Cafe Press Bans All ‘Pray For Obama: Psalm 109:8′ Merchandise
Cafe Press Bans All ‘Pray For Obama: Psalm 109:8′ Merchandise
This week, both the websites of CafePress.com and Zazzle.com decided to stop selling merchandise that featured the latest right-wing craze: the slogan “Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8.” However, Cafe Press then changed its mind and told ThinkProgress that it was reinstating the merchandise, which fell within “fair political commentary.”
Whether it’s “fair political commentary” was quickly questioned. While 109:8 reads, “Let his days be few; and let another take his office,” the next line is, “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow,” suggesting far more violent rhetoric than simple criticism. Diana Butler Bass at Beliefnet has explained that Psalm 109 is “considered one of the most difficult of all the psalms — full of violent images of vengeance and death.”
Yesterday, Cafe Press announced that it was again reversing itself and removing all the merchandise in response to strong public pressure:
The public debate started with questioning if the design was simply intended to be criticism of the President or something much worse. The discourse was surprisingly civil online, given the heated nature of the topic. Given that, and the positions of groups like the ACLU and the Anti-Defamation League, we decided to let the dialogue play out publicly before making a final decision.
Last night we posted a poll on our blog, read through the emails we’ve received and weighed the nature of the calls we’ve received on the topic. In the process we also learned that many of the original designers of the Psalm 109:8 designs had already decided to remove them on their own.
General consensus has proven that the design does point to a broader interpretation of the Psalm and thus has been deemed inappropriate for sale at CafePress.
The results of the Cafe Press poll were 76 percent calling the slogan “overly inflammatory and inappropriate” and 22 percent saying it was fair.
(HT: TP commenter Marie)
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About time. Making threats against the President is NOT “freedom of speech”.
People were ARRESTED for WEARING anti-Bush (the TRAITOR) t-shirts.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:50 pmI would never pray (even though prayers don’t work) for my president’s death, republican or otherwise.. This is barbaric and down-right mean.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:55 pmI’m sure Jesus would approve
November 21st, 2009 at 4:56 pm{/sarcasm off}
Another example of why people are losing their faith in Religion. With this kind of conduct using the Church and Religon it’s clearly not the way God taught. Now life has taught me one thing becareful what to wish apone others it just might come back at you. It’s also sad to see President Obama work 24/7 for all the American people yet he has this kind of attacks. It’s been a year since Obama took office and he’s taken very few days off, while George W. Bush couldn’t get away fast enough from DC and even dismissed the 9/11 notice.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:56 pmThere was a diary on DK (Techbob I think) which revealed that anyone following the true interpretation of that psalm, is actually wishing harm on THE KING’S (Obama’s) enemies.
Typical of the wingnuts to read something from the Bible, and get the meaning ass-backwards.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:58 pmThis was not only disgraceful, it was insidious. Using the Teddy Bear was offensive. These religious zealots are dangerous and unstable.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:00 pmDoes this mean the 30 percenters are down to 22?
November 21st, 2009 at 5:02 pmlivelongandprosper says,
Actually, I think its closer to single digits. Almost too smalll a sampling to poll.(I hope!).
November 21st, 2009 at 5:12 pmResponsible move by Cafe Press & Zazzle. Good to see.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:15 pm22% approve, I wonder who those morons could be?
Oh, forgot, the UnAmerican Republiscum.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:15 pmsee democracy works whene people understand what it is and let them decide case in pointi didnt Know the meaning 0f this
November 21st, 2009 at 5:17 pmi and many other that where now informed understood that this Clearly was a threat to the president and when asked we responded with reason
November 21st, 2009 at 5:23 pmeducation and a big dose of “pay attention stupid” would go a long way to shut these right-wing morons up
Bucky@10, Yeah. No doubt they are part of the ‘Tea-Bagger’ crowd. But they are diminishing. Already the are fighting amongst themselves. They even told the Neo-Nazi movement they were hurting ‘Their’ image when they showed up at a rally, they are squabbling over money, and their Queen Sarah is proving to be an embarrassment. LOL! The look on those people faces when she ditched them in the pouring rain after they waited HOURS is classic.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:25 pmhttp://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/20/20325/679
Found the diary, have a looksee.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:27 pmAnyone selling, promoting or purchasing the slogan: Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8 needs to have a visit by the SS.
How much more evidence do we need to filter those out wanting harm to our President?
November 21st, 2009 at 5:27 pmOver at thefoxnation.com there are over 346 posts most of which, of course, love the t-shirts and can’t wait for the President to die. In all of the 8 years of Bush I never saw the level and hatred here that I see at thefoxnation.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:29 pmSerge
It wasnt that the people who DID this were that stupid. They KNEW what they were doing. The context of the quote shows the intellectual bankrupcy of using that part in that way. They just felt they could sell it because of their lack of respect for the intelligence of those who would BUY the merchandise. They figured the rubes would never know.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:30 pm# 1. ncbrickhome says:
People were ARRESTED for WEARING anti-Bush (the TRAITOR) t-shirts.
and Psalms 109:8 says, ‘Let his days be few; and let another take his office.’
Huge difference and to the crazies Psalms 109:8 is a religious approval to ….. the A word with four ss’s.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:42 pm(HT: TP commenter Marie)
woo hoo! good on ya, marie!
and good on cafepress and zazzle for removing this crap…
not that it will stop the hate and ignorance, but anyone who takes part in the propagation of it is guilty of sin.
as a sign maker, many of the posters i’ve seen lately make me wonder about boundaries… not enough people just saying NO.
especially that holocaust banner… that was digitally printed by a sign shop… one without scruples, evidently…
i was “fortunate” to be able to use the previous TP story about this as a hammer to pound my family of nails on their religious hypocrisy after receiving an anti-democratic-anti-liberal screed dressed up as a “keep christ in christmas” message…
haven’t heard a word from any of them yet…
thanksgiving is going to be interesting… and tense, as usual…
it’s not easy being the lone proud progressive liberal member of the democratic party in a huge family of repugs…
November 21st, 2009 at 5:42 pmCan you even imagine what would have happened if someone had advocated or promoted a tee-shirt or teddy bear like this when Bush was president?
They were like the gestapo police when it came to expressing opposition to Bush – and I never saw a placard, shirt, or sticker that called for his death.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:44 pmFight the good fight katy. Remember that when you are RIGHT you can be a majority of one (shameless plug for one of my alltime favorite movies)
November 21st, 2009 at 5:45 pmKaty – :)
November 21st, 2009 at 5:45 pmKaty, My family is a lot like yours — I will try to avoid politics on the holiday. It can be very uncomfortable, and I don’t want to spend the day arguing because no one will change his/her mind.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:47 pmthanks for that, mathazar…
“curiouser and curiouser”…
November 21st, 2009 at 5:52 pmthanks eugene and marie… we all generally avoid the subject of politics, but it’s never far below the surface at times…
and, i know i’m more sensitive than they are… well, of course…
November 21st, 2009 at 5:56 pmheh…
Jackie @ 4
And let us not forget some of the other views such as pro massacre of Iraq, anti health care for all and other views just as wicked coming from the religious right nut cases.
All these pro death and let the sick rot and die attitudes clash with the true teachings of most religions.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:57 pmLOL! My Holidays are spent avoiding the inevitable scream match between me and my mother and stepfather, who STILL has a framed photo of Bush and Laura in his office.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:00 pmMarie says:
Can you even imagine … like this when Bush was president?
it seems to me, it’s to the point that they are testing the limits, if not outright provoking trouble…
all the talk of ‘free speech’ ‘first amendment rights’…
and it’s going to happen, the crossing of the line, and someone will have to be arrested and then all hell will break loose…
so the last 20+ years of right-wing propaganda and brainwashing and dumbing-down will have fulfilled it’s purpose…?
November 21st, 2009 at 6:11 pmP.D.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:12 pmThat’s another benefit of being a regular on this site — I need to come here to commiserate as well as for the news and information, because so many of my family and friends are either extremely conservative or extremely clueless.
#19 katy
“especially that holocaust banner… that was digitally printed by a sign shop… one without scruples, evidently…”
They did it for the money.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:12 pmPray For Trolls
Proverbs 3:13-14
-Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
-For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:13 pmfrom NYT:
Psalm 109:8:
However, as a number of commentators have noted, the wording that follows this bumper-sticker appeal is somewhat more disturbing:
Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:14 pmLet the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labor.
Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.
Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.
Marie, What makes me aggravated is that my mother KNOWS better. She is highly educated. But since she became a ‘Born Again’ she REFUSES to accept the logical. She and my stepfather surround themselves with people who belive what they do. Quite frankly, it’s sad. They lead such a sheltered life.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:17 pm. . . . and maybe Cafe Press got a visit from the Secret Service.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:18 pmAngry Righty Relatives can be infuriating, so I just avoid them. Last Thanksgiving we had dinner at a casino buffet. Fun, lots of food and no clean-up, and NO QUARREL with family.
But really galls me is friends and acquaintances saying “Oh, I don’t pay attention to politics! They’re all the same; its just a lot of hot air!”
November 21st, 2009 at 6:28 pm@ 32. had enough says: from NYT: Psalm 109:8:
However, as a number of commentators have noted, the wording that follows this bumper-sticker appeal is somewhat more disturbing:
Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg:…
Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth. November 21st, 2009 at 6:14 pm
It is a disturbing Psalm and it may or may not be inappropriate. As I pointed out on the previous thread on this subject, the Psalm takes on a quite different meaning IF YOU TAKE THE TROUBLE TO READ FROM THE FIRST VERSE AND NOT FROM THE EIGHTH.
The Psalm, like many others, is written from the perspective of the Psalmist, presumptively David, King of Israel and Judea. The first 7 verses establish that the speaker is one about whom lies are being spread; he’s under attack from liars, hypocrites and cheats. The Psalmist goes on, from verse 8 to curse those liars, hypocrites, and cheats.
Ergo, since the curse is applied to those who are attacking an honest, loving man, in the current circumstance, it is quite appropriate to place President Obama in the place of the Psalmist and say that the curse, from verse 8 on, is on those who are attacking him. They’re by and large dishonest, mostly hypocrites, and most of them seem to cheat on their wives or their business partners or their country.
Perhaps it’s no surprise that the righties that thought this up decided to pull it – it’s directed right at them. They do have a bad habit of quoting out of context and not doing the research to see what the context actually is; then when they get their nose rubbed in it, they want to back away and say “we didn’t mean that”.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:30 pmThanks for your efforts on this today, Marie.
And thanks to CafePress for their willingness to listen.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:31 pmP.D. – oh no!!! not a ‘Born Again’!!!
at least mine are just your standard midwestern variety of catholic…
but i’ve been away for almost 40 years, so a real outcast…
i do enjoy reminding them of their “ideals”…
November 21st, 2009 at 6:34 pm@ 5. Mathazar …
Exactly.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:34 pm32 had enough your right we really haven’t got the full picture of the horro done by Bush/Cheney in the pass 8 years. I learned of most of the torture done in Iraq when my daughter served there. Most of the truth hasn’t come out but President Obama has the classified information. We did so much it’s beyond what most Americans can handle. The soldiers who come home all need medical help. I had to pay for my daughter to see a doctor for her depression because the Military see’s it as a weakness. Yes we hear of some of those soldiers who have taken their lives but the number is much bigger and those still suffering. Remember our soldiers were under Stop Lock which they couldn’t leave the Military when their time was up thanks to Bush.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:35 pmKaty@38, EVERY year, me and my kids get Bibles and religious themed gifts. My mother badgers me into letting my kids go to her Church on Holloween. It never ends. Every converation ends up religious. And she wonders why I don’t call anymore?
November 21st, 2009 at 6:36 pmgully – of course they did it for the money, i hope so even…
because it would be more evil shared to do it for free…
but, that shop who allowed it has no scruples…
November 21st, 2009 at 6:37 pmwillow orchid — I had not thought of that possibility.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:41 pmIt could be that is the case.
All this does is incite hatred and violence, Violence is not an option in any situation. But tell that to Bush and Cheney. Obama should not take blame for the horrendous mess he was left with.
But why incite hate against the POTUS? I couldn’t stand Bush, but would never promote violence against his administration. Impeachment would have worked just fine.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:42 pmP.D. says:
And (they) wonder why I don’t call anymore?
I was once told that a person’s biggest challenge in life is to survive their parents.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:43 pmWillowOrchid
I believe they closed it down because they weren’t getting the sales. They continued because of the free publicity.
They are still rat bastards.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:44 pmMy favorite time of the holidays is midnight on the 25th when it is over with. I refuse to get caught up in the frenzy, view the members of the family all of which are FOX news supports with pity and know Jesus was not really born on the 25th.
I do like decorating my outdoor evergreen trees which c9 LED lights with a home made bunched up twinkle light set for the topper. Looks good and children in the neighborhood like it.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:44 pmP.D. @41
November 21st, 2009 at 6:46 pmI sympathize. Your situation would be very, very hard for me to abide.
I’m proud to say that I got one of those emails from CafePress this morning. Pressure works, and I’ve found that I’m more and more willing to exert it. :o)
YAY!!
November 21st, 2009 at 6:46 pm@ 33. P.D. says: Marie, What makes me aggravated is that my mother KNOWS better. She is highly educated. But since she became a ‘Born Again’ she REFUSES to accept the logical. She and my stepfather surround themselves with people who belive what they do. Quite frankly, it’s sad. They lead such a sheltered life. November 21st, 2009 at 6:17 pm
& @ 38. katy says: P.D. – oh no!!! not a ‘Born Again’!!! … November 21st, 2009 at 6:34 pm
It could be worse (not really) (snark snark)
I became a ‘born again’ over fifty years ago, at age 8. It only took me a little over ten years from that event to figure out that being born once was sufficient. That may be the key though; since I was ignorant at the time, I could learn my way out, while some poor soul that falls into the “Christer” trap after an extensive education and being an adult for many years may require more effort to extract. It’s not hopeless though; my mother’s family was seriously Talibabtist (South Ron Talibabtist Convention) and her older sister managed to get out of it; she became a Congregationalist and later, a Unitarian-Universalist. There were quite a few others in the family that never understood that, but they did have the common sense to not bring up their own stupidity in her presence.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:47 pmWillowOrchid says:
But really galls me is friends and acquaintances saying “Oh, I don’t pay attention to politics!
those are the ones who spout off with talking point lies in a smug self-righteous tone…
and/or b!tch about the ruinous state of civilization…
i know…
November 21st, 2009 at 6:48 pmThe national forest I live near sells Christmas tree permits, to be cut or dug up and transplanted.
I have a little grove started, and put popcorn strings on them for the birds.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:49 pmRegarding the religious extremes who don’t find anything wrong with threatening the life of Obama, and their comrades the teabaggers –
Did you all hear Lizz Winsted say she “crashed” a conference call between teabaggers planning strategy. Pretending to be one of them, she asked questions about the horrible actions of Obama so she could argue with Democrats – they could offer her nothing – NOTHING – only general terms (he’s not American or he’s a communist, he has a hidden agenda – nothing specific.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:54 pmThey told her to read Drudge or listen to Limbaugh or Beck and repeat what they say.
The idiots in charge don’t even know what they’re against!!
ugh… i am a slow reader…
virtual pebble, that is great info… check out mathazar @14 too…
November 21st, 2009 at 6:55 pmVirtual Pebble @ 36,
I admit, I am ignorant when it comes to Bible readings and I will assume you are correct.
But- with the phrase:
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
I have a huge problem with that phrase showing up anywhere in any context concerning President Obama with these insane religious nut cases we have.
November 21st, 2009 at 7:04 pmP.D. – i don’t know if quitting the calls is the best, but for sure a quick, sweet “ok then, love you, smooch, bye-eee” – and do it – would be perfect at such times the subject was broached…
…
i need to move around… that’s all for now…
good conversations – thanks!
November 21st, 2009 at 7:06 pm“22 percent saying it was fair.”
November 21st, 2009 at 7:07 pmbig surprise there, a direct reflection of the percent of people in this country identifying themselves as repukeliscums these days.
Virtual Pebble says:
“I became a ‘born again’ over fifty years ago, at age 8. It only took me a little over ten years from that event to figure out that being born once was sufficient.”
I had much the same experience. I was pressured, even threatened, to be born again. Then periodically, I would be pressured to be born again, again!
I never understood what parents and preachers were talking about, and I still don’t, at least not in the context they wished to force me into.
To live each day as a birth-day, open to what is real; and willing to discard beliefs and behavior from the past that aren’t real today, enables to spirit to refresh, renew and evolve.
November 21st, 2009 at 7:07 pm…76 percent calling the slogan “overly inflammatory and inappropriate”
Sorta restores ones faith in public opinion. Maybe just maybe we’re getting somewhere.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:32 pmToo litte, too late. I’ll never knowingly purchase anything thru cafepress, ever.
November 21st, 2009 at 9:31 pmHere is the new product that CafePress is replacing the Bear/Button with…
November 21st, 2009 at 10:06 pmwait a min.. so psalm 109:8 states “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.”
that’s a valid political statement, if people meant 109:9, they would have written in that verse. Sorry but this is a bit thin…
November 21st, 2009 at 10:45 pmChildren of the Corn says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:49 pmThe persecution of Christianity by the secular progressives continues. You cannot push religion out of the public square, oh heathens of Babylon!
yes because it’s persecuting you if we deny you the opportunity to get off on this psalm and praying for someone’s death…
you’re good children of the corn, didn’t realize you were a parody troll, lol…
November 21st, 2009 at 10:51 pmChildren of corn said:
Well that case who give a fu(k?
sorry, I don’t understand the comment in this context?
November 21st, 2009 at 10:56 pmChildren of the Corn says:
USCKitty, why don’t you and politicalpyro go to Las Vegas and make it legal?
you sure your head won’t explode, honey?
November 21st, 2009 at 11:04 pm@Children of the Corn
November 21st, 2009 at 11:08 pmHow does this have anything to do with my comment? The wording of 109:9 states that they dont want him in office. The fact that they knew enough to find that psalm means that atleast Someone in this country has to know the book pretty well.
There is no persecution of the “christianity” by progressives. Jesus was and is a “progressive”. He preached: love, justice, societal responsibility for the “least of these”. Right wingnut christianity is not the belief in Jesus the Savior but in Christ as King: judge, jury and executioner. And they see themselves as the annointed ones, having been preceeded in power by the leaders of the “Spanish Inquisition” and the brutal misguided Crusades. Progressives: walk the walk and talk the talk of Jesus the Savior.
November 21st, 2009 at 11:20 pmThat should have been a no-brainer so why all of these twists and turns. It makes no sense.
November 21st, 2009 at 11:35 pmCornHOLE
Just STFU you worthless pile of dogshit
November 21st, 2009 at 11:37 pmChildren of the Corn @ 61
The persecution of Christianity by the secular progressives continues. You cannot push religion out of the public square, oh heathens of Babylon!
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Hey corn, the reason religion is being pushed out of the public square has nothing to do with the secular progressives.
The Religious Right has perverted religion to such an extent that their brand of designer religion is ugly and not fit to be seen in public.
Their brand of religion has no redeeming value, this very blog in testimony to that.
November 21st, 2009 at 11:44 pmDildo of the Porn proves that religion, to the mind, is very similar to aids, to the body. Aids doesn’t kill the body but leaves it in a weakened state where simple parasites the body could normally ward off does it in. Religion doesn’t destroy the mind but leaves it in such a weakened state that it is susceptible to the destructive influences of greed, superstition, and bigotry that it could normally fend off but will eventually consume it.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:00 am#73 – CarmanK, your post reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw last year. It read: “I love your Christ but I can’t stand your Christians. They are nothing like your Christ”.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:13 am@ 55. had enough says: Virtual Pebble @ 36, I admit, I am ignorant when it comes to Bible readings and I will assume you are correct. But- with the phrase: Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow. I have a huge problem with that phrase showing up anywhere in any context concerning President Obama with these insane religious nut cases we have. November 21st, 2009 at 7:04 pm
I understand that problem, but as I said, by taking verse 8 out of context, they put the spin on it that you get – but that isn’t the intrinsic reading of the Psalm. Analytically, taking a verse, or a sentence, out of any document takes it from context; that context may dictate an entirely different meaning from what the ’spinner’ wants the reader to think. Out of context quotations are typically used by propagandists, shills, and other professional liars.
So, having noted that Psalm 109 takes on an entirely different meaning if the quote starts at 1, lets start at verse 1 and see just how it goes:
(1) O God of my praise, be silent no longer, for wicked men heap calumnies upon me.
(2) They have lied to my face and ringed me round with words of hate.
(3) They have attacked me without a cause and accused me though I have done nothing unseemly.
(4,5) They have repaid me evil for good and hatred in return for my love.
(6) They say, ‘Put up some rascal to denounce him, an accuser to stand at his right side.’
(7) But when judgement is given, that rascal will be exposed and his follies accounted a sin.
(8) May his days be few; may his (charge, office) fall to another.
(9) May his children be fatherless, his wife a widow!… (and so on and so forth)
That’s the version found in The New English Bible (Cambridge University Press, 1971 edition). The Masoretic Text of the Holy Scriptures (Jewish Publication Society, 1955 edition) is slightly different in it’s language, as would be other translations of the “Old Testament” in Christian bibles, but they all share the same flavor. A leader, the Psalmist, is having a problem with hypocrites and liars heaping trash talk on him, so he calls down a curse on them. And he specifically curses their spokesman, a “rascal” and “accuser” in the NE Bible, a “wicked man” and “adversary” in the Masoretic Text. But it should be clear from starting at the beginning of the Psalm, that it isn’t exactly what the righty spinners think it is.
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:19 am@ 78. DallasNE says: #73 – CarmanK, your post reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw last year. It read: “I love your Christ but I can’t stand your Christians. They are nothing like your Christ”. November 22nd, 2009 at 12:13 am
The usual attribution for that is that it’s a paraphase of something said by Mahatma Gandhi. Just a little FYI…
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:21 am@ 55. had enough …
OTOH, that business with verse 9 should be bothersome. Even though verse 8 was presumptively directed at President Obama’s accusers and adversaries, there are enough righty idiots out there who will look up Psalm 109, read verse 8, and move on to verse 9, and all the crap that follows in the curse, and take it for ratification, a rubber stamp, on whatever crazed violence they’re planning. Or if they’re just a witless bystander to whatever crazed violence does come, they’ll say something like, “told ya so – seen it in duh by bul”.
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:28 amGreat job virtual pebble
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:43 amVirtual Pebble @ 80 and 81
Fine. Please no more Bible lessons. I don’t care and it makes my head hurt.
@ 36… did you have to put in bold and ALL CAPS: IF YOU TAKE THE TROUBLE TO READ FROM THE FIRST VERSE AND NOT FROM THE EIGHTH. One might get the impression you are doing some arse kicking.
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 amChildren of the Corn says:
November 22nd, 2009 at 8:21 am“62, Your link doesn’t work. Not that I want to see your liberal crap anyway.”
You looked just the same…
@ 83. had enough says: Virtual Pebble @ 80 and 81, Fine. Please no more Bible lessons. I don’t care and it makes my head hurt. @ 36… did you have to put in bold and ALL CAPS: IF YOU TAKE THE TROUBLE TO READ FROM THE FIRST VERSE AND NOT FROM THE EIGHTH. One might get the impression you are doing some arse kicking. November 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 am
Sorry, had enough, I meant no pain to you; just working at a nice wedgie for the trolls. I don’t ordinarily do Bible lessons but this particular thread and the other one on Psalm 109 kind of required it for refutative purposes, again for the idiot trolls. Sometimes it takes a heavyweight craphammer to nail them, yanno?
I am a stickler for not quoting out of context, however, and that goes for any reference documentation that is being quoted ‘authoritatively’ by the trolls. Hence the yelling about starting with Verse 1, rather than Verse 8. This isn’t the only arena in which the trolls are quoting out of context, although they’ll always claim that their out-of-context stuff represents the truth of whatever matter is under discussion. Here’s a good, but OT, example of the start of a ruckus with out of context speechifying by anonymous arses; it popped up this morning regarding climate change and we can expect to hear more about it:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091121/ap_on_sc/eu_climate_hacked_e_mails
Pay close attention to last two paragraphs if you look at the article.
ps. Climate change, environmental issues, science, engineering and technology are more my bag than some other stuff, but I do have some interest in politics, religion, social issues, philosophy, and on and on. Just another omnivore.
pps. @ 82. thanks for the kind words, EugeneDebs. now when can we get us a better class of troll? or are we just stuck with the current one(s)?
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:22 pmVirtual Pebble,
Bottom line – you kicked my butt @ #36 in the name of religion and with 8 recommends. No pain caused here but much confusion and disappointment. I had to recheck to make sure I was not on foxnation.com.
To your comment Psalm 109 kind of required it for refutative purposes, again for the idiot trolls. Sometimes it takes a heavyweight craphammer to nail them, yanno?
In my opinion, too much attention is paid to the trolls. This web site would be more informative if more attention was directed to the topic rather than negative energy towards the trolls. I rarely get into the troll bashing, but when I do I find the recommends go up … and that is not right. And I will take this a step further – when the board gets junked up by troll bashing, the trolls win.
November 22nd, 2009 at 2:04 pmThis Psalm can be construed to be any reference to Barack Obama. There are no black people in the Bible, period. Ask any white Bible thumper to confirm that. How can the Wrong Right be so wrong all of the time?
November 22nd, 2009 at 2:42 pmhad enough says:
Virtual Pebble,
Bottom line – you kicked my butt @ #36 in the name of religion and with 8 recommends. No pain caused here but much confusion and disappointment.
I THINK (but obviously do not know) that the recommends may have been generated from the last paragraph of #36.
In my opinion, too much attention is paid to the trolls.
I completely agree. I try my best to ignore the basturds but break down once in awhile.
November 22nd, 2009 at 6:38 pmA corporation that cares about polls?
This is new.
It was stupid of them to produce good with scripture numbers on them without checking into what they mean first.
Like the bard said the Devil can quote the Bible to suit his purpose.
November 22nd, 2009 at 9:31 pm@ 86. had enough says: Virtual Pebble, Bottom line – you kicked my butt @ #36 in the name of religion and with 8 recommends. No pain caused here but much confusion and disappointment. I had to recheck to make sure I was not on foxnation.com.
I hope I didn’t put too much loft on you; wouldn’t want to hear that you ended up in the next county or the middle of next week. That’s my fault though. I structured that paragraph very poorly. Only the first sentence was specifically directed to you. The part with the yelling was for the general audience, and most particularly, some of the trolls.
I don’t spend time at foxnation or any of the troll sites; I’ve looked at ‘little green’ a couple of times and found it lacking. There’s something unsatisfactory or deficient about the site.
@ 86 & 88. had enough & mary lacewing…
Ah, trolls. What can I say that hasn’t been said before? They certainly are a nuisance and disagreeable, but until the proprietors of TP find a way to confine their activity, I think we’re stuck with them.
I think that some of them can be engaged and taught, but some are obviously beyond that. The perpetual adolescent types that are just here for name calling and shit flinging could be done without. The ones that will not engage, who just keep repeating the same stupid argument over and over again and who will not substantiate assertions, etc, are also a type that can be done without. C’est la vie en media…
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:04 am@ 87. Parlezvous says: This Psalm can be construed to be any reference to Barack Obama. There are no black people in the Bible, period. Ask any white Bible thumper to confirm that. How can the Wrong Right be so wrong all of the time? November 22nd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I agree in part, Parlevous. Attempting to map the Bible to current events is likely to be folly. Trying to apply any Psalm to our President doesn’t really make sense; the Psalms are not prophecy and most of what is prophecy is directed to the immediate neighborhood and time of the prophecy.
The same can be said of any other historical event; using it in an analogy always breaks down. Obviously, some of the moral and ethical teachings in the Bible are as applicable today as then, but that can be said of any religion with an ethical or moral component.
I think that Africans and black people or at least their countries are mentioned in the Bible. I can think of three right offhand. There’s Nubia, for instance, which was generally where what we call Sudan is. The Egyptians were then, as now, a mix of African and Semitic peoples. My recollection is that Sheba, of the Queen there-of, is traditionally located in Ethiopia or northern Somalia, although some think it to be the Yemen.
The right can be wrong all the time because they make crap up and then believe it. Believing your own spin can make for interesting mistakes.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:23 amRead this today and it pleases me that (as usual) rightwingnutz DO NOT COMPREHEND the subject(s)about which they speak.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:12 pmIn Psalms 109, King David, who is a major figure in the Old Testament is lamenting.
He says: For wicked and deceitful mouths are opened against me,
speaking against me with lying tongues.
They beset me with words of hate,
and attack me without cause.
In return for my love they accuse me,
even while I make prayer for them.
So they reward me evil for good,
and hatred for my love.
For wicked and deceitful mouths are opened against me? He goes on:
They say, Appoint a wicked man against him;
let an accuser stand on his right.
When he is tried, let him be found guilty;
let his prayer be counted as sin.
May his days be few;
may another seize his position.
May his children be orphans,
and his wife a widow.
May his children wander about and beg;
may they be driven out of the ruins they inhabit.
May the creditor seize all that he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his toil.
And then King David says,
Help me, O Lord my God!
Save me according to your steadfast love.
Let them know that this is your hand;
you, O Lord, have done it.
Let them curse, but you will bless.
Let my assailants be put to shame; may your servant be glad.
May my accusers be clothed with dishonour;
may they be wrapped in their own shame as in a mantle.
With my mouth I will give great thanks to the Lord;
I will praise him in the midst of the throng.
For he stands at the right hand of the needy,
to save them from those who would condemn them to death.
For those would quote the Bible for their justifications, wouldn’t you think they can do a bit better than this?
The rich irony is that those who have chosen this Bible verse as a slogan clearly have no idea of the context and meaning of that which they quote.
The Bible clearly says the exact opposite of that which they imply.