. So he has nothing to fear now from the residents here. And he’s playing to the far right-wing to better his chances during primary season.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:29 pmPatriot76 says:
Now I’m not saying that they need to leave the union, but he has a point.
We cannot use the constitution to justify our point of view and then trample the other provisions on the way to our goal.
As far as I can tell there is no one provision of the constitution that allows for the restriction of the other provisions.
Anyone is free to test their theory about the tenth amendment in the SCOTUS. They won’t because it is a hands down loser. The SCOTUS has given a broad interpretation to the Commerce clause and only pure intrastate activities cannot be regulated by the feds. But how many activities are purely intrastate? Almost none.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:31 pm46. Christopher wiwi,
What a world. Would you forsee the possibility that a string of privatized police forces may be open to corruption ?????
;-)
September 11th, 2009 at 12:31 pmIt would be a laugh if Pawlenty ran for President. I don’t think he would even carry the state of Minnesota, having never won a majority of votes here.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:32 pmTo all the tenther dingbats who have read only the amendments and not the articles, here’s what it says:
“Article 1 …
Section 8 – Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;…”
Can anyone explain how this applies less to health reform than it does to blowing up shit in other countries?
September 11th, 2009 at 12:33 pmI live in Minnesota..Let’s fix Tim up with a nice suit of tar and feathers and show him the way to the state of Oblivion, the state of having lost conscious awareness.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:37 pmI just want to know: What happened to the rational, educated, reasonable Minnesnoter that I grew up in? HTF did they end up electing lunatics like Pawlenty, Bachman, etc.?!?!?
Cheers,
September 11th, 2009 at 12:40 pm#2 P.D. says:
Great idea Pawlenty! Oh sure, you’ll get the old geezer vote. After all, they get ‘Medicare’ so they don’t give a sh*t. But what about younger people who don’t have that luxary? Good luck with that.
Not so fast. If Pawlenty’s ‘theory’ is correct, then Minnesota could and should deny Medicare access as well. Once someone points that out (and gets the message across), the seniors will start to take notice.
Cheers,
September 11th, 2009 at 12:43 pmI simply do not understand Republicans. Isn’t more to life than the almighty dollar? We are the only democratic country that allows its citizens to go bankrupt when illness strikes. We are the only democratic country where people are forced to do without regular preventice exams because they lack health insurance. I lived in England for six years and found their health care system to be a hundred times better than ours — even when real illness struck. I have good health insurance through my employer, but I know that my employer is less competitive because of it. I grew up a Navy brat and received excellent health care from the government and I will soon be 65 and will be on medicare. So, I am not fighting for a government option for myself, but for my neighbors and future generations.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:53 pmActually, I was thinking that the Commerce Clause should shut this bunch up, just like it did the segregationists in the ’60’s. All of the really important cases in civil rights, including the Civil Rights Act were enforced through the Commerce Clause. The School cases were largely reliant on the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. In this case, health insurance affects the commerce between the states by bankrupting companies that do business in interstate commerce. Therefore Congress can regulate it in any manner it deems necessary to rectify the problem. Case closed. Go read your Goddamned Constitutional Law books from law school, idiots. This is the stupidest argument yet. Sarah must have made this one up. Even Betsey wouldn’t try to pawn this off on the wingnuts.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:03 pmPhoto Caption: Welcome to the Bambudda Lounge. I’m Tim and I’ll be here all week. Be sure and tip your waitress.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:03 pmSo Pawlenty really doesn’t want to be president…
September 11th, 2009 at 1:21 pmOne might think the people of Pawlenty’s State had learned his position. Gov. Tim Pawlenty fought the Stimulus Plan and announced he would refuse the money, but then took and money and said it was his idea. Look for the same to happen with the Health Care Plan that will pass.
g
September 11th, 2009 at 1:25 pmWhat’s the matter with Minnesota? It seems like Kansas is overflowing its borders.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:29 pmI too live in the State of Minnesota. Gov. Pawlenty is talking about using the 10th Amendment to block Health Care Reform from coming to Minnesota and it makes me so angry. For one thing, his draconian budget cuts have done so much damage to health and human services in Minnesota. His efforts caused the Minnesota AIDS Project to shut down a fair number of HIV/AIDS testing facilities. In addition, his budget cuts have hurt seniors and public aid in ways that you cannot even imagine. For all it’s worth, Pawlenty is ruthlessly mean. There is no way this guy should be allowed to be the next President. If you thought Bush was bad (and he was) Pawlenty will be worse.
And here is one more example of Pawlenty’s destruction in Minnesota. Due to his most recent budget cuts, as of Nov. 1st if you are a single and/or disabled adult and you loose your job or are in need of financial help to help keep your apartment or electricity, don’t turn to your local Counties for assistance. We found out in July that as of Nov. 1st Hennepin Counties emergency assistance for single and/or disabled adults is gone.
Is this really someone we want as President of the US? I think NOT.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:32 pmI’m in the capital of MN and apparently Timmeh thinks he’s king. He can just do this on his own, he is the legislature. But he tries these things, challenged in court as they are. He didn’t do them when there were more R’s in the capitol.
Fortunately he is booked solid through 2012 for Quixotic campaigning and won’t be back in the state to do anything.
The 2006 election went well except for Bachmann and Pawlenty.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:43 pmActually the 10th amendment talks about rights retained by the states or the people. A state may not have the right to restrict benefits offered to the people by the Federal Government. Pawlenty is just trying to draw attention to his extremely poor chance at the Republican nomination. He is a gray little man with no vision, and little or no attractive qualities that could give him any chance.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:45 pmOh, tenthers, why not work on ACTUAL government INTRUSION against Amendment and statute, i.e. wiretapping and infiltrating church groups working for peace.
But unlawful search and seizure is okay if terrorism exists… as it always has.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:47 pmGrr, still mad. He supports state’s rights so much he shut out all representatives and Minnesotans from the budget and used unallotment, his way.
Everyone buys a ticket for Miami and he flies the plane to Seattle.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:55 pmI just checked the Constitution and it says NOTHING AT ALL about the US Postal Service being allowed to use airplanes for delivering mail; “post roads,” yes, but no airplanes. Using airplanes for mail delivery is, therefore, unconstitutional and a matter for the states only. I do hereby recommend that the postal service bill the states appropriately if and when any state accepts mail delivered to it by airplane (or maybe they could accept delivery by horse and buggy, I’ll have to check on that).
There. I’m trying to sound as stupid as the average Republican. I think I succeeded, actually, but now I’m ashamed of myself — didn’t ever think I could sink so far into the mire.
Oh well.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:02 pmCool, let those states opt out. That should be a cost savings to the country. Let the wing nuts get what they deserve.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:06 pmSorry but not too many Minnesota threads.
Pawlenty and some other boneheads here epitomize the worst way to govern this state, or the best way to make it South Dakota with a Detroit.
Their ceaseless catering to established generations and the ever-threatening crunch of higher state income taxes (seldom above 8%), as if the 3% will ruin them, and remember that’s easier to dodge with investments… it pummels the younger generations that might also B and moan about it but are here for college, children’s education, health, trees and grass (i.e. not Vegas)… and the natives are used to good schools so take them for granted, they don’t compare with Arkansas or Florida.
So everyone graduating is more likely to leave for the coasts or Chicago (maybe Sun Belt). The schools get worse. Rich people are usually no happier with taxes the same or lowered a bit, or maybe they buy a home in Florida. Industries sell less locally. MinnCare gets devastated so more hospital pleas in Minneapolis appear.
I actually like South Dakota but it’s like driving into the 1980s.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:10 pmThat sounds like pretty bad news for the people of the state of MN, doesn’t it ???
September 11th, 2009 at 2:27 pmSomeone is running for Republican Presidential candidate. But to get there, he needs to pull stupid s**t like this and outwingnut the competition. Perry, Pawlenty, and the Wasilla Quitter are going to have to outdo each other on wackiness to appeal to the core rube/stooge base to win their primary in 2012.
By the time it’s over, the ‘winner’s’ platform will be:
(1) Dismantling the federal government
(2) Pre-emptively nuking Iran
(3) Mandatory tithing to Health Insurance Companies
(4) Public execution of gays
(5) Bedroom monitors to protect the rights of fetuses
(6) Abolition of public education
(7) Increasing carbon based energy use
(8) Abolition of all gun control laws
Unfortunately for them, they then get to run (or run away) on their record in the General Election. Either way, they lose.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:33 pmWhat a suprise, and from a non “southern” state too! I hope he and the people who voted for him realize that this means that they won’t be getting any of their federal benefits**gasp Socialism** and they and texas will probably become basically third world countries if this should happen.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:40 pmamish_edison says:
THIS is what the Republican leaders are truly afraid of and why they are literally fighting for their very existence.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:42 pmMinnesotans are already mounting a strong campaign to reform health insurance and health care on the state level. The MN Health Plan (MnHP) would be a single, statewide plan that would cover all Minnesotans for all their medical needs. Under the plan, patients would be able to see the medical providers of their choice when they need care, and their coverage by the health plan would not end when they lose their job or switch to a new employer. Consumers would use the same doctors and medical professionals, the same hospitals and clinics, but all the payments, covering all of the costs, would be made by the MnHP, and everyone would be covered.
The plan would be funded by all Minnesotans, based on the ability to pay, and would cover all health care costs, replacing all premiums currently paid by employees and employers, as well as all co-payments, deductibles, all payments for care by the uninsured or under-insured, and all costs of government health care programs.
The Minnesota Senate Commerce Committee passed the MHP on Tuesday, February 10th, by a 7 – 3 vote.
On January 26, the Senate Health Committee passed the Minnesota Health Plan by a 8 – 5 vote.
The House Health Care and Human Services Policy hearing tabled the plan for next session, but WE ARE CLOSE!
Check it out – http://www.mnhealthplan.org/
September 11th, 2009 at 2:45 pm77. Innocent Bystander,
I’m in the middle of reading “The Family” and am dumbfounded by the similarities of the platforms of the current repubs and the platform of the industry mavens in the 1930s who admired naziism and were activly breaking up labor by violent means.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:49 pmOf course, the 10th states that reserve powers lie with the people as well as the states. So it might be an interesting face-off if the people of MN decide they want to be included in a federal health plan. As far as I know, it’s not up to the governor to decide in any case. For the state to decide it would have to go through the state legislature. The people could speak directly through initiative/referendum.
September 11th, 2009 at 4:04 pmRemember folks, Pawlenty is the guy who refused to sign Franken’s election certificate until after two judicial appeals were concluded. Even though the total was legally finalized at the end of the recount. That strikes me as a possibly illegal dereliction of duty.
.
MapleStreet says:
Would it be possible for just Bachman’s district to seccede ?
If they refuse to fill out their 2010 census, as she has advocated, then that district could secede from existence.
September 11th, 2009 at 4:05 pm@ 46 & 56,
christopher wiwi says: Ok let`s see, if these Tenthers secede they will most likely have to privatize everything from the police force,Fire dept,libraries,road and highway work, you name it it will all have to be ptivatized because the tenther states are mostly poor and made up of low income and minority`s so they will not have any cash to pay for any of the above sevices but the white rightees will some cash for these services.Let them all go and secede and then the real America can get on the correct path to porsperity.There goes thier RED Socialism(federal funds). September 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am
MapleStreet says: 46. Christopher wiwi, What a world. Would you forsee the possibility that a string of privatized police forces may be open to corruption ????? ;-) September 11th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
MapleStreet, it would probably be as corrupt, if not more so, as Mussolini’s Italy, Franco’s Spain, Hitler’s Germany, Pinochet’s Chile, etc. This Neo-Confederacy would resemble any dictatorship with a large component of entrepeneurial corruption.
Chris WW, I think you’re right and wrong. Sure, a lot of stuff would go to the highest bidder, but they’d also declare martial law about a split nanosecond after seccession and they’d have a police state in place and starting to function within a day or so.
The loons that are proposing the tenther and seccession nonsense have a fairly low tolerance for dissent and disputation. The idiots that think they’re going to gain by going along with it are mostly going to wonder where their notion of a nation filled with sturdy yeoman patriots disappeared to, because what they’re going to get is a para-military crackdown on anything that is out of line with the policy and thinking of who-ever seizes control of the government.
September 11th, 2009 at 5:10 pmThe sad fact is that GOoPers from individual states will do everything they can to sabotage anything the Dems actually pass. And let’s not forget the SCOTUS. I fully expect that any Democratic sponsored measure will most likely be challenged in court.
On a personal note, it doesn’t look like the Governor of my home state, Pawlenty, has been spending too much time pallin’ around with morons and religious freaks. He’s always been a tool but it’s another grave disappointment that one who was once considered “moderate” has followed his party to the fringe of insanity.
September 11th, 2009 at 5:12 pmStates Rights. Sorry, Uncle Sammy.
September 11th, 2009 at 5:46 pmYep. T-Paw is such a “state’s rights” advocate that he’s not going to face the humiliation of running a race he can’t win. Maybe he’ll join his old pal Normy in the lobbying industry?
September 11th, 2009 at 6:46 pmWe all know that none of these tenther bozos is actually going to do anything. But isn’t a great thought that as soon as a governor signs an order, legislature passes a law, etc, the federal govenment cuts off all federal funds and payments to the state. Within a few weeks these governors and legislators will be hung by their constituents on the statehouse steps. The constituents will be the ones who egged them on.
Pass the popcorn.
September 11th, 2009 at 6:50 pmJoe Wilson is 100% correct.
Do you really believe that EVER illegal immigrant that goes to a hospital emergency room in the United States will be turned away from health care even if that person doesn’t have his or her own insurance policy or the cash necessary to pay? The law may say no to illegal immigrants, but it is a giant shell game and in the real world health care will not be denied in most cases and taxpaying U.S. citizens will end up paying in the end. And if health care is denied, the media will turn the story into a giant tear jerker. We have, what, an estimated 20M illegals in the USA right now. Use logic, the illegal immigrant question is entirely the fault of the federal government’s failure to monitor USA borders. The problem has been growing for decades. The current president has done nothing in the past 8 months, either. So, he gets no pass.
September 11th, 2009 at 8:20 pmKwsventures-
Don’t forget to bring your passport or birth certificate if you need to use the emergency room. If they refuse to treat you because they can’t establish your place of birth, you’ll understand…right?
September 11th, 2009 at 8:37 pmKeep killin those puppies kws…
I’m sure that some day your wet dream of 0 taxes will come true. 2 bucks and one dead puppy at a time….
September 11th, 2009 at 8:40 pmI think Mr. Pawlenty should concentrate on the infrastructure in MN and keep his business out of national politics.
September 11th, 2009 at 9:36 pm#80–where does Pawlenty stand on this issue?
September 11th, 2009 at 10:57 pmkwsventures says:
You are a liar. You are a moron. You are a punkass troll. Repeating your lies in multiple threads wont make them true it will just expose your abject stupidity to a wider audience. Get help. Your stupidity is so monumental it isnt healthy
September 11th, 2009 at 11:30 pmI have been following Republican Governor Tim Pawlenty’s remarks to the media regarding health care reform. I am a Minnesota Native and I can’t even recognize my own state anymore. I am so disappointed in my fellow native citizens of the state that used to be the DFL party state. I was raised there and never was taught prejudice either. But, this whole new attack on our President reeks of prejudice. Why didn’t anyone stand up and cry “YOU LIE” when GWB took us into Iraq because of WMD? Why are we still spending $1 Billion a month for this war that is not winnable? But, people like the governor of Minnesota will invoke the 10th Amendment to opt out of any federal health care reform bill. I think that is irresponsible. How about the people of his state that want health care reform. Shouldn’t he be representing his constituents?
I just know I’m glad that I don’t live in one of the “fringe” ultra “right wing conservative” states.
September 12th, 2009 at 12:11 amAfter reading some of the posts here, I feel better now that Minnesotans are not swallowing Pawlenty’s idiocy. That heartens me quite a bit. It looks as if he will get booted out of office (I hope) if he continues to go in this direction. He is grandstanding for his bid for the presidency, I fear. He probably thinks if he gets enough of the “fringe” behind him, he can take Obama in 2012. Good Luck Timboy.
September 12th, 2009 at 12:24 am@ 86 kwsmisadventures saith, States Rights. Sorry, Uncle Sammy. September 11th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
What state’s rights? Go read the Bill of Rights, again, and pay close attention. Most of the rights reserved, explicitly, in amendments 1 through 10 are reserved to people or individuals, that is, to citizens. 10 happens to mention states, but also mentions ‘the people’. Pay particular attention to 9.
State’s rights are subsidiary to the rights of citizens. The Bill of Rights sets out a few things states may not do to citizens, and where states come in conflict with the enumerated powers or the Bill of Rights, Federal law or the rights of citizens under federal law take precedence.
I suspect that the founders were well aware that one conundrum that would never be resolved is the fact that the best governance is self governance, and that any government activity should, if possible, be devolved to the lowest possible level, but given the human talent for greed, avarice, and corruption, there always has to be yet another level above any given level of government just to keep the lower ones honest. That seems to be particularly true of state and local (county and municipal) governments. If there’s any government I trust less than the Federal, it’s my state government, and I trust county and city governments even less. The smaller a government entity is, the easier it is for some political or entrepeneurial perv to seize it and use it for his own ends; consider the political machines that have run various and sundry cities over the years; you can see the same effect in state governments.
Don’t kid yourself about “States Rights”. Unless you’re the guy that owns the state, you won’t have any rights once the federal system has been shattered.
And you’re off the mark about Joe Wilson.
September 12th, 2009 at 1:59 amkwsventures says:
Joe Wilson is 100% correct.
About what? The health care bill under consideration will not mandate coverage for undocumented immigrants. This has been confirmed by multiple independent agencies. You can read it in the bill yourself.
You are a liar.
.
kwsventures says:
Do you really believe that EVER illegal immigrant that goes to a hospital emergency room in the United States will be turned away from health care even if that person doesn’t have his or her own insurance policy or the cash necessary to pay?
That’s the case today. Already, right now, they’d have to get emergency care. They wouldn’t be covered under this plan however, just as they are not covered by insurance now.
You are a liar.
You have also posted the identical text in multiple threads. I will continue to post the identical replies debunking your lies in them, so you might as well give up now.
September 12th, 2009 at 2:37 amBecause keeping the citizens away from affordable health care is the compassionate Christian thing to do.
New bumper sticker: The republicans, killing Americans one at a time…
September 12th, 2009 at 11:56 amchristopher wiwi says: Ok let`s see, if these Tenthers secede they will most likely have to privatize everything from the police force,Fire dept,libraries,road and highway work, you name it it will all have to be ptivatized because the tenther states are mostly poor and made up of low income and minority`s so they will not have any cash to pay for any of the above sevices but the white rightees will some cash for these services.Let them all go and secede and then the real America can get on the correct path to porsperity.There goes thier RED Socialism(federal funds). September 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am
September 12th, 2009 at 12:05 pm““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
You had me until you mentioned libraries. The knuckle dragging neanderthals on the right would have no need for any stinkin’ libraries in their new founded idiocracy.
Tim “The Lawyer” Pawlenty ought to give back his law degree. The constitutional justification for federal government regulation of health care is (at least) twofold:
1. The preamble of the Constitution: “We the People of the United States, in Order to …ESTABLISH JUSTICE, (and)…PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE (among other reasons)…do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
2. The Commerce Clause: Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:
“[The Congress shall have power] To regulate commerce with foreign nations, AND AMONG THE SEVERAL STATES, and with the Indian tribes;” but further,
3. The Commerce Clause authority is amplified by the Necessary and Proper Clause, which can be found in Article One, section 8, clause 18: “The Congress shall have Power to make ALL LAWS WHICH SHALL BE NECESSARY AND PROPER FOR CARRYING INTO EXECUTION THE FOREGOING POWERS, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Not to confuse the birthers, tenthers, deathers, teabaggers, and other dead-enders with the facts, but the Constitution is very clear on this issue. They would also be well advised to read the 9th and 14th amendments.
September 12th, 2009 at 1:47 pmJust how does the Gov office plan on PREVENTING people from signing up for federal benefits? What a moron.
September 12th, 2009 at 2:12 pmrdn says:
Just how does the Gov office plan on PREVENTING people from signing up for federal benefits?
Possibly by mobilizing the police and state national guard? Should be interesting to watch him forcibly strip his state’s citizens of their rights though.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:17 amI can’t think of any better way for republicans to fall off the cliff once and for all, or at least for generations, if they would pull a stunt like this. Please, pawlenty, perry, sanford and all the rest of you, pull a tenther. I’m dying to see how you constituents will react.
September 13th, 2009 at 2:18 pmWhat I want to know is how exactly do you draft a constitutional amendment when we still don’t have a bill on the floor of the congress in DC? estetik ameliyatlar
September 16th, 2009 at 9:41 amThank you for your sharing.!
September 16th, 2009 at 10:17 pm