Backed Into A Corner, Boehner Admits That Obama Is Not A Socialist
Backed Into A Corner, Boehner Admits That Obama Is Not A Socialist
RNC Chairman Michael Steele recently sent out a fundraising letter saying that President Obama and Democratic leaders in Congress are attempting a “socialist power grab.” Today on NBC’s Meet the Press, host David Gregory pressed House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) on whether such language was appropriate. Boehner tried to dodge the question, insisting that “you can call it whatever you want,” but the fact is that Obama’s the one scaring the American public. Gregory continued to ask whether Boehner believes Obama is a socialist, to which he finally admitted he doesn’t:
GREGORY: Do you really think the President is a socialist?
BOEHNER: Listen, when you begin to look at how much they want to grow government, you can call it whatever you want, but the fact is —
GREGORY: What do you call it though?
BOEHNER: This is unsustainable. We’re broke.
GREGORY: That’s fine. Do you think the President is a socialist?
BOEHNER: No!
GREGORY: Okay. Because the head of the Republican Party is calling him that.
BOEHNER: Listen, I didn’t call him that, and I’m not going to call him that.
Watch it:
Boehner is lying. He has said that what Obama and Democratic leaders are doing is socialism. From his speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference a few months ago:
Well, the stimulus, the omnibus, the budget — it’s all one big down payment on a new American socialist experiment. … All of these bills seek to replace our economic freedom with the whims and mandates of politicians and bureaucrats.
Basically, Boehner admitted today that all he was doing there was fear-mongering and attempting to scare the public for political gain.
Today on CNN’s State of the Union, Obama responded to these charges from conservative leaders, stating, “You know, I’m amused. I can’t tell you how many foreign leaders who are heads of center-right governments say to me, I don’t understand why people would call you socialist, in my country, you’d be considered a conservative.”
Transcript:
BOEHNER: You add to that, this whole question of health care and the government option and government involvement, and Americans today are getting more news about what’s happening in our government than they’ve ever gotten before. And Americans are genuinely scared to death. Scared to death –
GREGORY: But Leader, don’t they get even more scared when you’ve got the head of the Republican Party sending out an e-mail to challenge the President and Democratic leaders for a socialist power-grab? I mean, is that appropriate conversation? Do you really think the President is a socialist?
BOEHNER: Listen, when you begin to look at how much they want to grow government, you can call it whatever you want, but the fact is —
GREGORY: What do you call it though?
BOEHNER: This is unsustainable. We’re broke.
GREGORY: That’s fine. Do you think the President is a socialist?
BOEHNER: No!
GREGORY: Okay. Because the head of the Republican Party is calling him that.
BOEHNER: Listen, I didn’t call him that, and I’m not going to call him that.
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We need a lot more of the Main Stream Media taking these lying creeps to task. Don’t let them lie anymore!
September 20th, 2009 at 12:45 pmThe Obama is a socialist meme is one of the stupidest the rightwing uses. Only the dumbest most brainwashed of morons could possibly take it seriously. Yet it is spewed here regularly by the brainless trolls
September 20th, 2009 at 12:47 pmBacking a Republican into a corner? Sounds messy.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:47 pmBUSTED. But if you’d have told me David Gregory would ask a tough question of a Republican I wouldn’t have believed it.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:48 pmIt all depends on who you’re speaking in front of doesn’t it boner?
That’s why lying is so hard, you have to keep track of what you told who and when.
Making it harder for you is the internet and digital tv.
We keep track of your lies and you can never say that you didn’t say that……
Are you going to cry now?
September 20th, 2009 at 12:49 pmShayne @ #4: You’re absolutely right, but hopefully this will be the start of a new trend for him.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:50 pmI wish he’d followed up with the same question to Lindsay Graham.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:56 pmSure but is he a fascist? What about a freedom hating nonChristian? Is he the antichrist?
September 20th, 2009 at 12:58 pmSen. “Crybaby” Boner will be licking Lush Limpballs a$$ by Tuesday….same ol’ same ol’.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:59 pmFrom now on, instead of trying to talk some sense into the right wing of this country, maybe we should start grabbing them by their necks and then pushing them up a wall until they cry, “Mommy!” and admit they’re nothing but a bunch of lying sacks of crap?
September 20th, 2009 at 12:59 pmAs more and more of the networks speak up and force right wingers to commit to a position, it will be clear that Foxy Loxey will be left alone as the network of hate encouragers.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:01 pmBOEHNER: This is unsustainable. We’re broke.
And what made us broke? It was unsustainable tax cuts for the wealthy and unsustainable deregulation of the banking industry, coupled with unsustainable spending on the GOP’s “recreational war,” unsustainable spending on good ‘ol boy gov’t contracts, unsustainable spending on the current healthcare system, …
Let’s call it like it is – the GOP in this country is unsustainable.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:02 pmAdd me to the list. When I turned on MTP and saw Boehner and Graham as guests, I just turned it off. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that David Gregory would ask such a question to Boehner.
It’s amazing to me what has transpired on tv. President Obama goes on all these Sunday morning programs to explain, for the 10,000th time why he feels we need reform in this country.
And then boom – the right wingers are brought on to dismantle everything the President has said with misinformation.
It’s no wonder we never get anywhere in this country as far as getting the correct information out there. The media won’t allow it.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:02 pmIt would only work if it’s a prison wall. Otherwise they will run like the cockroaches they are.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:05 pmFox News Title:
September 20th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
***
#15,
Fox News Title:
:)
September 20th, 2009 at 1:15 pmBut, how sustainable was government in the last years of the Clinton administration. At THAT point, Republicans were saying that the biggest danger we faced was running the national debt to zero with surplusses.
AND, the Republican objection to THAT was without a national debt, there would be little reason to issue tax-free government bonds, which is one of the primary ways that wealthy people avoid paying taxes on their income.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:15 pmBoney better start working on his apology to Limbaugh.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:19 pmDear Teabaggers, birthers, deathers, tenthers, etc. ad nauseum, Keep your feet off of our socialized sidewalks and keep your cars off of our socialized streets, roads and freeways.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:20 pmLEAVE JOHNNY BONER ALONE!!!!! YOU’LL MAKE HIM CRY!!!
September 20th, 2009 at 1:23 pmUncle, I hope.
I love that. When has it ever happened in the last 10 years?
September 20th, 2009 at 1:24 pm@ 3. Perry logan says: Backing a Republican into a corner? Sounds messy. September 20th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Yup. they go all wee-wee on your shoe.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:26 pmMy party Boehns Fox News.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:27 pmThat’s the truth and that’s part of our (the liberals) problem with Obama.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:27 pmHouse Republican Leader Boehner, respectfully, sir, YOU LIE!
September 20th, 2009 at 1:28 pmBoehner can’t keep all of his lies and misrepresentations straight. That is a problem for a lot of Republicans who speak first and think later. Eventually, your statements come back and bite you in the behind.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:29 pmBoehner may as well have said:
“Socialist? No, of course President Obama’s not an actual socialist. Don’t know why we started calling him that, but I’m sure it has nothing to do with ’socialism’ being a racist code word that we’ve been irresponsibly throwing around to whip up outrage from nutty, hate-filled consevative teabaggers.”
September 20th, 2009 at 1:35 pmBut, how sustainable was government in the last years of the Clinton administration. At THAT point, Republicans were saying that the biggest danger we faced was running the national debt to zero with surpluses.
Well, Bush sure managed to reverse that trend in a hurry. I mean, gosh, just think of the economic troubles we would be in right now if Bush had continued running budget surpluses and paying off the national debt! We should all get on our knees (which puts our mouth at about the right level) and thank Bush for ushering us into the 21st Century awash in red ink. For it is only with unlimited borrowing can the common man be truly prosperous.
:P
September 20th, 2009 at 1:36 pmBoner may be a fool but he’s not so much an idiot that he thinks he can sustain the moronic charges that the loons to the right of him make. He’s comfortable saying that the President’s policies are socialistic or leading toward socialism, but he knows perfectly well that the only proper Socialist among the elected legislators and the executive is Bernie Sanders and he has to defer to Bernie’s decision to campaign and take his Senate chair as an Independent, so he doesn’t really have anyone that he can call Socialist.
But that will not stop him from continuing to lie about policy and programs. He’s pretty sure, from a reasonable amount of experience, that he can get away with that. Most of the media hacks that interview him don’t have the knowledge or understanding of policy to call him out on that subject.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:38 pmGet in line, Boehner! We’re calling him much worse!
September 20th, 2009 at 1:41 pmI was surprised to hear a challenging question to a repugsniscum from David Gregory — maybe MTP has been listening to our complaints.
BTW, did anyone hear Peggy Noonan accuse Obama’s appearances today as boorish? At first I thought she said “borish” (meaning people weren’t listening any more) but she didn’t take it back even when she was later challenged by Krugman — she DID say “boorish”.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:42 pmI am accustomed to these kinds of comments from her, but this was particularly crazy – and she was a speechwriter!
Boner gets as much press for now back-pedalling his Socialist claim as he got for making it…
And the net result is the repetition of the meme, anyway.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:43 pmYes, Briseadh. And the Bush defecits were primarily caused by tax breaks sold as ‘give the money back to the taxpayers!’ and unnecessary wars which funneled government money to wealthy individuals or flushed it down the portapotty in Iraq. These same people are now screaming about ‘generational theft’.
If only we could get Gregory to pin Boehner down about that!
September 20th, 2009 at 1:45 pmYou can’t even get the Republicans to say that Bush screwed up when he got us into Iraq, let alone the economy. Naturally, the Republicans are trying to pin the whole deficit on Obama and the Dems. The voters need to be reminded about who really racked up most of the deficit including the TARP funds. The MSM should skewer the Republicans every time they blame Obama. When the Republicans are confronted enough, they will stop using that tactic.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:56 pmObama is not a socialist I agree john .
from an interview this morning .
STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.
OBAMA: No. That’s not true, George. The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.
45 million legally mandated new customers for the health insurers doesn’t sound like socialism to me .
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/8323#comments
September 20th, 2009 at 1:57 pmLord knows the media has it’s flaws but, we are starting to see a bit of backlash to the Reichwing lies. Maddow and Olbermann are not quite as lonely or unique in recent weeks.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:58 pm***
now tell us how you really feel
about michelle bachmann, boney.
September 20th, 2009 at 2:00 pm:)
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Well, the stimulus, the omnibus, the budget — it’s all one big down payment on a new American socialist experiment. … All of these bills seek to replace our economic freedom with the whims and mandates of politicians and bureaucrats.
YOU LIE!
September 20th, 2009 at 2:02 pmEishenhower (R) came up with the Interstate Highway System. It’s paid for in tax dollars Is Eishenhower a Socialist Mr. Bonehead?
September 20th, 2009 at 2:03 pmI mean “was Eisenhower a Socialist Mr. Bonehead” in #40.
September 20th, 2009 at 2:04 pmMeanwhile the American taxpayer and their children are responsible to carry the burden of the free marketeers … their bonuses and stock dividends ?
September 20th, 2009 at 2:13 pmIt seems the only people who deserve socialism are the ultra wealthy !
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Peter C says:
I wish he’d followed up with the same question to Lindsay Graham.
did he ask him why he changed his mind about applauding the
president the other night?
i couldn’t watch those two… missed most of the prez there too…
September 20th, 2009 at 2:17 pmcaught him on cbs and abc tho…
I think Keith Olbermann should start his show out tomorrow with: “Fox News backed into a corner by a Boehner!”.
September 20th, 2009 at 2:18 pmWhat Republican mean by ‘Socialist’ really boils down to ‘public’. So, when they say that Democrats are attempting a ‘Socialist power grab’, what they mean is that they are trying to put power back in the hands of the people and take it out of the hands of corporations and wealth. The whole Republican experiment has been an attempt to take previously public assets and give them to wealthy individuals.
September 20th, 2009 at 2:31 pmback to your old tricks eh?
Where do you republicans get these broken crystal balls?
September 20th, 2009 at 2:31 pmBOEHNER:
I call it progress…
… But I see we’re playing with words because they have no meaning, YES?
TORTURE… Just call it something else legal.
LYING… Just call it a misstatement.
CHEATING… Just call it cutting through red tape.
PROFITEERING… Just call it American.
.
September 20th, 2009 at 2:35 pmYou know, freeman, I usually just ignore you but WTF? Do you throw milk out the first of each month just because it’s going to go off in two weeks? How do you live expecting the worst from everyone in every situation?
Suffice to say, your “interpretation” carries about as much weight as Lush Rimjob’s. And, I might add, most objective observers don’t think President Obama will be sent a bill that doesn’t have a public option and he most certainly hasn’t suggested he would sign one.
September 20th, 2009 at 2:36 pm.
When words hold meaning to Boehner, then he’ll start making sense.
When you call someone a “SOCIALIST” is it because you think them NOT?
.
September 20th, 2009 at 2:39 pmSO when will Limbaugh get him to back down? How about a TP pool?
September 20th, 2009 at 2:39 pmGREGORY: Do you really think the President is a socialist?
BOEHNER: Listen, when you begin to look at how much they want to grow government, you can call it whatever you want, but the fact is —
A)Gregory isn’t calling Obama a socialist, the GOP is
B)No. you can’t call “it” whatever you want–you can’t call anything “whatever you want” if you are trying to make a coherent point.
*sigh*
Well done Gregory—I never would have believed it.
But all the exchange does is to show-up Boehner for a few seconds on a Sunday show. He’s not going t go back to his colleagues and tell them to stop calling Obama a socialist.
September 20th, 2009 at 2:44 pmHE’s probably not going to stop calling Obama a socialist either—he’s a RepubliCon!
“Backed Into A Corner, Boehner Admits That Obama Is Not A Socialist”
More of the media need to call out the GOP’s lies. Despite I don’t like the muppet man Gregory as the host of MTP, I am glad that he cornered Boner to expose his lie about Obama being a socialist. Now is Boner going to go in a fetal position and cry in the corner because Gregory exposed his fib?
September 20th, 2009 at 2:46 pmHi freeman…
September 20th, 2009 at 2:54 pmWhy do you think you are currently at -7?
WHAT??? Obama’s NOT a Socialist??? But that’s what you were saying all along!!! YOU LIE!!! I wonder what Boner’s constituents think about this little bombshell? For months the Repugs have called Obama Socialist, Marxist, a Nazi, and NOW Boner says he isn’t? I’m shocked!
September 20th, 2009 at 3:00 pmNo one backs the baby into a corner (my Patrick Swayze shout out).
But seriously, did Boehner start blubbering like a small petulant child like he seems to do all too frequently.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:11 pmIt’s not “government” people don’t like–it’s “Republican governance” that has so failed America that people are fed up with. Americans fully understand it was going to be expensive and time consuming fixing Bush’s very Republican mess. Boehner and the GOP have made it clear they will be of no help at all.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:16 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
So am I but I’m not an idiot. Obama the candidate is now dealing with many people who have an interest in keeping things the way they are.
You blaming Obama is unfair and seems to be basically because you are looking for a reason to attack Obama.
You seem to feel free to discard the fact that Obama is really the only reason that health care reform is even on the table today.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:30 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
John Boehner, another example of poor leadership in the GOP. Boehner never puts forth any constructive plans or ideas, with Boehner, it is always simply to criticize Obama.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:39 pmFreeman is a clown, the President is taking on the entire health care lobby. Get a clue.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:41 pmBoner: Obama is a socialist poopyhead! He IS!! HE IS!!!!! Mommy! David Gregory’s being MEAN to me!!!!! WAHHHHHH!!!
September 20th, 2009 at 3:44 pmThey have nothing left except to predict failure for Obama.
All of their ideas just failed although they still pretend to have the answers.
That is thier problem and it is huge.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:47 pmPffffffffffff. What a relief. He is not a Socialist!!
But hey, he is still Hitler, right?
September 20th, 2009 at 3:51 pmA REMINDER:
http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/2009/09/17/george-bush-supported-single-payer-health-care-plan-iraqi-citizens/
George Bush supported a single payer health care system for the Iraqis. The End.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:54 pmBoner just contradicted himself, yet again. I find it amazing how these guys just flat out lie. For months we have been told Obama is a Socialist, a Marxist and a Nazi. Some Repugs claim he is the anti-Christ! Then they march on MSM and basically deny everything. Unreal.
September 20th, 2009 at 4:03 pmDid you miss my post at #9 which already made the same point?
September 20th, 2009 at 4:13 pmObama is by German standards a fringe right politician.
He would appear to be quite right wing even inside our most conservative party, the Bavaria-only CSU.
Maybe that’s because German conservatives are “socialists” by U.S. standards. They believe in solidarity and in a christian mission to care for each other. A German royalist conservative (Bismarck) introduced social insurances – which are obligatory.
September 20th, 2009 at 4:50 pmI wish you would start spelling this Cheneyhole’s last name correctly – its BONER.
September 20th, 2009 at 4:53 pmOff topic:
Hitler just got word that he was not the winning bidder on eBay to take Sarah Palin out to dinner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIaSf3soBzY
Let me guess, because the right wingers have no knew ideas they’ll start doing these Hitler videos too against Obama! LOL I hope so. Shows how lame the right wing has gotten over time.
September 20th, 2009 at 5:10 pmAt post #9 I spelled it just like you asked. I always spell it that way.
September 20th, 2009 at 5:46 pmIt’s such a daily occurrence to see/hear/watch Repubs/GOP liars deny what they said, change their words, forget everything they said the day before (even minutes before in many cases).
September 20th, 2009 at 5:49 pmThis proves the following:
-they are liars. (It’s always easy to remember the truth– it doesn’t change.)
-they have no clue whatsoever that today’s technology means they are on the record, all the time. And the proof is there to show their dishonesty, ignorance, hatred, racism, & well, stupidity.
Sven Ortmann says:
Maybe that’s because German conservatives are “socialists” by U.S. standards. They believe in solidarity and in a christian mission to care for each other.
____________
Funny… that’s also a perfect description of right wing Christianist types…
September 20th, 2009 at 5:54 pm#70 – Mike Hunt,
Please refer to Cheneyhole as Dick(head Cheneyhole.
September 20th, 2009 at 6:07 pmIsn’t it something that Europeans think Obama’s conservative. I thought it was just us liberals that thought that .
September 20th, 2009 at 6:45 pm@ 74. The Republic of Stupidity says: Sven Ortmann says: Maybe that’s because German conservatives are “socialists” by U.S. standards. They believe in solidarity and in a christian mission to care for each other. Funny… that’s also a perfect description of right wing Christianist types…
September 20th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
In fact, TRoS, the main conservative party in Germany, outside of Bavaria, is the CDU, the Christan Democratic Union; in Bavavia, they’re the CSU, the Christian Social Union. One of the differences between the German conservatives and ours is that the Germans recognize the need for a “social safety net” and actually being Christians, rather than some thug Christianist movement, they also recognize their obligation as their brother’s keeper.
September 20th, 2009 at 6:52 pmI thought Lindsey did the backing into Boner’s corner. Can too much time in the tanning bed compromise brain function?
September 20th, 2009 at 7:07 pm“You lie.”
September 20th, 2009 at 7:40 pm#43 Freeman says:
Allow me to translate …Progressives will just have to get over the public option !
According to ‘every non-Investors Business Daily’ poll that has been conducted over the months since a ‘public option’ was put on the table, 70-75% of ALL those polled have upported and continue to support “the public option”.
Ergo according to Freeman, either 70-75% of Americans must be Progressives, or else freeman thinks that a 2/3rds public majority are just a bunch of WATB losers and he is perfectly okay with a democratic majority being denied the policy that they desire and need.
Freeman clearly doesn’t care for democracy in principle, more clearly he doesn’t care for Obama’s democratically elected government which is championing a ‘public option’ health care plan that will benefit the majority of all political persuasions, not just progressives.
Freeman clearly doesn’t believe in government
“of the People, by the People and for the People”.
Freeman will just have to get over the fact that his minority perspective makes him anti-democratic and anti-Americanm and either STFU or revise his anti-American position (and continue to STFU until he’s learned his lesson about democracy and can demonstrate what he’s learned.
September 20th, 2009 at 7:54 pmBerry may not be a socialist per say but his views follow the same agenda, that is to say he leans toward government control of our lives, and that is what we are against, and up in arms about.
You all can say he is not a socialist all you want, but keep in mind a skunk does not think his kind stinks, and in my mind he is a skunk of the worst kind
September 20th, 2009 at 7:54 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
” I happen to be a proponent of single payer health insurance .” Obama
September 20th, 2009 at 7:54 pm…………
Gee, times are hard when you have to vote down comments made by your own president .
The podesta group recieved nearly 12 million dollars from the health insurance industry . That’s really takin em on .
September 20th, 2009 at 7:59 pmYou guys are great at voting down news articles and Obama’s own speeches . You now support what you were so outraged over when bush did it . My arguments have always remained consistent , your blow in the wind depending on which party is in power .
September 20th, 2009 at 8:04 pmGot principles ?
2STUPID2Bus
You are an ignorant brainwashed moron. I know you THINK you make sense because you regurgitate what you were TOLD to think. It makes sense to YOU because you are stupid. You make a fool out of yourself because you are SO stupid you think WE are as stupid as you. Find out what socialism IS. As for government control of our lives, well you are stupid. You just believe whatever you are told whether it makes sense or not. Socialism is the shiny object screechmonkeys much smarter than you spin in front of you to mesmerize your magpie brain. It is sad how pathetic you are
September 20th, 2009 at 8:05 pmEvery conservative in every industrialized country understands why their healthcare has to be government run. Except here in the USA. Our conservatives are morons. Big difference.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:06 pmThe public option was a compromise to begin with ! Single payer is virtually what Obama campaigned on and was never even offered seriously .Check it out it on the video you voted down because the mans own words are no longer useful to your platform .
September 20th, 2009 at 8:09 pmThis guy can be made to eat his promisaes from FISA on ! He has thrown the most activist segment of the democratic party under the bus !
freeman says:
It clearly was stupid to begin at the compromise position. I dont know why Single payer was eliminated right off the bat.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:12 pmWhy did he broken his promise on FISA ?
September 20th, 2009 at 8:15 pmWhy did he break his promise on signing statements ?
Why is he arguing in court for an expansion of executive power or the right to incarcerate people indefinitely without charges ?
I could go on but suffice it to say that when Bush did these things you were appalled but you now give them a free pass !
THANK YOU EUGENE !!!!!!!!
September 20th, 2009 at 8:16 pm5th estate
September 20th, 2009 at 8:19 pmyou do understand that I want a strong public option but feel as Eugene does that we should never have compromised on single payer in the first place ?
Perhaps before you call me un american you should understand what I said in the first place .
medicare/social security unfunded liability estimated at 58trillion in about 7 years…wanting another entitlement is suicide at the wishing well.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:22 pm5th estate
i was trnslating for the president , whom I disagree with !
From the NY Times this morning :
“As he did during a speech to a joint session of Congress this month, the president spoke favorably of a public insurance option to inject competition into health care, but he did not say it was an essential part of a bill. He urged “folks in my own party” to move beyond that debate and focus on the broader aspects of the health care overhaul.”
September 20th, 2009 at 8:24 pmWhats your take on that statement ?
The reason that single payer was tossed right off the bat is because it isn’t good for corporate America’s obscene profits . The US spends nearly as much as the entire planet combined annually on defence ……. and more than twice as much as the next 14 countries on the list combined and has for decades .told this morning by Obama and I quote the president here :
September 20th, 2009 at 8:31 pm“What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.
………………………………………………..
He’s talking about the people who can’t afford health insurnce for Gods sake !!!
which day? One day you’re ranting like you are here tonight, implying that Obama owes you a health care plan. News flash, he asked congress to bring him one, they are working on I think 5 of them. Obama doesn’t write law.
Stop acting like dems and Obama are just like republicans. Your rants about fisa are being addressed and so will all of them in time.
How old are you that you expect instant gratification for your demands?
Do you think we would be addressing health care at all if a republican had won? How do you think our economy would be doing?
You have not been consistant. Just yesterday you were bragging on how well democrats are doing.
You’re just a clown as pointed out in post #62
September 20th, 2009 at 8:33 pmTo whom it may concern
September 20th, 2009 at 8:36 pm# 83 is a verifiable fact !!!
You vote down facts that don’t agree with your position ? And here I thought the christian right was living in a fantasy world devoid of reality .
If you vote down facts and the presidents own words because they do not support your arguments than I submit you are either disingenuous or foolish .
no entitlements but you have no problem with 10’s of trillions for tax cuts for the already rich and a war for profit, right?
What happened to the party of personal responibility?
September 20th, 2009 at 8:37 pmThe podesta group recieved nearly 12 million dollars from the health insurance industry . That’s really takin em on
So, you should be cheering them on then? And O’Reilly should call the people at TP not insects but Golden Cows and you wouldnt be posting here, right?
September 20th, 2009 at 8:46 pmI applaud what I see as right no matter who does it . Your the cheerleader fred .You have no arguments aside from the fact that whatever the democrats do is better than republicans even if they do the same things .
September 20th, 2009 at 8:46 pmIn that very simple argument you are endlessly consistant .
How is that any different from the religious zealots on the right who won’t allow facts to get in their way .
Don’t bother answering .I’ve already wasted more time on you than your arguments deserve .
jb says:
I thought Lindsey did the backing into Boner’s corner. Can too much time in the tanning bed compromise brain function?
Everything is a lie to repugs. It’s a spray on tan.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:47 pmYou are so full of fiat.
/snick
September 20th, 2009 at 8:49 pmThe Boner has his head up his keester.
When will the Boner renounce his own “socialist” health insurance golden parachute?
What makes him so goddamned special?
All he has done during his career is screw things up with his blind support of criminality and foolishness.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:50 pmWell, you always say they are the same but you can’t seem to show real evidence that they are.
You say they are all bought and paid for. If that’s true then why is our economy turning around, why are corp’s being regulated? Why is fisa being revisiting? ect ect.
As I said before, you want a president that will bow down and obey your demands right now, damn the consequenses and the method.
Guess you are so naive that you actually think Obama will write the health care bill and impose it on the country with his will….
September 20th, 2009 at 8:52 pmXisithrus ,
September 20th, 2009 at 8:55 pmThat doesn’t even make sense .
I’m to the left of most of the posters on this site . I don’t even own a TV .
I want the progressives to shake the tree of the party that takes our vote for granted because as fred ENLESSLY retorts they’re better than the republicans .That will no longer cut it for me or millions of people who voted for the democrats .
Without a strong public option this is merely a give away to the health insurers and the pharmaceutical corporations which largely own BOTH parties !
Just ask the Podesta group .
Fred I can’t help but feel that no matter what facts are presented you will repeat the same boring argument . How about answering a question straight up ?
September 20th, 2009 at 9:00 pmDid Obama promise to renounce signing statements ?
Has Obama handed out billions to large corporations ?
September 20th, 2009 at 9:03 pmDid Obama and only obama open the discourse that is addressing health care reform right now?
We can do this all day long. Simple fact is, more people disagree with your approach. It’s destructive and counterproductive.
All or nothing is not an adult approach.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:05 pmSee, you either lie or your don’t know, I don’t know which but I have plenty of reason to believe you just plain lie.
tarp was passed under bush.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:06 pmHas the defence budget gone down or do we spend as much as nearly the entire world annually on the military ?
September 20th, 2009 at 9:08 pmHow about signing statements fred ?
September 20th, 2009 at 9:09 pmand freeman, as for your pathetic attempt to make something out of signing statements I will just say that everyone except republicans understand that siging statements are useful for clarifying the way bills are meant to be be implimented.
They are not inherently evil. Only bush used them in ways that were and are unconventional.
Next!
Are you going to answer my question. I’ve been asking it of you since this morning and I’ve answered all of your’s.
Is this just one of those deals where you don’t have to hold up your half of the discussion?
September 20th, 2009 at 9:11 pmWithout a strong public option this is merely a give away to the health insurers and the pharmaceutical corporations which largely own BOTH parties.
You want me to stop expressing my opinion for a public option because they are against a public option.
??
September 20th, 2009 at 9:12 pm112 what is it you are missing here . I am vocally in favor of it !!!
September 20th, 2009 at 9:13 pmSo Fred agrees that Obama broke his promise on signing statemnets made as a candidate but is alright with that .
September 20th, 2009 at 9:15 pmIs that correct . Straight up now fred .
You feel similarly about indefinite detention withou a trial fred ?
September 20th, 2009 at 9:17 pmCrickets chirping
September 20th, 2009 at 9:21 pmhere idiot:
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/03/19/obamas-first-signing-statement/
and:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/03/obama_issues_si.html
Nothing more until you answer my question troll.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:24 pmYour right fred I am not the best spokesperson for Obama’s economic policies , so I’ll allow Paul Krugman to answer you
September 20th, 2009 at 9:25 pmhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/29/krugman-slams-obama-plan_n_162239.html
freeman, coward.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:30 pmThe AMA doesn’t agree with Obama either .This video from the young turks expresses my opinion .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UzQqvJ4dPk&feature=fvw
September 20th, 2009 at 9:30 pmFred do you really need to call me names because we don’t agree .. Do you do that when you confront disagreements in person or do you attack the people you disagree with physically ?
September 20th, 2009 at 9:32 pmFred:
There are not enough trees to grow the money….not enough ‘rich people’ to rob to pay for Universal Health Care, Medicare and Social Security…will not happen.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:33 pmNow how about indefinite detention without trial !!!
September 20th, 2009 at 9:33 pmfreeman, coward.
answer my question pussy.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:33 pmcurettage, thanks for your imput. Properly dismissed as acceptable or true.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:34 pmNYTIMES on state secrets Obama is sounding like Bush .
September 20th, 2009 at 9:35 pmhttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/us/10torture.html?_r=2&fta=y
Fred 118 Krugman .
September 20th, 2009 at 9:38 pmhey freeman, who’s really playing at your link.
probably eric clapton since you get things confused you probably think it’s you.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:38 pmfreeman, coward. 59 you owe an anser to my question you dishonest troll.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:42 pmFrom the ACLU
September 20th, 2009 at 9:42 pmWASHINGTON – The National Security Agency (NSA) has been intercepting Americans’ emails and phone calls in recent months to an extent that exceeded even the overbroad limits permitted under the controversial spying legislation passed last summer. According to the New York Times, the NSA’s “overcollection” of American’ communications has been “significant and systemic.”
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/39386prs20090416.html
No problem, Fred….entitilement spending is fast approaching 66% of the Federal budget…CBO scores this Health reform effort as adding ANOTHER 12% or more….military spending is a gnat’s ass compared to these expenditures.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:45 pmIsn’t there a bullshit art gallery in need of an acoustic guitar player and some kids with goofy names?
September 20th, 2009 at 9:45 pmdixie blood says:
Did you miss my post at #9 which already made the same point?
September 20th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Yep. Sorry.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:48 pmYou don’t trust a nobel peace prise winners take on Obama’s economic policies ? Oh sorry how was I to know that 59 was the question ?I’ll do my best Fred
September 20th, 2009 at 9:51 pmRemember peak oil and the invasion of Iraq ? The oil corporation controlled the bush foreign policy agenda .
The US is the only industrialized first world nation that doesn’t have health care that works for it’s citizens . Just like the oil corporations knew what they needed the insurance and pharmaceutical industries knew they’re day was coming . The citizens of the US would demand it . So they co opted the inevitable and crafted the bill they’re trying to pawn of on the American public … not single payer which Obama campaigned on … and hopefully a VERY weak public option if any .
So you’re just a liar? I notice you don’t provide any proof so:
http://www.whitcam.com/research/archives/332
September 20th, 2009 at 9:52 pmhttp://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm
I have to do dinner now , my wife , whom I fear more than you ,is getting pissed at me from the dinning room !
September 20th, 2009 at 9:52 pmfreeman, the question is simple. Who would be fighing for health care reform if Obama was not doing it.
It’s a real simple question and you seem to avoid it. Why?
September 20th, 2009 at 9:54 pmgo ahead and tuck your tail between your legs and crawl away. I expected as much.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:55 pmThe proof is in the CBO analysis, Fred….(Congressional Budget Office), simple math…google and check it out.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:58 pmCheck it out yourself. If you read it you will be proven to be wrong…..
When have you guys been right about anything? Examples?
September 20th, 2009 at 10:01 pmfreeman says:
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
——————————————————————————–
Sounds like the NY Times agree’s with my take on it.
Actually, it sounds to me like the NY Times is just reporting the facts and what the president said, and not making any judgment call at all.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/21/health/policy/21obama.html
freeman says:
——————————————————————————–
You guys are great at voting down news articles and Obama’s own speeches .
Actually, I’m pretty sure it’s not Obama’s comments that are getting voted down, but *your* comments that you add to them.
freeman says:
——————————————————————————–
To whom it may concern
# 83 is a verifiable fact !!!
You vote down facts that don’t agree with your position ?
Okay, I tried googling the “Podesta receives $12 million from health care” and all I could find were *your* comments at other places stating this as “fact”. Where’s your source, other than yourself? The article you listed at the other sites is pretty unclear where it gets its information.
At most, I could find reference to $2 million for last year, which really is peanuts when talking about stuff like this.
http://stateofthedivision.blogspot.com/2009/04/blue-lobbying-goes-green-podesta-group.html
/sigh. I’d go on addressing freeman’s “concerns” but something wrong with my laptop making this thing take like, 100 times longer than it should.
September 20th, 2009 at 10:08 pm….Heritage Foundation is also a great source for information re: government spending & tax practices.
September 20th, 2009 at 10:14 pmThe lobbying firm winner is Patton Boggs, which took home $18.5 million in the first half of 2009 in revenues, Politico reports. The Podesta Group, run by Tony Podesta — brother to Obama transition team head John Podesta — took $11.6 million (Abrahamson, 7/20).
September 20th, 2009 at 10:16 pmhttp://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2009/July/21/Money.aspx
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25194.html
September 20th, 2009 at 10:17 pmNo opoinion expressed in the above 2 posts . If the figures are wrong you’ll have to take it up with the authors.
September 20th, 2009 at 10:19 pmI wonder when America reached the point where the majority of Americans stopped paying attention to what the Republicans are saying.
You can only spout so much propaganda before people realize you are just lying and trying to tear the country apart.
September 20th, 2009 at 10:20 pmfreeman:
September 20th, 2009 at 10:20 pmIts funny how someone goes to Washington with modest means and ends up flush with cash, a few years later, uh?
The US is the only industrialized first world nation that doesn’t have health care that works for it’s citizens . Just like the oil corporations knew what they needed ,the insurance and pharmaceutical industries knew they’re day was coming . The citizens of the US would demand it . So they co opted the inevitable and crafted the bill they’re trying to pawn of on the American public … not single payer which Obama campaigned on … and hopefully a VERY weak public option if any .
September 20th, 2009 at 10:22 pmWhy doesn’t Obama just come out and say he wants what he campaigned on single payer ?
September 20th, 2009 at 10:25 pmWhy doesn’t he insist on at least a strong public option !
??????????
freeman: “Single payer is virtually what Obama campaigned on and was never even offered seriously .”
Bullcrap. Obama didn’t support single-payer, that’s a major reason why I for one didn’t vote for him in the Primaries.
“Virtually” is your construct.
The vast majority here at TP knows damn well what Obama positions were during the campaign and he was widely criticized for his conservatism on health care reform and DADT and on his bipartisanship–and he is still being criticized for all that.
Who did YOU vote for? What have YOU got to offer, apart from superciliousness?
Let me guess, you voted for Ayn Rand in drag, Ron Paul. Yes?
Hanging off the coattails of the GOP for years, cast out utterly by the GOP and the 2008 election, hanging your hope on the fantasy that you can still be included by the mere resemblance of the words “libertarian” and “liberal”?
Or are you just some self-absorbed purist, who knows all?
“freeman” .
September 20th, 2009 at 10:26 pmVoting down statistics you don’t like again @ 143 and 144 ? I didn’t have any hand in writing them . Intellectual honesty too much democracy for you ?
September 20th, 2009 at 10:29 pmThe Peoples House is filled with money changers .
I’m a fool but thats besides the point . Do you support a strong public option 5th ?
September 20th, 2009 at 10:30 pmI do .
Without ATLEAST a strong public option there is no health reform . There is just 45 million new legally mandated customers for the insurance industry .
September 20th, 2009 at 10:34 pmFor some reason, I get RNC literature and push-polls on a regular basis. I should have saved them to re-type here. The wording is FRIGHTENING. Roughly, (paraphrased), “Should Republicans stop Obama if he tries to legalize burglary, vandalism, and the murder of your sainted grandmother?”
September 20th, 2009 at 10:34 pmI offer that a small fraction of our annual military budget could fund health care .
September 20th, 2009 at 10:35 pmEngland is starting to privatize some of their health system, Canada is considering the same, they cannot keep up with the demand without unrealistic waits for treatments and rationed care…people in the U.S. are content with their health plans…cost is another problem. Cost shifting, because of Medicare reimbursement tables, is causing private plans to make up the difference, as care providers charge them more for treatments. Medicare is THE largest insurance carrier in the country…how do you compete with entity that will pay only 65% of what it is billed?
September 20th, 2009 at 10:35 pmfred:
If Obama wants to save money in the health care system and create jobs, why hasn’t he personally fired all the doctors and nurses who don;t have American birth certificates and given the jobs to all the people who lost their jobs since Obama took over the White House?
As a free man whose wife is pissed at him, I’m just asking….
:D
September 20th, 2009 at 10:39 pmShows how little you know about a complex problem coward and liar. Thought you said you had to run when you were losing earlier?
September 20th, 2009 at 10:40 pmListen to Obama’s rhetoric , ” I happen to be a proponent of single payer health care.” thats a direct quote and here’s the man saying it .
September 20th, 2009 at 10:40 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE
You make FOX new look good by comparison . LOL
September 20th, 2009 at 10:45 pmmore lies. They are privatizing some hospitals. not thier health care sytem.
If you had an ounce of integrity you would cite credible sources for your “facts”.
September 20th, 2009 at 10:46 pmDidn’t I actually read here that health care reform doesn’t even carry the price tag of bushes tax cuts for the wealthy ?
September 20th, 2009 at 10:46 pmFreeman:
Is it YOUR wife that’s pissed or 5th’s??
September 20th, 2009 at 10:48 pmI’am confused
What childlike mind turns “I happen to be a proponant” into “I promise or I hope to die”?
Answer my question coward. Who would be the champion of health care if Obama wasn’t doing it?
September 20th, 2009 at 10:48 pmfreeman says:
Listen to Obama’s rhetoric , ” I happen to be a proponent of single payer health care.”
September 20th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
So? You say that like it’s a bad thing.
Aren’t you the one whose family is on a state-funded medical program in Washington state?
September 20th, 2009 at 10:54 pmThe health insurance industry and the pharmaceutical corporations who own his administration .
September 20th, 2009 at 10:55 pmThey’ll get a sweet heart deal and 45 million new customers .
Best government money can buy !
Fred:
September 20th, 2009 at 10:58 pmre: post161
Fred, Hospitals are part of the system….
You’re losing it freeman. Earlier you blamed tarp on Obama. Remember?
September 20th, 2009 at 10:59 pmI don’t say it like it’s a bad thing ! I think it’s the only truly democratic action that could have any meaning in the face of so much greed .
September 20th, 2009 at 10:59 pmBut Obama is no more serious on the public option , which to actual progressives and there are millions of them ,was already a compromise to begin with .
I support a real public option in lieu of single payer as does the progressive caucus .
I never used the word tarp at all freed your debating your self again .
September 20th, 2009 at 11:00 pmcurettage says:
BALONEY. There are private medical caregivers available for those with the means but neither Britain NOR Canada are backing off their comittment to public healthcare or nationalized healthcare. The man who brought it to Canada was recently voted the most popular Canadian EVER. Any politician in Britain who talked about privitizing healthcare would be lynched. Your talking points are nonsense
September 20th, 2009 at 11:01 pmfreeman says:
I support a real public option in lieu of single payer as does the progressive caucus .
September 20th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
As does President Obama.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:01 pmSo how about it Fred has Obama violated his pledge never to use signing statement and did he do it in such a way that it is actually the same as bush did according to the video from the young turks above ?
September 20th, 2009 at 11:02 pmno you don’t freeman, you pretend to. While out of the other side of your mouth you condemn the only person to go to battle to try to fix the problem.
real progressives want progress but understand the obstacles. You are a child who wants instant gratification or you will be mad at mommy.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:02 pmDid you read the article from the times that I posted above zooey ? They seem to indicate that he gave it little more than lip service and concluded he would sign a bill without it .
September 20th, 2009 at 11:04 pmNow you’re just whining. I proved to you that Obama never pledged any such thing. He pledged not to use it un-constitutionally. You are a liar.
The post is 117
September 20th, 2009 at 11:04 pmfreeman: I’m a fool but thats besides the point . Do you support a strong public option 5th ?
I do .
A single-payer system that provided universal basic emergency and preventative health care for all to which an oversight organization can be held accountable by the public that pays for it would be my ideal. The “public option” IMHO should be a private system providing medical services that in general the publicly accountable system need not and should not accommodate.
The above essentially describes every system used by every major wealthy, industrialized democracy, except America.
FYU I have experience of such a system, my whole family has.
I have spent much the same amount of time under the American health for-profit system and the two systems simply do not compare, especially with regard to the value to the taxpayer.
(I’d add that in my experience US hospital medical staff, though technically highly trained, are abused in the hours they have to work in ER, which can result poor care and costly mistakes).
In lieu of universal health care, I support a public option that relieves the immediate cost of emergency and preventative health care to those who otherwise can least afford it under the current system–such as any low-wage earner injured or fallen-ill NOT “on the job” who then has to weigh the cost of care versus not showing up for work so as to get treatment and therefore losing wages, further exacerbating the impact of the cost of medical attention.
You were a fool? Does that mean you voted for a candidate that campaigned AGAINST expanding health care coverage and reducing the expense of the extant for-profit system that served shareholders and its executives before serving its patients?
If that;s the cade then it hardly behoove you to lecture others here on their supposed naivety in voting for Obama, as you have done.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:07 pmfreeman says:
They seem to indicate that he gave it little more than lip service and concluded he would sign a bill without it .
September 20th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
They can “indicate” anything they want. I’ll go with what Obama is saying now — since he heard (and listened) to how his base feels about the public option.
You’re just here to piss and moan, as usual, and complain about the butterflies fluttering inside your brain case.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:07 pmdishonest semantics. You used:
post #106
You lie.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:09 pmzooey
September 20th, 2009 at 11:10 pmFrom the Times
“As he did during a speech to a joint session of Congress this month, the president spoke favorably of a public insurance option to inject competition into health care, but he did not say it was an essential part of a bill. He urged “folks in my own party” to move beyond that debate and focus on the broader aspects of the health care overhaul.”
Do I have to transcribe this video for you bacause you refuse to watch it fred ? It says that Obama is using signing statements in the same way as bush did .
September 20th, 2009 at 11:13 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UzQqvJ4dPk&feature=fvw
You’re utube accusation carries just about weight as your accusations here tonight, none.
Anyone can say anything. That doesn’t make it true. Prove it with facts. I dare you.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:16 pmObama said this morning
“Everybody’s gonna have to give some in order to get something done,” Mr. Obama said, speaking on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” He added, “We’ve got to get past some of these ideological arguments to actually make something happen.”
Well progressives have given up something on the health reform ! IT”S CALLED SINGLE PAYER !!!!!!
September 20th, 2009 at 11:17 pmOn Thursday, news came out that Treasury officials are planning a second bank bailout — one that could cost another $1 to $2 trillion.
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/29/krugman-slams-obama-plan_n_162239.html
September 20th, 2009 at 11:19 pmfreeman, you’re just along for the ride. When this is over maybe you can come here and apologize because things are so much better than they are now, even if you don’t get everything you want right now.
goodnight little man. I know your picture shows you to be pretty mature but your posts reveal the real you.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:19 pmQuestion: what happens if you lose vast amounts of other people’s money? Answer: you get a big gift from the federal government — but the president says some very harsh things about you before forking over the cash.
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/02/krugman-obama-preparing-m_n_163087.html
September 20th, 2009 at 11:22 pmeugenedeb:
September 20th, 2009 at 11:24 pmYou mean that some Brits are more equal than others? Look, the idea that the government can provide quality health care in a collective, ‘one size fits all’ manner, is nonsense. Treatments ARE denied or unreasonably scheduled, because of cost and demand, that lives are put in jeopardy. The public option will ultimatly become the only game in town…(except for a privileged few).
# 180 freeman says: “He [Obama] urged “folks in my own party” to move beyond that debate and focus on the broader aspects of the health care overhaul.”
Indeed he did. ANd I for one yelled at the TV when he said that. The public option is KEY to reducing the cost of health care, precisely because it would create a degree of competition for the Insurance Industry to either lower prices or get the hell out of the “low end’ of the market. ‘
But why the hell would he say that? Perhaps becuase he wanted to de-emphasize the public option to misdirect the opposition. Maybe? It;s called politics.
If you don’t trust Obama on this issue, there’s plenty of sound reason not to do so. But whilst you you claim you support the public option, you constantly complain about the only person who has proposed it and the only person who can SIGN IT INTO LAW!
So what’s your problem? Where are your complaints about Max Baucus, for example? Ans if you are so pro-public option, why are you pissing all over the rest of the TP community who are ALSO for the public option?
September 20th, 2009 at 11:25 pmSay the bully who insults people he disagrees and calls them names and insults in lieu of an actual argument .
September 20th, 2009 at 11:26 pmliars cowards troll pussy … yeah very mature .
You have some major anger issues .
Why don’t you just refute the nobel peace prize winning economist opinions ?
September 20th, 2009 at 11:27 pmBecause I’m an anti american republican troll right ?
September 20th, 2009 at 11:28 pmThe only reason the public option is on the table at all is because the progressive caucus has threatened to kill anything else in the house lacking it .
September 20th, 2009 at 11:31 pmI APPLAUD !!!
curettage says:
Bunk you are spewing talking points they can and DO provide quality healhcare and HAVE since the end of WW2. NO ONE in Britian dies of lack of access to healthcare like tens of thousands do in the US per year. There are waits for non essential procedures just like in the US. The difference is that in the US if you dont have the means your wait for non essential care is FOREVER. It will NEVER happen. So if you are RICH you can go to a private hospital and get it quicker not necessarily better you just dont have to wait for a hip replacement or a hernia operation
September 20th, 2009 at 11:31 pmfreeman says:
Do I have to transcribe this video for you bacause you refuse to watch it fred ? It says that Obama is using signing statements in the same way as bush did
I heard Cenk say that Obama was “getting dangerously close to Bush territory”, and while I understand his argument, I think he was over-reacting a bit.
What Obama said was that everything else about the bill was fine, but the parts that direct how he would exercise his foreign policy authority may interfere with his constitutional authority to determine foreign policy, and that he would not follow those parts.
Maybe Cenk was right and that Obama should have vetoed the bill if he didn’t like what it said, but I disagree. I believe that if Congress sued Obama to get him to follow those parts of the bill that Obama objected to, the courts would side with Obama. By signing the bill into law despite these objections, the rest of the law still goes into effect.
Bush, on the other hand, would use his signing statements to directly say he would do the opposite of what the law said. That was unconstitutional of him, and I don’t think that Obama went that far.
But I do agree that he was getting “dangerously close” to Bush territory.
And I hope you note the fact that not all liberals agree on everything.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:35 pm188
September 20th, 2009 at 11:40 pmyeah its the 16 dimensional chess defense right .
He really only is making a head feint when he argues for expanded presidential powers , greater secrecy , indefinite detention ,permanent occupation , expanded wars and the fact that he would sign a bill without a public option after campaigning on single payer principles that would hand 45 million new customers to the insurance industry .
Obama in his own word about the uninsured :
STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.
OBAMA: No. That’s not true, George. The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.”
This is how he speaks to those without enough money to pay health insurance but whose children are expected to shore up wall street bonuses and corruption and the wealthy’s stock dividends !
September 20th, 2009 at 11:46 pmHow much defence do we need to pay for . Do we need to expand the military budget when we have the entire planet outgunned a 1000 to 1 ?
September 20th, 2009 at 11:50 pmMaybe the Podesta group should give the 12 million dollars it recieved from the health insurers to the orphans in afghanistan and Iraq ?
Definitely a transparent transition .
And I’m naive ?
September 20th, 2009 at 11:51 pmeugenedeb:
September 20th, 2009 at 11:51 pmThe AMA reported last June that 53,000 foreign nationals from Europe and Canada sought medical treatments in the United States in 2008…procedures including advanced stage cancer treatments not readily available in their countries, urgently needed cardio/pulmonary surgeries, and dialysis treatments. These do not sound like ‘non essential procedures’.
Really according to Fred all democrats are exactly the same and beyond scrutiny .
September 20th, 2009 at 11:55 pmI believe Cenk went on to say and I absolutely agree that he should veto the bill if he doesn’t agree with it . It’s what the constitution says .
This isn’t a line item veto because thats illegal !
#187 curettage says: Look, the idea that the government can provide quality health care in a collective, ‘one size fits all’ manner, is nonsense. Treatments ARE denied or unreasonably scheduled, because of cost and demand, that lives are put in jeopardy.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
I grew up in the UK. My 13 year old brother needed heart surgery–there was no waiting, there was no $200,000 bill for my parents and no bills for his lifetime’s worth of annual checkups.
I spent two days in a coma from a fractured skull. After I woke up and felt fine I was still kept for a week for observation.Again no bill.
A friends of mine’s lung collapsed–it was due to a pre-existing condition which a typical US health-insurance could use to deny coverage. He still had one perfectly good lung, and could still walk about, why not make him wait? He didn’t have to wait and his parents didn’t get billed thousands of dollars for drugs and surgery either.
People who can wait, AFTER THEY’VE BEEN EXAMINED, can wait.
I nearly died in the Bellevue Hospital Outpatient clinic whilst waiting for any nurse to even notice me, because I didn’t have the health insurance that would get me noticed.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:56 pm5th:
September 20th, 2009 at 11:59 pmsee post: 199
Oh were defending signing statements now Wayne ? I believe Obama has more than one signing statement , you okay with those as well ?
September 20th, 2009 at 11:59 pmHow do you feel about indefinite detention without trial ?
freeman’s just a child looking for a fight.
He arms himself with just enough info to pick a fight and when he wears one person out with his childishness, he picks a fight with the next person that comes along.
September 21st, 2009 at 12:02 amI never defended all signing statements, freeman, so don’t pull that crap on me.
September 21st, 2009 at 12:08 amActually I have always found Waynes arguments compelling and well thought out .He generally refrains from insults ,name calling , mischaracterizations , condescension and bullying .
September 21st, 2009 at 12:25 amThe general incivility hostility and intolerance to differing opinions here is beyond the pale .
Wayne if my last reply is too cheeky I apologize .
Buenos noches y adios .
Otro vez Hermano Wayne ,
September 21st, 2009 at 12:35 amDisculpe amigo soy consado . Asta pronto .necesito a voy a cama ahora. Chao .
curettage says:
The TREAT Cancer in Europe. No one disputed we have as good a quality catastrophic care as anywhere in the world. IF you have the dough Sloan Kettering or Johns Hopkins may be the best in the world. However YOU arent going there. I question those numbers but still we are talking people with money going where they think they can get the best care and they can afford it. One of the REASONS we have such good catastrophic care is it has the highest profit margin and one of the reasons so many DIE in the US for LACK of access to healthcare is we dont give preventative care so they can make their money off of catastrophic care as the people DIE. So you dont really have a point. Yes Canada and England DO prioritize cancer treatment. Yes they DO cancer treatment. We may do it better. IF I were wealthy I would certainly try the US too. What we DONT have is working class people leaving THEIR country to come here because we would offer THEM better care. We wouldnt. They couldnt afford the best care.
September 21st, 2009 at 12:52 amI wonder how many of those thousands came here for COSMETIC surgery? Which we also lead the world in.
September 21st, 2009 at 12:55 amWhy do the cons keep saying the u.s. is broke and can’t afford anything?
September 21st, 2009 at 6:09 amThey are the ones who looted the u.s. and a good part of the world the last 8 years.
Is reality that far out of reach for them?
There are many models throughout the world of uni health care in place and guess what? The government remains the same. Duh!
Know Why? Where all these people when we were sent to a unnecessary war, where were all these people when our life saving were going broke, where were all these people when the Bush Administration was Bailing out Banks and not Main Street and Home Owners, where were all these people when my Mother insurance went up $80 a month. This didn’t just happen, HOW THEY TRY FORGET SO FAST THIS HAPPEN ON THEIR ADMINISTRATION WATCH, and lets not forget again that this included a war that was not paid for. I’m mad as Hell because people and members of the last administration FORGOT IT WAS THEM, now when it’s time to fix it they wash their hands of it and just say oh NO we aren’t getting involved or the Democrat’s Have the House…Well let me tell you IT’S NONE OF YOUR HOUSE ITS OUR HOUSE AND YOU CAN BE EVICTED! I just like to say I glad to be part of a family where America and Americans come before the next election. And where we answer the call of ‘ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY”. FIRST!
THE ARMED FORCES!
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL MY COMRADES EVERYWHERE!
And buy the why what the heck is this about?
Values Voter Debate: Why Should God Bless America?
September 21st, 2009 at 10:07 amhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X77R_prkCkg
No Mr Boehner, this [but the fact is that Obama’s the one scaring the American public] is just one more blatant lie by the GOP, nothing more.
September 21st, 2009 at 11:24 amThe real fact is Fox news, right wing radio and YOU are the ones trying to scare the American public.
Seems pretty socialist to me–flinging $700 billion at the neediest among us, Wall Streeters and bankers who might have had to forgo, oh, multimillion dollar bonuses. As Gore Vidal said, “America, socialism for the rich, free enterprise for the poor.”
September 21st, 2009 at 2:29 pmThe Corporate Bosses at General Electric will be reminding that sycophantic Rethug tool Gregory that he is never make a Rethug look bad.
He slipped. He forgot the Corporate line.
Stay away from Meet the Press.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:03 amBoehner will reclaim his bones tomorrow by accusing Obama of murdering his grandmother with a Soviet hammer and sickle he obtained from Auschwitz. estetik
September 25th, 2009 at 8:42 amFinally he admitted that Obama is NOT a “socialist”! I wonder when other conservatives like Rush, Beck, etc will also come out and admit that they lied to the American people.
September 25th, 2009 at 1:36 pm