Rove Attacks Obama For Bowing: He Should Do What All Presidents Have Done And ‘Not Bow To Monarchies’
Rove Attacks Obama For Bowing: He Should Do What All Presidents Have Done And ‘Not Bow To Monarchies’
This morning on Fox & Friends, former Bush adviser Karl Rove appeared on the program to bash President Obama for paying a respectful bow before the Japanese Emperor. Leading into the segment, co-host Steve Doocy claimed that there is a “long-standing precedent going back to the founding” of the U.S. that “American presidents don’t bow to anybody.” Doocy might want to do some research on President Eisenhower.
Calling the bow “inappropriate,” Rove wondered, “what’s that all about?” He added that Obama “simply can’t get it right” and that the bow is part of Obama’s “world-wide apology tour.” Rove concluded his assault with this final jab:
I think it’s best if American presidents do what they have always done — which is to stand for our small “r” republican values and do not bow to monarchies.
Watch it:
It’s true. Unlike Obama, Bush did not have a general policy of showing respect to world leaders. Instead, he opted for a special policy of showing particularly reverent displays of affection toward monarchs he liked. Presumably, Rove would have no complaints had Obama kissed and held hands with the Japanese Emperor:
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Rove would attack Obama for blowing his nose, or breathing, or eating.
Rove will attack anything that Obama does.
Why isn’t Rove facing war crimes charges?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:57 amsure he would… we only kiss the ass of leaders from whom we get oil..
November 16th, 2009 at 9:57 amBush had his tongue in every orifice of the Saudi despot.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:58 amIf Rove says not to do it, then you KNOW it’s the right thing to do.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:58 amBush owes his life to the Saudis. More than once, they bailed out the ne-er-do-well Bush, as a favor to GHWBush (mutual cooperation on oil in the middle East).
Bush repaid them by secretly gathering up all the Saudi family in the USA and seeing that they could return home quickly.
But KKK Rove has no problem with the boy-King sucking up to the Saudi Royals because anything Bush did was approved by him.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:03 amand this guy is always right.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:04 amGod these guys think the American people are stupid! Rove has the balls to complain? Bush holding hands with Saudi’s. Remember the photo-op with Bush smiling as they were walking around the White House? Anyone with the ‘Internets’ can point out Roves hypocricy. Just shut-up Turd Blossom.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:04 amCalling the bow “inappropriate,” Rove wondered, “what’s that all about?”
Someone who committed treason by outing an undercover CIA officer is babbling on about what is or isn’t appropriate ?
Gimme’ a break ………….
November 16th, 2009 at 10:04 amJust STFU rove you criminal.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:04 amMemo to Fat Karl:
This foolish attack on President Obama is just that, foolish. Bowing to a prince from Saudi Arabia is no different then bowing to royalty or the Pope. Of course you know this but your moronic followers from club Neanderthal don’t…we get it Fat Karl.
Question: Why isn’t Fat Karl in prison yet for being involved in the trumped up charges on former Democratic governor and political prisoner Don Segleman?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:05 ami.e., Obama should act like a complete boor, arrogant and condescending. Emperor Akihito isn’t the President of the United States, so no one should bow to him. The Emperor of a dynasty that’s existed for almost 2600 years should bow to Obama.
Seriously. The right will find any excuse (ANY at all) to criticize their President, all the while showing the complete and utter lack of class and civility that’s become a hallmark of the modern conservative ideology (hell. The European conservatives like Merkel, Sarkozy, Barrasso…they’ve got tact and grace. Why can’t the GOP take a lesson from Europe?)
November 16th, 2009 at 10:06 amGood call, KKKarl. Even better, he should have massaged his wife’s shoulders instead.
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/V/b/1/bush_groping_merkel.jpg
November 16th, 2009 at 10:06 amPresident Obama could cure cancer and negotiate world peace and Rove would complain.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:06 amIf Obama cured cancer, the teabagging hicks would whine that he put oncologists out of business.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:08 amDr@12, I can’t believe how MSM gave Bush a pass on that. If Obama pulled a faux pas like that, the MSM would crush him. The fact Bush GROPED the leader of Germany was unreal. What a baffoon.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:08 amShayne
November 16th, 2009 at 10:08 amBut if he did that, the pharmaceutical and health care industry would lose profits — and defense contractors would lose billions! How would our economy recover from THAT scenario? /snark
Are Karl Rove and Jeff Gannon (James Guckert) still an item?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:09 amThe librul MSM did crush the Obama’s for ‘daring’ to touch the Queen.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:09 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Calling the bow “inappropriate,” Rove wondered, “what’s that all about?”
It’s about respect for other leaders and others cultures, Karl.
It’s understandable that you wouldn’t recognize it.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:14 amThanks for your concern, Alejandro.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:15 amIf Obama cured cancer, the teabagging hicks would whine that he took valuable jobs away from WHITE blood cells.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:15 amKarl Rove wants to bow before Levi Johnson’s wee-wee.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:16 amAlejandro says:
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Frankly, I would have preferred he didn’t bow at all.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Your distaste is duly noted ………..Now , shut the fu(k up ………
November 16th, 2009 at 10:16 amRove Attacks Obama For Bowing: He Should Do What All Presidents Have Done
– - Note to Obama: Next time you see her, be sure you awkwardly and uncomfortably grope German President Merkel.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:18 amWeakness? Or respect?
Take it from me, bowing is not only a huge form of respect in Japan, but it does wonders to cultural and international understanding. I once had to address my workplace employees at a gathering in Japan days before my return to the US. Afterwards, I bowed in appreciation to my co-workers and received many bows in return, probably more if I had just tilted my head.
The bow is important in keeping Asian connections in place, but it is also identical to the handshake. It, like the handshake, was used to display that the adversary was unarmed in combat.
More importantly, it is performed more as a sign of respect, not apology; if Obama was to remain bent at the waist for more than 3 seconds, then it would be a sign of apology. Here, Obama likely bent too far, but it was not a prostrated bow.
Rove-san, omae wa honma ni aho ya na.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:18 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
In Japan, they bow instead of shaking hands. The two have identical meaning.
So, by that reasoning, the Japanese Emporer should have refused to shake Obama’s hand.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:22 ami’d much rather prefer to have a no mind president going around holding hands and kissing saudi men.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:24 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I agree with Karl, Obama SHOULD stop bowing to monarchies and PROSECUTE Little Boy Bush and his ex-BFF Cheney!
November 16th, 2009 at 10:24 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Alejandro says:
Obama violated a fundamental precept, no touching while bowing. Obama obviously received no instruction on Japanese etiquette. You would think that somebody in the administration would have given him some brief instructions before the meeting.
Bzzt. I disagree.
The Emperor actually starts the motion for the handshake. Obama accepts and follows with a bow. He probably would have gotten it right if he bowed first, then shook hands, but then you would have been insulted that Obama bowed without the handshake, correct?
You know, there are times where a handshake IS accepted with a bow in Japan, usually when receiving an honor.
I discussed this at Media Matters:
From Jon P. Alston’s Japanese Business Culture and Practices: A Guide to Twenty-First Century Japanese Business:
This is RESPECT, not apology, and the handshake is appropriate at times, as long as Obama isn’t trying to strangle the Emperor’s hand.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:26 amKKKarl doesn’t know how to bow out of indecency.
Treasonist. Liar. Political hack. FoxSucker.
Used to be ‘Bush’s Brain’; now he’s just called FatAss.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:26 amRove attacks Obama for _______________________ (fill-in-the-blank).
So of Obama hadn’t bowed, Rove would have been cheering Obama? I think not.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:28 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
It’s pretty obvious what is going on here. Rove and other republican strategists are going to start recycling any right wing on President Obama from the past that energized their clueless base. Expect the following stories to return in the future:
1-Reverend Wright
2-Tony Rezko
3-Obama admits he once did cocaine and marijuana
4-William Ayers
5-Obama’s birth certificate
6-Obama the Muslim
7-Obama the Anti-Christ
8-Previous statements made by Michelle Obama
9-Obama a communist and community organizer
Wash-Rinse-Repeat
November 16th, 2009 at 10:28 amAlejandro…You are an idiot. Go back to watching “The Dukes Of Hazzard”
November 16th, 2009 at 10:30 amAlejandro says:
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MCMetal says:
Alejandro says:
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November 16th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Where was all this criticism of Bush the Boy Blunder , the worst president in US history , when he kissed , held hands and sword danced with Saudi “royals”, tool ?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:31 amIs it that the trial are to start in New York the reason Rove is all Jaw bone all the sudden.
Getting a nervously sweaty crack are ya KKKarl.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:32 amWhy do republiscum hate America?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:33 amAlejandro, if a Japanese citizen were to bow incorrectly, yes, it is an offense.
I stress that, because I have seen worse bows from foreigners to Japanese people, and I have yet to see an instance where the Japanese guest was offended. The general idea, I get from experience and discussion, is that foreigners are not expected to understand bowing or perform it right, so even making an effort is considered respectible.
The fact that Obama bowed says respect.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:33 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
KKKarl is excellent at bending over. Bowing, not so much…
November 16th, 2009 at 10:33 amAlejandro says:
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ralph the wonder llama says:
Thanks for your concern, Alejandro.
I’m not too concerned that the “emperor” of Japan is insulted.
It’s just funny that Obama is just as inept as Bush in certain things.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:24 am
According to whom???????
You ? An ignorant American who probably has never left the aboriginal backwater he was raised in ?
Boy , you certanly have lots of “culture” there…….
November 16th, 2009 at 10:34 amAlejandro is passionate petting okay?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:34 amDeep thought for the day:
If Obama’s meeting with the Japanese emperor becomes known as “Bow-gate”, will the inevitable investigation of KKKarl RoverBoy become known as “Bow-wow-gate”?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:34 amOf course President George H.W. Bush showed his respect for the Japanese prime minister by vomiting into his lap on a 1992 visit. No doubt had it been the emperor he would have spit in his face too. A Republican tradition, perhaps.
In this day and age political discourse tends to seek the path of most resistence from the other side. Almost nothing is too incidental to blow up into a campaign issue. Alas, Sarah Palin, Beck World and talk radio were just the next logical regressions into the purely infantile.
Soon, Saturday Night Live will be at a loss to lampoon politicians and pundits. How can their own puerilistic absurdities ever be topped?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:35 amAlejandro says:
Insulted? Who me?
I’m laughing at the whole thing.
It’s ridiculous to bother with this tapdancing that’s a throwback to times when kings and such wore all sorts of ludicrous clothing and jewelry to identify themselves as the lord.
Maybe they should have had a fanfare and Obama could roll up on a chair carried by 8 men in colorful outfits.
Then he could curtsy and bow and the king can doff his crown in a flamboyant manner. It could be just as absurd as it used to be.
And I’m laughing that you think bowing in Japan is the equivalency of bowing in Europe.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:36 amI believe bowing in Japan is still preferable to projectile vomiting on your host.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:37 amRight, Old Bush?
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Speaking of Bush’s trip to Japan… Remember when a reporter asked a tough question and Georgie tried to run out those doors but they were locked? MSM pooh-poohed and said, ‘Isn’t that funny, It could happen to anyone!’ I don’t know WTF the MSM was talking about. I looked, to me, that Georgie was a coward running away. Unreal.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:38 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I remember when Alejandro used to pretend to be a progressive. He’s still an idiot but at least he’s more honest now.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:41 amAlejandro says:
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Some sort of respect? If you think someone who shakes your hand automatically respects you because of it, I’ve got some land and a bridge to sell.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:38 am
It’s a sign of respect when you follow precedence and custom with general good behavior based upon protocol , rather than your own selfish and haughty beliefs , you incredibly ignorant jackass …………
November 16th, 2009 at 10:42 amSo world leaders are trying to sell each other snake oil, so they shouldn’t even greet each other?
Believe it or not, Alejandro, there are honest people out there who greet people this way. Narero! (Get used to it!)
November 16th, 2009 at 10:44 amYeah, because showing respect to a foreign leader is just so un-American right Rove?
For pete’s sake, they just have to have something to rag on about don’t they?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:44 amRove should shut his yapper… everytime I see Karl I imagine him in a a ruffled pastel summer Chiffon dress, wearing pantyhose, strappy sandals and a big floppy picture hat, then I wake up screaming and in a cold sweat.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:44 amMc@60, That’s why Repugs and trolls would make terrible Diplomats. Maybe they think a little contact will make them gay or something?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:45 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
“Calling the bow “inappropriate,” Rove wondered, “what’s that all about?””
“Inappropriate” Karl? “What’s that all about”, Karl? Funny, most of us Americans were thinking the same thing when they heard how Bush gathered up bin Laden family members around the Country and had them spirited out of America immediately following the attacks on 9/11. You remember that right Karl? When ALL non-military airplanes were grounded (except for the jets carrying bin Laden’s relatives). You remember that…right Karl?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:46 amP.D. says:
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Mc@60, That’s why Repugs and trolls would make terrible Diplomats. Maybe they think a little contact will make them gay or something?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Their colossal ignorance blinds them to the fact that being respectful and affable does not make you or lead you to be gay ……….
November 16th, 2009 at 10:47 amAlejandro is obviously one of those trailer trash hicks that doesn’t know to say please and thank you. Doesn’t bother to get up when a visitor comes to his house. He just sits in his recliner and keeps watching television omitting the occasional belch without an excuse me.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:48 amOur country is facing an unaffordable health care crisis, record unemployment, two costly and failed wars, bailed out banks not borrowing money, laws yet to be put in place to prevent banks and Wall Street from committing major theft again and KKKarl Rove brings up President Obama bowing.
It’s good to know where KKKarl and the republicans priorities are.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:49 amAlejandro says:
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November 16th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Jake Crapper has ZERO credibility tool ; and he proves as much.
In the link you copied and pasted , Jake (the Snake) doesn’t even reveal the name of this so-called academic friend ; how incredibly and typically weak ……….
November 16th, 2009 at 10:51 amRove appears to have bowing in Japan confused with bowing in the United Kingdom.
In the United Kingdom, it’s customary to bow (if male) or curtsy (if female) in the presence of royalty. One does not normally bow in the presence of commoners. Americans seem to be divided on whether or not Americans should bow or curtsy (Nancy Reagan got flak from some for curtsying before the Queen, for example, while others thought it was no biggie).
In Japan, however, bowing is traditionally used for greeting anyone — similar to our custom of shaking hands. To declare that the POTUS shouldn’t bow to the Emperor of Japan is to declare that our POTUS shouldn’t shake hands with him.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:52 amThe inane notion of “American exceptionalism” is what leads the low information types to believe that we are above showing respect to other countries. Well now that we’ve been shown as a country that wages unnecessary wars that spin us into bankruptcy and cowards that torture and violate laws and treaties and a people with so little conviction that we’re not willing to pay taxes for those wars what exactly are we exceptional at?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:52 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
No offense, but the only thing we can learn from your crew is the disaster of following your errors in thinking.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:53 amIt’s hilarious that the trolls can’t find anything else to bash Obama for isn’t it?
Seriously, Obama is respected across the board, bush was despised across the board.
You trolls didn’t know squat about forign policy and you proved it during bush. Shut up and sit down.
We have a real statesman for a president now.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:54 amSo…was Jake Tapper’s friend a Japanese person? I suppose we’re to take his word as bond?
I’m still waiting for Cheney to apologize for not bowing at all.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:54 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
You Republican fools don’t realize that he was completely aware of the reaction he would get over the infamous bow?
It shows he has a back bone by the fact that he doesn’t give a crap what you think.
I’m glad his foreign policy stresses respect for other nations and US trade and security over Republican idiotic ’saving face’ concerns..
please – just dive on your own swords.. you dishonor the nation.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:55 am“The bow as he performed did not just display weakness in Red State terms, but evoked weakness in Japanese terms…
Red State terms?
LOL
If one compares cultures, the Japanese culture is far older, and rooted in respect.
Red State culture?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:56 amJuvenile at best, and rooted in slavery and bigotry.
Alejandro says:
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November 16th, 2009 at 10:52 am
No need to fear …..The Japanese Emperor would keep you for kitty litter ; no bowing would be necessary on your part………
November 16th, 2009 at 10:56 amroof is leaking, I wouldn’t send my dog to you for training.
Your advertisements alone drive everyone away.
When did you ever get anything right? Anything?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:56 amAmazing that the wingnuts think stuff like bowing to a Japanese leader is a better indication of relative weakness or strength in a political or diplomatic relationship than actual results.
People who believe that are also the kind of people who believe church attendance is a better indication of how closely one follows Christ than is the manner in which one treats his fellow humans.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:57 amAlejandro says:
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Why the hell would I get up when the Dukes of Hazzard is on?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Because your “svelte” 375 pound frame could use the exercise ……Plus , it may stop the nauseatingly constant flatulence ……..Somehow , I doubt it, though ….
November 16th, 2009 at 10:59 amIn the wealthiest neighborhoods kids go to etiquette classes where they learn things like table manners that will help them not look like idiots when they are out in the real world. It’s another way the rich get richer while the inbred crackers stay in their double wide complaining that it is the brown people keeping them down. Yeah, I’m looking at you Alejandro.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:59 amYes, Obama tried, Alejandro. So did Clinton. I’m actually quite displeased that the New York Times was just as culturally outraged at Clinton back in 1993. Any time someone can show some effort to understand another culture, that’s one step closer to true global comradery.
Bush and Cheney did not attempt to understand other cultures. Apparently, neither did baka na Rove-san.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:00 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
People with a low-class mentality mistake respect and kindness for weakness to their own detriment.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:01 amYOU WOULDN’T. That was my point, Einstein. /eyeroll
November 16th, 2009 at 11:01 amThe GOP has been taken over by fools. Anyone with (R)associated to the name is an absolute fool.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:01 amWhadda these LYING chickenhawks gonna say to Jesus when he calls them HYPOCRITES???
November 16th, 2009 at 11:03 amroof is leaking, we did watch you and learn….what not to do.
Progressives already knew it but now all of America knows it.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:03 am“Rufus Leaking”
Time to see your urologist.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:04 amDon’t wait…
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Alejandro says:
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Purple State says:
So…was Jake Tapper’s friend a Japanese person? I suppose we’re to take his word as bond?
Kyodo News refuses to show pictures of the bow. It’s embarrassing to them.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:00 am
And you got that bit of unsubstantiated crap from whom ?
Hirohito’s ghost ? Shut up , already , jackass ……
November 16th, 2009 at 11:05 amOkay, so has our Twajie troll explained yet why what Bush did was acceptable, and what Obama did was not?
Or are we to assume he doesn’t really care either way, he’s just here to disrupt a meaningful and productive thread?
I’ll place my bet on the latter.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:06 amMaybe you’ve got something besides your word that this is true. Otherwise it means less than nothing.
See, the difference is, you have to make things up about democrats.
Republicans, well, it’s all there for the world to see and no one on the planet liked it.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:06 amIt is interesting that the GOP thinks this issue is important enough to complain about. All those out of work Americans are worried half to death about that bow.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:07 amThe Sons of Katie Elder says:
“First Alejandro claims he’s watching “The Dukes of Hazard”, then he says he watch Kyoto tv. He’s a bit mixed up.”
He’s afraid to miss Daisy Duke bending over.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:07 amAnd actually.. I watched the entire town hall speech and questions..
I was quite shocked by his bold statements about freedom being universal.. it was something he returned to over and over.
I was impressed by it – it was very cocky… and could be seen as borderline disrespectful if you wanted to view it that way. Myself I found it an appropriate showing of confidence and strength.. it wasn’t soft at all.. and none of his speeches at these types of event ever are. The Cairo speech as well as others have had moments in them where I thought ‘wow… he actually just came out and said it?!’ Strong statements, no pulled punches. Came to say something and said it straight out. Honest and to the point without being offensive to the respective country.
But, course you don’t see Republicans commenting on these things.. they’re stuck on the stupid bow.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:08 am@ 48. Alejandro …
“I’m laughing at the whole thing.”? Methinks thee doth protest too much.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:08 amAlejandro says:
like strom thurman? Like newt? Like jeb bush?
Yeah, real polite.
Maybe we should talk about beer or somthing else that you might really know something about.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:09 amBut when they go to their first business lunch at stick their napkins in their collars everybody knows their hicks hence the need for proper etiquette.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:10 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Alejandro says:
here’s what Japanese papers had to say about it. Read it and weep:
霜 鬄 觔 鋐 莔 魨 襰 鋚
鬄 觔 鋐 罈 飼 霜 色 稴
November 16th, 2009 at 11:12 amWhipping their kids….yes, that is illustrative of your way of thinking here isn’t it? The method you appear to prefer begets violence and doesn’t require patience or thoughtful self-control…not surprising given your past utterances…
November 16th, 2009 at 11:12 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I rest my case. Don’t try to learn etiquette and make something of yourself. Just blame everybody else for being a loser. It’s what you teabagger types do.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:15 amAlejandro says:
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Shayne says:
It is interesting that the GOP thinks this issue is important enough to complain about. All those out of work Americans are worried half to death about that bow.
Maybe while all the politicians are jetting around impressing each other with their impressive handshakes and bows, the people can forget about them and figure out how to make their lives better in spite of the politicians. Ah, but then that tax bill rolls around.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Unless you’re uber-wealthy ; then those unconscionable Bush tax cuts for the rich sure come in handy , don’t they , moron ?
November 16th, 2009 at 11:15 amalejanderiouboo, how about a link that verifies your lie?
No link? Man, I am shocked, shocked I tell ya.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:16 amTeabagging hicks, how did Obama’s paying of respect to a foreign Head of State affect your life? Seriously, you inbred hicks have zero lives if you really are having such a hissy fit about this. Grow up, get a life, dolts.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:18 am“Low-class mentality” is one explanation, but I rather think it’s more of a reflection of an inferiority complex. When one is always worried about one’s position in the world, respect for others must feel like weakness.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:18 amAlejandro says:
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Yeah, when someone whips something into shape, they literally whip it. Uh huh.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Claims the moron who still believes that the term “enhanced interrogation techniques” were exactly that , and not torture , which they actually were …………
November 16th, 2009 at 11:19 am“You people”…nice…And don’t play offended, you don’t wear it well…
November 16th, 2009 at 11:19 amI see the trolls (and that includes Rove and his friends at FAUX) are celebrating their ignorance.
Yes, being ignorant of the customs in other cultures is really something you want to shout about.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:20 amOne wonders why the Presidents actions abroad are so criticized when religious zelots in our government,(Congressman and Senators) who visit foreign countries, meet with illegitimate governments, bad mouth the President and his policies, tell foreign governments not to trust us, and even millitary generals can’t keep their mouths shut across the pond.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:21 amThey want us to focus on the bow and try to ignore the Dow. Over 125 up as of 10:20 CST. Wow.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:22 amI notice that Politico is not too interested in what Karl Rove has to say, I wonder why? Maybe because they know he is a lying pile of horse manure just earning a paycheck for bashing Obama on Fox and he has no relevance.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:23 amI suppose it’s interesting that protocol issues, especially non-verbal language and cues, always brings out the “against it” crowd. The fact that they resent anyone who doesn’t observe their own customs would come close to rank hypocrisy if it weren’t unconscious or an irrational disconnect.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:26 amRove, the guy who loved the imprint a chewing tobacco canister left on Dubbies back blue jean pocket.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:26 amYou must be the living example…
November 16th, 2009 at 11:28 amAlejandro says:
Kyodo News refuses to show pictures of the bow. It’s embarrassing to them.
Embarrassing to the news service?
The government?
All of Japan?
November 16th, 2009 at 11:28 amThe same people who don’t believe in evolution don’t believe in proper etiquette. Shocker.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:28 amAt least he didn’t make out with the Saudi King like Bush did.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:28 amAlejandro’s lack of evidence is the evidence. Wingnut logic.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:30 amYou mcarthyites should bear that in mind
November 16th, 2009 at 11:31 amRufus Leaking says:
“…you won’t think it’s funny when they drop a bomb on your head.”
Says the man with the holy roof.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:35 amSo now you’re war mongering against the Japanese?
How much fear is enough for you?
November 16th, 2009 at 11:36 amBush plants a big wet one on the guy that funded Al Queda.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:39 amYou’re such a dumbass.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:40 amhey roofisleaking, just for kicks, how about naming one thing the right has gotten correct.
economy
November 16th, 2009 at 11:42 amWMD’s
anything?
Where was the right’s outrage when Bush called the Pope Sir instead of his Holiness?
November 16th, 2009 at 11:42 amhellina, they found that endearing. They think that forign policy is treating all other countries with distain.
We are supposed to look down our noses at everyone, everywhere.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:44 amFochs and fwends (the republicans) got…
Nuthin.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:46 amI haven’t been paying much attention the last few days. Is Rufus Leaking serious, or just an ineffective parody troll?
November 16th, 2009 at 11:50 amyeah, like alex saying things that are lies and he can’t back up?
You come in insulting and then cry like a little baby when you get return fire.
stay out of my foxhole coward.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:52 amGive it a rest…this is not the spot for knee-jerk reactionaries…btw, ‘they’ aren’t dropping bombs, we are…
November 16th, 2009 at 11:52 amRufus, try looking in alternate reality for the poor schmuck you are tryin to reach.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:56 amRufus
You and Alehandjob bother because you are trolls begging for attention both of you are morons. Respect is something you give to others as their due till they show they no longer deserve it if you expect it in return. Protocol is what it is. You bow to the Emporer. In the oval office the Emporer would stand when the president does. All this is what is DONE. It is NOT obesience. In Japan people bow to each other. If you were an American businessman IN Japan you would bow to your counterpart. An American president SHOULD show proper respect to other leaders. If anything the exception I would make would be England since we used to be a colony.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:57 amhow old are you?
November 16th, 2009 at 11:58 am“If we can just reach that guy then it will all be worth it.”
* * *
YOU people seem to believe that if democrats are unhappy with the progress of Mr. Obama, we’ll switch sides and vote for a republican . .
BWAAAAAAAAA, whadda you smoking??
November 16th, 2009 at 11:59 amMaybe Karl could better spend his time asking George to tell the President where Bin Laden is enjoying his free time lately. I’m sure the Bush and Bin Laden families are still in touch.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:59 amFred, I think the next move is for Rufus to play the “I’m Rubber, You’re Glue” card.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:00 pmRufus
Just how stupid ARE you anyway? You said WHEN they drop a bomb on your head. That isnt referencing a sixty plus year old Pearl Harbor it is talking about the future. Just how utterly stupid do you have to be to think Japan is going to bomb us? Perhaps you should skip your normal stupid pill I think you have had enough
November 16th, 2009 at 12:01 pmEven chimpanzees have a code of etiquette. These right-wing a$$holes have devolved from the apes.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:01 pmRufus Leaking says:
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November 16th, 2009 at 11:50 am
“Open minds” like you pair of tools that worship at the (smelly) feet of documented liars and morons like Limbaugh , Beck and Bible Spice Palin ?
Yer funny …………………………
November 16th, 2009 at 12:04 pmRalph, Eugene will lay it out or roofisleaking.
I admire Eugene’s finess with trolls.
They are so weak and pathetic these days. I almost miss mantastic…..ugh.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:05 pmGeorge Bush didnt show proper ettiquette, except to the Saudi Oil barons whose ass he kissed regularly, because he was an arrogant A$$hole. THAT is just the kind of image the rightwing wants our president to give of America. It mirrors THEM, arrogant, stupid and belligerant
November 16th, 2009 at 12:05 pmRufus: “I don’t know why Alejandro and I even bother with you folks. All you do is name call. No honest debate.”
Rufus, you’re a kid in a creative writing class. You don’t know shit from shinola. You’ve proven this by coming on and siding with the most absurd troll in this discussion, a fool who thinks a somehow improper bow in Japan seems to show that Obama is just as much of a bumbler as GW Bush.
If all we had to complain about 10 or 11 months into your GW Bush’s first term was improper etiquette, we would have been lucky. What would little a-holes like you have been saying if Obama laid around, did nothing and allowed the most lethal terrorist attack on our nation in history on his watch? Why you’d be calling for his removal from office. You know damn good and well you would. So unless you’ve got anything of substance to add to this conversation, go back to bird-dogging that girl in your creative writing class until you learn a little more about the real world than what your neanderthal conservative of a Dad has been feeding you all these years.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:06 pmBush swapping spit and holding hands with the Saudi king is just fine with the wingnuts.
Bush groping Angela Merkel is just fine with the wingnuts.
Bush spitting bread crumbs everywhere while speaking to Tony Blair with his mouth full is just fine with the wingnuts.
Bush ogling the ass of an American volleyball player at the Olympics is just fine with the wingnuts.
Bush reeling drunkenly around the Olympics in front of the entire world is just fine with the wingnuts.
Need I go on….?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:06 pmBut you kept it going…Geez, My own children don’t use such a lame excuse…
November 16th, 2009 at 12:06 pmlay it out for….
dang
November 16th, 2009 at 12:06 pmThank you Fred I appreciate that
November 16th, 2009 at 12:07 pmShut up, KKKarl……Apparently after 8 years of the Boy King Bush, Americans are totally ignorant of manners and protocol when greeting foreign dignitaries………Obama studies and pays tribute to the culture of other countries--something that Bushie ignored completely. Thus, our reputation around the world was completely kaput. It’s gonna take 8 years of Obama to restore our country’s dignity and reputation among our fellow nation-states. Insensitive clods like Bush and Cheney could take a lesson as to why the rest of the world hates us.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:10 pmsure you did. We believe that about as much as the rest of the lies.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:15 pmSo, what Rove is saying is that we shouldn’t use the local customs when greeting a foreign leader. So of they bow, we just stand there.
Now imagine the right-wing shrieks if they foreign leader snubbed us: Our president offers his hand for a handshake, and they foreign leader refuses because they feel it’s beneath them. The right-wingers would insist that we bomb them for the snub.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:18 pmRufus
You and Alejandro have minds only open to regurgitating what you were told to believe. Propaganda parrots and hiveminders dont have open minds they have open MIKES to record their programming. You two morons are too stupid to THINK. Your alleged minds are recording devices. Sheeple like you are DELUDED, not open minded.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:18 pmHey Rufus – since you’re in a creative writing class, you may have missed this, since it happened 8 or 9 years ago. You were probably playing Power Rangers at the time, but here’s what happened:
- A conservative Supreme Court over-ruled the Florida Supreme Court’s order to re-count all the votes and awarded the office of President to GW Bush (a subsequent study showed that if all the votes were counted, Al Gore would have been the winner.)
- In spite of spirited requests from the outgoing Clinton administration that they pay a lot of attention to Osama bin Laden and his crew, the record shows that the Bush administration removed terrorism experts from Cabinet meetings, ignored numerous warnings from the CIA and the FAA, ignored or didn’t act on numerous warnings from other countries’ intelligence agencies and actually ordered NORAD to stand down in the days before the 9-11 attack.
- In spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the Bush administration blamed the attack on Iraq and proceeded to build a case to invade Iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction and were a threat to our country. You may have been old enough by this time to understand the news reports indicating that this had been all wrong – that the case they built for war was based on lies and distortions of fact.
A million Iraqis and over 4000 American soldiers paid the ultimate price for these lies committed by an administration that shouldn’t have even been allowed to take office…
Can you begin to understand how annoying it is to see a kid in a creative writing course agree that Obama is as bumbling as Bush because of a perceived improper bow?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:19 pmWould you two get a room?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:22 pmJittery about the implication? Don’t be, it’s ok if you’re gay.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:22 pmCalling the bow “inappropriate,” Rove wondered, “what’s that all about?”
***********************************************************
Gee, I dunno…maybe because in Japan, it’s traditional for people to bow to one another as a sign of respect rather than submission????
Maybe if Rove weren’t such an unbelievably arrogant and rabidly ethnocentric nationalist who believes that the United States should be entitled to rule the globe rather than be part of a global community, he would have known that…
Oh, wait…who am I kidding? This is Karl Rove we’re talking about…he thinks many of his fellow Americans (i.e., non-neoconservatives) don’t deserve any respect, so why would he care whether a bunch of foreigners are shown proper respect?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:25 pm“…Obama SHOULD stop bowing to monarchies…”
According to the rules of etiquette that are generally accepted by people in Western cultures, Heads of State do not bow to other Heads of State because only people subservient to a Head of State bow.
Having said that, it is important to note that the bow in Japan is exactly what the handshake in America is: a greeting. The act of bowing in Japan is not a matter of subservience, although the depth of the bow is. A bow between equals should be the same depth – just as a handshake between equals should not be a contest of who can crush who’s fingers.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:26 pmTOO MUCH INFORMATION. YUCH.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:27 pmDon’t hurt yourself.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:29 pmLook out ninerFan, roofisleaking is bored with alex and looking for someone new.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:30 pmRufus Leaking says:
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Liz, I don’t know why you’re laughing. Remember, Alejandro and I found each other here.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
And Match.com is now green with absolute envy ………
November 16th, 2009 at 12:31 pmroofisleaking, you brought up your “relationship” with Alex, not us.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:32 pmRufus Leaking says:
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Can we please leave the homo stuff out of the discussion?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
That means you would have to leave …………….
November 16th, 2009 at 12:32 pmTo Roofus Leaky and AliHandjob,
Please, guys, take your bromance off-line and make sure you was your hands before you come back…
November 16th, 2009 at 12:33 pmdoes this ignoramus not know that Japan has elections?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:39 pmRove likes holding hands and light kisses, and sucking wang.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:42 pm“Rove Attacks Obama For Bowing: He Should Do What All Presidents Have Done And ‘Not Bow To Monarchies’”
Oh, please… Tubby McTreason Rove should be in prison. Is this news? Obama’s bowing??? Not a single word from the media of the former clown President holding hands with the Saudi leader. Yet, Obama’s bowing becomes headlines.
**shaking my head*** The dumbing down of the media.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:42 pmNinerFan at 169 – SMACKDOWN!! That one’s gonna leave a mark. ;o)
Good job!
November 16th, 2009 at 12:42 pmFred says:
hey roofisleaking, just for kicks, how about naming one thing the right has gotten correct.
economy
WMD’s
anything?
————————
NinerFan says:
In spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the Bush administration blamed the attack on Iraq and proceeded to build a case to invade Iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction and were a threat to our country. You may have been old enough by this time to understand the news reports indicating that this had been all wrong – that the case they built for war was based on lies and distortions of fact.
____________________________________________________
Even though this is off topic, I’d like to respond to Fred’s question and NinerFan’s comments about WMDs. I agree that the American people were lied to and led to believe that Iraq possessed WMDs and that those WMDs were a threat to our national security. But why would both parties flaunt the WMD lie to make a case for war, both before and after the W Bush administration? And why does revisionist history lay this debacle squarely at the feet of the GOP? The Democrats were fanning the flames of war for several years and then voted to approve military force (29-21 in the Senate) against a nation that never attacked the U.S., thereby giving their stamp of approval on preeminent strikes. The idea that the Democrats were duped into approving the Iraq war is nonsense, especially after reading and listening to their propaganda dating back to the mid/late ‘90s.
And before everyone starts insulting me, I am not a Republican, just an American citizen trying to understand the nature of government and calling ‘em like I see ‘em.
“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
“Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.”
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force– if necessary– to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
“Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real …”
November 16th, 2009 at 12:46 pm- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
FVNY says:
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November 16th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Please point out where any Dem insisted that use of force should be the 1st option , and not as a LAST RESORT , which is what the Iraq Resolution stated ……….
November 16th, 2009 at 12:50 pmPoliteness is just a foriegn concept to these people (and you know we don’t take to foriegners).
November 16th, 2009 at 12:51 pmBecause bush lied to them. It’s a fact, look it up.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:51 pmPlease point out where any Dem insisted that use of force should be the 1st option , and not as a LAST RESORT , which is what the Iraq Resolution stated ……….
___________________________________________
I guess you conveniently forgot Operation Desert Fox in December 1998. Just a few months after the letter Clinton received from Daschle, Levin and Kerry urging airstrikes.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:54 pmFVNY says:
Some of the dates were well before the inspectors were in Iraq, on the ground proclaiming that there were no WMD. As far as the 2002 statements by Kerry, he was responding to the lies of the Bush Administration intelligence reports.
Who was president and ordered the unilateral attack, unnecessarily, unlawfully, and immorally on Iraq in 2003? It doesn’t matter what anyone said, who was in charge and who ordered the attack? That is the question. Most of us quit pointing at others for an excuse in the fourth grade but wingnuts never quit.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:58 pmFVNY says:
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Please point out where any Dem insisted that use of force should be the 1st option , and not as a LAST RESORT , which is what the Iraq Resolution stated ……….
___________________________________________
I guess you conveniently forgot Operation Desert Fox in December 1998. Just a few months after the letter Clinton received from Daschle, Levin and Kerry urging airstrikes.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Oh , so now an air strike is the equivalent of an idiotic (and illegal) wholesale military invasion ?
BTW
How many US casualties resulted from Operation Desert Fox ?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:59 pmfv, that still didn’t make it the first choice. Also, if you remember, you on the right put a slow wobble on that effort, calling it wag the dog…….
people believed there were wmd’s because they were listening to the us intelligence as presented by bush who did the unthinkable and lied about what he was getting in order to start a war.
It’s history dude. NPR has a documentary on it.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:59 pmFVNY?
We’ve been over this and over this… they voted for the AUMF in Iraq… which everyone in the Bush administration said was what they needed to really get tough on Saddam through the UN.
And where were the WMD?
Didn’t Cheney say we knew where they were?
They weren’t there?!?!
That’s weird.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:01 pmRufus Leaking says:
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November 16th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
I find it side-splittingly hilarious that Bush Adoration Brigade members such as you view yourselves as worthy and qualified to determine who is or isn’t a patriotic American …
November 16th, 2009 at 1:01 pmFVNY
Desert Fox was 98. Almost all of those quotes were from BEFORE the inspectors went back INTO Iraq and we were getting NEW intelligence that was telling us the WMDs were NOT there. IT was the BUSH administration that demanded the inspectors leave and we invade when they were IN IRAQ going wherever they wanted and said they needed only a few more months to finish. All of those quotes were broad statements of belief and NOT the outright specific LIES like the Bush administration told. Like their LIES about the aluminum tubes or the FLAT OUT LIE Bush told about the IAEA report that NEVER EXISTED. Bush didnt CARE if there were WMDs he wanted to invade Iraq WHATEVER the excuse. Blame the Dems for being gullible but the MAJORITY of Dems voted AGAINST the use of force resolution, they dont deserve anywhere NEAR the culpability of Bush and your weak appolgies are ludicrous
November 16th, 2009 at 1:02 pmRufus is applauding he finally found someone as STUPID as he and Alehandjob are. Lets give them a round of applause. I always appreciate a free clown show
November 16th, 2009 at 1:04 pmRufus Leaking says:
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Operation Desert Fox has been a quagmire ever since. And they didn’t find any WMD’s, don’t conveniently forget that too.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Operation Desert Fox was a FOUR DAY bombing campaign in 1998 by the United States and United Kingdom , you colossal moron ………
November 16th, 2009 at 1:04 pmSeriously Rufus. Seek help immediatly
November 16th, 2009 at 1:06 pmWow, I’m almost surprised by the lengths to which Americans will go to to make excuses for their political party. Face it, the Democrats have to assume responsibility for Iraq. I agree that Bush and the Neo-Cons were in power and therefore deserve to shoulder more of the blame. But to give the Democrats a pass is just burying your heads in the sand.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:07 pmFVNY says:
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Wow, I’m almost surprised by the lengths to which Americans will go to to make excuses for their political party. Face it, the Democrats have to assume responsibility for Iraq. I agree that Bush and the Neo-Cons were in power and therefore deserve to shoulder more of the blame. But to give the Democrats a pass is just burying your heads in the sand.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Wow ……..I’m not at all surprised that you ignored the VOTE COUNT :
United States House of Representatives
Republicans-215 AYES / 6 NAYS Democratic – 82 AYES/126 NAYS
United States Senate
Democratic – 29 AYES/21 Nays
Republicans – 48 AYES/ 1 LOUSY NAY
You find those totals anywere near equal ?
Are you drunk ???????????????
November 16th, 2009 at 1:14 pmThe Republicans couldnt have passed the resolution without Democratic votes.
And no, I haven’t had any drinks yet today!
November 16th, 2009 at 1:15 pmFVNY
It amazes ME how far cons will go to revise history. The Dems get SOME blame for being gullible. Some for the spinelessness and trying to look tough. The majority of Dems voted AGAINST the use of force amendment its just that simple. The Bush administration told OUTRIGHT LIES to take us into Iraq. There is no EQUIVALANCY here and to pretend there is not only is dishonest but flat out stupid.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:15 pmFVNY?
No one is giving Democrats a pass… but your attempt to bury them in Bush’s quagmire without noting that
a)the vote was pitched as a ’stick’ in order to get Saddam to cooperate with UN inspections.
and
b)the President and his people PROMISED that they KNEW right where the WMD were and that they would NOT invade unless they felt they HAD to.
Sounds like you’d like to blame the Toad and the Scorpion equally for that whole river crossing debacle… and while the Toad SHOULD have known better, it’s true, to say that the Toad has to assume responsibility is bizarre to me…
November 16th, 2009 at 1:16 pmFVNY but you apparntly had your bowl of STUPID for breakfast. I suggest you follow it up with a nice steaming hot cup of STFU until you have some dim idea what you are talking about instead of continuing to regurgitate inane talking points WELL after their sell by date
November 16th, 2009 at 1:17 pmbelacifer
That slapdown was a thing of beauty
November 16th, 2009 at 1:19 pmThat’s our point. Iraq is your war. It would not have happened if bush had not been installed, period.
When you want to be reasonable and accept that responsibility, we might take you seriously. Until then…….you are irrelivant.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:19 pmdanke…
November 16th, 2009 at 1:19 pmIt amazes ME how far cons will go to revise history. The Dems get SOME blame for being gullible. Some for the spinelessness and trying to look tough. The majority of Dems voted AGAINST the use of force amendment its just that simple. The Bush administration told OUTRIGHT LIES to take us into Iraq. There is no EQUIVALANCY here and to pretend there is not only is dishonest but flat out stupid.
________________________________________________
Equivalency, no.
But how about responsibility?
Are you happy about how your elected representatives handled the matter? Everyone knows the Republicans screwed up big time and they’re paying the price now for their deceit and mismanagement of the country. So why make excuses for the Democrats? The Democratic Party must be happy to know that your votes are so easily attained!
November 16th, 2009 at 1:21 pmFVNY says:
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The Republicans couldnt have passed the resolution without Democratic votes.
And no, I haven’t had any drinks yet today!
November 16th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I am not attempting to claim that the Democratic Party is full of the best and brightest throughout the entire ranks ; but it is painfully obvious that the GOP is UNRIVALED when it comes to the worst and most stupid that constitutes their crappy party ………
November 16th, 2009 at 1:22 pmAgain, the Democrats got LIED to.
They shouldn’t have fallen for the LIES but that doesn’t change the fact that they (and we) were LIED to.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:23 pmFVNY says:
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Equivalency, no.
But how about responsibility?
Are you happy about how your elected representatives handled the matter? Everyone knows the Republicans screwed up big time and they’re paying the price now for their deceit and mismanagement of the country. So why make excuses for the Democrats? The Democratic Party must be happy to know that your votes are so easily attained!
November 16th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT
To this day , Republicans refuse to accept and admit that Bush’s Idiotic Iraq Invasion was a complete and colossal mistake , while several Dems have publicly admitted to being dreadfully wrong.
Stop posting nonsensical crap …………
November 16th, 2009 at 1:25 pmFVNY
Can you READ? Did you not see me say more than once the Dems deeserve SOME criticism? However YOU are trying to spread the blame as if there WERE equivalancy. You arguments to do so are weak and frankly stupid. You act as if ANY Dems helped the war in ANY way that means we need to spread the blame. When the Bush administration told OUTRIGHT LIES to start the war and SOME Dems were spewing SOME rhetoric. It is JUST like Belacifer said. You want to tell us we need to blame the TOAD for the scorpion stinging him. On the RIGHT we have OUTRIGHT LIES. On the left we have gullible and bandwagon jumping. Lets be sure to spread that blame though. You are ridicuous
November 16th, 2009 at 1:28 pmYou really should get to know him before you join for a threesome.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:35 pmThis thread has been hijacked – FVNY, if you want to discuss the relative responsibilities for Iraq, that could be a long and interesting conversation. But tell me, how do you feel about President Obama bowing to the Emperor of Japan?
November 16th, 2009 at 1:35 pmFVNY says:
Are you happy about how your elected representatives handled the matter?
As a matter of fact, I, speaking as a someone who is “trying to understand the nature of government and calling ‘em like I see ‘em” was not happy at all that the Democrats couldn’t see through the Bush/Cheney lies and those that voted ‘Aye’ did not earn my respect that day.
I mean, I could see through the lies, so why couldn’t they, right? Did they know something I didn’t? Were they perhaps acting out of the knowledge that Rove and his buddies would do everything in their power to label them as ‘Un-American’? ‘Naive’? ‘Weak’? – if they didn’t go along with their agenda? You know, like they are currently attempting to do with Obama when he acts in a reasonable, measured manner?
It must be nice to be able to stand back and slam both parties like that. The Democrats certainly aren’t perfect but they certainly represent me better than the Repugs do so they’re going to get my support as much as possible, warts and all.
Which party gets your support?
November 16th, 2009 at 1:37 pmMary
THAT was very well said. I felt the same way. I could see through the lies why couldnt they. I think they were spineless for the most part. They are SO afraid of the right painting them as unpatriotic for NOT supporting the war or anti military they caved. Still the Bush administration told shamelss outright lies. I am not a Dem. I havent been since 2000 I was criticising Dems too at the TIME. Having said that to pretend there is ANY sort of equivalance of blame is just ridiculous.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:40 pmHmmm, seems that while I was at work another Marie has been posting here.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:44 pmI am not in disagreement, but there could be trouble with two of the same name.
I started to leave a comment on Obozo bowing again, but there’s obviously no intelligent life here. Just a bunch of loony lefties.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:25 pmtheladyorthetiger,
I was simply responding to comments from others about WMDs. Sorry for going off topic.
As far as Obama bowing, I think its a non-issue. Americans spend far too much time debating trivial issues. BHO attempting to show respect for another culture is no reason to disparage him.
In regard to culpability for wars, does anyone agree that the Republicans are partially to blame for not fighting harder to end the policy of containment that lead to 56,000 Americans dead in Vietnam? The Democrats should shoulder the majority of the blame there but Republicans could have done something to stop it. And that’s my point about Iraq. Just saying that the Dems were lied to let’s them off the hook.
And in response to the question regarding my political affiliation, I consider myself an independent. I would say I’m socially liberal and fiscally conservative. So as you can imagine, I have major issues with both parties. I know that a lot of Americans feel that being Independent is a cop-out and that taking the side of one of the two major parties is necessary, but I think that supporting one party exclusively only allows that party to continue to wreak havoc on America.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:30 pmDMac
How would you know? You are so stupid cats laugh at you. You brainwashed morons dont even have the intellectual capacity of a kiwi fruit. The fact you are too stupid to even RECOGNIZE higher brain function much less accomplish the feat is obvious. Keep coming back though. I DO love to laugh at morons a stupid as you
November 16th, 2009 at 2:42 pmFVNY
IF your point is that both parties share responsibility for our irresponsible imperialism over the last Century or so, then while true you picked a really stupid example to make that point. The GOP and the Bush administration specifically told OUTRIGHT LIES to get their war. Neither of your examples is even in the ballpark. I am in neither party. The winner take all two party system marginalizes all but the Center. That is a shame. There are things we could do about it but as long as America overall is comfortable the way things are we will be stuck with this corporate/business run society. What Bush did was arguably criminal. Being WRONG like the internment, which we have ADMITTED was wrong and Vietnam which we are still in denial about are not the same. Though it is arguable that the Gulf of Tonkin ploy makes them comparable.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:47 pmD_Mac says:
I started to leave a comment on Obozo bowing again, but there’s obviously no intelligent life here. Just a bunch of loony lefties.
Good to see you’re smart to get out before the kitchen gets too hot.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:54 pmDbigmac
Coward, punk, AND moron. The wingnut trifecta
November 16th, 2009 at 2:57 pmFVNY
IF your point is that both parties share responsibility for our irresponsible imperialism over the last Century or so, then while true you picked a really stupid example to make that point. The GOP and the Bush administration specifically told OUTRIGHT LIES to get their war. Neither of your examples is even in the ballpark. I am in neither party. The winner take all two party system marginalizes all but the Center. That is a shame. There are things we could do about it but as long as America overall is comfortable the way things are we will be stuck with this corporate/business run society. What Bush did was arguably criminal. Being WRONG like the internment, which we have ADMITTED was wrong and Vietnam which we are still in denial about are not the same. Though it is arguable that the Gulf of Tonkin ploy makes them comparable.
____________________________________________________
The Neocons definitely lied to go to war with Iraq. No doubt about it. But I think the Democrats propaganda over the years makes them at least PARTIALLY responsible. Allowing them to posture as if they are the anti-war party now just because they cast a few votes against the resolution is re-writing history. I don’t think that was a stupid example at all. This country has wanted a war with Iraq since the late ’80s. And both parties fanned the flames. The Neocons then exploited 9/11 to make it happen. But pretending that only one party looks to make war is just wrong. History tells us the opposite!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:01 pmFVNY
Yes it WAS a stupid example for the reasons stated and a MAJORITY of Dems voted against that resolution so stop with the A FEW VOTES distortion. Be honest. Saddam WAS a bad guy. He DESERVED a lot of harsh criticism. If we had wanted to go to war in 83 or 88 I could have been convinced. I think he comitted crimes against humanity. The Dems OVERALL were NOT pushing for an invasion in 02 its that simple. The Bush administration was LYING and hellbent for war on ANY pretext. It is a bad example. Historically the Dems deserve as much blame as the GOP for our shameful foriegn policy. I think overall we have a lot of agreement here but your repeating this rightwing talking point is weak. In THIS instance there is NO way Dems deserve more than a small portion of the blame a very small portion. This was the Bush adminstrations war pure and simple. Bush was the sine qua non of the Iraq war this cannot be disputed rationally.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:11 pmFVNY says:
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November 16th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
The “few” votes in Congress , where almost TWO-THIRDS of the Dems voted against the Iraq War Resolution and where almost half the Senate Dems voted in the same manner ?
Do you actually read your own drivel before hitting the “Submit Comment” button ?
November 16th, 2009 at 3:12 pmD_Mac says:
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November 16th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
What “intelligent comment” did you leave when Bush the Boy Blunder was embracing and dancing with the Saudi royals , you GOP nut hugging moron ?
November 16th, 2009 at 3:15 pmYes it WAS a stupid example for the reasons stated and a MAJORITY of Dems voted against that resolution so stop with the A FEW VOTES distortion. Be honest. Saddam WAS a bad guy. He DESERVED a lot of harsh criticism. If we had wanted to go to war in 83 or 88 I could have been convinced. I think he comitted crimes against humanity. The Dems OVERALL were NOT pushing for an invasion in 02 its that simple. The Bush administration was LYING and hellbent for war on ANY pretext. It is a bad example. Historically the Dems deserve as much blame as the GOP for our shameful foriegn policy. I think overall we have a lot of agreement here but your repeating this rightwing talking point is weak. In THIS instance there is NO way Dems deserve more than a small portion of the blame a very small portion. This was the Bush adminstrations war pure and simple. Bush was the sine qua non of the Iraq war this cannot be disputed rationally.
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I already admitted that the NeoCons were to blame. But I also said that the Dems should be held PARTIALLY to blame also. What part of PARTIALLY do you not understand? Many top level Democrats voiced approval for the war and 111 of them voted to give Bush authority to wage war. I doesn’t matter if more Democrats voted against. If they would have all voted against, Bush would have never received approval. It was a politically shrewd move by the Democrats. Either way, they came out looking great. If the war was a success, then they put aside partisan politics to do what was good for the country. If it failed, then people like you would give them a pass by saying they were lied to or forced into it by the Republicans. You can continue to believe that if you want. I’m a bit more cynical of politicians.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:23 pmIf ALL the Dems voted against it. So though a majority of Dems DID that isnt good enough. You want to SPREAD the blame. It is a way to deflect the criticism Bush and the GOP DESERVE. Dems dont DO lockstep. To you either they DO or they get communal approbation. It is silly. The Dems didnt tell LIES. They gave Saddam criticism he DESERVED. Without Bush there would have been no WAR. Its that simple. The GOP was basically LOCKSTEP for the war, they convinced a few gullible Dems with lies but hey its THEIR fault too. They deserve VERY little criticism. Some but its NOT in the same BALLPARK as what the GOP deserves and pretending that you are just being fair is ridiculous. Your posts serve the purpose of deflecting the criticism. It is saying EVERYONE is to blame so NO ONE is to blame. It is ludicrous on the face of it
November 16th, 2009 at 3:31 pmNo Rufus you are not. Except for FVNY you are ignorant brainwashed MORONIC rightwingnuts
November 16th, 2009 at 3:34 pmRufus Leaking says:
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122, I’m here, FVNY is here and Alejandro was around here for awhile too. We are NOT loony lefties.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
We know ……There isn’t a 1 of you intelligent enough to be a lefty , you GOP ball mongering stooge ……….
November 16th, 2009 at 3:36 pmSome but its NOT in the same BALLPARK as what the GOP deserves
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I agree. I think you’re confusing my distrust for government in general with me trying to shift blame away from the GOP.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:42 pmFVNY: “And why does revisionist history lay this debacle squarely at the feet of the GOP?”
Because republicans controlled all branches of government at the time.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:44 pmBecause republicans controlled all branches of government at the time.
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Granted, but not so much that they could have passed the resolution without Democratic support!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:47 pmI personally think all military action should require a declaration of war by Congress and that declaration should require a heftier majority! Just my $0.02
November 16th, 2009 at 3:48 pmEugeneDebs says:
Thank you EugeneDebs – that meant a lot to me.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:50 pmI am not confusing anything. The rhetoric and talking points you have used were BEING used to EXACTLY shift the blame. Your arguments ARE a way to shift the blame. Government itself isnt the problem. BAD government is. A bad constractor building you a shoddy house doesnt mean the concept of housing or building is bad.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:52 pmI agree EugeneDebs. BAD government is definitely a problem.
Republicans have demonstrated that that are very bad at governing. And yet they keep trying to gain power of the government!
Meanwhile, there seems to be more people than ever throwing rocks at ALL government from the sidelines. As though claiming to be Independent means that they can yell and scream and be as critical and belligerent as they feel like being without contributing much at all in the way of constructive dialog.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:01 pmI am not confusing anything. The rhetoric and talking points you have used were BEING used to EXACTLY shift the blame. Your arguments ARE a way to shift the blame.
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You’re hatred of the Republicans blinds you Debs. You’re so intent on making sure the Republicans take the blame for the Iraq war (which is pretty obvious already) you fail to see your own party’s shortcomings.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:02 pmMeanwhile, there seems to be more people than ever throwing rocks at ALL government from the sidelines. As though claiming to be Independent means that they can yell and scream and be as critical and belligerent as they feel like being without contributing much at all in the way of constructive dialog.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:04 pm________________________________________________________
Really? I guess being a political hack is the answer. Supporting one party regardless of their poor management of the country is constructive how?
FVNY says:
No.
The Democrats are attempting to FIX the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan.
If they fail to do that satisfactorily, they and they alone will be blamed and will suffer for it in the coming elections.
Your attempt to say EVERY PARTY IS PARTLY TO BLAME for everything:
a) accomplishes NOTHING.
b) distracts from the efforts to do BETTER in Iraq and Afghanistan.
c) ignores history, recent history.
But I suspect that those were your actual goals all along.
Get it?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:07 pmFVNY: “Granted, but not so much that they could have passed the resolution without Democratic support!”
Actually, they did a number of things without Dem support and quite a few things with minimal Dem support. And, if you remember, Repub leaders like Delay led with an iron fist. There was little compromise. Keep in mind that the same dynamics we see today were at work then. The Dem party is a much broader range of positions than the GOP. You had Blue Dogs, just as you do today. But, the bottom line is that a Gore Administration would have never invaded Iraq. A Gore Administration may not have even invaded Afghanistan. Remember, the Clinton Justice Dept. captured, tried, convicted and imprisoned every terrorist responsible for the first WTC bombing which happened 30 days into his first term.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:09 pmYour attempt to say EVERY PARTY IS PARTLY TO BLAME for everything:
November 16th, 2009 at 4:12 pma) accomplishes NOTHING.
b) distracts from the efforts to do BETTER in Iraq and Afghanistan.
c) ignores history, recent history.
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Your attempts to make every issue partisan continues this country on the road to nowhere. Only when the American people realize that both parties are corrupt can we begin to make some real changes.
FVNY
I am blind to NOTHING. YOU are just stupid. MY PARTY is the Greens. I already TOLD you I wasnt a Democrat. You are stupid. You are a useful idiot at BEST or dishonest at worst. What you are doing is EXACTLY deflecting blame from the Bush administration which obviously deserves the lions share of the blame for Iraq. I dont HATE republicans. I cut my political teeth in the day of principled conservative republicans like John Danforth, Barry Goldwater and William F Buckley. I disagreed with them but respected their integrity. You are so brainwashed you just respond with the talking points that have been programmed into you. I am a liberal so Rush told you that means I HATE. Hate is a waste of time and emotional energy.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:14 pmOn the one hand, they’ll say “Bush liberated 50 million people!”
On the other, they’ll say “every party is to blame!”
As usual, they want it both ways.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:14 pmFVNY
I guess your mindless regurgitation of rightwing talking points is YOUR answer. Its a moronic one but apparantly it is YOUR answer
November 16th, 2009 at 4:16 pmFVNY: “Your attempts to make every issue partisan continues this country on the road to nowhere. Only when the American people realize that both parties are corrupt can we begin to make some real changes.”
Why do we only hear this from conservatives during Democratic administrations? When Repubs run things it’s all about the “permanent Republican majority” and the “K-Street project” to purge all democrats from lobbying firms and the smirking “elections have consequences” remarks. Don’t you guys remember? I sure do.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:17 pmI remember AND agree ninerfan
November 16th, 2009 at 4:19 pmDebs, maybe you consider yourself an internet tough guy but I would refrain from calling everyone who disagrees with you “stupid”. It’s pretty childish and not something you would do in a face to face conversation.
And please stop with the brainwashed bull. Your screen name is Debs and you’re a member of the Green (New Red) party. When do you finally admit that socialism is a failure?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:23 pmYour attempts to make every issue partisan continues this country on the road to nowhere. Only when the American people realize that both parties are corrupt can we begin to make some real changes.
I already agreed to discuss the possibility of switching to a parliamentary style system in this country… days ago.
You ran away when I pointed out that such a system would probably result in the country shifting left and not right…
You still will need broad coalitions, FVNY… you need them to govern.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:23 pmWhen do you finally admit that socialism is a failure?
Well, actually, the social democrats are doing quite well in most European democracies…
When do you finally admit that your ‘EVERY PARTY IS TERRIBLE, ALL THE TIME!’ nonsense is just that, nonsense.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:28 pmFVNY: “When do you finally admit that socialism is a failure?”
How about when it fails? When will people like you admit that a certain kind of limited democratic socialism works fine for the vast majority of the industrialized world? Productivity is higher in France. Employment is better in Germany. People are happier with their lives in Scandinavia. Everyone has better health care. Come on, now. Aren’t there a few things American conservatives are loath to admit?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:29 pmI guess I will decide how I post. You think its fine for YOU to tell me my hate has blinded me but then snivel I call you stupid? You ARE stupid. That isnt my fault. You dont GET to tell me what I should refrain from. You are also CLEARLY brainwashed. You keep regurgitating these talking points you have been programmed with. You dont like it TOUGH. I dont CARE about socialism or capitalism. Either is a viable economy as long as they are tempered with wisdom and compassion. Arguing about which is better and WORSE deifying one over the other is like arguing if we should take a chevy ot a ford truck to the top of a hill, that hill being a just society, the more you deify the vehicle and demand purity of ideology the less likely you are to actually get to the top of the hill. So I dont really CARE what your opinion is of socialism. It didnt FAIL for the Incas. It isnt FAILING when used wisely in Europe and only BRAINWASHED MORONS keep saying it does. You guys THINK, and I use that term broadly, that because RUSH said it then it is an obvious truth that you ought to regurgitate endlessly. Eugene Debs was also a LABOR Leader specifically in the Railroad industry. I am a union member IN the railroad industry which is why I chose THAT nick when my usual one was taken. When are YOU going to admit you are a MORON?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:32 pmEugeneDebs says:
DMac
How would you know? You are so stupid cats laugh at you.
Another classic…
November 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pmWell, actually, the social democrats are doing quite well in most European democracies…
When do you finally admit that your ‘EVERY PARTY IS TERRIBLE, ALL THE TIME!’ nonsense is just that, nonsense.
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Really, I could have sworn that several conservatives won elections in Europe over the last few years.
And yes, I distrust all politicians and all parties (some more than others). You can’t understand that though because you need a large benevolent government to carry out your “progressive” agenda.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pmFVNY
FIRST what qualifies as a conservative in Europe is STILL left of half the Democrats in Congress and second things political swing like a pendulum there and back how in the WORLD would that mean a failure of socialism in Europe. Do you think for ONE SECOND they will dismantle worker protection or their national healthcare plans? If you do then you are delusional.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:35 pmHow about when it fails? When will people like you admit that a certain kind of limited democratic socialism works fine for the vast majority of the industrialized world? Productivity is higher in France. Employment is better in Germany. People are happier with their lives in Scandinavia. Everyone has better health care. Come on, now. Aren’t there a few things American conservatives are loath to admit?
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That’s great for those countries and you’re entitled to your opinion. Just keep your hands out of my pockets and there won’t be any problems. Oh wait, you can’t accomplish any of those things without stealing from me!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:37 pmWhen are YOU going to admit you are a MORON?
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When you admit you’re a thief!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:39 pmFVNY,
What system of democracy would you prefer… you hate our current system. Fine.
What do you propose?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:41 pmOK, the Founders of our country did not believe taxation was theft. It’s right there in Article I, Section 8 of our own constitution. If you have a problem with federal taxes, you have a problem with the core of our own constitution.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:42 pmFVNY
Why would I admit I am a theif when I am not, that would be lying you however clearly ARE a moron
November 16th, 2009 at 4:43 pmbelaccifer lacca: “What do you propose?”
I’m guessing a magical island where there are no taxes or government regulations.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:45 pmFVNY
Taxes arent THEFT you selfish Ebenezer Scrooge worshipping MORON. They are the price we PAY for having a society. If you dont LIKE it why dont you take all your libertarian buddies go live on an Island and let us watch you re-enact the Lord of the Flies. I am sick to DEATH dragging you selfish dont want to pay for society morons along kicking and screaming we are trying to have a civilized society here not a huge group of people living in the same geographic area
November 16th, 2009 at 4:45 pmOK, the Founders of our country did not believe taxation was theft. It’s right there in Article I, Section 8 of our own constitution. If you have a problem with federal taxes, you have a problem with the core of our own constitution.
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I have a problem with progressives trying to run up my taxes so they can try to make everything equal by redistributing other people’s wealth. Keep your hands out my pockets.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:47 pmFVNY… what do you propose?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:50 pmTaxes arent THEFT you selfish Ebenezer Scrooge worshipping MORON. They are the price we PAY for having a society. If you dont LIKE it why dont you take all your libertarian buddies go live on an Island and let us watch you re-enact the Lord of the Flies. I am sick to DEATH dragging you selfish dont want to pay for society morons along kicking and screaming we are trying to have a civilized society here not a huge group of people living in the same geographic area
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How much in taxes is enough Debs (60%, 80%). Why don’t we just give all of our money to the federal government and let them redistribute as they see fit? That would be really fair right? You’re nothing but a whining little pu ssy trying to use the government to steal other people’s money. And don’t worry, your punk as s won’t be dragging me anywhere, thanks to the 2nd amendment.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:51 pmFVNY?
What do you propose?
Or are you just here do complain… as I suspected.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:52 pmFVNY
Then take YOUR pockets out of OUR country that YOU are too selfish to contribute to. Your strawman argument is of course STUPID, then again so are you, it is another regurgitated talkintg point from a brainwashed moron. Wealth is already redistributed in this country. UPWARD. Public risk and cost to private profit. This you dont scream to much about but if we democratically make a decision to help those in need in any way THAT makes you hysterical. You are disgusting. Your worship of Mammon makes me physically ill. Do you even remeber what it was like to have a soul before it dried up and blew away?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:52 pmFVNY… what do you propose?
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A reduction is size and scope of the federal government. Why does the federal government have to be involved in all aspects of our lives?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:52 pmFVNY: “I have a problem with progressives trying to run up my taxes so they can try to make everything equal by redistributing other people’s wealth. Keep your hands out my pockets.”
Two things: First, did you support the Bush tax cuts? That was a huge redistribution of wealth, mostly taking money from the Social Security Fund, paid into strictly by working-class people, and transferring about a trillion of it into the hands of the wealthiest 2% in the nation. AT LEAST ONE TRILLION IN SS WORKING CLASS MONEY GIVEN TO THE WEALTHY. If you don’t care about those kinds of re-distributions, you have no business complaining.
Two: What kind of top rate do you want? People got rich with a 91% top rate in the 50’s. They made money with a 75% top rate in the 60’s. Are you saying people can’t get rich if we raise it from 35% to 38.5%? Really? Why?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:53 pmA reduction is size and scope of the federal government.
How?
Be specific…
November 16th, 2009 at 4:54 pmFVNY: “And don’t worry, your punk as s won’t be dragging me anywhere, thanks to the 2nd amendment.”
And so, your position is armed rebellion against the Federal government rather than pay your taxes, which are, by the way, the lowest rates in the industrial world?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:55 pmFVNY
Another ignorant strawman argument straight out of the Rush Limborg talking point bag. What a shock from an ignorant brainwashed moron. The amount of taxation is a democratic decision and is ALREADY historically very low. My GOD you are stupid. Keep your second amendment COWARD. I have no interest in your guns. However WE ARE Dragging you along because you are selfish and stupid and dead weight in our society. Taxes arent theft. Not only is it another talking point you are obviously brainwashed with it is a particularly STUPID one that only the most demented morons take seriously. You dont want to pay your share just get OUT. Those of us who actually LOVE both our country AND our fellow citizens will be so much better off without ignorant dead weight selfish cretins like YOU
November 16th, 2009 at 4:56 pmThen take YOUR pockets out of OUR country that YOU are too selfish to contribute to. Your strawman argument is of course STUPID, then again so are you, it is another regurgitated talkintg point from a brainwashed moron. Wealth is already redistributed in this country. UPWARD. Public risk and cost to private profit. This you dont scream to much about but if we democratically make a decision to help those in need in any way THAT makes you hysterical. You are disgusting. Your worship of Mammon makes me physically ill. Do you even remeber what it was like to have a soul before it dried up and blew away?
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Call me what you wish, but you progressives need me and the rest of the Americans you claim to despise. You need the wealth we create to loot. But your days are numbered. The American public is on to your thievery.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:57 pmFVNY: “But your days are numbered. The American public is on to your thievery.”
What exactly are you talking about? After hawking the day for four weeks on FOX, the most Bachman could get out in front of the Capital the other day was 4 or 5 thousand people. 75% of the public thinks you guys are punks for opposing a public option. The demographics are moving all the wrong ways for you. I’m not sure you actually know what’s going on around you.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:00 pmAnd so, your position is armed rebellion against the Federal government rather than pay your taxes, which are, by the way, the lowest rates in the industrial world?
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The federal government given power by traitor americans like yourselves. You sacrifice you’re own people to your corrupt ideology.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:01 pmFVNY
My GOD you are stupid. You arent keeping up with current events. You MORONS lost the last two elections. We NEED productive citizens who care enough about our country and our brothers to do their fair share. Selfish, brainwashed dead weight cretins like YOU who are too stupid to know what theft IS we can do without and be much better off.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:01 pmFVNY it is YOU that calls taxes theft. YOU are the un-American traitor not to mention a COWARD and a MORON.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:02 pmWhat exactly are you talking about? After hawking the day for four weeks on FOX, the most Bachman could get out in front of the Capital the other day was 4 or 5 thousand people. 75% of the public thinks you guys are punks for opposing a public option. The demographics are moving all the wrong ways for you. I’m not sure you actually know what’s going on around you.
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The Dems will certainly give back power in 2010 because the progressives pushed Obama over the cliff trying to pass all their socialist policies in the short term.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:02 pmUmm, FVNY?
Do you have a proposal?
Or is it just that ‘SMALLER GOVERNMENT!’ and ‘PRIVATIZE!’ nonsense again?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:02 pmFVNY is also the kind of COWARD who is too stupid to understand the Constitution which CLEARLY gives the federal government the RIGHT to levy taxes to provide for the general wellfare. My GOD you are stupid FVNY
November 16th, 2009 at 5:03 pmFVNY it is YOU that calls taxes theft. YOU are the un-American traitor not to mention a COWARD and a MORON.
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Keep your hands out of my pockets Debs. Go to Europe if you want to live the socialist dream. It aint happening here!
November 16th, 2009 at 5:03 pmP.S. FVNY… the federal government is not given power by ‘traitor americans’ but by the Constitution… did you give that thing a read yet?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:04 pmFVNY
Go to SOMALIA if you wanna live the Libertarian dream. It ain’t happening here!
November 16th, 2009 at 5:05 pmFVNY I hope you dont plan on making MONEY as a profit because the GOP taking power in 2010 is VERY unlikely. Does it turn you on sexually to show everyone JUST HOW STUPID YOU ARE?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:05 pmFVNY: “The Dems will certainly give back power in 2010″
So you think the Dems will lose 30 to 40 seats in the House and at least 9 seats in the Senate? That’s a pretty bold prediction. And, I take it you think the Tea Party movement is going to help candidates like it did in New York’s 23rd? And, you evidently think voters will not blame Repubs if we don’t get health care reform? Hmmmmm. Oooookay. Good luck with all that.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:07 pmPay your TAXES PUNK, they arent theft, feel free to get the hell OUT of the country you dont care enough about to support. I am not advocating we become a socialist country. I told you before I dont care one way another about that. It is a trivial semantic argument. I CARE about a just society. You are a selfish Mammon worshipping piece of garbage that cares ONLY about yourself
November 16th, 2009 at 5:07 pmninerfan
You are ascribing the ability for higher brain function to FVNY, when all I have seen is mindless repitition of what he was TOLD to think. You are very generous
November 16th, 2009 at 5:09 pmFVNY I hope you dont plan on making MONEY as a profit because the GOP taking power in 2010 is VERY unlikely. Does it turn you on sexually to show everyone JUST HOW STUPID YOU ARE?
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The Dems are already losing elections. Theyre going to hemorrhage seats in 2010. Your majority is over in two years just like it was for Clinton because you didn;t learn from your mistakes. Trying to force feed the American public your radical agenda will never work.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:10 pmRight. I hate to break it to people like FDNY, but someone who pays his taxes is technically a better citizen and, by definition, a better American, than someone who doesn’t. Modern libertarian dogma seems to have obscured that fact for so many of them.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:10 pmFVNY…. WHAT IS YOUR SPECIFIC PROPOSAL FOR CHANGE?
Or are you just here to spew?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:11 pmPay your TAXES PUNK, they arent theft, feel free to get the hell OUT of the country you dont care enough about to support. I am not advocating we become a socialist country. I told you before I dont care one way another about that. It is a trivial semantic argument. I CARE about a just society. You are a selfish Mammon worshipping piece of garbage that cares ONLY about yourself
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just society = socialism
Sorry Debs, aint gonna happen!
November 16th, 2009 at 5:11 pmFVNY
Turn in your crystal ball. You are too stupid to be taken seriously. You got two EPIC buttkickings in a row and now you think for no reason whatsoever that your DELUSIONS have any reality whatsoever? Upstate New York just went dem for the first time in a CENTURY. My GOD you are stupid
November 16th, 2009 at 5:12 pmRight. I hate to break it to people like FDNY, but someone who pays his taxes is technically a better citizen and, by definition, a better American, than someone who doesn’t. Modern libertarian dogma seems to have obscured that fact for so many of them.
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Ooooh, labeling dissenters as un-American. I thought only Republicans did that!
November 16th, 2009 at 5:12 pmFVNY: “The Dems are already losing elections.”
Do you really believe that New Jersey, with it’s massive Dem majority in State government and it’s 60% approval ratings for Obama, is not still a blue state? I mean really. You buy everything your media masters are selling don’t you?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:12 pmUpstate New York just went dem for the first time in a CENTURY. My GOD you are stupid
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Upstate NY barely went Dem even after the liberal republican dropped out of the race at the last minute and threw her support behind the Democrat to barely beat an unknown 3rd party conservative.
The clock is ticking Debs!
November 16th, 2009 at 5:14 pmFVNY says a just society equal socialism and a just society isnt going to happen. There you have it. Another Mammon worshipping selfish dead weight conservative in a nutshell. He ONLY cares about himself and that is bad enough but he has to DISPARAGE anyone who wants a just society or to help those in need. Tell me FVNY dont you MISS being a decent human being or is it that you NEVER HAVE BEEN and dont know the joy it brings?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:14 pmFVNY: “Ooooh, labeling dissenters as un-American. I thought only Republicans did that!”
Man, I think you’ve been here too long. You’re losing your mind, or at least your reading comprehension. I said “people who don’t pay their taxes”, not “people who dissent.” You’re beginning to see words that aren’t really there.
But you’re right about one thing. Only conservatives seem to call dissenters “un-American.”
November 16th, 2009 at 5:15 pmFVNY?
Any thoughts?
At all?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:15 pmYou are a LIAR FVNY you have never THOUGHT in your life. You flat out dont have the requisite equipment. Anyone saying that paying FOR America and Americans is theft is by definition un-American. That is obvious. Tick Tock all you want. If you think your DELUSIONAL FANTASIES scare me you are even stupider than I thought and I think you are stupider than tile grout
November 16th, 2009 at 5:16 pmDo you really believe that New Jersey, with it’s massive Dem majority in State government and it’s 60% approval ratings for Obama, is not still a blue state? I mean really. You buy everything your media masters are selling don’t you?
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Mid-term elections for a 1st term president that enjoys a majority in both houses of Congress usually are tough. What do you think its going to be like after health care reform, cap & trade, 10% unemployment, stimulus bills etc? The Dems are gonna get killed.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:17 pmThe clock is ticking Debs!
—-
November 16th, 2009 at 5:18 pmThat is what clocks do. What are you suggesting. Have you looked at party affiliation numbers?
FVNY: “Upstate NY barely went Dem even after the liberal republican dropped out of the race at the last minute and threw her support behind the Democrat to barely beat an unknown 3rd party conservative.”
Hold up there, cowboy. What happened is that you had a moderate Repub that would have won easily, but Sarah Palin and a number of other big-time Repubs threw their support behind a right-wing third party candidate who became a Beck-supporting Tea Party candidate. This turned off voters and the Dem squeaked in for the first time since the administration of Ulysses Grant.
And now you’ve got Palin and her crew running around the country about to do the same trick for a bunch of other repubs. Again, good luck with that strategy.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:18 pmYou are a LIAR FVNY you have never THOUGHT in your life. You flat out dont have the requisite equipment. Anyone saying that paying FOR America and Americans is theft is by definition un-American. That is obvious. Tick Tock all you want. If you think your DELUSIONAL FANTASIES scare me you are even stupider than I thought and I think you are stupider than tile grout
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You trying to steal my money to create your socialist dream is un-American. But I’m confident that you won’t be able to pull it off.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:19 pmThe Dems are gonna get killed.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:19 pm—
Wasn’t your premise the other day that there was no difference between the two major parties or am I mistaking you with someone else?
belaccifer lacca says:
“FVNY?
Any thoughts?
At all?”
Well, he’s pretty sure the Repubs are going to re-take Congress in ‘10, but as usual, no specific suggestions on solutions or programs. They’re all about running. Governing? Not so much.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:20 pmTrying to force feed the American public your radical agenda will never work.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:21 pm—
Wanna spell out this “radical” agenda?
You are a liar. You are too stupid to know what THEFT IS. You dont LIKE paying for society get the hell out of it. Calling taxes THEFT is un-American if only because of the abject STUPIDITY of it. Your ignorance and selfishness is an embarssment to all decent human beings much less Americans. I am ashamed to be the same species as you. You WANT all the trappings of living in a society you just want everyone ELSE to pay for it. Another dead wieght free lunch MORON
November 16th, 2009 at 5:23 pmWasn’t your premise the other day that there was no difference between the two major parties or am I mistaking you with someone else?
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Nope, thats me. The Democrats will lose big and allow in the Republican who’ve learned nothing because they’ve only been out of power two years. The Repubs will come in and it will be socialism-lite.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:23 pmdbadass
Apparantly it has something to do with using tax money for things that dont directly benifit HIM.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:24 pmYou are a liar. You are too stupid to know what THEFT IS. You dont LIKE paying for society get the hell out of it. Calling taxes THEFT is un-American if only because of the abject STUPIDITY of it. Your ignorance and selfishness is an embarssment to all decent human beings much less Americans. I am ashamed to be the same species as you. You WANT all the trappings of living in a society you just want everyone ELSE to pay for it. Another dead wieght free lunch MORON
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Dead weight? Hahahaha. I pay my share of taxes and then some you commie!
November 16th, 2009 at 5:24 pmFVNY: “You trying to steal my money to create your socialist dream is un-American.”
Again, the federal government’s power to tax is enumerated in Article I, Section 8. What level of taxation would you think appropriate? In the booming 50’s, the top rate was 91%. In the roaring 60’s, 75%. When the middle class was at its strongest point in history in the 70’s, it was in the 60’s.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:25 pmFVNY apparantly you are too stupid to even know what socialism IS. That is not surpising you really are a moron. A delusional moron. Keep dreaming its all you out of power selfish morons have…your dreams
November 16th, 2009 at 5:25 pmThen stop complaining. I told you I would take care of your taxes for you if you were too cheap to handle it.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:26 pmHe added that Obama “simply can’t get it right” and that the bow is part of Obama’s “world-wide apology tour.”
He wouldn’t need to apologize Mr. Rove, if you and your bosses had done YOUR job correctly.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:26 pmCommie?
1980 called it wants its insult back. My GOD why arent you ashamed to be so stupid? Yeah you are dead weight. I probably put out more in TIPS than you pay in taxes
November 16th, 2009 at 5:27 pmFVNY says:
You say that with such glee, FVNY…
And I ‘thought’ you were ‘independent’
Oh well…
no plan, I presume?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:27 pmSo tell us again about all those republican progressives. That part was pretty wild…
November 16th, 2009 at 5:27 pmI think FVNY should tell us again how a just society equals socialism and it will never happen. I just love to laugh at morons as stupid as this
November 16th, 2009 at 5:29 pmNope, thats me. The Democrats will lose big and allow in the Republican who’ve learned nothing because they’ve only been out of power two years. The Repubs will come in and it will be socialism-lite.
—
November 16th, 2009 at 5:29 pmSo who will you be voting for and who did you vote for in let’s say the last 4 presidential cycles? Come on now tell the truth…
Whatever. I need to get back to my private sector job and create wealth for you looters to raid. Its upsetting that you guys feel that taxing the American people to death is a good thing but I don’t worry too much about it. The majority of Americans will never allow taxes to get to the point that would allow you to live out your socialist fantasies.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:30 pmFVNY says:
Okay.
Please, for your own sake, I’m begging you… do some reading before you come back, okay?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:31 pmTax Whiners bum me out….
November 16th, 2009 at 5:32 pmFVNY at 5:10: “just society = socialism”
Well, I guess that’s progress – a conservative admitting that socialism brings about a more just society. I’m not sure I totally agree with that, but it’s a good argument.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:32 pmFVNY whatever you are stupid and you are a liar. Your strawman talking points, the ones you have been brainwashed with, are almost as stupid as YOU are. I work in the private sector. I am productive and unlike YOU I am not so selfish I think it is stealing for the society that has done so much to help ALL of us make money to ask for some of it back. You are ignorant and you are a selfish brainwashed moron
November 16th, 2009 at 5:34 pmBoy, do those -1’s make you feel good for a second, anonymous?
Kind of an empty thrill, isn’t it?
I mean I just hit Vote Up whenever I see you here indiscriminatly voting down, ya know?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:34 pmWasn’t your premise the other day that there was no difference between the two major parties or am I mistaking you with someone else?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:19 pm Vote Up | Vote Down | (-1) | —
November 16th, 2009 at 5:35 pmHey dumb ass FVNY agrees. What would be the point of voting down that which the person in question readily admits? Duh….
1980 called it wants its insult back. My GOD why arent you ashamed to be so stupid? Yeah you are dead weight. I probably put out more in TIPS than you pay in taxes
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The USSR called, it wants its useful idiot back.
And I bet that I paid more in taxes last year than your annual salary.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:35 pmFVNY: “I need to get back to my private sector job and create wealth for you looters to raid.”
Isn’t he adorable! And to think he was completely quiet when Bush looted/raided the Social Security fund and gave a trillion dollars in working class money to the wealthy. Oh well, that’s royalist-errrrrrr conservatives for you.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:37 pmFVNY says:
Ahh, so you’re a Beck fan, huh?
Here’s a hint… all that ‘arguing with idiots’ stuff he does only works if you’re actually arguing with an idiot…
You may want to read a little more broadly before you come back, okay?
Thank you.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:37 pmI suppose it depends upon how you wish to define “commie” sort of like how it depends on how you want to define republican “progressive”…
November 16th, 2009 at 5:38 pmIsn’t he adorable! And to think he was completely quiet when Bush looted/raided the Social Security fund and gave a trillion dollars in working class money to the wealthy. Oh well, that’s royalist-errrrrrr conservatives for you.
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You’d be wrong about that NinerFan. I was no Bush loyalist.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:38 pmFVNY: “And I bet that I paid more in taxes last year than your annual salary.”
Isn’t that the way it always is. Wealthy VIP’s taking time out of their busy day to chastise us little people over our looting their wealth. Just another day in America.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:38 pmFVNY
I doubt that seriously. I make more than a hundred grand a year. The USSR? REALLY? My God you are not only stupid and brainwashed you are still brainwashed from the 1980’s. It would be hard for the USSR to call since it hasnt EXISTED SINCE 1979. Just how stupid do you need to be? That useful idiot part was PURE projection. You are so ignorant and brainwshed you dont even KNOW what a hivemind lemming you are
November 16th, 2009 at 5:39 pmAnd I bet that I paid more in taxes last year than your annual salary.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:39 pm— Well now how would you like to stand up to this claim? Come on now big boy….
Typo that should read 1989 arguably 1991 still almost twenty years
November 16th, 2009 at 5:40 pmAnd I bet that I paid more in taxes last year than your annual salary.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:41 pm—
And why would you even propose such a ridiculous idea?
Why don’t we start by you telling us about your tax return shall we? See the thing is I have no patience for bullshit…
November 16th, 2009 at 5:43 pmdbadass
Because he is a liar and a moron and doesnt even CARE if what he says is true?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:43 pmI doubt that seriously. I make more than a hundred grand a year. The USSR? REALLY? My God you are not only stupid and brainwashed you are still brainwashed from the 1980’s. It would be hard for the USSR to call since it hasnt EXISTED SINCE 1979. Just how stupid do you need to be? That useful idiot part was PURE projection. You are so ignorant and brainwshed you dont even KNOW what a hivemind lemming you are
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Wow, a hundred grand a year! Well shucks Mista, i neva seen that much monee befaw.
I stand corrected though. I didn’t quite pay a $100K in taxes last year but it was pretty close. I forgot that you were a union guy. Nothing like a union to inflate a man’s worth!
November 16th, 2009 at 5:45 pmIf you’ve watched these discussions at all, it’s predictable. The brave libertarian railing against taxes is always a very wealthy guy who just wants to set progressives straight. He’s seen it all. He knows it all. Very predictable.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:46 pmSure you did. ALL wealth is created by those who WORK. NONE by those who buy and sell. Not a DIME. Unions allow WORKERS to get their fair share of the wealth THEY CREATE. I am not suprised that a selfish piece of garbage like YOU gets all his money off the sweat of OTHERS then is so selfish he doesnt want to give back to the society whose investments have made that possible. You are stupid. That is obvious. You are a liar. That is also obvious. You are selfish THAT is indisputable. You disgust any decent human being. Something you apparantly will never be.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:48 pmLet’s go jackass. Tell us about that return and pony up some supporting evidences. I already told you I have limited patience for bullshit. Maybe we should start with your employment. Don’t tell me let me guess…. small business owner?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:49 pmAt least that is what he CLAIMS ninerfan. I think it just as likely he lives in a trailerpark and DREAMS of being rich. Clearly he only KNOWS what Rush tells him he knows.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:50 pmHaven’t been able to catch up on comments (very busy) but I’m sure you are all engaging HVNY just fine.
But, HVNY, I do have a question for you.
FVNY says:
FVNY… what do you propose?
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A reduction is size and scope of the federal government. Why does the federal government have to be involved in all aspects of our lives?
Have you had a chance to specifically explain how reducing the size of government will help this country?
For example, if I may, how exactly will reducing the size of government help keep the cost of coverage for health insurance down to an affordable level for what most civilized countries would consider basic health care?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:51 pmSince it is unlikely you actually will why don’t we get back to the easier questions posed at 325? Can you handle that?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:52 pmFVNY: “I didn’t quite pay a $100K in taxes last year but it was pretty close.”
Now we’re getting somewhere. Under one of the main health care reform plans from the house, your taxes would not go up – it only affects individuals making over $500K. If you paid that in taxes, your salary was about $286K.
Under Obama’s proposal to raise the top marginal rate for individuals making over $250K, your taxes would go up by about $1080, actually about 1% more than you now pay. It’s hard for me to believe that a person making $286K a year is upset about a 1% increase if it means balancing the budget, paying down the debt and providing health care reform for millions of Americans in the process. That $1000 increase doesn’t really change your life style. What the hell is the huge problem here?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:53 pmHahaha – I just read some of the comments.
Did HVNY claim that he paid more in taxes last year than we probably made in salary?! Either he’s got a very bad accountant or…
November 16th, 2009 at 5:54 pmThank you mary, I kept asking but I fear I’m being tuned out…
November 16th, 2009 at 5:55 pmEither he’s got a very bad accountant or…
November 16th, 2009 at 5:56 pm—
a messed up ego issue…
Belacifer
He isnt going to answer a question like that. Rush hasnt given him a talking point that covers it so he is lost
November 16th, 2009 at 5:59 pmbelaccifer lacca
November 16th, 2009 at 5:59 pm—
Forgive me as I intend not to be a jerk or rude or anything but shouldn’t that “b” be a “B”?
ehh, I’m more of a lower case ‘b’ and since belac is just Caleb backwards perhaps it should really be belaCcifer…
November 16th, 2009 at 6:05 pmWhen you think about raising the top marginal rates and look at the actual results for people in the $100K to $500K a year bracket, it becomes clear that those with the most to lose are the very wealthy. These proposed increases just don’t have that much effect on someone making, say $350K a year. It’s the super-wealthy that get hit and that’s fair. They’ve been winning big for three decades now and their wealth has gotten completely out of proportion with the goals of a middle class democracy.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:20 pmSo is that your best argument? Because the policy won’t equal more taxes for me, I should be ok with it? Listen, I know you guys consider yourselves modern day Robin Hoods but its not right to steal from people. Its the rich today, the middle class tomorrow. Just stop already. don’t you guys have any shame?
November 16th, 2009 at 6:51 pmFVNY says:
Do you have any shame?
Any thing to say about HOW you would reduce the size of Government and HOW that would improve all our lives, SPECIFICALLY?
No?
Strange…
November 16th, 2009 at 6:56 pmFVNY: “Listen, I know you guys consider yourselves modern day Robin Hoods but its not right to steal from people.”
We’ve already covered this although you typically pretend not to notice. If you think taxation is theft, you are at odds with the very people who crafted our system. It’s right there in Article I of the constitution. Do you agree with our constitution or not? You might as well argue that the courts don’t have the right to review the constitutionality of laws or that people don’t have the right to bear arms. Why do you seem to honor parts of the constitution and ignore others?
November 16th, 2009 at 7:00 pmFVNY: “Because the policy won’t equal more taxes for me, I should be ok with it?”
So your concern about taxes isn’t personal, but altruistic? Very strange that you’re altruistic about not paying taxes but not altruistic about the idea of people getting health care. Maybe you should give that some thought.
November 16th, 2009 at 7:02 pmFVNY says:
“Do you have any shame?”
And this from someone who comes on this board in 2009 and calls an American a “commie.” Yikes.
November 16th, 2009 at 7:05 pmAnd, by the way, everyone notices how you vomit out your platitudes and then when someone like belaccifer lacca asks you for specifics, you stare off into space.
You still haven’t explained how decreasing the size of the federal government will improve all our lives. If you’re going to live by such a sweeping philosophy, shouldn’t you be ready to explain how it works?
November 16th, 2009 at 7:07 pmI thought you went back to your private sector job? Why are you so full of shit? Does it not tie up your insides when you lie?
November 16th, 2009 at 7:15 pmBah hahahahahaha! Do what other presidents have done with the Saudi King!!!! Oh man! Too funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, instead of bowing to the King it’s better to suck face, hold hands, and grab his ass out in the Rose Garden. See?
November 16th, 2009 at 7:20 pmNot to mention the fact that both Ike and Nixon did exactly the same thing. Today’s conservatives have no clue. They’re just robots jumping to the tune of their media masters. It never seems to occur to them that their media masters are feeding them huge steaming piles of misinformation.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:27 pmWe’ve already covered this although you typically pretend not to notice. If you think taxation is theft, you are at odds with the very people who crafted our system. It’s right there in Article I of the constitution. Do you agree with our constitution or not? You might as well argue that the courts don’t have the right to review the constitutionality of laws or that people don’t have the right to bear arms. Why do you seem to honor parts of the constitution and ignore others?
November 16th, 2009 at 8:52 pm_____________________________
Article I indicates that Congress has the power to tax but those powers were extremely limited and the taxation was to be uniform throughout the US. The founding fathers would never have agreed to a progressive tax to deplete the wealth of certain segments of the population. Also, there was no official income taxes until the 16th amendment was ratified in 1913. Don’t pretend to understand or honor the US Constitution when what you stand for is fundamentally against the spirit of the document.
You still haven’t explained how decreasing the size of the federal government will improve all our lives. If you’re going to live by such a sweeping philosophy, shouldn’t you be ready to explain how it works?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:10 pm________________________________________
Why should bureaucrats in Washington decide every aspect of life? You want the feds to control health care, the economy, education, private businesses, everything. You want them to take care of you from the cradle to the grave and you want them to get the money to pay from it from your fellow citizens. Its about freedom and self-government. That’s the premise the country was founded on. Its supposed to be about equality of opportunity, not outcomes. A meritocracy. But you people want to trade that freedom for material security. I choose not to be beholden to a huge federal government for every thing I have in life.
So your concern about taxes isn’t personal, but altruistic? Very strange that you’re altruistic about not paying taxes but not altruistic about the idea of people getting health care. Maybe you should give that some thought.
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Health care, education, housing, jobs, salary, the list goes on and on. The progressives want the goverment to dictate all aspects of life in the attempts to usher in this perfect society where everything is equal and everyone is happy. Its a fairy tale, wake up!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:19 pmSo when are you going to man up and share with us that tax return or why you might be so pompous to assume your taxes exceed my income? Cut the shit and stand up like a big self made man/woman why don’t you?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:28 pmCould you atleast post a curriculum vitae and the name of the institution that awarded the degree or did you make your success without the aid of higher ed. Afterall ed is a liberal gig isn’t it?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:31 pmdbadass, my comments were directed at you. i was talking to eugene v debs who told me that he spent more on tips than i paid in taxes. i guess you missed his comments.
and please tell me that you’re joking about taking credit for higher learning in this country. just because the left decided to fight the culture wars by indoctrinating children on college campuses doesn;t mean you can claim credit for knowledge.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:39 pmi meant that the comments were NOT directed at you.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:40 pmI am claiming nothing. It is a common whine of the right that education is left. Are you suggesting that they are wrong? Now are we gonna get that curriculum vitae and degree granting institution or not?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:43 pmSince the parties are the same how can there be any wars cultural or otherwise? Just tell me the name of your university please as well as your occupation.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:45 pmThanks-
don’t worry about my credentials pal. where i live, my job, my salary doesnt change the fact that your ideology is morally bankrupt.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:46 pmSince the parties are the same how can there be any wars cultural or otherwise?
you’re mistaking political parties for ideologies.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:47 pmyou’re mistaking political parties for ideologies.
—
November 16th, 2009 at 9:49 pmYes but since there is no liberal party nor conservative party who is serving as proxy armies for this nonsensical battle?
don’t worry about my credentials pal. where i live, my job, my salary doesnt change the fact that your ideology is morally bankrupt.
—
November 16th, 2009 at 9:51 pmThen STFU about your alledged success and stop whining about your taxes. You have no clue as to my ideology my linear thinking friend…I call bullshit on your credentials as obviously you lack the pride in them to share them….
your ideology is morally bankrupt.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:52 pm—
Saqys the one whose values are as shallow as how many pennies he has….
Yes but since there is no liberal party nor conservative party who is serving as proxy armies for this nonsensical battle?
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I’ll let you decide about the Democrats. I don’t think the Republicans are doing a good job for the right. At least not the fiscally conservative, small government concepts that most would typically associate with the right wing. thats why i say that the parties look very similar these days.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:54 pmmust be all those progressives under that big tent…Why let me decide? You are the one that is all preachy about the world according to FVNY….
November 16th, 2009 at 9:56 pmSo tell the truth you were lying about that going back to work crap weren’t you? It is okay to be honest…
November 16th, 2009 at 9:58 pmThen STFU about your alledged success and stop whining about your taxes. You have no clue as to my ideology my linear thinking friend…I call bullshit on your credentials as obviously you lack the pride in them to share them….
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Like i said, i was responding to a progressive who disparaged me about how much i paid in taxes. sorry if you were offended. i can see it bothers you. and i dont feel they need to discuss my credentials with you to validate my point. it shouldnt matter if i went to a community college or harvard, if i make 30k or 500k. why are you trying to judge me on my background. thats not very progressive of you!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:59 pmSo tell the truth you were lying about that going back to work crap weren’t you? It is okay to be honest
————–
i haven’t told any lies on this board. believe what you will but thats the truth
November 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pmWho came her and announced their alledged private school education and MBA? Was it I? I am not offended. I just have no patience for bullshit. I don’t judge you from your background as you are not proud enough of it to share. I judge you from the words you have written here.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:02 pmWho came her and announced their alledged private school education and MBA? Was it I? I am not offended. I just have no patience for bullshit. I don’t judge you from your background as you are not proud enough of it to share. I judge you from the words you have written here.
again, in response to progressives that said i owe my education to the government. just proving the point that the all mighty federal government is not responsible for everything in life.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:05 pmi haven’t told any lies on this board. believe what you will but thats the truth
—
November 16th, 2009 at 10:06 pmSo you can show evidence of anyone here being a “commie”? Don’t confuse moronic opinion for truth…
I think the MBA etc is probably bullshit but I welcome you to prove me wrong. I really don’t see what harm is done by simply naming the institution which granted the degree.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:07 pmagain, in response to progressives that said i owe my education to the government. just proving the point that the all mighty federal government is not responsible for everything in life.
—
November 16th, 2009 at 10:10 pmSee this is exactly why I think that MBA is bullshit. No educated person would make this absurd leap. First of all no one ever saud the federal government is responsible for everything in life. It is just childlike in the lack of thinking….
Alright, maybe. I was a little harsh…
November 16th, 2009 at 11:28 pmdbadass – nice ‘catch and release’ on FVNY. Posers just haven’t figured out that your integrity trumps their foolishness each and every time.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:43 amI guess Rove’s idea of a perfect greeting would be to vomit on the Prime Minister.
November 17th, 2009 at 3:17 amJust can’t drop that sense of entitlement and superiority, can you? Me, American. Me, Strong. Me don’t bow to no one! Me don’t respect no one. Me all powerful! Me run the World!
November 17th, 2009 at 7:59 amSee this is exactly why I think that MBA is bullshit. No educated person would make this absurd leap. First of all no one ever saud the federal government is responsible for everything in life. It is just childlike in the lack of thinking….
dbadass – nice ‘catch and release’ on FVNY. Posers just haven’t figured out that your integrity trumps their foolishness each and every time.
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Hahahaha. You guys actually find it hard to believe that I was able to attain a master’s degree without the help of the federal government. I have to show it to you for you to believe it. What a sad commentary!
And you’re wrong d-badass. Several people in this discussion indicated that Americans owe their education to the government. I disagreed and demonstrated how an individual can receive a quality, non-public education.
November 17th, 2009 at 9:25 amFVNY perhaps. Then again many CANT and DO get a quality education with government help. Since it is in the country’s best interest to have more educated people that is a good thing. Then again since you are SO stupid and SO selfish that you only care about yourself the country’s best intereset means NOTHING to you. You disgust all decent human beings
November 17th, 2009 at 2:51 pm“Remember, yer Highness – no tongue!”
November 18th, 2009 at 2:12 am