Uninformed Hannity Tries To Provoke Culture War Over NYC Subway Atheist Ads
Uninformed Hannity Tries To Provoke Culture War Over NYC Subway Atheist Ads
During his Fox News show on Tuesday night, right-wing pundit Sean Hannity attacked a new ad campaign soon to be appearing in New York City subway stations that raises awareness about atheism. The ad, sponsored by The Big Apple Coalition of Reason, reads: “A million New Yorkers are good without God. Are you?”
“These ads inform New Yorkers that a million or more of their neighbors are good without God,” said Michael De Dora Jr., the executive director for the New York branch of the Center for Inquiry. “That is, a million of us have found or created natural morality, and lead good, productive, and meaningful lives without appeal to religious dogma or God.”
Sensing an opportunity to exploit the ads for political benefit, Hannity told his audience that a Christian group could never get away with airing ads like that:
Can you imagine the outrage if a Christian group put pro-God ads in the New York City subways? What outrage.
Watch it:
But as Subway Sights — a blog about the NYC subway system — explains, “The problem with this thinking is that Christians have been putting up pro-Christianity ads in the subway for years and nobody cares.” The blogger continues, “There are ads for all kinds of competing churches, each offering their own flavor of Christianity and their own path to salvation,” and offers this photograph as evidence:
Subway Sights concludes, “Of course, Sean Hannity doesn’t factor this into his argument because he doesn’t ride the subway and has no idea what he’s talking about.”
Indeed, Hannity doesn’t seem to ride the subway. He has said, “I travel on private planes, I have an SUV that I’m proud of.” But his lack of knowledge never stops him from opining on things he knows little about.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
He just never ceases to amaze and amuse.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:12 amHe ALWAYS ceases to amaze and amuse me…
October 24th, 2009 at 9:20 amHannity used to be pretty slick, but he’s starting to get sloppy. Like the GOP the desperation is throwing him off his game.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:32 amOde to Sean Hannity by John Cleese
Aping urbanity
Oozing with vanity
Plump as a manatee
Faking humanity
Journalistic calamity
Intellectual inanity
Fox Noise insanity
Youre a profanity
Hannity
http://poem-of-the-week.blogspot.com/2008/10/ode-to-sea…
October 24th, 2009 at 9:41 amAnd this brings us back to the supposed “war” on Fox. Here’s an interesting explanation of what really happened concerning the press pool for Feinberg’s interview the other day –> http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/wh-were-happy-to-exclude-fox-but-didnt-yesterday-with-feinberg-interview.php?ref=fpblg
So, it looks like there wasn’t any attempt to exclude FoxSnooze . . . but that sure hasn’t kept them from playing victim and whining about it 24/7.
The rest of the media is doing just exactly what the White House cautioned them against. They’re picking up the story from Fox without researching the facts and setting the record straight. They’re letting Fox control the message and the agenda.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:46 amHannity is just another sanctimonious, book burning, part-time “christian” who pays lip service (not boots on the ground service) to what he believes to be James Dobson-defined “christian values” (hating minorities, gay people, and anything supported by Democrats).
October 24th, 2009 at 9:47 am” Never let the Truth stand in the way of a Good Story”
-Mark Twain
October 24th, 2009 at 9:56 amI am so sick of us atheists being looked on as less than second class citizens. Especially when I can’t go anywhere without being told by some sign, person or inference that I am going to hell and am a “bad” person. Everyone assumes you are a part of some form of Christianity. When you tell them you are not, the mouth foaming starts. At least I have the civility to not tell them what I think of their podunk, hypocritical beliefs.
I know there are some Christians on here. I do not mean to offend you. I have never seen anyone here that claims to be Christian to be a hypocrite or to tell me I am less than them, so not applicable.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:10 amWe have one of those billboards here in town. They always have clouds, and are very calming to the eye, and the message is quite low key — never “in your face.”
But from the reaction that came out of the fundie whackjobs in this town, you’d think the billboards had pictures of mutilated children stacked like cord wood.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:17 amI wonder what it would be like if, for two weeks, (it’s a start), there could be a moratorium by every progressive blog on highlighting the idiocy, hypocrisy and demagogic mindlessness of dyed in the wool dumbf**ks like Hannity, Bleck and El Sh*tbo?
The biggest way that these jerks exist in my world is through the progressive blogs that I read. I don’t have cable and I don’t read conservative blogs. So it seems like the main way they get beyond their own manic/sycophantic audience is through alternate paths like these posts. Is anyone here surprised by this post? It’s just Hannity’s Stupid of the Day contribution. Sometimes I do think that there’s some sort of mutual enabling society with both sides using the other to generate content.
Hannity’s a f**wit but he also gets a lot more attention than he deserves for someone who’s a f**kwit.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:18 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Indeed, Hannity doesn’t seem to ride the subway. He has said, “I travel on private planes, I have an SUV that I’m proud of.” But his lack of knowledge never stops him from opining on things he knows little about.
Hannity is the perfect repug model of “Dumbass”.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:19 amHannity…have you ever been to the subway station underneath the Port Authority-Times Square? It’s physically impossible to get to your train without being accosted by Jesus freaks.
Nothing worse than a bloviating, elitist scumbag trying to stir up kulturkampf. Particularly when it’s painfully obvious that said scumbag has absolutely ZERO freaking idea what he’s talking about.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:21 amTom, I heard a brief report on the same thing, regarding Fox and the Feinberg interview, but it was barely mentioned – once, that I heard.
However, I heard many times that the other media chiefs were rushing to Fox’s side in defense of “one of their own” being shunned.
I agree with you, Fox controls the media – apparently none of them can think or act without Fox – they took Fox’s false interpretation of this and covered it as part of the WH “war with Fox.”
One would think that network chiefs would check their facts, but they, too, are brow-beat by Fox, don’t want to risk hurting their feelings, and suffering their wrath.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:22 amPhony Fox is taking over the media and their influence is growing by the day.
Diena Thompson was given a lock of her 7 year old daughter’s hair,
but she won’t be able to see her before burying her…
try to imagine that…
“god” doesn’t matter one damn bit.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:23 amburro, you’d have 2 weeks of free reign insanity…
can’t do it…
any more that you should ignore your children for 2 weeks…
get real.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:27 amSelf-righteous, pompous and arrogant.
Those are traits exhibited by Hannity and other christians who think they are better than the rest of us.
Jesus would be so proud.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:27 amkaty says:
“god” doesn’t matter one damn bit.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:23 am
That’s probably something she shouldn’t have running around her brain the rest of her days, but I get your point. It’s so terribly sad.
“God” is supposed to be all powerful, and can supposedly punish us for saying naughty words or make us rich if we pray hard enough — but he can’t (or won’t) stop a child being horrendously murdered?
Uh huh…you’re right, katy. “God” doesn’t matter at all.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:28 amMarie says:
Tom, I heard a brief report on the same thing, regarding Fox and the Feinberg interview, but it was barely mentioned – once, that I heard.
rachel reported it last night also… that after the complaints, the w.h. obliged and let fox into the interview…
i will read tom’s link now…
October 24th, 2009 at 10:30 am“Uninformed Hannity” is redundant.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:31 ammy thoughts exactly zooey…
October 24th, 2009 at 10:32 amMarie, I just emailed Fox (at feedback@foxnews.com if you are likewise inclined) about this.
I told them that I expected them to fact-check Garrett’s report since he is in their news department, not their opinion department.
I also said I expected a response from them on their findings. . . . and that, if their original report was in error, I suggested that they should issue a retraction and correction with the same frequency and on the same shows (including Seanie Vanity, Glenda BeckyBoy, O’Lielly, et. al.) where they have been playing the “victim card” about this supposed snub for the past three days.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:33 amWhat an arrogant maroon!
October 24th, 2009 at 10:34 amThis always gets the Jesus freaks….
If Jesus walked the earth…why hasn’t he ever signed his name or written anything in 33 yrs???
You know the people who wrote the bible thought the world was flat!!!!
Largest new religion…Atheits
2nd largest belief in Canada, Atheism.
In the stars according to the ages (www.zeitgeistmovie.com) religion dies off by 2150. I can see how it’s starting to happen….maybe there is hope!!!
October 24th, 2009 at 10:39 amSubway Sights concludes, “Of course, Sean Hannity doesn’t factor this into his argument because he doesn’t ride the subway and has no idea what he’s talking about.”
I can assure you that not only is Hannity not riding the subways, he is not seeing the poorer areas of NYC. This the out of sight-out of mind mentality with conservatives. They live in a fantasy world that they have constructed to affirm their beliefs rather than seeking the truth.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:42 amThose poor heterosexual white Christian males. They’re the world’s most persecuted majority.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:43 amHeinz is jealous of my party because when it comes to wars, we have more than 57 varieties.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:45 amMycelium says: “Why all the fixation on faux news pundits? They discredit themselves with nearly everything that comes out of their pie holes. No need to keep convincing us that faux is fauked-up.”
I quite agree!
Let’s ignore their lies and influence and it will all just go away!
There’s no point in documenting every instance of FOX’s fraud and hypocrisy that so clearly shapes the perceptions of a significant voting bloc and that provides sanctuary, support and validation to murderers. faith-based sexual predators, misogynists, racists, warmongers, white collar thieves, self-serving hucksters and general incompetents who affect our lives.
Whilst we’re at let’s start ignoring every instance of every word and action we already know is bad—like bigotry, and rape and theft and the contamination of food and financial fraud, and fraud and everything else that we know bad people do.
Why, if people had just ignored Hitler’s propaganda then WWII could have been completely avoided! If we’d have just ignored the KKK then hanging African-Americans for being dark-skinned wouldn’t have been as widespread. If we just ignore the Catholic excuses for sexual predation the problem will solve itself!
Shithead.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:47 amWhile there may be individual christians who live their beliefs, christianity doesn’t seem to. Building palaces to show jesus how much you love him instead of using that money to take care of the 47 million jobless in this country is unconscionable. 47 million people with out jobs means a whole lot more people living in poverty. A rock in a field was good enough for Christ, but he was a dirty fu(king hippie.
A few years ago, one of the biggest mega churches in my area sent it’s parishioners a DVD of the Christmas service so everyone could watch at home because Christmas happened to fall on a Sunday that year. They didn’t want to inconvenience anyone by expecting them to come to church on Christ’s birthday.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:48 am5th Estate says:
YOU have provoked my wrath. I’m like a wild animal when I’m angry. I can be Mario or I can be Bowser. It’s up to you.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:51 amm3vega says:
Ode to Sean Hannity by John Cleese
Aping urbanity
Oozing with vanity
Plump as a manatee
Faking humanity
Journalistic calamity
Intellectual inanity
Fox Noise insanity
Youre a profanity
Hannity
Word.
Muthaf ucka.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:56 am5th Estate says:
Mycelium says: “Why all the fixation on faux news pundits? They discredit themselves with nearly everything that comes out of their pie holes. No need to keep convincing us that faux is fauked-up.”
I quite agree!
Let’s ignore their lies and influence and it will all just go away!
No–they won’t go away. Fox continues spewing its lies and misrepresentations over the public airwaves every day and every hour. They need to be challenged every day to show them they cannot spew with impunity. The point of freedom of the press is to allow the exchange of ideas, but that does not relieve us of the responsibility of challenging those ideas, particularly when they are build on lies.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:57 amSean Mannity is nothing more than a “Hate Pimp”. He trades in it, he loves it, his profits from it. May God strike his dirty filthy soul down and cast him into the fires of hell forever for it!
October 24th, 2009 at 10:58 amI figure Sean Hannity will give me his SUV for being a Great American ™. That’s why I call into his show every day and shower him with praise.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:01 amNOLIESPLEASE says:
You know the people who wrote the bible thought the world was flat!!!!
Largest new religion…Atheits
2nd largest belief in Canada, Atheism.
I have to correct you there. Atheism isn’t a religion or a belief.
Also, I can;t think of any part of the Bible that describes the world as flat–do you know of any?
The ancient Greeks, significantly predating Christianity, knew the world was round. Trade with the Greeks would have exposed scholars in the ME to the fact that the world was ( and still is :D ) a globe.
It may be that it doesn’t get mentioned in many ancient scripts because it was mundane and irrelevant to the subject being written about.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:01 amMy head is still spinning from 5th’s piece. Damn you, 5th Estate. Damn you to hell.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:02 amMycelium and burro, things can’t be that bad, you were here yesterday with the same concern troll meme about Becky, remember? I mean it’s not as if you’re going away and never coming back, right?
October 24th, 2009 at 11:02 am#29 bobwurst says:
Building palaces to show jesus how much you love him instead of using that money to take care of the 47 million jobless in this country is unconscionable. 47 million people with out jobs means a whole lot more people living in poverty.
The riches owned by religions are obscene; they fly in the face of the supposed mission of the church.
Yet many of their sheep flock to their sermons every Sunday, put their money in the collection, and go home feeling all righteous, as they resume their thoughtless, selfish and un-christian acts for the rest of the week.
I think Bible says God is in you. Instead of praying to an unseen, unprovable being, one should instead look inside of ourselves, and let our conscience tell us to do what is right.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:10 ampags2 says: No–they won’t go away.
You do understand my “I agree” comment was sarcastic, right? ‘cos i can’t quite tell from the way you responded.
I agree with you.
Though the individual utterances of Hannity and his FOX ilk are invariably nonsensical, petulant and trivial, the facts are that they collectively form a disjointed and dangerous world-view by sheer volume (of sound and quantity).
Advertising and repetition DOES have an affect, for both the demagogues and their critics. Every instance of falsehood needs to be challenged, other wise fact and truth become selective and lies become the norm.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:13 amHow can society reasonably function when reason and logic are considered no more valid than wild conjecture and illogic?
I find the comparison of Hannity to manatees to be quite absurd and offensive. Manatees are much, MUCH better looking.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:16 amI believeth I shall begintth talking more like this in public to seeth how they shall be left confused and wondering…
October 24th, 2009 at 11:17 amAbout 20 years ago, Chicago had a serious problem at O’Hare airport with the Hare Krishnas. They were all over the airport bothering people with their literature. If you told them to go away they would not and insist you take a book. If you took the book they demanded money. There were so many complaints that the city passed an ordinance restricting all solicitation, religious or otherwise to a small specific space in the airport. That is why cities restrict some of the religious activities in public areas. You can buy any ads you want for the subway and buses, but you cannot put up your own without permission. Nor can you use public transport to proselytize with literature or approach people. This has been held constitutional by the federal court in Chicago. This ordinance has also been used to stop street people from panhandling on public transport.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:19 amI have to correct you there. Atheism isn’t a religion or a belief.
—
October 24th, 2009 at 11:20 amOh how I miss 76 hour straight meth fueled chaos…
Atheism is a belief system. Fact.
:|
October 24th, 2009 at 11:21 amNot to mention, that you can’t go to any public event anymore without running into some street preacher on a bull horn or someone toting their own personal karyoke machine reading from the Bible.
I believe in freedom of speech, but sheesh, these people are like Sisyphus.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:22 amReligion, wars & AIG executives create American jobs. We depend on all that for our growf.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:26 amLibertyLover says:
Not to mention, that you can’t go to any public event anymore without running into some street preacher on a bull horn…
It isn’t just public events. We have some of them standing in the major thoroughfares with bullhorns soliciting donations. The local officials do not want to ban all soliciting because that would exclude legit charities like the veterans poppy day.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:27 amHannity is not only uneducated (construction worker turned talking hate spewer), the is a liar.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:30 am“Blessed are the cheesemakers”.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:31 amWhat the GOP REALLY means … says:
Atheism is a belief system. Fact.
Don’t you dare!!! Even as a joke! Bartlebee could be watching!
I see ads on tv for books, dvd’s, and music for Christianity. Can you imagine tv ads for Islam or atheism? Never happen.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:37 am“there shall, in that time, be *rumors* of things going astray, errrm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things wi – with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend’s hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o’clock.”
October 24th, 2009 at 11:37 amDid Hannity actually get into NYU? He is more of a dumbass than I could ever dream of being, yet I’m the one who, for the life of me, can’t get into an elite school.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:37 amAtheism is a f ucking belief system you twits! (x1000)
October 24th, 2009 at 11:38 amWhat the GOP : Atheism is a belief system. Fact.
Yes, actually you are correct.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:38 ambut atheism isn’t a religion…
October 24th, 2009 at 11:41 amKeith says:
What the GOP REALLY means … says:
Atheism is a belief system. Fact.
Don’t you dare!!! Even as a joke! Bartlebee could be watching!
Oh the memories!
October 24th, 2009 at 11:46 amWhat atheism needs is a symbol, some instantly recognizable manifestation of its primacy in the fates and affairs of humankind, you know, like the Christians have.
Like a piece of toast that looks like a piece of toast, or some knot in a tree that looks like a knot in a tree, or a water stain on a bridge pillar that… well you get the idea.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:49 amdbadass says: but atheism isn’t a religion…
ah! But atheism is ‘areligion’ :D
October 24th, 2009 at 11:51 amI am partial to pancakes that look like pancakes. Still Dorito shaped Doritos might be a possibility.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:54 amHi vote down baby. Raining in your parts as well?
October 24th, 2009 at 11:55 amCrap. That puffed-up moron Hannity ought to ride the Metro here in Los Angeles – I have to run the gauntlet of Jehovah’s Witnesses and bible-thumpers every single damn day.
My best way to piss them off? Bless them in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster: “May He touch you with His Noodly Appendage!” :O)
Now the JW’s boo me when I walk by. Hehehe!
October 24th, 2009 at 11:56 amHi vote down baby. Raining in your parts as well?
October 24th, 2009 at 11:55 am Vote Up | Vote Down | (-1) | Report Abuse
October 24th, 2009 at 12:00 pm—–
This always makes me giggle. Being a pussy must sort of suck hard….
“And the world was without form and void, and then no-one said let there be light, and no one said it was good or bad because there were no life-forms to offer an opinion on the merits or otherwise of photons.”
October 24th, 2009 at 12:03 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
5th Estate says:
What atheism needs is a symbol, some instantly recognizable manifestation of its primacy in the fates and affairs of humankind, you know, like the Christians have.
I would suggest the medical symbols for man and woman interlocked.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:14 pmdbadass says: Hi vote down baby. Raining in your parts as well?
Oh noes! I have been voted DOWN! That’s like losing charisma points! It must be a punishment from God, or a piece of toast bearing his Son’s image!
October 24th, 2009 at 12:15 pmvote down baby:
October 24th, 2009 at 12:26 pmDoes it hurt you inside that your “existance is so fleeting? Just wondering…
Zooey says:
“God” is supposed to be all powerful, and can supposedly punish us for saying naughty words or make us rich if we pray hard enough — but he can’t (or won’t) stop a child being horrendously murdered?
I have been saying the same thing to my christian friends for years. If there really is a god and he doesn’t have the power or desire to protect the children, I don’t want any part of him/her/it.
The words and actions of many of these right wing christian fanatics flies in the face of some of their core beliefs: do good and you get to spend eternity floating on a cloud, with jebus, inside the pearly gates (obviously the gates will keep the Moslems and gays out), or if you do bad you spend eternity roasting in the fires of hell.
I try to live by the “golden rule”, without promise of goodies or fear of reprisal when I die. There is no doubt in my mind that when one dies, it’s the end of the story.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:32 pmBut aren’t you folks getting a little tired of all the Beck, Hannity, Limpballs, and O’liely threads? – Mycelium
No.
I mean it’s not as if you’re going away and never coming back, right? – Greg Brady
Truer words…
October 24th, 2009 at 12:36 pmActually…Yes, there are.
In Daniel 4:10-11, Daniel described seeing, “a tree of great height at the centre of the earth…reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth’s farthest bounds.” In Matthew, the devil himself “took [Matthew]him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory.”
Those passages are only possible if the world were flat. They are also used by flat-earthers throughout history to justify the view of the world being flat. The firmament, the foundation, and more, also only word as-is in a flat earth. Thus, the world in those ancient times was seen as flat surface, with a dome above it covered in stars (micro-sized stars that would fall to the earth like rain, mind you), sitting atop a foundation, with rain literally pouring through holes in the firmament (for real…holes in the sky that God pours rain through), and much more.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:36 pm.
Of course it’s not propagandizing YOUR Religion when Christians do it.
.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:42 pmWell, for those who complain about the Beck/Hannity/Rush threads…several other posters made a perfect point that we need to air out these lies – when I hear about them here, I spread the truth elsewhere, yanno?
And also, well, I admit it, it feels really GOOD to beat the shit out of these morons; you know, say to/about them *exactly* what I’m feeling – it’s not like I can call them ’sh*t-sucking, mouth-breathing, muthaf-ing syphilitic cretins’ out loud…
Just sayin’. ;o)
October 24th, 2009 at 12:42 pmLeftside Annie says:
I admit it, it feels really GOOD to beat the shit out of these morons;
It would be more gratifying if we could have a massive protest outside of Fox News in New York. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than watching their news commentators having to be escorted by police through a mob of protestors. I bet you would have to check O’Reilly and Hannity’s underwear after that experience.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:50 pmMycelium says:
But did you comprehend the logical conclusions I drew from your comment?
Your arguments have been heard before from others and are in the minority. Ignoring liars and idiots does not diminish their effect whilst they possess a mainstream pulpit from which to propagandize.
How the hell do you think we got into a war and occupation in Iraq? Because the invalidity of the justifications for war was ignored by the press, and enough people were convinced by the unopposed lies to provide Bush/Cheney et al the confidence to prosecute the war.
EVERYTHING the Bush administration did was enabled by a lack of consistent and constant rational critique.
You can express your ideas of what this blog features to the admins. You can frequent the Wonk Room to discuss the issues that YOU think are so much more important than ensuring the lies and propaganda of the right wing don’t go unchallenged or be allowed to shape the public discourse on matters of consequence.
Hannity is not alone in being a dangerous idiot. His present faithful won’t be converted to reason, but without publicly accessible contradiction to his advocacy of illogic and ignorance his audience could grow–or at least be maintained—and haven’t we seen enough damage from letting people like him and the organization he works for get away with their crap for the past decade?
What fun is made of him by TP commenters is not the issue, what matters is that TP, and other blogs expose the lies and fraud as long as they are there to expose.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:51 pmSomeone should tell Hannity that he is not exactly the poster child for Christian charity.
So many of us have abandoned any sort of faith in a “god,” due in no small part to the massive numbers of arrogant hypocrites like Hannity and Beck that claim to be adherents.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:51 pm“Atheism” is a board game from Parker Bros.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:56 pmLet’s change the subject to Tom Donahue’s free enterprise campaign!
October 24th, 2009 at 12:58 pmIt is decidedly so.
October 24th, 2009 at 1:04 pmAs an atheist, I don’t care if there’s religious signs on subways or other paid advertising space. I’m opposed to government-endorsed religion, not commercial religious speech.
October 24th, 2009 at 1:12 pmInshannity is a pathological liar. At least when it comes to political opponents.
October 24th, 2009 at 1:16 pmI don’t recall the author but I recall a great quote.
There are only three possibilities that fit the available facts.
1. There never was a God.
October 24th, 2009 at 1:20 pm2. God is long since dead.
3. God is a psychopathic bastard.
Moderation says:
In Daniel 4:10-11, Daniel described seeing, “a tree of great height at the centre of the earth…reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth’s farthest bounds.” In Matthew, the devil himself “took [Matthew]him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory.”
Those passages are only possible if the world were flat
Thanks for the research, that’s good stuff, but I don’t think it makes the case.
All the first passage describes is the visible boundary of the earth, not it’s geometry.
To see the actual boundary of the round earth requires the observer to be as distant from the surface as the globe’s diameter.
To see the boundary of a flat earth would NOT require as proportionally great an elevation in practice or in theory–the perceived edge or boundary of a flat earth would be increasingly apparent but unchanging as elevation increased, whereas with a round earth the perceived edge would appear to recede ( or extend) because of curvature until the actual circumferential limit was reached.
Seas were being sailed long before Matthew was written. As the horizon is only approx three miles distant to the the sea level eye, early sailors would have noticed that coastlines and islands would “rise up” into view, from top to bottom as well as growing larger as they were approached, rather than being completely visible from top to bottom but tiny and simply scaling-up.
How this phenomenon was actually articulated to others or indeed to themselves is anyone’s guess–indeed the issue may never have been discussed at all, any more than the fact that water is wet.
I imagine early sailors didn’t necessarily need to formulate any theories about the horizon effect, all they needed to know was that it occurred, just like the sun rising and setting.
to be continued…
October 24th, 2009 at 1:47 pmAtheism is a f ucking belief system you twits! (x1000)
Thanks to all those who posted there reserch about my comment.
There is no such thing as good and evil. There is only right or wrong!!
Is it good or evil to make a profit while others suffer from your greed??? Where does religion fit in???? Or should we say ….is it right or wrong to make a profit while others suffer from your greed???
If you said its good to make a profit while others suffer…THIS IS THE WORLD YOU ARE LIVING IN.
If you said it’s wrong to make a profit while others suffer….THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE TO MAKE OUR FUTURE….THATS THE REAL CHANGE.
October 24th, 2009 at 1:51 pmdbadass says:
“Blessed are the bignoses…”
October 24th, 2009 at 1:53 pmHannity is a bignose.
Ahh shuddup ya bignose!
October 24th, 2009 at 1:55 pmI think it goes beyond the house of “uninformed” and heads right on down the street to the residence of “proudly ignorant.”
October 24th, 2009 at 2:13 pmDeliberate omission of details. Deliberate spewing of falsehoods.
And Fox wonders why we don’t consider it an actual news station.
Moderation says: In Matthew, the devil himself “took [Matthew]him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory.”
Again, no mention of the actual geometry of “the world”, but I have to admit this is the stronger flat-earth argument.
A round earth would arguably require an observation point from the highest mountain of all to see the entire flat world, or else from a lower but still very high mountain with a decent view, where there were no kingdoms beyond the highest mountain.
Now as you state: “They are also used by flat-earthers throughout history to justify the view of the world being flat”
With regard to the second passage from Matthew being used to support a flat-earth construct, without retroactively applying modern thought and evidence, the problem with this passage is that the description of “the world” is clearly attributed to ” the devil” who is of course a known deceiver.
In other words the claim becomes “the world is flat because the Devil said so (or implied it, anyway). But as everything the Devil does and says is false, then the Earth must not be flat but rather it’s the complete opposite and ergo, spherical!
TA-DA! :D
Given the image of the Devil describing the world from some scenic outlook naturally reminds me of the scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
MICHAEL PALIN: “Someday son, all this will be yours!”
October 24th, 2009 at 2:19 pmTERRY JONES: “What, the curtains?!”
The “big three” from FAUX are all religious fanatics. Becky, bless his heart, quite obviously suffers from the constant torment of John Smith and Moroni endlessly babbling in his ears. It’s driven him quite mad.
Bill0, overshadowed by the flamboyance and batscat of his peers, hardly even seems to get angry anymore, unless he’s talking to Richard Dawkins or somone else who tries to educate him.
And then there’s little Sean Inshannity who blows a gasket over the mere fact that there are countless people who live very good lives without giving religion a second thought.
I could be wrong but I think the fact that all three are pathological liars and apologists for God is significant. They display the level of dishonesty that only true Believers seem able to muster. They have a fantasy world to which they retreat which follows only their own laws. This is a land where other religions don’t even exist. Other cultures don’t exist. And smart people, who tell stupid people they are stupid, don’t exist.
After a time, people who retreat to a fantasy world lose their ability to interact with the real world. And this failure turns to bitterness and hate. Not for the fantasy world that lies to them but, for the real world that reminds them they are just little bags of protoplasm waiting to be recycled.
October 24th, 2009 at 2:20 pmBTW. Atheism is not a belief system you fcuking twit. It’s not even clearly defined.
There are religions without deities who’s followers are atheists. There are atheists who are simply ignorant of religion. There are passive atheists and militant atheists. There is “hard atheism” and “soft atheism” and countless others. The only thing they all have in a common is “no God”. It’s really just that simple yet, apparently, too complex for some.
October 24th, 2009 at 2:26 pmpete @ 88,
Exquisite comment!
October 24th, 2009 at 2:41 pmBartlebee? bit? D-Man?
October 24th, 2009 at 2:42 pmYour thoughts?
God is Just…
October 24th, 2009 at 3:06 pmpretend.
“I like your Christ, it is the Christians I have a problem with. They are so unlike your Christ.”
October 24th, 2009 at 3:37 pm-Gandhi
Shouldn’t ‘Uninformed’ be Hannity’s new first name? Or make that ‘Misinformed’….or just make that ‘Liar’ Hannity. That’ll work just as well………
October 24th, 2009 at 3:49 pmBluedahlia @ 8′, I like your thunking!
I assure you my value system is not contingent on yours.
I don’t want your value system contingent on mine.
If I value my rights, I also have to place the same value on your rights. Plan and simple.
We also assume personal contributions reflect a neutral or provide a positive expression of those value systems to society.
I find the argument today amusing. I have the Religious Right cramming their designer version of Christianity down people’s throats. I find the other end of the spectrum placing these ads in the public domain. Where in the hell is anybody extending any respect for the values of the other person? Is any of this contributing positively to society?
I think the problem is obvious. The general publics understanding in human psychology
is pathetic, and the rigors of a sound Religious training lacking.
Bottom line, you worship your tree stump and I will worship mine, and we both can be happy.
Big question is where and when do we start?
October 24th, 2009 at 3:52 pmWhere’s the disrespect in this ad? I don’t see it.
October 24th, 2009 at 3:59 pmI guess that Sheer Insanity don’t look out the window of his limo that much because christians DO put up things like that BUT unlike the “GODLESS HEATHEN ATHEIST” “signs” they are RUDE, & UNCHRISTIAN!
1. Anti- Atheist Billboard.
Says:
“ATHEIST
Someone who believes that nothing made everything
A scientific impossibility!”
Billboard Pic #1
2. Holdup Billboard:
Says:
“If god doesn’t matter to him, do you?” (Must see the billboard to get it)
Billboard Pic #2
3. Notre Dame Anti-Obama & Anti-Choice(But it says “Pro-Abortion”)
Says:
NOTRE DAME:
Obama is pro-abortion.
How dare you honor him.
Billboard Pic #3
I’m an Atheist but I was raised a baptist by my Mother who is still a christian but she doesn’t go to church anymore because she says that she is so disgusted by the way these “so called christians” are acting now, especially the ones that call themselves “conservatives” and the ones that have aligned themselves with the “G NO P”. I may be an Atheist now but I still remember plenty of things about Christianity & the bible, I especially remember the #1 thing that a majority of ALL CHRISTIANS seem to forget about while they are judging homosexuals, pro-choice people, non-christians etc… so to help them out here it is: “THOU SHALL NOT JUDGE”! If you are a TRUE christian then you would know that your bible says that it is GOD’S JOB TO JUDGE, NOT YOURS and if you call yourself a christian & know that part of being a good christian is being tolerant, accepting, forgiving & NOT JUDGING yet you continue doing so that makes you a HYPOCRITE OF THE WORST KIND!!! GROW UP CHRISTIANS & START ACTING LIKE CHRISTIANS SHOULD, HELL ATHEISTS ARE WAY MORE TOLERANT THEN ALL OF YOU SO CALLED “CHRISTIANS”!
October 24th, 2009 at 4:22 pmpete@ 96,
Why is there a need to even go there with the ad? The answer can get convoluted in short order. The Religious Right’s sterling behavior doesn’t help my argument either.
We have a right to free speech, but have an obligation to consider “the reactions” to what is said.
Either respect or contempt, how do you choose to live with the guy next to you!
Some how we have to start somewhere, right.
October 24th, 2009 at 4:31 pmWhy does Hannity keep sticking his nose in places where it doesn’t belong?
October 24th, 2009 at 4:54 pmNo, not in the actual texts. It states all of the kingdoms of the world. And the word “world” in this case is more correctly defined as “cosmos”. In other words, the text literally said you could see the entire cosmos from the highest points on earth, and could likewise see the highest point on earth from the ends of the world. YOU are assuming they meant the horizon. The texts don’t say that, they clearly state that the entire world could be seen. Not all the kingdoms of the region, or within view up to the horizon, et al. Everything. All of it. Which is obviously quite wrong.
These were texts by and for the masses themselves. The learned Greeks all knew the earth was round. Eratosthenes calculated the earth’s diameter with astonishing accuracy in ~225BC. The learned also knew that lunar eclipses showed the shadow of the earth over the moon.
Nevertheless, the masses themselves thought the earth was flat, in (very) large part due to the texts in question. The specific cosmology was clear, written down in texts considered sacred and infallible, and also depicted quite often in art. A round earth view wasn’t the norm by any stretch.
Umm, yeah, that’s all true. And yet, that is not what the understanding was of the people in question. But you are assuming that these sailors, for example, understood the curvature on a globe. They likely did not. You are stating things that are obvious to a person who has been exposed to such, including geometry, for most of their life. The masses for most of human history did not have that luxury.
to be continued…
October 24th, 2009 at 5:01 pmadam42069gc @ 97,
October 24th, 2009 at 5:47 pmI believe it’s quite true. Atheists have always had to be more tolerant. They aren’t alone. Try being a Catholic in the south, not a cool thing!
I’m afraid not, flight.
If churches want to spread their message on every street corner I think it’s high time to reply in kind. Frankly, I’ve seen any number of religious messages that I would be happy to simply tear down. I find the whole “the only path to goodness is through these doors” that every Podunk congregation seems to have on the sign out front to be a personal affront against my morality and the morality of countless millions of unbelievers who live full, happy, productive, and even inspiring lives in the absence of silly superstition.
Actually, if I hadn’t given up on trying to deprogram Believers some decades ago? I would put up signs like, “Belief in the supernatural is a mental illness, get help!” or, “Religion=brainwashing. Unclench your mind” or, “People who think Jesus is going to destroy the world any day now should have no voice in planning a future they don’t Believe will happen”.
Come to think of it, I’m terribly fed up with dancing around the feelings of crippled children. I think we should express more contempt for dogmatic thinking whether it’s religious, political, or scientific.
Of course, in this case, that’s not an issue. The only message either contained or implied by this particular ad is that millions of people live without God and asks the question “do you Believe” without any value statement. Semantically it’s no more offensive than a Christian church having a sign that says “we Believe in Christ, do you?” on the door. And, frankly, anyone who would take offense at this particular ad deserves every bit of scorn and contempt the English language can convey.
October 24th, 2009 at 5:56 pm“Don’t make Me come down there.” – God
Or am I the only one who remembers the God Billboard Campaign? They were everywhere.
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/billboard.htm
October 24th, 2009 at 6:00 pmModeration says: “But [1]you are assuming that these sailors, for example, understood the curvature on a globe. They likely did not. [2]You are stating things that are obvious to a person who has been exposed to such, including geometry, for most of their life. The masses for most of human history did not have that luxury.”
AH HAH!
[1] Not from my impossibly tall mountain/treetop perspective! :D
I was actually trying to avoid the assumption you point out by writing;
“How this phenomenon was actually articulated to others or indeed to themselves is anyone’s guess–indeed the issue may never have been discussed at all, any more than the fact that water is wet.
I imagine early sailors didn’t necessarily need to formulate any theories about the horizon effect, all they needed to know was that it occurred, just like the sun rising and setting.”
That is to say…well for example. why should I bother to formulate theories about what the sun actually IS and how it does what it does? When it rises I can see better, as it travels across the sky I get a sense of time and I can infer my my direction regardless of the landscape,when it apparently disappears, it gets colder. How it all actually works at what it might imply is even less important to me as a modern man than perhaps it would be to someone 5000 years ago.
[2]I certainly didn’t mean to imply that the ‘average’ sailor would through intellectual effort construe the earth to be round, but by the same token neither might he construe it to be flat–he might not think about it all because he had no pressing reason to do so, and therefore might not argue one way or another, do you see? I think you’ve misconstrued my words.
But then that brings us to the issues of intellectual discipline and inquiry, of ‘common knowledge’, (whether factual or faith-based) and the distribution of information in old-timey times.
I’ve essentially posited that ancient experienced deep water sailors would probably ‘know’ that the world wasn’t flat, ergo it wouldn’t have been a universal concept.
BUT,
as the majority population would have lived inland and still does of course, and couldn’t travel very far, then it would be reasonable from their limited observations to assume that the world WAS fundamentally flat, so then I’d have to admit that that concept was predominant and therefore effectively absolute–any sailor who ‘knew’ otherwise probably wouldn’t have the vocabulary and intellectual capacity to be able to argue otherwise.
In addition of course it doesn’t seem all that likely that the extant intellectuals of the time and in a given place would be necessarily hobnobbing with sailors in pursuit of evidence to support their conjectures on the world’s geometry. It would also be true that advanced thought simply wasn’t accessible to the majority, and again, the majority rule supports the argument that world was indeed regarded as flat, by the majority and for a very long time.
I think what you and I are really arguing about now, are the definitions we are using to make our respective arguments about how we think the world was perceived. And if that’s the case then it just goes to show what a tricky subject this can be! :D
But it’s damned interesting to think about all the knowledge gained and knowledge lost over the course of recorded history, and to what uses such knowledge, or beliefs of course, have been put.
October 24th, 2009 at 6:38 pmThere is a problem with the sailing example. Namely, before the spread of the compass after the 10th century C.E. sailors rarely ventured out of the sight of land, with some notable exceptions so there wouldn’t really have been widespread observation of the phenomena. Only the most skilled, pre-compass, navigators would have been likely to spend much thought on it. Plus the Grecian theory of a spherical earth existed since, at least, the 4th century B.C.E. though it was not alone.
It’s a pity we don’t have records from the ancient Polynesians. They, if anyone, would seem likely to have had a pretty thorough understanding of the nature of the earth due to their successful navigation of vast distances while our European ancestors couldn’t manage much more than skirting the shores.
October 24th, 2009 at 6:48 pmpete @ 102,
The direction of my comment is aimed to the religious right.
If you are sick of the cherry picked designer religion, so is the Christian progress who watches the corruption of the Christian faith. Make no mistake, you take away critical thinking and all is lost. GW Bush is proof.
The ad in question is not offensive; Hannity’s diatribe concerning the ad is repugnant.
This was a non issue until Hannity cashed in. This is wrong.
I question the ads motivation. I assume the ad is generating the intended reaction, but to what end?
It appears to be a pointless exercise. If so where is the critical thinking.
October 24th, 2009 at 6:58 pmFrom what I can tell Sean Hannity won’t even make it the Pearly Gates at this point.
October 24th, 2009 at 7:41 pmAmen, brudda. I used to work at Wal-Mart 0734 in Enterprise, Alabama near Fort Rucker. (My father was a Sergeant in the Army). One day I was watching electronics on the overnight shift and some lady wanted a game for her boy. Being the friendly sort, I chatted them up as I got the game, mentioning that I preferred RPGs such as Final Fantasy. The mother said “We don’t allow those games in the house because we run a Christian household.” Taken aback at the insinuation, I said “Well Ma’am, we’re Catholic in my house.” (This was technically a lie. I’ve never been confirmed as a Catholic, never had Holy Communion, and have a deep seated hatred of the Church as a political body.) The mother tsked tsked me and said “Oooooooh. So you’re family is not saved…”
By then I was ready to choke the woman myself.
October 24th, 2009 at 7:42 pmA Proper TV Set, Which Promotes Balance and Goodness!
In the forefront, should be a populated cat box; several different-coloured species of felines should equally, represent the diversity of regional, predatory fauna;
Prominently, posters should boast guarantees against numb scalps, numb nasal hairs, depleted cash reserves, burning eyes, semi-straightened hair, and in favor of strawberry shampoo;
Incentives to collect viles full of horse sweat, should be accompanied by maps of local horse-riding paths, and include various galloping, cantoring, or trotting regulations;
Most importantly, a rustic pictorial sunset scene of the peaceful hillside gathering of fifty robed flamen of Gods: Jupiter, Mars, and Quinnus, should frame a safe evening.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:03 pmflight.
I misconstrued you as claiming that this ad was offensive. I stand corrected.
The purpose of such ads, as I see it, is to simply inform and provoke a simple thought. “Do you Believe and, if so, why?” This one does so in as neutral a tone as possible and is really a admirable example of minimalism. It’s probably useless, and like I said I would personally risk offending people if I were to make such an effort, but this one might be the least silly I’ve seen. I’ll wait for responses from more sane people than Inshannity before I will proclaim it “brilliant”.
There is, of course, the chance that some lost soul, perhaps someone who’s been shunned because of their rejection of their families religion, might get a little encouragement and hope. It would take very few such successes to justify the campaign.
And while I don’t presume to speak for others, I think it’s quite common that people who are contemptuous of religion decry the real human suffering that is caused by exclusionary and xenophobic philosophies that comprise the worst of many if not all religions.
But the real culprit, the heart of the matter, is the usually harmless Belief that Something/someone is there despite all evidence to the contrary. Usually harmless because most rational people don’t take it to the point where they actually let their Belief cloud their own senses and real-world events. But the one’s who really cling to the Belief, the one’s who have convinced themselves that 2+2 really equals 5, are dangerous.
October 24th, 2009 at 8:17 pmpete says: “There is a problem with the sailing example…”
Good to see you (as usual) pete!
Now, why I am being so easily misconstrued, after I worked my brain to the bone typing stuff?
Moderation said “Those passages (from Matthew) are only possible if the world were flat.”
I pointed out that basic geometry does not support his argument.
He might have said “those passages allowed, absent a grasp of basic geometry, the conclusion that the world was flat”. but such a conclusion isn’t drawn by the bible, it’s only been posited after the bible was written and presumably after it was translated.
As I said, the ancient Greeks (the smart ones anyway)had figured out the world was round, not flat, BEFORE the bible was written, ergo, not EVERYONE believed the world was flat.
Now, whilst the authors of the Bible probably didn’t know anything about geometry and had no direct experience of the horizon phenomena that can be seen whilst at sea, they may well have thought that the world WAS flat.
BUT they didn’t actually say so, and if the bible was the reference of global knowledge in the area at the time and as the actual geometry of the earth isn’t mentioned (in Matthew anyway) then there’s no reason to suppose that ANYONE in the region thought about the shape of the earth at all, or if they did apparently it wasn’t mentioning. ergo no evidence of what shape they actually thought the earth was, flat or round or banana shaped.
And then I argue that if ANYONE without the ability to articulate geometric concepts nonetheless DIDN’t believe the world was flat, it would probably have been sailore who could observe the horizon affect. They still might not have been able to describe the world as round, but they’d know it wasn‘t flat.
As to early sailors not seeing the horizon effect because they kept land in sight all the time, that’s a modern assumption too. You can still keep land in sight “over the horizon” if the land is high enough to project above the horizon line which is a fixed 3 miles at sea level.
Current, wind and bad weather could sweep a boat out of sight of land despite sailors best efforts, so if they survived that, and every time they survived that they’d see the horizon effect.
Again, sailors probably wouldn’t formulate a concept that the world was actually round because precisely because they;d usually stay close to shore, but they’s surely grasp that the sea curved, and it doesn’t take much sophistication to then appreciate that the earth might curve too, ergo NOT FLAT.
Frankly its possible the whole thing was a non-issue–things were as they were and the world was ‘local’–land was flat, the sea curved, they were both different and not necessarily part of a whole.
If anything the earth could have been perceived as a level plateau of land surrounded by the seas on a slope–because water observably eventually rolls downhill.
It may that the issue came up when some bright spark began wondering about it. When the Greeks like Eratosthenes (and , You-rippa-dese, Bendattheknees and George Stephanopolus) figured out the geometry and scale of the world by a combination of indirect and direct observation and abstract calculus, even the well-informed and educated elite must have had a hard time grasping it. After all why didn’t everyone just fall off? Geometry could answer that, ergo the globe concept was incomplete and thus easily argued against.
The amazing thing is that the idea of a round earth continued to be subject to skepticism for so long. You might remember the press (I certainly do)heralding the photos of Earth from Apollo 8 as proof positive that the world was indeed round, though it had been proven many times over already. Apparently some reporters felt the need to make the point.
Of course with that issue settled, the ‘moronosphere’ moved on to disbelieving the moon landings, and of course evolution and indeed science itself is still being contested by some ( even though the moronosphere relies on science to live, go to work and complain about the falsity of science via computers and magic talking picture boxes.
Okay I’m done with this now. Its been fun. Cheers all! D
October 24th, 2009 at 8:28 pmcorrection; “Geometry couldn’t answer that,”
October 24th, 2009 at 8:30 pmpete @ 110
You have expressed well, and in every respect I agree. The self appointed prophets and teachers in designer Christianity have caused such distress I can understand walking away from the entire concept of religion. I have been so close myself.
A wonderful woman planted this thought in my head many years ago. The true lesson to be learned with “any religion” is harmony. There is nothing to fear. This is life’s basic lesson. It doesn’t matter how you arrive.
When I see people perpetuating disharmony, it strikes me contrary to how a person should mature. What has been occurring with the religious right strikes as juvenile trivia, with no tangible purpose other than creating an exclusive club of fear. The religious ads are a perpetuation of this mentality.
The curiosity I have is what motivated this ad. I am hoping the atheists are not falling into the same hopeless trap as the religious right.
I am a Christian, and I can tell you that Darwin’s theory of evolution is glorious. I see no contradiction between his theory and the book of Genesis. They belong on different stages but they are in harmony; a look at how He did it. In my view of Christianity there is no reason or room to differentiate between faith and reality. One fills in where the other leaves off. Again, all in harmony.
Thanks, flight
October 24th, 2009 at 9:41 pmWow, a FOX bobble head frothing at the mouth over something without knowing all of the facts first!?!
October 24th, 2009 at 9:53 pm“A million New Yorkers are good without God. Are you?”
Why am I reminded of the phrase “fifty million elvis fans can’t be wrong”?
Oh right because they function on the same “logic”.
October 24th, 2009 at 10:22 pmHannity is a moron
October 24th, 2009 at 10:47 pmand the beat goes on…
Tiff over White House camera crew and Fox
The Associated Press – David Bauder – ?Oct 23, 2009?
NEW YORK – The Obama administration allowed a Fox News Channel reporter to interview Treasury Department “pay czar” Kenneth Feinberg after other network news executives said they wouldn’t use a pool arrangement to speak to him unless Fox was included.
Are you a Fox News believer? part III Examiner.com
Fox News vs. The White House True/Slant
Jamestown Sun – Huffington Post (blog) – Boston Herald – Media Matters for America – Wikipedia: 2009 White House criticism of Fox News
all 113 news articles »
me thinks the w.h. needs to set this record straight…
October 25th, 2009 at 12:20 amI don’t recall exactly where, but there is a biblical reference to the four corners of the world.
October 25th, 2009 at 2:03 amI long ago found my spiritual resolve by adding an “o”
to traditional man-made deities.
Serving “Good” by positive consideration of all living things
October 25th, 2009 at 5:41 amilluminates the path of rightousness.
Our free will of determining our choices on that path
is the celebration of our humanity.
Pete and flight,
October 25th, 2009 at 11:27 amThis is probably hopelessly late for you to see this, but in my town the sign (which are on our municipal buses – a fact that caused a kerfluffle here) say: “If you do not believe in God, you are not alone.” And it gives the URL of a local atheist/freethinkers group. I believe this message is helpful to atheists who are constantly being barraged with the message that this is a Christian nation – no others need apply.
“atheist/freethinkers group.”
Ever notice just how self righteous the phrase freethinkers is?
I would hardly call the thinking of Doctor King enslaved.
October 25th, 2009 at 12:45 pmChat Odalari
October 25th, 2009 at 5:37 pmChat Sayfalari
cet
Chat
Sohbet
mirc
mirc indir
mirc chat
mirc download
Sohbet
Sohbet odasi
Sohbet odalari
Sohbet odasi
mirc indir
türkce mirc indir
Here’s why more and more of us say enough:
October 25th, 2009 at 6:45 pmhttp://img399.imageshack.us/img399/3158/2965810215ab26449ebfbf6.jpg
“atheist/freethinkers group.”
Ever notice just how self righteous the phrase freethinkers is?
I would hardly call the thinking of Doctor King enslaved.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:19 am“I would hardly call the thinking of Doctor King enslaved.”
October 26th, 2009 at 6:36 am24/7 under God’s surveillance is hardly freedom either.
I think if I had to choose between speaking to Hannity or talking to a rock, I’d choose the rock.
Hannity is an EXTREMELY well paid corporate tool, nothing more. His ideology is tied to how much money he’s paid. If a liberal station paid him more the Faux News, he’d be a liberal. His religion is $$.
October 26th, 2009 at 9:43 amModeration says:
5th Estate says:
Also, I can;t think of any part of the Bible that describes the world as flat–do you know of any?
Actually…Yes, there are.
In Daniel 4:10-11, Daniel described seeing, “a tree of great height at the centre of the earth…reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth’s farthest bounds.” In Matthew, the devil himself “took [Matthew]him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory.”
Those passages are only possible if the world were flat.
.
.
.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
These scripture would also be tree if they were metaphorical, in the case of Daniel, or if they were speaking of a spiritual realm, in the case of Matthew.
October 26th, 2009 at 1:17 pmflight says:
.
.
.
I am a Christian, and I can tell you that Darwin’s theory of evolution is glorious. I see no contradiction between his theory and the book of Genesis. They belong on different stages but they are in harmony; a look at how He did it. In my view of Christianity there is no reason or room to differentiate between faith and reality. One fills in where the other leaves off. Again, all in harmony.
Thanks, flight
October 24th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Darwin’s theory is, and remains, a theory. One that faces more and more challenges, but that is the purpose of a theory: to be the best description of what is observed until there is a better description of what is observed.
bit believes the theory exists only as an intellectual excuse to not believe in God.
Otherwise, what good is the theory of evolution?
October 26th, 2009 at 1:26 pmDarwin’s theory faces fewer and fewer challenges in explaining the fact of evolution.
The theory isn’t there to avoid believing a god is involved. It adds to the rational set of theories that explain the universe and our place in it. These theories make use of facts we can now see and measure that were impossible only 100 years ago. Religion has outlived its usefulness in explaining these things. Religions are just just myths we used to anchor ourselves in the universe. The truth is much grander and requires no god.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:06 pm@#83, That’s one of the problems that I have with “Christians” like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson; they will defend capitalism, saying “God ordained free markets”, but yet they won’t do a whole lot to help the unemployed here, other than by telling them that “it’s their own fault that they don’t have a job; they were too lazy”.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:41 pmIt should be remembered that good science entails always questioning things. A good scientist works to disprove his theory and has doubts in the results. If you do that with the Christian church, you get labelled a heretic and devil worshipper.
Christians fear evolution because if the world was created through natural processes than that means their god isn’t omnipotent.
I also invoke the Babel Fish principal from The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:29 am