State Rep: In Oklahoma, There’s A ‘Feeling That Women Aren’t Capable Of Making Reproductive Decisions’
State Rep: In Oklahoma, There’s A ‘Feeling That Women Aren’t Capable Of Making Reproductive Decisions’
Oklahoma recently passed a law that will collect personal details about every single abortion performed in the state and post them on a public website. Women will have to answer questions about their age, income, race, number of previous pregnancies, type of health insurance, whether they’re a state employee, date of abortion, and location where the procedure is performed. Although the questionnaire does not ask for name, address, or “any information specifically identifying the patient,” as Feminists for Choice points out, many of these questions could be used to identify a woman in a small community.
In recent weeks, the law has been generating attention nationwide. On Monday, ThinkProgress spoke to Oklahoma state Rep. Jeannie McDaniel (D), an outspoken opponent of HR 1595, which was sponsored by two male lawmakers — Sen. Todd Lamb (R) and Rep. Dan Sullivan (R). McDaniel stressed that this bill is part of a pattern by the Oklahoma legislature to take away power from women:
McDANIEL: I’ve served five sessions, and I have one more term to go before I’m up for reelection. Each of the successive five years, there has been a bill introduced in the Oklahoma legislature regarding women’s reproductive rights. … Each year, it creeps a little more toward taking away women’s freedoms, more restrictions between the doctors. [...]
TP: So how did this get passed?
McDANIEL: Well, in our state, we have a very strong feeling that women aren’t capable of making reproductive decisions when it comes to terminating a pregnancy. It’s a very strong effort pro-life. And while I don’t advocate abortion, certainly, I understand the Supreme Court gives us the right to have availability to that service, and I do believe that women have the right to make the choice and to make healthy choices.
In the interview, McDaniel stressed that not only is the bill trying to intimidate women from receiving reproductive care, but it’s intended to discourage doctors from providing the services in the first place. Physicians are required to fill out the survey — even if they work at a private institution — and if they don’t, they will face sanctions. “I think what we’re doing is we’re driving them out of the services completely to providing women’s health care,” said McDaniel. Listen to excerpts of the interview here:
One of the recent bills McDaniel mentioned that takes away women’s reproductive choices was legislation that would have required a woman to submit to an ultrasound and hear descriptions of the fetus’s heart, limbs, and internal organs before receiving an abortion. The law said that the woman would be allowed to “avert her eyes.” However, a judge struck down the law, saying it “violated a clause in the State Constitution requiring that bills deal with only one subject.” The Center for Reproductive Rights is now challenging the new abortion law on the same grounds. On Monday, the court postponed activation of the law until Dec. 4 as part of the legal challenge. The state attorney general had requested the delay in order to have “more time to respond.”
As Megan Carpentier notes, “Making abortion illegal or difficult to obtain doesn’t reduce its prevalence in a country. It simply increases the health risks to the women who seek them anyway. The only proven way to stop women from having abortions is to help them make their own choices about when to become pregnant.”
Unfortunately, if the court doesn’t overturn this law, there may not be a legislative fix coming anytime soon. McDaniel said that she’s sure there aren’t the votes right now to repeal the law right now. “I think it’s an education process, and I think the more educated a constituency is, or people in a state are, that they will realize that access to affordable reproductive health care is the key,” McDaniel replied.
Transcript:
McDANIEL: Well, to start out with, I’ve served five sessions, and I have one more term to go before I’m up for reelection. Each of the successive five years, there has been a bill introduced in the Oklahoma legislature regarding women’s reproductive rights. And it’s just sort of middle-of-the-way with parental permission, then it was — just one thing after another. Ultrasounds.
Each year, it creeps a little more toward taking away women’s freedoms, more restrictions between the doctors, and what we’ve seen is, more and more, the legislation has really been aimed at the physicians providing the reproductive services, i.e. this survey is really a requirement of the physicians to fill it out and send it in to the health department. So I view it as more encroachment on women’s privacy regarding their health care between them and their physicians.
TP: So how did this get passed?
McDANIEL: Well, in our state, we have a very strong feeling that women aren’t capable of making reproductive decisions when it comes to terminating a pregnancy. It’s a very strong effort pro-life. And while I don’t advocate abortion, certainly, I understand the Supreme Court gives us the right to have availability to that service, and I do believe that women have the right to make the choice and to make healthy choices. I’ve really tried to be a voice of reason to say, “Look, with the more restrictions you put on, you really limit women’s choices to make healthy decisions, whether it’s even to find adoption opportunities, prenatal care.”
I’m afraid with all of these hurdles they’re putting in women’s way, they’re actually moving women away from making smart, healthy choices, because women may turn to using the RU-486 drug and simply say, “I’m not going to these clinics, I’m not going in for reproductive services,” and take it into their own hands. And that’s what saddens me. [...]
TP: Do you have a legislative strategy at all going forward? Is there something that you think you can do?
McDANIEL: I think it’s an education process, and I think the more educated a constituency is, or people in a state are, that they will realize that access to affordable reproductive health care is the key. Ending unintended pregnancies would be my goal. My goal would be idealistic — never to have to have people face the consequence of an unintended pregnancy. Certainly we will probably continue to have pregnancies that may have that outcome, and that’s again, between a woman, her physician, her family, and her faith. But my goal would be to have everyone educated enough, and access to reproductive services, to where they can make a healthy decision about their pregnancies, and not have to make sad or bad choices.
TP: If the court, for example, rules that this law is constitutional, do you think there would be enough support to repeal it at all, or do you think for now it would be set?
McDANIEL: Absolutely not, Amanda, no, it would not. The further we go from Roe v. Wade — I think young women today have grown up in a very different environment than I did. I can barely remember, in the early 60s, that not all women even had access to the birth control pill or reproductive services because it was restricted to married women only.
I think women today don’t realize what it was like to not have a voice. I don’t think many today would think it was right if you wanted a tubal ligation to have to get your husband’s permission, but that’s still the case in many places and certainly many hospitals, especially faith-based hospitals.
So I don’t think — I think it’s different, and I don’t want to compare myself — because I’m 60 — to a young woman today who’s 21 or 25. But what I would ask them is, “Is it the state’s business what transpires between you and your physician?” And what troubles me about the survey is the fact that it asks very personal questions about your income, your education, your own lifestyle, your health, and I’m not sure that’s something I would want posted about myself on the Internet, with or without the name. I think these are very personal questions. I just don’t think it’s part of government responsibility to be in these.
And I might point out that these aren’t just people who are using state aid, to have these procedures done. These are people in hospitals, in private clinics — this is for anyone who undergoes these services. So if you would, let’s say, have a pregnancy that was terminated naturally — a miscarriage, what we use to call it today, they call them “spontaneous abortions” — you’re subject to these questions as well. It’s not just women having abortions; it’s any pregnancy that was terminated and someone goes in for a procedure.
And the physician, as I understand it, is required to fill out this survey. And what you might note, in it, there are sanctions for physicians, I believe, who fail to do this. So I think it’s same as the ultrasound bill last year. It’s putting more and more responsibility and sanctions on physicians, and I think what we’re doing is we’re driving them out of the services completely to providing women’s health care.
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She lives there so she knows and cannot say that it’s NOT an “education” problem. It’s an attrition problem. Ya gotta hope that enough of the cracker-right die-off or move because of their opposition to “gubmint” health-care, and that they are replaced by progressives displaced from more desireable locales who relocate for the low prices (cuz who’d actually want to live there?).
October 21st, 2009 at 2:21 pmFunny how Oklahoma won’t collect the same information about people who purchase weapons or alcohol. These two decisions are responsible for more deaths state-wide & nation-wide than abortion.
It seems that Oklahoma is a right-whiner state in word AND deed!
October 21st, 2009 at 2:21 pmThis is clearly a violation of women’s right to privacy. I hope that doctors refuse and take it to the Supreme Court. Institutionalized misogyny is alive and well in Oklahoma.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:23 pmMore proof that TaliBaptist = Taliban.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:26 pmLots of luck on educating the constituency. That’s a long term process while your legislature can produce retrograde crap all day long every day they’re in session.
And the problem in OK appears to affect more than just reproductive rights. There’s a strong theocratic component to all of the crazy coming out of the state, along with the righty political paranoia about social programs.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:26 pmMcDaniel’s says “It’s an education process”. We are talking about Oklahoma right?
October 21st, 2009 at 2:27 pm.
I bet Sen. Todd Lamb (R) and Rep. Dan Sullivan (R) long for the days when women were treated as property.
p.s.
WHY NO DATA ON THE FATHER/SPERM DONOR?
Women don’t get pregnant on their own.
.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:27 pmIn most of the United States, There’s A ‘Feeling That Oklahomans Aren’t Capable Of Making Responsible Decisions’
October 21st, 2009 at 2:27 pm.
R E M E M B E R:
THE ‘RIGHT TO LIFE’ ENDS ONCE YOU ARE BORN!
.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:28 pmThe federal courts have repeatedly struck down similar provisions in state laws. This law will never be enforced because it infringes on so many constitutional rights. A lawsuit will be filed to stop enforcement and a court will probably issue an injunction to stop the law. It seems Oklahoma has nothing better to do with taxpayers money because it is very costly for the state to defend these laws when they know there is a high probability the law will be struck down. They keep passing the laws with the idea that if enough of them go up to the Supreme Court, some of them will be held constitutional. That is why any future Supreme Court vacancies are going to be a major battle. Republicans are trying to stop all judges who will uphold Roe v. Wade.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:30 pmWould Oklahoma allow anonymous but detailed information on all the state’s gun owners online?
October 21st, 2009 at 2:32 pmHow about they required that all “Erectile Deficiency” pill users in OK be listed on a website?
October 21st, 2009 at 2:34 pmI wonder how many times Lamb and Sullivan have fear mongered their constituents about the evil liberals wanting to put the government between them and their doctors (while they’re doing exactly that)?
October 21st, 2009 at 2:36 pm@ 7. Max Anax junius -1 says: . I bet Sen. Todd Lamb (R) and Rep. Dan Sullivan (R) long for the days when women were treated as property. p.s. WHY NO DATA ON THE FATHER/SPERM DONOR? Women don’t get pregnant on their own. . October 21st, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Funny you should ask that. Well, funny to Sullivan and Lamb, I’m sure. They’re out of that crowd in OK that think that women come in two flavors; brood mare and trophy. I suppose there’s housekeeper and scullery maid too, but that’s hired help, not personal property.
They don’t long for the days when women were treated as property; that’s how they treat their wives and mistresses. These are the Talibabtist types who brought us the news a few years ago from the South Ron Talibabtist Convention meeting that “wives shall submit to their husbands”. They’re serious about it; they live that way. It ain’t some hokey cornpone TV; it’s reality in that group.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:37 pmI believe that questions about the health of a pregnant woman should be made by the woman in consult with her doctor, ideally the father, their families, and religious counsel. I don’t think decisions should be made by a bureaucrat in Washington or in Oklahoma City.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:38 pmHow many of the dads are dead beat dad’s? Wouldn’t it be nice if the mothers could put the dead beat dad’s info on line for all to see?
October 21st, 2009 at 2:39 pmGo for it Oklahoma and you know what women will do, hmmmmmm . . .
L I E like rugs [I would, no problem]
*
October 21st, 2009 at 2:42 pmWell, if personal, medical information is going to be posted on line, how about if Lamb and Sullivan contact their doctors and have all their medical data posted. Along with every member of the Legislature. The public deserves to know if their reps are healthy too.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:47 pmthe morality police.
in oklahoma.
tragic comedy.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:48 pmFred: “How many of the dads are dead beat dad’s?”
I don’t even think there is a question about the father on the form. That’s just one of the things I find outrageous about it.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:49 pmIt’s good to know that small, less intrusive government is alive and well in Oklahoma.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:50 pmMCDANIEL: And while I don’t advocate abortion, certainly, I understand the Supreme Court gives us the right to have availability to that service, and I do believe that women have the right to make the choice and to make healthy choices.
_____________________________________________________________
This is worth noting. There are many people who aren’t fans of abortion personally, but are far more offended by the movement against it than they are by the procedure itself.
In the first place, it’s a legal procedure (legal nationally if in the first trimester — after that, it varies from state to state). Second, the idea of the government involved in a woman’s uterus is a gross invasion of privacy. They also recognize that back-alley butchers are more dangerous to women than safe clinics are. Furthermore, the idea of women treated like property or chattel, who must be punished for having sex, is repugnant.
It’s also worth noting that a number of the boogeymen of the far right — like Planned Parenthood — are responsible for far more PREGNANCY PREVENTION than abortions, and should be encouraged in their efforts.
This is a valid viewpoint, and shared by many more people than just Rep. McDaniel. It IS possible to support a woman’s right to choose even if one isn’t all gung-ho about abortion.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:51 pmThis will simply drive desperate women to seek illegal abortions or self-abort just like in the 1940’s when both the mother and child could die.
Roe v. Wade allows for the mother to survive an unwanted pregnancy in a safe environment.
This new law is stupid because it’s about religion and the hatred these zealots find in their love of Jebus.
The Christianistas need to be stopped.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:52 pmThese men are barbarians.
CIVIL RIGHTS FOR WOMEN!!!!!
Heh. They may let us vote, but in a lot of ways, we’re *still* 2nd-class citizens…
October 21st, 2009 at 2:57 pmHere’s a personal anecdote regarding rural Oklahoma…
While eating dinner at a neo-Ponderosa steakhouse one evening, the cook came out to see how we liked our steaks, and out of curiosity I suppose, as we were the only people in the establishment.
After some banal chit-chat, including wanting to know where we were from, he stated:
“You know why I love living here? “Cause I can go up on the roof here and see EVERYTHING!”
October 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pmHe then offered that if we were looking for some excitement, we could go down to the stockyard and watch the hog judging contest.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Lissen, asshat – when YOU can get pregnant – YOU can make that decision. Until then, STFU.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:04 pmThis is nothing more than the pro-lifers trying to shame the women of Oklahoma to keep them from exercising their supreme court defended right to choose. This is criminal. There is no other way to look at it.
Why is it the people that scream the loudest about keeping government out of their lives are the first to tell someone else how to live?
October 21st, 2009 at 3:05 pmI smell something burning, aroonnnk, better head back to the kitchen now.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:07 pmJust another little sample of why sane people, not to mention women in particular, are abandoning our nation’s mad plunge to the “right” and have, hopefully, reversed the momentum. Alas, taken as a group, the anti-abortion crowd might be the most dangerous remaining branch of the radical-right tree.
On the other hand. I can sometimes manage a chuckle about the irony when I consider that the same people who would force the ultimate intrusion into a woman’s private life are marching the streets chanting about “freedom” and “taking back our country”.
The poor things can’t even recognize freedom, have never allowed themselves to experience it, and would waste it if they actually realized they had it.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:07 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
26. Aaronk
Typical. No one, anywhere, is actually pro-abortion. Accusing people of being pro-abortion is akin to accusing the Rugby team that crashed in the Chilean Andes in 1972 of being pro-cannibalism.
But, that misses the point entirely. There is no consensus that life begins in vitro and, as such, a person is not a person until it is born. The creeps out in OK are the kinds who back 14th amendment rights for fetuses, but refuse to believe in equal protection under the law for any who leave the womb.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:08 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I’m flagging and reporting as abuse your hate-baiting, aronnnk.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:11 pm#26 – aaronk says:
———————————————————–
“Each year, it creeps a little more toward taking away women’s freedom to kill unborn children”
October 21st, 2009 at 3:03 pm
So, name the organizations that provide services for children to whom you have you provided your support.
If you do not support children AFTER they are born, what gives your the foundation to “claim” support children who haven’t been born yet?
The vast majority of supposed “pro-lifers” are in fact nothing but pro-birthers. They only care about the child as long as the chind resides in a womb. the very second that chind leaves the womb, their support completely dissappears.
So, Aaronk, tell us what support you provide AFTER the child is born?
October 21st, 2009 at 3:12 pmIf the stupid troll wishes to play the lick-spittle of a ghost and a slave to a superstition? I would be the last to dissuade him. However, I must insist on one bit of consistency.
Please repeat, chapter and verse, the part of the Bible that declares a fetus is a “person”. As you can imagine, any argument from Biblical authority would need that bit of information and, while I admit it’s been some time, I can’t recall that part at all. Thanks.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:14 pm#31 – aaronk says:
———————————————————
“god must rule this country and anyone who goes against god’s will is a communist/nazi.”
October 21st, 2009 at 3:07 pm
So, when Jesus said to give away all your posessions and care for the poor, and you refused to do so, that makes YOU a communist/nazi.
It’s good to know that you admit that you are a communist/nazi.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:14 pmEnnuiDivine: “There is no consensus that life begins in vitro and, as such, a person is not a person until it is born.”
The Christians pick and choose and, in this case, they’re going with a cranky, woman-hating busybody named Leviticus rather than back to Genesis, which is supposed to be the Word of God. In Genesis, Adam doesn’t live until God “breaths life into him.” In other words, God’s story is that life begins at first breath.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:15 pmSo if you want a legal abortion and you live in OK, go out of state and take your privacy with you. Problem solved.
:/
It seems like you lose your right to privacy if you get pregnant. That’d be a great site to hack and replace the names with promonent OK women.
This state uses lethal injection and has a ten commandments momument going in the capital. It’s a backward, self-righteous state.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:15 pmNothing like taking the worst day of someone’s life and making it a public spectacle.
Why not? The insurance companies already have this right; they just wait until said babies are here. And the Army seems pretty good at killing innocents over in Iraq/Afghanistan. Why aren’t you crying about that?
October 21st, 2009 at 3:15 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
At least you’ve finally taken ownership of your deceitful ways.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:20 pmaaronk,
You claim this country was spawned from God? I think you need to go back and re-read history. This country was stolen by people who wanted religious freedom from overbearing governments in bed with the corrupt churches of Europe. Because of this people have the right to practice their own religion of choice, or not follow a religion at all if they so choose.
Your rhetoric is the same garbage spewed by president Cheney and puppet boy Bush over the last 8 years, and I seem to remember that until recently most of the world hated us as religious war loving zealots.
Way to make America as a better place.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:21 pmSo, when are they going to get all of the men who masturbate to list all of their personal information on the web?
October 21st, 2009 at 3:22 pmWhere does it say that in either? In fact, the Bible clearly states that Christians should obey the law of the land (i.e., man’s law).
Oops.
You = pwned
October 21st, 2009 at 3:22 pmThis test subject is faulty. I suspect that all the huffing and meth may have caused irreparable damage. Alas, random results don’t validate a study so we’ll have to await a viable example.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:22 pmmissmolly says:
This is worth noting. There are many people who aren’t fans of abortion personally, but are far more offended by the movement against it than they are by the procedure itself……..
This is a valid viewpoint, and shared by many more people than just Rep. McDaniel. It IS possible to support a woman’s right to choose even if one isn’t all gung-ho about abortion.
Public officials are sworn to uphold the law even if they disagree with it. Many Dems have stated their personal opposition to abortion, but acknowledge that Roe v. Wade is the law of the land. The anti-abortion people do not acknowledge abortion is legal and insist on undermining the right every which way they can. They are conflating their personal beliefs with what the law is.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:23 pmThe “theighs of God”??!! Assuming for a moment that this is not a joke, let’s go to the Founders:
“I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.”
– Thomas Jefferson
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.”
– James Madison
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
– John Adams
“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
October 21st, 2009 at 3:27 pm– George Washington
Fundie Xians hard at work, making life miserable for everybody else.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:28 pmPrayzzze Geezuts!
aaronk says:
hahaha….being pro-lie,/strong> is hate-baiting?
How effing Freudian is THAT
October 21st, 2009 at 3:29 pmFolks, either aaronk (as irritating as he is) has been jacked or he has totally lost it.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:29 pmdamn / thingys anyhoo…
October 21st, 2009 at 3:29 pmI see that “aaronk” and am reminded of an old comic from my childhood called “Turok” about a caveman in prehistoric times.
I didn’t know comic book cavemen could post, though. Anyways..
Please post your name and address and I will be pleased to drop it off at all Planned Parenthood clinics in the Chicagoland area, so that any woman facing the most private of decisions regarding pregnancy will know they can drop off the baby for you to raise.
Because unless you’re willing to do that, your words – besides dripping with such hatred for your fellow human beings – are meaningless.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:30 pmHoodathunk, my vote is on the latter.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:30 pmAbortion: Legal, Safe, On Demand, No Questions Asked.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:31 pmRUC, being treated like a Green Stamp can have that effect.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:32 pmaaronk says
October 21st, 2009 at 3:07 pm
anyone who goes against god’s will is a communist/nazi.
_____________________________________________________________
Does this fool have any idea how absurd he sounds? Does he know that the Nazis and the Communists fought against each other in WWII? Does he know they weren’t the same thing? Does he know that while Communists were admitted atheists, the Nazis constantly invoked God as justification for their evil deeds?
I didn’t think so. Another pathetic troll who doesn’t have any kind of intelligent argument and is reduced to flinging random pejoratives, displaying his ignorance proudly.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:33 pmaawonk says:
Only republicans can decide who should live and who should die. We are the only ones who has god’s ear.
Well, dearie, Gawd texted me and said he wants his damned ear back. You’ve done squat with it but screw shit up.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:33 pmAnd he’s having trouble hearing people who actually need him…
aaronk says:
Or perhaps:
Each year, it creeps a little more toward granting freedom from murder to unborn children
So if a “fetus” is a child, you believe in “rapists and incest rights” to impregnate girls and force them to carry your children? LOL! Yep. Those ‘freedoms’ you want are great for everyone except the actual ‘people’ victimized by them!
So if a husband yells at his wife and she miscarries, is that “murder”? LOL!
October 21st, 2009 at 3:33 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
missmolly says:
I think aaronk was either hijacked or ran out of his medication! ;)
October 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pmHoodathunk, at least Green Stamps have some redeeming value…heh…
October 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pmI knew it. Our little aaronk = daryll! LOL!
October 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pmaaronk says:
Luke 1: 41-44: 41When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Oh daryll, that baby was the “reincarnation” of Methuselah according to your “big book of fairie tales” and not a “regular” fetus! LOL!
October 21st, 2009 at 3:35 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Hoodathunk says
October 21st, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Folks, either aaronk (as irritating as he is) has been jacked or he has totally lost it.
____________________________________________________________
Could be either one. Normally aaronk is somewhat rational (even though his ideas aren’t), and his spelling is a lot better than what we’ve seen here.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:36 pmThe reason is they don’t see why believers should be the only miserable, guilt-ridden, psychotic hypocrites, and want to spread the misery. What was it, Mencken mebbe, said about being obsessed by the suspicion that somebody somewhere was having a good time?
October 21st, 2009 at 3:36 pmIt appears our little buddy has seen the light. And forgot his sunglasses.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:37 pmTell us aaronk, is that the same bible that says the Sun rotates around the 8000 year old earth – which is flat? LOL!
October 21st, 2009 at 3:37 pmThe land of the free????? Yea right!!!!
Repugs….”we want government out of your lives”
THEN ….WHY ARE REPUGS TRYING TO GET INTO MY WIFES PUSSY
Stay out of our lives….idiots!!!
October 21st, 2009 at 3:38 pmaaronk says:
Instances of rape & incest are horrific, but also rare in terms of pregnancies, so it’s really hard for you to build a case off of exceptions instead of the rule. Anyway, yes I believe the unborn child still has rights and to kill him/her is still wrong.
So you’re saying those people are just “unlucky” and have no rights because there aren’t “enough” of them? How “humane” and “christian” of you to don’t give a crap about rape victims. How many women have you raped?
October 21st, 2009 at 3:38 pmAnyone who “believes in God” is a delusional fool, a moronic retard who shouldn’t be permitted out without a helmet and kneepads.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:39 pmaaronk says:
Anyway, yes I believe the unborn child still has rights and to kill him/her is still wrong.
Well while that’s your opinion, it’s not biblical or rational. It’s insane like all of your opinions!
“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. “But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, (NAS, Exodus 21:22-24)
A fetus is treated as “property” and not “a person” in the bible.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:40 pmaronnnnk says:
“I didn’t bring the Bible up.”
Oh.
aronnk says:
“When the bible replaces the constitution, etc….”
Ooopsie…
October 21st, 2009 at 3:40 pmaaronk says:
Instances of rape & incest are horrific, but also rare in terms of pregnancies
Laws by nature must cope with the exceptions, or people are victimized. That’s why “conservative” societies with sharia law and extremism like you propose are such hell holes to live in.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:41 pmnoseeum says:
aronnnnk says:
“I didn’t bring the Bible up.”
Oh.
aronnk says:
“When the bible replaces the constitution, etc….”
Ooopsie…
The truth has a liberal bias, that’s why aaronk lies! ;)
October 21st, 2009 at 3:42 pmA fetus is not a child, and the use of that term is consistent with wingnut extremists that hate and fear the rights of women.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:44 pmUm….those verses don’t prove anything other than that a fetus moves in the womb before birth. Apparently, this has not changed since Biblical days….and?
And you did bring the Bible up.
Thank you, come again.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:45 pmunless it is in contradiction to God’s Law….but I didn’t bring religion into this discussion…u guys did.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:48 pmlooks like we have to live with Aaronk the Delusional who has a memory of about two posts.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:51 pminsurance companies have never directly sucked the life out of a human that I know of. I am against the Iraq/Afghanistan war.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:52 pmAccording to the holy joes it seems that except is the second most used word in the bible.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:52 pmI never said this country was spawned from God. I have no reason to believe that to be true.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:53 pmI support all of my children after they are born.
Let me ask you a question, and try to just answer the question honestly. Do you support shooting & killing toddlers?
October 21st, 2009 at 3:56 pmaaronk says:
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
until the bible replaces the constitution we god fearing republicans will never stop, never.
This nation is spawned from the theighs of god and will be a beakon of rightiousness across the globe when we are through.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:10 pm Vote Up | Vote Down | (-11) | Report Abuse
Either you were jacked or you are an idiot. Personally, while I can sympathize with a name jack, you are still an idiot.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:57 pmWell, in our state, we have a very strong feeling that women aren’t capable of making reproductive decisions.
I guess so. Your Mom certainly made the wrong decision, or we wouldn’t have to listen to your stupid BS.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:59 pmAll you need is love (di di didi dee)
October 21st, 2009 at 4:00 pmAll you need is love (di di didi dee)
All you need is love, love,
Love is all you need…
This nation is spawned from the theighs of god
Now I’m real curious. Does he mean the eyes of god. Or possibly the thighs of god.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:01 pmThis is very confusing.
Aaronk, you can keep your false equivalences, your sophistries and especially any religious clap trap to yourself. Your toddler question is incredibly off topic and meaningless.
Sort of like you.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:03 pmaaronk, you’ve cited Genesis. I have a serious question for you. Why do Christians opposed to abortion rights ignore the very first lesson from God in Genesis on when life begins? Adam’s life begins when god breathes life into him. That would seem to pretty conclusively argue that God believes our lives begin when we take our first breath. As someone raised in a strict go-to-church every Sunday family, I’ve always wondered about this.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:05 pmI never said that. I was apparently jacked, which isn’t that hard to do on this site. I don’t think this nation is spawned from God….FOR THE RECORD!
October 21st, 2009 at 4:06 pmthere seems to be plenty of additional biblical statements which show God feels life begins in the womb. Once again though….I didn’t bring religion into this discussion.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:08 pmI would make the following observations about abortion and religion. Prior to the 1960’s abortion was a separate crime from murder. The common law distinction between the crimes was the viability of the fetus. If the fetus could not live outside the womb it was charged as abortion. If the fetus could live outside the womb then it was charged as murder. This common law distinction existed for centuries in English law and American law. The religious community never maintained that life began at conception nor did they ever register objections to this common law doctrine.
In the 1960’s contraception came to the forefront as a means for family planning in the US and Europe. Before the Supreme Court decision in Griswold v. Connecticut, the states regulated contraceptives and how they were sold. Griswold changed that by extending a right of privacy to sexual reproduction. This did not sit well with the Vatican which issued its “moral objections” to contraception and asserted for the first time, that life begins even before conception.
Catholics in many countries rejected the Vatican’s prohibition on contraception. This papal bull is the foundation for its subsequent pronouncements about abortion being murder regardless of what stage of gestation. This has become the basis for right wing Christians opposition to Roe v. Wade in 1976. In other words, these are new religious ideas that have not been universally accepted by all Christians.
Finally, I would note that it took the Vatican 500 years to admit Galileo was right and unexcommunicate him. If they didn’t get that right and it took that long, then why should we accept these new doctrines?
October 21st, 2009 at 4:09 pmI figured you wouldn’t answer it, for fear of contradicting yourself. In any case, I’ll assume that you aren’t in favor of killing toddlers. If that is the case, please tell me what you are doing to support toddlers of the world?
October 21st, 2009 at 4:10 pmaaronk says:
unless it is in contradiction to God’s Law….but I didn’t bring religion into this discussion…u guys did.
Then don’t get an abortion, no one is “forcing” you to. Stop legislating “your” bigotry and ignorance on others – loser!
Actually “you” brought up religion.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:11 pmaaronk says:
insurance companies have never directly sucked the life out of a human that I know of. I am against the Iraq/Afghanistan war.
Except when they’ve refused to provide care and “sucked the life” out of people that died from their policies… ZZzz..
October 21st, 2009 at 4:12 pmaaronk says:
I never said this country was spawned from God. I have no reason to believe that to be true.
LOL! Yet you claim it should be under “sharia” law! LOL!
October 21st, 2009 at 4:13 pmaaronk says:
I support all of my children after they are born.
And you want rape victims to support theirs? LOL!
aaronk says:
Let me ask you a question, and try to just answer the question honestly. Do you support shooting & killing toddlers?
Why, are “toddlers” the same as a “fetus” in your eyes? If they are, then why aren’t you protecting ’sperm’ that can grow up to be toddlers too? LOL! You religious fanatics are all the same! Just go join the Taliban already – nutjob!
October 21st, 2009 at 4:14 pmaaronk says:
I never said that. I was apparently jacked, which isn’t that hard to do on this site. I don’t think this nation is spawned from God….FOR THE RECORD!
You may not have said it – but you “believe” it!
October 21st, 2009 at 4:15 pmaaronk: “there seems to be plenty of additional biblical statements which show God feels life begins in the womb.”
Yes, but you see you’re exhibiting the same behavior – trying to pretend that the very first Word of God in Genesis, the act of breathing life into the first human, isn’t much more meaningful than a variety of other citations regarding life developing in the womb. This is Genesis, the beginning, where the entire premise is laid out. Shouldn’t that have at least as much weight as Numbers or Romans or Luke? And notice that nowhere in the citation you did give on Genesis is it implicit that God thinks these fetuses are alive. Just that they are there. As far as you know, God thinks this is potential life and has given the freedom of choice and therefore the power of life, to the woman.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:17 pmaaronk says:
there seems to be plenty of additional biblical statements which show God feels life begins in the womb.
First the bible is a book written by and for “men”. To say that it represents “what God feels” is both insane and arrogant!
Second, if that were true, why was causing an abortion out of violence regarded as an act of “vandalism” and not an attack on a “person”?
Third, is this the same book that says life begins as a sperm/egg and that it masturbation was murdering potential life? LOL! you lunatics are funny.
aaronk says:
Once again though….I didn’t bring religion into this discussion.
Your “name” did.. .LOL!
October 21st, 2009 at 4:18 pmSo your Jebus loves death threats and murder.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:19 pmaaronk says:
I figured you wouldn’t answer it, for fear of contradicting yourself. In any case, I’ll assume that you aren’t in favor of killing toddlers. If that is the case, please tell me what you are doing to support toddlers of the world?
Do you support masturbation and the murder of the babies in your testes? If not, then your post is as dumb as they get! Toddlers != fetus != sperm
except in the lunatic fringe religious fanatic “mind”less rantings..
October 21st, 2009 at 4:19 pmdixie blood says:
So your Jebus loves death threats and murder.
Poor aaronk is “pro life” except when he believes in “terrorism” and “murder” of women and children through carpet bombs! LOL!
October 21st, 2009 at 4:20 pm#26 is where I got in. Notice no mention of God or religion. #37 from Pete is where I was asked about God…he brought it up, not me.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:21 pmi am anti-war, so I’m not sure what you are talking about. I’m also against the death penalty.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:22 pmActually, JustTheBleepinFacts, I’m trying to argue that even on their own terms, Christians opposed to abortion rights aren’t on as solid ground as they seem to believe.
I’m not sure why every Christian hasn’t internalized this if they really are believers, but right there at the beginning, supposedly brought down from the mountain by Moses after a special face-to-face, God demonstrates when life begins – with the first breath.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:22 pmaaronk says:
“#26 is where I got in.
And all the bible and religious references followed afterwards.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:27 pmYou’re full of it, aronnnk
I only replied to Pete’s question regarding the Bible, and even at that I said that I don’t think the Bible has governmental authority over the citizens.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:30 pmSo who killed all of your brain cells? Your Jebus?
October 21st, 2009 at 4:33 pmMethinks thou didst not protest much if it wasn’t you.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:34 pmState Rep: In Oklahoma, There’s A ‘Feeling That Women Aren’t Capable Of Making Reproductive Decisions’ »
Actually, that sounds like a liberal quote. You know, big daddy government, the welfare state, needs to help you make all your decisions because you can’t handle your stuff.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:39 pmThe first mention of “god” today on this thread was at the voted down comment #31 by arronk.
What a lying little c0cksucker.
You are going to hell someday for bearing false witness.
Write if you find work.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:40 pmkwsventures,
If this is not your company, listed below, then I have a feeling they would like for you to stop using their company name.
KWS Ventures
5247 Mare Creek Dr
Crestview, FL 32539-8887(Fort Walton Beach, FL Metro Area)
Phone: (850) 423-0606
Care to comment and tell the truth for a change?
October 21st, 2009 at 4:41 pmHeard one of these guys on CNN today. When asked why don’t they make the questionnaire voluntary, he said that they need total accuracy of facts to be put online. For example, there were x number of abortions for a certain reason.
So if this bill does stay around and I were a pregnant woman in OK and decided to have an abortion, I’d just fill out these guy’s lil ol questionnaire and have myself a field day making up info for their “accuracy of facts”. What can they do to me? Make me get pregnant again?
October 21st, 2009 at 4:47 pmaaronk says:
Do you support shooting & killing toddlers?
October 21st, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Only in season.
/snark
October 21st, 2009 at 4:52 pmaronk, aaronk, I cut you some slack. And you keep coming back with a silly question, totally off topic and say I can’t respond? Your non sequitor on toddlers is just that. No bearing on anything here. The thread is about people wanting to punish other people for making a life choice that our laws say is legal.
I almost liked the holy roller dork better.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:54 pmaaronk says:
“#26 is where I got in.
I only replied to Pete’s question regarding the Bible, and even at that I said that I don’t think the Bible has governmental authority over the citizens.
BS. I’ll concede you may have been name-jacked but my question about the Bible, which you failed to answer, was in response to #31, #32, and #34.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:58 pmKeep it up–
Today woman don’t know how to manage their reproduction,
Senator Kyl recently quiped during a Senate committee meeting that he doesn’t “need maternity care.”
Chris Christie, Republican gubernatorial candidate from New Jersey, equates preschool to babysitting.
Bob McDonnell in Virginia, says in his college thesis written in 1989 when McDonnell was 34 years old, calls working women detrimental to families.
30 Republican senators voted against an amendment that allows a woman to sue the government contractor she works for for gang rape on the job.
The National Republican Congressional Committee says Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi should be “put in her place.”
John Derbyshire –We’d be a better country if women didn’t vote
This from the free republic website– Mary Cheney expecting her second child—“ I wonder if Hallmark makes a card for this occasion? Yathink? Congratulations on your baster bastard?
Women still only make .76 on the dollar.
Yes, keep it up. Keep denying our children health care, keep our children in unsafe and regressive schools, keep trying to kill unions that provide us and our husbands a decent wage, keep, making it harder for us to take care of our parents, keep taking your millions in bonuses, while our 401K’s tank. Piss us off enough–
October 21st, 2009 at 5:10 pmaaronk says:
#26 is where I got in. Notice no mention of God or religion. #37 from Pete is where I was asked about God…he brought it up, not me.
Says the lying bible quack… Zzzz…
October 21st, 2009 at 5:12 pmkwsventures says:
Actually, that sounds like a liberal quote. You know, big daddy government, the welfare state, needs to help you make all your decisions because you can’t handle your stuff.
LOL! Project much bible quack?
October 21st, 2009 at 5:12 pmaaronk says:
i am anti-war, so I’m not sure what you are talking about. I’m also against the death penalty.
Except for the drug war, war on science, war on reason, war on women’s reproductive rights and war on gays? LOL!
October 21st, 2009 at 5:13 pmaaronk says:
I only replied to Pete’s question regarding the Bible, and even at that I said that I don’t think the Bible has governmental authority over the citizens.
You “don’t think” it does? LOL! What a religious fanatic!
October 21st, 2009 at 5:14 pmIf the stupid troll’s objection to abortion is not religious, Why not just say so and be done with it? I’m sure he can link to copious research on the viability of zygotes, embryos, and fetuses. I’m sure he’s read volumes on the nature of life from both a biological and spiritual perspective.
How about the specialized medicine used in keeping premature infants alive and the limits of development beyond which science can’t replicate the womb. But, how about those preemies?
What about those on the ragged edge where it’s as much luck and magic as science? Has the stupid troll actually considered the possibility that the one infant who doesn’t make it was actually born before it acquired a soul while the other, seemingly more frail, was born with soul intact? Does the soul even enter into his consideration of this very complex issue?
October 21st, 2009 at 5:18 pmFrom NPR
Report Shows Fewer Abortions Worldwide.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113781799
The number of women seeking abortions worldwide has declined dramatically in the past decade, even as laws against abortion were liberalized in many countries, according to a recent report from the Guttmacher Institute. At the same time, unintended pregnancy rates didn’t go up. These statistics are attributed to greater access to contraceptives…
The biggest change that accounts for the decline in the global abortion rate can be found in Eastern Europe. Opening up to the West meant increasing AVAILABILITY to modern contraceptives that hadn’t always been available to women there.
This is a part of the world where abortion has been legal for decades. And, in fact, abortion WAS the method for fertility control in many of these countries.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:19 pmaaronk says:
Instances of rape & incest are horrific, but…
October 21st, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Ladies & Gentlemen, this is all we need to know about aaronk.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:22 pmTell me aaronk, if “abortion” is illegal in the bible, why is it only a ‘property’ crime if a 3rd party aborts a fetus and no crime at all if the mother does in that “bible quack” book of fairy tales again? ;)
October 21st, 2009 at 5:22 pmZooey says:
aaronk says:
Instances of rape & incest are horrific, but…
October 21st, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Ladies & Gentlemen, this is all we need to know about aaronk.
What, that they aren’t horrible enough to protect the victims of them? Yep. That’s what the misogynistic GOP lunatics all believe.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:23 pmIn the eyes of aaronk and the GOP a woman loses the right to her own body the moment someone rapes her. The rapist gets to choose what woman will bear his young without consent. And since there aren’t “enough” pregnant victims of rape, they don’t have any rights or any voice. A “minority” doesn’t deserve rights under the GOP “values” mindset…
October 21st, 2009 at 5:25 pmSo to sum this up?
Rape victims don’t deserve legal protections because they are a “minority”. Yep! That’s GOP “minority” rights for you!
October 21st, 2009 at 5:26 pmaaronk is a DRUNK lying pussy and welcher.
:)
October 21st, 2009 at 5:39 pmLooks like kwsventures and arronk left together.
Probably in a van to troll for little boys at the nearest fast food joint in Crestview, FL.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:41 pmLiar.
You brought “god” into the discussion at post #31 you lying bastard.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:47 pmFine, then every man that uses Viagra (or any other stiffy drug) must submit a form telling the time, date, relationship to the person drug was taken for, etc.. (we will probably need some info from the other participant, if there was one)
Then that can be put up on the internet also.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:11 pmsister-girl might want to consider hiring a different stylist. the one she has now makes her look like cruella de ville
October 21st, 2009 at 7:06 pmEver been to Oklahoma? It very much like the bottom of a very deep baby hamper full of soiled diapers….’nuf said?
October 21st, 2009 at 7:41 pmWell actually, now that you mention it, funny that you should, the Bible unequivocally states that life begins when the child draws it’s first breath. In Genesis, Adam is not alive until god causes him to breath.
And if you want proof of this, the law is a life for a life. But a fetus is not considered a life in the Bible. The punishment for a forced or accidental abortion is monetary. In such case, it stands to reason that if a woman should choose to have her “fruit depart from her” that she can fine herself and call the whole thing a day.
October 21st, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Just got here, only glanced through the repsonses.
I just have one question.
Whatever happened to Doctor/Patient privilage?
October 21st, 2009 at 9:13 pmJacked or Not.
BuhBye Erronk.
October 21st, 2009 at 9:22 pmDemocrat Soldier says:
——————————————————————————–
#26 – aaronk says:
———————————————————–
“Each year, it creeps a little more toward taking away women’s freedom to kill unborn children”
October 21st, 2009 at 3:03 pm
So, name the organizations that provide services for children to whom you have you provided your support.
If you do not support children AFTER they are born, what gives your the foundation to “claim” support children who haven’t been born yet?
The vast majority of supposed “pro-lifers” are in fact nothing but pro-birthers. They only care about the child as long as the chind resides in a womb. the very second that chind leaves the womb, their support completely dissappears.
So, Aaronk, tell us what support you provide AFTER the child is born?
Are you suggesting that the good xtian fetus lovers aren’t lining up to care for the unwanted babies they insist on forcing on women? Oh well, growing up unwanted and neglected probably has no effect on a kid anyway.
October 21st, 2009 at 9:24 pmThere is a feeling in many parts of America that Oklahomans are bloody out of their minds… What causes these right-wing mental abberations? Have they been singing the songs in “Oklahoma” too many times for their mental health to become impaired?
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:44 amEither aaronk’s name was hijacked, or he had a stroke today. For one, when has he ever posted with no caps or used “u” instead of “you”? I’ve always found his *writing* to be educated, even if his ideas aren’t.
/bangs head
Oh for the love of Pete. &%^&$^%#^%#^%#^%$E*%&
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:08 amWomen are not safe in OK. They should not travel to OK, spend money in OK or vacation in OK. Not only do they disrespect a woman’s reproductive rights, OK US senators: Coburn and Inhofe voted against the Franken amendment to the dod budget forbidding american government contracts to contractors who “approve of gang rape” of their female employees. Not only did Halliburton (in this case) permit the gang rape to go unreported to legal authorities, but they imprisoned one of their own employees in a shipping container under guard. What kind of arrogant SOB’s are US taxpayers supporting??? Oh, that’s right Halliburton was Cheney’s NO BID CONTRACT CHOICE, a company he owns stock in..
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:27 amAnd why do women vote for these pigs anyways? I’ve tried passing this along to my mother and younger sister, but I swear every time I try this, I end up preaching to the choir, since theyre both so dead-set in their politics that no facts are going to sway them (case in point: My mom is still supporting McDonnell in VA for governor, even after his thesis came out; her rationale is “theyre (Deeds) doing this just to sling mud at McDonnell”).
October 26th, 2009 at 7:03 pmThey preach fear tactics about healthcare reform, calling it “socialized medicine” and saying things like “the government is going to come between you and your doctor”… And then they go and pass a restrictive and INVASIVE abortion law.. Whos the “Big Government” now, huh?
How are we going to reach out to the women who tend to vote this way and explain to them that this is what their elected officals are doing and by voting for them, not only are they approving this law, but they are giving men permission to treat them like property, not people?
Remember “Noone can make you feel inferior without your consent”- Thank you, Elanor (sp?) Roosevelt!
October 26th, 2009 at 7:09 pmPower over a woman’s reproductive rights translates to power over women, and some men still have difficulty giving that up estetik. I think far too many still see women as “property” instead of as individual human beings, and that has to change estetik burun ameliyati. We keep pushing forward, but in some ways I feel like we’re still very much trapped in the Victorian era gögüs büyütme. Which is why it infuriates me especially to see women among the teabaggers whining about wanting their country back estetik gögüs ameliyatlari. Which part? The part where you were chattel gögüs küçültme? Where you didn’t have a right to vote, own, inherit property vajina daraltma? Birthers and Deathers and Town Hallers…oh my! Where’s a flying monkey when you need one lazer epilasyon fiyatlari? But then, I’ve seen women who cater to their husbands – and by that, I don’t mean just being kind. karin germe ameliyatlari.. I mean “My husband is the ruler of the house” (now excuse me while I go lose my lunch plastik cerrahi). I think they have been so brainwashed by Beck, Limbaugh and that whole disgusting bunch that they really do believe that “Marxists, Communists, Socialists etc. karin estetigi” are taking over and they’re going to be put in internment camps saç nakli. And you know the worst part? Eight years from now, assuming President Obama gets two terms. gögüs büyütme their lives will be better, and yet they’ll still be terrified and crying for “their country back” gögüs diklestirme. And yet they didn’t cry like that when Bush and company were causing so much damage gögüs küçültme. I can’t imagine being so lost, so confused, so deluded that you lose the ability to think for yourself vajina daraltma ameliyati. What a horrible way to live. Some women just like to play the role. gögüs estetigi Let the “big, strong man” make all the decisions and they just don’t have to worry their pretty little heads about things.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:58 am