DeMint Defiantly Leads GOP Delegation To Meet With Illegitimate Honduran Post-Coup Government
DeMint Defiantly Leads GOP Delegation To Meet With Illegitimate Honduran Post-Coup Government
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) has announced that he will be visiting Honduras today to meet with the de facto regime of acting Honduran President Roberto Micheletti in sheer defiance of the position taken by the US government and international community. Not a single nation has recognized Micheletti’s government, but Washington Note’s Steve Clemons explains that DeMint is intent on taking Honduran matters into his own hands:
Jim DeMint is acting on behalf of, in cahoots with, and against the foreign policy of the United States of America in encouraging post-coup Honduran government officials defy the United States. He is encouraging a political leadership which has no legitimacy and which not recognized by other democracies in the region — while the ousted President makes cell phone UN General Assembly statements from a couch-bed in the Brazilian Embassy in Tegucigalpa.
The Logan Act forbids “unauthorized citizens” from negotiating with foreign governments. In a 1936 Supreme Court ruling, Justice Sutherland wrote that “the President alone has the power” and “the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it.”
Since former Honduran President Manuel Zelaya was seized by the military at gunpoint and exiled in his pajamas back in June, the Obama administration — together with the United Nations, European Nations, and the Organization of American States — has collectively addressed the delicate political situation in Honduras by putting pressure on Micheletti’s government to reach a peaceful and democratic solution. So far, the US has cut all non-humanitarian aid to the de facto government and revoked the visas of all civilian and military officials who backed the June 28 coup. The Obama administration is also making a deliberate effort to repair critical relations with Latin America by reversing Washington’s “historic tendency” of welcoming and backing coups waged against democratically-elected leaders, such as Zelaya, who are critical of the U.S.
Senate Foreign Relations Chairman John Kerry (D-MA) attempted to block approval of DeMint’s self-described “fact-finding trip,” citing the defiant role DeMint has taken in attempting to alter US policy on Honduras by brazenly blocking the confirmations of Arturo Valenzuela, Obama’s nominee to be assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs, and Thomas A. Shannon Jr., the nominee to be ambassador to Brazil. However, Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) interfered and appealed to the Defense Department to provide an airplane for DeMint and his delegation, which the Pentagon allowed. DeMint will be joined by US Reps. Aaron Schock (R-IL), Peter Roskam (R-IL), and Doug Lamborn (R-CO). Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL) will be visiting Honduras on Monday. Ros-Lehtinen and the congressmen plan on meeting with Micheletti, members of the Honduran Supreme Court, election officials, and Honduran business and civic leaders. However, they are snubbing Zelaya who recently returned to Honduras and took refuge in the Brazilian Embassy in Tegucigalpa.
Perhaps the public relations firm Chlopak, Leonard, Schechter & Associates — which Micheletti’s regime hired to “bolster its image in Washington” — helped convince DeMint to overlook the fact that Micheletti has suspended constitutional guarantees to civil liberties, including freedom of assembly and freedom of the press. Meanwhile, the U.N. Human Rights Council has unanimously called for an immediate end to all human rights violations in Honduras on behalf of the de facto government.
"Sen DeMint did not announce that to the New York Times, they did not get that from our office. They did not speak to staff members from our office that I know of -- they certainly did not talk to me...He's not in support of any particular politician. He supports democracy, the rule of law and the constitution of Honduras, and he wants to see a quick resolution to the crisis, one that allows the Honduran people to resolve it through a democratic and transparent process."
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Is he nuts? Why do these Repugs believe they are above the law?
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:48 pmThis is serious, Republicans seem to think they are ABOVE the laws of the United States. DeMint needs to be fully investigated and receive the max punishment.
How far are the Republicans going to go with refusing to recognize Obama as president? It is time for the Obama administration to get tough with guys like DeMint.
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:53 pmOur government needs to enforce the Logan Act and arrest these traitors when they return to the United States of America.
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:54 pmWhat was aaronk saying about Republicans not supporting coups?
jackasses.
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:54 pmRevoke his passport and strand him there. Just once, would it kill these people to do the right thing?
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 pmAnother questions is why did the Defense Department allow the use of one of their planes to take the delegation to Honduras? There needs to be a deep investigation into the whole affair.
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 pmDeMint Defiantly Leads GOP Delegation To Meet With Illegitimate Honduran Post-Coup Government
– - Put them ALL on the Do-Not-Fly list and let them rot in Honduras.
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 pmBadmoodman says:
——————————————————————————–
DeMint Defiantly Leads GOP Delegation To Meet With Illegitimate Honduran Post-Coup Government
– – Put them ALL on the Do-Not-Fly list and let them rot in Honduras
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 pmI heartily second that idea
Arrest this futhamucker NOW!
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 pmHas MSM reported this? Or are they still fixated on David Letterman? Lord knows, Dave’s sex scadal is much more important than this. (???)
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 pmSpitting image of treason. Aren’t we in an anti-American mood today?
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:59 pmTP – can we get a copy edit on that, please????
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 pmLet him go on his ‘fact finding’ trip.
Just don’t let him return.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:02 pmHey, this fits the Repub dream of governing…he may be considering taking up residence. We can only hope!
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:02 pmI concur: Our military can quietly “coup” these republicans to that country under the cloak of accommodating a congressional delegation. Let them rot .. er, Roskam.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 pmCall these “congressmen/woman” that are going on this “fact-finding trip” and voice your displeasure to thier offices. All numbers are in the 202 area code.
Jim DeMint 224-6121
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:04 pmAaron Schock 225-6201
Peter Roskam 225-4561
Doug Lamborn 225-4422
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen 225-3931
Superfantastic! Hope those bums get stranded down there, they will be right at home in corruption ridden Latin America. Let me note, however, plenty of corruption in the good ‘ol USofA. Just look at all the bulging fat pockets of the pubs and and bluedogs that sold out the American people for filthy lucre rather than do what they were suppose to do, move forward and reform healthcare in a meaningful way.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:05 pmOkay this is lunacy. Since when do sitting Congressmen negotiate with foreign governments in violation of U.S.law? This should not be ignored and the law should be applied to each and every individual participating in this expedition.
I really think these clowns are daring Obama to call them on their treasonous acts. I wish he’d do it…..and quickly.
Motion Carried. I’m all for it!
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:06 pmCalling Mr. Bush’s tax cuts during two wars (one illegal) “reckless” was enough to get you shouted down with calls of treason by not only the right winged news, but the so-called “mainstream” media as well. So now that the POTUS is a Black Democrat, blasting your Commander-In-Chief in front of a foriegn government (illegitement-Honduras, or not-Israel) doesnt warrant those calls anymore.
Wow how times have changed.
RIP
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:06 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
Providing legitimacy to an unrecognized government is a fast way to ensure we get stuck with another group human-rights crushing goons in charge of a nation. [see Iran, N. Korea, etc]
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:07 pmTreason is the Reason for the Season!
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:07 pmTraitor! No doubt about it.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:07 pmLefty Liberal says:
Another questions is why did the Defense Department allow the use of one of their planes to take the delegation to Honduras? There needs to be a deep investigation into the whole affair.
But but SanFranNan used a plane while in America, doing American constituent bidness. This is different, Republicans are using the plane to undermine their government. Healthy, normal.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:08 pmSorry, illegitimate.
RIP
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:08 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
I seem to recall that the government of Cuba was taken over in a coup. Are Republicans now in favor of lifting restrictions on travel to and trade with Cuba?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:09 pmdemint and his posse can be dealt with in due time. right now the pressure needs to be put on the pentagon officials who okayed transport for the trip (they need to be publicly identified) and on mcconnell. then demint et. al need to be formally censured…mcconnell, too. impeachment proceedings are in order for demint. the pr firm chlopak, leonard, schechter & assoc’s…what can we do to them?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:10 pmlet’em come back, then strip them of their committee seats.
better to have them home, hurting and shamed,
than anywhere else pretending to be martyrs.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:11 pmAhhhh… I see, Jim DeMint got a phone number from Governor Sandford, all is clear now!
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:11 pmRemember the Republican hissy fit over Nancy Pelosi’s visit to the Mid East?
We really need the left to rip DeMint to shreds over this. Worse is that he is supporting this coup even as they shut down the country during a national election. They are stealing the election with the full support of Jim DeMint.
Hypocrites!
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:11 pmI hope that the DOJ acts and puts DeMint in his rightful place behind bars. Who does this jerk think he is? He has been looking for a fight with Obama since he took office, I hope gets what he is looking for.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:14 pmAnd if this had been a Dem going to oh, lets say Iraq before the runup to the Bush Crime Family Illegal war?
Where are the Trolls?
pathetic
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:15 pm.
When will the G(no)P criticise DeMint like they did Pelosi’s visit to Iran?
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55038
.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:15 pmThis is just disrespectful, plain and simple. Repuppetcans know damn well that had a Democratic Senator done this during Mr. Bush’s term that all hell would have broke loose. This is just another one of those “I’m not bound to listen to nor honor anything that comes from that illegitimate, Black Man that sits in my house”.
You can all say that thats not true but as usual you would be lying. This brazen disrespect is setting the stage for something big, something that is going to bring this country to it’s knees, all because we had the audacity to elect a Black man into office.
Again, do not even attempt to try to defend this Republicans, for this is indefensible, totally indefensible.
Anyone who still believes that the opposition to the POTUS is all about policy is an effin idiot.
THIS is treason, PERIOD!
RIP
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:18 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
So President Obama can not take 18 hours to go to Denmark to meet with the IOC, but these traitors can take a trip to go visit with an illegal government?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:18 pmAlphaLiberal says:
They are stealing the election with the full support of Jim DeMint.
Hypocrites!
Not hypocritical at all. Remember the 2000 election? The Republicans will steal an election anytime they can.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:19 pmThe Logan Act forbids “unauthorized citizens” from negotiating with foreign governments.
Do these idiots NEVER cease to flaunt their distaste for our Constitution and the laws of America by breaking them with such blatent willfulness? Shouldn’t the State Department or the FBI be hauling this dufus’s ass to jail?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:20 pmIf we are lucky, perhaps during DeMint’s visit, there will be another coup — the president of Honduras will return and have Demint imprisoned as an enemy of the state, and South Carolina will have one less loon representing it on the national and state level. I mean, WTF is it with South Carolina?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:20 pmWhen Texas leaves, it can take dumbass South Carolina with them, along with OK, KY, TN, AK, AR, MS, LA, GA, AL, AZ, etc.
RIP
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:22 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
It is like a race to the bottom, except there is no bottom…
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:22 pmTired Of Fighting says:
——————————————————————————–
When Texas leaves, it can take dumbass South Carolina with them, along with OK, KY, TN, AK, AR, MS, LA, GA, AL, AZ, etc.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:23 pmHey now, I have family in TN, let’s say they can take the government though.
I think this must be addressed head-on, or this type of GOP treason will continue. Like USNclerk suggests, revoke his passport and strand him. Also, I’d like to see him arrested upon return if he can be shown to have encouraged defiance by the advising coup vs US policy and the international community.
Harry Reid: strip his seniority in all committees.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:24 pmUnless Demint owns a sweat shop down there I can’t see what he hopes to gain by this. He can’t negotiate anything with Honduras…nothing. It would be illegal to do so and wouldn’t have the support of the United States government. This reminds me of when Nixon was running against Humprey and sent Kissinger over to tell the Vietnamese not to sign a peacy treaty with LBJ because they’d get a better deal with Nixon. When LBJ found out about it he reminded Nixon that what he was doing could be interpreted as treason. I don’t see any difference between that scenario and this one. If Demint trys to negotiate anything without the explicit permission of the Obama administration it will be treason.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:25 pmSo Obama can’t spend less than one day trying to bring the Olympics to the US without being criticized for neglecting the most pressing issues but these guys can go on an illegal “fact-finding” mission? Who knows, maybe with all these guys out of the country they can make some progress on healthcare reform.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:27 pmis jim denitwit the secretary of state?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:28 pmno you say?
thejn his ass needs to be thrown in jail for meddling in affairs of state.
DeMint’s Office: (202) 224-6121
Call them now. They will claim no coup has taken place, which is bull–loney. A President is taken from his home by armed men in the middle of the night and then thrown out of the country. And Jim DeMint says that’s not a coup!
Jim DeMint is a LIAR.
They clearly have talking points to read off to you. Ask them why DeMint supports suspension of freedoms in the lead up to a national election.
Ask them how Zelaya could have been extending his stay in office when the referendum he wanted would have been voted on the same day as when his successor would be elected?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:29 pmMark701 says:
And what about Ronnie RayGun and his contacts with Iran while Carter was in office? The Republicans will do anything to circumvent a Democratic President to further their own ends.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:29 pmIt’s just too bad that we don’t have a President who was perhaps maybe a former lawyer and who believes in upholding the written Rule Of Law!!!
The DOJ and Administration are as unlawful as DeMint & Co for not enforcing the law. Then again, it comes as no surprise after they legalized the former Administration’s War Crimes by not prosecuting them either.
In America, as long as you hold Federal Public Office, the law does not apply to you and never will! Isn’t that right, Mr. Cheney?!
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:29 pmThe republics are worse than any enemy we are facing in battle today. They do not have the interest of our constitution in hand. These people are worse than the taliban.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:29 pm- – O.T. – -
Todd Palin quits his job. (Insert your own punchline here).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/02/todd-palin-resigns-from-o_n_308000.html
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:30 pmTREASON!!! Get the handcuffs ready for DeMinted, his fate is set in stone now.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:31 pmyes,
because repukelicans have such a great track record in meddling with south and central american governments:
just ask the people of chile. the repukes gave them pinochet.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:32 pmor the salvadorians. the repukes gave them the contras.
DeMint should have charges brought for not abiding with the law of the land.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:32 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Obama is going to have to put his foot down when this moron returns to the US. First, he should REAM the pentagon official that approved use of a military aircraft, second Demint should be placed under house arrest when he gets back. Sure he’ll become the newest antihero for the GOP but who cares. Demint has issued a challenge to the US government with this trip and Obama better respond forcifully.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:33 pmWhere have I been? Somehow, while I wasn’t paying attention, the minority party in the Senate took over the task of setting and implementing U.S. foreign policy!
I understand Demented is calling this a “fact-finding” trip. That’s rich. Since when did “facts” mean a damn thing to him? Like he’s what . . . going to Honduras and coming back with a different opinion about the illegal regime there because he learned some new “facts”? I won’t be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:34 pmSo what. After KYJellyventures, got his GED, he posted, on TP.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:34 pmJust called his office the sec. sounded like shes been getting a few calls. (kinda freaked out) I sugessts everbody call in and call him on his treason….. I used that word with good reason. These people can’t ignore the law and get away with it anymore ….Call early and call often…
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 pmWhat the hell is it with these South Carolina repubs. This fool is openly committing treason on the taxpayers dime. When he touches down from his trip to Honduras, they should take his stupid ass straight to jail.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 pmhey kwstard
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 pmjimmy carter is also a nobel peace prize winner. is jim dethinmint?
kwsventures says:
So what. After he left office, Jimmy Carter, met with Fidel Castro.
I’ve highlighted the important part of that statement, kws…
I DeMint leaving the Senate? Is he making this trip as a private citizen?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:37 pmkwsventures says:
So what. After he left office, Jimmy Carter, met with Fidel Castro.
Don’t forget in 1972 President Nixon went to China to meet with Mao.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:37 pmSpeaking of TREASON… O.T. but good!
Investigate the Entire Torture Team
http://ccrjustice.org/torture-team-cards
.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:38 pmDeMint is going for his C street family. This is not the first time these bastards have been involved in tinkering with foreign governments. Everyone of them, DeMint, Colburn, Ensign, and Grassley need to be investigated and removed from office. This is an absolute violation of the oaths they swore to this country. They do not believe in the Constitution, they do not believe in separation of church and state–they believe in Christian nationalism. He should be arrested upon puting a foot back on American soil.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:38 pmHi kwsventures:
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:38 pmSo about that product or service? Just make something up and grab the name of a FLA company and I will buy some. Much brow sweating today?
Todd Palin quits his job. (Insert your own punchline here).
Okay.
“He’s exhausted from ghost-writing his wife’s book.”
“‘Me loves them royalty checks!’”
“‘You can’t fire me. I quit.’”
“He needs to spend more time around the house to find out why all those strange, unfamiliar men’s underpants keep showing up under his bed.”
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:38 pmhar5125,
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:40 pmThe Logan Act covers that. Nixon’s trip WAS legal.
DeMint’s? Not so much.
How close is Honduras to Rio?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:40 pmDoes Minty have a little boyfriend down south, somewhat?
hey kwstard,
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:42 pmcan you point out to the nice people where in the job description of “senator” does “meeting with illegally established governments as a result of a coup” appear?
kwsventures says:
So what. After he left office, Jimmy Carter, met with Fidel Castro.
Does everyone else see what this dumbass cant?
AFTER Jimmy Carter left office, you must have one of them dumb states education. Leave idiot.
There is no defense of this and you know it.
RIP
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:43 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
I think I need more information on this. Why is he going?
If one is going to negotiate freeing political prisoners or hostages, to prevent violence, or to witness an election, that’s one thing. It kind of depends on why you’re there. For example, Powell and Carter went to Haiti during their government crisis, and managed to prevent the necessity of the U.S. invading them. That was all cool.
So what’s the purpose of DeMint’s trip?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:44 pmmsnbc is portraying this as a “fascinating feud” between Kerry and DeMint due to DeMint blocking 2 Obama appointees.
SENATE SHENANIGANS: The Washington Post has the details of a fascinating feud between Dem Sen. John Kerry and GOP Sen. Jim DeMint. Kerry is blocking DeMint’s ability to visit Honduras on a fact-finding trip until DeMint lifts his hold on two Obama appointees.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:50 pmMax Anax junius -1 says:
I was mistaken thanks for the correction.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:55 pmKerry’s feud with DeMint might be ‘fascinating‘, but that does not in any way detract from the fact that DeMint et.al. are in complete violation of the Logan Act.
Makes no difference what the reason(s) for the trip might have been, the fact that he defied established policy and the law is the point.
I hope he’s prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:55 pmWhen did it become good politics for our elected leaders to travel to other countries to bad-mouth America and support persons and positions contrary to USA policy?
I think I remember that at one time, this was considered almmost treasonous – it is most certainly unpatriotic.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:04 pmI’ve heard they ousted Zelaya, because he was in violation of the Honduran constitution by running for another term.
Is that not true?
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:08 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I’m on his site right now. This guy has more than a screw loose. I forget, are presidential gag orders issued to traitors in a time of war unconstitutional?
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:09 pmElBruce. Pardon the Fox video, but here’s the right wing explanation of the situation and an interview with the interim President of Honduras:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz3uVU9wkZ8
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:14 pmbackup says:
I’ve heard they ousted Zelaya, because he was in violation of the Honduran constitution by running for another term.
No- that is not true… he called for a referendum to amend the Constitution…
DeMint has done this himself… http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Jim_DeMint_Civil_Rights.htm
Should we oust DeMint for his support of a Constitutional referendum on flag-burning?
Is that Democracy?
Or were you being purposefully obtuse?
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:15 pmThe amount of time and energy the Republicans, (are there any left?)spend disrespecting President Obama is overwhelming. This trip speaks volumes to their obsession with Obama and their desire for him to fail, at any cost to this country. The lies the subversions the deliberate fabrications completely boggle the mind. This has got to stop. Our President hasn’t been in office a full year yet, and look how they’re behaving
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:17 pm70. El Bruce,
Of course, Carter and Powell were going on the request of the acting US Govt. (From Wikipedia: In 1994, Haitian General Raoul Cédras asked former U.S. President Jimmy Carter to help avoid a U.S. military invasion of Haiti.[12] President Carter relayed this information to President Clinton, who asked Carter, in his role as founder of The Carter Center, to undertake a mission to Haiti with Senator Sam Nunn, D-GA, and former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Colin Powell.)
What really gets me going is that a lot of troubles in the Spanish new world are a result of the US hawks interferrence in the first place. (Go back to the 30s and see those business leaders that wanted us to take up Nazi-ism).
A glaring example is Haiti / Papa Doc. Now it looks like we’re gonna make an already chaotic situation more chaotic.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:22 pmI agree with every statement about how treasonous this trip this trip will be – but there is nothing that can be done to stop him… only once he comes back, then lets hope a few more Graysons appear in the Senate, Congress & White house!
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:22 pmbelaccifer lacca. The interim President in the interview states that the Honduran constitution cannot be ammended by design of it’s authors.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:23 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
“I’ve heard they ousted Zelaya, because he was in violation of the Honduran constitution by running for another term.
Is that not true?”
It is false. Zelaya is not “running for another term” and was not campaigning when tossed out of the country at the point of a gun. He called for a referendum on whether or not to hold a constitutional convention.
His detractors claimed he would extend his stay in office by this referendum. However, the referendum vote was on the same day as the Presidential election! Supposedly, he would have had a successor elected but still somehow convene the convention and pass a new Constitution AND restore himself to office by the time the new guys was sworn in. Doesn’t fly.
This core claim from the coup plotters makes no damn sense.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:23 pm76 -
you’d be right,
were not the circumstances entirely different.
i’m sorry.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:23 pmArmand, FWIW, I do not think that the Logan Act applies here.
Notice how I said that without insulting you? Are you capable of posting without an insult?
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:24 pmYou’re right, you are sorry.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:25 pmbackup:
belaccifer lacca. The interim President in the interview states that the Honduran constitution cannot be ammended by design of it’s authors.
Then how has it been amended so many times in the last 30 years?
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:26 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
@#86– how are the circumstances different for 76?
Either legislators can go talk to anyone they want, or they can’t.
Because you agree with one and not the other is not a valid reason.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:28 pmWasn’t DeMinted one of those screeching about Nancy Pelosi “conducting her own foreign policy” when she dared to go abroad?
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:28 pmbackup says:
belaccifer lacca. The interim President in the interview states that the Honduran constitution cannot be ammended by design of it’s authors.
The Honduran Constitution was adopted in 1982 and it is the sixteenth Constitution that Honduras has had since declaring independence from Spain in 1825…
It was adopted in RESPONSE to TEN YEARS of Military rule… yeah, it’s a pro-military coup Constitution alright!
That’s the way to establish a lasting democracy… please.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:29 pmThe whole thing in Honduras reeks to high heaven of course.
For example, apparently it was led by School of the Americas graduate Romeo Vasquez who had been fired three days before the coup for not supporting the referendum.
Sometimes one just cannot get to the bottom of these kind of tar pits it seems.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:29 pmI found this. Although the constitution can be amended, certain provisions apparently cannot:
http://countrystudies.us/honduras/84.htm
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:29 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
armand: “What a bunch of hypocrites you all are. The Logan act means nothing, at least it didn’t when Nancy Pelosi went to Syria against the policies of the United States and the White House.”
I don’t believe the State Department had a policy that said meetings with delegates from Syria were illegal or even counter to our interests. The Bush administration, despite it’s rhetoric, was working with Syria on certain “War on Terror” issues like having them torture our detainees.
In this case, we have actually taken a diplomatic position in concordance with the rest of the industrialized world that the republicans are going to argue against on foreign soil, thereby undermining a stated position. Come on, man.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:31 pmI might also add that Nancy Pelosi conducted a state visit with the recognized, lawful, government of Syria. DeMented? Not so much.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:32 pmbackup says:
I found this. Although the constitution can be amended, certain provisions apparently cannot:
The call was for a referendum on whether the people wanted to write an entirely new Constitution, not allow an additional term… do you really wanna back the military coup on this one, backup?
The referendum would have occurred at the same time that people were voting on his successor…
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:34 pmThe difference, stupid trolls, is that DeMented is visiting a “government” that is not officially recognized and has no legal standing.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:34 pmThe text of the Logan Act:
There is plenty of wiggle room in there for a weasel to violate this but claim not to be violating it.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:35 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I’m not a huge Zelaya fan, backup… but if you buy the line that this coup was not only justified but legal under Honduran law then you’ve been smoking something crazy…
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:38 pmbelaccifer lacca. I honestly don’t know which side is the coup.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:39 pmIs the U.S. position to reinstate Zelaya?
The U.S. position is that the ‘interim’ government is illegal and undeserving of official recognition… and that the coup was illegal and counter to the ideals of democracy.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:39 pmAlso. Nancy Pelosi had every reason to assume that she and other Democratic leaders were not getting accurate information. All that “WMD” and “Saddam was behind 9/11″ crap kind of raised the danger flags. Is there any evidence that the Obama Administration has lied to Republican lawmakers about the situation in South America?
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:40 pm“Carsten” you are not making sense.
See my post, number 85. How would a referendum question, on the same day as the Presidential election, have kept Zelaya in office?
It’s just not possible. Unless you believe in time travel, maybe.
I’ve reviewed that Constitution and it needs a LOT of work. Some sort of bill of rights, for example, or right to free speech and press.
All you are doing, “Carsten,” is repeating coup leader talking points.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:40 pmbelaccifer lacca. I honestly don’t know which side is the coup.
Let me help, the one that had the military arrest and deport the sitting President.
That’s how a coup works.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:40 pmNow that’s much better. So the Logan Act means nothing. Tell that to the posters here who want to charge Demint with treason and quote the Logan Act as their reason just because he is a Republican. OOOPS you just did.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:41 pmTechnically, the current government of Honduras can’t even issue legal visa’s. And it certainly has no recognized power to conduct meetings with foreign officials. Relative viciousness aside, they are no more legitimate than the Taliban warlords who control bits of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:44 pmWhat if George Bush would have attempted to stay in office after the past election?
Would his forced removal be considered a coup? Or executing the intent of the law?
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:46 pmWesley Denton, a spokesman for DeMint, told Talking Points Memo that the Senator is not attempting “to intervene in support of the military coup in Honduras.” Denton explained:
This is easy….”Not your job…that’s what we elect the President to do…not to mention the State Department. Your job, idiot is to stay home to figure out a way to have all those people of SC, who don’t have health insurance covered without losing their homes.”
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:46 pmCentral American politics aside, the real purpose of DeMint’s partisan trip is to embarrass the President on the international stage on very same day Obama’s Olympic bubble burst. This is one more deliberate step to chip away at Obama’s legitimacy and eventually bring him down. Whether legal or unpatriotic, it sure is arrogant.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:47 pmI don’t want him charged under any act,
I want his, and the others’ committee seats taken away, as a reward for their impetuousness.
But really – the whole thing matters little – it’s just another case of R pups trying to catch a squirrel and pretend it’s “big game”.
Honduras produces some excellent cigars.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:48 pmIt would be bad precedent to start with criminal penalties for lawmakers who talk to foreign leaders or quasi-leaders, agree with them or not. Post knee-jerk reaction, would anyone actually want to start down that road?
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:49 pmWhat if George Bush would have attempted to stay in office after the past election?
Zelaya wasn’t doing this.
Zelaya was calling for a NON-BINDING referendum on the POSSIBILITY of adding a fourth ballot box at the time of the next election (WHERE HIS SUCCESSOR WOULD BE DECIDED) that would determine if their was public support for a new Constitutional Convention… SCARY!
The coup was illegal and your defense of it is sad…
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:49 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Armand, they have good points to make, especially post #97, which clearly shows how Jim DeMint has acted in direct contradiction of US policy.
Jim DeMint is clearly violating the spirit, any maybe the letter, of the Logan Act.
But there has never been a prosecution under this. I prefer to point out how Jim DeMint is behaving very undemocratically and supporting a military junta that has carried out a coup with the threat of violence.
We can clearly see by his actions Jim DeMint does not believe in democracy.
Jim DeMint’s favorite junta has clamped down on opposition news media (raiding their offices) and political opponents. They’ve suspended rights. This is real fascist stuff, which Jim DeMint embraces.
DeMint sucks but we don’t need another Logan Act debate.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:49 pmI’m late to the conversation and I don’t think any particular action should be taken against Jim DeMented. On the other hand, it’s eminently fair to point out the hypocrisy of the Reichwhiners for freaking out over Pelosi’s visit to Syria without taking the same position on DeMented.
I don’t even ask that they consider the matter of degree raised by the fact that Pelosi visited the lawful government of one country while DeMented is visiting insurrectionists in another. I wouldn’t want to overload the stunted trollish brains with a gray area outside their black and white world.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:52 pmI notice b-cup got 5 up votes on the olympics thread because he actually said something truthful.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:52 pmNotice this is the real b-cup. When he gets lonely or has his buttt handed to him he always does this.
He’s an arrogant snake in the grass.
As for DeMint.At the least censor his actions.
tony and lido
Actions supported by Senator Jim DeMint:
There is a great fiction that Republicans believe in democratic governance. They do not, as this episode proves.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:53 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
And Armand coming here with your belicous attitude isn’t going to get you very far.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:55 pmAsk the now banned arnook
tony and lidop
you can find him at redstate
I’m not surprised at that.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:56 pm—
And why aren’t you? Or did you just add that because you are frustrated and angry?
Now that’s much better. So the Logan Act means nothing. Tell that to the posters here who want to charge Demint with treason and quote the Logan Act as their reason just because he is a Republican. OOOPS you just did.
Oops? Like he accidently posted the Logan act?
Too funny.
We need better trolls. These are too incompetent.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:57 pmPosting anothers opinion is fine but if you are trying to claim this opinion as your own then that’s plagiarism. You need to quote the source for you information here.
That’s how it works.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:58 pmI don’t think DeMitt should be representing the U.S. in Honduras. That’s the administration’s job.
If Hondurans have a constitution that limits it’s President’s to one term, it would seem contrary to that intent to press for a reinstatement of Zelaya.
I don’t know what the adminstration’s position is.
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:59 pmWrong again, stupid troll. My point is that by the time Pelosi visited the lawful government of Syria in ‘07 she was fully aware of the fact that no information comming from the Bush Administration could be trusted.
WMD and Saddam’s alleged involvement with 9/11 are just two of the most heinous examples of the hundreds of lies issued as official statements, including addresses and presentations to Congress and the U.N., from the Bush Administration. And, like many people, I never believe a confirmed liar again, till the end of time.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:00 pmbackup-
Let me help you understand… what if the military had decided in early 2007 that it was likely that Bush would not surrender power no matter the results of the election in 2008 and so the Marines arrested Bush and Cheney flew them to Canada and the Supreme Court swore in Nancy Pelosi as the ‘interim’ President… would you have supported that?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:00 pmArmand, Pelosi met with State Department before her trip. There was no problem with that, just more fake outrage from the right wing.
All you’re trying to do here is deflect attention away from Republican support for a military coup.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:00 pmarmand, do you know the purpose of DeMint’s trip?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:00 pmThat’s not it at all. He is just backing up a previouse post with correct information. How short sighted you are not to realize that.
Now that is funny.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:00 pmIf Hondurans have a constitution that limits it’s President’s to one term, it would seem contrary to that intent to press for a reinstatement of Zelaya.‘
Why? His term isn’t even up yet.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:01 pmarnand,
are you capable of making a point without being insulting?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:01 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Lefty, You’re right. Raygun set the precedent for undermining the current government.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 pmArmand, I quoted those news stories (not opinions) as quotes. Those news stories (not opinions) demonstrated how Jim DeMint (sounds French) is embracing military dictatorship in our hemisphere over democratic governance.
The only argument you can muster in response is “waaa, no link.” Discover the Google.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 pmarmand says:
What is it?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 pmShould we recognize this ‘interim’ government?
Why?
What is our administrations position? Do we want Zelaya reinstated as President of Honduras?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 pmHm. How about we send a special ops team into Honduras to clap DeMint in leg irons and render him to, oh, someplace really appropriate to his status. Haiti seems like a good choice. Maybe they have space in one of their lockups. He could be left there, with no notification of anyone, everyone bribed to keep quiet for a month or two about the screeching Americano, until he promises to make nice, be a good boy, and fracking behave; otherwise, six months in the “hole”.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:04 pmarmand says:
livelongandprosper says:
——————————————————————————–
armand, do you know the purpose of DeMint’s trip?
I believe so. How about you? I mean without the liberal spin on it.
I have yet to hear the conservative spin on it. That’s why I am asking. Maybe I should rephrase the question, What do you think is the purpose of DeMint’s trip?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:04 pmWhat is our administrations position? Do we want Zelaya reinstated as President of Honduras?
He’s the elected President until 2010, backup.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:04 pmWhy, have I insulted you Mary? Are you capable of keeping on topic?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:05 pmwhy do all these folks have all these anger issues? False sense of superiority? Frustration at being part of a fragmented leaderless adrift collection of misfits and whackjobs? I don’t get it….
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:05 pmAll the ‘conservatives’ needed to hear was that Hugo Chavez was against the coup.
Talk about your knee-jerk reactions…
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:05 pmAre you capable of keeping on topic?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:06 pm—
Sure and it seems the topic has turned to what appears to be a bs condescending tone on your part. Might you wish to explain?
armand says:
mary lacewing says:
——————————————————————————–
arnand,
are you capable of making a point without being insulting?
Why, have I insulted you Mary? Are you capable of keeping on topic?
lol – I guess that would be a ‘No’.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:07 pmIt’s more like, just because he is a traitor. Your plausible fallacy of comparing it to Peloies visit to Syria is hysterical but innaccurate to say the least.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:07 pmI mean without the liberal spin on it.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:08 pm—
Will it be acceptable to you if we discuss the conservative spin?
belaccifer lacca.
I’m starting to get it.
Zelaya was President. His term hadn’t expired (He would still be in office today, if not for this circumstance).
He was proposing an amendment to the Constitution. Not for his own relection, but for future executives. His heavy handed opponents used his proposal for an amendment to oust him (prior to his term ending) and take power.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:08 pmbackup says:
ElBruce. Pardon the Fox video, but here’s the right wing explanation of the situation and an interview with the interim President of Honduras:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz3uVU9wkZ8
backup says:
The interim President in the interview states that the Honduran constitution cannot be ammended by design of it’s authors.
From what I’m getting in that video, that’s way worse. FAUX Noise and DeMint supporting the military coup in their dispute with the previously elected President is exactly a reason they should not go. All that’s in that video is taking sides in their issue. They say he was doing something illegal, he says he wasn’t. But the decision on how the U.S.A. treats this issue diplomatically is not up to DeMint or any other government representative who isn’t the President.
I’m sure the other side says something else, but it’s not like Greta is going to ask them (”fair and balanced?”). For all I know, this guy might be right. But then again, I don’t know enough to decide either way. What I do know is that I’m only hearing one side of the issue. I also know that U.S. Congressmen shouldn’t be meddling in their affairs. Even if he were right, it’s still a delicate situation and how we respond to it should be left to the State Department.
At present, the U.S.A. has not recognized the coup as legitimate; nor has any other developed nation. DeMint doesn’t get to override that; it’s not his decision to make.
.
armand says:
You mean like Pelosi did right? She’s not arrogant right?
Pelosi isn’t trying to exercise power that she doesn’t have. She only exercises the power she does have. Nothing “arrogant” about that.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:09 pmHE was proposing a NON-BINDING referendum on the POSSIBILITY of an Amendment, backup…
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:10 pmWow “Armand” you sure to sound familiar for a “new” stupid troll. Nancy Pelosi did not “go against the President and laws… stuff…garble…”. She went on an independent mission to visit a foreign government and one of the reasons for that is that the President of the time had proven, over and over, that his Administration was untrustworthy. And I would support anyone of any party in looking into every detail they can think of.
It was seen by you 20%ers as “treasonous” but the other six and a half billion people on earth think it’s a good thing for responsible parties to do their jobs even if it includes finding their own facts.
I don’t think DeMented is treasonous. As I said, I don’t think any action should be taken against him. I do however, think that your side’s hypocrisy should be flung into the faces of every brainless, heartless, soulless, stupid troll in the blogosphere. It pleases me when you scum are exposed.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:10 pmTo the trolls — as I recall the State Department cleared Pelosi when she went to Syria on a fact-finding mission.
No one has cleared Demint – he is defiantly going to a country whose leader is not recognized by the US – inferring his opposition to the current administration: a violation of the Logan Act.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:10 pmWell, not being DeMint, I think his visit is to talk to those in power to discuss what their intentions are. Of course they can talk about other things but I think we should have these questions answered. Don’t you? I’m surprised that Obama hasn’t sent an official delegation there to ask these questions.
My opinion is another thing though. My opinion is that the legal sitting President should be allowed to finish his term and Military coups are not a good thing even if they benefit the United States.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:12 pmDeMint should be arrested as soon as tries to return to the US. The word is TREASON.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:12 pmAnd the Pentagon okayed this????
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:12 pmbelaccifer lacca. Unless there is some compelling information from the interim government that Zelaya broke Honduran law that would justify there action, Zelaya should be reinstated.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:13 pmSounds a bit like treason to me. DeMint is becoming a famous American, similar to Benedict Arnold.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:13 pmI’m surprised that Obama hasn’t sent an official delegation there to ask these questions.
Could there be a reason for this?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:13 pmbelaccifer lacca. Unless there is some compelling information from the interim government that Zelaya broke Honduran law that would justify there action, Zelaya should be reinstated.
Agreed.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:14 pmMarie (#155) This post says that the pentagon cleared him.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 pmElBruce. We agree that it’s none of DeMint’s business to go.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 pmSeems we change our tone pretty quickly when our bs ‘tude is called out….
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:16 pmHow interesting how the righties all of the sudden care so much about the Honduran constitution.
For me that is a big clue about what’s going on here.
That and the fact that Zelaya was upsetting the multinationals by raising their taxes and raising the minimum wage (by 60% – to a whopping $265 per month).
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:16 pmTheir Constitution does say that. However, the Obama Administration’s position is that Zelaya should be reinstated to serve out his full term, freedoms restored, and an election for his successor held in November.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:17 pmI might add that I have no particular problem with either trip because neither of them have any particular authority to give anything up. All they can do is chat. But I still do find it immensely entertaining to see the stupid trolls trying to justify a rather shady trip by one of “theirs” when they went so spastic over a legitimate trip by one of “ours”.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:18 pmSorry, but your recollections are wrong. The White House did not approve her visit to Syria or sanction it.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:18 pmIt is very common for conservative Americans to support a military coup overthrowing a democratically-elected government.
Iran, Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua, Panama, Salvador, Puerto Rico, Haiti, Greece, etc.
Read DETERRING DEMOCRACY by Noam Chomsky and KILLING HOPE by William Blum.
FROM WOUNDED KNEE TO IRAQ: A CENTURY OF U.S. MILITARY INTERVENTIONS by Dr. Zoltan Grossman:
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
WIKIPEDIA: “General Smedley Butler in 1934, alleged to the United States Congress that a group of wealthy industrialists had plotted a military coup known as the Business Plot to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt.”
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:19 pmarmand says:
Sorry, but your recollections are wrong. The White House did not approve her visit to Syria or sanction it.
I do recall Republicans all whining about how she was a traitor and how it was wrong of her to do it. Hypocrisy much? ;)
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:20 pmmuntaba says:
Marie (#155) This post says that the pentagon cleared him.
They’re not in charge of diplomacy. That’s State’s job.
Or were you refering to them giving him a plane? He’s still a senator, and capable of causing problems for the pentagon, if he wasn’t accomodated.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:21 pmKeith says:
It is very common for conservative Americans to support a military coup overthrowing a democratically-elected government.
Support? They’re usually behind it! ;)
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:21 pmSorry, but your recollections are wrong. The White House did not approve her visit to Syria or sanction it.
But they briefed her… strange.
the U.S. State Department disclosed that the Bush administration briefed Pelosi for her trip while publicly criticizing her decision.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/845016.html
oops.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:22 pmThe pentagon has cleared a hell of a lot of things that are extrmely illegal and counter-productive. Anyone remember Iraq or Vietnam or Iran-Contra or funding and training the Taliban?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:23 pmarmand says:
Well, not being DeMint, I think his visit is to talk to those in power to discuss what their intentions are. Of course they can talk about other things but I think we should have these questions answered. Don’t you? I’m surprised that Obama hasn’t sent an official delegation there to ask these questions.
My opinion is another thing though. My opinion is that the legal sitting President should be allowed to finish his term and Military coups are not a good thing even if they benefit the United States.
Thanks Armand. Yes, the questions should indeed be answered. And yes Obama should answer the question as to why he hasn’t sent a delegation there. Although, to be fair, I haven’t searched to find out if there is an answer to the Obama question.
Very good questions but I don’t believe the solution is for any government official of the US to go without the express consent of the government. I believe that is a very dangerous line to cross.
Now, my liberal ’spin’ if you will. The military coup suspended basic rights to the citizen’s of Honduras. Meeting with them on their ground is tantamount to legitimizing these anti-freedom policies.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:23 pmZelaya’s base of support stems from the 70 percent of Hondurans who are considered impoverished. In fact, the country’s annual per-capita GDP is around $1,840, making it the fifth-poorest country in the Western Hemisphere after Haiti, Nicaragua, Guyana and Bolivia.
Some good info available here from the point of view of one the Honduran Information Minister Enrique Reina.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:23 pmKeep in mind that it was TP who started this conversation and I doubt that any Republican had any say in what they posted.
Sorry but your bias is showing. I’m not surprised. Pelosi’s trip is only valid for you because she is a Liberal and Liberals can never do anything wrong. I was just pointing that out. Pelosi’s trip to Syria was not authorized by the White House.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:23 pmIran-Contra? Sure some goofball thought it “was a neat idea”
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:24 pmrepugs will continue with the stupid until the dems stop them. Time to vote the old, quiet dems out and let the Weiners, Graysons, Franks lead the way.
repugs are crazy and need to be stopped!
Talk about arrogrance and lies. repugs are determine to undermined our AFRICAN-AMERICAN President. These crazy racist nutbags are determine to keep us in harms way.
Their foreign policies are hell in a handbasket, shock and awe and riped bs. They are deliberately interfering with our Constitution and our way of life.
Anything to get from health reform. eh aholes?
Lock ‘em up they are definitely spies.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:24 pmLock ‘em up before they kill us all.
Stupid troll says:
I’m surprised that Obama hasn’t sent an official delegation…
He doesn’t have to. We still have diplomatic relations with mutual Ambassadors and delegations and embassies. Official relations are far from perfect but they still exist and we are still allies.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:25 pmI’m not surprised.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:25 pm—
That is the seond time you weren’t. Wanna explain why this time?
Liberals can never do anything wrong
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:26 pm—
Where did you come up with this one?
Sorry, but your recollections are wrong. The White House did not approve her visit to Syria or sanction it.
Later Monday, the U.S. State Department disclosed that the Bush administration briefed Pelosi for her trip while publicly criticizing her decision.
They tacitly sanctioned it, by giving her a briefing.
Oops.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:27 pmI agree on that point, it applies to both parties, thus my objection to Pelosi’s unapproved visit to Syria during the Bush administration.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:29 pmHey, barfly!
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:29 pmjinx!
Yo’ belaccifer lacca. Why would they give Pelosi a briefing, if the trip was unsanctioned?
Did DeMint get a briefing? If not, there is no comparison to Pelosi’s trip.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:33 pmI can’t wait to hear what Natalie Maines of the Dixie Chicks has to say about DeMint’s foreign policy exercise.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:34 pmLBJ was a liberal and his Vietnam policy was horribly wrong. Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive and he killed hundreds of thousands of Filipinos to prevent them from running their country. Wilson was a liberal and he should not have entered WWI. I didn’t like HHH’s Vietnam policy. Carter supported Afghan fundamentalists in order to bring the Soviets into a war. Etc.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:34 pmbarfly(#172) I was speaking of the plane. I don’t know what official approval Senators need to go visit somewhere. DeMint is a turd but as long as fact finding missions are an acceptable waste of money, lawmakers should be free to make them with whatever approval process is in place for them.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:34 pmI agree with so many others here. This is one echo that needs to be made:
DeMint should be arrested and charged with Treason. A full DoJ investigation should be forthcoming into 1: why is he doing this and 2: how did he and McConnell do an end around via the DoD to make this happen after the State Department turned him down.
There is historical precedent for DeMint’s actions. He is looking for military allies as a precursor to a Coup d’etat.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:35 pmI agree on that point, it applies to both parties, thus my objection to Pelosi’s unapproved visit to Syria during the Bush administration.
But, but, what about the republican congressfolk who went before her? Or is it OKIYAR?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:36 pmReagan was a conservative and he supported terrorists…
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:36 pmIsn’t that cute? The “new” stupid troll thinks I’m a “Liberal”. Maybe he’s not a sockpuppet and isn’t familiar with my stances? Here’s a tip for you, stupid troll:
I have never supported an idea based on politics, I’m a realist and weigh everything, and everyone, on their individual merits. Until relatively recently that resulted in me voting for members of all parties as my decisions are based on intellectual ability and reasonable negotiation skills rather than dogmatic loyalty to any particular ideaology.
The sad fact is that no one with such attributes still has an (R) after their name. The plunge of the GOP into dogmatic extremism and it’s apparently immanent demise gives me no joy. But, the fact is that there are no voices of reason left. I would be delighted if there were two or more viable political parties in this country but such is not the case. The GOP has decayed beyond what one would think they can recover from.
And, frankly, until I see someone in the party move back towards the center while denouncing the Bachmanns and Inhofes and Palins and other morons? I find it convenient to assume anyone who still puts a tainted (R) after their names is deeply flawed. It simply doesn’t make any sense to associate with so many freakish extremists.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:36 pmSources barfly. That’s how it works here.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:36 pmFollow up…Looking for a allies to solve what GOP thugs recently posted on a right wing website as the “Obama Problem”
These people are SOCIOPATHS.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:37 pmCarter supported Afghan fundamentalists in order to bring the Soviets into a war. Etc.
And Reagan sold weapons to terrorists to free hostages, while lying about it on national television.
Your point?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:38 pmSources barfly. That’s how it works here.
Associated Press story-
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:39 pmI linked to a copy at #174… that’s how it works here.
armand says:
livelongandprosper says:
Very good questions but I don’t believe the solution is for any government official of the US to go without the express consent of the government. I believe that is a very dangerous line to cross.
I agree on that point, it applies to both parties, thus my objection to Pelosi’s unapproved visit to Syria during the Bush administration.
I don’t have an opinion on Pelosi’s trip, so I’ll leave it to you and others to debate whether it was unapproved or approved.
Military coup’s are never a good sign for the general population, no matter which side of the coup you agree with. It’s really too complicated for people like us to really know what the situation is. This is one reason why we have brave journalist who do their best to find answers to difficult questions. A bad signal is when the coup silences journalists. And when this happens, are politicians going to be able to come up with the real answers?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:40 pmdbadass,
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:40 pmReagan supported people who killed archbishops and raped and murdered nuns. But it was a “neat” idea to pay for it with arm sales to the terrorist state of Iran. And he was not sure if he remembered doing those things.
Sources barfly. That’s how it works here.
That’s rich coming from you.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/845016.html
Oops.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:40 pmarmand says:
Also there’s this little gem…
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/845016.html
oops…
P.S. ‘your bias is showing.’
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:41 pmVery good questions but I don’t believe the solution is for any government official of the US to go without the express consent of the government. I believe that is a very dangerous line to cross.
I’m sorry, I seem to have missed your criticism of the republicans who went there after Pelosi.
They also weren’t sanctioned, as you’re describing the term.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:43 pmWould you like a minute to regroup and collect your thoughts, armand?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:45 pmbarfly,
While I won’t speak for him, I think that Keith’s point was that those of us the stupid troll calls “liberals” are aware of our own mistakes and crimes. Most of us own up to our own flaws as well.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:45 pmOops, that’s before Pelosi.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:46 pmThanks for clearing that up, Pete.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:47 pmThat’s wonderful. If my Liberal statement doesn’t fit your ideology then I’m sorry. It does fit so many here.
We both have someting in common. You and I agree on what is going on in this country to a point. I object to being called a “troll” here just because I don’t buy into the Liberal Progressive mindset but it doesn’t realy bother me.
You are also correct in the fact that I’m not on this site very much. I only come here to pass the time.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:47 pmbarfly,
Some conservative claimed that we support bad foreign policy if it was carried out by “liberals”. I was listing examples to prove him wrong. I thought most progressives would agree with me. Yes, I left out all the horribly wrong conservative foreign policy because I knew everyone here at TP was well aware of that.
Half of American deaths in Vietnam came under Nixon.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:49 pmReagan and GHWBush supported Afghan fundamentalists much more than Carter. There was also October Surprise, Iran-Contra, and GHWBush’s illegal funding of Saddam (Iraqgate).
Good argument but I don’t agree with any such visits by anyone and for you to assume that I do is just bias thought on your part.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:50 pmGood argument but I don’t agree with any such visits by anyone and for you to assume that I do is just bias thought on your part.
Then, after all this nonsense, what you really wanted to say was that you agree with this post and think that DeMint should stay home?
Awesome.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:52 pmI don’t call you a stupid troll because of your politics either. I call you stupid troll because you stupidly parrot the false talking points of the Reichwing noise machine.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:54 pmGood argument but I don’t agree with any such visits by anyone and for you to assume that I do is just bias thought on your part.
But you agree that there is no comparison between DeMint’s trip and Pelosi’s, if Demint wasn’t given a briefing?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:54 pmIn other words; if one doesn’t wish to be treated like a troll? One should not act like a troll.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:58 pmarmand (#210)
These visits get made all the time. Whether or not you agree with such visits, should the lawmakers be free to make them, and if not what are or should be the conditions for approving them? Question is also directed at those who bring up the Logan Act or call for sanctions etc. for DeMint
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:58 pmbarfly says:
Very good questions but I don’t believe the solution is for any government official of the US to go without the express consent of the government. I believe that is a very dangerous line to cross.
I’m sorry, I seem to have missed your criticism of the republicans who went there after Pelosi.
They also weren’t sanctioned, as you’re describing the term.
Barfly, I’m not sure what your getting at here. I could try and go back and see if I criticized the republicans who went to Syria before Pelosi went. I don’t recall. I’m referring to the current situation. Syria and Honduras are two completely different situations.
A military coup that implements policies that are against freedom is not something I agree with. The stance of America on the Honduras situation is solely that of the Government of the United States. DeMint CANNOT do what he is doing without the consent of the US Government officials.
I don’t particularly care to go over Syria’s situation.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:59 pmBarfly, I’m not sure what your getting at here.
barfly is talking to armand, llandp.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:04 pmNot quite. What I mean to say is that this site posts these things to stir up the emotions of the posters here and to foster resentment toward the Republican Party. It certainly has done that.
The fact that DeMint is going to South America shouldn’t be the discussion. The discussion should be, with the White House knowing about DeMints trip, why isn’t the Administration briefing DeMint on what questions should be asked and what information should be gathered?
That is how Government should work. Bush should have done the same with Pelosi. For some here to call DeMint a traitor and to bring up the Logan Act was just nonsense.
aquarius2 says:
And on and on it went.
TP mission accomplished.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:09 pm@ 181. pete says: “Stupid troll says: I’m surprised that Obama hasn’t sent an official delegation…” He doesn’t have to. We still have diplomatic relations with mutual Ambassadors and delegations and embassies. Official relations are far from perfect but they still exist and we are still allies. October 2nd, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Far from perfect is the word(s), for sure. My recollection is that our ambassador has been recalled until this mess is resolved to the satisfaction of all parties. Yes, all of our other embassy people are there, and there’s someone to take care of the ambassador’s duties as head of embassy and as a contact for the Honduran Foreign Ministry, but the ambassador is in Washington DC (or on home leave, or whatever). Also, we’ve frozen the visas of all the ranking governmental and military officials who are part of this coup, so they (and their families) can’t travel to the US. Additionally, I believe that all official aid, apart from humanitarian aid, has been suspended, etc etc, and US citizens are advised not to travel to Honduras.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:09 pmarmand says:
My opinion is that the legal sitting President should be allowed to finish his term and Military coups are not a good thing even if they benefit the United States.
I don’t understand how this coup could possibly “benefit the United States.” Is the Honduran military turning over all of their nation’s natural resources to our corporations or something? That’s usually what that phrase means.
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backup says:
Unless there is some compelling information from the interim government that Zelaya broke Honduran law that would justify there action, Zelaya should be reinstated.
It would take more then “compelling justification.” The Honduran Supreme Court could declare the rest of his term illegitimate or their legislature could impeach him, but nothing short of that should suffice.
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armand says:
Pelosi’s trip is only valid for you because she is a Liberal and Liberals can never do anything wrong.
Do we not have diplomatic relations with Syria? Do we refuse to recognize their government? When did I miss that?
We aren’t saying that DeMint can’t go to any country without prior State Department authorization. However, the law states that he can’t go to unrecognized countries or those with which we don’t have diplomatic relations without prior authorization. If DeMint wanted to go to Syria, we wouldn’t be complaining. If Pelosi wanted to go to Honduras, we would.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:11 pmThe fact that DeMint is going to South America shouldn’t be the discussion. The discussion should be, with the White House knowing about DeMints trip, why isn’t the Administration briefing DeMint on what questions should be asked and what information should be gathered?
Because they don’t approve of the trip? Even tacitly? And they consider the ‘interim’ government of Honduras to be illegal and illegitimate? Like the rest of the world?
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:11 pmArmand says:
What I mean to say is that this site posts these things to stir up the emotions of the posters here and to foster resentment toward the Republican Party.
I have to agree with you Armand. Although not many political sites on both sides DON’T do this. The difference is that on this site, at least other views are allowed to be posted. I’ve been to sites on the right that don’t give a well thought out post five minutes before it’s deleted and I’m banned.
And yes, I’m aware of the insults and childish posts here, I’ve made many myself, but I get some good info by following certain posters.
I’m off to walk my dogs.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:16 pmLater Armand
Very true, Virtual Pebble, but the point remains that there are still official relations, if not normal, and our efforts will probably go through those channels. Heck! Aside from fact finding or goodwill visits there’s not much that can be legally done outside those channels. Such a move might be perceived as an end run around the U.N. as well.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:17 pmSo what you are saying is that Obama isn’t interested in gathering first hand knowledge on the situation there. He could even influence the return of the legal President.
What a wasted opportunity, don’t you think? Obama said that he would talk to any Government that wants to talk. Here’s his chance or was he just talk?
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:20 pmMebbe it’s just me, but i think that if DeMint or anybody else from the ‘opposition’ goes to Tegucigalpa and meets with ANY of the officials of the coup, they should be arrested at the airport upon their return, and their passports confiscated…
Now on the other hand, if they’re just going down there for the hookers and blow, that’d b okay…
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:20 pmWhat a wasted opportunity, don’t you think? Obama said that he would talk to any Government that wants to talk. Here’s his chance or was he just talk?
The ‘government’ is not recognized or respected by the international community. And Obama has made it clear that the United States intends to isolate Honduras until they respond to International Demands… DeMint is defying not only Obama but also the International Community at large… pretty ballsy.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:24 pmSorry but the UN has proven to be useless and (corrupt)waiting for them to act is dumb. The UN does not rule over the United States or the American people. I can find no mention of the UN’s authority over the US or its people in the Constitution.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:24 pmSomeone needs to have some balls here. “Isolate Honduras”, you mean like we did in Iran?
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:26 pmMebbe I’m just feeling cranky, but I doubt that anything Jim Deint could communicate to the Admin from his interactions with the murderous coup ‘etat in Honduras would be more than is already known by the State Dept.
this is another part of the rightard/corpoRat phux’ well-financed, orchestrated, and propagandized campaign to delegitimize Obama, provoke a Constitutional crisis, and bring down the Government, before 2012 if possible…
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:27 pmOnly stupid trolls start flinging their poo at the mere mention of the U.N. Thanks for the additional confirmation, stupid troll.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:27 pmarmand says:
So what you are saying is that Obama isn’t interested in gathering first hand knowledge on the situation there. He could even influence the return of the legal President.
How does a trip by deMint turn into “first hand knowledge” for President Obama?
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:28 pmArmand sez: I can find no mention of the UN’s authority over the US or its people in the Constitution.
the relevant passages refer to the binding power of treaties. i know it’s a subtle thing fer ya armando. just stfu and ponder it fer a spell…
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:30 pmStill can’t grasp the differnece between “legitimate government” and “illegitimate”, stupid troll? I must admit I can’t think of a single thing to add to all the above posts.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:30 pmarmand = boooooooringgggggggggggggggggg
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:31 pmSomeone needs to have some balls here. “Isolate Honduras”, you mean like we did in Iran?
Kinda, but different.
But then you don’t support these visits at all, do you?
Good argument but I don’t agree with any such visits by anyone and for you to assume that I do is just bias thought on your part.
Or do you?
I’m confused…
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:31 pmbelaccifer lacca,
I think he’s trying to say the presidency, and lawfully elected government, of our dear United States is in the hands of enemies so anything the last few Reichwing holdouts do or say is heroic and patriotic.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:37 pmarmand says:
Well you are a liar and you are a MORON. You recycled the lies and talking points that were destroyed at the TIME. Olmert snarked Pelosi but admitted that she didnt say anything that differed from Israeli policy and the Logan
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:39 pmACT was never meant to stop Congressmen from visiting other countries. It has been going on since the very begining of our country. I dont see where DeMints visit violates it either UNLESS he was undercutting stated US policy or negotiating AGAINST our policy. Keep swilling the Limborg kool-aid. I love to laugh at brainwashed morons like you
armand says:
You are a liar and a fool. Got some evidence that Pelosi was NEGOTIATING with Syria? Got any evidence she did ANYTHING WRONG? Of course you dont. In fact you dont have ANYTHING except warmed over programing from the Limborg hivemind. You are officially pathetic
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:41 pmSorry you haven’t been keeping up with the conversation. That’s not my fault. Go back and read some posts.
pete says:
——————————————————————————–
So you’re done then.
The only thing [Isolation] does is hurt the poor. The rich will find ways to get what they need, the Government will find allies but the poor suffer from the [Isolation].
Unless we talk face to face this will go on forever. The poor will suffer. So you won’t be so confused, as long as we have someone there on the ground with the capacity to talk to those in power, shouldn’t we take advantage of it.
As far as the UN is concerned, they are corrupt and have proven that time and again. I won’t be ruled by that organization in any way. You can but I won’t.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:48 pmThe only thing [Isolation] does is hurt the poor. The rich will find ways to get what they need, the Government will find allies but the poor suffer from the [Isolation].
DeMint will not be negotiating for the ending of sanctions, he has no power to do that for the United States or any other nation.
His talks are unsanctioned, undisciplined and ill advised.
I thought you were opposed to these trips on principle?
Didn’t you say this?
Good argument but I don’t agree with any such visits by anyone and for you to assume that I do is just bias thought on your part.
What exactly is your argument?
You seem very confused…
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:53 pmGood evening Eugene. I see you are still using “cut and paste insults.” If you can show me where I said she did I will give you an answer. Maybe you can show me where DeMint did anything wrong or is that too tough for you?
Remember, back up your statements with some sort of proof. Using TP rhetoric is not allowed and it has to come from an independent source.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:54 pmOh, how brave! The stupid troll won’t be “ruled by the U.N.”. I think we can assume he doesn’t plan on visiting a foreign country any time soon.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:56 pm….and he wants to see a quick resolution to the crisis, one that allows the Honduran people to resolve it through a democratic and transparent process.
Mr. DeMint, in case you missed it, the people of Honduras held an election, which is of course a democratic process. They elected a certain person as their President. A military coup is not in any way “democratic” and by going there and recognizing the usurping government, you are committing TREASON.
Just like we had a democratic process (election) to choose our leader and you and your ilk think it would be a good thing for our military to overthrow our duly elected leader.
The Republic party has become the party of TREASON.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:58 pmHe might have a point about being “corrupt”, at least to the point of unusual favoritism towards the U.S.
Any other country that behaved as we have would be facing crippling sanctions until we are out of Iraq and a few other places.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:58 pmIt’s probably worth reminding the wingnuts here of one incredibly important fact:
Not a single nation has recognized Micheletti’s government.
It’s not just us. There are good reasons for not recognizing the interim government, or else at least one nation in the world would agree with the right-wingers in America.
.
armand says:
What I mean to say is that this site posts these things to stir up the emotions of the posters here and to foster resentment toward the Republican Party.
That is precisely TP’s function. If you want comprehensive news that isn’t selected for that politically biased purpose, then I recommend trying another website. I’m comfortable with TP’s editorial slant, as I am with websites that slant the other way. It’s not like we don’t have ample consumer choice here on the Intertubes.
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armand says:
So what you are saying is that Obama isn’t interested in gathering first hand knowledge on the situation there.
Nobody said that. Whatever the State Department is trying to do, is probably best done behind the scenes. Grandstanding Congressmen make it impossible to handle the situation more carefully.
Knock it off with that “so what you’re saying” crap. Either state your opinion or STFU. You’re not well-informed enough to be putting your retarded words in your betters’ mouths.
.
armand says:
Obama said that he would talk to any Government that wants to talk. Here’s his chance or was he just talk?
Except these guys aren’t a government, unless the U.S. recognizes them as such.
.
armand says:
Sorry but the UN has proven to be useless and (corrupt)waiting for them to act is dumb.
Lie, and lie.
The United Nations does a vast amount of incredibly important things. What it doesn’t do is act as a one-world government ruling over its member nations, something I’d think that the American right wing would be glad of. However, the fact that they’re not in charge of their member nations means that their power is explicitly limited. That’s not the same thing as being completely useless, however. I find it interesting that wingnuts constantly go in for “all or nothing” thinking. In your world, we all either have to drown or die of thirst: if the U.N. isn’t a tyrannical organization that can destroy countries at whim, it’s “useless.”
In not recognizing the interim government in Honduras, the U.N. is doing something. DeMint is undermining that action.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:59 pmSorry but I never said he was. You want isolation and isolating a country only hurt the poor.
It’s too bad that you don’t know that. You don’t comprehend much do you? Try reading it again.
The only thing [Isolation] does is hurt the poor. The rich will find ways to get what they need, the Government will find allies but the poor suffer from the [Isolation].
Unless we talk face to face this will go on forever. The poor will suffer. So you won’t be so confused, as long as we have someone there on the ground with the capacity to talk to those in power, shouldn’t we take advantage of it.
Now where did I say that DeMint was going there to talk about discussing isolating the country. He will be talking though and according to our President that’s the first step.
Sorry.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:01 pmBoy, that’s worth repeating, ElBruce! Thank you!
Not a single nation has recognized Micheletti’s government.
And you don’t approve of these trips by ANYONE armand… at least that’s what you said here:
armand says:
I don’t agree with any such visits by anyone
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Did you mean just the opposite?
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:02 pmSorry but I never said he was. You want isolation and isolating a country only hurt the poor.
No- I want the illegal government in Honduras to step down, not isolation.
And then you said this:
armand says:
I don’t agree with any such visits by anyone
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Strange, huh?
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:04 pmpete says:
Only stupid trolls start flinging their poo at the mere mention of the U.N.
That’s because voluntary international coalitions that exist to promote peace, diplomacy and the well-being of all member nations is a concept that is directly antithetical to modern conservatardism.
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armand says:
As far as the UN is concerned, they are corrupt and have proven that time and again.
Citations, please.
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armand says:
Maybe you can show me where DeMint did anything wrong or is that too tough for you?
From the top of this web page:
There ya go.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:05 pmYou mean like the “food for oil” program set up by the UN in Iraq? The fish rots from the head down. Isn’t that what you said some time ago?
Don’t you Progressives believe in a one world government with Progressives running it all?
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:07 pmbackup says:
Zelayas term isnt up until January so you have NO POINT
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:10 pmWhat I want to know is, why do the wingnuts like this Micheletti regime so much? I know, I know, they’re historically for military coups all the time, but this level of involvement is just going above and beyond. Usually wingnuts only get this involved in another country’s internal affairs if there’s a specific business opportunity to be gained by some industry or another – especially in Latin America. There must be something specific behind this as well.
Was Zelaya planning on nationalizing any industries or natural resources? Was he trying to help the poor? Is there an American-owned industry who’s profits are at risk depending on who’s in charge? What kind of deals is the Micheletti regime offering to American business concerns? What’s the real story behind all this?
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:10 pmDon’t you Progressives believe in a one world government with Progressives running it all?
Not me, and ‘for you to assume that I do is just bias thought on your part.’
I read that somewhere… can you clarify what exactly your position is, armand?
For intance, what did you mean by this?
armand says:
I agree on that point, it applies to both parties, thus my objection to Pelosi’s unapproved visit to Syria during the Bush administration.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:12 pmarmand says:
You mean like the “food for oil” program set up by the UN in Iraq?
You said the entire organization was completely “corrupt.” You’ll need to show more than one brief historical example that’s been fixed in order to support that claim. If an isolated instance of embezzlement were enough to discredit the very purpose of a large organization, then there would be no organizations or corporations in the world that could evade that charge.
Essentially, you seem to be against the very concept of all of the sovereign governments of the world having an organization through which they can cooperate. I’d be interested to hear your argument about how such a concept inevitably leads to “corruption.”
Sounds to me like you just hate peace.
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armand says:
Don’t you Progressives believe in a one world government with Progressives running it all?
No.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:15 pmarmand says:
Yeah cut and paste insults is all morons like YOU are worth. You are a LIAR. If Pelosi didnt negotiate ya MORON then she did NOTHING to violate the Logan Act which you smeared her with. I know you are too stupid to know what you are talking about and are just doing your hivemind duty. SKKWWWWAAAAAAKKKKKK LOOOGAN ACT, SKWWAAAAAAKKKKK Pelosit LOOOGAN ACT. If you had the dimmest concept of what you were talking about you would just STFU and stop embarassing yourself. I guess you didnt notice that I said THIS
I dont see where DeMints visit violates it either UNLESS he was undercutting stated US policy or negotiating AGAINST our policy
In my post so your whining about what I am accusing DeMint of is just your regular brand of stupid
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:16 pmLook for a C Street connection to this.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:18 pmarmand-
Oil for food did in fact have some corruption… about 10 billion dollars worth, and I do not support that. But I do not indict the entire organization over it.
You do, I take it?
I assume then that you also do not support the Government of the United State who lost 12 billion in cash in Iraq through similar corruption?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:18 pmarmando,
are you still hanging around trying to legitimize this awkward bit of republican political theater??
i’m sorry.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:19 pmI’m sorry, armand… but you don’t seem very intellectually consistent… or conscious.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:21 pmYou brought up the isolation of Honduras not me.
And I never said I agreed with DeMint going to Honduras. What I did say was, as long as he is going there, and he is going, we should take advantage of the visit to talk to them.
What’s wrong with talking as long as we are there.
Sorry but we are going in circles.
What you want to hear is Republicans are bad, Democrats are good. Typical crap on this site.
Oh Eugene. You lie, you’re a liar, you are lying. Cut and paste insults from the Great Eugene. Funny.
You’re really impressing your following with that stuff but not me.
It’s weak minded posts from a weak mind.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:24 pmI agree on that point, it applies to both parties, thus my objection to Pelosi’s unapproved visit to Syria during the Bush administration.
and then you argued that ‘we’ should take advantage as long as ‘we’ are going…
Let me say it again… WE are not going.
WE have made that clear.
WE have made our conditions clear.
YOU are not logically consistent.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:31 pmarmand says:
You mean like the “food for oil” program set up by the UN in Iraq? The fish rots from the head down. Isn’t that what you said some time ago?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
God you are stupid and pathetic. You just reach into your Limborg grab bag for whatever talking point comes next. We were ON the counsel. EVERY food for oil deal came with OUR approval. IT DID help Iraqis and a TEXAS company was indicted for illegal dealings in it. It DID help Iraqis and there was SOME bit of corruption. Overall less than most Fortune 500 companies consider the cost of doing business
Don’t you Progressives believe in a one world government with Progressives running it all?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No. Dont you moron conservatives believe in getting as many Americans killed in useless wars as possible and starving children in the streets?
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:33 pmI’m sorry you can’t keep up. You assumed I was saying things that I wasn’t. I’m very specific in what I say. Like most people here your mind is clouded with the rhetoric of this site. It requires real reading skills and a open thought process.
It’s not your fault and I don’t think badly of you for it.
I’ll make it simple for you. I don’t agree with what he is doing but as long as he is going to Honduras we should take advantage of the situation to try and make things better.
I didn’t say anything about isolation talks. That came from you not me.
The President said that we need to talk to Countries we don’t agree with. It’s the first step in resolving our differences.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:34 pmAlso, you completely glossed over the fact that R’s visited Syria during the Bush admin. with no repercussions and that PELOSI was briefed by the White House…
That is not happening here, nor will it.
You see why I say you are not intellectually consistent? Or honest?
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:34 pmarmand says:
Hey Arm&Hammer You ARE a liar. That isnt my fault. If you dont LIKE being called I liar I have a simple solution STOP LYING. For instance. YOU are a liar. I do not want to hear5 that Reps are bad and Dems are good. That is plain stupid. I am not a Dem. I believe in decent Republicans. Also YOU cant read minds so you have NO way of knowing what I WANT. See you are just a liar. You just ENJOY lying. Its what you do. ITs who you are.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:36 pmarmand says:
OK let me make it simple for YOU. I think we should still be isolating Honduras. I doubt if DeMint violated the Logan Act and would certainly need more information before I made that claim. It IS legitimate for Congress to visit other countries it probably isnt a good thing to go to Honduras right now. Simple.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:38 pmI’ll make it simple for you. I don’t agree with what he is doing but as long as he is going to Honduras we should take advantage of the situation to try and make things better.
So DeMint is to determine when and where these discussions take place?
If not in law, at least in practice?
That’s the logical extension of your nonsense…
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:44 pmSee how you are not logically consistent yet?
It requires ‘real reading skills and a[sic] open thought process’ so you may not…
armand says:
I don’t agree with what he is doing but as long as he is going to Honduras we should take advantage of the situation to try and make things better.
Too late. The government there knows that he’s going in violation of the President’s policy. That means that any negotiations would be at a huge disadvantage, since we’re acting against one another. What we should do is have DeMint turn his treasonous ass around and let the State Department deal with Honduras without any further interference by politically grandstanding Republicans.
.
armand says:
The President said that we need to talk to Countries we don’t agree with.
Nice word substitution there. But Obama says things pretty carefully too… I’m pretty sure that your paraphrasing wouldn’t hold up to a comparison.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:48 pmYou have the Liberal talking points down Eugene.
Now for the truth:
Wikipedia.
U.N. Official Charged With $160,000 Bribe
ABC News.
It’s sad that people like yourself are blinded by dogma and rhetoric.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:50 pmbelaccifer lacca says:
So DeMint is to determine when and where these discussions take place?
More than that; the only way to follow armand’s suggestion over there would be for the White House to immediately reverse their policy to suit DeMint’s actions, then have the State Department follow DeMint’s lead and provide him whatever negotiating support he might want. Basically it would amount to rewarding him for breaking the law by putting him in charge of all America/Honduran relations.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:50 pmOctober 2nd, 2009 at 7:52 pm
The coup in Honduras was executed by its business leaders. Demint is just down there getting the inside track on the next big business opportunity, probably buying options in the newly privatized Hondu-Tel, the national cellular communications network. Money is all that matters to Republicans. Everyone else can pay up or die.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:53 pmYou’r right there. He’s so eloquent.
You’re. Sorry for the typo and you people are so strict when it’s not one of your own.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:54 pmI know. I saw MSNBC spew this stuff the other night.
I guess you got the talking point also. March in lockstep.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:59 pmgetplaning says:
The coup in Honduras was executed by its business leaders. Demint is just down there getting the inside track on the next big business opportunity, probably buying options in the newly privatized Hondu-Tel, the national cellular communications network.
Interesting… Thanks, that’s just what I was wondering.
Off to Wikipedia!
Not exactly “privatized,” but that’s probably what the Republicans are calling it.
Whenever the right wing is trying to mess with another country, look for the business interest. After all, the only real reason they don’t like Chavez was that he nationalized Venezuelan oil and gas. That’s it. There’s no other reason to be so freaked out about him. Except that some American corporations lost money because of him.
I wonder what it’s like to be a right-winger and have all of my opinions on international politics secrety dictated in boardrooms for me?
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:02 pmActually no, I didn’t get this off MSNBC. The right has long viewed Hondu-Tel as a gold mine that must be exploited by the private sector. So do you have anything to add, or are you just here to snipe?
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:03 pmPretty closed minded ElBruce. Again, what law has he broken?
Some facts are in order to back up your statement. That’s how it works here ElBruce. Sources also to back it all up.
No the President should. Lets see if he does.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:04 pmYou made a comment then backed it up with your opinion.
I guess that works for you but I rely on facts myself. Now if you can prove that DeMint is going to Honduras to make some sort of business deal then lets have it.
I’m sure the Media would be interested also if you can prove it.
If you can’t prove it then it has no merit with me or any other thinking person.
At least ElBruce tries to back things up with Wikipedia and sometimes I do also.
Wikipedia is not an unbias source because anyone can post and edit any entry there so it’s information has to taken with a grain of salt.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:14 pmarmand says:
You have the Liberal talking points down Eugene.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IF by liberal talking point you mean truth, facts and reality, then OF COURSE. Its known as knowing what you are talking about. YOU should try it sometime.
Now for the truth:
In addition to criticism of the basic approach, the programme suffered from widespread corruption and abuse. Throughout its existence, the programme was dogged by accusations that some of its profits were unlawfully diverted to the government of Iraq and to UN officials. These accusations were made in many countries, including the US and Norway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes there was definitly corruption. Just not enough for you to be anything but a brainwashed propanda parrot to say it shows the UN is worthless. Every corporation that does business overseas deals with just this kind of corruption. It is wrong. It ISNT an indictment of the entire UN.
Yeah. I am not saying there was NO corruption. It was a scandal. It is stupid to say that means the entire UN is useless. Its the kind of propaganda parrot idiocy Rush tells you to regurgitate.
It’s sad that people like yourself are blinded by dogma and rhetoric.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
What is sad is how stupid and brainwashed people like YOU are
http://www.oilforfoodfacts.org/
Volker was pretty thorough and I accept and support his criticisms. You are just a MORON who regurgitates your talking points on demand. YES it was a scandal it is TRUE however that we sat on the counsel and EVERY DEAL was made with our acceptance. To say the entire UN is worthless because of this shows what a mindless brainwashed piece of garbage you are
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:19 pmEugene, I understand that you love the UN but I don’t. I won’t be ruled by any organization. That comes from me and Not Rush. I don’t expect you to understand that because you are so closed minded. I know you tell yourself how open minded you are every day but your posts here show that to be untrue.
You post your “cut and paste insults” whenever anyone disagrees with you. Not just me but everyone who has a difference of opinion. That’s being closed minded.
Let me beat you to the punch. Liar, you lie, you’re lying, moron, idiot, and so on.
Now that’s what you do best. You should stick to it and please your groupies.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:34 pmarmand says:
I know. I saw MSNBC spew this stuff the other night.
I guess you got the talking point also. March in lockstep.
Do you have any contrary information?
At all?
I mean, why would you doubt something if you don’t have any information that says otherwise? Just because that information is inconvenient to your world view? That’s not how logic works.
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armand says:
Pretty closed minded ElBruce. Again, what law has he broken?
According to the article we’re discussing, the Logan Act. It’s up at the top of this web page and everything. Isn’t that the second time you’ve asked that?
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armand says:
No the President should.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if a Democratic Congressman took off to Iraq in, say, January of 2003 to talk things over with Saddam: should the State Department change everything they were doing to put that hypothetical Democrat in charge of negotiations with Iraq? Absolutely not.
Representatives in Congress don’t get to appoint themselves the “point man” for diplomatic relations with other countries; they certainly don’t get to expect the President to follow their lead should they do so. That would lead to utter chaos.
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armand says:
Now if you can prove that DeMint is going to Honduras to make some sort of business deal then lets have it.
That’s not how it usually works. More likely DeMint is trying to negotiate an “understanding” that would make a business deal possible. But I find it unlikely that cell phone service is such a big cash cow; usually this sort of thing only happens with major natural resources. Or does the potential cell network profitability have something to do with the high number of cruise ships that pass through the area? Just speculating here.
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armand says:
Wikipedia is not an unbias source because anyone can post and edit any entry there so it’s information has to taken with a grain of salt.
Wikipedia is really useful if there’s hardly any information on something (what’s there is better than nothing) or to check the cited sources back to more primary documents. It can be edited, but the edit history is also available, and anything shady typically gets reversed within seconds.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:38 pmArmand it isnt my FAULT you are a liar. STOP LYING if you dont like being called on being a liar. You are stupid. That is plain. The UN has been in existance for about 60 years and no more rule me or any American than Starbucks does. See you are stupid and brainwashed and YES whether it is Rush or some other screechmonkey doing your thinking for you it ISNT coming from you since it is FALSE AND STUPID. No American could take seriously that the UN rules us. That is a talking point you were programmed with because you are brainwashed and stupid. Also you are a liar. A plain liar. You dont LIKE being called a liar but you dont stop lying. You said AGAIN the Logan Act means nothing. Its because you get sheer joy out of lying. It NEVER meant Congress could not meet with other countries. NEVER. Wright met with the Sandanistas. A high level republican undercut Clintons foriegn policy in Columbia and Congress has been going to other countries since the founding of our nation. I get that you are incredibly stupid but the fact YOU dont understand what the Logan act IS doesnt mean it doesnt mean anything. It just doesnt mean what the screechmonkeys that do your thinking for you TOLD you to think it means. If YOU go to Iran and try to negotiate policies for the US YOU would be in violation of the Logan Act. My GOD you are ignorant. If you WERENT so stupid and so brainwashed you would do more than regurgiate long ago debunked idiot talking points and I would give you MORE than my cut and paste insults. Since you ARE stupid and since you ARE brainwashed you give us the same stale idiocy we have seen many times before. About the twentieth time I see the same stupid from a different poster. I get testy and morons like you dont deserve originality
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:42 pmarmand says:
Eugene, I understand that you love the UN but I don’t.
Nobody “loves” the U.N, but an international body where sovereign nations cooperate and discuss things is a good idea. If you think it’s a bad idea, then you must be against international diplomacy.
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armand says:
I won’t be ruled by any organization.
All member nations of the U.N. are sovereign states. It does not “rule” anyone. To believe otherwise is fallacious.
If the U.N. did “rule” its member nations, then it would be a brutally effective one-world government. But it is, as wingnuts are often fond of pointing out, very ineffective. Therefore, it is not a one-world government. Its ineffectiveness is due to the fact that it rules no one.
Also: are you not ruled by the United States? Do you rebuke your citizenship?
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:42 pmI don’t recall the left complaining when Nancy Pelosi went to Syria.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:45 pmConservaTROLL
Nor did the left complain when the REPUBLICANS went to Syria. It isnt the same thing. You DO know you are unbelievably stupid dont you? Tick Tock moron. Time to do the right thing
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:47 pmElBruce says:
We ruled out the Logan Act some time ago here. It doesn’t apply. I guess you missed that post from your friends.
You mean when Pelosi went to Syria against Government policy and against the White House’s wishes. Pelosi appointed herself a “Point Man” woman in 2007. Geez what chaos. We covered that here today also. I guess you missed that also.
Again. Back it up with some sort of proof. Something other than “we hate Republicans” rhetoric. That “IS” how it works here.
I use Wikipedia myself but I try and get a second source on the subject. You do what you want but Wikipedia is not always correct and shouldn’t taken at face value.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:04 pm
I was against that also. I can only answer for myself.
You do know that your insults are childish and destroy any credibility you have in the discussion.
It does please your Groupie followers. I’m not impressed with it. It’s all you have.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:12 pmNo the President should. Lets see if he does.
Armand… the President has. The rest of the world agrees with him… why are you defending DeMint, again?
Oh wait, you’re not defending him you are just wanting to take advantage of DeMint’s stupidity that you don’t support?
I’m trying to keep an open mind here, armand… you don’t make it easy.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:17 pmMaybe that is the Progressive way of seeing things in this country but I kinda like to think that the Government still works for the people and Politicians still answer to its citizens.
You think that you work for the Government and they give you handouts.
I still believe in the “We the People” concept. You are about to find out that there are many more of us out here in the next election.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:19 pmconservative guy says:
I don’t recall the left complaining when Nancy Pelosi went to Syria.
Yo cg, there’s a button on your keyboard called “page up.” Use it. Your oh-so-brilliant point that you thought up in your head has already been extensively discussed and debunked in this very thread.
Quick reiteration:
We recognize Syria as a legitimate government, and have diplomatic relations with them. We do not recognize this interim Honduran government, nor do we have diplomatic relations with them.
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armand says:
We ruled out the Logan Act some time ago here. It doesn’t apply.
We? Let me take a look… ah yes, it wouldn’t apply unless DeMint tries to influence anybody there in any way while he’s there. What are the odds of that not happening?
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armand says:
You mean when Pelosi went to Syria against Government policy and against the White House’s wishes. Pelosi appointed herself a “Point Man” woman in 2007.
No she didn’t. But I certainly wouldn’t have advocated having her negotiate with them and also try to say that the State Department should back her play so as “not to waste the opportunity.” That would be ridiculous, dontcha think?
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armand says:
Again. Back it up with some sort of proof. Something other than “we hate Republicans” rhetoric.
I’m not going to cite a source for everything I say. Otherwise I’d have to construct basic primers for all basic math, history, geography, law, economics and everything else that right-wingers tend to forget whenever it’s convenient.
I don’t hate conservatives per se. It’s just that whenever they take such an interest in one side or another of a foreign conflict, it turns out later that there’s a business interest at stake. That’s the only predictor of whether conservatives care about which brown people are killing which other brown people outside of our borders.
If Republicans were being consistent on principle, they’d care about Tibet and Burma at least a hundredth as much as they care about Honduras and Iraq. They’d care about Darfur as much as they care about Venezuela. Note how they hate Chavez with a passion but don’t care at all about Bolivia, which has a very similar leader? The only consistent difference is the potential for profit.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:22 pmI wasn’t defending DeMint. I was condemning those who have done what he is about to do. I did say that if he goes, and he will, we should take the opportunity to talk to those people in power. Just as Obama said he would do.
Stay ignorant. If you think that the rest of the world agrees with Obama then you are definatly ignorant.
Still going around in circles. Is that what you are all about?
Sorry, I can’t do anything about that.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:27 pmarmand says:
You are a liar. What you mostly have is LIES. For some reason you LOVE to lie. I have plenty more and anyone who has been here for very long KNOWS this. You are just doing what you do. LYING. As for my credibility. I hope it doesnt destroy your illusions but I just dont stay up at night worrying what you think about me. You should worry about YOUR credibility. You lie so much you cant expect anyone to take you seriously. ConservaTROLL has no interest whatsoever with discussion nor debate nor anything except heaping contempt on us. Its all he does. Its what he gets back. I couldnt possibly care less whether it meets with your approval or not. I have no groupies. In fact many of the liberals here give me grief for being so abrasive. I dont really care WHAT impresses you. Why should I. Its not like YOU are very impressive what with your weak brainwashed regurgitations and near constant lying you are basically worthless. Bring something worthwhile and you will see something besides my half awake insults and return serves. You just dont have the substance to deserve my A game. My guess is you are too stupid to EVER see it
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:30 pmarmand says:
Maybe that is the Progressive way of seeing things in this country but I kinda like to think that the Government still works for the people and Politicians still answer to its citizens.
Sure they do, that’s what’s great about democracy. But it’s a two-way street:
You do know what “allegiance” means, don’t you?
Hey, if the police were trying to arrest you because you committed a crime, would “I am ruled by none!” be your legal defense? Fact, the U.S.A. has jurisdictional authority over you. You are a citizen of it. If you don’t recognize their authority, then you are renouncing your citizenship. That’s what that means.
Now, it’s awesome that the U.S.A. is a democracy, which means that the nation is responsible to you as well. But that doesn’t mean that you don’t have responsibilities to it.
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armand says:
You think that you work for the Government and they give you handouts.
I find that ten out of ten times somebody tries to tell me what I think, they get it dead crazy wrong.
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armand says:
I still believe in the “We the People” concept. You are about to find out that there are many more of us out here in the next election.
Actually, you don’t act as if you believe in it at all, from everything you’ve said. “We the People” is what our government is made of, as a democracy. In refusing to recognize the authority of the government established via “We the People,” you exclude yourself from the meaning of that phrase.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:30 pmMo… here’s who agrees with Obama… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_crisis#International_reaction
I understand it’s Wikipedia… but you do know you can scroll down and check all those citations yourself, you know?
Ignorant?
What nation (outside of Panama and Honduras) DISAGREES with Obama?
Stay silly, my friend…
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:31 pmarmand says:
If you think that the rest of the world agrees with Obama then you are definatly ignorant.
Poll: US Image Abroad Surges Under Obama
You weren’t ignorant of that, were you?
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:33 pmarmand says:
Did you REALLY tell someone ELSE to stay ignorant? You are stupider than slimemold. The projection is precious. Your ignorance is on a galactic level. Most posters here would have to have lobotomies to even APPROACH your level of stupid. OBama IS popular in the world. Only someone as bone ignorant as YOU would dispute this. Your stupid IS amusing. I love to laugh at morons like you
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:35 pmIt seems that only people who have an opposing view are required to back up what they say here. You do what you want, I don’t care.
Democrats never take interest in foreign conflicts. There are no Democratic business men. No Hursts,(starting a war with Spain in Cuba) Immelts, doing business with the military and supplying materials to Iran.
It’s all Republicans. There is your problem. You’re myopic
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:36 pmCut and paste insults again. You do seem to project your deficiencies Eugene. Kiddy insults from a child. I understand. Nothing to say, make insults. You do need to get some new material kido.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:40 pmarmand says:
What do you KNOW. You actually made a valid point. Of course it was a weak WWWWAAAAAHHHHHH Dems do it TOO kinda thing but hey its better than you HAVE been doing. Yeah. Dems arent as bad as the GOP when it comes to immoral foriegn adventures but they are guitly too. I do remember Johnson being president when we increased our troops in Vietnam over the Gulf of Tonkin incident and that the Pentagon Papers showed the Gulf of Tonkin resolution was being written days BEFORE the indicent happened that however doesnt absolve Bush of lying to us about Iraq. Yeah. I gotta admit this is an area Dems have bloody hands too
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:42 pmarmand says:
It seems that only people who have an opposing view are required to back up what they say here. You do what you want, I don’t care.
I cite sources for extraordinary claims or new information, particularly for those that refer to specific facts. I should be able to say that 2 + 2 = 4, that the sky is blue or that we won WWII without having to prove it though.
I’d like to be able to claim that between the end of the Vietnam War and the Iraq War every President who discussed military force always stressed the importance of having an “exit strategy.” It would take a lot of research to back that up, but it used to be a common phrase that came up any time anybody discussed foreign policy anywhere. I remember because I was alive and conscious. However, the trouble with conversing with right-wingers is often that if such a claim became inconvenient to them, they’d suddenly forget it and demand you prove it. There’s no dividing line between a “commonly known fact” and an “outrageous claim” where these people are concerned.
Shall I link every word I post to a dictionary? At what level is citation required?
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armand says:
Democrats never take interest in foreign conflicts. There are no Democratic business men. No Hursts,(starting a war with Spain in Cuba) Immelts, doing business with the military and supplying materials to Iran.
Oh, there are some people who are Democrats who are economic conservatives and get involved in such things. There are some people who are Republicans who don’t. But as a party, the Dems don’t make it their consistent policy to interfere in other governments’ affairs just to promote American business interests. The GOP does.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:44 pmarmand says:
POOR stupid, brainwashed armand says WWWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHH. Try making a cogent argument. It is just pathetic for YOU to insult others like telling them to stay ignorant then snivel like the PUNK you are that we are treating YOU the way you treat us. Its WWWWWAAAAAAHHHHHHH only us cons get to insult people WWWWWWAAAHHHHHHHH God gave US the exclusive franchise on personal attacks WWWWWAAAAAQHHHHHHHHH. Grow up punk. Bring something worthwhile, until then this is all you deserve. I dont return insults from YOU with reasoned discourse as IF you had made an actual cogent argument
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:45 pmEugene says:
Hell, he can’t even impress the French. England thinks he’s naive. Iran thumbs their nose at him. Germany just went Conservative in their last election and Denmark just laughed at him. Russia thinks he’s weak, Pakistan thinks he’s an easy mark for funds. Poland didn’t appreciate his stabbing them in the back on the aniversity of the Russian invasion of their country.
South America thinks he’s a joke.
Ya, he’s loved all over the world.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:49 pmYour last post was right on topic Eugene. Kids stuff. I’m not impressed. You lost the argument quite some time ago and now insults are all you have left.
Yes, you are ignorant. This post proves that. Project much?
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:53 pmarmand says:
See you are a LIAR. Its what you do. ITs all you DO. You just get sheer JOY out of telling lies. Germany has BEEN conservative. Merkel is a center right politician you MORON and she was chancellor during BUSH. You are just a punk and a moron making baseless assertions that you were TOLD to think. You KNOW you are too stupid to think for yourself so we get what RUSH told you to regurgitate. Do you at least realize how pathetic you are? Bush was sneered at and laughed at worldwide since he was a moron. Obama IS popular. YOU are just a liar. Good luck with that
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:56 pmYou’re outclassed Eugene. Insults are all you have. You are an expert whiner though.
I think I’ll call you “The Whiner” from now on.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:57 pmarmand says:
You were never IN the arguement PUNK. I just amused myself slapping the stupid out of you. I have mopped the floor with you WHEN I have condescended to answer instead of just slapping you like the lying ignorant punk you are which is all you deserve. I do love the way you insult us then whine so piteously it would embarass a six year old girl that we insult YOU. My GOD you are stupid
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:59 pmarmand says:
Call me whatever you want. What do I care. You are a liar and everyone knows it. You are stupid and you are a punk. You insult us then snivel like a punk that we insult you back and you call ME a whiner. WWWWWAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH is about half of your posts.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:00 pmWell if you won’t act without asking the UN first it does appear that way. Your a liar.
NO, it was one of your fellow Liberals here who said that. Go read it for yourself. If you’re capable of such a thing. You’re a liar.
You are certainly one to judge originality. In your mind. You lie.
Kids stuff.
Like Pelosi did in 2007 in Syria you mean. You’re a liar.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:09 pmThanks whiner, does that mean I have your blessing?
You lie, you’re a liar, you’re lying. Go change your diapers, whiner, I can smell the crap.
I didn’t insult anyone who wanted to have a conversation. The insults, like yours, came from those who didn’t like an opposing view. I started out with the Hypocrite comments because those who posted before me were being hypocrites.
You lie. Whiner.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:17 pmEugene, you’re not very good at this are you?
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:19 pmarmond… you are officially a joke.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:20 pmarmand says:
Well if you won’t act without asking the UN first it does appear that way. Your a liar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We signed the UN Charter it was ratified BY our Senate which makes it the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND. Equal to all Federal laws. That charter gives us the obligation to attack another country ONLY under two circumstances. One IMANENT ATTACK under article 51 OR with a mandate from the UN Security counsel. We AGREED to that. It is part of OUR soveriegnity that we can make agreements and decent countries honor their agreements it isnt that I am a liar. It is that YOU are a MORON. Most people learn these things in 8th grade civics classes. I dont know WHAT people as ignorant as YOU do.
You said AGAIN the Logan Act means nothing.
NO, it was one of your fellow Liberals here who said that. Go read it for yourself. If you’re capable of such a thing.
My GOD you are so stupid you cant even remember what YOU wrote like you wrote THIS in post number 76
What a bunch of hypocrites you all are. The Logan act means nothing, at least it didn’t when Nancy Pelosi went to Syria
Again I am not a liar you are just astonishingly STUPID
Like Pelosi did in 2007 in Syria you mean.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I asked you before to SHOW that Pelosi NEGOTIATED ANYTHING. you responded that you didnt say she did. In FACT she did NOT. So AGAIN. I am not a liar but you are so stupid it litterally boggles the mind. AND you are a liar. A bone ignorant liar and a VERY stupid fool
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:22 pmarmand says:
Oh I dont know. I might not be VERY good but I am ten times better than a brainwashed moron like YOU at it
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:24 pmThanks. That means alot coming from you. It means I’m right. You must be a Eugene Groupie. He really does stink at this doesn’t he? Such a whiner and his material is so old.
You lie, You’re a liar, You’re lying. Kids stuff.
It must be really sad to be him. No imagination.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:26 pmarmand says:
You are a LIAR you told belaccifer lacca to stay ignorant and HE was having a conversation. I just started out with calling you a liar and a MORON because you were LYING and you are obviously a MORON. So I have the same excuses as YOU the difference is I dont snivel like the punk YOU are that you insult me I just return serve. YOU insult people then its WWWWWAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH you guys are being mean to me WWWWWWAAAAAAHHHHHHHH thats you ArmandWWWWWWAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:27 pmarmand says:
How often do I have to point out to you that you are STUPID you dont deserve imagination. Bring something. It is so funny to watch you LIE AND LIE then snivel like the punk you are that I point out the obvious fact you are a LIAR. Oh by the way. Its GREAT to be me. I have a great job a loving wife and a good family. I am well liked and respected at work. Everyone should be as blessed as I am. Also I am bright enough I dont have to LIE CONSTANTLY to make arguments like YOU DO
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:30 pmCould it be ArmandWWWWAAAAHHHHHH that you are SO stupid you dont get how pathetic and how absolutly easy you are?
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:32 pmI posted that earlier. You run along and try and find it like a good little whiner. You’re a liar, you lie, you’re lying. She was actually negotiating for Isreal at the very least she was their mailman. Aint that a kick in the pants.
You run along now. You’re not that good at this.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:32 pmarmand says:
My GOD you are stupid. Is the Logan Act an ISRAELI LAW? NO? Then it wouldnt be in any way interfering with US foriegn policy to give Syria a message for Israel? Yeah. Thats right it wouldnt. Are you trying to see just how stupid you can possibly be? So she was NOT negotiating US policy. Actually being a third party sending messages between parties not talking to each other officially is the way diplomacy has been done for centuries. Poor ArmandWWWWWAAAAAHHHHHH you just LOVE to lie and hate to be called on LYING. Must suck to be you. I suggest you stop lying if you are so sensative about being called a LIAR. However good I am at this it is clear I am ten times better than a brainwashed moron like YOU is at it
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:37 pmNot as easy as you are whiner. You sound like a parot.
You’re not very good at this stuff are you? The name calling only justify what I say here. It also shows that you are breaking down and cant cary on a cogent conversation any more.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:38 pmarmand says:
Hell, he can’t even impress the French. England thinks he’s naive. Iran thumbs their nose at him. Germany just went Conservative in their last election and Denmark just laughed at him. Russia thinks he’s weak, Pakistan thinks he’s an easy mark for funds. Poland didn’t appreciate his stabbing them in the back on the aniversity of the Russian invasion of their country.
South America thinks he’s a joke.
Earlier we discussed citing sources. It’s appropriate for some things, not for others. For example, a specific claim that would surprise someone should be backed up with some kind of evidence, whereas basic-knowledge claims need not be. Earlier I looked up a worldwide poll demonstrating the strong uptick in Obama’s popularity worldwide. You just made a long series of outlandish claims (except for the one about Germany) that just scream for some kind of evidence. Because it looks an awful lot like you made all that up.
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armand says:
Like Pelosi did in 2007 in Syria you mean. You’re a liar.
We aren’t in opposition with Syria, no matter how much the likes of Bill Kristol would like things to be otherwise.
Significant differences are significant.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:41 pmarmand says:
I am ten times better at this than YOU are ArmandWWWWAAAAAHHHHHH. You are stupid face it. I cant believe what a pathetic punk you are. When YOU call us names its all well and good when I call you names BACK its because I cant carry the conversation? Actually you arent WORTH having a convesation with. You are a liar a fool and a brainwashed moron. I just amuse myself slapping you around
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:47 pmElBruce says:
And Germany didnt TURN conservative because of Obama. Merkel is NOT a progressive she is from a center RIGHT party. The guy is a joke. Not a single relevant thing from that ranty delusional list made a lick of sense
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:49 pmSo you know nothing about Syria in 2007. I’m not surprised.
Try google, maybe you can read about it. Then you might try CBS News or read what has been poste here already,
Whiner.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:49 pmElBruce says:
Syria was cooperating with us quite well in fighting terrorists. Pelosi was basically there to carry an overture from Israel. Nothing having ANYTHING to do with the Logan Act. Which is why Bush didnt throw a fit only rightwing screechmonkeys and their programmed choir did.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:51 pmAs usual ArmandWWWWAAAAHHHHHH it is YOU that knows virtually NOTHING about ANYTHING. Though we had concerns 2007 was a year we saw a lot of increased cooperation from Syria on terrorism
http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2007/103711.htm
Although the Syrian government suspended intelligence cooperation with the United States and several foreign governments in 2004, Damascus has taken some action against AQ-linked groups and individuals in 2007. Additionally, the Syrian government worked to increase security cooperation with Iraq. In July, Syria hosted a meeting of technical border security experts representing Iraq’s neighbors, the United States, and other countries. Syria also participated in two ministerial-level Iraq Neighbors’ Conferences in May and November, in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, and Istanbul, respectively. In August, Syria hosted Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki and signed several security-related agreements. According to U.S. and Iraqi officials, 2007 witnessed a marked reduction in the flow of foreign terrorists transiting through Syria into Iraq.
Despite acknowledged reductions in foreign fighter flows, the scope of the problem remained large. According to the December “Measuring Stability and Security in Iraq” report to Congress, nearly 90 percent of all foreign terrorists known to be in Iraq had used Syria as an entry point. The Syrian government could do more to stop known terror networks and foreign fighter facilitators from operating within its borders. Separately, the Syrian government has cracked down on pro-Kongra-Gel/Kurdistan Worker’s Party (KGK/PKK) sympathizers in northeastern Syria, and President al-Asad expressed his public support of Turkish military action against KGK/PKK militants operating in southern Turkey and northern Iraq.
The Syrian government refused to implement mandatory visa requirements for citizens
You really are stupid. ArmandWWWWWAAAHHHHHHHH
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:56 pmIt’s not my fault that you can’t understand the written word.
They turned conservative Germany because they didn’t like the Socialist programs in the country taking all their money. The people have spoken in Germany and the people here will also have a chance to speak out next year.
The Democrats have jumped the shark and have to pay the price.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:57 pmArmandWWWWAAAAHHHHHHHH
My GOD you are stupid this is what you said
Germany just went Conservative in their last election
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
NO THEY DIDNT MORON. Merkel had been their Chancellor for years and SHE was a conservative. Just how stupid are you anyway?
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:01 pmOh by the way ArmandWWWWAAAAHHHHHHHH the last two elections HERE you cons got EPIC buttkickings so keep hold of your crystal ball its all you have. THIS isnt Germany and the GOP isnt looking too good.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:03 pmBlah, Blah, Blah, Blah. What a selected convoluted piece of garbage, Not on topic and rambling.
Your post has nothing to do with the conversation. You ramble on so.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:03 pmSEE ArmandWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHh YOU are a LIAR. El Bruce says we were NOT in opposition to Syria. YOU said he knew NOTHING about Syria in 2007. I show from a STATE DEPT SITE that yes we WERE cooperating with Syria in 2007 and you answer is it was off TOPIC? REALLY? WOW. Stupid AND a LIAR. The wingnut daily double.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:08 pmI tell you what Armand. You want a conversation without insults. I am willing. Back off your personal attacks and bring a real argument I will do the same.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:10 pmYou keep that thought. We are depending on you folks doing what you’re doing. Have you been living in a cave or have you been believing all that Liberal garbage this place feed you day after day?
We are depending on you here. Keep it up. Many in the news media have been forced to report the scandles because they are losing their audience en mass. No one wants to here your message any more. They don’t like the hate you show for the common man and the elderly. Those people actually vote in every election even mid term. What was Obamas win? 52% George Bush one with 51%. It’s the centrists, elderly, and independents who elect the Presidents and Congressmen. You people have pissed off both groups this summer.
See ya.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:14 pmarmand says:
So you know nothing about Syria in 2007. I’m not surprised.
Try google, maybe you can read about it.
Well, let’s just say I’m referring to our actual foreign policy status with that nation at the time, rather than FOX “News” attitude towards them.
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EugeneDebs says:
Pelosi was basically there to carry an overture from Israel. Nothing having ANYTHING to do with the Logan Act.
That’s kind of toeing the line… to be honest, she shouldn’t have. Third-party diplomatic negotiations are still diplomatic negotiations, even if they’re pro-peace.
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EugeneDebs says:
NO THEY DIDNT MORON. Merkel had been their Chancellor for years and SHE was a conservative. Just how stupid are you anyway?
It might be more accurate to say “Germany went slightly more conservative than they already were in their last election.”
Man, they sure love Obama over there, btw.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:17 pmarmand says:
And YOU keep being a brainwashed jerk. Keep lying and being a moron. keep regurgitating what RUSH told you to think. Keep pushing the stupid. The GOP brand polls worse than any minority party in recent history
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/assessing_the_gop_brand.php#
The CBS results (not shown) are even more dramatic. In June, when the question was most recently asked, Republican net favorables were -30% and Democratic net favorables were 25%, which swamps the comparable results from the previous cycles.
In short, there’s no question that the GOP party brand is in worse shape than any opposition party in recent memory.
Yeah Rush has brainwashed morons like YOU making noise. You are still a small minority. Just a very loud very stupid one. So keep believing your propaganda. The Dems will keep control of the House and Senate next election. Its that simple. Not quite as simple as YOU but pretty simple
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 pmAnd why would I ever want to have a discussion with a person who just spent his last 20 posts insulting me and calling me names?
You lost your chance for today. Maybe some other day when you’re more civil to me.
Reposting my comments would be a waste of time for me. I don’t like covering the same ground more than once. My thoughts are already posted here. I won’t repeat myself more than a dozen times. It wastes my time to do that and it’s late.
Sorry whiner. I don’t really care for people like you.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:21 pmElBruce says:
No not really. Carrying an overture for Israel can in NO WAY be considered a violation of the Logan Act. It IS the way diplomacy has been done for centuries and we were talking about it in the context of the Logan Act. I didnt see anything wrong with the Republicans going there. I didnt see anything wrong with Pelosi going there. If I did I would say so. I have no problem slamming Dems and Pelosi has some serious shortcomings. I just dont see this as one of them.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:23 pmOK, I get it now-
-since all republi-Scum get their “news” from the FoKKKs cloaca, served up hot, steamy and stinking,
and they are for conserving the status quo,
-if Greta, or Constitutional Scholar Hannity, or Herr Beck, say it’s so,
it’s so.
And since FoKKKs is ‘fair and balanced’ they told us so-
PS-
I just read this narcissistic nutcase’s tweets- he’s certifiable. spews crap every 15 minutes or so, all day long
Impeach him now so he can have his FNC hour with the rest of his ilk.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:23 pmOh BITE me ArmandWWWWAAAAHHHHHH the first post of yours I read was calling us hypocrites. You are such a PUNK. Its FINE for you to insult us but you are nothing but a crybaby if we return serve. I dont care beans what you think of me. I have made it CLEAR I think you are a LIAR and a brainwashed moron. If you want to keep up a flamewar thats fine because I can beat you like a redheaded stepchild ANY WAY YOU WANT IT. You cannot TAKE this to a level I will not take you apart like a cheap watch. You are stupid. You are brainwashed and you have NOTHING except a whole lot of WWWWWWAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:26 pmEugeneDebs says:
Carrying an overture for Israel can in NO WAY be considered a violation of the Logan Act. It IS the way diplomacy has been done for centuries and we were talking about it in the context of the Logan Act. I didnt see anything wrong with the Republicans going there. I didnt see anything wrong with Pelosi going there. If I did I would say so.
Well, I’d just say that’s more of the sort of thing I’d tap an ex-President for, or somebody else who isn’t currently holding any official position. That’s usually the way that sort of thing is done.
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armand says:
You lost your chance for today. Maybe some other day when you’re more civil to me.
armand, I’d like to formally introduce you to EugeneDebs. Now that you’ve met, you hopefully know what to expect going forward.
Usually when one of these threads devolves to me, Eugene and a conservative, between my “high road” approach and his “low road” approach, the neocon typically loses they mind within 20 posts and breaks down into complete incomprehensibility. One of the reasons I tolerate his “rhetorical style” is that it works so well in combination with my own. Sort of a good cop / bad cop routine. I will say this for you – you’ve held up pretty damn well against it this session. We may have to break out the waterboard. ;)
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:35 pmBack to your old ways. How long did it take? 16 minutes. So sad. “The Whiner” can’t keep his word. Threats now. At least it’s different from your old crap.
It’s still kids stuff.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:37 pmElBruce says:
Its done many ways. During the Cuban missile crisis we used a journalist who had the contacts. Bottom line we were talking about this in the context of the Logan Act and there isnt any way to say Pelosi was impeding the Executive Branch foriegn policy.
You TOLERATE ME? Thats pretty condescending. What happens when you dont tolerate me anymore? Look I think you are a good poster. Smart, knowledgable and pretty tolerant of con BS. As you well know I take a different tack. IF this guy had been reasoned I would be too. He was calling us names right off the bat. I just dont do transitions. To me either you are talking the issues or you are making personal attacks. I see no value in a proportional response. If they are calling us names it is on. I have NO patience for those who call us names then snivel that I call them names back.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:42 pmArmandWWWWAAAHHHHHH. You are still a LIAR. I said IF you back off YOUR personal attacks I will do the same. You called me a whiner in your post. On what world is that YOU backing off your personal attacks? So your entire premise as usual is ludicrous and you are LYING AGAIN. Why do you lie so much? Why is it you just love to lie all the time? See I dont need to tell outright lies to make MY points. You are stupid. So you do.
Why do you think God gave YOU the exclusive franchise on personal attacks? Why is it you cant see what a punk you are when you call me names then snivel in a way that would embarass a girlscout that I turn around and call YOU names? You really are pathetic on all levels.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 pmWhat threats? That I will beat you in a debate like I did all night tonight? That is a threat to you? Man you are a punk
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:46 pmI was more civil than Eugene was. Others here have had conversations with me without the crap that Eugene uses when he doesn’t get his way. He whines and then post insulting crap. He does it to everyone he disagrees with not just me.
It’s childish and week.
Plus he’s not very good at this.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:52 pmArmandWWWAAAAHHHHHHH. I am a whole lot better at it than you will EVER BE. You were calling us names. I dont see the value in a proportional response. To me you are either talking about the issues or you are being a jerk and calling us names. You called us hypocrites in the first post of yours I saw then whined like the punk you are that I called YOU names. See it isnt that you dont like namecalling. You DO IT. you dont like it that I am better at it than you. Face it. you are stupid and you are a punk. At any level of debate I will clean your clock. Its that simple in deference to
you
Again and always it seems YOU ARE A LIAR. I disagree with backup all the time and I rarely insult him. I usually do not because he talks about the ISSUES without calling us names. Perhaps you should try THAT some day. The whole thing of calling US names then snivelling like the punk you are that we call YOU names is weak and pathetic
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:57 pmNot a single nation has recognized Micheletti’s government,
except for DeMint’s nation:
The Neo Confedrate Nutjobs of America
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:58 pmSlow night eh armand….
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:02 amEugene,
I did all afternoon until you arived for the most part.
Your nonsense changed the whole conversation. Your a hatefull little boy who has to have things his own way. When you don’t get it you start in with the insults that you “cut and paste” from somewhere you have them saved at. You’re the sniveling one here. Such a whiner also.
I called a hypocrite a hypocrite. Terrible me. You’re a weak person and a whiner with a childs mind.
Sorry, It’s not my fault.
You aren’t very good at this are you whiner?
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:12 amFor us all I guess.
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:17 amArmandWWWWAAAAHHHH you are such a punk. It isnt YOUR fault. Yes you DID call us names but its still soooo mean that we would call YOU names. You calling us names is fine and you called us hypocrites BEFORE my first post you LIAR. Thats not your fault. It is all OUR fault for calling you names BACK. It is our fault that we wont just let you be the ONLY one that gets to call people names. No one should ever call YOU names only YOU should call US names. It isnt your FAULT. My GOD you are pathetic. And I am ten times better at this than you will EVER be. That is a plain fact ArmandWWWWWAAAAHHHHHHHHH
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:21 amYou called a hypocrite a hypocrite and I just called a liar and a moron a liar and a moron but its COMPLETELY different because…well because it isnt YOUR FAULT
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:29 amEugeneDebs says:
You TOLERATE ME? Thats pretty condescending.
Hey, you tolerate me. Nobody’s in charge of anybody else here.
.
armand says:
Your nonsense changed the whole conversation. Your a hatefull little boy…
Getting to you ain’t he? The spelling is the first thing to go.
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:40 amArmand, you have been working this thread for eight hours. Are you getting paid for this, or do you simply have no life? Just wondering.
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:57 amDemint’s mission smacks of that divorced parent tactic where one undermines the other in order to get more love and approval from their kid.
armand says:
——————————————————————————–
What was Obamas win? 52% George Bush one with 51%.
Man, on the surface that doesn’t look so good now, does it? That is, until you get the REAL facts, which is Obama 52.9% to McCain’s 45.7% (+7.2% Democrat preference) versus Bush’s 50.7% to Kerry’s 48.3% (+2.4% Republican preference). Facts tell a whole other story, don’t they? Why yes, yes they do.
October 3rd, 2009 at 1:05 ambluesunflower says:
Bang, zoom. Good point blueflower
October 3rd, 2009 at 1:12 amgetplaning says:
Armand, you have been working this thread for eight hours. Are you getting paid for this, or do you simply have no life? Just wondering.
Masochist. Most of them are.
October 3rd, 2009 at 2:11 amSo you all line up with the ex-president wannabe Castro/Chavez/Morales, who was deposed by constitutional means, and replaced by a member of his own party.
That’s consistent with your devotion to President Pixie Dust and every position He holds, no matter how inane, but please explain to me how it is consistent with a democratic Honduras.
October 3rd, 2009 at 3:32 amlibsarefun says:
So you all line up with the ex-president wannabe Castro/Chavez/Morales, who was deposed by constitutional means…
If they’ve got military coups written into their constitution, that’s got to be one wacky document!
And I don’t “line up” with anybody there, I just admit that I don’t know enough about the local situation to try to personally override the State Department, as DeMint is doing.
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libsarefun says:
please explain to me how it is consistent with a democratic Honduras.
The dude who got elected got violently banished by people who weren’t. You do know what the definition of “democracy” is, right?
October 3rd, 2009 at 8:42 amJim (Dimwit) DeMint’s Jan Fonda moment.
October 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 amThat’s consistent with your devotion to President Pixie Dust and every position He holds, no matter how inane,
October 3rd, 2009 at 11:09 am—
Another cogent argument? I think I will have to call bullshit on yet another poser…
At what point does DeMint’s defiance cross the line into the commission of treasonous acts. Will he be called to task on it by his GOP peers and right-wing media? No. By the Justice Department? Probably not. By Congress? Who can tell these days? Harry Reid had better start cracking the Congressional ethics whip or he’s going to lose complete control of the Senate. It might be time to replace Reid if he can not deal with blatant insubordination bordering on possible treason of some cowboy ‘wing-nut’ from South Carolina.
October 3rd, 2009 at 11:42 amImpishparrot says:
At what point does DeMint’s defiance cross the line into the commission of treasonous acts.
Well, if he seeks to influence any of the political issues there, that would be a violation of the Logan act. I don’t know what other reason he has to be going there, unless he just wants to hit the beaches on the taxpayer’s dime.
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:19 pm@ 227. armand says: “pete says: Very true, Virtual Pebble, but the point remains that there are still official relations, if not normal, and our efforts will probably go through those channels. Heck! Aside from fact finding or goodwill visits there’s not much that can be legally done outside those channels. Such a move might be perceived as an end run around the U.N. as well.” Sorry but the UN has proven to be useless and (corrupt)waiting for them to act is dumb. The UN does not rule over the United States or the American people. I can find no mention of the UN’s authority over the US or its people in the Constitution. October 2nd, 2009 at 6:24 pm
I’m not particulary concerned with the UN, Armand.
Pete, I think we probably have back-channel (ie, informal) discussions going on with the Hondurans, both the guys that started this coup and with Zelaya. I didn’t mean to imply anything other than the fact that our formal position is that normal diplomatic relations and aid programs are at a stop until this is properly resolved and that our present position is that Zelaya was improperly removed from office.
Obviously, we can change our position on either Zelaya’s removal and/or our diplomatic position at any time. Certainly, we still recognize Honduras as a sovreign state, and what the coup leaders and Zelaya do is their own internal business. I don’t see any problem in standing with the other members of the OAS in demanding that the coup leaders correct the situation and restore the properly elected government before returning to ordinary diplomatic relations.
I empathize with the idiots that ran this coup; assuming that the constitution of Honduras DOES make it illegal for the President to propose overturning the term limit that applies to him, then he may have been off base in trying to fiddle his way there with a referendum, unless that’s a legitimate mechanism in their constitution for amending the constitution.
OTOH, if what he did was really illegal, why didn’t they arrest him and put him on trial instead of throwing him out of the country.
Something smells about this business.
October 3rd, 2009 at 1:06 pmVirtual Pebble says:
OTOH, if what he did was really illegal, why didn’t they arrest him and put him on trial instead of throwing him out of the country.
Something smells about this business.
Hey, I hadn’t thought about that – good call. If the Supreme Court did fully authorize the coup, then I’m sure they wouldn’t mind holding him to a trial. They could then rule as part of the verdict that he was to be removed from office, and appoint an interim successor. If they had done that, they probably wouldn’t have lost diplomatic relations with the rest of the world.
October 3rd, 2009 at 3:46 pmAin’t nothing finer
than a boob from South Carolina.
In a more rational time, Mr. Demented would have been fusilladed at sunrise. Treason is treason, no matter how much lipstick you put on your favorite fascist pig.
October 3rd, 2009 at 5:26 pmJust like CIA Agent outing criminal Cheney; another traitorous Republican. Traitorous Pig.
October 4th, 2009 at 12:18 amDry Run
October 3, 2009
Senator Jim DeMint’s (R-SC) visit to Honduras to meet up with the de facto Honduran President Roberto Micheletti is a defiance of the US government. This sound serious for Senator DeMint, but it isn’t. The stick of choice in preventing the Senator from such a stunt is called the Logan Act. This law forbids any unauthorized citizen of the United States from negotiating with foreign government, especially, in contrary to our government’s established foreign policies. But even with my limited knowledge of this law, it speaks volumes. To begin with: both the State and Defense Departments did not truly prevent Senator DeMint from making the trip—even commandeering a plane, provided by the Pentagon. Other Americans, outside of government, could have been charged through the Logan Act but weren’t either. They are: Sean Penn, Michael Moore, Jimmy Carter, Jane Fonda, the list goes on. Of course, putting the above mention on trial would have exposed our foreign policies’ duplicity and criminal intents. Despite the Obama administration’s cutting back Honduras’ non-humanitarian aid and military visas, it didn’t prevent DeMint from rushing to Mricheletti’s aid. Is the Logan Act weak or just any administration can exercise it—or not, at the convenience of political or economic expediency?
October 4th, 2009 at 12:41 am@ 365. ElBruce says: “Virtual Pebble says: OTOH, if what he did was really illegal, why didn’t they arrest him and put him on trial instead of throwing him out of the country. Something smells about this business.” Hey, I hadn’t thought about that – good call. If the Supreme Court did fully authorize the coup, then I’m sure they wouldn’t mind holding him to a trial. They could then rule as part of the verdict that he was to be removed from office, and appoint an interim successor. If they had done that, they probably wouldn’t have lost diplomatic relations with the rest of the world. October 3rd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
That’s part of the smelliness IMO. The media reports I’ve seen say the Honduran Supreme Court ordered Zelaya’s arrest. Since they operate on the Napoleonic or Spanish judicial model, that’s not a surprise; judges in that sort of system, as we know, function as much as prosecutors as they do adjudicators. But that’s where it goes funny. Instead of holding him for trial or binding him over for whatever passes for impeachment, they just have the army hustle him out of the country. That makes me think the term limit thing and the referendum or ‘electoral consultation’, as some have referred to it, is just a legal fiction, cover for simply wanting the guy out. They, whoever the junta actually is, didn’t want to assume direct control of government badly enough to whack Zelaya, but they didn’t want him around, either.
It probably has to do with what amounts to the Honduran oligarchy not wanting to go down the Chavista road, which is something that Zelaya purportedly wanted.
Of course, DeMint is in Honduras to stir up whatever shit he can. I also think that he probably had to pay a price to have DOD aircraft put at his disposal; he’s probably going to have to give up a hold or two he may have on a presidential appointment, or Mitch McConnell will have to pry one loose from someone else. People that make the kind of trouble DeMint makes don’t get freebies from the administration or the majority leader, not if the administration or majority leader’s office has a few people with their wits about them.
October 4th, 2009 at 1:54 amI have one word for Mr. DeMint: TREASON.
Why the media hasn’t grabbed a hold of this and other recent actions taken by the Republican Party, to act against its own country’s best interests is simply stunning not to mention horrific.
October 4th, 2009 at 4:45 amName calling seems to be such a favorite pastime for this blog.
A “fact finding trip” where no negotiations are being contemplated is not against the law.
As a former first lady once said “Since when has it been part of American Patriotism to keep our mouths shut!!”
From what I can see of this blog, these lefties believe freedom of speech can only be had by Dems, calling someone unpatriotic can only be done by Dems, intelligent debating points can only be made by dems and name calling can only be done by Dems.
October 4th, 2009 at 11:20 pmVirtual Pebble, most news reports I’ve read state if ex-President Zelaya was to step foot in Honduras again, he would be arrested and put on trial. That is why he won’t return without assurances.
October 4th, 2009 at 11:26 pmOOOPSisaMORON says nothing worth reading
The way I see it you are a moron. A liar, and a fool. There is no freedom of speech issue here. DeMint cannot interfere with the executive branch conducting foriegn policy. THAT is the law. This is no more a freedom of speech issue than you giving secrets to an enemy would be. You conservatives NEVER understand what freedom of speech is about. It seems to me that you think ONLY the left calls names, or that we should just let ONLY the right call us unpatriotic. Until I see you taking the Coulters, Savages, Limbaughs and the like to task for name calling you are just a hypocrite and a brainwashed moron who wants the left to unilaterally disarm
October 4th, 2009 at 11:49 pmWow! All Congressmen and Congresswomen should not interfere with ANY executive branch foreign policy. I guess all that stuff about Dems being against the war in Iraq was all in FAVOR of the administration policy. Any when the Dems stated the war in Iraq was lost and we should pull out all of our troops now, that had nothing to do with foreign policy.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:25 am@ 372. Oops says: “Virtual Pebble, most news reports I’ve read state if ex-President Zelaya was to step foot in Honduras again, he would be arrested and put on trial. That is why he won’t return without assurances.” October 4th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Try to stay current, Oops. Zelaya has been in Honduras, physically, for a week or so. He’s holed up as a “guest” at the Brazilian embassy. The Honduran government is trying to pressure the Brazilians into turning him over, without success, so far; if he requests asylum, they may stop, or maybe not. My understanding is that he was smuggled into the country over a back road, in the trunk of a car while crossing the border.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:57 amVP, you just proved my point. The Honduran government is trying to get the Brazilian embassy to turn him over for trial, just as I said.
October 5th, 2009 at 1:04 amVirtual Pebble says:
It probably has to do with what amounts to the Honduran oligarchy not wanting to go down the Chavista road, which is something that Zelaya purportedly wanted.
This sounds like what’s really behind the whole thing; it would explain why Republicans in America are taking sides so strongly. Normally, a situation like this shouldn’t concern us to such a degree. But if the Honduran oligarchy is against Zelaya, then so is the GOP.
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Oops says:
A “fact finding trip” where no negotiations are being contemplated is not against the law.
I suppose so, but I doubt if DeMint can find out anything himself that he couldn’t get from a CIA briefing. It’s not like he’s going to go undercover and sneak around and discover information that can’t be got any other way. About the only tangible thing he could possibly do would be to negotiate with some of the parties involved, which would be illegal.
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Oops says:
I guess all that stuff about Dems being against the war in Iraq was all in FAVOR of the administration policy. Any when the Dems stated the war in Iraq was lost and we should pull out all of our troops now, that had nothing to do with foreign policy.
That’s right, having an opinion on a war is exactly the same thing as going there and conducting your own negotiations. (not really, that’s an insane thing to believe)
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Oops says:
VP, you just proved my point. The Honduran government is trying to get the Brazilian embassy to turn him over for trial, just as I said.
Why’d they kick him out of the country first, I wonder? Sounds like a pretty big mess to me. Let’s send a bunch of Congressman down there and have them independently wing it instead of leaving it to the State Department! (not really, that would be monumentally stupid)
October 5th, 2009 at 2:22 amDe Mint does not represent the U.S.
He represents the traitorous Neo Confederate States of America.
He and his ilk are still fighting the Civil War and their rage at the thought of a n***** in the White House destroys any reasoning ability or common sense in their thinking and actions.
These people are dangerous, treasonous and anti-American.
October 5th, 2009 at 9:45 amJohn Wilkes Booth is probably a hero to some of them.
Is Obama in charge or not.
More troops to Afganistan.
Wire-tappping still in efeect.
Gitmo still open
No Single Payer and probably no public option.
Still in Iraq
Patriot act not recinded
We have been “Punked”.
Vote Green
October 5th, 2009 at 10:37 amNah, just passing time with some ignorant Progressives. You qualify. If you attack DeMint for doing what Pelosi did in Syria then you are a hypocrite like all the others here. Just another Progressive idiot marching in lockstep.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:37 pmAdd Pelosi on that TREASON list. She did the same thing as DeMint except worse. She went to Syria to deliver a message for Israel. You sure are an ignorant one. You need to get away from this site and join the Real World. I know you won’t. You’re too full of hate and follow the Party Line like they do in Russia and the former Soviet Union.
If the Logan Act didn’t apply to Pelosi then It doesn’t apply to Demint. Get over it.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:51 pmEvery time you post your crap like this you just prove that you truly are the ignorant one here and a moron with nothing to add to the discussion. I’m afraid that you are ignorant and IT IS YOUR FAULT.
October 5th, 2009 at 1:02 pmYou’re not very good at this stuff are you?
I enjoy reading what the Progressive hatemongers are posting. The real masochists are you Liberals who think they can hold their own with a real free thinker. I never have a shortage of idiots who spout their brainwashed dogma post to me.
Just like you ElBruce. March in lockstep.
If DeMint commited TREASON then Pelosi did also. Lets get rid of both of them.
October 5th, 2009 at 1:21 pm@ 377. ElBruce says: … “Oops says: VP, you just proved my point. The Honduran government is trying to get the Brazilian embassy to turn him over for trial, just as I said.” Why’d they kick him out of the country first, I wonder? Sounds like a pretty big mess to me. Let’s send a bunch of Congressman down there and have them independently wing it instead of leaving it to the State Department! (not really, that would be monumentally stupid) October 5th, 2009 at 2:22 am
Dang it, ElBruce, ya beat me to it. I was gonna ask why Zelaya zigzagged back into the country without those assurances Oops thought he would require, too, but just the fact that they’re trying to flush him out and arrest him is kind of low comedy. After all, they had him in custody once when they threw him out.
Then there was that stupid border confrontation that played out over several days when Zelaya was on Honduran soil, along with some rock throwing supporters, as I recall, while the Honduran government was there in the person of border guards and Army troops, all armed. They probably could have arrested him then, perhaps not without bloodshed, but then again, they’ve been getting bloodshed and ill-will in this seige of the Brazilian embassy.
The oligarchy probably would have been better off at the outset if they’d simply had the Supreme Court tell Zelaya that “No, you can’t have a referendum so that you can constitutionally be president-for-life”, and then tied him up in a knot in court until the end of his term. Oligarchies, however, like most committees, have a strong tendency to reflect the stupidity of their least intelligent member. It’s a lowest common denominator effect.
October 5th, 2009 at 7:07 pmThank you for your sharing.!
October 7th, 2009 at 3:39 pmRepublicans like their military dictatorships. It’s an ideological thing. They like their authoritarianism. lazer epilasyon
October 9th, 2009 at 9:20 am