ThinkFast: October 29, 2009
ThinkFast: October 29, 2009
President Obama traveled to the Dover Air Force Base very early this morning to meet the flag-draped caskets of 18 Americans killed in military service in Afghanistan this week. Reporters witnessed Obama standing at attention and saluting the coffin of Army Sergeant Dale R. Griffin, whose family consented to media coverage.
President Obama “is considering sending large numbers of additional U.S. forces to Afghanistan next year but fewer than his war commander, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, prefers.” Under what one official described as “McChrystal Light,” the General would be given less than the 40,000 forces he asked for with a narrowed mission of “protecting Afghan cities and key infrastructure.”
Speaking in Pakistan yesterday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemned a market bombing that killed more than 100 people. “These attacks on innocent people are cowardly,” she said. “They are not courageous. They are cowardly. If the people behind these attacks were so sure of their beliefs, let them join the political process.”
In a sign that the economy is improving, the Commerce Department reported this morning that “the economy grew at a 3.5 percent pace in the third quarter, the best showing in two years.”
Under pressure from conservative Democrats, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) “has decided to propose a government-run insurance plan that would negotiate rates with doctors and hospitals, rather than using prices set by the government.” Pelosi was unable to get the votes needed to pass a bill with a “robust” public option. The bill would cost “less than the $900 billion ceiling suggested by President Obama.”
Time’s Amy Sullivan reports that the conservative organization Focus on the Family, which is opposing the use of federal funding for health plans that cover abortion, provides its employees health insurance through Principal, an insurance company that covers “abortion services.” Sullivan notes that this means Focus’ employees pay premiums to a company that funds abortions.
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs met with Fox News executive Michael Clemente yesterday at the White House. Though “there were no details” released about the meeting, FishBowlDC reported that a “truce” may have been reached.
“Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) broke down in tears several times on the House floor Wednesday afternoon as he read letters from people who said their loved ones died because they were uninsured.” Calling for Congress to finish their “work of universal health care in America,” Grayson concluded his remarks by saying, “for God’s sake, I look forward to a time when we have finally done our jobs.”
President Obama told federal agencies not to award Recovery Act funds to “contractors with troubled histories.” But the Washington Post reports that “33 federal departments and agencies have awarded more than $1.2 billion in stimulus contracts to at least 30 companies” ranked “as among the most egregious offenders of state and federal laws” according to the Project on Government and Oversight.
And finally: Last month, former House speaker Newt Gingrich retracted an “Entrepreneur of the Year” award he had accidentally bestowed upon Dallas strip club owner Dawn Rizos and refunded $5,000 donation she made to his group, American Solutions for Winning the Future. Rizos called the mix-up “disappointing.” Rizos is instead using that $5,000 to build a shelter for unwanted pit bulls, calling it “Newt’s Nook: A Home For Pit Bulls.” “At first our feelings were hurt,” said Rizos. “But then we figured at least we could make something positive out of his bad manners.” Her office added that Gingrich is always welcome to the strip club.
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This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
“Will the Healthcare bill be posted online?”
October 29th, 2009 at 9:08 amRight before the Patriot Act.
President Obama traveled to the Dover Air Force Base very early this morning to meet the flag-draped caskets of 18 Americans killed in military service in Afghanistan this week. Reporters witnessed Obama standing at attention and saluting the coffin of Army Sergeant Dale R. Griffin, whose family consented to media coverage.
Something George W. Bush NEVER did, the f ucking coward.
President Obama, please don’t send more troops to die in Afghanistan and Iraq.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:11 amIt’s a tradition and sign of respect that the President meet the caskets of the soliders he has sent off to war. Unlike the photo-ops that dominated the Bush administration, I have no doubt Obama sincerely feels for the families who have lost members in service of their country.
The attacks in Pakistan underline just how difficult it is to craft strategy for the region. If we go all out with 40,000 it will certainly embolden the Taliban and other extremist groups to step up attacks. If we withdraw entirely but continue our drone attacks, the Taliban will focus their efforts on the government’s of Afghanistan and Pakistan and, with so much collateral damage from drone attacks, gain additional support from the populace. If we withdraw all troops and end the drone attacks, there’s little to stop the Taliban and others from expanding the conflict into Pakistan…and creating a lot of the same havoc we saw this week in Peshawar. I don’t envy the President and the decision he has to make on this.
3.5% – Rate the economy grew in the third quarter
2 – Years its been since the economy grew at such a rate
0% – Chance the media will cover that story.
Grayson still garners an enormous amount of respect. He’s intelligent, fierce, and well-funded. But it would take one hell of an effort to fight off a primary challenger. The Dems are better off pulling funding from Meek’s Senate bid (if Crist wins the primary, it’s a lost cause) and diverting some funds to Grayson’s campaign.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:11 amHow wonderfully ironic.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:13 amRep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) broke down in tears several times on the House floor Wednesday afternoon as he read letters from people who said their loved ones died because they were uninsured. Calling for Congress to finish their “work of universal health care in America,” Grayson concluded his remarks by saying, “for God’s sake, I look forward to a time when we have finally done our jobs.”
As do more and more Americans.
Good luck.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:15 amPresident Obama traveled to the Dover Air Force Base very early this morning to meet the flag-draped caskets of 18 Americans killed in military service in Afghanistan this week. Reporters witnessed Obama standing at attention and saluting the coffin of Army Sergeant Dale R. Griffin, whose family consented to media coverage.
Let me count the number of times the former CINC paid honor to the slain troops he sent into harms way based on a pack of lies…..
Ummmmm…..ZERO.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:17 amTime’s Amy Sullivan reports that the conservative organization Focus on the Family, which is opposing the use of federal funding for health plans that cover abortion, provides its employees health insurance through Principal, an insurance company that covers “abortion services.” Sullivan notes that this means Focus’ employees pay premiums to a company that funds abortions.
Sweet sweet Schadenfreude.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:17 amThe current healthcare reform proposal has been diluted to the point of irrelevance. I can understand if it will be used as a pathway to greatly expanded coverage and, hopefully, an eventual single payer system but…
A public option that must negotiate its rates on a level playing field, that states can opt out from, and that will only be available to the uninsured is an abomination. A lack of an employer mandate and the inclusion of an individual mandate, while pushing this diluted shit of a system is disgraceful, and, combined with the other elements of the reform package, is only marginally better than doing nothing at all.
One day, our legislature will realize you can’t continue to govern against the interests of the people and hope to have a functional democracy. One day.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:20 amNewt Gingrich retracted an “Entrepreneur of the Year” award he had accidentally bestowed upon Dallas strip club owner Dawn Rizos and refunded $5,000 donation she made to his group…Her office added that Gingrich is always welcome to the strip club.
Here’s hoping the visit would include a lap dance than concluded with a swift kick in the groin.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:20 amFocus on the Family provides its employees health insurance through a company that covers abortion services.
I love the smell of Schadenfreude in the morning.
It smells like…..victory
snark
October 29th, 2009 at 9:22 amI saw this story on AP this morning and posted my thoughts here:
October 29th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Neither here nor there, but interesting with your morning coffee:
October 29th, 2009 at 9:29 amA former South Carolina Asst. Att. Gen. and former Republican state legislator was forced to leave his job with the Att. Gen. office Monday after he was pulled over in a cemetery with an 18-y-old stripper.
The family values of S.C. are certainly a unique interpretation of the phrase.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Yes, backed up.
The Healthcare bill will be posted online. So morons like you can bit ch and moan over a misplaced comma, about concerns about “family values,” the “sanctity of life,” the “sanctity of marriage,” “out of control government spending,” and the intentions of “the founding fathers”
I have your Healthcare bill online right here.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:30 amBackup,
Yes..I do tend to keep my head out of my ass and pay close attention to the world around me. Looking for something specific?
October 29th, 2009 at 9:32 ambackup says:
EnnuiDivine. you seem very informed about current political events.
If you don’t mind, could you share your favorite sources of information?
October 29th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Please do, EnnuiDivine. Please!
October 29th, 2009 at 9:33 amRemember Armstrong Williams – the reporter who was paid $250K by dumbya to write favorable columns about No Child Left Behind?
This was his headline yesterday:
October 29th, 2009 at 9:36 am“Is Republicans Ready to Lead?”
Be it Jesus or the Founding Fathers, any time the right-wing deifies someone, they completely gloss over any bit of information that might be contradictory to their pre-held belief.
1) Jesus cared about the poor. That was pretty much the focus of his teachings, to eschew a life of excessive materialism and find true happiness in God
2) Many of the Founding Fathers despised organized religion. Madison, Washington, Jefferson…all Deists. And slave-owners, too.
So, anytime you hear a rightist claiming Biblical mandate in intolerance or greed, or that the Founding Fathers wanted American to be a Christian nation based on freedom (of anything)…just point and laugh.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:37 amSure. Would you say that you get most of your information from many different sources or do you have a couple main sources that you get most of your information?
If you have a couple that you rely more heavily on, I would like to know what those are.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:38 amZooey,
I work a very tedious job that has me in front a computer for 8 hours a day…and a news junkie. Majored in international politics, read alot, and…unlike Backup, apparently, I keep my head out of my ass.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:39 amAnother thing–Jesus was a communist.
The Bible states very clearly that the Disciples and Jesus shared their belongings, with no one keeping anything for himself. That’s pure communism.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:39 amCustomers of Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina are ticked off at the mail they’ve received recently from the state’s largest insurer.
First, they learned their rates will rise by an average of 11 percent next year.
Next, they opened a slick flier from the insurer urging them to send an enclosed pre-printed, postage-paid note to Sen. Kay Hagan denouncing what the company says is unfair competition that would be imposed by a government-backed insurance plan.
Chutzpah?
October 29th, 2009 at 9:40 amBackup,
First off, my post was informed opinion…mixed with good ‘ol common sense.
I get my news from many sources (google news, CQ, huffington post, reuters..) and I form opinions from what I read. If I post something with fancy figures or quotes, I quote it.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:41 amEnnuiDivine says: The current healthcare reform proposal has been diluted to the point of irrelevance. I can understand if it will be used as a pathway to greatly expanded coverage and, hopefully, an eventual single payer system but…
We have to fire up the grassroots base to go into primary elections as often as necessary and get rid of the Democrats who are selling us out to the Health Insurance Industry.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:41 amEnnuiDivine says:
October 29th, 2009 at 9:39 am
I think I can speak for all of us when I say, anything you can do to help get backup’s head out of his ass would be a great service to the TP community. ;)
October 29th, 2009 at 9:42 amOur childrens isn’t learning and our republicans isn’t ready to lead.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:43 amEnnui, the “link” button allows you to highlight a phrase, then click the “link” button. A window pops up where you can paste the URL of the site where you got the information. It makes it easier for anyone to double-check sources, and adds credibility to a post.
Trolls, as a rule, avoid linking to their sources.
In my opinion, people should not have reflexively voted down backup’s request for links. It’s a valid request. Of course, this applies only to fact-based posts, not to opinion posts like the one you posted at 9 above.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:43 amAs of this morning it appears that the fiscally conservative blue dogs have killed meaningful health care reform in the house by voting for a far more expensive bill that has no real power to set prices for the industry .
October 29th, 2009 at 9:45 amThe fact that this is completely transparent legislating on behalf of the corporations at the expense of the citizenry is lost on no one !
Briseadh na Faire,
The one I posted at 4 was opinion as well. I tend to link (or reference) when I’m posting figures.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:46 ambackup says:
EnnuiDivine. you seem very informed about current political events.
If you don’t mind, could you share your favorite sources of information?
October 29th, 2009 at 9:30 am Add Karma Vote Up | Subtract Karma Vote Down | (-7)
SERIOUSLY.
WHY IS THIS COMMENT VOTED DOWN?
besides, i’d like to know also…
October 29th, 2009 at 9:47 amIt is kind of telling that b-cup was the first to post (obviously waiting until 9:00:01am) without as much as an acknowledgment of the above picture: The PRESIDENT of the United States HONORING our fallen heroes!]
I shall now use the tactics so often regurgitated by the right.
b-cup, why do you hate our troops?
October 29th, 2009 at 9:48 amEnnui, no offense intended – caffine hasn’t kicked in yet. After I hit sumbit, it occurred to me I hadn’t checked to see if you used links in prior posts.
You are obviously well-read, and your insight is appreciated.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:49 amBriseadh na Faire,
No offense taken..and, thank ye.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:50 amInteresting that Obama spends a night at Dover while the last administration tried to convince Americans the place didn’t exist.
http://www.political-buzz.com/
October 29th, 2009 at 9:50 amKaty, many vote backup down reflexively. To me, backup is like the thorn on a rose: pointed, occasionally a pain, but part of that which makes a rose a rose. I see backup not as a troll per se, but as one who plays devil’s advocate on this site. A lot.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:54 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
You can bet Fox News and Republican talking heads will be all over this, all day today and through the weekend.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:57 amBriseadh na Faire. Thanks for you willingness to put up with me. I apologize for being a thorn.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:01 amHe who is the author of war lets loose the whole contagion of Hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death.
Thomas Paine
October 29th, 2009 at 10:03 amJack Bonner, founder of Bonner & Associates, will be at a Congressional commitee hearing this morning trying to explain how all those forged letters that were created by his astroturf lobbying firm were sent to members of Congress.
Now this should be interesting.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:03 ambackup, it has been said, “Making law is like making sausage. You really don’t want to see what goes on in the process.”
We have watched this “sausage making” process being played out all summer. It hasn’t been pretty. But it has been effective in pretty much destroying any chance at meaningful reform of the health insurance industry, as they have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into spreading misinformation and defeating reform.
Now, if you bother to search the government’s websites, you can find every proposed bill online, available to the public. It’s actually been that way for years.
So, snarky comments like, “Will the Healthcare bill be posted online?” merely display your lack of research skills, because the answer is “Yes, all of them already are.”
October 29th, 2009 at 10:07 am37 backup
I agree the campaign rhetoric promised much and reality falls short of the promise.
Healthcare reform has NOT been conducted in secrecy.
Please STOP pushing that latest talking point. It makes you sound like a mindless parrot. (My apologies to real parrots, they are so koool)
ALL, ALL of the major issues in the proposed healthcare reform bill HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED TO DEATH.
In fact, it was a TACTIC suggested by the insurance companies to make sure NOTHING could hurt their interests. In recent week’s, the latest gNOpig talking point was “WE NEED MORE TIME TO READ THE BILL – ABOUT 5 WEEKS” Coincidence?
No. That is just bull. More delaying tactics.
And that is what you are doing. Playing stupid as you often, dare I say everyday, do.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:07 amPresident Obama has a heavy weight on his shoulders deciding on which way to go in Afghanistan. His courage to acknowledge the fallen troops convinces me that he takes them into account as he decides.
Knowing that, I trust his leadership more.
I support President Obama’s leadership in Afghanistan. If he decides we should pull out, maintain the status quo, or send more troops; I personally trust his leadership and support him.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:08 amNo need to apologize for being a thorn. A Devil’s Advocate is necessary to sharpen a debate. But, in my opinion, it would be better if you researched before posting snarky comments. If you post like a troll, you’ll be treated like a troll. And your post at 1 was like a troll; snarky, and factually incorrect.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:13 am40
Seriously Bovine.
Take your head out of Mark Koldy’s a$s for once in your life.
That moron with his comment showed what a partisan piece of gNOig he is. And you are worse for licking his rear.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:13 amMarie says
October 29th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Next, they opened a slick flier from the insurer urging them to send an enclosed pre-printed, postage-paid note to Sen. Kay Hagan denouncing what the company says is unfair competition that would be imposed by a government-backed insurance plan.
_____________________________________________________________
That mailing from Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina has generated a fair amount of letters to the editor here at my local paper.
A number of writers had suggestions on what BCBS could do with their mailing, but I think my favorite letter came from a woman in Durham, with an interesting “take what they give you and work it against them” strategy. Here’s what she said:
*************************************************************
I urge BC/BS subscribers who get this mailing to take the little prepaid card to Hagan, edit it, and send it. Mine reads as follows: “Please do NOT oppose a government-run health insurance plan. We CANNOT meet our health-care challenges without the government competing with the private sector. Tell Senate leaders that North Carolina DOES need government-run insurance.” Postage is prepaid by BC/BS (i.e., you and me). Take advantage of it.
*************************************************************
Senator Kay Hagan, by the way, DOES support health care reform with a public option, but because she is a Blue Dog, she is regarded as someone who can be swayed. I don’t think she will, though.
Our other senator, Richard Burr, is a Republican who’s in so deep to rich special interests there is no hope for him. Thank heavens he’s up for re-election in 2010 — he’s targeted for removal.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:13 amBriseadh na Faire. I’ve been misinformed about a lot of stuff.
If the information is already online, it would seem that some industrious group would consolidate it and post it, if only to overcome the right’s objections of secrecy and haste in the process.
If the information is already out there, proponents of the bill should be directing those who complain about secrecy to a link.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:16 amb-cup:
steps to being better informed:
step 1) Quit watching Faux Snooze, turn off the radio to the Flush Limpdicks, Trannie Coulters, Brillo, Hannity, Savage, Malkin, Ingram, et al
step 2) Tune in to Air America, Democracy Now, Pacifica Radio. Read from Think Progress, Alternet, Crooks & Liars, Huffington Post, Daily Kos, Firedoglake.
step 3) enlightenment will follow
October 29th, 2009 at 10:16 amThe progressive caucus and the public, which has been clamoring for a robust public option , have been sold out as of this morning !
October 29th, 2009 at 10:17 amSingle payer IS reform !!! The public option WAS the compromise and the legislation as proposed by the House which is certain to be watered down further through compromise with the Senate and the opt out provision , is a travesty !!!
The government is owned by corporations and the American people are betrayed , again !
President Obama traveled to the Dover Air Force Base very early this morning to meet the flag-draped caskets of 18 Americans killed in military service in Afghanistan this week.
Was Bush there too?
Oh wait, I forgot. He never did that.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:17 amG’morning, fellow insects and lesbian wannabes!
Did you catch Rachel’s story last night about Traitor Joe, his wife, her board memberships, all the contributions from the health insurance companies, Joe’s Senate record and the DIRECT resulting benefits to the Lieberman’s coffers…?
I was shocked – that sounds blatantly illegal, you know, like up front bribery and quid-pro-quo…!
I think it’s time to investigate Joe Lieberman’s (R-Aetna) finances – he’s a freaking crook.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:20 amNow you are talking to yourself?
Bovine,
Post # 40 and # 51 ARE YOURS.
You idiot, YOU IMB0CILE!
roflmao
October 29th, 2009 at 10:21 amGeorge W. Bush was always too busy with golf or something to even attend ONE
funeral of a soldier killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
He was so unconcerned that he couldn’t even attend one funeral.
Christ, what a slimebag Bush is.
I am so glad that he is no longer in charge.
Why isn’t he facing war crimes charges?
October 29th, 2009 at 10:22 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
johnny dol1ar says:
October 29th, 2009 at 10:25 amHealthcare reform has NOT been conducted in secrecy.
…………………………
The first six months of vistors to the White House remains closed and only the visitor logs after that period are to be released . Pharma made secret deals with the administration during that time .
Twajie’s in da howze!
Be honest, you have a man crush on K.O., dontcha?
October 29th, 2009 at 10:27 amRecently I posted that MSM cannot report any inkling of good news without pointing out the bad.
Economy improves = many still out of work
Jobless numbers down = still a long way to go
Stock market up = where are the jobs
Today brings another example – any good news cannot be taken for what it is, however small, unless we are reminded that Obama hasn’t produced any miracles.
I blame the MSM in part for the serious division in the nation
October 29th, 2009 at 10:29 ambecause they simply foment more dissention without adding anything for balance.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
“George W. Bush was always too busy with golf or something“
Looking for his balls tends to make for a long round.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:39 am61 freeman
I don’t give much credence to conspiracy theories.
Following that logic, if both Pharma and Health insurance companies have made deals to their benefit then passing a bill would be a cinch now.
It is not.
We have “backedup” and the latest talking point seeking to further delay ANY meaningful healthcare bill and kill it by attrition.
If ANY bill is not presented for vote, UP or DOWN, the gNOpigs will be gorging themselves on Thanksgiving and celebrating a MAJOR defeat for President Obama.
That is the reason for the gNOpigs to keep delaying, and delaying, and delaying.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:40 amThe healthcare bill is a huge decision. A trillion dollars and affects a sixth of the economy.
It might be the best thing we’ve ever done as a country, but, because of it’s size, it’s got the potential to go the other way.
Here’s an attempt at an analogy: As an individual, the biggest investment you may make could be buying a house.
When you buy a house and show at the closing, you’re not going to read every document. It would take days and a real estate lawyer. But, you do want the knowledge that what you are signing is set. Is not subject to someone adding something in the future arbitrarily. An although you won’t read it, you want the comfort that someone else has (the people at the Title company, real estate lawyers, closing attorneys, mortgage brokers, etc). You want some assurance that it the transaction goes bad, there is some liable entity that can provide plausible redress.
Do we have that with this process? Will the bill be final when it’s voted on? Will legislators be able to arbitrarily go back and add things later? Who is responsible for what’s in the bill? If the answer is congress or the executive branch, are they capable of redress once we change the system?
I am not saying that this is somehow new. I have no idea how bills have been processed in the past.
What I am saying is, that this is a big bill, with large ramifications. People want a better healthcare system. They also want humane healthcare treatment of those who can’t currently afford it.
But many who may want what the Healthcare bill intends, may be reluctant to support it, if they don’t have the confidence that legislation is set and responsible parties have read it, understand it, and take responsibility for it’s outcome.
Much like many people would be reluctant to go through with a closing, if they showed up and the attorney said; “The documents are back at my office, we’re finalizing some details. We really need to get you into this house. Just sign here.”
October 29th, 2009 at 10:42 amBovine
Don’t be a wuss and entertain me for another hour.
I know that by 8 am pacific you have to go fluff your horsies.
Are you going to stay or are you going to wave the white flag?
October 29th, 2009 at 10:43 amA public option in name only , the American public will have to pay billion more in taxes in exchange for the insult and will be legally mandated to purchase insurance from the industry .
October 29th, 2009 at 10:43 amThe US spends more than twice as much or worse on it’s military than the next nearest fourteen countries combined and nearly as much as the entire planet annually and has for decades !
A soft corporate dictatorship maybe but a democracy …NOT !
75 freeman
Libertarian much?
Let me ask you, are you employed for a living or do you own your own business?
In what state do you live.
Shit – I don’t really care. I am trying to make a point of your ignorance.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:47 amWhen Bush was in office, he drove us into debt, hooked us into two wars, chipped away Constitutional protections, and sliced up the American dream into bigger pieces for the wealthy and corporations.
I wish he had spent more time golfing and less time governing.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:47 am73 Bovine
See how easy that was?
I pegged you last night. It is you Bovine, your stupidity always comes through.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:48 amVery well said, BnF.
b-cup can play a good role here but all too often he gets caught up in his flawed argumentation and turns people off, even people who would be normally disposed to value a reasonable dissenting voice.
This trend towards trollness has accelerated lately, I’ve noticed.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:49 amRant Alert. Ever since Runny Raygun started saluting his military guards, it has annoyed me to see succeeding presidents do it. So, while I all in for Obama, I wish he’d drop this practice. Civilians do not salute.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:49 amDollar,
October 29th, 2009 at 10:50 amit’s a fact the first six months visitor logs during which time deals were made with industry without public input are closed to inspection contrary to promises made by the White House on transparency , call it whatever you like .
It is also a fact that the public ,by a broad margin ,favors both a strong public option and in fact single payer itself .
That’s fair. Working on it.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:52 amFrJackHackett says:
“Civilians do not salute.”
He is the Commander in Chief….
October 29th, 2009 at 10:52 am72 backup
Stop playing Sean KKKlownnity.
No matter how much information is presented to you, you always play stupid.
Just like KKKlownnity. To this day, KKKlownnity still claims NOT TO know enough about President Obama to make a decision.
I have your Healthcare bill online right here.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:53 amGlenda Beck fan murders family because they were too liberal. Shocking!
October 29th, 2009 at 10:59 am82 freeman
Yes, but you are taking a huge leap suggesting that the reason why a Healthcare bill falling short of what you or I would wish is due to “secret negotiations”
The OPEN opposition in any form, kind or indication, is coming from the gNOpigs.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:59 amLet me ask you, are you employed for a living or do you own your own business?
– Wanna buy some eco-jewelry?
October 29th, 2009 at 11:00 am8 a.m. Pacific.
Bovine, time for you to go fluff them horsies.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:00 amFaux worshiper walks into a church and murders a liberal! Shocking!
October 29th, 2009 at 11:05 amYour two party box may be comforting to you dollar but the fact that it needs a constant dismaissal of facts to maintain speaks volumes .
” And what PhRMA agreed to do through those negotiations is to pay about
80 billion dollars over 10 years to help fill up half the donut hole. That’s my understanding. And they are prepared to go forward and to honor that commitment. As I understand it, the commitment from our colleague Senator Nelson would basically double what was negotiated with PhRMA.
And whether you like PhRMA or not — remember I talked earlier today in our opening statements, I talked about four core values, and one of those is the golden rule, treat other people the way I want to be treated?
I’ll tell you — if someone negotiated a deal with me and I agreed to put up say, 80 dollars or 80 million dollars or 80 billion dollars and then you came back and said to me a couple of weeks later — no no, I know you agreed to do 80 billion and I know you were willing to help support through an advertising campaign this particular — not even this particular bill, just the idea of generic health care reform? No, we’re going to double — we’re going to double what you agreed in those negotiations to do. That’s not the way — that’s not what I consider treating people the way I’d want to be treated.
That just doesn’t seem right to me.”
October 29th, 2009 at 11:05 amSenator Carper in front of the Senate finance committee .
Oh and actually I was mistaken , it’s the first 8 months that the Obama administration is keeping secret .
October 29th, 2009 at 11:09 ambackup, this took two seconds to find. Who told you it wasn’t online? http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf
October 29th, 2009 at 11:12 ambackup, here’s a summary at Open Congress.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:14 amWe know freeman, Ron Paul is going to fix everything. /eyeroll
October 29th, 2009 at 11:15 amNo Shane our best hope is a strong progressive caucus voting on their principles over party when appropriate . The first real daylight in the American political landscape in decades !
October 29th, 2009 at 11:19 amdbadass says:
October 29th, 2009 at 11:23 am“Wanna buy some eco-jewelry?”
Do you have any otolith earrings?
92 freeman
“Your two party box”?
Excuse me?
I am a hard core capitalist with an equal side of social responsibility and generous amounts of compassion for my fellow mankind.
I am proud to be called a leftist or progressive or Democrat, because some of the libertarians are just plain nutz.
And you are NUTZ if you think you can stick all of the Healthcare bill shortcomings and your conspiracy theories on the Democrats while overlooking the OPEN, IGNORANT, REFLEXIVE opposition from the gNOpigs.
Let me ask you, Freeman, are you a teabagger?
October 29th, 2009 at 11:24 amnoseeum:
October 29th, 2009 at 11:24 amHow did you know that? Cod…
K Street Whore says:
——————————————————————————–
olbermann viewers down by 63%! LOL!
—
October 29th, 2009 at 11:26 amHow many times do I have to tell you to turn off the TV and go for a back ride? I know you have to change names every few days but still, how dense can one person with a trillion names be?
Shayne. You’re first link is dated July 14th. It’s not what’s on the table today.
As I’ve said before, I’ve been misinformed.
My questions have been generated by this story:
http://www.briefsynopsis.com/node/2968
October 29th, 2009 at 11:26 ambetter make that a bike ride…
October 29th, 2009 at 11:26 amThis article from the Huffpo has more than 1750 comments and a quick perusal will show that the vast majority commenting on it are very angry at the democrats for betraying the well known wishes of the public for real reform .
October 29th, 2009 at 11:37 amThis legislation from the house will be further weakened through reconciliation and most likely have an opt out provision added . What will be in the bill will be a mandate forcing 46 million new customers , who presently can’t afford health insurance to buy it anyway .
As a result of the lack of robustness in the bill American taxpayers will be required to pay billions more for the privilege !
Well if you are so opposed to bikes you could just take a nice walk…
October 29th, 2009 at 11:37 amDid you happen to notice that the source for the article you linked to was Newsmax?
October 29th, 2009 at 11:37 amIf you really wanted to find out if the bill was posted online, why wouldn’t you do an advanced search on Google and specifically search for content from the past week? Is it because you were sent here to derail another thread?
103 backed up
And as we have said, you keep playing stupid.
Over and over your “questions” have been answered.
Then you find some tripe YOU find credible and then come here for us to educate you.
Can you wipe your own nose, backed up? or do you need help?
October 29th, 2009 at 11:38 amfreeman thinks that dems and republicans are the same.
That would explain why we are having a discussion about health care.
That would explain why our economy is no longer headed for the crapper.
I just don’t get people like freeman. I’ve decided that they are compulsive grippers who will never be happy and their childishness keeps them wanting instant gratification in an adult world.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:39 amKstreetMORON
Miss molly did no such thing. YOU however ARE a liar, a fool and an ignorant pile of dogshit. Why dont you just STFU until you grow a brain? We have been patient with your abject stupidity. Showing how much you lie and how undeniably STUPID you are day after day nick after nick. You get pwned you get shown up you get banned you take a new nick and come back with your same lineup of lies and stupidity. Really just STFU
October 29th, 2009 at 11:40 ambackup, your link isn’t dated at all. Here’s the Baucus bill. Google health care online and it’s all there. Or you can just sound like an idiot and parrot the lies from your Newsmax link.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:42 amfreeman?
freeman says it’s all a huge secret and that Obama is as secretive as bush and cheney…..
How do you come to such an irrational conclusion?
October 29th, 2009 at 11:48 amThe republicans are obviously on the wrong side ( big business ) but dollar , aren’t you ignoring the fact that as of today only 20 % of the population will admit to being republican and that the democrats essentially control all branches of government with the possible exception of SCOTUS ?
October 29th, 2009 at 11:48 amYou want to blame Bush perhaps for their shortcomings ?
K-Street Kunt
Do you pull a train?
Or do you take ‘em all at once?
Just askin’
October 29th, 2009 at 11:50 amKstreetMORON
You couldnt hit water from a pier. You are a liar, a punk, a troll and a piece of garbage. Just STFU. Everyone here KNOWS how stupid you are and what a waste of precious oxygen you are
October 29th, 2009 at 11:54 amYes I do. We are still dealing with the mess that bush left. Do you think all that vanishes when he left? Are you serious?
The shortcomings you list are nonesense. Just one example, You said dems are operating in secret just as bush did. Yet the bills are online and have been.
If you want to be taken seriously you have to stick to facts.
There is plenty of frustration, for example the republicans are holding up confirmation of 100 of Obama’s judges. Still, you will find a way to blame the dems.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:56 amYou want to put the Democrats above scrutiny when they ARE the power in Washington today , when only 20% identify with the ” opposition party ” ?
October 29th, 2009 at 11:58 amYou don’t read the thousands of comments posted on other progressive websites which are overwhelmingly angry with the change their getting from the democrats ?
Speaking truth to power isn’t a progressive value , Mr Dollar , when the facts are politically inconvenient for the powerful ?
No, you fail. We know that’s all you are here for.
If you were intelligent enough to say anything you would have done so by now.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:58 amNo, but stick to reality.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:00 pmfreeman, who isn’t blaming Democrats? You want to blame all the Democrats and we want to blame the Democrats that are fighting the change. That’s how we know you’re not a real progressive.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:01 pmYou made the claim, I can find it. Why can’t you? You want it to be a secret so you don’t look? How silly.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:01 pmMaybe it’s parroting, but that idea is out there. You can look at it as an attempt to spread disinformation or an opportunity to address it as an objection.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:02 pmKstreetMORON
My GOD you are so stupid it is sickening. Give a link to a bill she is JUST NOW THINKING OF PROPOSING? One not even close to written yet? Just STFU troll. You are a stupid pile of dogshit with no brain. You are too stupid to do anything but show just how stupid you really are. Dont you ever get tired of being show up for the stupidest person in the room?
October 29th, 2009 at 12:05 pmVoting down 93 just shows an intolerance for facts that are politically inconvenient for those in power . The first 8 months of visitor logs are secret despite a pledge for transparency and the charge of treason by the democrats when Cheney did the same thing .
October 29th, 2009 at 12:05 pmMy position has remained consistent before and after the election because secrets are an anathema to popular rule in a democracy . If your principles change depending on who is in office perhaps you don’t have any .
Looks like Twajie’s latest sockpuppet is yet one more Child Left Behind who, when getting back a book report that earned a D-, decided that it meant he had “hit a nerve” with his teacher…
October 29th, 2009 at 12:08 pmShane I agree that not all democrats are to blame which is why I trumpet my praises for the real progressives in the democratic party , the progressive caucus .
October 29th, 2009 at 12:09 pm113 freeman
Your attempts to paint the democrats as a solid monolith don’t fly.
Democrats are not going on door to door witch hunt chases looking for gNOpiggies and trying to shove ideology down their throats.
The clip you are linking shows what President Obama would like to achieve, NOT what it is being proposed at present time.
Perhaps you need to revise the concept yourself.
You would like to achieve RELEVANCE through your rambling.
At present time, you are NOT proposing any substance toward such goal.
Quite the opposite.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:10 pmfor a whiner who says things that aren’t true.
Stick to reality.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:11 pmAnd yet, it was not the progressive caucus that brought us this discussion on health care. It was Obama who you bash on this very thread.
Reality.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:12 pmI haven’t looked at them yet, but the Huffington post has links to the new healthcare bill:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/29/history-in-the-making-rea_n_338438.html
October 29th, 2009 at 12:12 pm“How did you know that?”
Clumsy Carp told me…
October 29th, 2009 at 12:13 pmfreeman, ron paul would have been a disaster. Give it up.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:13 pmI haven’t looked at them yet, but the Huffington post has links to the new healthcare bill:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/29/history-in-the-making-rea_n_338438.html
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
October 29th, 2009 at 12:14 pmno way backup, don’t tell whore. She don’t want to know.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:15 pmKstreetMORON
YOU are stupid. Fred said no such thing. He said the BILLS were on line. A proposal she is thinking about is NOT the same thing as a BILL. See normal humans understand things like this. Subhuman morons like you are too stupid to understand pretty much anything. Mud is a mystery to someone as stupid as you
October 29th, 2009 at 12:19 pmfreeman, back in September President Obama agreed to put all visitor logs online.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:20 pmJeffy Bovine
What do you say to a nice tri-tip steak with potato salad and rice?
See you in a while.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:21 pmBut not the first 8 months .
October 29th, 2009 at 12:24 pmObama yields on most White House visitor logs
Names of many visitors will go online — but not for first 8 months of term .
Your wrong on this Shane as well as characterizing me as a libertarian .
October 29th, 2009 at 12:26 pmOne of the things that freeman seems not to know(surprise) is that insurance worked just fine befor the newt era of 1995. The republicans deregulated insurance companies and made it where they could raise premiums with no oversight or even review.
Insurance once worked well in America and people did not go bankrupt.
http://www.ins.state.ny.us/press/2009/p0906081.htm
It is this level of republican shame and deregulation that must be addressed on every level.
People like freeman now stand in line condemning dems for not immediatly fixing what it is plain to any thinking person was a crime committed by republicans.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:29 pmfreeman says: I’ve got a hold on Obama’s pants leg and I’m not letting go until I can prove that he’s just a tall bush.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:31 pmfreeman, from your link:
You can beat a dead horse but you can’t make it run.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:36 pmShane , in the interest of intellectual honesty , do you still maintain that the administration opened up the first 8 months of it’s visitor logs ?
October 29th, 2009 at 12:36 pmDo you have short term memory problems bcup? You’re the one who said none of the bills were available online.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:37 pmShayne. Where did I say that?
October 29th, 2009 at 12:42 pmI find that to be quite amusing, coming from you.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pmEnnuiDivine. Thanks
October 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pmI was able to find the visitor logs for the first 8 months on a list of visitors that was requested. Go to this page. All you have to do is ask.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:07 pmYour comment at #1. Or are you saying you knew the bills were online and you were just testing us. This is why you get voted down, FYI.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:09 pmThe only awnser is to bring the troops home. All of them..from Iraq and Afgan. It has come out that the biggest drug lord in the country(Karzai’s brother) has been on the CIA payroll since 2001. Also, One of our Officials just resigned stating he does not know what we are fighting for. Let’s put the pieces together shall we…
We are there to protect the heroin that the Taliban outlawed under their rule. If we let them take over they will again destroy the opium trade and we can not allow that to happen.
So shoot up america..
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/world/asia/28intel.html?_r=2
October 29th, 2009 at 1:11 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/26/AR2009102603394.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2009102603447
Shayne. This morning at 9:00, I wasn’t aware the bill was posted online. I was aware of the story that I linked to that Democrats opposed legislation that required the postings. Conservatives are using that story to imply that Democrats want to pass the healthcare bill in secrecy. I thought to myself that openness in the process would probably be a good thing. So I posted my question.
After we talked about it, I found the Huffington Post story. That story wasn’t posted until today at 11:04, 2 hours after my original post.
I think it’s good the bill is being posted online. It obviously overcomes the conservative objections. I applaud Democrats for doing it.
Additionally, I’m heartened by the ability of the internet to pass on this kind of information directly to people.
I read Al Gore’s book “The Assault on Reason” and agree with Publishers Weekly’s reviewer, in this part:
October 29th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Looks like a red herring to me Shane but when I have more time I will use the link you posted which contradicts several news stories on this , only one of which I posted ,saying the first 8 months are actually closed .
October 29th, 2009 at 1:27 pmI suspect this is a little like trials for the detainees at Guantanamo , in that the administration is willing to give trials to those it knows will be convicted before hand .It reads well and gives an appearance of following the law in some instances and thereby provides political cover for doing the opposite .
The new version of plausible deniability .
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Mr.Duke, we borrowed money to get back to work. We are doing more than borrowing and printing money.
It was your people who borrowed and spent without concern for how it would be paid. Not ours.
Your criticizm is inapropriate considering that you are the people who got us into this mess and now imply that you have solutions.
Thanks for your input, it’s being filed as we speak.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:38 pmYou should know. I smell fish every time you show up.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:41 pmSince when is our money made from trees?
October 29th, 2009 at 1:43 pmFred says:
Mr.Duke, we borrowed money to get back to work. We are doing more than borrowing and printing money.
It was your people who borrowed and spent without concern for how it would be paid. Not ours.
Your criticizm is inapropriate considering that you are the people who got us into this mess and now imply that you have solutions.
Thanks for your input, it’s being filed as we speak.
You have no idea what you are talking about. “you are the people who got us into this mess”. Uh, what? Sir, for your information, I have never paid a penny in credit card interest in my life. I have zero personal debt. None. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. I don’t live beyond my means. Never have. Never will. So kindly do not lump into the group of fiscal fools that buy stuff on credit and just build up more and more debt. Then cry the blues when their life is crap. Not here, kiddo.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:58 pmwhy are you crying? You don’t live in reality. Life should be good for you.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:10 pmThe economy is better? Really?
Governor Deval Patrick announced today he would move to eliminate 2,000 state jobs as part of a plan to address a $600 million budget gap, but he said he would fully protect local aid sent by the state to the cities and towns.
“We will not cut our record investment in our students and our schools. … We will not cut local aid. Local communities are the front line of both our economy and our social life and they are struggling as it is,” he said.
The plan calls for $352 million in cuts across state government. Patrick would make $277 million in cuts across the executive branch and seek authority to make $75 million in additional cuts in other branches of government, including the Legislature, the courts, and county sheriffs.
The personnel reductions would achieve $35 million of the savings, the statement said.
Patrick, who spoke this afternoon at an event in Worcester, also said he would fill part of the budget gap with $60 million in federal stimulus money.
Other cuts included: a $5 million cut in the Quinn Bill education program for police and the elimination of Bunker Hill and Evacuation Day holidays as paid holidays.
“We all know that our nation and our Commonwealth is in the midst of the worst economic recession since the Great Depression,” he said.
Earlier this month, Patrick warned that state jobs could be eliminated unless unions agreed to concessions to help him close the buget gap. He also said he would take a variety of other steps to close the gap, asking executive branch managers to take unpaid furlough days, and examining other money-saving tactics, including consolidating state agencies, farming out some public programs to private agencies, selling surplus state property, and making other service and program cuts.
It is the fourth time within a year that Patrick has been forced to make emergency cuts because tax revenues came in lower than expected. According to the governor, tax revenues for the first quarter of the fiscal year came in $212 million lower than expected.
City and town officials were concerned that the budget cuts could result in slashes to the state’s aid to them, which has already resulted in a $724 million drop, or 12 percent drop in funding they receive, compared with the previous fiscal year.
With people and businesses earning and spending less ina faltering economy, the state government ends up collecting less taxes, which are vital to providing services.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:15 pmPresident Obama told federal agencies not to award Recovery Act funds to “contractors with troubled histories.” But the Washington Post reports that “33 federal departments and agencies have awarded more than $1.2 billion in stimulus contracts to at least 30 companies” ranked “as among the most egregious offenders of state and federal laws” according to the Project on Government and Oversight.
One dunderhead administration after another.
check here
and here
The AP better watch out, or they will be on the WH list as an agenda driven NON news organization. Big Brother IS watching.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:19 pmHow convieniently you forget where it was headed when you were running things.
seen the dow lately, remember when it was at 6000 and headed down? That was then.
Job loss hemoraging is easing, house sales up, gdp improving.
Sucks to be you.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:19 pmkwsventures says:
The economy is better? Really?
And the proceeds to plagiarize his entire post from someone who knows how to construct entire sentences–and gives no credit to the original author or a link to the original.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:26 pmHere’s part of the new reform as posted by Rep. Miller,
“All individuals will generally be required to get coverage, either through their employer or the exchange, or pay a penalty of 2.5 percent of income, subject to a hardship exemption.”
This reform sucks, it’s like when Kennedy said we’d send a man to the moon – and instead they just settled for putting up a satelite.
O.k. I now alot of you disagree with me, but let me explain further. Whatever is finally passed is what we are stuck with. It took over 40 years to gain some type of public option since medicare was passed. How soon before you think we can “modify” our new legislation. To slack off and to majorly compromise was the wrong thing to do. Just wait till you see what health stocks do. Think they’ll tank – I’d bet against that.
This is so totally incomplete – and the public option hasn’t even been defined yet. Just wait.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:41 pmHere freeman, here’s a list of names that the White House was questioned about and all their visits. They are now doing the list regularly but if you are interested in who visited before than ask them and they will look it up. As you can see Karen Ignatius is listed on here and if they were trying to hide something they would have left her off.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:44 pmOops, I forgot the White House link.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:45 pmAnd backup, most of that information was available on Google before you started whining.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:45 pmAgree Rich,
The only folks that are going to leave the table happy in the healthcare debate are the insurance carriers. It is going to screw those wanting the public option, it is going to screw those young healthy people who “risk it” by not electing insurance through their employers, it is going to screw small employers who can’t afford health insurance for their employees at any cost. Whatever those knuckleheads in DC come up with will benefit the pockets of special interests….not WE THE PEOPLE.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:47 pmRich H., with the a$$hole Rethugs and Blue Dogs in the House and Senate and with the lame rules they have it will be amazing to get a public option at all. Once the people see how it works they will be after their reps to make more changes.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:48 pmI give health insurance now to my employees and I can’t hire anybody else because the costs are so high. And they are projected to go so much higher that I won’t be able to afford them much longer. That means we’d have to close the business and find jobs offering insurance. Even with the $12.5k I pay per employee a year I can’t afford to go to the doctor because the 20% kills me. The system as it stands is unsustainable and only people who haven’t had to use it don’t know that.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pmThe only way to really help small business is through single payer because that way the major expense of workman’s comp would be gone. But a public option is the way to start getting expenses down because the insurance industry will never change.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pmShayne,
Once the people see what the option is they’ll be after their rep’s. I agree, but at what point then, do you think we’ll be able to change anything?
I have a small business that was pretty much decimated by the stock market crash (we import/export manufacturing supplies), juyst recently our local gov.’t gave us a business license to move to another location and since we’ve moved in has said we can’t operate here (and we are so close to closing it isn’t funny).
All I can see is how well the government takes care of us. And I’m still pissed at Obama for letting this go to “I’ll see what they come up with.”
Fuc* that. I was raised in a generational democratic family – my parents have been delegates etc… I’ve never missed an election for anything.
If Kucinich wants to start another party I’m good with that.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:58 pmAs long as I’m in a pissy mood (and I am), I just saw where the 700b+ stimulus created 30,000 jobs. They must be some high paying jobs.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:01 pmin response to #28 Briseadh na Faire says:
In my opinion, people should not have reflexively voted down backup’s request for links.
In my opinion.. Backup should be voted down on anything he/she/it ever says based on knowledge of he/she/it’s character.
If Backup posed a comment saying ‘liberals are neato’ or ‘Support Health Care Reform’ or anything that I might have no problem whatsoever with.. I would only consider it baiting or sarcasm.. or a mixture of the two.
As far as Backup requesting links.. that should be voted down simply on the principle that backup is using a double standard and also because it was an insinuation of a lack of EnnuiDivine’s credibility.. credibility is earned. Sources which have earned trust do not require continual fact checking.. which is why if FOX news says ‘the’.. I need to see their source.. they probably were lying – and the actual story was ‘and’.
I support backup downrating simply on principle.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:51 pmRich H Says:
As long as I’m in a pissy mood (and I am), I just saw where the 700b+ stimulus created 30,000 jobs. They must be some high paying jobs.
Not much more than a Wall Street Exec bonus.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pmHi lux,
I can’t help but think that money could have been much better spent.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:03 pmYou finally told the truth. When will you become “aware?”
October 29th, 2009 at 5:02 pmkwsventures,
If this is not your company, listed below, then I have a feeling they would like for you to stop using their company name.
KWS Ventures
5247 Mare Creek Dr
Crestview, FL 32539-8887(Fort Walton Beach, FL Metro Area)
Phone: (850) 423-0606
Care to comment and tell the truth for a change?
October 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pmNed Flanders was right.
Insurance is just another form of gambling.
Any more rate increases, and I’m folding.
Fcuk ‘em.
Insurance is a scam, we are all pawns.
October 29th, 2009 at 5:13 pmlux. I think you misunderstood.
I recognized EnnuiDivine’s relative mastery of political subjects and sincerely wanted to know how he came by the knowledge.
Go back and take another look.
October 29th, 2009 at 5:55 pm