Harman: ‘I am not one who is enthusiastic’ about sending more U.S. troops to Afghanistan.
Harman: ‘I am not one who is enthusiastic’ about sending more U.S. troops to Afghanistan.
Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) recently made news when she told an audience at the Brookings Institution that any further troop increases in Afghanistan “wouldn’t be well received” on Capitol Hill. During an interview with Harman earlier today, ThinkProgress asked her to elaborate on her views:
I have been focused on this issue, and I am not one who is enthusiastic about adding U.S. troops. I don’t think that is going to fix the problem. I think what’s going to fix the problem is a massive effort by us, when we have leverage, which is right now, to fix the corruption problem in the government. It’s the corruption, stupid. If we just let Karzai operate going forward with a system of cronies I think that is a guarantee that the population of Afghanistan won’t support its own government and will move increasingly to the Taliban. So, that’s against our interest. So, we ought to eliminate the corruption there and set up a system where Afghans want to fight for their own country over time.
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Pardon my French but…duh.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:03 pmHarman:
“So, we ought to eliminate the corruption there and set up a system where Afghans want to fight for their own country over time.”
Good luck with that.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:08 pmWe can’t deal with corruption in this country.
Time to fold up the tents and come home. Thanks to the shrub we wasted trillions for absolutely no reason….quit smiling Halliburton.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:09 pmCan anyone name a government or regime the US supported that wasn’t corrupt? As in hadn’t sold their souls to the US dollar and ignored their people?
October 27th, 2009 at 8:12 pmUnder George Bush for 8 years, corruption was all the rage in the US, Afghanistan and Iraq. And what did he do to combat it? Starting with the Enron collapse….absolutely nothing. He dithered.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:13 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Mr.Duke says:
——————————————————————————–
Obama=LBJ
October 27th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Bush = Dogshit
October 27th, 2009 at 8:20 pmMr.Duke says:
Obama=LBJ
For a bit of barf, that is pretty much a compliment. LBJ gave use Medicare.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:20 pmI wonder if Duke is one of those dipshits that thought we could have “won” in Vietnam. Of course like most repugs he would have nothing to do with the actual combat.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:23 pmgood evening mr. puke,
October 27th, 2009 at 8:23 pmriddle me this:
do you support the united states backing a corrupt government which clearly rigged the elections and if so, why do you lack faith in the democratic system?
Mr.Duke at 8:14 pm
“Obama=LBJ”
LBJ=Medicare
Obama=Medicare Part E
Yeah, I can live with that!
October 27th, 2009 at 8:23 pmGMAFB
Corruption?
Check out what the repugs are doing and have done.
GOYHH
October 27th, 2009 at 8:25 pmWe need to get the hell out of Afghanistan — the sooner, the better.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:26 pmHoodathunk at 8:20 pm
Faster fingers…I can live with that too! :)
October 27th, 2009 at 8:29 pmI have been focused on this issue, and I am not one who is enthusiastic about adding U.S. troops. I don’t think that is going to fix the problem.
Boy Jane , that’s simply brilliant ; where was that bit of deep-thinkin when you voted “FOR” Bush’s Idiotic Iraq Adventure ?????
October 27th, 2009 at 8:30 pmHarman: ‘I am not one who is enthusiastic’ about sending more U.S. troops to Afghanistan.
– - Jane, I do believe you enjoy the feeling you get with your legs straddling that fence.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:39 pmAfghanistan, the graveyard of empires.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:41 pmThe rest of the world laughs at us because we want to eliminate corruption in other governments, while a bought and paid for Liberman threatens to fillibuster health care insurance reform. I am embarassed by my government.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:42 pmWhile I agree fully that the legitimacy of the Karzai election is seriously in doubt and placing the legitimacy of the government in doubt,
The argument that a stolen election staffed by unqualified cronies sounds rather like the USA 2001-2008.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:43 pmAfghanistan = Vietnam Redux.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:43 pmThe rest of the world laughs at us because we want to eliminate corruption in other governments,
Sorry, Levi but we don’t want to eliminate corruption. Never have. We just want the corruption to be friendly to us. Sort of a like to like thing.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:47 pmI stand corrected
October 27th, 2009 at 8:47 pmBy the Pentagon’s formula, you need 600,000 troops to control a country of that size and population. And because of the terrain and tribal system, I think Afghanistan would be more difficult.
Sen. Kerry was on tv yesterday saying that we could do it by building up the Afghan government’s forces. I thought he would remember that’s what Nixon said about Vietnam. We didn’t build up Iraq’s forces very much—we just put 100,000 insurgent evil-doers on our payroll. I don’t think that could be done in Afghanistan. They already have all the money they need from the poppy trade.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:07 pmOver 8 years in Iraq and Afghanistan and nothing has been solved. The mightiest military power has shot its wad and there is no difference there other than US lives are being lost in addition to the locals.
Time to come home.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:15 pmWe went into Afghanistan to fix corruption? I recall the rational then was because women were mistreated and made to wearl burkas. Oh, and the Al Qaeda training bases.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:23 pmIMHO, we on the left have been the victim of poor framing by letting the right wing frame the issues in Afghanistan and Iraq.
First, we need to disabuse ourselves of the idea that we are in “a war on Terrorism.” It’s that word “war.” When you use the word “war” and you’re talking about bad people (not a bad situation, like poverty) it’s natural to want to believe that the solution must involve thousands of military troops. Nothing could be more wrong. In the worldwide clampdown against the use of terrorism, where have most of the successes come? From good old fashioned police work, that’s where. This is not an issue with a big military solution.
I believe that the best approach to fighting the terrorists is not with more troops, but with fewer troops. Instead of huge armies going after the terrorists, we should fight them with smaller commando-style units (Delta Forces, Navy SEALS, take your pick).
As for Iraq, we have let the right frame the issue as “How long will our troops have to stay in Iraq?” This is wrong. Though many of us knew the justifications for launching that invasion were bogus, and that Iraq never posed a threat to the United States, too many people think that we have to keep our troops there “until the job is done.” The problem is that no one seems to know what that job is or when it will be done.
But if you recognize the FACT that there was never any justification for going into Iraq in the first place, it should become clear that the issue should be framed as “How quickly can we get our troops out of Iraq?” The more people we can convince that we never had any valid reason to invade Iraq in the first place, the more support there will be from the public to get our troops out of there and safely home as quickly as possible.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:23 pmEnough is enough. The Government of Afghanistan is corrupt, funded by Herion, and the Afghans have no infrastructure or services for their people. I do not want to send our brave men and women into the meatgrinder. Obama was given this mess because of the Bush Administrations incompetance. How convienant. Now Dick and George can run around either doing motovaion speeches or spreading doom. WTF?
October 27th, 2009 at 9:39 pmWhy do we think we can succeed when so many others have failed? Jesus, even Alexander couldn’t tame this region. We had a shot, but Bush and Cheney pissed it away. Damn, I need a drink.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:42 pmWe have been in Afghanistan for 8 long years. It has been a series of mistakes, starting with the decision to rotate troops from Afghanistan for a build-up to invade Iraq — which was a major contributor to bin Laden being able to escape from Tora Bora.
Suddenly we have the proponent of that failed policy concerned about dithering. The other thing I am hearing neither from Cheney nor Gen. McChrystal is what the exit strategy is. It seems rather prudent to perform studies on what is likely to happen with, say, 10,000 more troops, 40,000 more and 60,000 more. The other thing with the 2 higher numbers is where do we get these troops from? More stop loss orders — and what about the impact on moral that has. Harmon is right to question the decision rather than being a rubber stamp as Congress has been before.
Likewise, we have to factor in next months run-off election and how fraud and corrupt that might be. My fear is that the good General is still locked in on the old “clear, hold, build” strategy that is constantly mired down in “clear”. We have had 8 years to get results so I guess the thinking is that doubling down will get double the results. The only problem is that zero squared is still zero. Yes, some will say the “surge” worked in Iraq but it didn’t start to work until al Sadr declared a unilateral cease-fire. I hardly thing the Taliban will declare a unilateral cease-fire in Afghanistan. We are faced with ugly and more ugly. Now that is ugly. That is Dick Cheney’s legacy. He needs to live with it.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:44 pmWe cannot win in Afganistan. Its that simple IMHO. Throwing more Troops in there is akin to feeding them into a meat grinder. Nothing is going to happen which is going to change the current situation. The Tribes control the Country, not Hamid Karzi and certainly not us or NATO.
Support the Troops. BRING THEM HOME!!
October 27th, 2009 at 9:48 pmWell, they dont call it the golden crescent because of the areas honesty.
We have a much bigger and corrupt problem on our southern border.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:49 pmThe fundamental problem is we went to Afghanistan to fight a war on terror. Unfortunately, terror is not something that you can declare a war on. Terrorism is a tactic. Declaring a war on terrorism would be similar to declaring a war on retreat or flanking, utterly meaningless.
Our troops are dying for a Republican propaganda slogan. Bring them home.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:51 pmAfghan heroin production increased during the same time frame, with a notable decrease in 2001 allegedly as a result of the Taliban’s fatwa against heroin production.[1] Afghanistan now produces over 90% of the world’s opium.[1]
October 27th, 2009 at 9:51 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Crescent
Rachel Maddow just mentioned a story that Karzai’s brother has been on the CIA payroll for (surprise) 8 years. Yeesh! BushCo and the Repubs couldn’t be bothered spending money to properly equip our troops, but boy howdy, could they throw it away on useless POSs like Karzai, Chalabi and Musharef! (sp?)
October 27th, 2009 at 9:54 pmJane@34, I saw that. Unreal. Our brave troops get contaimated water and electrocuted. While these guys live it up. NOW I really need a drink!
October 27th, 2009 at 10:05 pmJane, You beat me to it – the NYTimes is reporting:
October 27th, 2009 at 10:12 pmAhmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the Afghan president and a suspected player in the country’s booming illegal opium trade, gets regular payments from the Central Intelligence Agency, and has for much of the past eight years, according to current and former American officials.
This latest Karzai brothers story is part of the reason for delay in deciding our strategy in Afghanistan.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:14 pmWell said! Thank you, Rep Harman!
October 27th, 2009 at 10:21 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
P.D., I don’t drink much anymore, so I guess I’ll have to ask my doctor to up the dosage on my antidepressants instead. :(
Marie, I hope that part of the delay is because Obama is stopping these payments. I wonder what other relatives of foreign ‘leaders’ are on the CIA payroll?
October 27th, 2009 at 10:24 pmBeefeater, I assume you’re addressing Ms. Harman, not me.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:26 pmThere are no attractive alternatives in Afghanistan. The whole nature of the area, and the awkward size of our force, even make a withdrawal nearly impossible. Every soldier there is, virtually, cut off and pinned down. Regardless of what we do it’s likely to turn into a retreat under fire. And the fact is that our forces are too big to simply evacuate and too small to avoid being overrun in a full revolt.
The problem with that is that it would take our entire transport system to get them out quick and that would leave our troops in Iraq cut off and pinned down.
Escalation on any scale leaves a bitter taste but, the sad fact is that, without more troops, it’s likely that the Taliban will slowly surround and infiltrate and continue the war of attrition. On the other hand, how many more troops can we equip and deploy?
That leaves very few options. We could do a unannounced “stealth withdrawal”. We could try sneaking a platoon or so on every “empty” transport heading out and hope we can get the number down before anyone notices and decides to overrun the remnants. Not very likely.
We could withdraw to large “safe” bases and see what happens. We could, perhaps, then evacuate one pocket at a time. But then again, if they are committed, they could easily gather the force to attack even a large base.
And, no matter how we do it, it’s still likely that the last few will have to fight their way out and we’ll probably leave enough heavy weapons to destabilize the area long into the future.
The one wild card that could get our ass out of the sling would be a joint effort between us, whoever is ruling Afghanistan at the end of the month, and Pakistan to really cooperate. That way a stable zone could be created along the areas of the boarder where Pakistan is in control on their side, have them cover the back door, and support Afghan forces as they work their way out. The whole weakness of this plan being securing the cooperation of both Pakistan’s and Afghanistan’s government and it would still be long, bloody, and expensive.
Like I said. No good choices.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:26 pm“set up a system where Afghans want to fight for their own country over time.”
Shoot hon, the Afghans have demonstrated a willingness to fight for their own country over a longer period of time than ours has existed. Fight to keep a corrupt central government in power, fight to support what must appear to many of them as an invading power supporting that corrupt government, fight with so-called friends who’ve supported and abandoned them at least twice? Eh, not so much.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:30 pmfor balance I would have bolded us and years. I just think that carries the line better.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:31 pmYo! Hold Up!
October 27th, 2009 at 10:33 pmJane’s right…
Which Jane, db?
I’d better get out of here before I get too confused. Goodnight!
October 27th, 2009 at 10:37 pmYes pete, no good choices. I fear the image of the good people who have worked with us clamoring to get on the last chopper out. When my husband first went there the Afghans he worked with were eager to improve their infrastructure and asked “Can you help us get computers?”. The last time he went the question was “Can you help us get visas?”.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:37 pmA former Marine Corps captain with combat experience in Iraq, Hoh had also served in uniform at the Pentagon, and as a civilian in Iraq and at the State Department. By July, he was the senior U.S. civilian in Zabul province, a Taliban hotbed.
But last month, in a move that has sent ripples all the way to the White House, Hoh, 36, became the first U.S. official known to resign in protest over the Afghan war, which he had come to believe simply fueled the insurgency.
“I have lost understanding of and confidence in the strategic purposes of the United States’ presence in Afghanistan,” he wrote Sept. 10 in a four-page letter to the department’s head of personnel. “I have doubts and reservations about our current strategy and planned future strategy, but my resignation is based not upon how we are pursuing this war, but why and to what end.”
October 27th, 2009 at 10:37 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/26/AR2009102603394_pf.html
Another Beck disciple turned murderer:
October 27th, 2009 at 10:50 pmA man stabbed and bludgeoned his sister and her husband to death in El Cerrito in 2006 because he thought the couple were too liberal, were raising their children wrong and because they hadn’t invited him over for Christmas, a prosecutor told jurors Tuesday.
Obama got this mess dumped on his lap. Either way, he loses. He can get support of the Repugs by staying. And get the fury of the the Progressives and the Dems if he stays the course. The situation is a no winner all the way.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:50 pmWhich Jane, db?
–
October 27th, 2009 at 10:50 pmYou.
Not much to add but not everyone we’re fighting there are Taliban. Many are just plain old insurgents trying to purge their country of foreign invaders. Many are surely pissed-off due to innocent family and friends being killed. As was pointed out it is the perfect definition of a military quagmire. Get out any way we can and call it BushCos’ loss.
It gets worse by the day
October 27th, 2009 at 11:41 pmEncouraging moderate elements, many of which have no connection to the Taliban, to put down their arms, is a full pass for the Taliban workerbee?
Your logic fails me.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:21 amWe have no purpose in Afgan.
chimpy killed Hussien instead of capturing a dialysis bin Laden. The fool told us bin Laden isn’t on his mind, after he did absolutely nothing but protect bin Laden.
So what’s the purpose? Why is it so important to build a US back nation? This will lead to a permanent presence in a country that isn’t our problem. It has been proven that our presence doesn’t deter terrorism. Nothing does. Terrorist are nomads who can set up shop anywhere.
chimpy’s “War on Terror” is just as ignorant as he is. He would have been better off if he started a “War on Hurricanes.” It makes just as much sense.
I believe chimpy put into place a fake war (afgan) to get Hussein, like he promised his daddy.
Harman, until you have the facts you should Just STFU. You should know more than the average citizen about the “war.”
October 28th, 2009 at 4:36 amP.D. says:
Obama got this mess dumped on his lap. Either way, he loses. He can get support of the Repugs by staying. And get the fury of the the Progressives and the Dems if he stays the course. The situation is a no winner all the way.
President Obama won’t be the blame it’s still a repug leftover just like the bad economy, failed infrastructure, failed wall st, greedy big businesses and millions of sick and dying people in the US.
War is like marriage, easy to do, but hard to get out.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:06 amAren’t the taliban the same taliban that ronnie raygun gave a full pass to, armed to the teeth, and called them “freedom fighters” just a couple of decades ago?
October 28th, 2009 at 5:54 amand the answer is, yes,yes and yes workerbee
October 28th, 2009 at 5:54 amWhat the f uck is a “full pass” workerbee?
October 28th, 2009 at 5:59 amI’ll never forget the day Hamid Karzai came out sporting his new look as the leader of Afghanistan. Cringe worthy because Mr. Unocal Oil Pig was trying to make himself look like an “authentic Afghan leader”, when really, he’s connected to Dick Cheney and his Pigs!
Time to leave Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden has been dead for years. Al-Qaida is on Dick Cheney’s payroll.
We’ve been duped for toooooooooooooooo long! The End.
October 28th, 2009 at 7:05 amBozo the Clown, here’s Reagan meeting with his best buddies (and George H.W. Bush’s best buddies too!) the Taliban back in the 80’s at the White House:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/pressclips/reagan-taliban399-thumb.jpg
October 28th, 2009 at 7:07 ampete,
What if we take our troops out of Iraq first (where they have no business being in the first place) and have them swing through Afghanistan (in large numbers) on the way home and pick up our troops there?
October 28th, 2009 at 8:04 amIf we leave, men die. If we stay, more men die. From where I am sitting, we should leave now to minimize losses.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:30 amOT
I haven’t got all the details. The NAACP is having some sort of event and invited Rev. Wright to speak.
Get this, some repugs are calling on a boycott because Rev. Wright is a racist.
Can you believe the gall the repug have?
October 28th, 2009 at 8:32 amI’m way behind on this story, but this line caught my interest; So, that’s against our interest.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:55 amWhen did Afghanistan become about our interests and not theirs? Maybe I’m just naive and it never was about them, but I thought I’d ask.
When did Afghanistan become about our interests and not theirs? Maybe I’m just naive and it never was about them, but I thought I’d ask.
I call that a weasel word. It could mean spreading democracy or world peace and if you pressed Harman thats what she would probably say it meant, but I would guess its a reference to exceptionalism.
October 28th, 2009 at 9:16 amIt’s easy to claim Karsai a bought and sold pol. But Jane ought to look in the smokey mirror. Here is a women who votes in the US Congress just as the Israelis whould have her. I’d love to see what passed under her table. Migtht you call her a spy? An agent of foreign intrests?
October 28th, 2009 at 10:18 amJane, we all know Karsai is your clone.
End the criminal, illegal U. S. occupation of the Republic of Afghanistan. The Afghan people never attacked us. We were attacked by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and fifteen Saudi dupes on nine-eleven.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:43 pmWhen asked if she was still in contact with Israeli spies, Ms. Harman responded, “Why not?”
October 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pmworkerbee says:
Aren’t the taliban, the ones that just bombed the un building, the same taliban that obama gave a full pass to just a couple weeks ago?
Ah patsy, the “taliban” is what you and your 9-12 buddies are called. You actually bombed the FBI building in “OK”, the Olympics, gay bars, liberal churches and a bunch of health clinics… Which the GOP has managed to ensure you’ve been given a “full pass” on your domestic terrorism…
Oh, and you also supported the Afghan Taliban as long as they were your buddies killing “commies”…
October 28th, 2009 at 9:58 pm