Lieberman Lies To Justify Health Care Filibustering: The Public Option Will Raise Premiums And Increase The Debt
Lieberman Lies To Justify Health Care Filibustering: The Public Option Will Raise Premiums And Increase The Debt
This afternoon, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) appeared on Fox News to defend his intention to filibuster any health care reform bill that includes a national public option. Lieberman argued that a public plan would “stifle” the economic recovery and increase “the debt.” “It’s just unnecessary,” Lieberman said. The public option is “a new entitlement program and the taxpayers and the premium-payers are going to end up paying for it, or else the debt will go higher.”
Responding to proponents of the public plan who argue that it would actually lower costs, Lieberman insisted that if the public option paid lower reimbursement rates than private insurers, medical providers would shift costs to Americans with private coverage:
LIEBERMAN: If the public option, the government run health insurance company negotiates hard to lower the reimbursement — the money it’s paying to hospitals, doctors — they’re [providers] going to have to get that money somewhere. And where they’re going to get it is from the 200 million Americans who today have private health insurance. Premiums will go up. It’s exactly what’s happened with Medicare and Medicaid. [...]
When people hear public option, I think they think it’s for free. It’s not for free. Somebody is going to have to pay for it and you can bet it’s going to be the taxpayers and the people who pay health insurance premiums now.
Watch it:
Contrary to Lieberman’s claims, the public option envisioned by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) would be required to compete on a level playing field with private insurers and charge premiums “in an amount sufficient to cover expected costs.” Instead of stifling the “economic recovery” and increasing “the debt,” the Congressional Budget Office concluded that the self-sustaining public option (similar to the one envisioned by Reid) could actually save the government money and slightly lower premiums.
Like Lieberman, America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) — the insurance industry’s lobby — and the Business Roundtable have also argued that a public option that reimburses providers at lower rates than private payers would force providers to raise costs for Americans with private coverage in order to make-up the difference. MedPAC, the Congressional Budget Office, and numerous actuarial studies dispute the insurers’ claims.
These critics confuse cost shifts with price differentials. Economists point out that “price differentials are not necessarily the recouping of losses from one payer by overcharging another”; providers often “charge different prices to different market segments” to maximize profits, not to shift costs. MedPAC has concluded that “hospitals that are forced to run efficiently are adequately funded by Medicare payments. Therefore, increasing Medicare reimbursements to hospitals would not reduce rates providers charge to private insurers.” The research suggests that hospitals “are raising prices when they have the market power to do so,” not because they are reimbursed at Medicare rates.
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Don’t let Lieberman filibuster!
He’ll bore the world to death!
October 28th, 2009 at 2:43 pmBut the perpetual war you advocate (and worship) will bring down our debt?
Your hypocrisy results in death, you immoral POS.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:44 pmWhat a fu(king assh*le.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:45 pmLieberman appearing on Fox. What a surprise.
Oh, and by the way, Joe:
“You lie”.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:45 pmLieberman is a political windsock with the same credibility (or lack thereof) as Michael “I’m a tool” Steele.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:46 pmHe also voted for the AIG bailout, didn’t he?
Corporate wh0re.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:47 pmTalk about greenhouse gas emisssion.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:48 pmOctober 28th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
It’s OK; it’s just Joe weaseling around on behalf of his clients. Yesterday or day before, he was wrapping himself in the flag, claiming he would be doing it for the good of the country.
That I after his name, when you see J. Liebermann (I-Conn), means “Inside man”; he’s the inside man in the insurance lobbying team for the Connecticutt Majors. There are a few other lobbyists who’ve managed to get themselves elected, but most of them have kept their political party cover, if Democrats, or are members of the Lobbyist Party, aka the Republipimps.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:52 pmIt’s not for free.
Yes, Joe. The OPTION for members of the PUBLIC to pay the government for health insurance is not free. That’s what the word “pay” means.
Can nobody in Congress just stand up and point out that the people arguing against the public option simply do not understand any of the issues being debated and that their opinions are, therefore, worthless?
October 28th, 2009 at 2:57 pmCrikey! Lieberman does look like Droopy Dawg.
How many insurance companies are based in Connecticut and how much payola has Joe taken from them?
Probably a whole lotta dough in black bags hidden in Joe’s closet(s).
“I’m firm but I’m fair.” Joe Cortez
October 28th, 2009 at 2:59 pmbig surprise. old two-faced joe on faux “news” pandering to repukelicans because without their vote here in connecticut, he clearly would no longer be a senator. remind me again why he hasn’t been stripped of his leadership position earned when he was a democrat?
October 28th, 2009 at 3:01 pmPity that ol’ Droopy didn’t think about the debt when he beat the drum for Chimpy’s elective wars.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:02 pmHave we humored Lieberman enough now ?
Let’s face it, he lost as a dem and ran as an independent.
He’ll dance with whoever pays him.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:02 pmAt one point Joe was likable to the point that Gore asked him to be VP.
WTF happend to Joe?
October 28th, 2009 at 3:05 pmAnother Medicare recipient againt real health insurance reform for the rest of us…who knew?
Call your Democratic senators and call Lieberman’s office and demand his expulsion from the Democratic caucus if he stops this vote, prevents its passage, or weakens the legislation. There is no question that our activism has had profound positive impact on reform and we can bring pressure to bear against the recalcitrant independent senator from Connecticut.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:08 pmI caught Lieberman earlier today on FOX, was blabbering something to the effect that “taxpayers” will end up paying for the health care bill & crap like that.. so whoTF does this stupid jerk think pays for his health care?????
man, these right-wingers.. in addition to being hypocritical and mean-spirited they are stupid….
2nd comment is absolutely right: right-wingers never have a problem with the debt as long as it’s being used to pay for wars….
October 28th, 2009 at 3:12 pmJoe Lieberman (R-Israel) says, “When people hear public option, I think they think it’s for free. It’s not for free.”
A government run health care system isn’t free but it will cost 50% less than health care from insurance companies and the quality of care will actually improve (see Germany, France, Israel, Norway, Canada, Japan, France, England, Austria, Ireland, etc, etc…).
October 28th, 2009 at 3:13 pmgully foyle says:
How many insurance companies are based in Connecticut
Hartford, CT, is nicknamed “The Insurance Capital of the World.” Does that help? :)
Bozo The Neoclown says:
remind me again why he hasn’t been stripped of his leadership position earned when he was a democrat?
Because he would immediately join, if not simply caucus with, the Republican Party, thus giving them 41 reliable votes to block any and everything the Democrats try to do.
BTW, Sen Lieberman. I’d like to see you go on Rachel Maddow’s show and defend your actions. Just make sure you get your facts right because she’s a lot smarter than you, and she won’t let you get away with lying the way Fox News Channel does.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:14 pmPremiums won’t decrease if there’s not a public option. The argument that premiums will increase with a public option is saying that the ‘free market’ doesn’t work. Premiums will increase with or without a public option, so we might as well get a public option.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:15 pmLIEberman the LIAR
-#1 Those people who would be insured by the public option are people who presently don’t have insurance, so the insurance companies are not losing out on customers they did not already have.
-#2 Doctors and hospitals are not treating the small percentage of uninsured patients now, so exactly how is treating the 5% or so in addition going to put them out of business, it is business they did not have before anyway.
And why are the MSM so stupid as to NOT POINT THIS OUT?
October 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pmJust look where he went to push his lies. To a network that the WH has clearly stated is not a news network. B@$t@rD.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pmDidnt all the insurance company’s more or less have all ready said they are raising premiums no matter what is pass?
October 28th, 2009 at 3:21 pmLIEberman (R-Aetna) is a baggy old whore selling himself to the highest bidder.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:24 pmTime to give up YOUR public option then, Joe — no more Congressional health care plan, and no more Medicare, for you.
I said it last night, and I’ll say it again: screw Joe Loserman. Let him enjoy his little attention-grabbing power play — and then let’s shove it up his a$$ by passing healthcare reform by budget reconciliation.
The time for playing is OVER. Kick Loserman to the curb, get Reid off his fence, and let’s get the real leaders of this country to finally get real healthcare reform passed…
October 28th, 2009 at 3:25 pmPlease do not hesitate to send Joe a note telling him how much we appreciate him…I’m surprised I haven’t received a visit from SOME type of of agency after the message I sent him yesterday…that piece of crap excuse for a man and Senator!!!!
October 28th, 2009 at 3:25 pmLieberman is a two-faced piece of human excrement, and should never have been given his chairmanships back after the election. The Dems made a fatal mistake allowing that liar back into the fold, and it appears that it is coming back to haunt them in a big way.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:26 pmThis afternoon, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) appeared on Fox News …
What’s the big deal? FauxSnooze is journalism’s equivalent of Bizarro World … so you just take whatever’s said there and negate the truth value of the assertion, and you come out honest. Easy as pie. Regular as clockwork. Works like a charm.
Cheers,
October 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pm*
from my inbox and senator durbin:
The tide is shifting our way.
You joined over 100,000 Americans to support a public option at CitizensForAPublicOption.com. Thanks to the tireless efforts of activists like you we’ve seen a tremendous shift in the health care reform debate. On Monday, Majority Leader Harry Reid introduced the merged Senate health care bill — a bill that includes a public option.
The question is no longer if we will have some sort of public option in the final health care reform bill, but instead what form it will take.
There are several interpretations of what a public option should look like, and I’d like to share the preferences of the American people with my colleagues in the Senate. But I must do so before the final health care reform bill comes to a vote on the Senate floor in the coming weeks.
Please rank your preferences for what form the public option should take in the final bill at:
http://www.DickDurbin.com/PublicOptionPoll
thank you.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pmThe people of Connecticut desperately need to privatize Lieberman.
Liquidate his government salary
Downsize his legislative powers
Terminate his socialized benefits
Foreclose his Senate office
And send him packing. He’ll bounce back as a lobbyist, either for a hawkish Israeli PAC or for one of the many health insurance corps lining the Nutmeg State.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:28 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Good job Joe. Way to stand up to the extremist in your party. You and the blue dogs need to stand up and show that not all of you are out of touch with the American people.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pmBeefswallower
You are a LIAR. You KNOW you are a liar even as stupid as you are. Just STFU. You are too stupid to contribute to an adult coversation
October 28th, 2009 at 3:36 pmI am so disgusted and depressed with this whole issue. To think that he, no doubt, purposely waited until the last second to speak up and show his true colors is absolutely despicable. What a conniving, deceitful human being. He has known all along that he would never vote for a public option and that he would help Republicans filibuster, yet I suspect he never once voiced that opinion until Reid announced his intent. That is just such a low blow to all of us who have waited so long for health care reform. But you know, he isn’t the only wolf in sheep’s skin we have to worry about: Lincoln, Baucas, Nelson, Landrieu. Our own are killing us. And for Joe Liar Lieberman to run to the Rabid Fox just shows he is running for cover. Chickensh$t.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:36 pmSouthernMORON
Try to remember the last two elections. It is MORONS like YOU that are out of touch. My GOD you are stupid
October 28th, 2009 at 3:37 pmBeefeater, this is something you and I can agree on – Al Gore’s selection of the “anti-Clinton”, which was what people saw Lieberman as in 2000, was a huge mistake. The guy is one of the biggest, backstabbing weasels in congress.
Southern Man, currently, public support for a public option in the health reform legislation runs anywhere between 55 and 77%. Most polls put it at about 65%. So, I’m not sure what you think you mean when you say “out of touch.”
October 28th, 2009 at 3:38 pmhasnt joe become so much of a maverick these days, must have rub off went he had his head so far up Macains azzzz
October 28th, 2009 at 3:38 pm…a public option that reimburses providers at lower rates than private payers would force providers to raise costs for Americans with private coverage in order to make-up the difference.
Not true… Any doctor who is a member of an Insurance Network (BC/BS HMO/PPO, Aetna, Medicare or any other private ins) has already agreed to accept the amount the insurance company determines to be the fee for the service provided.
The Doctor CANNOT charge more, or if they do, they will be kicked out of the network and lose access to that network’s patients.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Beefeater: “Real show of good judgment (or a “heck of a job, Brownie” moment). Sure is a good thing we dodged that disaster in the making. It could have destroyed the democrat party!”
Yeah. Bad choice of VP. But, if the job hadn’t been stolen from him by the Supremes, the chances are that we wouldn’t have been gashed like we were on 9-11. A President Gore would have implemented the suggestions of his own “Gore Commission” on terrorism. Among the new things would have been armed air marshals, reinforced cockpit doors and more stringent check in at airports, any one of which could have prevented the attack.
Oh, and “democrat” in the context of your sentence is not a proper adjective. The correct way to say what you want to say in English would be “Democratic” Party. You can identify someone as a “Democrat”. That’s fine. No offense. Just thought you needed a little help in English. Is it your second language?
October 28th, 2009 at 3:44 pmSouthern Man 2 says:
Good job Joe. Way to stand up to the extremist in your party.
When did “joe” stand up to the “blue dogs”, since “they” are the extremists in both the party in the country. You know. The country where the “mainstream” wants a public option? ;)
Southern Man 2 says:
You and the blue dogs need to stand up and show that not all of you are out of touch with the American people.
LOL! Says the extremist 18%er that is so out of touch with the American people that he doesn’t realize the “majority” of Americans want a public option! LOL! You “extremist” lunatics are all alike!
October 28th, 2009 at 3:48 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Beefswallower
I am not your friend. I just slap the stupid out of you because you are a LIAR and an ignorant punkass troll. You are STUPID beyond human comprehension. I dont know what you get out of constantly showing how unspeakably STUPID you are
October 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pmIf Joe Lieberman were Native American his name would be “Little Big Weasel”!
October 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pmLieberman is a sellout, hypocrite, and an obstructionist Senator in disguise of the GOP party. Someone needs to call him out of this flashback. He proposed public option in 2004 and 2006:
h/t TPM:
Back when Lieberman was a full-fledged Democrat and sought the party’s nomination for President, he said this at a debate in South Carolina on January 29, 2004:
“And one of the things we will do when we’re one nation is to end the moral outrage of 44 million people without health insurance in the richest country in the world, nine million children whose parents can’t take them to the doctor when they get sick ’cause they can’t pay the bill. I’m gonna do that, and also help the millions who have insurance that can’t pay it, by creating national health insurance pools like the ones members of Congress get our insurance from.
“Promises: When you’re born, child in America, you get a membership card, and MediKids covers your insurance. Two, if you lose your job, you will not lose your health insurance. Three, underemployed, self-employed, small business, you can buy into this plan, it’ll cost you a lot less, and incidentally, you’ll get drug benefits with it. That’s the kind of centrist leadership that produces results, and that’s the kind of president America needs and I’ll be.”
(Transcript via Nexis)
In 2006:
October 23, 2006:
I’ve been working on health insurance reform for more than a dozen years. … I have offered a comprehensive program. Small business health insurance reform, plus something I call MediKids to cover all the children in America on a sliding fee basis up until the age of 25.
MediChoice to allow anybody in our country to buy into a national insurance pool like the health insurance pool that we federal employees and Members of Congress have. Medical malpractice reform.
It will cover 95% of those who are not covered now, and it will reduce the pressure on rising costs for all the millions of others.
July 6, 2006:
What I’m saying to the people of Connecticut, I can do more for you and your families to get something done to make health care affordable, to get universal health insurance.
H/t http://jed-lewison.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/27/797737/-FLASHBACK:-Lieberman-pledged-support-for-health-reform
October 28th, 2009 at 3:53 pmSouthernMORON
My GOD you are stupid. I cant believe any adult is stupid enough to swallow such ignorant propaganda. Then again since you are SO STUPID you dont even know the name of the biggest political party in America what can we expect from you but abject stupidity? If the GOP werent lockstep against ANY reasoable reform the bluedogs would be irrelevant. It is the GOP that makes the fact the DemocratIC party is more ideologically broad work to their disadvantage. Some dems usually vote for most GOP bills when they are a minority. The GOP is a brainwashed, lockstep group of ideologues who dont care ANYTHING about what is best for Americans ONLY what is best for the GOP. The stupidest people on the planet like you CLEARLY ARE buy such stupidity. Normal humans know better
October 28th, 2009 at 3:54 pmFrom RawStory:
Said Kucinich: “We compromised on [a] single payer [health care system] by backing a public option, and now we are being asked to compromise the public option with negotiated rates. In conference, we will likely be asked to compromise negotiated rates with a trigger. In each and every step of the health care debate, the insurance companies have won. If they get hundreds of billions of dollars in new taxpayer subsidies, they get to raise their premiums, and increase their co-pays and deductibles, while the public is forced to pay for private insurance, then the insurance companies win big.
http://rawstory.com/2009/10/feingold-health-reform/
October 28th, 2009 at 3:55 pmI still can’t understand why Joe the Liar is still considered relevant. He is hated as much by his own Connecticut constituents as he is by the mainstream of the Democratic party (to which he is supposed to caucus).
What a total arse-wipe!
October 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pmLieberman: The Public Option Will Raise Premiums And Increase The Debt.
Of course he is correct. The “public option” will become the biggest cluster f— in USA history.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:01 pmLieberman is a pathetic excuse for an honest human being, let alone a politician.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:05 pmI’m going to start using the word lieberman for the word lie.
I will be saying, “Don’t lieberman to me.”
Or
“Tell the truth, don’t lieberman anymore.”
Or
“Tell me one more lieberman and you’re out of here.”
Or
“Stop your liebermaning.”
October 28th, 2009 at 4:10 pmMr Duke
YOU are the stupidest pile of dogshit in history
October 28th, 2009 at 4:11 pmSouthernMan: “You have the majority. Use it.”
One challenge to the civil discourse is that we have a very complicated legislative system and people who are ignorant and/or stupid have a tough time appreciating the details. They tend to believe things are a lot simpler than in reality. I guess education would help, but there will always be stupid people.
Mr. Duke, what you’re saying is that if we expand the Medicare concept to the population as a whole, something at least half of the rest of the industrialized world has already successfully done, it will be a disaster. Is there any tangible, historical evidence you can offer for this opinion of yours or do you just expect people to take your word for it? Do you know any Medicare recipients who would give up their program for a privately run one?
October 28th, 2009 at 4:11 pmWhen people hear public option, I think they think it’s for free. It’s not for free. Somebody is going to have to pay for it and you can bet it’s going to be the taxpayers and the people who pay health insurance premiums now.
Bingo. Couldn’t say it better myself. Cluster f—.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:11 pmEugeneDebs says:
——————————————————————————–
SouthernMORON
My GOD you are stupid. I cant believe any adult is stupid enough to swallow such ignorant propaganda. Then again since you are SO STUPID you dont even know the name of the biggest political party in America what can we expect from you but abject stupidity? If the GOP werent lockstep against ANY reasoable reform the bluedogs would be irrelevant. It is the GOP that makes the fact the DemocratIC party is more ideologically broad work to their disadvantage. Some dems usually vote for most GOP bills when they are a minority. The GOP is a brainwashed, lockstep group of ideologues who dont care ANYTHING about what is best for Americans ONLY what is best for the GOP. The stupidest people on the planet like you CLEARLY ARE buy such stupidity. Normal humans know better
October 28th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
—————
The dems have the majority in the House and Congress, do they not? They don’t need one vote from republicans to pass any legislation they want. The problem is, if this legislation passes and it turns out to be an utter failure, it’s all on the dems. They can’t have that, can they? So instead of taking on memebers of it’s own party, the ones who are really not on board, bluedogs, they blame republicans. Take out the goverment option and this bill will pass. It’s that simple.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:12 pmDuke
GOD you are stupid. The public option will COST just like private insurance. It just wont get rid of you for having a pre existing condition or BS recissions to get out of paying the costs they are obligated to pay after years of collecting premiums. Doesnt it make you just cry thinking about how bone chillingly ignorant you are?
October 28th, 2009 at 4:14 pmSouthernMORON
Yeah. We KNOW the stunningly STUPID talking point. Its incredibly ignorant and only the stupidest people known to man like YOU take it seriously. The GOP is SOLIDLY against it yet its not THEIR fault if it fails? Grow up. No one but morons like YOU are stupid enought to take that seriously. The GOP is against ANY reasonable healthcare reform because if it WORKS they know they will be out of power for a generation just like they were after FDR. You can keep repeating it over and over it you want. I know you brainwashed imbeciles think if you repeat something often enough it magically becomes true but in REALITY, I know that is a dirty word for you, that talking point is JUST as stupid the tenth time you spew it as it was the FIRST time. Just because Rush TOLD you to believe it doesnt mean it isnt transparently STUPID
October 28th, 2009 at 4:17 pmNinerFan says:
——————————————————————————–
SouthernMan: “You have the majority. Use it.”
One challenge to the civil discourse is that we have a very complicated legislative system and people who are ignorant and/or stupid have a tough time appreciating the details. They tend to believe things are a lot simpler than in reality. I guess education would help, but there will always be stupid people.
, 2009 at 4:11 pm
————-
I’ll ask the question knowing it won’t be answered; If all democrats were on board with the public option, would it have the votes to pass in both houses?
October 28th, 2009 at 4:18 pmJoe Lieberman feeds his family from the blood of those killed through rescission.
See you in hell motherfcuker…
October 28th, 2009 at 4:19 pmIf all democrats were on board with the public option, would it have the votes to pass in both houses?
Dems believe in Democracy.
Repukes believe in Fascism.
Simple really you 2-bit moron.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:20 pmSouthernMORON
So WHAT? So 99% or 100% of the GOP is against it half a dozen or so Dems are bucking it and it is the DEMOCRATS fault if it fails. Being LOCKSTEP against reform carries NO consequences for Republicans? Tell me just how STUPID you have to be to think THAT makes sense.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:21 pmOh yes, it would be the most awful thing ever. Just like it was in the UK, and Germany, and France, and Japan, and….
Too bad we got this new here fangled thingamabob called the internets that lets us – the masses – find out all on our own how gov’t run healthcare works in the rest of the industrialized, civilized world.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:23 pmBeefeater says:
So what have we learned here? In addition to inventing the Internets and Global Warming, AlGore nominated the lying POS and traitor Joe Lieberman to be his VP candidate in 2000.
LOL! Only you right wing extremists ever “claimed” that Al Gore “invented” the internet. Yeah, Joe turned out to be a real loser, that’s what Al got for reaching out to the “Blue Dog” dorks like you.
Beefeater says:
Real show of good judgment (or a “heck of a job, Brownie” moment). Sure is a good thing we dodged that disaster in the making. It could have destroyed the democrat party!
Yawn… When you consider how disastrous your right wing extremist VPs are, not really…
October 28th, 2009 at 4:27 pmSouthern Man 2 says:
I’ll ask the question knowing it won’t be answered; If all democrats were on board with the public option, would it have the votes to pass in both houses?
Actually it would pass in both houses, if the GOP wasn’t the party of “no”, “obstructionism” and “filibuster”.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:28 pmSouthern Man: “I’ll ask the question knowing it won’t be answered; If all democrats were on board with the public option, would it have the votes to pass in both houses?”
Why wouldn’t anyone answer? Tell you what – I’ll answer, knowing that an honest answer doesn’t matter to you. It’s simple. They’ve got the seats to do anything they want in the House. That’s why their bill has a robust public option. In the Senate, they have 58 Dems and 2 independents in the caucus. But, one independent, Lieberman, says he will support Republican filibusters. You need 60 votes to break a filibuster, so unless Lieberman or one republican changes, the Republican party will be able to successfully block health care reform with a public option.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:28 pmEugeneDebs says:
——————————————————————————–
SouthernMORON
Yeah. We KNOW the stunningly STUPID talking point. Its incredibly ignorant and only the stupidest people known to man like YOU take it seriously. The GOP is SOLIDLY against it yet its not THEIR fault if it fails? Grow up. No one but morons like YOU are stupid enought to take that seriously. The GOP is against ANY reasonable healthcare reform because if it WORKS they know they will be out of power for a generation just like they were after FDR. You can keep repeating it over and over it you want. I know you brainwashed imbeciles think if you repeat something often enough it magically becomes true but in REALITY, I know that is a dirty word for you, that talking point is JUST as stupid the tenth time you spew it as it was the FIRST time. Just because Rush TOLD you to believe it doesnt mean it isnt transparently STUPID
October 28th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
———
The GOP is not against reasonable healthcare reform. They are against the goverment running it. Of course they want it to fail. Conservatives want less goverment, not more. And for many good reasons. I would tell you why I think the public option is not a good idea, but you would probably go on a childlike rant as you normally do, intead of a debate on the topic at hand.
You calling me “brainwashed” made my day. Pot, meet kettle.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:31 pmSouthern Man 2: “Take out the goverment option and this bill will pass. It’s that simple.”
That’s right. Republicans are blocking a provision in health care reform that anywhere between 60 and 75% of the American public says it needs. We get it. They’re blocking meaningful health care reform in an ongoing effort to protect the profits of the health care industry. And Lieberman is right there with them. We know.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:31 pmSouthern Man 2 says:
The dems have the majority in the House and Congress, do they not?
You don’t know much about the US do you? They didn’t teach you our government in your Taliban civics classes?
The Senate has a “filibuster” that thwarts the “majority” will of the people and their representatives. It’s all you “conservatives” have anymore – “no”.
Southern Man 2 says:
They don’t need one vote from republicans to pass any legislation they want.
Actually they do, unless the GOP won’t filibuster. But you undemocratic GOP extremists won’t allow for a “vote”, you block it.
Southern Man 2 says:
The problem is, if this legislation passes and it turns out to be an utter failure, it’s all on the dems.
If that’s true, then tell the GOP to not filibuster and let the vote happen. Or are you “chickens”?
Southern Man 2 says:
They can’t have that, can they?
As long as the GOP remains undemocratic? Probably not.
Southern Man 2 says:
So instead of taking on memebers of it’s own party, the ones who are really not on board, bluedogs, they blame republicans. Take out the goverment option and this bill will pass. It’s that simple.
Yawn… Says the cowardly Republican undemocratic traitor.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:31 pmI never understood this rhetoric. What difference are they referring to? Considering that the profit margins for insurance companies are extremely high and the actual pay-out is low, I’m guessing they’re saying their bonuses and salaries will have to remain the same while their client base reduces. IE – Our product is worth less but we want the same profit margin across the board and bonuses shall remain the same, always.
Amazing that they would say this. Up front it would appear to be them complaining about their costs, but their costs are tied up in huge bonuses and salaries of their higher ups, not in their policy pay-outs.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:32 pmSouthern Man 2 says:
The GOP is not against reasonable healthcare reform.
You Lie!
Southern Man 2 says:
They are against the goverment running it.
Actually they were against all meaningful reform, even when the public option wasn’t included. You lie!
Southern Man 2 says:
Of course they want it to fail. Conservatives want less goverment, not more.
Which is why you terrorist traitors want our government and our “country” to fail.
Southern Man 2 says:
And for many good reasons.
You’re traitors that don’t believe in democracy?
Southern Man 2 says:
I would tell you why I think the public option is not a good idea, but you would probably go on a childlike rant as you normally do, intead of a debate on the topic at hand.
Just because you’re a ranting child, you judge everyone on your lack of adult morality and values. Yawn…
Southern Man 2 says:
You calling me “brainwashed” made my day. Pot, meet kettle.
That’s because the “facts” prove you are “brainwashed”, and your childishness resorts to defending your insanity by accusing others of your problem. Typical projecting lunatic fringe.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:34 pmSouthern Man: “Conservatives want less goverment, not more.”
Nonsense. In the last 30 years, the size and scope of government has consistently grown during Republican administrations and fallen during Democratic ones.
Southern: “I would tell you why I think the public option is not a good idea..”
Then, you’d have to explain why a self-funded version of Medicare is not a good idea, because that’s what the public option is. It’s administered as Medicare is, with it’s typical 2 to 3% overhead, but funded by the people who buy into the system like any insurance plan. The result is that people can pay lower premiums because they don’t have to account for the tremendous overhead of private insurance corporations.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:34 pmJust like their German counterparts, the american fascists don’t trust “democracy” which is why they use undemocratic means to block reform.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:35 pmSouthernMORON
You are a LIAR. They are against all meaningful reform. Without a public option at the LEAST there is no real reform. I keep calling you a brainwashed moron because you keep spewing the stupidest talking points known to man. You PROVE you are a brainwashed moron. You spew it because Rush programmed you with it and you are too stupid to get that it is ridiculous
October 28th, 2009 at 4:38 pmAaaah, says something about loyality to party and the American people.
How many insurance companies in Connecticut again?
I remember LIEberman was the first person to denounce President Clinton on the floor of the Senate . .
Fox loved it . .
October 28th, 2009 at 4:40 pmNinerFan says:
——————————————————————————–
Southern Man: “I’ll ask the question knowing it won’t be answered; If all democrats were on board with the public option, would it have the votes to pass in both houses?”
Why wouldn’t anyone answer? Tell you what – I’ll answer, knowing that an honest answer doesn’t matter to you. It’s simple. They’ve got the seats to do anything they want in the House. That’s why their bill has a robust public option. In the Senate, they have 58 Dems and 2 independents in the caucus. But, one independent, Lieberman, says he will support Republican filibusters. You need 60 votes to break a filibuster, so unless Lieberman or one republican changes, the Republican party will be able to successfully block health care reform with a public option.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
—————
Thank you. So why not remove the public option and proceed without it for now? The votes would be there today and healthcare reform begins. The public option can be debated down the road. Why does everything have to be done now? A bill as big as healthcare needs to be analyzed for more than a few months.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:42 pm.Joe Lieberman October 2006 (when he was trying to get the people’s vote):
“I’ve been working on health insurance reform for more than a dozen years. … I have offered a comprehensive program. Small business health insurance reform, plus something I call MediKids to cover all the children in America on a sliding fee basis up until the age of 25.
“MediChoice to allow anybody in our country to buy into a national insurance pool like the health insurance pool that we federal employees and Members of Congress have. Medical malpractice reform.
“It will cover 95% of those who are not covered now, and it will reduce the pressure on rising costs for all the millions of others.”
2004 presidential campaign:
“My plan will also enable all Americans who don’t have access to affordable, conventional health insurance to buy into new MediChoice health insurance pools, modeled on the health care program for federal employees. The MediChoice pools will be open to all workers who currently fall through insurance cracks. This includes self-employed, part-time, seasonal and temporary workers. It also will give stay-at-home moms, early retirees over 55 and workers in small companies with less than 50 employees access to affordable health benefits.”
—————————–
This is totally wrong to get votes by promising a strong public option—and then once you are in office, pull a complete 180 degrees!
October 28th, 2009 at 4:45 pmbecause without at LEAST a public option there is NO REFORM. No meaningful reform. They HAVE to have some leverage to reign in the corruption of the private insurance agencies. Their disgusting practices. We REALLY need the kind of national healthcare the rest of the industrial world has. Unfortunatly we have really stupid people here always ready to carry water against their best interest and FOR the interests of wealth and power. Corporate interests
October 28th, 2009 at 4:47 pmAccording to Olbermann last night, Aetna, Signa, Travelers, and Hartford are all headquartered in Conneticut. And Lieberman has received $1 million from them recently.
according to NBC/Newsweek poll out yesterday:
68% in Conn favor public option, including 83% of Dems and 73% of Independents
73% of all Americans
Thompson-Reuters study said $800 Billion is wasted EVERY year in our current system.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:51 pmEugeneDebs, I agree.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:54 pmBut if the public option we get is only available to those who currently have nothing—that is also a gift to the Insurance companies. The public plan gets all the bad cases and the insurance corps can raise their rates higher, deny more claims, and their customers cannot leave.
just the bleepn facts says:
——————————————————————————–
Southern Man 2 says:
The GOP is not against reasonable healthcare reform.
You Lie!
Southern Man 2 says:
They are against the goverment running it.
Actually they were against all meaningful reform, even when the public option wasn’t included. You lie!
Southern Man 2 says:
Of course they want it to fail. Conservatives want less goverment, not more.
Which is why you terrorist traitors want our government and our “country” to fail.
Southern Man 2 says:
And for many good reasons.
You’re traitors that don’t believe in democracy?
Southern Man 2 says:
I would tell you why I think the public option is not a good idea, but you would probably go on a childlike rant as you normally do, intead of a debate on the topic at hand.
Just because you’re a ranting child, you judge everyone on your lack of adult morality and values. Yawn…
Southern Man 2 says:
You calling me “brainwashed” made my day. Pot, meet kettle.
That’s because the “facts” prove you are “brainwashed”, and your childishness resorts to defending your insanity by accusing others of your problem. Typical projecting lunatic fringe.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
————-
Where have I exhibited childishness? By understanding that all Uegene Debs brings to the table are insults? And speaking of projection, saying I listen to Rush, classic lunatic projecting. And what “problems” have I “accused” on others?
October 28th, 2009 at 4:58 pmhttp://tinyurl.com/do-it-right-pdf
This link exposes the lie that the health care reformers are “rushing” reform. Senator McConnell has started pushing the need for lengthy debate, based on preposterous history of the Senate and the Republican Party.
Help me expose the lie.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:59 pmKieth
That is true. The public option should be available to everyone.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:06 pmEugeneDebs says:
——————————————————————————–
because without at LEAST a public option there is NO REFORM. No meaningful reform. They HAVE to have some leverage to reign in the corruption of the private insurance agencies. Their disgusting practices. We REALLY need the kind of national healthcare the rest of the industrial world has. Unfortunatly we have really stupid people here always ready to carry water against their best interest and FOR the interests of wealth and power. Corporate interests
October 28th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
———-
This is what scares people. Your view right there. “They HAVE to have some leverage to reign in the corruption of the private insurance agencies.”
They can reform healthcare without the public option. So if they get everything else they want without the public option, it’s not “meaningful”? The goverment completely taking over the healthcare industry will not be good for America.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:07 pmSouthernMORON
Werent you the dipshit who was talking about the Democrat party? Insulting and childish. Petty and STUPID. So spare me the pathetic snivelling that I am not treating YOU with respect PUNK. I brought a lot more than the insults you DESERVE. It isnt my fault you are so stupid that you cant understand simple logic. Tell us how you dont listen to Rush and just happen to regurgitate his talking points. I love that one. I also love to laugh at morons as stupid as you
October 28th, 2009 at 5:09 pmSouthernMORON
You are just a LIAR. You just regurgitate the stupidest talking points in existance because its what Rush TOLD you to think. There is NO push in congress for TAKING over the healthcare system. YOU are a liar. A public option IS necessary. The private insurances have had DECADES to give decent healthcare and what we have is healthcare we pay MORE for per capita AND as a percentage of our GDP while coming in 37th on the quality list. Half of all bankrupcies being healthcare related and 44 THOUSAND deaths per year due to lack of access to healthcare. Ebenezer Scrooge worshipping weasels like YOU dont CARE how many Americans have to DIE to assure higher corporate profits. Americans overall however are not as soulless and selfish as YOU. That is why a HUGE majority of Americans WANT a public option.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:13 pmSouthern Man 2,
Noone, noone, noone has come anywhere near proposing the government completely taking over healthcare. If you can imagine expanding Medicare until it covers about 10 million of the people who currently have NOTHING—–that would be the result. What’s wrong with that? Don’t take something that noone imagines will happen and attack that.
Do doctors work for Medicare? No.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:15 pmDo nurses work for Medicare? No.
Are hospitals or clinics or pharmacuetical companies owned by Medicare? No.
LIEBERMAN: If the public option, the government run health insurance company negotiates hard to lower the reimbursement — the money it’s paying to hospitals, doctors — they’re [providers] going to have to get that money somewhere. And where they’re going to get it is from the 200 million Americans who today have private health insurance. Premiums will go up. It’s exactly what’s happened with Medicare and Medicaid. [...]
When people hear public option, I think they think it’s for free. It’s not for free. Somebody is going to have to pay for it and you can bet it’s going to be the taxpayers and the people who pay health insurance premiums now.
______________________________________________________________
I realize that Lieberman already has government-provided insurance and is therefore completely out of touch with ordinary Americans who either don’t have it at all, have it but struggle to pay for it, have it but with such a huge deductible it’s almost like not having it, or have it but worry constantly about losing it.
But here’s what’s happening out in the real world — just for Joe’s edification:
Premiums are already going up (skyrocketing, in fact) for those who have insurance to make up for those who don’t. When Uninsured Guy winds up dying of a heart attack in an emergency room after a lifetime of medical neglect due to lack of insurance, the hospital doesn’t get paid. Multiply Uninsured Guy by a lot of uninsured people, and the hospital has a problem. So, to keep from closing their doors, the hospital makes up the shortfall by hiking their rates. This in turn increases the claims paid by insurance companies, who turn around and increase premiums. And every time premiums go up, another layer of people on the borderline become uninsured, making the problem even worse. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Another thing Joe needs to know is that we’re going to pay for the health care of people who can’t pay for it themselves. Why? Because in our culture, we don’t let people bleed to death in the street (or the equivalent). So while we deny them health care for wellness and maintenance, we will treat them when they’re at death’s door — in an emergency room, the most expensive type of health care available. It’s cheaper to keep someone healthy than to try to rescue them from the jaws of death caused by a preventable condition — this is just common sense that’s lost on those stuck on the teat of the health insurance lobby.
I heard on NPR the story of a single mother in her mid-thirties. She worked, and made too much money to qualify for Medicaid, but her employer offered no insurance, and she couldn’t afford it on her own. She had high blood pressure, and needed medication to control it — as well as regular checkups. She had to choose between buying medication for herself or food for her children. She chose food. She had a stroke, and was rushed by paramedics to the hospital, where the emergency room team tried in vain for an hour and a half to save her life.
The cost of that emergency room visit was well up in the six figures. For less than that amount of money, she could have had medication and regular checkups for the rest of her natural life expectancy. Now, not only do other people have to pick up her hospital tab, but other people have to pick up the cost of raising her children, who all became wards of the state upon the death of their mother. Is this somehow better than providing affordable insurance for people who need it?
And finally, even if the government negotiated provider rates down to the bone, it’s doubtful private insurance companies would have to pick up all the slack. Remember that they would be competing with a public option, so it’s not likely they would have the flexibility to raise their premiums sky high — that would send their customers away in droves. Their profits would probably take a hit, but they could afford to operate a bit leaner than they do now. Furthermore, they can do some negotiating of their own. In fact, they already do — why do you think they all have these annoying “Preferred Provider Networks”?
Oh, and one more thing — those of us who favor a public option don’t believe it’s “free health care”. I have never heard ANY supporter of a public option characterize it in that manner. The only people who have conflated “public option” and “free”, are those who are against it and are trying to push the meme that the rest of us have been sucked in by a myth.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:15 pmEugeneDebs, why do you always misspell my name? :)
October 28th, 2009 at 5:17 pmSouthernMORON couldnt care LESS what is true or factual. He has his Limborg talking point bag and no matter WHAT is being talked about all he does is reach in and spew what he was programmed to think
October 28th, 2009 at 5:17 pmKeith
Sorry. I am a very bad typist. I often transpose letters especially two vowels together. I learned to type long ago and frankly never got good at it. I didnt notice. It wasnt intentional
October 28th, 2009 at 5:18 pmEugeneDebs says:
——————————————————————————–
SouthernMORON
Werent you the dipshit who was talking about the Democrat party? Insulting and childish. Petty and STUPID. So spare me the pathetic snivelling that I am not treating YOU with respect PUNK. I brought a lot more than the insults you DESERVE. It isnt my fault you are so stupid that you cant understand simple logic. Tell us how you dont listen to Rush and just happen to regurgitate his talking points. I love that one. I also love to laugh at morons as stupid as you
October 28th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
———–
I was referring to “democrats”, not the party “democratic”. Here’s an example from an earlier post-
NinerFan says:
——————————————————————————–
Oh, and “democrat” in the context of your sentence is not a proper adjective. The correct way to say what you want to say in English would be “Democratic” Party. You can identify someone as a “Democrat”. That’s fine. No offense. Just thought you needed a little help in English. Is it your second language?
October 28th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
———–
And no, I don’t listen to Rush. You must listen though, since it seems you know so much about what he says. I have better things to do with my time. Apparently, you don’t.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:20 pmSouthern Man: “So why not remove the public option and proceed without it for now?”
Because the existence of a public option is the single most powerful way to bring the cost of delivery down. Right now, insurance companies spend lots of money on things like denying care, marketing and huge payouts to board members and CEO’s. A public option forces them to tighten their belts and get serious about delivering the service at a better cost to the consumer. Let me ask you how you think we’re supposed to get insurance corporations to cut down on their profits without competition. Ask nicely?
October 28th, 2009 at 5:22 pmSouthern Man @ #42: “The democrat party can’t even agree how to handle the public option.”
It’s the Democratic Party. The first person to actually be adolescent and petty enough to start saying it the wrong way for the “rat” effect was Joe McCarthy in the 50’s. Nice company you’re in. One of the biggest a-holes in American history.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:26 pmKeith says:
——————————————————————————–
Southern Man 2,
Noone, noone, noone has come anywhere near proposing the government completely taking over healthcare. If you can imagine expanding Medicare until it covers about 10 million of the people who currently have NOTHING—–that would be the result. What’s wrong with that? Don’t take something that noone imagines will happen and attack that.
Do doctors work for Medicare? No.
Do nurses work for Medicare? No.
Are hospitals or clinics or pharmacuetical companies owned by Medicare? No.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
———
I understand that Keith. Why don’t we just expand medicare? Because medicare could be broke in a decade? What I don’t understand is that most of you are ok with the goverment fining you if you decide you don’t want a plan. The IRS collecting fines because you decide you don’t need any insurance? That’s constitutional? I understand it needs to be paid for. That’s why, in it’s current form, I’m against it. We can come up with more creative ways to pay for it can’t we? Why not just increase taxes on the rich, say, 20%, and the middle class 2%.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:33 pmSenator LIEBERMAN is very smart and intelligent, meaing all sense of the words. So, why does a member of a minoriy chose to antagonize the majority?
October 28th, 2009 at 5:33 pmHe knows the support nations in the Middle East get, is he unhappy and wishes to attack Pres. Obama to get “a batter deal” in funds or weapons?
Did he hear that the previous limitations imposed on the use of the American made F-16 may be re-impossed in light of the findings of the World Human Rights Commission on Crimes Against Human Rights? It found both Hamaz and Israel guilt. By the way, and with regret for the need, the head of it was a Jewish leader that has a pristine reputation for his work in places like Serbia, Kosovo, South Africa, etc.
Maybe we should increase contributions to Israel, I forget what they are, currently.
Like I wrote at the start, his effort is confusing because he is very intelligent and a good American. He would have been and ideal Vice-President choice, until bigotry subsides and we shall have, some day, a President judged only by his character. I hope to live that long, I am 76, practically.
SouthernMORON
YOU are a LIAR. You said the DEMOCRAT PARTY. THAT was directly from your post. Sure you dont listen to Rush you just repeat all his talking points from Democrat Party to Dems have the votes so its THEIR fault if healthcare reform fails to government is trying to TAKE OVER the healthcare industry. Now there isnt a SHRED of logic or reality in those talking points so you are REGURGITATING them. You have been PROGRAMMED with them. Whether it is Rush or some other rightwing screechmonkey doing the programming doesnt mean much. I use Rush as shorthand for all of them. Since you are CLEARLY a liar. You lied STRAIGHT out saying you were referring to Democrats not the party when you said DIRECLTY” the Democrat PARTY, there is no reason to believe ANYTHING you say
October 28th, 2009 at 5:34 pmSouthernMan
I would have no problem increasing taxes to pay for single payer. Right now I have VERY good insurance. Most likely much better than any public option would be. The problem with that is the paying TWICE. I pay for my insurance already. Paying taxes for OTHER insurance is ok with ME but would be a tough sell. What YOU are advocating would BE the death of private insurance. I am fine with that but it isnt the approach being taken NOW.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:38 pmSouthern Man: “Why not just increase taxes on the rich, say, 20%, and the middle class 2%.”
We don’t need to do anything even close to that. A 3% increase in the top marginal rate along with cutting out the subsidies for insurance corporations probably pays for everything. A 3% increase in the top rate over $250K affects a tiny percentage of the population. If you make, say $350K a year, your taxes would go up by just $3000 and everyone in our country gets coverage. Come on, now. What exactly is wrong with that?
October 28th, 2009 at 5:40 pmKeith says:
EugeneDebs, I agree.
But if the public option we get is only available to those who currently have nothing—that is also a gift to the Insurance companies. The public plan gets all the bad cases and the insurance corps can raise their rates higher, deny more claims, and their customers cannot leave.
Also, I suspect it would promote a ‘Us vs. Them’ mentality.
If critics start ranting and raving about the cost of the public option (whether it’ll be true or not) those with more expensive employer-based plans might feel as though their taxes (and/or premium increases) were paying for the plans of those people who had the public option.
The public option has to be available to all.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:44 pmMikeSar says:
we shall have, some day, a President judged only by his character.
That would be nice. Can we start, like, right now?
October 28th, 2009 at 5:48 pmEugeneDebs says:
——————————————————————————–
SouthernMan
I would have no problem increasing taxes to pay for single payer. Right now I have VERY good insurance. Most likely much better than any public option would be. The problem with that is the paying TWICE. I pay for my insurance already. Paying taxes for OTHER insurance is ok with ME but would be a tough sell. What YOU are advocating would BE the death of private insurance. I am fine with that but it isnt the approach being taken NOW.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
———–
Of course you are fine with the “death” of a private industry. Which one do you want to go after next?? How about the pharmaceutical industry? Where does it end?
October 28th, 2009 at 5:49 pmThe rest of the world proved they do it better. Some things work out with a profit motive others dont. Healthcare doesnt. 44 THOUSAND Americans per year DIE for that profit motive. I know that is ok with YOU but not me. How many MORE have to DIE before you begin to put American LIVES above corporate prifits? Give me a number so we can stop annoying you with the FACTS. When we reach that number you can shed your soulless Ebenezer Scrooge worshipping persona and join the human race.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:52 pmThe Pharmacuetical industry already gets HUGE public subsidy. Many of the drugs they profit off of were developed with taxpayer dollars. Check out Taxol. Public cost PRivate profit is the name of the game for corporations.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:54 pmNinerFan says:
——————————————————————————–
Southern Man: “Why not just increase taxes on the rich, say, 20%, and the middle class 2%.”
We don’t need to do anything even close to that. A 3% increase in the top marginal rate along with cutting out the subsidies for insurance corporations probably pays for everything. A 3% increase in the top rate over $250K affects a tiny percentage of the population. If you make, say $350K a year, your taxes would go up by just $3000 and everyone in our country gets coverage. Come on, now. What exactly is wrong with that?
October 28th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
That’s roughly 5% of the population. You would haved to tax the middle class to get the taxes desired to sustain it. And nothing the goverment ever does is within budget. Taxes would need to be raised again and again. Medicare is a good example.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:56 pmWhere does it end?
October 28th, 2009 at 6:00 pm—-
Always a silly premise…
dbadass
The slippery slope argument. A logical fallacy by definition. Then again if wingnuts didnt argue with logical fallacies they would rarely post any arguments at all
October 28th, 2009 at 6:03 pmSouthernMORON
How often have we raised medicare taxes for the last FORTY PLUS YEARS? Yeah. The demographics of America has changed so we will need to make an adjustment in the future. Your ignorance about how the government never does anything within budget shows how stupid you are. They rebuilt the bridges and highway overpasses in San Fransisco within budget AND on time. You are stupid. Spewing stupid talking points is all you do. Do you even realize how brainwashed and worthless you are?
October 28th, 2009 at 6:06 pmEugeneDebs says:
——————————————————————————–
The rest of the world proved they do it better. Some things work out with a profit motive others dont. Healthcare doesnt. 44 THOUSAND Americans per year DIE for that profit motive. I know that is ok with YOU but not me. How many MORE have to DIE before you begin to put American LIVES above corporate prifits? Give me a number so we can stop annoying you with the FACTS. When we reach that number you can shed your soulless Ebenezer Scrooge worshipping persona and join the human race.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
———–
The system isn’t perfect, but it’s the best in the WORLD. Just because you say isn’t, doesn’t make it so.
45,000 Americans died on US Highways two years ago. We should stop driving because of this? The abuse that will come from the goverment takeover will far exceed anything worthy that happens today. The goverment will deny coverage to some, just as the insurance industry does. They will have to. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but one day, they will. It’s simple supply and demand. It’s happening in The UK today. Look it up. We agree to disagree.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:08 pmEugeneDebs says:
——————————————————————————–
SouthernMORON
How often have we raised medicare taxes for the last FORTY PLUS YEARS? Yeah. The demographics of America has changed so we will need to make an adjustment in the future. Your ignorance about how the government never does anything within budget shows how stupid you are. They rebuilt the bridges and highway overpasses in San Fransisco within budget AND on time. You are stupid. Spewing stupid talking points is all you do. Do you even realize how brainwashed and worthless you are?
October 28th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
———-
And when is medicare expected to go bankrupt? How about SS? Medicaid? You should up your meds. You might realize all the talking points you spew.
By the way, are you married?
October 28th, 2009 at 6:13 pmThe system isn’t perfect, but it’s the best in the WORLD. Just because you say isn’t, doesn’t make it so.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:21 pm—-
But am I to believe it is the best in the WORLD just becuase you say it is so?
The abuse that will come from the goverment takeover will far exceed anything worthy that happens today.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:23 pm—
How can you be sure. Seems you are trying to state unknown future events as facts. That too is a silly premise.
SouthernMORON
I agree you are a LIAR. The UK isnt backing off one bit on their comittment to public healthcare WHICH they have nad for more than SIXTY YEARS. The government salso inst TRYING to take over healthcare which we already pointed out to you. YOU are a LIAR. My GOD ou are stupid. Your car arguement is so stupid I am embarassed FOR you. I see you used the Rush argument he used against gun control and it is just as stupid THIS way. Cars kill people ONLY by and through accidents. Poor people getting denied access to healthcare is INHERENT in the profit motive SYSTEM. So that was just an ignoranat false comp0araison. We do NOT have the best healthare in the world because YOU were told to think so. The WHO shows us 37th on the healthcare list. YOU are stupid and brainwashed so you just believe what you are programmed with. That is YOUR burden. We probably have the best catistrophic healthcare in the world because THAT is where the highest profit margin is. Getting that healthcare to EVERYONE who needs it is the problem. PRivate insurance has FAILED to do this and has had decades to do so. They had their chance. Since they failed they can do out of busniess
October 28th, 2009 at 6:26 pmSouthern Man: “That’s roughly 5% of the population.”
No, 5% doesn’t pay the top marginal rates over $250%. I think it’s more like the top 2% and as you can see, most people in that bracket would see minimal differences. Someone making $300K a year would see his taxes raised by $1700 or less than .6% with a 3% increase in the top rate.
Remember, the top marginal rates are much lower here than in the rest of the industrialized world and much lower than they have historically been in this country. The top marginal rate in the 50’s was 91%. JFK lowered it to 75%. Now, it’s 35%.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:26 pmSouthernMORON
My GOD you are so stupid it is sad. It didnt go bankrupt for the last FORTY PLUS YEARS. The demographics of America has changed. What is it about this simple thing you are just too stupid to understand? My personal information is flat out none of your business
October 28th, 2009 at 6:28 pmSouthern Man: “The system isn’t perfect, but it’s the best in the WORLD. Just because you say isn’t, doesn’t make it so.”
Then look at the only world-wide comparisons we have at the World Health Organization. Our system is not the best in the world in ANY category at all. The only places we’re in first are in costs. We spend the highest percentage of our GDP on health care and we spend the most per person by a large margin. Our results run way down in the pack no mater what metric you’re using.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:30 pmI’d like some details on just exactly what “abuses” you think are going to occur in a government-run Medicare like system.
After all, the insurance-based system includes abuses such as denying services, cutting off coverage, arbitrarily raising your costs and arbitrarily rejecting you if you have a pre-existing condition. Is this the kind of abuse you expect to encounter when you deal with public servants?
October 28th, 2009 at 6:36 pmBeefeater,
Are you going to defend Lieberman against my accusation that he has accepted bribery money? Do you have evidence that contradicts his taking large sums of money from the insurance industry? Do you have evidence that his constituents do not want a public option?
I am still waiting for you to provide evidence to show how unsubstantiated my claim is.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:37 pmSouthern Man: “And when is medicare expected to go bankrupt? How about SS? Medicaid?”
Again, this is about funding. Our top marginal rates are the lowest in the world. Even if we raised our top rate to 40%, it would be the lowest and that alone would fix all of Social Security and Medicare for everyone. I’m telling you – it’s just that simple – billionaires don’t want you to know that because they have the most to lose. And, most of them inherited the majority of their wealth.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:39 pmSouthern Man 2,
If you hate the United States so much, why don’t you move? This country is, and always has been, way more liberal than you would ever like.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:41 pmNinerfan.
If we just took the cap off of SS it would fix all funding problems for the next century.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:54 pmThat’s right, Eugene. The truth is, you wouldn’t even have to completely remove the cap. Just run it up to a million and Social Security is solvent into the next century. And, you could even lower the rate if you ran it up that far so that the vast majority of contributors would actually see a cut.
People need to understand that the wealthiest Americans have gotten so incredibly wealthy that just 3 or 4% can make a huge difference to our budget. And, god dammit, they can afford it. They’ve seen their top rates go from 75% to 35% in the last 40 years and they’ve gotten nothing but breaks. It’s time for them to step up to the plate and make a sacrifice.
October 28th, 2009 at 7:30 pmHere here NINERFAN. THATS what I am talking about.
October 28th, 2009 at 7:34 pmHey Joe, let me put it into Yiddish for you:
What a fcukin’ PUTZ you are!
October 28th, 2009 at 8:41 pmSouthern Man 2 says:
Of course you are fine with the “death” of a private industry. Which one do you want to go after next?? How about the pharmaceutical industry? Where does it end?
Insurance isn’t an industry, it’s a scam.
Also, no one is “killing” insurance, except insurance.
October 28th, 2009 at 9:17 pmSouthern Man 2 says:
Where have I exhibited childishness? By understanding that all Uegene Debs brings to the table are insults? And speaking of projection, saying I listen to Rush, classic lunatic projecting. And what “problems” have I “accused” on others?
LOL! Your entire premise and whining is nothing but whining.
And I hate to inform you of this but medicare isn’t going “bankrupt”, but wall street did. I’m glad your priorities are to giving billions in bonuses while whining about old people getting health care… ZZZzz…
You whiny zealot lunatics are all the same little stupid selfish cheap children.
October 28th, 2009 at 9:19 pmSouthern Man 2 says:
And when is medicare expected to go bankrupt? How about SS? Medicaid? You should up your meds. You might realize all the talking points you spew.
They aren’t going bankrupt.
The irony of whining about “talking points you spew” while spewing “talking points”.
Southern Man 2 says:
By the way, are you married?
Are you mentally retarded?
October 28th, 2009 at 9:20 pmSouthern Man 2 says:
That’s roughly 5% of the population. You would haved to tax the middle class to get the taxes desired to sustain it. And nothing the goverment ever does is within budget. Taxes would need to be raised again and again. Medicare is a good example.
This is nothing but the stupid opinion of a stupid whiner… You got nothing southern bigot.
October 28th, 2009 at 9:22 pmSouthern Man 2 says:
And speaking of projection, saying I listen to Rush, classic lunatic projecting.
I don’t think you understand what “projection” is.
October 28th, 2009 at 9:36 pm“The system isn’t perfect, but it’s the best in the WORLD. Just because you say isn’t, doesn’t make it so.”
I keep hearing this crap from the party of ‘NO!’, and I assume that the people who repeat it have not had much, if any, personal experience with our healthcare system.
A few weeks ago, I was badly bitten by a cat who was very ill. The next morning, I went to my doctor, got pumped up with antibiotics (almost literally – that shot in the butt is a true ‘pain in the arse’.) I was told that if the infection started spreading I would need to go to the ER immediately. Which is where I ended up the next morning. I spent 8 hours in the ER before they finally had a room readied for me. During the three days I was in hospital, while I was unable to use my right arm and the left arm was hooked to an IV, not one of the dozen or so people who flitted in and out of my room offered to: clean the wound which was oozing pus; change the pillowcase which the pus had stained, let alone the bedsheet; or help with even basic stuff like washing my face. I was told that there was a battery backup for the IV, so I could unplug the IV and head to the bathroom by myself. Adding insult to injury, my “insurance coverage” only paid for two of the three days!
I know that there are plenty of people who have suffered infinitely more horrible experiences, but anyone who claims that our healthcare system is the “best in the world” is either incredibly stupid or incredibly insular, or both.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:33 amSo? The insurance companies raise premiums anyway and household debt goes up…What’s Lieberman so concerned about? oh yeah, Aetna’s profits…
October 29th, 2009 at 2:13 amWhy are the Democrats giving this a**hole a pass? Why are they keeping him in their caucus? The guy is up to no good. He should be asked to leave and caucus with his Republican friends. That will really make sense. What a piece of junk that Joe Lieberman is!
October 29th, 2009 at 2:16 amHow does LIEberman explain that right now, BEFORE health care reform, they’re jacking up their rates astronomically???
He ignores this fact, of course.
Why did the people of Connecticut vote for this unAmerican crook?
October 29th, 2009 at 7:17 am