Daily Show Heckled, Attacked For Airing Interview With Leader Of Palestinian Nonviolent Democratic Movement
Daily Show Heckled, Attacked For Airing Interview With Leader Of Palestinian Nonviolent Democratic Movement
This past Wednesday, The Daily Show aired an interview with Anna Baltzer, a Jewish American peace activist and author of Witness in Palestine: A Jewish American Woman in the Occupied Territories, and Dr. Mustafa Barghouti, a leading figure in the Palestinian democratic and nonviolent movement for peace.
At the beginning of the interview, Barghouti told Stewart that he thinks the “Jewish people have been in the avante garde of struggling for justice…and democracy,” and concluded that it was “natural” for Palestinians like himself and Jewish activitists like Baltzer to work together for a just resolution of the conflict.
Barghouti explained his experience as a Palestinian growing up under occupation. “It’s Palestinians who have been subjected to the longest occupation in modern history and a system of segregation that is totally unjust,” he said. This prompted a heckler from the crowd to yell, “Liar!” — the first heckling in The Daily Show’s 11-year existence. Stewart responded by joking, “Apparently Joe Wilson is with us tonight.” Watch it:
Following their joint appearance, Baltzer revealed in an open letter that “the show was overwhelmed with angry emails and phone calls prior to the appearance, and up until the last minute it seemed like they might cancel. … The entire staff were very nervous and may come to regret the monumental decision (and not make it again) as they will surely be inundated now that the show has aired.”
While some may feel that views like those of Barghouti should not be aired, the truth is Barghouti represents a Palestinian voice for nonviolence and democracy that is valuable to voice on U.S. airwaves. Despite the suffering he has endured living under occupation — he has been imprisoned and beaten several times for taking part in demonstrations and sit-ins — he has been a leading voice for nonviolent resistance and democratic reform, crafting his philosophy after that of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Barghouti’s many accomplishments include founding a leading health relief NGO, removing anti-Semitic programs from the Palestinian airwaves, and running as an independent presidential candidate offering a “democratic and independent ‘third way’ for the large majority of silent and unrepresented Palestinian voters, who favour neither the autocracy and corruption of the governing Fatah party, nor the fundamentalism of Hamas.”
Baltzer is urging viewers who appreciate Stewart’s fortitude in bringing them on to thank him and the producers of The Daily Show by using the show’s contact form here.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Nonviolence? Democratic Movement?
Oh, the horror…..
October 30th, 2009 at 12:35 pmSince when is it BAD to hear opposing sides of view? That was the whole Bush stragety. In order to solve conflict, you must engage in diologue. that’s called Diplomacy.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:38 pmIf only both sides had leaders as calm, rational, intelligent, and empathetic as Baltzer and Barghouti.
Netanyahu is no different than our neo-cons, ratcheting up hateful rhetoric and playing on fears and pseudo-religious nonsense to stay in power.
Abbas is old and corrupt, too weak and beholden to internal conflicts to prevent factions like Hamas from wreaking havoc and de-railing the stability of the Palestinians territories.
You won’t see peace until fresh (and rational) leadership is seen on both sides. And, no, Hamas does not count as “rational”. Neither does Yisrael Beiteinu. Any political party that denies the rights of the other to the pre-67 borders/calls for destruction or ethnic cleansing, is not working in the best interests of the populace.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:38 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Also, TP, don’t forget there are plenty that would rather have Baltzer muzzled as well. Look at the furor AIPAC and other hawks put up when J Street arose.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:39 pmI’m not sure that having one confused jerk in the audience deserves this much attention. Stewart dispatched him with aplomb (I would have used a plum pie – right in the face), and the guests continued without even acknowledging it.
I think Stewart’s takedown of Fox News was much more newsworthy. He brilliantly (and hilariously) smashed the fiction that Fox is a news network.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:40 pm@4, What the Hell are you talking about?
October 30th, 2009 at 12:41 pmMark,
Totally. Stewart’s takedown should be the thing of legends…if only the MSM would cover it. I guess they’re still hurting from the damage he did to CNN by single-handedly removing Crossfire from the airwaves.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:42 pmStewart has interviewed so many criminal liars on his show and yet sadly the first heckling is aimed at one of the leading Palestinian voices for peace, against terrorism and corruption for what? For speaking the truth?
Stewart handled it well though.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:43 pmI don’t think one heckler is a big deal, but the torrent of angry phone calls and emails is worth taking note of.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:44 pmgod forbid americans should hear the palestinian side of the story, they should be reminded that it’s american taxpayers who have funded the longest occupation in history to the tune of $10 Billion dollars per year
October 30th, 2009 at 12:45 pm@7: I think that was sarcasm.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:45 pm@10, You idiot. YOUNG people love Stewart and Colbert. They get their news from them. And for the record, Faux News ISN’T news. They admitted it themselves.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:46 pmAnd yet he speaks more truth than the whole MSM combined. Kind of sad don’t you think?
October 30th, 2009 at 12:47 pm10 – How does “Red Eye” do vs. TDS in the ratings?
..or is that the one ratings comparison you haven’t done?
gutfeld…foxnews…end.
dummy.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:47 pmGo to TheZoo for the extended interview. It’s quite excellent.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:48 pmisrael can do no wrong apparently. (still)
October 30th, 2009 at 12:49 pmGet ready to be called anti-semites. They can’t argue reality so they must go for the emotional throat.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:51 pmIas this woman a card carrying member of hamas?
No. Why would she be? She’s Jewish American, and Hamas is anti-Jewish, anti-Israel by principle.
What the hell is it with you and non-sequiteurs?
October 30th, 2009 at 12:51 pmIf you disagree with someone’s views, or just don’t see things the way they do, they aren’t necessarily lying.
I think we need to accommodate for the reality that two people can view a particular issue differently. If we chalk that difference up merely to the other person being dishonest, we quit attempting to understand their position. And a better understanding is not achieved.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:51 pmtroll – unless you are Jewish, just STFU,
and watch some “Red Eye” on your tivo.
dummy.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:53 pmYou’ll have to excuse Twajie. His synapses don’t all fire properly.
In fact, I think the only area of his brain that functions as designed is the amygdala.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:54 pm(didn’t mean you, captain – hell – i can’t even tell what you’re saying…)
October 30th, 2009 at 12:54 pmThanks for your concern, b-cup.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:54 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
You’ll have to excuse Twajie. His synapses don’t all fire properly.
In fact, I think the only area of his brain that functions as designed is the amygdala.
I’m noticing that. Plus his CAMERA link is complete biased, pro-Israel anti-anyone-who-even-thinks-a-negative-thought-about-Israel conservative site. Jeez.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:55 pmI always forget which side of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict I’m supposed to come down on as a liberal. American Jews are largely liberal, I think, so score one for Israel. But the neo-cons are pro-Israel, so that should give me pause. I like Obama, who the kooks on the right say is a Muslim, so score one for them, I guess.
I wish they’d just come to some agreement so I’d stop having to think so much.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:56 pmY’know, if you took “palenstine” and “Israel” out of the discussion, nothing anyone said at that table would be at all controversial.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:56 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
tom baker: “troll – unless you are Jewish, just STFU”
What? If you’re Jewish, you get a free pass to be an a-hole? I don’t think so.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:01 pmNiether. They have both committed atrocities.
But calm reasonable peaceful folk like these seem to be on the right track. It’s individual actors who are taking the right approach that should be supported.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:01 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
K Street Whore says:
Plagiarizing again, troll? Your grasp of pretty much everything obviously makes it impossible for you to explain anything in your own words — that and your obvious inability to form coherent thoughts at all.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:02 pmThe hypocrisy of many who rail about the necessity of the freedom of speech are often the first to try and derail it.
Mind numbing it is.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:03 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
imspice says: I always forget which side of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict I’m supposed to come down on as a
liberal.If we are going to play the role of peacemakers then we should come down on neither side. I altered your post a bit, hope you dont mind =)
October 30th, 2009 at 1:06 pmI meant to put human in place of liberal. My bad.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:07 pmLOL PD
October 30th, 2009 at 1:08 pmcamera also denies this real fact:
so camera is another faux outlet that denies anyone a point of view except them. How democratic.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:08 pmHey, Doug Hoffman…
Don’t you want to stimulate the economy by buying candy?
October 30th, 2009 at 1:09 pm42, Yes you are fu(kface.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:10 pmI am a Jew. And to K Street Whore and any other trolls who believe Israel to be infallible, yemach shmo ve-zichro.
Israel is not infallible. Its military has committed heinous acts upon a native population.
Nor is Israel the Fourth Reich. Comparisons to Nazi Germany are a grave insult to those who have lost relatives in the Holocaust.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:11 pmBaltzer’s rhetoric and writing are a window on the emerging nexus between the far-left and the Islamic extremists of Hamas.
Not, KSW, its not. You dont get to decide who is what. I am a moderate and dont support any violent means or extremist groups by ANY means. Put down your projectionist pencil and stop trying to stick figure me into your imagination.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:11 pm45, You just did it again @sshole. Wanna talk to my lawyers?
October 30th, 2009 at 1:12 pmK Street Whore says:
Plagiarizing again, troll?
Nope.
You claim to be Steve Stotsky? If so, why can’t you write simple sentences, not to mention entire paragraphs?
October 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pmK Street CrackWhore says:
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
stewart….comedy channel….end.
K Street CrackWhore…. sniveling little pussy…. end.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:14 pmIs Doug H the new Darryl????????
October 30th, 2009 at 1:15 pmCuriously Baltzer’s blog falls silent between April 29, 2005 and Jan 26, 2007, -=KSW=-
What I find curious is your tireless efforts to inject your crystal ball inanity into things that have no correlation
October 30th, 2009 at 1:16 pmDoug Hoffman says:
Who TF voted me down?!
You mean TP? Don’t you fundies know how to read?
October 30th, 2009 at 1:16 pmWhat a crime that TDS allowed guests that have a different view than we are always hearing from the MSM. That is what makes TDS great. We are allowed to hear opposing points of view.
I often cringe when Bad Billy Kristol is a guest but Jon has the ability (balls) to stand up to the idiots. Not something one sees on MSM.
Besides, Ms. Baltzer is pretty Hot.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:17 pmDoug Hoffman says:
Who TF voted me down?!
I think the question is who ever voted you up?
October 30th, 2009 at 1:18 pmDid i miss something? I went to get a sandwich and all hell broke loose.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:18 pmDoug’s holding out for All Saint’s Day.
Happy Dia De los Muertos, Doug Huffyman.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:19 pmSo when did you start being wrong all the time?
October 30th, 2009 at 1:21 pmI am a Jew. And to K Street Whore and any other trolls who believe Israel to be infallible, yemach shmo ve-zichro.
Israel is not infallible. Its military has committed heinous acts upon a native population.
Nor is Israel the Fourth Reich. Comparisons to Nazi Germany are a grave insult to those who have lost relatives in the Holocaust.
This, completely. Israel isn’t perfect, and it’s had an atrocious record overall in terms in rights violations. But comparing it to Hitler’s Germany is just moronic – it isn’t in the same state, much less in the same room, as that regime.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:22 pmChristians, Jews and Muslims – as far as I’m concerned, the human race would have been a lot better off without any of them.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:23 pmLook, just because Stewart has people on his show doesnt mean he agrees with their ideology. If I go and read the Koran, or the Talmud, does that mean I am all the sudden Jewish or Muslim?
No, it doesnt. It means that I want to read things for myself and see what they are about what the ideologies are. I commend Stewart for his taking the position that we have freedom of speech. Nowhere is it written that we have to have opposing viewpoints on at the same time [Which usually results in overtalking making it difficult to listen to]
October 30th, 2009 at 1:23 pmCuriously Baltzer’s blog falls silent between April 29, 2005 and Jan 26, 2007, -=KSW=-
I didn’t write in my own blog for over a year because I was busy with work and didn’t care to write in it.
Or does that automatically make me a terrorist?
October 30th, 2009 at 1:24 pm@64, I guess you want a world full of nobody? Indulge me. What is your faith?
October 30th, 2009 at 1:25 pmIs the whore saying that no programs on tv should be allowed to air people who may say baseless things? What would happen to Dick Morris, Ann Coulter, Orly Taitz and just about 80% of the other Fox guests?
Stewart gave these people a forum. He didn’t sign up and switch his show over to one side or the other.
The Daily Show is one of the few programs I don’t like to miss. They recap recent stories with a sarcastic slant and put the “WTF” stamp on so much of the BS that goes on.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:27 pmIsrael has a right to defend itself, Israel does not have a right to maintain a concentration camp.
Make of it what you will.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pmWhat these people seem to be saying, religion aside, is cut the crap out and coexist already its been going on for decades and will continue that way until ALL parties just say, this isnt helping us, this isnt good for our people, for our kids, for the world, we are not being good role models by constantly fighting this is not sustainable.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pmNews flash, not all Jewish people believe Israel’s behavior is always justified. I bet not even all Israelis believe that. Most Jews in this country are Democrats and the neoconservative Jews just love them some war. And the rest of the neocon fundamentalists don’t care about Jews they just want to make it easier for them to steal the place for themselves.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pmI believe it’s “sweeps week” and Steward seems to be intentionally stirring up controversy all of a sudden.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:33 pmBesides, Ms. Baltzer is pretty Hot.
I agree she does please the eye but I think I like her mind better.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:33 pmNiner @35 – of course not. joe lieberman, for instance, is an as*hole. as*holism is an equal-opportunity phenomenon.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:34 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Or does that automatically make me a terrorist? -Papirini
Stick around Papirini KWS thinks just about everyone is a terrorist, except himself. He is Wycoffian that way.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:37 pmMy initial thought was that Ms. Baltzer was fantastic. I wasn’t going to say anything, but since it was brought up, I’ll concur.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:37 pmK Street CrackWhore…. sniveling little pussy…. end.
—- Indeed and it will be rubbed in their little poser face relentlessly until they grow a pair or more likely choose the next name…
October 30th, 2009 at 1:40 pmK Street Whore says:
Doubtful, you on the other had are a card carrying member of idiocy.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:43 pmIt goes like this
First stick your imagination on another [You are a terrorist]
Then act like your pin the ignorance on another is factual.
Then that gives rational for your hatred.
Then that gives rational for you to react with violence. To cure the problem your imagination created with force.
The say something like ‘You made me hate you’
Troll 101
October 30th, 2009 at 1:43 pmhad = hand @ 79. Damn fingers aren’t playing nice today.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:44 pmI’d be careful with that. At worst, Gaza and parts of the West Bank have become internment camps. The term “concentration camp” took on a very different connotation post WWII. Israelis are looking to contain the Palestinian population, not execute them.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:49 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
PD: “@64, I guess you want a world full of nobody? Indulge me. What is your faith?”
I lost my faith a long time ago and I’m not getting it back. I want a world full of rational people. People don’t need faith to be somebody. I don’t want faith. I want hope. Faith is an intellectual trap. It doesn’t matter how much faith you have – things are going to happen and no amount of faith will matter. But, you can hope for the best and you can live your life in a rational manner. Religion is not rational and even with the best of intentions, it encourages people to depend on something which cannot be defined or explained. Religion in a modern world leads to cognitive dissonance which tends to make people angry and confused.
It’s not that I don’t understand. I was raised in a Christian family; went to church every Sunday; I’ve read the Bible; I sang in the choir, played the church organ, went to Sunday school, etc. etc. etc. Even as a child, I couldn’t accept that certain righteous people were going to something like hell when they were good Buddhists or good Hindus. That just didn’t make sense to me ant that was the beginning of my loss of faith.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:54 pmI sent along a thank you to The Daily Show for having both Ms. Balzer and Dr. Barghouti on.
It gets discouraging watching the situation over there but we can’t give up pushing for peace.
My mother used to work with a Palestinian who’d been raised in a refugee camp in Eqypt and she called him ‘the terrorist’ and I asked her why. All she could basically say was that he was “so angry!” – you should have seen her face when I told her that I would have been too if I’d gone through what he’d gone through, what with growing up in a refugee camp and feeling as though he doesn’t belong anywhere.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:54 pmor save the money to spend on healthcare.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:55 pmbackup says:
why don’t we relocate the Taliban (as well as anyone else that wants to fight a holy war) to Jerusalem.
Sure, all that’s needed is an army of oompa-loompas and several squadrons of rainbow-eating candy-pooping magical unicorns to relocate (willingly or unwillingly) several million people to Jerusalem.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:57 pmHey, Doug Hoffmann, Central Casting called – they need a pencil-necked little creep like you to play a panty-stealing fetishist…
October 30th, 2009 at 1:57 pmLuis. I’m not saying there wouldn’t be some issues to iron out.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:59 pm83 backed up
Seriously, sometimes you say things that seem half reasonable and I’ve voted you up.
Perhaps I should just reflexively vote you down, because right after you seem coherent, you come out and say some of the stupidest things.
I will take it one by one, as not to overload your sensitivity.
“but if we are going to nation build and people are going to fight over the holy land anyway”
Who in the Fox world of newclowns decided WE are supposed to “nation build”
“Holy land” – don’t even get me started on that one.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:01 pmbased on what? Palestinian deaths?
October 30th, 2009 at 2:01 pmbackup says:
Luis. I’m not saying there wouldn’t be some issues to iron out.
Yeah. Dealing with the Oompa-Loompa’s Union and toilet-training the unicorns.
Actually, I’ve gotta give it to you, you’re not one of the “nuke them til they glow” crowd, and that’s something positive.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:01 pmOkay, the pig in me must come out…Anna Baltzer is hot
October 30th, 2009 at 2:02 pmIn Auschwitz, Dachau, Belzen-Bergen…inmates were tortured, vivisected, gassed, shot, stabbed, burned for the sole point of exterminating the populace.
Israel in pre-67 borders in 20% Arab. If they were truly intent on committing acts of genocide, they would’ve rounded up and executed that 20% long ago. Hence, “concentration camp” isn’t the term you’re looking for.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:05 pmjohnny. My relocation plan is tongue-in-cheek and arguably in bad taste.
But, I advocate this:
http://randomviewpoints.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/coexist1.jpg
It seems to me, that the people in this world driving intolerance in the name of religion, are making it significantly worse for the rest of us.
(That obviously includes the American Christian fundamentalists)
Sometimes, it frustrating enough to advocate they all go to one place and hash it out, so the rest of us don’t have to deal with it.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:06 pm95. Backup,
Hear hear.
The Taliban-Israeli Hawk-Hamas battle royale would therefore have to include the RSS, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the Westboro Baptist Church…some odd Buddhist sect that completely misrepresents the teachings of Siddharta to deem non-believers wicked (there are doubtlessly plenty out there, though none to mind immediately).
October 30th, 2009 at 2:11 pmStick around Papirini KWS thinks just about everyone is a terrorist, except himself. He is Wycoffian that way.
Aw, poo. I’m so very sad that thinks I am such a bad person KWS, the person I want to impress the most in life, who is oh so witty and original with everything they write and does everything he does with such talent, clear-headedness and…and…
…
*actually chortling at this*
October 30th, 2009 at 2:11 pmEnnuiDevine: “Hence, “concentration camp” isn’t the term you’re looking for.”
How about barb-wired ghetto with armed guards. Does that work?
October 30th, 2009 at 2:12 pmIt’s a bit more apt to describe parts of the Palestinian territories, yeah.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:16 pmEnnuiDivine
I’m sorry if concentration camp offends. Many countries besides Germany have used them. They are usually not like Germanies in the most atrocious terms but they are very similar to others who’s purpose is to wipe out a populace.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html
Now, you gotta look at that last set of data and wonder, why?
October 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pmI tend to think of Gaza as being somewhat like a prison camp, what with the borders so often being closed and the people locked inside.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pm95 backed up
I gave you one vote up this post, although it is only worth 1/2.
“They” already have “their place”
“They” have been telling “us” to get the F-OUT for centuries.
But many of “us” believe “we” know better. “We” have to go teach them Chimpocracy and freedumbs.
The middle east conflicts were inherited from the European imperialistic ashes. Only dumbfox like the newclowns bought them and still believe they can continue a FAILED ideology.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pmFred,
My point being is that Israel is not trying to completely eliminate the Arab population. The use of massively disproportional response is against international law, but it’s not an attempt to completely eliminate the population.
Israel still has yet to learn that they can’t solve the conflict through force and are largely stuck in the same mentality seen from the 1940s-1960s (when they, under the UN plan, declared independence and were attacked by every Arab country in the Middle East). Their strategy has never been to rid the area of Arabs; it’s unfortunate that the blowback from their tactics leave so many collateral deaths.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:27 pmHe scares the crap out of fascists who love their war machine.
Peace = No war profits
October 30th, 2009 at 2:28 pmEnnuiDivine, so, let’s just call this a difference of opinion?
I’m sorry, when I see a modern military might fighting people with rocks and bottles on the land of the people throwing rocks, I can’t help but see that something is terribly wrong with it.
If you want to pick nits, go ahead. In my eyes an atrocity is an atrocity. There are no degrees of said.
All power and control over the circumstances lie in Israel’s hands and Palesinians die at thier will.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:32 pmFair enough.
The only hesitation I would have is the consideration of the future of the targets of fundamentalist intolerance of the region.
When we leave, what will be ramifications for the women, homosexuals, advocates of religious tolerance and free speech, etc?
And should we care?
October 30th, 2009 at 2:34 pm@82. EnnuiDivine says: “Fred says: Israel has a right to defend itself, Israel does not have a right to maintain a concentration camp. Make of it what you will.” I’d be careful with that. At worst, Gaza and parts of the West Bank have become internment camps. The term “concentration camp” took on a very different connotation post WWII. Israelis are looking to contain the Palestinian population, not execute them. October 30th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Good points, EnnuiD, and it’s weird to see all that in one spot. The folks who gave us the term ‘concentration camp’ were the Brits, who coined the term during the Boer War in South Africa. The British Army interned Boer non-combatants in ‘concentration camps’ to keep them from being able to support the Boer insurgents.
And of course, the Brits kind of gave the world the Israeli-Palestinian problem too, when they produced the Balfour Declaration and followed up with the (more-or-less) lenient interwar (WW I and II) emigration policy for European Zionists moving into Palestine.
And then they walked away as things went out of control in ‘47-’48. Perfidious Albion … (snark)
Having said all that, it is the Israelis and Palestinians who are responsible for the mess now, and neither group has the moral or ethical high ground any more (if they ever did).
The Israelis have had an opportunity since 1967 to support democratic, or at least non-violent Palestinians. So what did they do; turn Gaza and the West Bank into defacto concentration camps, along with a bunch of other nastiness.
And has been said more than once, the Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance. The Palestinians haven’t helped themselves by doing paramilitary murder and haven’t done much to support anyone in their community who was willing to talk the community out of the Israeli box, instead of burning down the box with themselves inside.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:36 pmBy the way Ennui, If Palistinians are Arabs then so are Jews.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:37 pmI have to agree with backup. Reverend Wallace said very much the same thing in his sermon to us last week. Separate your mind from the ministry of hate and let these words of wisdom take purchase upon your soul. Hallelujah Christ
October 30th, 2009 at 2:38 pmDidn’t you know Freedom of Speech only applies to those who agree with you? Everyone else should be muzzled and silenced.
Jon Stewart, don’t you dare give in to these idiots. Once you head down the slippery slope of not speaking the truth because someone doesn’t like it, there’s no turning back.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:38 pmFred says:
By the way Ennui, If Palistinians are Arabs then so are Jews.
They’re both “semitic” people. Israelis document their origins as the city of “Ur” in what is now Iraq.
Palestinians are mostly Jews that converted to Christianity and Islam. They have more DNA markers of being Jewish, than European Jews do.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:39 pmFred,
Yeah, truce sounds about right. And both Baltzer and Barghouti made the point abundantly clear: before the Balfour Declaration, Jews and Arabs coexisted just fine…
October 30th, 2009 at 2:40 pmjust the bleepn facts says
Jews and Arabs are ‘genetic brothers’
October 30th, 2009 at 2:42 pmbackup says:
Fair enough.
The only hesitation I would have is the consideration of the future of the targets of fundamentalist intolerance of the region.
Warfare has made them more intolerant.
backup says:
When we leave, what will be ramifications for the women, homosexuals, advocates of religious tolerance and free speech, etc?
Homosexuals and women are mistreated more in Iraq today than before we invaded. Afghanistan is even worse in many parts now than before.
We missed our chance with Afghanistan with Bush the village idiot sent us into Iraq instead of stabilizing the country out of the gate.
backup says:
And should we care?
Should we do the wrong thing because we care?
Most of those countries are where they are because of past US/CIA interventions that overthrew democratically elected governments because we were afraid they were “commies”. That’s what happened in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
I can see you’re as dumb and uninformed as always b-crappy.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:43 pmName a real chance they have been given.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:44 pmFred says:
just the bleepn facts says
Jews and Arabs are ‘genetic brothers’
That’s only part of the story. When identifying Jewish heritage, there are specific markers distinctive to Jews. Those markers are more common in Palestinian than in the diaspora Jews. Palestinians are Jews, which is why this is nothing more than a religious war among the Jews stayed and those that left. It is ridiculous at best, and no different than a gang war in a housing project.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:46 pm“Besides, Ms. Baltzer is pretty Hot.
I agree she does please the eye but I think I like her mind better.”
Xisithrus. I agree with your mind comment. I just had to compliment Ms. Baltzer’s gorgeousness.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:47 pmVirtual Pebble says:
And has been said more than once, the Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance.
It would be fair to state this is the same for Israel.
What else can one expect from a group that refuses to acknowledge that they are stealing land from other Jews and that they must do this so the “Messiah” comes. Delusion makes people crazy, and Israel is a nation of crazy all around.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:47 pmIsraelis don’t want to co-exist, because they lose either way. They want to drive Palestinians out of the territories.
If they create one nation, it can’t be a Democracy because there are more Palestinians.
If they create two nations, the Messiah won’t come so the fundies won’t go along.
It’s a lose lose for a nation built on Zionism.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:49 pmApologies to MissMolly, EnnuiDevine, PD and anyone else here put off by my uncharitable remarks about religion.
I had been listening to a Democratic Representative who was saying he could get 41 Democrats to vote against Pelosi’s health care bill because he thought there was a possible way in which it would allow federal money to pay for abortions. At the time, I thought, “ok that tears it.”
October 30th, 2009 at 3:02 pm@115. Fred says: Virtual Pebble says:
And has been said more than once, the Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance. Name a real chance they have been given. October 30th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Fred, for starters, in 1967 they could have started a non-violent movement for freedom, but instead, the hotheads with guns were allowed to rule the day. In fact, a non-violent movement could have been started in ‘49 to work for reparations from the Israeli side and to get freedom from Jordan in the West Bank and from Egypt in Gaza. It’s not like non-violent movements were completely unknown to people in that period.
And the Palestinian ‘establishment’ has been missing chances in negotiations since the PLO was allowed back and became the Palestinian Authority. I’m not saying they always had good choices in front of them, but they had the opportunity to move the process forward and chose recalcitrance instead. The same thing can be said of the Israeli negotiators; they’ve screwed the pooch more than once.
And the armed forces on both side have been more trigger happy than helpful. When they aren’t provoking a fight, they’re overreacting to one…
October 30th, 2009 at 3:05 pmHis takedown of Fox News today was flawed; he ignored Shep, the ‘magic reasonable man’ of FN.
No show should be bombarded with criticism mail unless it airs a factually incorrect or very slanted story. I hope for a better political culture in the near future, but that may be impossible if education is as important for a healthy political culture as I assume it is.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:08 pmbleepn. your history is reasonable. Looking forward, are you saying that if the West pulls out of the Middle East, tolerance for the groups I mentioned will improve?
October 30th, 2009 at 3:08 pmbackup says:
bleepn. your history is reasonable. Looking forward, are you saying that if the West pulls out of the Middle East, tolerance for the groups I mentioned will improve?
It’s western “interference” that caused the problem. At this point it’s hard to say what if anything will fix this broken situation.
I’m hard pressed to see how further meddling will improve it, when the problem is based on meddling.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:10 pmSven Ortmann says:
His takedown of Fox News today was flawed
Your existence is flawed, and no one cares what you think.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:11 pmI will just point you to the title and substance of this thread. It exemplifies reaction to any peaceful attempt for anyone supporting Palistine’s struggle.
Remember, there are Palestinians with house keys to family homes that Israelies are now living in. How do you respond peacefully to that?
October 30th, 2009 at 3:11 pmVirtual Pebble says:
Fred, for starters, in 1967 they could have started a non-violent movement for freedom, but instead, the hotheads with guns were allowed to rule the day.
Foreigners invade your home, is your first thought non-violence?
Don’t be dense.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:12 pmAnnie I do not steal panties. Hey, that rhymes! Sort of.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:12 pmSven Ortmann says:
No show should be bombarded with criticism mail unless it airs a factually incorrect or very slanted story.
Fox does this daily, and argues they are doing “opinion” journalism which doesn’t require either honesty or “facts”.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:13 pmVirtual, Consider how Jimmy Carter is treated. He is a peaceful man but he is called terrible names because he fights for justice in this situation and justice is not what Israel is looking for.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:15 pmDoug Hoffman says:
No, you probably wear them as a hat under the tin foil… ZZZzzz…
October 30th, 2009 at 3:16 pmFred: “How do you respond peacefully to that?”
Sorry, but I think you know as well as anyone that at any time during the last 40 years, they could have responded with the time-honored methods of Ghandi or King. They could have sat down in the middle of the streets and proceeded to be abused. The world would have been on their side.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:19 pmThey tried it when Carter was in office. It worked for a while until Isreali radicals killed yitzhak rabin.
The world is on their side. The only nation supporting Israel is the US. There are over 150 UN Sacntions against Israel.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:27 pmbesides niner, peaceful resistance requires organization. They are not allowed to organize. It’s a ghetto where Isreal decides.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:34 pmNinerFan says:
Fred: “How do you respond peacefully to that?”
Sorry, but I think you know as well as anyone that at any time during the last 40 years, they could have responded with the time-honored methods of Ghandi or King.
They did under Carter, then under the Oslow accord. Each time Israeli radical right wing elements refused to honor the path to peace.
NinerFan says:
They could have sat down in the middle of the streets and proceeded to be abused. The world would have been on their side.
They have done this, and the world is enough on their side to produce over 150 UN sanctions. The US blocks all fair treatment of the Palestinians. And no matter how many people work the peace approach, these aren’t people in “Israeli” streets, they are in concentration camps. If they sit in the street, so what?
You really need to get a clue!
October 30th, 2009 at 3:34 pmNinerFan says:
Sorry, but I think you know as well as anyone that at any time during the last 40 years, they could have responded with the time-honored methods of Ghandi or King.
The reason Ghandi succeeded was because the oppressed where an overwhelming majority of people.
The reason King succeeded was because the majority of people were unaffected negatively by the decision to grant rights.
The reason there was a civil war, is the same reason the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is unsettled. There is too much money/land at stake to just give in, and both sides have too many people to just accept the other.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:40 pmYou guys are correct. I don’t know enough to judge. It just seems to me that there have been opportunities for non-violent resistance in the past; maybe not today. And, the fact that right wing Zionists have been successful at ruining peace efforts is on them, not the Palestinians. Palestinians didn’t have to respond with violence. And believe me. I know this is all very easy for someone like me to say living in my semi-comfortable middle-class American life. But, being a child of the fifties, I can’t help but look at the civil rights movement and wonder why some of those methods were not used successfully in Palestine. I think religion is what screwed up any chance of that happening. In the civil rights era, the abusers and the abused shared the same religion.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:42 pmNiner, I was born in 51. I grew up in the south. I remember colored water fountains next to white. Same with rest rooms.
Dr. King’s methods worked but violence was laid heavily upon black communities for it.
The main reason it worked was because it became public. It was on the news every night. People responded to that. Who will respond to the same in Palestine? Isreal?
Non-violence may work in certain circumstances but would they have worked for us against Germany during WWII? Or Japan?
See, it’s not all just black and white. Israel is the aggressor, who has unjustly taken land and refused to give it back to it’s rightful owners.
All of Europe and the rest of the world are calling Isreal the aggressor which they most certainly are.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:49 pmNiner, by the logic you put forth, the Jews should have practiced passive resistance to the Nazi’s. Oh yeah, they did!
October 30th, 2009 at 3:54 pmbleepn. Nice work.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:58 pmNinerFan says:
You guys are correct. I don’t know enough to judge. It just seems to me that there have been opportunities for non-violent resistance in the past; maybe not today.
There are still non violent opportunities, and that’s what stewart was encouraging that must continue. You missed the point.
October 30th, 2009 at 4:13 pmMy missive to Jon:
WTF?
You did wonderful!
I don’t understand the confusion between reporting news, real news, from original sources and reading what “sources” say.
I look forward to more of your interviews.
I enjoy making up my mind using original thought.
Thank you.
October 30th, 2009 at 4:18 pmSome people are slime.
October 30th, 2009 at 4:25 pmSlime squeals when it’s disinfected.
The hecklers are squealing.
Sadly, the European invaders (who just happened to seize the most fertile strip of land within hundreds of miles) have nukes.
October 30th, 2009 at 5:08 pmIt has come to a point whereas I prefer listening to the alien wackos instead of the teabaggin wackos.
At least they are intelligent.
October 30th, 2009 at 5:54 pmThat’s what I’m talking about Pete.
And unaccountable nukes at that.
October 30th, 2009 at 5:59 pm@ 126. Fred says: “Virtual Pebble says: Fred, for starters, in 1967 they could have started a non-violent movement for freedom.” I will just point you to the title and substance of this thread. It exemplifies reaction to any peaceful attempt for anyone supporting Palistine’s struggle. Remember, there are Palestinians with house keys to family homes that Israelies are now living in. How do you respond peacefully to that? October 30th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Fred, I did take note of the title and substance. I think Dr. Barghouti is to be commended. OTOH, my initial comment was a just on EnnuiD’s and your comments on the nature of the conditions under which the Palestinians live and the historic background of ‘concentration camps’. All of it was a little OT, but since we’re there…
As for Palestinian homes, reparations and repatriation are serious problems. Most of the people who still have the keys to homes that are now in Israel didn’t really have a chance to respond in any way except to flee. Personally, I suppose if I were placed in that position, I could try to fight, but trying as an individual to fight, say, an infantry squad or platoon that’s clearing a neighborhood isn’t the smartest thing to try doing.
@ 127. just the bleepn facts says: “Virtual Pebble says: Fred, for starters, in 1967 they could have started a non-violent movement for freedom, but instead, the hotheads with guns were allowed to rule the day.” Foreigners invade your home, is your first thought non-violence? Don’t be dense. October 30th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
I’m not dense, jtbf, but I’m not a Palestinian or Israeli propagandist or supporter, either.
The Palestinians aren’t the only people to lose homes since 1948 in the Israeli-Arab conflicts. Sephardic Jews, who had lived across North Africa, from Morrocco to Egypt since the Roman Empire era, Jews who’d lived throughout Arab lands and into Iran from before the Roman Empire, lost homes as a result of the creation of the state of Israel. They had always been “second class citizens” in the Islamic lands, but they became even worse off after Israels independence was declared and they were virtually forced out of countries across the region, with no compensation, and ended up as refugees in Israel, where they were welcomed as brothers, and again as second class citizens; the Ashkenazi and Sabras aren’t above a little bigotry, themselves.
Everyone should be compensated for property that they lost. It’s out of the question for the Jews who “emigrated” to Israel to return to their families’ country of origin of a few decades ago, and it is probably as much out of the question for Palestinians who lived in what is now Israel to return as well. The host governments of those Palestinians should allow them citizenship and property rights.
Over the years, I’ve seen variants of the “what would you do if someone invaded your home” question. I do take it to be a serious issue, both in the literal sense and in the greater sense of one people invading another people’s homeland. In this case, there are some complicating factors, on both sides. Obviously, the old saw we hear from various Israelis about it being an empty land is so much BS, although one could make the argument that the Zionists arriving in the late 19th and early 20th century came mostly from European cultures where the type of common land holding practiced by Ottoman Empire Arabs wasn’t what Europeans did, so they simply didn’t recognize what they were seeing. They weren’t seeing “empty”, they were seeing the common holdings of villages.
There’s also the problem, which Arabs, and particularly Palestinians, like to ignore; that’s that there were Jews in Palestine and the general area, from Turkey all the way around the Mediterranean to Morrocco, and from Iran all the way around the Persian/Arabian Gulf to Yemen and back up to Egypt, and most particularly, in Palestine. They’d been in Palestine all along, from the return from their Babylonian captivity through the Greek and Roman invasions and on through the diaspora and revolts and crusades. Right there along with some of the older Arabic tribes, clans, and families. The Zionists were new, but Jews had been there right through all the crap from 600BC right up to the present. So just who the frack is invading who?
@ 130. Fred says: Virtual, Consider how Jimmy Carter is treated. He is a peaceful man but he is called terrible names because he fights for justice in this situation and justice is not what Israel is looking for. October 30th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I’d say that justice is not what Likud and the Israeli far-right is looking for, but I wouldn’t smear all of Israel with that brush.
Jimmy Carter was, in my opinion, about the best president we had between Harry Truman and Barack Obama. Only time will tell regarding whether President Obama is better or worse than President Carter, judged overall. I can’t judge Kennedy on what might have been, although he was certainly doing the right thing for the most part. It’s unfortunate that Johnson thought he had to hang Vietnam around his neck like a dead animal or albatross; apart from that he did good.
@ 138. Fred says: Niner, I was born in 51. I grew up in the south. I remember colored water fountains next to white. Same with rest rooms. Dr. King’s methods worked but violence was laid heavily upon black communities for it. The main reason it worked was because it became public. It was on the news every night. People responded to that. Who will respond to the same in Palestine? Isreal? Non-violence may work in certain circumstances but would they have worked for us against Germany during WWII? Or Japan? See, it’s not all just black and white. Israel is the aggressor, who has unjustly taken land and refused to give it back to it’s rightful owners. All of Europe and the rest of the world are calling Isreal the aggressor which they most certainly are.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Fred, I was born in 1943. I don’t remember the Israeli war for independence, but I do remember the news in 1956 about the Suez Canal crisis when the Israelis threw in with the Britch and French to try to take over the Canal and President Eisenhower’s refusal to back them, followed by the collapse of the whole scheme.
I also remember quite well Israel’s preemptive attack on the Egyptians in the Sinai in ‘67, followed by the seizure of the Golan Heights, the West Bank and Gaza. I believe the Israelis were well within their rights to preempt; the Egyptians and Syrians were setting up to invade. It’s unfortunate that the Palestinians and Jordanians got caught up in it.
I also recall most of the wars and skirmishes since. I don’t think the Israelis are the agressors, and most of the nearby Arab states aren’t agressors anymore either, even though none except Egypt and Jordan have made their peace with the Israelis.
A non-violent campaign will work with the Israelis because they are basically a democratic people in a democratic state. That’s why it worked in our South, eventually, and that’s why it worked for Gandhi. It doesn’t work too well against militarists, and that’s why it wouldn’t have stopped Hitler or Tojo; they’d just have the non-violent folks murdered or hauled off to a work camp.
Most of the European nations have diplomatic relations with Israel, and very few of them approve of the way in which the Israelis abuse the Palestinians. Most of them also do not approve of the Palestinians trying to shoot their way to statehood. What the European people feel is probably all over the map, just as it is here; I don’t think the Europeans have the number of “end times” rapture freaks that we have, but there are probably even a few of those.
October 31st, 2009 at 2:32 amVirtual Pebble says:
Everyone should be compensated for property that they lost. It’s out of the question for the Jews who “emigrated” to Israel to return to their families’ country of origin of a few decades ago, and it is probably as much out of the question for Palestinians who lived in what is now Israel to return as well.
The families that went to Israel were from Europe, not Israel. If you mean “ancestral” origins, Israelis are from “Iraq”, not “Israel” according to their own documentation.
Palestinians are Jews that grew up in Israel, and were shoved off of their lands by those “European” immigrants.
The rest of your nonsense is just that – propaganda nonsense.
October 31st, 2009 at 2:51 amVirtual Pebble says:
I also remember quite well Israel’s preemptive attack on the Egyptians in the Sinai in ‘67, followed by the seizure of the Golan Heights, the West Bank and Gaza. I believe the Israelis were well within their rights to preempt;
So did Hitler, and every other victimizing power.
Israelis stole the land from the people that lived there for more than a millennium.
If you are going to say this is valid and appropriate, then the Mexicans and Native Americans should come take back your house and shove you into a concentration camp right now…
You and the rest of the “apologists” that justify this genocide and atrocity against the Palestinians are as bad as those that stood by when the Jews were being persecuted during WWII. You are disgusting to me.
October 31st, 2009 at 2:54 amVirtual Pebble says:
There’s also the problem, which Arabs, and particularly Palestinians, like to ignore; that’s that there were Jews in Palestine and the general area,
Palestinians are Jews you ignorant j*ck*ss, and Jews are “Arabs” – Semitic peoples.
Your separation of jews off based on “religion” is just an excuse to further the stupid bigotry of Jews against their own tribe.
October 31st, 2009 at 2:55 am148, 149, 150. just the bleepn bleepn bleepn…
sorry to have upset you, bleepn.
I’m well aware that the ‘Holy Scripture’ of the tribes of Israel puts their origin in Iraq. or pretty close to it.
I’m also well aware that they are a Semitic people, as are the Arabs.
I don’t separate them on the basis of anything. they had separated themselves from their cousins long before you or I had arrived in this world.
as for my reference to country of origin, I was referring to the period after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the late 19th Century and early 20th Century, which is when this latest mess, from 1948 until present, started brewing.
as for Israelis being European, you’re not exactly up on 20th Century history in the Middle East and North Africa, are you? here’s a sample of where a significant portion of the Israeli population comes from;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands
you may not like that, bleepn, but it’s reasonably accurate.
as for genocide, I suspect that if the Israelis really wanted to commit an act of genocide against their cousins in the area, they could do a much better job of it. some of their cousins would still like commit an act of genocide against the Israelis, but most of those folks aren’t in charge of a government any more.
October 31st, 2009 at 11:00 am