Media Disregard Substance Of Michael Moore’s Film — Instead Engage In Character Assassination
Media Disregard Substance Of Michael Moore’s Film — Instead Engage In Character Assassination
Today is the nationwide release of Michael Moore’s new film Capitalism: A Love Story. The film chronicles how free market capitalism has created a system of “legalized greed” which corrupts government, removes basic elements of humanity from business, and has torn down the middle class. While Moore uses personal stories of individuals abused by corporate excess to create a narrative, he also explains much larger, sweeping problems like the rapidly widening gap between rich and poor.
As Moore has toured the media circuit promoting his film, hosts and pundits have worked quickly to try to marginalize his message. Rather than attack the substance of his film or debate the issues he raises, media figures are attempting to destroy Moore’s credibility. The most common trope has been to cast Moore as a “hypocrite” for being successful while at the same time criticizing capitalism. The other attack is to simply ridicule and mock Moore as an “extremist.” Business media in particular has been disdainful of Moore, accusing him of seeking “slavery.” Moore was scheduled to host CNBC’s Power Lunch, but was booted off shortly after six minutes. ThinkProgress has compiled a video of some of the character attacks on Moore. Watch it:
While Moore certainly has critics, in the past, much of the anti-Moore media assault had been orchestrated by powerful corporate interests. Bill Moyers Journal obtained two powerpoint presentations outlining in detail exactly how the industry coordinated an effort to marginalize Moore and the impact of his film SiCKO:
– Position Moore as “fringe” to stop any Democrats from embracing points he raises.
– “Position SiCKO as a threat to the Democrats’ larger agenda.”
– “Amplify the industry’s voice around the film’s release … outreach to broadcast and cable TV news.”
– “Create media tool kit on industry’s positions, strong track records, etc.”
The campaign to smear Moore has reemerged. Will the media ask serious questions about the failure of free market capitalism, or will they simply engage in character assassination against Moore?
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Media Disregards Substance Of Michael Moore’s Film — Instead Engage In Character Assassination
DAMN that librul media!!!!
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:38 amLet me break the ice:
HE’S FAT!!!!
*eyes rolling*
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:39 amI never could have anticipated this.
Those damn liberals.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:39 amMedia Disregards Substance Of Michael Moore’s Film — Instead Engage In Character Assassination
– - Well sure, if ya can’t kill the message, kill the messenger.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:40 amEvery time the so-called mainstream media slams Michael Moore — he wins.
They are terrified that the sheeple will notice they haven’t been doing their jobs for a very long time.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:44 amNext to the Right wing nuts, the MSM is becoming the Fifth State….pushing lies, half truths and setting there own adgenda for the purpose of controlling the masses on behalf of the corporate facsists.
WE ARE NOT BUYING THE BULL SHIT YOU ARE SELLING ….DID YOU GET THAT MSM????EST CNN…F**KEN IDIOTS
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:45 amOk, I’m guilty of occasionally thinking Moore pushes things a little further than necessary to make his point. But in this day and age, it’s the only way to get the message so perhaps he’s onto something here, especially if the boys at Wall Street are campaigning to sideline him.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:45 amThis headline could have been released after any of these movies. And it’s a shame – for most of them, I’ve thought “a conservative could really get into this if they would actually sit down and watch the whole thing.” 90% of the points he makes aren’t particularly liberal, they’re just populist.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:49 amUSNclerk says:
Ok, I’m guilty of occasionally thinking Moore pushes things a little further than necessary to make his point.
His “surprise people on the street” stunts are just dumb. I think they detract from the rest of his movies, and they’d be better if he’d just cut those portions. Unfortunately, the trailers for this new one are almost entirely made of those segments.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:50 amA common meme here is THE MEDIA.
They are not our friends.
They are not objective.
They are owned in their entirety by a handful of rich White Wing Capitalists who will do or say anything to protect their domain.
Moore represents a huge threat to them if his message resonates with the public at large. He knew he’d be slammed six ways to Sunday over this film, & he’s strong enough to take it.
Michael Moore should be getting the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Bush gave Irving Kristol the Presidential Medal of Freedumb.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:51 amHis “surprise people on the street” stunts are just dumb. I think they detract from the rest of his movies, and they’d be better if he’d just cut those portions. Unfortunately, the trailers for this new one are almost entirely made of those segments.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:52 amI can buy that. Actually I quit watching him after his first two movies.
He stands up for people, and I like him.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:52 amThat person who cannot keep the benefits of his labor is a slave?
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:53 amI saw Michael Moore asking banks and investment banks for the TARP money that We the People provided. Is going on the dole what they consider to be labor? Perhaps misappropriation of those funds is the labor that they do.
These on camera loudmouths comprise the substance that cries out for elimination through the body politic’s colon.
Media Disregards Substance Of Michael Moore’s Film — Instead Engage In Character Assassination
– - Of course these wingnuts also slammed David Cunningham and his dishonest tripe, The Path To 9/11. Suuuuure they did.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:55 amMoore has apparently made a commitment to support any district or state in their attempt to field a strong liberal candidate to run against the DINOs voting against health care reform.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:55 amWill the media ask serious questions about the failure of free market capitalism, or will they simply engage in character assassination against Moore?
I can’t believe you really asked that question, TP. All you have to do is listen to Morning Joke on MSNBC or the stooges on the Faux Network, and even CNN.
They are, afterall, part of the landscape of huge corporations with interests at stake.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:56 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
No reply to the truth in the message, so ‘attack the messenger’!!!
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:59 amQuick, gentlemen, we’ve got to protect our phony baloney jobs!!
larkohio says:
——————————————————————————–
He stands up for people, and I like him
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:59 amI do too, I stopped him watching while I wasn’t quite aware enough of how bad things were to believe the garbage people pull in the name of money. Now I don’t watch them because it just pisses me off, so I watch movies so I can escape.
Corporate owned news programs attacking a guy for making a documentary on how greedy and corrupt our capitalistic system has become…didn’t see this one coming.
Moore should have simply stated to Wolf that while he has enjoyed success in our capitalistic system, he has done it on his own. He didn’t ask for billions of dollars in bail out money, he didn’t earn his money through no bid government contracts, he doesn’t deny anyone health care, he hasn’t screwed the public or any stock holders or steal any workers pensions.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:01 amWill the media ask serious questions about the failure of free market capitalism, or will they simply engage in character assassination against Moore?
Will the sun appear as a giant talking clam tomorrow morning, clattering its way across the sky whilst reciting random lines from Monty Python sketches, or will it simply rise in the east looking like the usual miasma of incandescent plasma?
Only time will tell. Only. Time. Will. Tell.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:01 amOh…..I was just thinking about how many empty wingnut heads would simply explode if President Obama was to award Michael Moore the Medal of Freedom……
Ahhhhhhh. That’s nice.
I think I’ll send the prez an email and ask him to do just that. Anyone care to join me…?
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:06 amThese critics make me sick to my stomach. Greed is good. What will take down our country besides the hateful, fear mongering, divisive right wing rhetoric….greed.
Corporations own our government. Corporations write our laws. Corporations have more rights than an individual. Corporations have no loyalty to our country. There loyalty is with Mammon.
The love of money is the root of all evil.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:06 amThere = Their
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:07 amActually, when we realize that we wouldn’t be able to afford health insurance outside our current employment gig, it does feel a little (**a really big little**) like slavery.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:08 amAnnie, you are secondededed….
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:09 amWhen the Truth is found…
Everyone will know that our 2 Party system has failed completely.
Balance cannot be achieved politically until a true 3rd Party emerges.
Blue Dogs are Republic wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Democracy cannot work for ‘we the people’ with just left & right. Three is the minimum to achieve balance and harmony.
2010 would be an opportune time to see a 3rd Party that focuses on the needs, wants & wishes of ‘The Center’.
Names are important. Message is more important. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if America could achieve the political balance needed to highlight the hypocrisy of both fringes?
Other Countries have achieved this. It’s time we did, too…
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:09 amIt’s shaping up to be a banner day for the trolls — a global warming thread AND a Michael Moore thread, all before noon!
Eat up, me hearties!
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:12 amWill the media ask serious questions about the failure of free market capitalism, or will they simply engage in character assassination against Moore?
————————————————————–
Free market capitalism….? Someone should ask the slave laborers in third world countries and in sweat shops how free capitalism is.
If corporations had their way we would all be working for peanuts, fifteen hours a day, seven days a week with no vacation, sick leave, health insurance or a safe work environment.
How about switching to FAIR market capitalism?
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:13 amgummble-bee-itch says, “Moore has apparently made a commitment to support any district or state in their attempt to field a strong liberal candidate to run against the DINOs voting against health care reform”.
There are still too many “Joe Liebermans” in the Democratic Party. I don’t understand why Al Gore chose Lieberman as a running mate. Or maybe I do but it’s not politically correct to criticize Liebermen.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:14 am“incandescent plasma” — I like that, toasterhead; it’s gonna be the name of my next garage band (I’ll give you proper credit…).
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:14 am“Will the media ask serious questions about the failure of free market capitalism, or will they simply engage in character assassination against Moore?”
TP, you gotta stop throwing softballs like this one…since the media are owned by the denizens of “free market capitalism”, I think we all know the answer to this question even before it’s asked…
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:16 amThe fact that the msmedia is attacking Michael Moore with this much hostility only means there is a lot of truth to what he’s pointing out in the movie.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:16 amThe libs support the clean version of capitalism, paying $5 to go see flabby Moore’s movies (he’s FAT FAT FAT!).
We like to play it dirty; if you think too much about “social responsibility” you miss out on squeezing out a few more bucks. You have to be a zealot to squeeze the turnip. You must leave no stone unturned. Crushing groups to get $$ is the new normal, get over it.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:17 amMichael Moore is a jackass, but he’s OUR jackass.
Regardless of his personality, the above referenced jackals can’t attack his films on substance. They know they’re on the losing end of the debate.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:17 amConsidering the fact everyone of his documentaries has been on point it is no surprise he is being attacked. Too bad the people commenting and attacking are not as worried about this Nation as Moore is.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:18 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Say…aren’t these the same media corporations who in the early 1990’s went after Ross Perot because he warned everyone that if we pass NAFTA and GATT, there would be “a great sucking sound” when our jobs and factories left the country?
Please, say ‘taint so.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 amTP asks: Will the media ask serious questions about the failure of free market capitalism, or will they simply engage in character assassination against Moore?
The MSM is beholden to big corporate interests like a street whore to her pimp. Free-market capitalism is their steady stream of johns and income. They will do everything in their power to protect that income.
This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
Just saying…
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:21 amDoes the MSM know this is a “Love Story”
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:21 amGeorge Will pulls stuff out of his a$$ and gets respect from the media and Michael Moore is attacked even though he has his facts in order.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:21 amUSNclerk says:
I can buy that. Actually I quit watching him after his first two movies.
They’re still worth it. In the actual movies, those portions only take up a small amount of time, good for going to the bathroom or getting popcorn. The rest of them can be incredibly informative. And overall they’ve gotten way better after the first two, IMO.
.
chiroptera toasterhead says:
Will the sun appear as a giant talking clam tomorrow morning, clattering its way across the sky whilst reciting random lines from Monty Python sketches, or will it simply rise in the east looking like the usual miasma of incandescent plasma?
You know, if the right wing thought they could score a political point by claiming that the sun did that yesterday, they would.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:22 amYeah, because the Right has shown that what they truly value is objectivity, regardless of the conclusions to which that objectivity leads.
Oh, wait — no they haven’t. I was thinking of somebody else.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:22 amZimzone @ 27
————————————————————-
While you speak the truth about the need for another legitimate political party in this country, it will never happen. Our one party with two wings political system has all but assured this will never happen with all of their redistricting.
Corporate owned media will not give a third party the time of day and the DCCC and RNC which control the presidential debates in our country will never allow a third party candidate to attend a presidential debate…just ask Ralph Nader.
What we have is a beast (corporate owned government) with two wings. The left wing may appear to throw more crumbs to we the people but in the end both wings are beholden to the interests of the beast.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:23 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Moore fights back, including a few good kicks to the balls. Thank You Michael. Rep. Grayson also showing a bit of spunk. Keep this up and we could have a real rumble and it’s way past due.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:26 amaaronk says:
If Michael Moore’s research in these documentarys was truly objective, as opposed going in searching for a particular outcome, he would probably gain more credibility.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:18 am
___________
That’s so true. I mean, he completely glosses over all the POSITIVE aspects of a complete global economic collapse. Why not teach the controversy, Moore? Maybe some people WANT to be unemployed, eh?
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:26 amMaybe he’ll go to the wh and call for Obamis long-form birth certificate.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:26 ambackup says:
The Constitution is 18th Century, but it’s still relevant.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:25 am
_____________
No it isn’t. Not all of it, anyway. Or do you still count black people as 60% human and believe only white male property-owners should have the right to vote?
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:28 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The Right is Wrong again.
Chicken Little Paulson wrote a $700 Billion dollar check to the some of the richest people in our Country a year ago.
Moore is seen in the movie standing outside of Goldman Sachs, asking for his money back.
If it wasn’t so terribly sad, it would be hilarious.
Is Michael Moore the last of true investigative journalism?
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:30 amThe media has been left with little else for choice. Should they seriously engage in fact checking they would be forced to conclude that the underlying data is factually correct. The hypocracy is on the part of the media for not doing their assigned duty of fact checking and then reporting on those findings. Rather, they bow to their corporate sponsors and attack the character of Moore which actually provides a testiment to Moore’s work by taking the low road of a scoundrel.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:30 amNo big surprise, the corporate owned media attacks Moore because he attacks the system that allows the corporate owned media to exist. Moore accepts the attacks because he knows every time some bozo on CNN/FOX/CNBC goes off on him another theater fills and his message gets out. Not a perfect system but after years of Republican and “business” Democrat control of the FCC that is pretty much what we are left with.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:30 amWhat the GOP REALLY means … says:
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:31 am———————————————————
You are a phucking idiot!
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
backup says:
“I need to see the movie, but I’m confused by the premise.”
The ticket window is that little room in the front of the theatre, just before you get to the snack counter.
Then go through the opening between the velvet ropes, and give your ticket to the kid in the funny suit.
He’ll tell you which door to go in.
Check your seat for spilled soda pop before you sit down….
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:34 amchiroptera toasterhead says in response to, “The Constitution is 18th Century, but it’s still relevant.” No it isn’t. Not all of it, anyway. Or do you still count black people as 60% human and believe only white male property-owners should have the right to vote?
Toaster, if you insist on taking shots at Republicans and their ideals, I refuse to take issue with those types of statements.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:35 amI’ve heard people in person get mad at Michael Moore for making money on his movies while being angry at capitalism. As people on both sides of the political divide have pointed out though, what he’s actually railing against isn’t capitalism per se, it’s corporatism.
If Michael Moore actually made money in the same way he’s complaining about, you’d pay $100 a ticket to see his movie because all the news outlets were telling you that his theatre was the only safe place to be when the asteroids hit. Once in, there’d be an additional $50 surcharge to sit in a seat (standing is not allowed), plus $10 per hour to make the fire exits available to you, and another $75 should you need to actually use one. And that’s a bargain, since the real fire exit charge is $20 per hour and $150 per use, but the government subsidizes half of that so that people don’t die by fire. Popcorn would cost $10 for the first 20 pieces, and $.35 per additional piece that you eat out of the bag. Don’t worry if you can’t keep count, they’ll do that for you. If buttered, it’s $15 for the first 12 pieces and $.65 per additional piece. Using the restroom is $200, but they’ll bill you so that’s OK. The full legal print of the restroom contract is printed on a small card taped to the back of the restroom mirror; by entering the restroom you agree to all of its stipulations. The fine print on the back of your ticket (on the part they tore off when you entered) explains how they aren’t actually obligated to show you a movie at all, so they won’t. And then they’ll need a billion dollars from the government because they’re not making any money for some reason, and if the movie fails it’s planning on taking the entire film industry down with it.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:37 amSTORM, the ‘Little Troll That Couldn’t.
Keep trolling, FoxSucker, someday you’ll be allowed in the sandbox, too.
If ‘The Drugster’ had half of Moore’s intelligence, he wouldn’t have to lie, pout, scream and shout 3 hours a day.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:37 ambackup: The Constitution is 18th Century, but it’s still relevant.
Love thy neighor is 1st Century and it’s still relevant.
Capitalism (and Socialism) may have deficiencies, but just because an idea is old, doesn’t mean it’s not relevant.
You can’t tell the difference between religion and economics? A political system and an economic system?
Stop and think this through before you go plunging off in search of another sophomoric exercise.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:37 ambackup says:
How do you make an economic system democratic?
If I go into McDonald’s, do I debate with the other customers and then vote on what the price and quality should be?
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:28 am
____________
In a sense, yes. In a true capitalist system, the price and quality is set by the market – the consumer. If consumers want better quality in their Quarter Pounder, they have the right to demand that the McDonald’s corporation make a higher-quality Quarter Pounder. If they don’t want to pay more than $1.99 for it, they won’t. If they want to demand that the tomatoes used in that Quarter Pounder are picked by people who earn a living wage, they have the right to demand it.
In some cases, such as the latter example, corporations actually listen and actually respond to consumer demands.
In most other cases, though, such as AIG gambling on credit-default swaps with their customer’s money, there is no democracy. Or in insurance companies denying coverage due to recission. Or multinational corporations laundering money offshore and decimating Niger Delta villages with pollution. The consumer has no say in what the company does. We can protest and write our representatives and stage boycotts, but the company will just find another loophole or lobby Congress to make their unethical practices legal.
That’s undemocratic capitalism. That has to change.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:38 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
200+ years and we still haven’t had a political party which truly fought for the best interests of we the people.
Is it just a coincidence? Nope. The wealthy and foreign interests have assured of this since the 1800’s. I give the democrats some credit in standing up for the American people but in the end they are also swayed by the deep pockets of the corporations.
We still have politicians such as Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold, Patrick Leahy, Sherrod Brown, Marcy Kaptur and Dennis Kucinich to name a few who seem to get it and fight for we the people, but they are lone voices surrounded by bought and paid for corporate shills.
The day the late great senator Paul Wellstone was MURDERED was a day when the voice of the people truly died.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:40 amUncle Fester Lurks says:
Zimzone @ 27
————————————————————-
While you speak the truth about the need for another legitimate political party in this country, it will never happen. Our one party with two wings political system has all but assured this will never happen with all of their redistricting.
Probably the only way to change the outcome is to change the system. We need a better election system, one that gives us winners that have a true majority of the votes (see ranked choice voting) and one that gets the corporate money out of elections. A shorter campaign period may help, and elections that take place over a period of a few days including a weekend day would help.
Standardized, improved, rational voting regulations would help, instead of every state having their own, often arcane system. And everyone should be automatically registered to vote — why isn’t this the case?!
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:40 ambackup says:
I need to see the movie, but I’m confused by the premise.
Sounds like it. I was actually surprised to find out that by the end of Bowling for Columbine, he wasn’t actually advocating gun control laws at all. Farenheit 9/11 wasn’t a “truther” movie like you might expect. I find usually that when I assume he was going to take an extreme and simplistic position, the film he makes ends up actually covers the issue with surprising complexity and respect for the middle ground.
This one seems to be about the mortgage bailouts, btw.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:41 ambackup says:
“If I buy a ticket, am I promoting evil?”
Probably less than trying to sneak in under the ropes.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:41 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The media ALWAYS mis-characterizes, marginalizes and attacks Michael Moore. And conservatives’ habit of calling him the “Rush Limbaugh of the Left” is a tired old canard. Moore is an Oscar-winning film maker, he runs numerous film and art festivals, he takes part in numerous charities and he is a family man – never divorced from his first wife.
Limbaugh is a pill-popping, law-breaking philanderer who just squeezes air through his blow-hole every day behind a microphone. We also know that Limbaugh has trouble getting a hard-on.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:42 amUncle Fester Lurks says:
You are a phucking idiot!
You are correct.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 amI agree. The corporate influence used to bypass competition is undemocratic.
Ideally, Companies would be allowed to fail. They would face consequence for their malfeasance.
Competition is generally healthy. Corporatism is not.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 amHave any of you noticed that given that we have more news channels, and more news hours than ever in our history, we actually get less news than ever before in our history?
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 amSTORM says:
Michael Moore is nothing more than the Rush Limbaugh of the left.
I’m with you, storm. But you forgot to mention that even though both are on a diet, they are still fat and overweight.
BTY, what’s your take on Moore’s claim that the average CEO pay has gone up 550 times that of the average worker pay, compared to about 40 times before Ronald McDonald Reagan was president?
Just asking.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Uncle Fester Lurks says:
What the GOP REALLY means … says:
________
Unka? Word?
GOP REALLY means is a parody troll… and a very good one at that…
Now… STORMFRONT… aaronkkk… con guy… REAL TROLLS…
But GOP REALLY means… not so much…
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 amLook at where the money Micheal Moore makes on his movies, and then look at where it goes.
Into making another movie, addressing the next issue.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 amStorm, you ignorant troll. Michael Moore is actually, truly concerned for the people, all people of this country. He is concerned about how our capitalistic system has run amok.
Rush Limbaugh on the other hand doesn’t give a sh*t about our country or any of us, he only cares about himself, the far right and the millions of dollars he makes while spewing his hateful right wing rhetoric on our public airwaves.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:46 ambackup says:
Moore’s argument that the ideas require replacement or updating due to their age, doesn’t make sense.
What makes more sense to me is society collectively choosing attributes of different economic theory that best address their current circumstances.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:32 am
_____________
Well, think of it this way. The modern system of capitalism we know dates back to the Industrial Revolution. Before such things as child labor laws and worker protections and safety standards and the abolition of slavery. And while this system has had to conform to some legal changes along the way, the underlying principle is still the same – the sole purpose of the corporation is to make a profit. There is only one way to measure the bottom line, and that’s money.
I’d argue that there are other factors in that equation. There are human factors, environmental factors, community factors. Why don’t we measure the cost of pollution in corporate Annual Reports? Or the damage to mom-and-pop stores in a big-box retailer’s financial statements?
If we take the myopic view that a company’s worth is only measured in profit, we’re not getting the whole picture.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:46 amElBruce.
Regardless of political leanings, Michael Moore is important.
Regardless of whether he’s right or wrong, he is the impetious for a lot of debate in our country.
For example, the Sicko movie and the WHO heathcare rankings by country is/has been used in our current healthcare debate.
Moore causes people to think and discuss new ideas.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:47 amElBruce: “I was actually surprised to find out that by the end of Bowling for Columbine, he wasn’t actually advocating gun control laws at all.”
Right. If people payed any attention at all, they might have noticed that he pointed out the fact that there is more per capita gun ownership in Canada than there is in the U.S. His point was clearly that the media stokes an atmosphere of fear, racism and loathing and gins up the violence. That’s why the media tried to bury the movie and why they were upset when he won an Oscar for it.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:47 amNow we need a movie about “When free market business meets not for profit government”
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:48 am“K Street and lageslature love” A money orgy.
It should be a “blow” by blow” of the life of a bill, such as health care and narrated to show the seantors firas speech, then enter the lobbiest, the how the senators rhetoric changes, show how much bribe……..er, campaighn contribution was given , then how the ahole senator voted.
Its up to bloggers to figure this out and shine a light on the bribes, the MSM will not. They get bribes as well
Yep, we knew that if the US didn’t get the Olympics, wingnut trolls like erronk would celebrate.
Wayne Campbell: Party on, Garth!
Wingnut Trolls: Party before Country!
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:48 ambackup says:
Competition is generally healthy. Corporatism is not.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 am
______________
Exactly. And that, I believe, is the message of the movie. Not that “capitalism is evil,” but that our current system is inherently uncompetitive.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:49 amCZ-1 says: Uncle Fester Lurks says:
Thanks for your comments.
Repeating the same thing time after time and expecting different results is called insanity. (Sorry, Einstein.)
That’s pretty much what’s up with our 2 Party system. Look at health care reform. We’re going to see the corporate rich get richer while our young will be eaten alive by ‘mandatory insurance’ requirements.
America’s democratic ’stool’ needs a 3rd leg. We’re unbalanced and in danger of tipping over. Capitalistic greed
is running rampant and out of control. Short term gains are preferred over long term benefits and again, our young will be obligated with the debt burdens.
Perhaps America’s youth will emerge with a 3rd Party. Perhaps Americans will be allowed to vote online in the future, eliminating the need entirely for elected congresscritters.
It’s ironic that the people adamantly against government health insurance are the ones getting government health insurance.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:49 amNow we need a movie about “When free market business meets not for profit government”
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:49 am“K Street and the Lawmakerse love” A money orgy.
It should be a “blow” by blow” of the life of a bill, such as health care and narrated to show the senators firas speech, then enter the lobbiest, the how the senators rhetoric changes, show how much bribe……..er, campaighn contribution was given, then how the ahole senator voted.
Its up to bloggers to figure this out and shine a light on the bribes, the MSM will not. They get bribes as well
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
aaronk: “Chicago has been voted out of the Olympics running. Good thing Barry & Michelle flew over there, on seperate government jets to seal the deal. Bang up job guys!”
Well, I guess this is a great day for conservatives, right? We lost! We lost! The country lost the Olympics! Yeah!
You got to love conservatives these days. Just adorable.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:50 amAnd unregulated capitalism (without consideration given to the factors you mention) is tantamount to anarchy.
There is a sweet spot that I believe is constantly changing. We need the engine of capitalism to be productive, but we need socialist influence to ensure our humanity.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:50 amElBruce hit the nail on the head. I have seen nothing from Moore indicating that he opposes people making money off the fruits of their labor — which is pretty much how the man on the street would define capitalism. He has a major problem with the economic elites having their thumb on the scale by dictating tax policy, gutting regulation, securing no bid government contracts for services the government could provide more efficiently and using the treasury as a personal piggy bank when they get into trouble. The current system is akin to letting the mafia write the penal code yet the same law and order crowd that wants to lock you up for having a joint insists that businessmen will play nice without sensible government oversight. The hilarious thing is that those same people will insist that Michael Moore is the one blinded by ideology.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:51 amJoe Sixpack says:
BTY, what’s your take on Moore’s claim that the average CEO pay has gone up 550 times that of the average worker pay, compared to about 40 times before Ronald McDonald Reagan was president?
___________
Ssssssssssh… he’s busy counting…
Notice he has both shoes off…
“Elebenty-twelve… elebenty-fourteen… no, no… thas wrong… les see… this li’l piggie went to market… this li’l piggie got into the Oxy…”
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:53 amPolitically Superior Guy: “I can’t believe you libs don’t see the irony of attacking capitalism via making a major motion picture about it.”
This kind of shallow, ham-handed response was predictable. If you know anything at all about Moore, and it’s pretty clear that you don’t, you know that he is a capitalist through and through. This may be hard for a mind as closed and stunted as yours to understand, but there are a variety of different kinds of capitalism. Moore is in complete accordance with capitalism. It’s just that Moore favors real capitalism – the kind Adam Smith talked about in Wealth of Nations.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:53 amzxbe says:
Have any of you noticed that given that we have more news channels, and more news hours than ever in our history, we actually get less news than ever before in our history?
—————————————————————-
That’s part of the goal. Distract, divide, and bombard us 24/7 with garbage. A good sheep is a clueless sheep.
As long as the corporate controlled media and government has us fighting amongst one another over the left/right paradigm, abortion, gay issues, he said, she said, they win. United we could take back our country, divided we fall.
Welcome to the United Corporations Of Amerika. Home of much greed, land of the naive.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:53 amSTORM says:
How can this guy be taken serious when the very system he is railing against allows him to make films like this and become extremely rich? Its a great example of what extreme hypocrites reside in the company of the left. do as i say not as i do.
His railings are not against making money or getting rich, storm. Its directed against the wealthy corporations who squeeze the common man for every nickel in order increase profits and shovel the money UP, not down.
That is something Michael Moore did not do to the people that work for him. See his movie, pal. And quit parroting the rightwing talking points.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:53 amAll apologies to the parody troll…the other knuckle dragging right wing neanderthals can pound sand.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:54 amConservatives hate truth…makes them look bad.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:54 am9.5 million people in the greater Chicagoland area and now not one extra job coming there from the Olympics. And you reich wingers are cheering. Phu(ck you and the horse you rode in on dirtbag.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:55 amA parody troll and RNC’s trolling director!
How the heck did I get this job, TRoS? Interviewer Goodling maybe missed a few points …
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:55 amNinerFan says:
That’s why the media tried to bury the movie and why they were upset when he won an Oscar for it.
_________
But… but… that just proved that Hollyweird is run by Commies!!!
And he’s fat!!!
And… and… Roman Polanski!!!
And… and… Michael Moore’s fat!!!
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:55 amWell, that’s because you are a reactionary twit who reduces every situation to its most simplistic and cartoonish elements in order to frame it in any way that favors the regressive position.
The only exception to this pattern that I have seen is when you flip the script and overly complicate matters when a right-wing politician or issue would be damaged by clear-eyed observation.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:56 am#17 joedee1969 says:
“People get sick of all the lies.”
Then he posts a link that indicates his own subscription to them. Imagine that.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:56 amWhat the GOP REALLY means … says:
A parody troll and RNC’s trolling director!
How the heck did I get this job, TRoS?
__________
Budget cuts, my man… budget cuts…
We’re ALL doubling up and carrying a heavier load these days…
Don’t expect a let up until at least 2013 or 2017… depending on which rightwing pundit you choose to take seriously…
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:58 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
President Obama tried to get the Olympics held in the U.S.
That’s better than not trying to get the Olympics held in the U.S.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 amIt’s obvious the corporatists are putting the hammer down on this one……..I live in Portland, OR, which has a metro area of about 1.75 million (incl. Vancouver, WA) and the movie is only showing in about 3 or 4 places, as opposed to crappy movies like “Surrogates” and other mindless films are showing in every major theatre in the area. Naturally, if there is a film out there that makes us think or activate, the big wheels are gonna supress it.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 amSTORM says:
How can this guy be taken serious when the very system he is railing against allows him to make films like this and become extremely rich? Its a great example of what extreme hypocrites reside in the company of the left. do as i say not as i do.
————————————————————
How can STORM be sooooo ignorant to not understand what Moore’s movie is all about? How can STORM be so stupid to fail to see that the very thing that Michael Moore is exposing and trying to fight actually affects STORM and all Americans not just democrats, liberals or progressives.
Way to fight for those who continue to rape the American tax payer and commit fraud against we the people to gain their profits…..IDIOT!
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 amSTORM says:
How can this guy be taken serious when the very system he is railing against allows him to make films like this and become extremely rich?
I addressed this question in comment #60, above. Please try to keep up.
.
aaronk says:
Off Topic: Chicago has been voted out of the Olympics running. Good thing Barry & Michelle flew over there…
Your argument is that because failure is possible, it is futile to even try. Interesting.
.
dannylauve says:
Now we need a movie about “When free market business meets not for profit government”
“K Street and lageslature love” A money orgy.
Actually, I think a lot of that is in this movie as well.
.
Politically Superior says:
I can’t believe you libs don’t see the irony of attacking capitalism via making a major motion picture about it.
I addressed this question in comment #60, above. Please try to keep up.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 amUncle Fester Lurks says:
All apologies to the parody troll…the other knuckle dragging right wing neanderthals can pound sand.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:54 am
__________
Not to pick nits, but neanderthals were not actually a knuckle-dragging species, evidenced by the fact that their legs are longer than their arms. It is believed that they were fully bipedal.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:02 pmFirst off, no apology needed. We live in a time of tough problems and not everyone will have patience for such mockery.
But get this, not one of my floor trolls has challenged my assertion of “What the GOP REALLY means …” Not one.
My apologies to Chicago, maybe Obami should have delegated the task to William Ayers.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:02 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
As Uncle Fester Lurks points out, that’s by design.
Need proof? Just look at the news ticker they all use (and have used since 9/11). Studies have shown that viewers actually retain less information when they view news reports that also feature the news ticker.
So news networks are consciously providing a product that appears to offer more information but actually leaves viewers less informed. Clearly, “informing the public” is not their top priority.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:04 pmPolitically Superior says:
Isn’t it ironic that libs hate when the right calls moore “fat”
I don’t hate it. He’s a fat guy. Also hairy, and dresses like a trucker. He looks like he don’t smell so good. But he still makes awesome movies…
I understand when people dislike someone they tend to pick on irrelevant characteristics – Moore and Limbaugh’s weight, Coulter’s adams-apple, Cheney’s hooves and tail… that’s just how people lash out, by going after personal characteristics. But at the end of the day, irrelevant characteristics are still irrelevant.
.
glogrrl says:
It’s obvious the corporatists are putting the hammer down on this one…
Woo, Portland!
Check this out. In Detroit, the GM tried to ban Moore from attending his own premiere, as they owned the theater.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:05 pmHow dare President Obama take one day out of his busy schedule to represent our country and try to land the summer Olympics for one of our cities! How dare President Obama try and land an event which would bring jobs and billions of dollars to our economy. He should just stay on his ranch and cut brush.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:06 pmMoore had free showings for the unemployed in many cities yesterday before it even opened to the public. And he also had fundraising screenings where donations went to the out of work. There is no way Republics can understand his motives so they shouldn’t even bother.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:06 pmIf Political Posterior truly thought… at all, he would recognize that it is possible to criticize the abuses of a system without condemning the system itself.
But Political Posterior seems incapable of anything resembling complex thought and so relies instead on knee-jerk reactions to cartoon villains.
And that’s why we find his contributions here the source of so much amusement.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:07 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Politically Superior says:
If moore truly thought capitalism was wrong, he would’ve made the movie all on his own, then uploaded it to the internet so everyone could watch it for free.
I addressed this question in comment #60, above. Please try to keep up.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:08 pmBombBombBomb Obamaran says:
____________
I love this sort of whining nonsense.
What pointless trolls like this one fail to realize is the truly competitive nature of the film industry. It really is free market capitalism. If people DON’T LIKE Michael Moore’s films, they don’t have to go see them.
Michael Moore succeeds as a film maker because some people LIKE what he says. For what they are, Moore’s films have been very successful in the marketplace, whether or not you like them.
It’s not like going to your favorite Congressman and slipping him an envelope full of money to throw your company a sweetheart deal.
I know… I know… THAT passes as “free-market capitalism” in some circles these days…
But Michael Moore is the one really taking the chance. Films come out and flop completely all the time. The backers can lose every single penny they put up. It’s darn near impossible to fix the box office for a film… unlike, say, healthcare, where the big insurance films spend MILLIONS each day, trying to buy legislation.
In summation… stop whining and go compete with him, D*ck Head…
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:09 pmPolitically Superior says:
If moore truly thought capitalism was wrong, he would’ve made the movie all on his own, then uploaded it to the internet so everyone could watch it for free. And any money he got from it would go to the poor.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:09 pm————————————————————–
And if he did that you would call him a socialist or smear him for trying to look good for helping the poor.
By the way your moniker ‘politically superior’ should be changed to ‘politically inferior’ but I know it’s just like a guy bragging about his large package when in fact it’s the size of a gnats.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:11 pmSTORM: He should show it for free or he’s a hypocrite!
Shayne: He did.
Politically Posterior: If he shows it for free, people will never work!
This little paraphrased portion of the above thread demonstrates exactly why it’s impossible to satisfy wingnuts of any state of affairs.
By the way PS, don’t tell me what effect the movie will have on people until after you’ve seen all of it yourself.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:12 pmYour right, it’s better for people to believe they are failures and the only reason they can’t make enough money to pay the mortgage or buy health insurance is because they are losers. That will cheer them up more than if they realize the deck is stacked against them.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:12 pmWe have a good system. Or did.
Under capitalism the government’s place is as watchdog, to prevent force or fraud from disrupting the free market. Regulations, which are necessary, have been reduced drasticly in the past years to favor the function and profits of large corporations.
In corporatism, like socialism, the government guarantees the delivery of goods. The negotiations in Washington now with healthcare executives seems like a definitive example of corporatist process.
Drastic campaign and lobby reform must also occur to preserve the ability of our government to fairly function. The political discourse we have observed this year alway seems to lead to a root of corruption.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:13 pmPolitically Superior says:
But no, he attacks capitalism all while gaining more “capital”
We lump in the predatory form of capitalism with the ethical kind, which Michael Moore is practicing, and hiding behind ‘Capitalism’ itself to cover up examination of the two distinctions. That’s what makes the GOP so special.
Let’s get back to accusing the left of ‘class warfare’, when what they really mean is regaining ground? (Good luck with that, libs!)
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:13 pmMoore is the salt,
Righties, sell-outs, and money-grubbers are the slugs.
Glad to see he getting under SO MANY skins…
I’d rather pay to see his film, than pay to get screwed by righty sellout money-grubbers.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:14 pmRalph, you are on a roll! Keep nailing these idiots with facts and reality as they seem to live in the alternative reality created by the Fox entertainment channel, truth and facts are like giant speed bumps to these morons.
Truth and facts to a right winger are the equivalent of sunlight to a vampire. Must avoid at all costs!
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:15 pmIt is a firm law of history,
that when the haves have too much, and the have-nots too little, revolution occurs.
not saying it’s happening here now,
but only a fool would say it can’t or won’t.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:15 pmWhat the GOP REALLY means … says:
But get this, not one of my floor trolls has challenged my assertion of “What the GOP REALLY means …” Not one.
_____________
That’s because they still can’t figure out if yer for ‘em or a’gin ‘em…
Lookee at poor STORMY over there scratchin’ his head… you just know that pointy li’l head is jes achin’ from it all…
Oh… look! Something SHINY!!!
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:17 pmAt 12:03, Political Posterior says:
Then Shayne replied:
But apparently, that wasn’t nearly good enough for Political posterior:
Y’know… it’s almost like nothing would satisfy Political Posterior, short of Michael Moore going bankrupt.
Of course, two things should be pointed out about this exchange: one, like most regressive, Political Posterior has no trouble divining the tone and content of a movie even without seeing it, and thus justifying his intense criticism based on those assumptions.
And two, given that Political Posterior’s suggested course of action for Michael Moore is to expend his energies and resources for nothing in return, in a society and economic system that would never sustain such an approach, we can see clearly why right-wing thinking fails to solve problems.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:18 pmDammit, ElBruce! Your brief paraphrase of the Posterior-Shayne exchange accomplished the same thing mine did, only quicker, with more punch and far fewer words.
I gotta work on “that whole brevity thing”.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:20 pmLookee at poor STORMY over there scratchin’ his head… you just know that pointy li’l head is jes achin’ from it all…
Always walks into my office with that look on his face as if he’s about to scream “bloody communist!”, but then freezes and asks me how to insert a floppy disk or use running water.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:20 pmTRoS, I love how the trolls not only ignore Michael Moore’s triumph in the competitive marketplace, they also act as if making documentaries is some sort of gravy train.
Like Al Gore got involved with An Inconvenient Truth because he wanted to make lots of money on a documentary.
idiots.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:22 pmWhat else would anyone expect from the entrenched elite than to protect their own interests? Of course they are going to slam the film, it’s about THEM!. Our country was lost 29 years ago when Ronnie uttered the words…Government isn’t the solution to the problem, government is the problem. What a deluded, stupid man. It was all the prompting “capitalists” would need to eventually sink our country into the morass we are witnessing today. If businesses had actually practiced real capitalism as it was intended by John Adams, none of this would have happened. But what they practiced instead was socialized corporatism and CALLED it capitalism. So when the tax dollars were flowing to them everything was good. When there was talk of tax dollars flowing back to the people who earned them, that was SOCIALISM! This game has been played over and over since 1980 and it’s finally destroyed the country. Still there are people who can’t see it, mainly right-wing nutjobs, but in a sense it doesn’t matter. They’ll be made to suffer with the rest of us while Ken Lewis goes laughing to the bank with his $50,000,000 “retirement package”, due largely in part because of idiots like them.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:24 pmMy O/C sincere thanks to the President for making his appeal. As usual, my party (ok – back on character) goes anti-America when a deblib president goes pro-America but is pro-America in a head-scratching way when DoD contractor spending comes up or there are a few votes to be stricken from die-bold machines.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:25 pmIt won’t matter what the MSM say.
People in droves are going to see this film. Those who want fairness and justice will see in graphic detail how awful are corporatocracy is.
Anyone who believes in freedom of choice and fair competition can take action to take back America from the greedy corporate rich.
This isn’t about hating government. It is about getting government to work for us and not corporate special interests.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:28 pmtombaker says:
It is a firm law of history,
that when the haves have too much, and the have-nots too little, revolution occurs.
not saying it’s happening here now,
but only a fool would say it can’t or won’t.
You’d think the right wing would thank Moore for trying to reverse the trend before it comes to that.
.
ralph the wonder llama says:
TRoS, I love how the trolls not only ignore Michael Moore’s triumph in the competitive marketplace, they also act as if making documentaries is some sort of gravy train.
They view all successful as class traitors. Which only proves that they were already waging class war.
And yeah, before Moore (and arguably Ken Burns) nobody would ever think of documentaries as a way to make money or reach the masses. Documentaries were right up there with making art-house films in French that didn’t make sense, in terms of popularity. The difference is that if you’re good enough at something, you can make it successful no matter what it is.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 pmThough I wasn’t a fan of all of Moore’s films, I thought “Sicko” was a superbly effective polemic. I don’t expect “Capitalism” to be as strong, but I will still happily see it. Moore’s value is in his ability to make complex issues understandable to ordinary folks.
October 2nd, 2009 at 1:05 pmStopped watching the Corporate Propaganda stations a long time ago. They are not news channels. They push the Corporate agenda.
Americans are not too bright.
Investigative Journalism is Dead.
Joeseph Gloebbels would be proud of America.
October 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pmHow many times does Moore have to answer the question about ‘hypocracy’ before the BOTTOMFEEDERS listen to the man??
He said, “right, PUT ME OUTTA BUSINESS, that’s what I want you to do.”
Jeez . .
October 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 pmWhy wouldn’t they smear Michael Moore?
The media in this nation are all corporate flunkies, blindly following the orders of their corporate masters.
They are useless.
They have driven so many intelligent, thinking people away from their organizations for good.
Let the right wingers keep paying for cable news and the local rag.
I’m over it.
October 2nd, 2009 at 1:23 pm.
Of course…
… Why worry about substance? You don’t need facts when you argue baselessly. Attack the messenger, avoid attacking their message. If you can discredit their good name, then whatever message they say gets dirt associated with, too.
In English it’s called an ad homonym attack.
In G(no)Penglish, it’s called a position.
.
October 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 pmMax Anax junius -1 says:
In English it’s called an ad homonym attack.
In G(no)Penglish, it’s called a position.
October 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 pm
__________
Actually, it’s called an ad hominem attack, not ad homonym. And it’s Latin, not English.
I’m not sure what an ad homonym attack would be. I guess an argument that is spelled and pronounced as a different attack, but has a completely different meaning.
Just sayin :)
October 2nd, 2009 at 1:39 pmMoore is a statist.
A major government or state role in the direction of the economy, both directly through state-owned enterprises and indirectly through the state-directed economic planning of the overall economy.
Statism is sometimes used to refer to state capitalism or highly regulated market economies with large amounts of government intervention, and also to refer to state socialism or co-operative economic systems that use the state, through nationalization, as a means of running industry in the interest of the majority.
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:03 pmjoedee1969 says:
Yeah sometimes people get sick of all the lies then they turn off Limbaugh and Fox. You and your rightwing idiot site can bite me.
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:07 pmSTORM says:
Your post is a great example of how utterly stupid you are. You shouldnt use words that you dont know the meaning of. That would limit you to see spot run. You play the game by the rules that exist not the rules you would have. I hate the designated hitter rule. If I managed in the American league that doesnt mean I wouldnt use it. That wouldnt make me a hypocrite. Those of us with normal IQs understand this. Morons like you are left out in the cold as usual
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:10 pmWill the media ask serious questions about the failure of free market capitalism
Failure? Really? 300 years of capitalism built the USA from nothing to the greatest economic powerhouse in history. Boom and bust is part of the road map to long term growth and continuing improving standard of living. The economy doesn’t grow in a straight line up and never have bumps in the road. This too will pass. It is a matter of when, not if.
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:13 pmMoore really makes you mad, doesn’t he, kws?
October 2nd, 2009 at 2:27 pmkwsventures: “Moore is a statist.”
Good one. Yes, Randian objectivists who have a particularly bent view of society and humanity have labeled Moore and almost anyone who believes in civil government by this name. Most people who have risen beyond adolescent thinking realize that although Ayn Rand may have been a talented writer, she was profoundly misanthropic and had fundamental misunderstandings of the meaning of certain English words such as compassion and empathy. But, adolescent men seem to love her stuff.
Your point?
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 pmKWS: “Failure? Really? 300 years of capitalism built the USA from nothing to the greatest economic powerhouse in history.”
Currently, we are the world’s largest debtor nation and our manufacturing capability has been heavily stunted, but I wouldn’t want to let any facts get in the way of your very old and robust argument.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:02 pmkwsventures says:
Moore is a statist.
OK.
I would call “indirectly through the state-directed economic planning of the overall economy” something that’s an intrinsic component of every single developed nation everywhere, at any time throughout history. I mean, it’s just inarguable. It’s like complaining that he believes that sovereign nations should have borders.
.
kwsventures says:
Failure? Really? 300 years of capitalism built the USA from nothing to the greatest economic powerhouse in history.
First of all, any time prior to the industrial revolution is completely irrelevant, as that changed everything. Then everything reset from scratch after the Great Depression. You hardly get to brag about “finishing strong” when you fell flat on your face halfway through the race.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:29 pmNinerFan says:
KWS: “Failure? Really? 300 years of capitalism built the USA from nothing to the greatest economic powerhouse in history.”
Currently, we are the world’s largest debtor nation and our manufacturing capability has been heavily stunted, but I wouldn’t want to let any facts get in the way of your very old and robust argument.
The USA is the largest manufacturing country in the world. The value of all products produced in the USA is far more than any other country. Not even close. The latest United Nations statistical information proves it. The flat lie that we don’t make anything in the USA is B.S. When I hear some talking head on TV or radio say this bald faced lie I know that they are clueless. Do some research once.
http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2008/09/23/top-manufacturing-countries-in-2007/
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:43 pmAs Moore has toured the media circuit promoting his film, hosts and pundits have worked quickly to try to marginalize his message. Rather than attack the substance of his film or debate the issues he raises, media figures are attempting to destroy Moore’s credibility. The most common trope has been to cast Moore as a “hypocrite” for being successful while at the same time criticizing capitalism.
*****************************************************
Granted, I haven’t yet seen the movie…but personally, I’m not inclined to perceive this as being a legitimate reason for criticism. I very much doubt Moore is necessarily trying to claim that there’s something inherently unethical about capitalism or being successful per se — it would be neither logical nor in his best interests to condemn a system by which he himself profits. If indeed this were his intent, then these criticisms would probably be justified to at least some extent. However, my belief is that what he’s trying to criticize is the practice of unrestricted capitalism — the pursuit of profit at the expense of both people and principles, the exploitation (whether deliberate or merely thoughtless) of consumers by the corporations. That seems to have been happening more and more often over the last few decades, and I think it’s one of the reasons why we’re in the mess (both social and financial) that we are right now.
I see nothing wrong with ethical capitalism and responsible success, and I’m very much inclined to doubt that Moore does either. One of the reasons why I say this is because Moore’s success ever since “Roger And Me” has been the direct result of his efforts to call attention to the issues which affect the lives of ordinary, everyday people in this country. Nobody’s forcing him to do this — as a filmmaker, he could very easily have chosen to spend his life choking out the usual mindless Hollywood fare instead of making an effort to improve the lives of other people as well as his own. This, in my honest opinion, is at least in some ways an example of what ethical capitalism should be — a means of making money for oneself, possibly even a lot of money, while at the same time attempt to benefit the lives of other people instead of simply taking advantage of them. Unfortunately, as any student of human nature will tell you, this is not something which comes naturally to most of us — many if not most people, even the ones who claim to have certain religious and/or ethical principles, are amoral in their deeds and are inclined to do anything they have reason to believe they can get away with. Unrestricted capitalism encourages this amorality rather than encouraging morality — unfortunately, however, the majority of consumers are also (ironically) often far too trusting and lack sufficient reasoning skills to do their own research and ask the right questions.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:48 pmkwsventures says:
The USA is the largest manufacturing country in the world.
That has not been true for 300 years. If you’d originally referred only to the latter half of the 20th Century, you would have had a good point.
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:48 pmkwsventures says:
“The USA is the largest manufacturing country in the world.”
Look at your data for the top two, U.S. and China. Now imagine the data as two curves and consider that the last data point was 2007, before the collapse of our auto manufacturing industry. Are you sure we’re still number one?
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:00 pmIt’s about time someone did something like this, so many people just don’t realize what capitalism has twisted itself into..
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:39 pmkwsventures says:
“The USA is the largest manufacturing country in the world.”
You confuse output with revenues. Much of US manufacturing is purchased in the US at high dollar rates. If China makes something for 1/10th the cost, but makes 8 times as much at that cost it doesn’t mean we are a larger manufacturer just because our industry generates more revenue. This is a common fallacy among you wingnuts.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:27 pm“Media Disregard Substance Of Michael Moore’s Film — Instead Engage In Character Assassination”
They are people out there that are suprised by this?
Did they not hear the conclution Moore came to at the end of the film?
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:39 pmcd says:
Did they not hear the conclution Moore came to at the end of the film?
They can only believe the things they believe by intentionally ignoring what their character-assassin victims actually say.
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:17 pmThank you for your sharing.!
October 7th, 2009 at 5:03 pmWhat could have been an amusing riff looks more like a propaganda film out to destroy Moore rather than spoof him. gögüs büyütme
October 9th, 2009 at 9:06 am