Kristol Urges No Trial For Hasan: ‘They Should Just Go Ahead And Convict Him And Put Him To Death’
Kristol Urges No Trial For Hasan: ‘They Should Just Go Ahead And Convict Him And Put Him To Death’
Law enforcement officials announced yesterday that Maj. Nidal M. Hasan has been charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder in the brutal attacks at Fort Hood Army base. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said that “the number one issue, I think right now, is that Major Hasan be brought to justice.”
Last night on Fox News, Bill Kristol called Napolitano’s comment “stupid” and stated outright that there should be no trial:
KRISTOL: I was very struck also by Janet Napolitano’s comment, I hadn’t read it before to see her say that, that the number one priority is to bring him to justice is such a knee-jerk comment and such a stupid comment. He’s going to be brought to justice. He is not going to be innocent of murder. There are a lot of eyewitnesses to that. They should just go ahead and convict him and put him to death.
Watch it:
Apparently, Kristol is not a huge believer in the Constitution, the Sixth Amendment of which states that “[i]n all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed.”
Hasan’s attorney, Col. John Galligan (Ret.), noted this fact when CNN’s Wolf Blitzer asked how he could “represent someone accused of mass murder”:
GALLIGAN: I fully appreciate the importance of ensuring that everybody has a fair trial. I think that’s particularly important when it applies to anyone in uniform, officer or enlisted. Their profession is to defend us. We owe it to them as either fellow service members or as U.S. citizens to ensure that we properly defend them. The rights that I’m asking be accorded to Major Hasan are the rights that service members live and die for. Let’s just make sure we don’t deprive them in his case.
As Adam Serwer at TAPPED noted of those espousing Kristol’s view, “This is Salem Witch Trial justice: If the crime is heinous, the accused is automatically guilty. That the evidence may be overwhelming doesn’t matter: You don’t just ’skip’ a fair trial because you feel like it. There’s a word for systems of justice that selectively afford due process — that word is ‘corrupt.’”
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Bill Kristol…unfamiliar with the Constitution’s Bill of Rights and the concept of due process…
What a shock.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:23 amOMG! Don’t these Neo-cons realize that this IS the United States? EVERYONE is entitled to a fair trial. Anything less is unacceptable. Man, these guys make me sick.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:24 amWhat do you expect from the guy who advocted nuking Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein and nuking Iran to make sure that nuclear weapons “aren’t introduced into the region”?
Kristol despises the Constitution and the values of America.
Hasan deserves a fair trial, based on the evidence found. When he’s eventually found guilty, he deserves to be locked away in a military prison, strapped to his wheelchair, for the rest of his life.
An Eye for an Eye makes the whole world blind, Kristol. Putting this man to death is not justice.
Leavenworth awaits.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:24 amThey should just go ahead and convict him and put him to death.
I agree with Bill, Bush & Cheney shouldn’t have a trial…
November 13th, 2009 at 11:25 amKinda’ like the NAZI’s did, huh Bill.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:25 amBloody Billy Kristol wrong again.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:28 amWOW, I didn’t think even kristol was this ignorant.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:28 amHe’s just pulling our chain. Tabloid TV.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:28 amCall me nuts, but if I thought that Obama was a “Chicago Hitler Stalin” the way Republicans do, I wouldn’t want him to have the authority to execute people without trial.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:30 amZimzone says:
They should just go ahead and convict him and put him to death.
I agree with Bill, Bush & Cheney shouldn’t have a trial…
Agreed.
As for Kristol the WAR CRIMINAL, he should be taken out by the soldiers from Iraq who were maimed for life due to his and Bush/Cheney’s LIES.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:30 amThis behavior will include ultra rightist shooters, Krissie?
November 13th, 2009 at 11:30 amKristol should be indicted and tried for fear mongering. The evidence is overwhelming.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:31 amThere are also 2 words: Lynch Mob
November 13th, 2009 at 11:31 amOur society is based upon rule of law. To throw that out, undermines our entire society.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:31 am10. Ncbrickhome,
That would make us no better than the governments we overthrew in Iraq and Afghanistan….and certainly no better than the ideal form of gov’t the neo-cons envision for the world.
Extra-judicial executions are beneath us
November 13th, 2009 at 11:33 amLast night on Fox News…
_____________________________________________________________
Ah, of course. Just the nightly helping of red meat for the Fox News audience.
It’s the Murdoch strategy — let’s inflame the mob mentality for ratings. After all, the U.S. Constitution is just a g*dd*mn piece of paper, and deadly dull. Kristol knows this and is only too happy to oblige — after all, it raises his cred with this crowd, too.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:33 amI guess these two should have just been hung without a trial:
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/813820.html
November 13th, 2009 at 11:35 am
EnnuiDivine says:
10. Ncbrickhome,
That would make us no better than the governments we overthrew in Iraq and Afghanistan….and certainly no better than the ideal form of gov’t the neo-cons envision for the world.
Extra-judicial executions are beneath us
I agree. But Kristol’s “logic” should be used on HIM.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:35 amP.D. says: OMG! Don’t these Neo-cons realize that this IS the United States? EVERYONE is entitled to a fair trial
COme now, P.D. you know that isn’t true.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:36 amIt wasn’t true since 9/11 2001, it isn’t true in Texas ( and some other states), and as Obama isn’t really the President ( because he doesn’t use signing statements to create policy and ‘law’) it’s not true now as Obama keeps the seat warm for when Sarah becomes Queen in 2012 (he’s having a hard time picking out the right coronation dress, hence the delay). :D
What the neocon truly believes…
November 13th, 2009 at 11:36 amI encourage the Republican Party to take seriously any advice Bill Kristol offers them.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:36 amI wonder if he feels the same about Scott Roeder, the guy that killed the doctor in church.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:36 amAnother pander for ratings.. trying to pull in the rabid, ignorant bigot crowd, The freepers have already started talking about a lottery/fee to be on the shooting excution squad to dispatch this guy to his maker…….
November 13th, 2009 at 11:36 amBill Kristol should be convicted of monumental stupidity and sentenced to a life of community service to make up for all the idiotic, damaging statements he has made on television which damaged and undermined the Constitution of the United States and further polluted the gullible minds of the poor sheeple who slavishly follow all the brain-dead pundits and politicians who dictate from the poisonious Faux Noise channel. Guilty of Treason.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:37 amFred says: WOW, I didn’t think even kristol was this ignorant.
Jeez Fred, I didn’t think you were that ignorant about Kristol’s ignorance! :D
November 13th, 2009 at 11:38 amNo no no, Shayne, you’ve got it all wrong: Calley was one of our guys and he ordered the brutal slaying of people who weren’t our guys. Extra-judicial killings are perfectly acceptable if they’re against people who aren’t “with us”.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:38 amKristol sounds like a fascist. If he wasn’t Jewish, he would have done well in Nazi Germany.
Everyone in America is entitled to a trial by jury. No exceptions.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:38 amNewsflash: Bill Kristol is a very stoopid person who talks far more that his intellectual acumen merits and who gets a lot more attention than he deserves.
Just thought you’d want to know. That is all.
Cheers,
November 13th, 2009 at 11:39 amWhy is Kristol afraid of a trial. Perhaps he know some of his pals will be named in not stopping this guy.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:40 amAs Chief of Staff to Vice President Dan Quayle, wouldn’t Kristol have been required to take an oath to support and defend the Constitution? If so, one has to wonder if he took that oath in bad faith. He has demonstrated, time and again, that he doesn’t believe the Constitution to be binding on elected officials (even though it is the very document that gives elected officials their power.)
November 13th, 2009 at 11:40 amglogrrl says: A lot.
You go, golgrrl!
November 13th, 2009 at 11:40 amIt is precisely these moments when we need to have a fair and impartial justice system. If for no other reason than insuring people like Hasan hase a fair trial insures that we all will get a fair trial.
Cats r flyfishn: he would have done just fine as a turncoat jew in nazi germany. he would sell out his own kin in a heartbeat.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:42 amWhat he is really saying: lets just go ahead and kill all the Muslims and non whites.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:43 am5th Estate, I guess I should have thought first. It’s just grandstanding.
He’s got to say something to stay relevant.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:44 amIn fairness, though, it should be pointed out that there was a very perspicacious and prescient follower of human foibles that predicted this very type of thing over a hundred years ago:
Cheers,
November 13th, 2009 at 11:45 amSo the Constitution only applies to white, rich, conservatives?
November 13th, 2009 at 11:46 amyeah, i’m pretty sure he’s a war criminal.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:47 amWe need to amend the Constitution ASAP. The new amendment shall read:
“Due process is not applicable whenever Bill Kristol deems it to be unnecessary.”
November 13th, 2009 at 11:48 amI can’t believe how MSM is constantly giving these Neo-Con nut-jobs a platform. They have been wrong about EVERYTHING. Kristol, Kagen, All of them. The Repugs always reward their own kind after failure. Condi opening a firm. ‘Heck of a job Brownie’ opening his own firm. If it were us? We would be living in a box.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:50 amYou’re right. Kristol is the type of person that would have escorted his own mother to the gas chamber, I mean, showers.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:52 amOnly to white, rich conservatives of the Merchant class.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:52 amJonathon Turley was on Maddow last night, talking about how the legal process would work in this case and it was pretty interesting.
Hasan is charged with premeditated murder, not terrorism.
My reaction to that was that was:
1) The Army doesn’t have a terrorism case
2) The defense could then plead insanity
3) if an insanity plea were accepted then that would mitigate possible tensions in the Army re other serving Muslims, compared to terrorism charges and/or a murder judgement…
BUT
Turley explained that that the USMCJ doesn’t have a definition of terrorism so that charge can’t be made anyway.
Turley also pointed out, though, that in the military system insanity is much tougher to establish than in civilian courts ( and cited Moussaoui as being a lunatic, but still deemed mentally fit for trial and conviction).
So it looks to me as though Hasan is going to be tried as fairly (in comparison to civil court)as the military judiciary can allow, that an insanity plea will likely fail, and that he will be concited of murder and sentenced appropriately.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:53 amDear Billy…
We in America still like living under the Rule of Law.
Otherwise, we would have to condemn you for Stupidity.
Thx. The American People.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:53 amFigures. Krystol is a neocon, ergo the Constitution only applies to fat old white guys…
November 13th, 2009 at 11:55 amIt’s a good thing that idiots like Kristol are not in charge of anything.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:56 amHe is the Queen of Hearts in Alice in Wonderland.
That was a stupid comment even by Kristols standards.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:56 amMarie@45, Yeah, Bill Kristol is a legend in his own mind.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:57 amKristol: “He is not going to be innocent of murder. There are a lot of eyewitnesses to that. They should just go ahead and convict him and put him to death.”
Um… that’s the whole idea, Bill. except for civilized people, the “go ahead and convict him” part isn’t usually seen as a mere prelude to the execution.
You see, Bill, it’s not the execution that protects citizens. It’s the fair trial. Apparently you feel it’s the reverse. I guess that’s why you’re a fascist, Bill.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:57 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
McCain called this terrorism Tuesday.
McCain should know the military doesn’t try on terrorism.
But then, he can’t remember how many planes he crashed…
November 13th, 2009 at 12:03 pmI think storm has mommy issues. He capitalized woman in the middle of a sentence.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:03 pmI wonder why Kristol is so eager to see Hasan executed quickly. Could it be he had a hand in the carnage?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:05 pmI see our friend STORMfront has weighed in with his call for situational sentencing.
I find it interesting how folks like Stormfront seek to use punishment of others as emotional fulfillment.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:05 pmHitler would be proud of Billy.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:06 pmOh, & Storm (#49) – keep up on current events. It wasn’t a white woman who brought him down, but a black man. Not that the gender/color is important, I just want to point out you’re an idiot. ; )
November 13th, 2009 at 12:07 pmStorm, try keeping up with the facts will ya. First off it wasn’t a women who put him down, and second the guy is not in a coma. The only one who seems to be in a coma is you.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:07 pmJust another blatant demonstration that neoconservatives are completely out of touch with American values.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:08 pmUm, TORM?
maybe you didn’t see where the press got the story wrong about who brought down Hasan?
also – don’t you think it’s a little less than patriotic to dis on our justice system, and disrespect our American Laws?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:09 pm5th Estate says:
Turley explained that that the USMCJ doesn’t have a definition of terrorism so that charge can’t be made anyway.
After all these years, you figured someone would’ve put a definition of “terrorism” there by now.
But I guess it’s because, high in the ranks, they think “terrorism” is always what the enemy does, never something that your own troops would ever do.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:09 pmHeard on the radio about an hour ago the the number of those murdered had been raised to fourteen. One of the victims, a 21 year old woman, was pregnant.
The murderous Muslim shooter has also been charged with the murder of a unborn child.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:09 pmFred@51, I noticed that too. Hmmm… Is HE implying Hasan would be horrified a woman put him in a coma, or is STORM horrified a woman put Hasan in a coma?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:10 pmThe admins have informed me my posts will be delayed – I was sabotaged recently by some chip-shouldered Righty geek, whom I had obviously bruised a little too deeply.
Know the fear of my imminent return, righties, and do the righty thing by running away now, rather than vainly attempting to resist my force majeure.
Tpeeps, I will be fully returned and restored soon – I look forward to the real-time snarksharing we’ve all grown accustomed to.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:13 pmSo who did Kristol’s ignorance INSULT??
Faux audience . .
Yeah, whatever, they lap it up . .
[burp]
November 13th, 2009 at 12:15 pmThe worst thing “storm” can think of is to be put in his place by a girl.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pmThe next time Death Head Kristol even mentions the word “Constitution,” he needs to be slapped down with this video — and all the other stupid shit he’s ever said.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:18 pmTrials are sooooo boring for Kristol.
He would rather watch Carrie Prejean play with her hoo-hoo.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:20 pm“They should just go ahead and convict him and put him to death.”
Who is “THEY”?
Really, who is ‘they’?
Anyone here who agrees with Kristol have an answer?
You need either a Judge or a jury to ‘convict’ which means a trial . .
November 13th, 2009 at 12:20 pmKristol is one of those people who don’t believe that the courts should be clogged up with the lower classes. They can be served by arbitrary or pre-emptive “justice”; hang now, ask questions later. The courts should be reserved for show trials for the criminals and traitors who attack our poor poor puny upper classes, like Kristol.
Just because someone is a citizen and lives here doesn’t warrant equal justice before the law. Kristol’s opinion is that the law, having been bought by the wealthy, should stay bought.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:22 pmevangenital says:
Trials are sooooo boring for Kristol.
He would rather watch Carrie Prejean play with her hoo-hoo.
Word is we may see more of Carrie’s hoo-hoo to cum soon…
November 13th, 2009 at 12:23 pmAnd the Salem Witch trials are so well known for their just outcome !
Not to mention, weren’t the teabaggers screeching about how the USA has become something different than the USA they knew and loved ? And isn’t Kristol advocating a fascist system where the secret police can round you up without warrant or habeus, and just kill you on the spot if they want to ?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:25 pmStorm, you do realize that before he was in a “coma” he was dead, according to reports. So that means, by your standards he has risen from the dead and has proved he is the second coming of Christ. That would make Kristol one of those Jews who killed Christ. Why aren’t you defending Hasan? Don’t you want to acend to the right hand of god when the rapture happens?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:26 pmBill Kristol’s interpretation of the Constitution is “It only holds when I says so.”
November 13th, 2009 at 12:32 pmMapleStreet, the teabaggers in okla are advocating for pulling violators out of their cars and shooting them on the spot.
They are doing this in public and no one is calling them on it.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:32 pmJust saying those words gave Kristol a boner.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:32 pmKRISTOL: I was very struck also by Janet Napolitano’s comment, I hadn’t read it before to see her say that, that the number one priority is to bring him to justice is such a knee-jerk comment and such a stupid comment.
_____________________________________________________________
Just as I’m sure that phrases like “fair trial”, “due process”, “day in court”, “constitution”, etc. are words and phrases that yee-haws like Bill considers to be “knee jerk” and “stupid”.
Well, guess what, Bill? That’s the way our system works. And those brave men and women who were wounded or killed at Fort Hood? This is the system they were being trained to fight and die for.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:34 pmMapleStreet says
November 13th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
And isn’t Kristol advocating a fascist system where the secret police can round you up without warrant or habeus, and just kill you on the spot if they want to ?
_____________________________________________________________
Yeah, as long as those being rounded up are scary Moooooslims. He wouldn’t advocate white jerkwads like himself being subjected to that.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:36 pmvigor says:
The murderous Muslim shooter has also been charged with the murder of a unborn child.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
__________
Was the fetus Christian or Jewish or Atheist or what? It’s important that you report all these details and not just some, you know.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:38 pmSo, Kristol, what would stop the government from executing you for anything without a trial?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:40 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
KRISTOL: I was very struck also by Janet Napolitano’s comment, I hadn’t read it before to see her say that, that the number one priority is to bring him to justice is such a knee-jerk comment and such a stupid comment. He’s going to be brought to justice. He is not going to be innocent of murder. There are a lot of eyewitnesses to that. They should just go ahead and convict him and put him to death.
************************************************************
If this comment doesn’t prove that Kristol is not the patriot he pretends to be, I don’t know what does. Hasan was born in the United States — and if memory serves, regardless of whether you agree with it or not, anyone born in the United States is legally considered a citizen even if neither parent is a citizen. This means that Hasan is fully entitled to the rights and protections granted by the Constitution, which include the right to legal defense and a fair trial in which he is confronted with the evidence against him. Since Hasan is in the military and since the crime was committed on a military base, the trial will probably be conducted by a military tribunal rather than a civilian court — and since there were several witnesses, the trial will probably be a mere formality for the most part. However, the fact that the evidence points overwhelmingly to his guilt and that he’s fated to either be executed or imprisoned for life does not alter the fact that he’s entitled if nothing else to the formality of a trial — anything less would be knee-jerk vigilante justice, and reactionary vengeance is not what this country is supposed to stand for.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:43 pm@ 65. LizCoro says: “They should just go ahead and convict him and put him to death.” Who is “THEY”? Really, who is ‘they’? Anyone here who agrees with Kristol have an answer? You need either a Judge or a jury to ‘convict’ which means a trial . . November 13th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
I have no idea who ‘they’ is; as far as I can make out, Kristol approves of vigilante or lynch-mob “justice”.
There have been times when courts martial, which is where Hasan is probably going to be tried, have had the appearance of a ‘kangaroo’ court or a railroad job, with a predetermined outcome, but I think the Army legal system is going to take this matter seriously and treat it with the appropriate dignity and regard for due process.
For this proceeding against Hasan, there has to be a general court martial. There are two lower level court martial types, called summary and special, which cannot impose a sentence over one year or the death sentence.
There are a few procedural steps that have to be gone through before the court martial takes place. The first really important one is an Article 32 hearing, which will detail the facts in the case for the defense, and will result in a recommendation from the hearing officer to the court martial convening officer regarding charges. What Hasan has been ‘charged’ with at the moment are preliminary charges; the Article 32 hearing will ratify or change those charges.
If there are facts that are more appropriately dealt with under Federal jurisdiction; for instance, if something turns up that really does make this look like political or religious terrorism rather than workplace murder, the whole business can be turned over to the US Attorney for Texas to prosecute in Federal Court.
The “jury” in a court martial is called a panel.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:48 pmRemember: conservatives only believe in the constitution and individual rights when it suits them and their cause. If it goes against their beliefs, then it’s ok for the individual’s rights to be removed or violated.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:49 pmIt’s exciting to thing that in a minute or two some Liberal will be spewing rationalizations beyond imaginations. I look forward to this convoluted reasoning.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////
No Vigor, convoluted reasoning is a repug disease, see a doctor and seek the cure.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:49 pmvigor says:
I just heard on talk radio that a fourteenth murder charge, against the extremist, radical, murderous religious shooter at Ft Hood, is being considered.
.
.
.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Oh, by happenstance, this shooter is a Muslim.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:51 pmvigor, he’s not a terrorist. Put a sock in it.
dang, I don’t think there are enough boogey men left to keep you trembling. Maybe cut back on the speed.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:52 pmvigor says:
I just heard on talk radio that a fourteenth murder charge, against the extremist, radical, murderous religious shooter at Ft Hood, is being considered. Is an act of terrorism automatically considered a “hate crime,” or will the shooter have to be charged separately with a “hate crime?”
Can you, vigor, legally define “terrorism”? Just to see if it applies to this case.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:52 pmVigor-mortis: Recess is over, get back to 4th grade before you have to sit in the corner.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:52 pmIsn’t denying someone due process of law a direct affront to the founding fathers they claim to love so much?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:53 pmBesides, there are tons of eye witnesses that saw this monster do what he did, his trial will be a slam dunk. What are they afraid of? It’s not like he’s gonna get off. As for his defense attorney, he’s not some mafia mouthpiece that’s going go to any lengths for an acquittal. He’s just there to make sure the rights of the accused are upheld. Rights that are guaranteed to all of us through the constitution and have been fought and died for by our servicemen and women for a couple hundred years now.
KRISTOL (R-Israel) says, “They should just go ahead and convict him and put him to death.”
And what should we do to the Israelis responsible for the Holocaust that’s occuring to millions of Palestinian refugees trapped in the West Bank and Gaza Strip?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:54 pmI look forward to this convoluted reasoning.
Considering you say “I just heard on talk radio”, I’d say any reasoning is beyond your ability.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:54 pmHow would anyone even tell?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:55 pm@ 77. vigor says: I just heard on talk radio that a fourteenth murder charge, against the extremist, radical, murderous religious shooter at Ft Hood, is being considered. It turns out that one of the victims, a 21 year old woman, was pregnant. The SOA Major killed an unborn child. Is an act of terrorism automatically considered a “hate crime,” or will the shooter have to be charged separately with a “hate crime?” It’s exciting to thing that in a minute or two some Liberal will be spewing rationalizations beyond imaginations. I look forward to this convoluted reasoning. November 13th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
That’s a tasteful ignorance you got there, vigor. Let’s see if we can help correct it.
At the moment, Major Hasan is charged under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). There is no article in the UCMJ for ‘hate crimes’ or for ‘terrorism’. He can be tried for murder and assault. If his Article 32 hearing, which occurs before his General Court Martial is held, finds that there are motivating factors which may be more properly addressed by a Federal court, such as ‘hate’ or ‘terror’, his case can be transferred to the Federal criminal system.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:56 pmI think we should just remove Kristol’s brain since he’s not using it anyway.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:56 pmAnd after his fair trial and legal conviction I hope he rots in Leavenworth until the end of his days. Wanting someone to get a fair trial isn’t “taking their side” or something, it’s demanding that the American way be upheld.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:56 pmLuis Chapulin M says: “But I guess it’s because, high in the ranks, they think “terrorism” is always what the enemy does, never something that your own troops would ever do.”
Indeed.
But Turley explained that there is a civil legal definition of terrorism which hinges on motivation, that being the use of violence to effect political change through vilence and threats of violence.
It is logical therefore that the US army, or any formal army subject to some civilian political constraint and authority, has no actual motivation to effect political change through ciolence or the threat of violence—that motivation lies with its civilian Commander-in Chief and the political authority that it serves. (”just following orders”, really).
It is also understandable that an army, formal or otherwise, couldn’t possibly imagine it might be a ‘victim of terrorism’ or even subject to terrorism.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:57 pmWhat self respecting army could possibly reasonably complain about violence visited upon it, especially by an individual or handful of terrorists? That would be lame!
And this explains our friend’s apparent agreement with Bill Kristol on dispensing with due process in this case.
As opposed, to, say, Scott Roeder, who murdered a man in church before dozens of witnesses.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:57 pmThe phrase I use was, “…an act of terrorism.” I didn’t say the shooter was being charged with terrorism.
If it makes people afraid to the point that it changes the way they act, it’s an act of terrorism.
I would charge the shooter with terrorism.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:59 pmvigor’s war on Muslims is the root cause of the tragedy. He owns responsibility for it as much as the shooter.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:02 pmmissmolly says:
Ah, of course. Just the nightly helping of red meat for the Fox News audience.
It’s the Murdoch strategy — let’s inflame the mob mentality for ratings.
You are right on target. Kristol is just playing to the Fox audience. I wouldn’t get bent out of shape over his comments. The Fox viewers will eat it up but the rest of us are much more rational.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:09 pmvigor says:
If it makes people afraid to the point that it changes the way they act, it’s an act of terrorism.
I would charge the shooter with terrorism.
Well it’s a better definition of terrorism than the one the trolls tend to use (i.e. anybody I dislike is a terrorist). Kudos to you.
However you can apply your own definition to Operation Shock and Awe over Baghdad, which was designed to break the will of the Iraqi people prior to the invasion. Making all those people afraid in order to change the way they acted. An act of terrorism with an estimated (by the Iraqi Body Count group) 6500+ civilian deaths.
I wonder if Kristol will demand a quick conviction and death for the leaders of the Coalition of the Willing?
November 13th, 2009 at 1:10 pm@ 58. Luis Chapulin M says: “5th Estate says: Turley explained that that the USMCJ doesn’t have a definition of terrorism so that charge can’t be made anyway.” After all these years, you figured someone would’ve put a definition of “terrorism” there by now. But I guess it’s because, high in the ranks, they think “terrorism” is always what the enemy does, never something that your own troops would ever do. November 13th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Nah. It’s just the military. They don’t care, for purposes of legal justice, why someone commits murder. Terror or hate would just be an aggravating factor and is unnecessary to convict and sentence. The military system is also harder on mitigating factors, like insanity; Hasan’s attorneys can mount an insanity defence at court martial, and use it during appeal, but the initial court martial probably won’t respond to it. The military prefers it’s justice system straight up, neat; they don’t want a bunch of complications and dithering and nit-picking.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:11 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
vigor says:
I just heard on talk radio that a fourteenth murder charge, against the extremist, radical, murderous religious shooter at Ft Hood, is being considered.
It turns out that one of the victims, a 21 year old woman, was pregnant. The SOA Major killed an unborn child.
Is an act of terrorism automatically considered a “hate crime,” or will the shooter have to be charged separately with a “hate crime?”
It’s exciting to thing that in a minute or two some Liberal will be spewing rationalizations beyond imaginations. I look forward to this convoluted reasoning.
Not that I’m trying to excite you, but I don’t believe the UCMJ treats an unborn child like an already-born person, the way Christian evangelicals like to. So whichever talk radio host said a 14th murder charge may be coming was talking out his ass and making stuff up. Don’t believe it.
Also, the UCMJ also does not have any “hate crimes”, so he won’t be charged by the military for that.
Sorry to disappoint you.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pmThat’s the point vigerous, what’s the difference?
November 13th, 2009 at 1:18 pmOnly freaks like him get the air time.
Journalism is DOA.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:18 pmvigor says:
Was Roeder shouting, “Allahu Akbar,” or was he shouting, “Jesus loves you?”
Maybe he was shouting “Jesus loves you… but screw his teachings, I’m gonna kill you!”
November 13th, 2009 at 1:19 pmKristol is merely advocating what the US military has been doing in the third world for the last one hundred and eleven years of colonial aggression and imperial occupation, since 1898 in Manila, Philippines. Over five million people murdered by US military forces and the CIA (note: CIA has only been murdering foreigners for some sixty years).
November 13th, 2009 at 1:21 pmI applaud vigor mortis for acknowledging the truth of his convictions.
in other words, our friend sees no similarity between one man murdering in the name of his faith and another doing the same thing, as long as they are of different faiths.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:42 pmOr maybe he was shouting , “Jesus loves you, but I don’t! I’m going to kill you!”
November 13th, 2009 at 1:44 pm“Jesus loves you?”
November 13th, 2009 at 2:11 pm–
Is that question mark where you wanted it to be or is that a typo?
With Kristol’s utter abysmal track record on everything, why in hell does the dork have a pundit slot ANYWHERE?
November 13th, 2009 at 2:29 pmralph the wonder llama says:
I applaud vigor mortis for acknowledging the truth of his convictions.
in other words, our friend sees no similarity between one man murdering in the name of his faith and another doing the same thing, as long as they are of different faiths.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Since Roeder was shooting an abortionist, one who was attending a Christian church, and Hasan was shooting the others, non-believers, non-Muslim, you should probably be more concerned about the Muslim. Hasan apparently didn’t care about guilt or innocence of his victims, but Roeder seemed overly concerned about the guilt of his victim.
November 13th, 2009 at 2:38 pmSo that means that Kristol should be executed TODAY?? Since he’s already been found guilty of complicity in WAR CRIMES, his trial should be bypassed and he should be summarily executed to day??
Sounds like Kristol…..
November 13th, 2009 at 2:39 pm73. Fred. That is incredible.
Don’t get me wrong. I mean, there are people who I think deserve to be shot. But who isn’t on at least one persons list ? And some of the crazies could probably take out at least 1,000 people a day for some imagined / perceived offense.
In short, if we don’t institutionalize justice, who will be left standing ?
November 13th, 2009 at 2:46 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Vigor, the “abortionist” was performing a legal medical service.
Roeder’s twisted faith led him to ignore one of the Ten Commandments in order to exact a form of self-ordained “justice”.
Ignoring key tenets of religious doctrine in order to exact a form of self-ordained “justice” is a pretty accurate description of what Maj. Hasan did as well.
You seem determined to ignore the fundamental similarities of the two crimes in favor of finding perspectives that excuse one of the them. None of us is really surprised.
November 13th, 2009 at 2:54 pmVigor mortis @ 112 – you gap-toothed idiot, we are concerned about BOTH. This is not an either/or situation.
Murdering others in the name of religion – and I don’t give a damn whether the religion is Islam, Christianity, Pastafarianism or voodoo – is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
If Hasan is a “terrorist” murdering people for his faith, then by your definition, Scott Roeder is every bit as much a terrorist. You can’t have it both ways, moron.
November 13th, 2009 at 2:58 pmBRING ON THE LYNCH MOB!! (: snark:
November 13th, 2009 at 3:04 pmvigor says:
Perhaps there’s another reason Roeder’s faith was not extensively examined after he murdered a man in a churh. The more Roeder’s faith was examined the more press we would have seen about what the abortionist actually did. What citizen wants to reminded of what abortionist Tiller did in his professional life?
It’s exactly opposite vigor. The media did not want to stress too much that Roeder’s views are exactly the same views as those of the christian taliban. It puts their religion in a bad light, as well is should.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:06 pmYou seem determined to ignore the fundamental similarities of the two crimes in favor of finding perspectives that excuse one of the them. None of us is really surprised.
What fundamental similarities? If there’s a single fundamental similarity – each crime was committed in the name of faith, then each was a crime committed in the name of faith.
For either murderer I’d vote guilty.
But I’m not an abortionists, and I don’t feel fear from someone who calls himself a Christian and is willing to walk into a church and kill someone.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:06 pmWhy isn’t he demanding the same thing for the former president and vp? Oh I know..He agreed with them!
November 13th, 2009 at 3:08 pm(emphasis mine)
Our friend vigor keeps confirming his fear-driven approach to justice.
Anyone surprised?
November 13th, 2009 at 3:12 pmLeftside Annie says:
Vigor mortis @ 112 – you gap-toothed idiot, we are concerned about BOTH. This is not an either/or situation.
Murdering others in the name of religion – and I don’t give a damn whether the religion is Islam, Christianity, Pastafarianism or voodoo – is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
If Hasan is a “terrorist” murdering people for his faith, then by your definition, Scott Roeder is every bit as much a terrorist. You can’t have it both ways, moron.
November 13th, 2009 at 2:58 pm ’s
I haven’t hinted that these crimes – Roeder’s or Hasan – were either/or situations. I said Roeder’s victim Tiller had killed, by Tiller’s own admmission, 60,000 unborn children.
I suggest that Roeder’s motivation was to kill a murderer – Tiller. I said Hasan’s motivation appeared to be to kill non-Muslims.
I didn’t justify either murderer.
I speculated that the press didn’t pursue Roeder’s faith because they didn’t want Roeder describing how a partial birth abortion was performed.
I now speculate that the press, and TPers, don’t want to pursue the political and military aspects of Islam. They don’t want to have to deal with Mohammad’s personal military history.
Remember that Islam means “peace” or “submission” – the kind of submission and peace that comes when a man has his foot on an enemy’s neck.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:21 pmHypocrisy at work again. Just amazing! What planet is Kristol on? Planet Reichwing, broken off from apartheid South Africa, crashing into Bush country and inhabited by Theocracists and facists. Interesting how he had no comment even close to this when Dubyah invaded a country that had NOTHING to do with 9/11.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:25 pmExcept for the pesky little fact that Tiller was not a murderer in the eyes of the law. He was only a murderer in the eyes of Scott Roeder and the other fanatics who gave Roeder moral cover for his cowardly act.
Dr. Tiller performed a legal service for willing — in fact, often desperate — patients.
Um, yes, you did, when you expressed tacit sympathy for Roeder’s motivation. By repeatedly and uncritically calling Dr. Tiller a “murderer” absent any judgment as such from any responsible authority, you simply attempt to justify the crime that Roeder committed.
Dr. Tiller was not a murderer. Scott Roeder is.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:32 pmGive Hasan a trial in a military court and then hang him.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:32 pmPerhaps some day Kristol will be put to death with no trial. Does he think that’s okay, too?
November 13th, 2009 at 3:36 pmvigor says:
Perhaps there’s another reason Roeder’s faith was not extensively examined after he murdered a man in a churh. The more Roeder’s faith was examined the more press we would have seen about what the abortionist actually did.
Not really. The more you examine Roeder’s faith, the natural conclusion is that he decided to be God rather than follow him.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:36 pmThink of the millions of Americans who would have been executed- innocent – under Kristol’s ridiculous right-wing crap.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:37 pmWow, that’s just what we need….. Why don’t we stone the Major while we’re at it. If we are going to execute “terrorists” of the Islam persuasion, we should go all hog. Let’s make sure we follow, AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE, the wahabi version of Islam we supposedly hate.
God, more and more, I can’t tell the difference between Christian Right Wingers and hard-line Wahabi Moslems.
Get a clue Kristol, et al!
November 13th, 2009 at 3:50 pmGive that thing a full military trial then Life without paroll. Put him in a dank dark cell and let him rot.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:55 pmWatch the video again.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:00 pmI’m not one to jump to the defence of an idiot like Bill Kristol, but Mr. Armbruster inserted the word “just” in the sentence “They should just go ahead and convict him and put him to death.” Kristol was being critical of Janet Napolitano’s comment, about priority. (Petty as that is, but Kristol’s a prick) He was taking the trial and execution for granted, nothing more. He also never stated outright that there should be no trial.
Mr. Armbruster seems to have had the stupid knee jerk reaction on this one, shame on Think Progress.
The new American Justice by the GOP and their supporters. Major Hasan a US Military man is the first example of how the GOP would handle an American who goes insane. Yes it’s his religion but when a man name Jones who is Baptist goes insane and killed Krisol will look to want that religion wiped out. We’ve seen many who are white Catholics who commit murder and we’ve heard of the years children have been molested by Catholic Priest, woman raped by Catholic Priest but still they hold themselves high. The Jewish Religion has had it’s horror in many ways but only look to the bible as who they are. Few Americans even know Abraham was the Father of Jewish, Muslum and Christian Religions.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:00 pmHe is a terrorist and a traitor to his country. He is beyound a Blue Falcon. He mudered soldiers. He swore to protect his country. He broke his oaths to his country. This is on of the many Creads he swore by.
” will give to the selfless performance of my duty and my mission the best that effort, thought, and dedication can provide.
To this end, I will not only seek continually to improve my knowledge and practice of my profession, but also I will exercise the authority intrusted to me by the President and the Congress with fairness, justice, patience, and restraint, respecting the dignity and human rights of others and devoting myself to the welfare of those placed under my command.
The Commissioned Officer’s Creed
In justifying and fulfilling the trust placed in me, I will conduct my private life as well as my public service so as to be free both from impropriety and the appearance of impropriety, acting with candor and integrity to earn the unquestioning trust of my fellow soldiers–juniors, seniors, and associates–and employing my rank and position not to serve myself but to serve my country and my unit.
By practicing physical and moral courage I will endeavor to inspire these qualities in others by my example.
In all my actions I will put loyalty to the highest moral principles and the United States of America above loyalty to organizations, persons, and my personal interest.”
November 13th, 2009 at 4:01 pmI swore an oath to protect and defend the costitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Anyone that advocates having the government execute people without a trail is a traitor to the constitution.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:02 pmWhat was it, 160 some-odd people that Timothy McVeigh killed, some of them pre-schoolers in a day-care center? He got a trial, right? Everyone is supposed to get a trial in America. That’s one of our strengths.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:32 pmI think his point is it shouldn’t take 2 decades to give this killer the death penalty. In 1901, President McKinley was assassinated. He was shot on Sept. 5 and died on Sept. 12. His killer, Leon Czolgosz, did the deed in front of hundreds of witnesses. Czolgosa was put on trial and found guilty and put to death on Oct. 29, 1901. .. There was no need for appeal after appeal. When it was obvious he was guilty. But, I guess, lawyers like the years and years of appeal process because it pays so well.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:37 pmReading the above comments, I can tell you are either against anything Kristol says or you flat didn’t listen to the video. He said “convict and put to death”. That means a trial to convict and then the death penalty, kids.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:44 pmShorter Kristol:
“Muslims aren’t really human beings so they don’t deserve human rights”.
November 13th, 2009 at 5:17 pmI wonder if Kristol feels the same way about that lunatic that walked into a house of God and killed the doctor who did wholly legal abortions? Something tells me not.
November 13th, 2009 at 6:03 pmI wonder if any of these weasels ever think about the process of why this guy was not nailed beforehand. The methodical investigation will reveal the shortcomings of the intel community as well as his dealings. Our form of government has a method to it’s madness and lynching has no place in it.
November 13th, 2009 at 6:40 pmFirst of all, I’d like to state for the record that Bill(Coward) Krystal is an A S S H O L E, and I can’t stand the sight of him. Second, this chickenhawk, is always shooting off his big mouth about things that he doesn’t know anything about. If he hadn’t been such a coward, then he would have served in the military and have some idea what the hell he’s talking about. If the Comannder of Ft Hood even thought about doing what this idiot suggests, he’d be fired and forced to retire from the military. That’s why they wear the uniform, “to preserve, protect, and defend”, the Constitution of the United States.
I served and took that oath several times, belive me I know the words. Too bad this A S S H O L E didn’t know that, or he wouldn’t have made and a s s of himself. This is a perfect example of why rightwing fouls need to keep their stupid opinions to themselves. The commander of Ft Hood has done this many many times believe me he knows how it’s done. I know because I was a legal specialist and I helped to prosecute hundreds of cases. We followed the rules of the “Uniform Code of Military Justice”, not the dictates of fools who know nothing and are just cowards with opinions. It has served us well since the times of General Washington, and will live on long after this idiot is dust.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:19 pmWhy is the people most vocal about the government “taking away our rights” are also the same people who most want to ignore them?
November 13th, 2009 at 10:12 pmSTORMfront
You ignorant bigoted pile of dogshit. Just STFU
November 14th, 2009 at 12:32 amvigor
You are a liar a moron and a PUNK. Why are you so proud of your abject stupidity
November 14th, 2009 at 12:34 amConservaTROLL
kill yourself
November 14th, 2009 at 12:36 amsoldiergirl
Did you think you had a POINT? Is stupid off topic rambling just what you do? Whatever he was he gets a TRIAL in America
November 14th, 2009 at 12:38 amMr Duke
My GOD you are stupid. Kristol SAID what he meant. YOU are just dropping by to give a rationalization for another ignorant rightwing statement. You are a moron. IF he had meant it shouldnt take too long and we should do away with the appeals mechanism. THAT is what he would have said. I would have disagreed with that too but it ISNT what he said you ignorant appologist.
November 14th, 2009 at 12:40 amNext thing, Eugene – the trolls will be telling us that Bloody Billy Kristol was joking. Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.
*eyes rolling*
November 14th, 2009 at 1:40 amKristol, speaking of death, just go visit your dad, he will tell you why you should be ashamed.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:05 am@ 142. The Shadow says: … We followed the rules of the “Uniform Code of Military Justice”, not the dictates of fools who know nothing and are just cowards with opinions. It has served us well since the times of General Washington, and will live on long after this idiot is dust. November 13th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
There’s no need to exaggerate, Shadow. The UCMJ was ratified by Congress in 1950 and went into effect in 1951. Prior to that, the services had their own laws and regulations. The Navy had ‘Articles for the Government of the the United States Navy’, aka ‘Rocks and Shoals’, which probably derived from the Articles of War, which Congress put to the Army and Navy as their legal guidance; ‘Rocks & Shoals’ were superceded by the UCMJ. The original Articles of War were established for Washington’s Continental Army in 1775 and amended and reissued in 1806.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:10 amLittle Billy Kristol, a warmonger who never served, now a judge with no legal training,
November 14th, 2009 at 8:46 ambut it’s ok he doesn’t have to be competent.
He has his job because of who his Daddy was.
He’s been pampered and coddled his whole life.
He doesn’t ever need to be competent and he never needs to be correct to still have a job.
He also never had the need to become a man.
He will always be Daddy’s little boy.
Thank God that we still have a constitution that says people have to be convicted of a crime before we do away with them. It is the American way, you know. We even took the moral high ground and tried the most despicable perps from Germany and Japan after WW2. Not surprising though, that so many in my party are espousing this vigilante justice as suggested. But thank God our country is better than that. We will try these guys out in the open, as any civilized Godly country does and then we will carry out the sentence that is handed down by a jury after a legally tried case. As a Republican, these days I wonder just what planet these blabbers are from. Certainly not the Law and Order Grand Old Party, that is for sure. God help our country if we get down in the swill and we fail to live up to our heritage. Now that would make this savagery the crime of the ages if we allowed that.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:38 am???
November 16th, 2009 at 12:39 pm#21328
November 16th, 2009 at 12:41 pm#21328卐
November 16th, 2009 at 12:41 pmêêgññrs?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:51 pm?
November 16th, 2009 at 1:00 pmHitler got lots of caucasians killed – - not a very good aryan if you ask me
November 16th, 2009 at 1:07 pmNewsBusters — Olbermann: Kristol ‘Spitting on Ft. Hood Dead,’ O’Reilly Slammed for Calling ‘Terrorism’
November 17th, 2009 at 8:46 pmhttp://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/11/17/olbermann-kristol-spitting-ft-hood-dead-hits-oreilly-calling-terroris