Gun Lobby Mobilizes Against Health Reform By Claiming Obama Administration Will Issue ‘No Guns’ Decree
Gun Lobby Mobilizes Against Health Reform By Claiming Obama Administration Will Issue ‘No Guns’ Decree
On Friday, Gun Owners of America sent out an action alert to its 300,000 members warning that the Senate health care bill “would mandate that doctors provide ‘gun-related health data’ to ‘a government database,’ including information on mental-health issues detected in patients, which could jeopardize their ability to obtain a firearms license.” The alert also warned its membership that the “wellness and prevention” provisions in the health care bill would allow the Obama administration to issue a “no guns” decree:
Finally, as we have mentioned several times in the past, the mandates in the legislation will most likely dump your gun-related health data into a government database that was created in section 13001 of the stimulus bill. This includes any firearms-related information your doctor has gleaned…or any determination of PTSD, or something similar, that can preclude you from owning firearms.
And, the special “wellness and prevention” programs (inserted by Section 1001 of the bill as part of a new Section 2717 in the Public Health Services Act) would allow the government to offer lower premiums to employers who bribe their employees to live healthier lifestyles — and nothing within the bill would prohibit rabidly anti-gun HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius from decreeing that “no guns” is somehow healthier.
The so-called “gun-related health data” is actually anonymous statistical information to help researchers develop health programs and initiatives that serve specific population groups or further the study of various conditions and medical needs. Section 2705 of the Senate health bill permits employers to vary insurance premiums by as much as 30 percent for employee participation in certain health promotion and disease prevention programs, but stipulates that the employer wellness program must be “based on an individual satisfying a standard that is related to a health status factor.” Gun ownership does not fall into this category.
This fear-mongering should be seen as the continuation of a multimillion dollar effort launched by the gun lobby to portray Obama as “a threat to the Second Amendment rights.” Prior to the election, the NRA claimed of Obama, “[N]ever in NRA’s history have we faced a presidential candidate…with such a deep-rooted hatred of firearm freedoms.” Since the election, the NRA and other gun groups continue to misinform voters about Obama’s gun policy proposals, claiming that unrelated policies — like the economic stimulus — are part of a broader campaign to strip gun rights.
“I’m not going to take away your guns,’’ Obama has repeatedly said. Nevertheless, sensing an opportunity to gain more members and fuel gun sales, the gun lobby has preyed on people’s fears by making up false claims.
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These people are hopeless and ignorant. As a gun owner, I know full well that Obama has taken no steps to deny ANYONE guns. The NRA preys on the unintelligent and ignorant Sheeple to make more sales. How immoral is that?
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:58 amThey are really reaching now.
Hey! Did you hear the health bill will fund the rebuilding of the Berlin Wall?
Whoa! I heard the health bill will give Texas back to Mexico!!
Watch out! It’s said that the health bill will outlaw Christmas!!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:01 amStupid, delusional, and easily swayed. None of those should be allowed to own a gun.
The 2nd amendment is a pretty nifty amendment, but, c’mon. PTSD is a very real, and very serious, medical condition. If you’re prone to excessive amounts of stress or mental anguish, the last thing you need is a firearm.
Also, for anyone who uses the “self-defense” excuse behind the gov’mint taking arms from the schizophrenics and sociopathics alike…axes are still legal. And no one is pushing for tighter axe control.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:04 amART@2, LOL! The whole ‘War on Christmas’ is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. My father got sweeped into that whole thing. I laughed at him because you can’t watch TV or go shopping without Christmas staring right in your face. What a crock.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:04 amWell I am hoping that not all of the 300,000 are as dumb as these are. I was wondering went the gun nuts were going to start there BS.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:04 amIt was also outlaw meat!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:05 amAnd mandate soy consumption!
And make heterosexuality marriage illegal!
…it’s too early in the day…
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:05 amHeaven forbid we’d want to deny access to firearms to the criminally insane!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:06 amFear sells.
Sex sells.
How come the fear of sex doesn’t sell? ;-)
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:07 amthese folks lack any modicum of common sense or intelligence…
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:07 amThey should form a separate group, “Sociopaths/Psychopaths for Gun Rights”, because clearly, if you outlaw deranged psychopaths from having guns, then… actually, now that I think of it, although they’re not proposing it in health care reform, it’s not such a bad idea.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:08 amLibLover @#9 ~ Because only reichwing XioFundies are afraid of sex, and they don’t want to spend money on anything but cheap plastic crap for Xmas.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:08 amOh, it does. Abstinence only education just got another 50m in the health bill.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:09 amRemember how loudly these people screetched when Obama pointed out that they were “clinging” to their guns? Funny how he turned out to be exactly right.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:09 amHow many of these firearms devotees are actually a part of a
‘well regulated militia’>>>???
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:10 amWHen the right-whiners don’t have facts on their side (which is about 99.99% of the time) they make crap up. The bigger the lie, the more likely the right-whining lemmings will follow along without even attempting to engage their brains.
Sad, but true!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:10 amWell it looks as if gun sales are down and they need something to promote more sales of guns.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:10 amLibertyLover says:
How come the fear of sex doesn’t sell? ;-)
_____________
It does… how else do you account for fundamental religions?
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:10 amWhile out purchasing ammunition for my annual Deer hunting, I noticed a shortage on the shelves. I asked the clerk if ammo makers were experiencing a production slowdown. He said no, but many people were buying extra ammo because they think President Obama is going to take their guns.
I was speechless.
Never underestimate the power of fear. Republics, the Catholic Church and Republics play this like a Vegas card dealer.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:11 amLibertyLover at 10:07 am
How come the fear of sex doesn’t sell? ;-)
I thought the best selling book in the world was the Bible. Doesn’t it teach the fear of sex? Because these Fundies sure are afraid of it.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:11 amGotta wonder if the jerk holding the green sign is a member of Armed Backboners for Jesus.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:11 amApparently, the F-in’ STUPIDITY of those folks simply knows no bounds…
They’re giving me a bad name… I’ll have to come up w/ a new brand… :-P…
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:13 amGuns may kill people, but so does lack of health care…
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:15 amThis is another pack of lies that needs to be met head on.
Health care is too important of an issue to be allowed to die on the vine. President Obama promised that false claimers on the issues “would be called out”…remember?
I get really PO’d about seeing the insurance lobby’s commercial where the announcer talks about “crushing taxes, increasing the deficit, cuts in Medicare, sky rocketing health premiums” etc. We should have a response running after each airing!
It’s not enough to run a heart warming story about people who need insurance. The lies must be countered in the peoples mind.
Crushing taxes…hardly. The rich will simply pay what they had before Bush’s tax breaks.
Increasing deficit…Wrong again. The health bill actually reduces the deficit over the period provided.
Cuts to Medicare…BS. The bill eliminates the subsidies the insurance companies are currently getting for doing nothing.
Sky rocketing premiums…Wake up America. Your premiums are sky rocketing now…that’s if you can get health insurance.
There are a few Democrats responding to this crap (Weiner, Brown/Durbin from the Senate), but not enough.
The old saying says that if you throw enough crap on the wall, some of it will stick. This is exactly what the Repugs are doing and we are letting them get away with it.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:15 amThese folks are so paranoid and out of the mainstream that they will probably see an anti-gun message in everything the president says or does.
I’m sure their next target will be some subtle anti-gun code words in Obama’s Thanksgiving message or something…
http://www.political-buzz.com/
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:16 amThat’s too many syllables for a catchy sound bite, RU…
Perhaps they should shorten that name to BONERS FOR JESUS…
Birthers…
Baggers…
Schlongers…
Boners…
Siiiiiiiigh… we knew it was coming…
(This stuff writes itself after a while…)
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:17 amSo I am wondering if the repugs views the gun debate as part of there health care plan.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 amDont get sick
if you do get sick
by a gun
die quickly!
Notice the phrase at the bottom of the sign the man in the picture is holding…
“The Eyes of the Eagle”… indeed…
More like “The Testicles of the Hamster”…
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:19 amMore hype from the gun lobby to continue the boom in arms sales to the brainwashed dipshit hickoids due to the black guy residing in the White House.
Nothing more.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:19 amLOL! My mother and Stepfather have been hoarding ammo since the dreaded ‘Y2K’ was supposed to usher in the Rapture.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:20 amThe NRA preys on the unintelligent and ignorant Sheeple to make more sales. How immoral is that?
Immoral, that’s the Republican way!
Anything for a buck.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:21 amEnnuiDivine says:
“Stupid, delusional, and easily swayed. None of those should be allowed to own a gun.”
SSSHHH! Someone might want to take away Glenda’s gat:
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 amhttp://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/22/beck-gun-movies/
Mmmmmmm Mmmmmmm Mmmmmmm Guns and Butter and more sales for the gun manufacturers. Lobbyism at its lying finest.
Fear!!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:26 amGun Queers being stampeded by their own paranoia. How dumb is that? Works for the gun and ammo sellers!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:30 amSo what i hear the NRA is saying is that yes indeed they back Major Hassan’s right to buy and use a pistol for his own enjoyment.
as we are finding out that the Major was maybe a little on the tippy side went it came to mental health.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:31 amI hear that standard guns and bullets are useless against the shape shifting Martians skulking around secretly on Earth.
Buy your reverse spin electromagnetic Tesla weapon from me for only 199.95 each. Be a patriot and neutralize the aliens in both political parties and posing as pundits.
All real patriots will do their duty and buy my equalizer to protect their family from the imperialist Martians wanting to make slaves, and soylent green of you!!
Call now 1-800-Die-Martn
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:32 amAs much as I can remember I think the 2nd amendment came up once or twice during the Obama campaign and about the same with that McMavericky guy and his Gal,to say Obama has any type of “deep rooted hatred of firearms is Fear mongering from the NRA(National Retards Assoc).As a gun wielding progressive hunter I am glad I don`t belong to the “Jackbooted” morons (NRA)but mostly as a hunter I am disgusted.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:36 amOff Topic… ‘Army asks Palin not to give speech at book signing.’
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:36 amXisithrus says:
Buy your reverse spin electromagnetic Tesla weapon from me for only 199.95 each. Be a patriot and neutralize the aliens in both political parties and posing as pundits.
Will you throw in a easy rider rife rack. with paid postage?
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:37 amHaha- they are worried that will premiums will increase to those with “itchy trigger fingers”
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:38 amP.D. says:
Off Topic… ‘Army asks Palin not to give speech at book signing.’
…because if she left soldiers standing in the cold rain as her bus left they would shoot the tires flat.
See, P.D., guns can be brought into any conversation!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:40 am@41, Slaves? You’re an idiot!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:40 amWill you throw in a easy rider rife rack. with paid postage?
Not only that I will buy your gold, just put that useless family heirloom in the mail and I will, once recieved, mail you a check thats in the mail, always.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:41 amOkay, correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t those Death Panels NEED their guns and ammunition, to off senior citizens.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:41 amActually, slaves built America, OSTL.
Are you proud of that ‘tradition’?
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:41 amZim@42, LOL! I still can’t believe she had the BALLS to drive off while her fans were standing there. It was not only crass, it was dumb.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:42 amEnnuiDivine says:
And make heterosexuality marriage illegal!
Didn’t they do that with their anti-gay marriage Constitutional amendment in Texas?
“this state or political subdivision of this state may not create or recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage,”
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:42 amThe gun nuts believe they are going to defend themselves or fight off a tyrannical government, yet, there is never a run on bullet proof vests and helmets.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:43 amXisithrus says:
I hear that standard guns and bullets are useless against the shape shifting Martians skulking around secretly on Earth.
Buy your reverse spin electromagnetic Tesla weapon from me for only 199.95 each. Be a patriot and neutralize the aliens in both political parties and posing as pundits.
All real patriots will do their duty and buy my equalizer to protect their family from the imperialist Martians wanting to make slaves, and soylent green of you!!
Call now 1-800-Die-Martn
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:43 amYour ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Guns have kept this country free for over 200 years.
Prisons are chock full of people that guns have freed!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:43 amAnd now that there in prison their guns have been liberated! YaY!!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:43 amXisithrus @33,I wish I would have thought of that one.It`s quite disgusting what these lobbyist will do for their agenda, all of this bull coming from the right sounds like PROTO-FASCSIM to me.The fear mongering about guns,race and money and Xtianity it all rings a bell very much like Hitler and Mussolini and instead of concentration camps we have pay or die health insurance.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:43 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Xisithrus says:
Will you throw in a easy rider rife rack. with paid postage?
Not only that I will buy your gold, just put that useless family heirloom in the mail and I will, once recieved, mail you a check thats in the mail, always.
hot diggie dam I bet you even are so genours being the god fearing right winger you are (smiles) I can trust you with every thing.
were do i send my blind faith to you>>>
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:45 amAs if they needed one more issue to rally their base…
This one goes hand in hand with their racist tendencies. Guns are constitutionally mandated for white folks… but not anyone else. If you have dark skin and a gun, you’re a terrist.
This will not end well, or soon.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:45 amwe have pay
orAND die health insurance.Heh
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:45 amThe NRA is afraid they’re gonna lose a lot of customers belonging to a certain segment of the market: the wacko loonies who love guns.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:45 amP.D. says:
LOL! My mother and Stepfather have been hoarding ammo since the dreaded ‘Y2K’ was supposed to usher in the Rapture.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:20 am
___________
Ok I have to interject here on behalf of my colleagues in the nerd community. It’s easy for us to dismiss Y2K as a “threat that didn’t materialize,” but it was actually a quite serious problem. The reason it didn’t materialize was because lots of programmers spent the prior years fixing lots and lots and lots of code that would’ve caused problems with transportation systems and banking systems and power plants and other critical networks. Yes, it got a bit overhyped with all the rapture stuff, but I look at it as a triumph of the geeks.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 amThe biggest threat to the safety of the average American is not terrorism, it is the widespread availability of guns. If there is to be gun ownership the rules need to be tightened considerably. The Federal Government should outlaw all concealed carry laws, all guns should be locked in safes when not in use. All guns tranported should be locked in car trunks in special containers. All use of guns should be limited to licensed gun ranges or designated hunting areas. No automatic guns. All semi automatic guns should be limited to 5 round magazines. There should be mandatory prison sentences for violation of any rules. Let them have their 2nd amendment, but the emphasis should be on the “well regulated” wording.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 am*sniff, sniff*
What’s that smell?
Oh, it’s eebeano breath and his pathetic solicitation.
Hey buddy, I gots yo’ Privacy Center, right here!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 am@4 – Consumerist has been railing against the expansion of the Christmas shopping season since Labor Day. Yup, some retailers have had their Christmas crap out since the first week of September.
If Bill O’Reilly or John Gibson want to point fingers at Consumerist as being anti-Christmas, I might break down and watch, just for the entertainment value.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:47 amThose gun totting rwnut morons are squealing like stuck pigs because in their paranoid hallucinations not owning a gun is the same as having a tiny Cheney.
Say, Bovine, how many AK-47’s do you own?
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:47 amHow about your dessert bagel? Still stroke it every night before you fall sleep?
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Just Google for MUFON — like a good samaritan concerned about your wallet I run all these MUFON sites. Its not a hoax its a Martian conspiracy!!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:47 am@11 – That would look cool on a T-Shirt. Think CafePress would banninate me for that?
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:48 amXisithru @57,true dat!!!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:48 amXis, should I have bought a squirrel?
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:49 amLike the students at Virginia Tech, JFK, MLK, RFK?
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:50 amwere do i send my blind faith to you>>>
I used to use Ben Gneehinn but he ripped me off.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:50 amXis, should I have bought a squirrel?
With my Teslatic technology you can turn a shape shifting Martian into a squirrel!
No need to buy a squirrel or a popcorn popper!!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:52 amAh yes and, “The geek shall inherit the earth.”
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:54 amdixie blood says:
The gun nuts believe they are going to defend themselves or fight off a tyrannical government,
They will have the same chance that Uday and Qusay had fighting off a “tyrannical government” with their deer rifles when the Hellfire missles come flying through the window.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:54 amOSTL says:
Guns have kept this country free for over 200 years. We’re not slaves like they are in England, France or Greece.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:39 am
_________
Interestingly, Great Britain and France abolished slavery in the 1830s and Greece abolished it in 1823, over 40 years before the United States did.
Just sayin…
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:55 amInteresting, isn’t it, that these gun-toting morons are all in favor of any woman who has an abortion having her personal information posted all over the web – but Dog forbid they should even have to fill out their names and addresses to get a license to own a gun…
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:56 am“The geek shall inherit the earth.”
They too are Martians who wrote the ebil ebil y2k code in the first place!!
By my LHC Higgs Boson mini black hole device and suck the ebil code right outta the geeksters haids!!!
/joking
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:57 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Xisithrus says:
I just want to say that I bought one of those anti-Martian things from this guy and it works great! I ain’t had one little green man bothering me since. All of the red-necked, I mean red-blooded, Americans ought to own one of these. It’s cheap protection.
**psst, Xisithrus, will this endorsement get me a cut of the action?**
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:58 amA free country? What are you, some kind of socialist? Why don’t you get a job and buy a country loser?
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:59 amMay the souls of the slain children haunt their dreams.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:59 amOn Friday, Gun Owners of America sent out an action alert to its 300,000 members warning….
The logic in their statements is so twisted, it should be a pretzel.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:00 amTalk about fantasies and fear… this is absolute nonsense. However, these Glenn Beck worshipers will always drink the koolaid. Too bad the koolaid isn’t spiked.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:02 amAre you suggesting that legal gun owners are the biggest threat to America?
I think the suggestion is being made by the guy in the photo with the sign that says “The Armed Citizen is the Backbone of Our Country”.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:02 amOn the plus side the only people those armchair pistol packers above are like to shoot is somebody from their own gene pool thereby raising the average IQ of their community.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:02 amSince when do college student collecting frogs look like deer?
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 amFVNY, the point is that nobody is talking about taking any guns away from anybody. It’s another non-issue used to keep you dimwits chasing your tail instead of looking out for your best interests.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:04 amWiz says:
The biggest threat to the safety of the average American is not terrorism, it is the widespread availability of guns. If there is to be gun ownership the rules need to be tightened considerably.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 am
___________
If you want to be really accurate, the biggest threat is heart disease, followed by cancer and stroke. Homicide is #15 on the list of top causes of death in the U.S.. In fact, you’re twice as likely to kill yourself than be murdered.
If we really want to protect the public, we should be looking at the rules on cheeseburger ownership long before guns.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:05 am**psst, Xisithrus, will this endorsement get me a cut of the action?**
Yes, but we must use a portion of the proceeds to pay off I mean uh hire some uh lobbyists to protect our profits. Shelly Bachhmun is already on board and will use her star power to elicit fear of teh marshuns.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:07 amCats says:
Talk about fantasies and fear… this is absolute nonsense. However, these Glenn Beck worshipers will always drink the koolaid. Too bad the koolaid isn’t spiked.
it is spiked>>>> its spiked with stupid!!
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:07 amSpinn Wreck incites fear in these people then builds a six foot wall around his house to keep the wackos out.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:08 amThey’ll have to pry my rocket launcher from my cold dead hands….
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:10 am76 FVNY
Gun regulation CUTS into the profits of the GUN MANUFACTURERS.
Hunting sportsmen DO NOT NEED an AK-47 to shoot ducks, hunters DO NOT NEED automatic, semi-automatic, or high caliber weapons with armor piercing bullets to shoot animals in enclosed parcels.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:10 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Are you suggesting that legal gun owners are the biggest threat to America? Because regulation is only going to effect legal gun owners.
Eh?
Like illegal aliens being hired by greedy people looking for cheap labor I dont sell guns to criminals or have ever hired an illegal alien. Yet you seem to be pointing a finger in my direction.
Who, then, is, responsible for all these guns getting into gangbangers and crooks hands??
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:12 amCriminals will always have access to guns via the blackmarket, even if every gun was made illegal and every gun manufacturer was shut down.
Fear!!!! Buy more guns!!
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:13 amWould the gun toters please kindly turn towards each other..take aim.. and FIRE.
Though this may prove to be a big blip on homicide statistics for the year.. it would be a boon for a variety of other issues.. such as health care, literacy, domestic violence, hate crimes and especially the blight of conservatism.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:14 amUnfettered gun ownership for anyone who wants one, as these kooks would have it, is not the answer. Watch Bowling for Columbine.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:15 amThe paranoia of the action alert sent out by Gun Owners of America kind of proves their own point…hello freakazoids…you paranoiacs should not have guns and your mental condition really should be reported…
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:17 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
FVNY
your point is: completely unrelated to the fricken topic.. that’s what your point is.
Just like the concerns of this morons with their signs and the gun lobby – irrelevant to the fricken issue.
wtf – only in America would proposing a health care bill cause gun sales to rise. seriously… give it up, you people equate the most ridiculous things to each other.. I understand than possibly in your neck of the woods you have reason to suspect all things are related – but enough already
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:19 amThese not this.
damn.. proofreading is important.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:20 amFVNY says:
That’s not what I’m suggesting. But the idea that regulating legal gun owners will lead to the end of guns being used in violent crimes in America is a fantasy.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:18 am
__________
Exactly. It’s a fantasy cooked up by the NRA and Gun Owners of America as a straw man they can easily shoot down. We are well aware that merely regulating legal gun owners, by itself, is not going to stop crime and could indeed be counterproductive.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:20 amI would like to thank the NRA for protecting my right to buy a $300 gun and the insurance companies’ right to sell me a $2100 per month health insurance policy. Your priorities are incredible.
Really incredible.
/snark off
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:21 amWeeeelll, since it was another scheme cooked up by uptight reightwingers (as a guilt-based atonement no doubt), then I would say…no…
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:22 amImmigration nut: You [points enraged finger] are the cause of illegal immigration!!
Moderate: I dont hire illegals, never have.
Immigration nut: Beck says you are and he reads lots of books!!
Moderate: Seriously?
Gun Nut: You [Points powder burned finger] you you want to take my guns away!!
Moderate: Why? I can get them off the blackmarket and so can you, apparently, even if guns are, which they arent, outlawed.
Gun Nut: Liar!! You lie!! HanNewty said so and he tells pravda!!
Moderate: Just Wow.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:22 amAction Alert! ACTION ALERT!
LOCK AND LOAD, SAFETIES OFF!
Now proceed to clean that bore, make sure you look down inside the barrel to see if it’s shiny clean, while you pull the trigger.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:23 amBut the idea that regulating legal gun owners will lead to the end of guns being used in violent crimes in America is a fantasy.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:24 am—
Did I miss where someone suggested such? Reasonable gun regulation is about public safety
FVNY says:
Has the War on Drugs been successful?
See, the problem is that we havent bought enough guns off the blackmarket to win the war on drugs.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:24 amFVNY, nobody is talking about any more regulation of gun owners. Did you read the article? You stupid people are led like lambs to slaughter.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:24 amBased on gun sales of late, it looks as though the country is suffering through an epidemic of males born with significantly undersized Johnsons who are finally reaching ‘maturity’. I’d think they’d want national health care. Enlargement technology, you know.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:24 amugh.. I need more coffee.. two mistakes in one statement.
FVNY.. Look at it this way.. I understand the whole idea that you can’t take everyone’s guns away… I object to guns – but I don’t have a solution for the problem, because I do believe you can’t remove them without leaving criminals as the only ones armed. I see the sense in that idea as much as I wish there was an alternative.
But this paranoia is out of control. We are talking health care.. not disarmament.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:24 amHave speed limit laws ended fatal highway accidents?
Have murder laws ended murder?
Have laws prohibiting stealing ended theft?
Building strawmen is fun! No wonder right wingers and “libertarians” do it so often.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:25 amFVNY says
But the idea that regulating legal gun owners will lead to the end of guns being used in violent crimes in America is a fantasy.
______________________________
dbadass says
Did I miss where someone suggested such? Reasonable gun regulation is about public safety
__________________________________________________________
I was referring to Wiz’s comments. It appears he is suggesting that legal gun owners are the biggest threat to America and regulation is the answer. I don’t agree with his assessmnet.
Wiz says:
——————————————————————————–
The biggest threat to the safety of the average American is not terrorism, it is the widespread availability of guns. If there is to be gun ownership the rules need to be tightened considerably. The Federal Government should outlaw all concealed carry laws, all guns should be locked in safes when not in use. All guns tranported should be locked in car trunks in special containers. All use of guns should be limited to licensed gun ranges or designated hunting areas. No automatic guns. All semi automatic guns should be limited to 5 round magazines. There should be mandatory prison sentences for violation of any rules. Let them have their 2nd amendment, but the emphasis should be on the “well regulated” wording.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:29 amQbala says:
Unfettered gun ownership for anyone who wants one, as these kooks would have it, is not the answer.
We do not have unfettered gun ownership. We have federal laws that are difficult to enforce because the people who sell guns comply halfheartedly. The second problem is the jumble of state laws and how much they are enforced. Last, we have the municipal gun laws which are usually the most restrictive, but do little because of the the lack of laws for neighboring towns. It is very difficult to get new federal and state laws enacted because of the NRA. On the local level, cities and towns have less of a problem because the gun violence is more immediate to the area. The problem with large cities and towns is that the guns coming in are from other areas so there is an inherent problem with enforcing the local laws.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:30 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Have speed limit laws ended fatal highway accidents?
Have murder laws ended murder?
Have laws prohibiting stealing ended theft?
Heh.
Has Mcdonalds cured obesity?
Has cows stopped producing methane?
Has trains stopped trainwrecks?
Has stoopit stopped the ability to breed?
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:31 amugh.. I need more coffee.. two mistakes in one statement.
FVNY.. Look at it this way.. I understand the whole idea that you can’t take everyone’s guns away… I object to guns – but I don’t have a solution for the problem, because I do believe you can’t remove them without leaving criminals as the only ones armed. I see the sense in that idea as much as I wish there was an alternative.
But this paranoia is out of control. We are talking health care.. not disarmament.
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I agree with all of the above points.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:33 amThe legal gun owner has not!
I thinking Roeder, for one, bought his gun legally.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:34 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
FVNY says:The difference is that the “straw men” in your three examples have actually committed a crime. The legal gun owner has not!
AWWWW Major Hassan borough his gun legally.
and guess why he is not a straw man!
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:36 amBut they can’t own a gun legally after they do.
Well, duh, who wants armed prisoners??
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:37 amonce again.. I can’t even believe I’m arguing the obvious:
that health care reform won’t infringe on gun owners rights.
maybe I should object to health care reform based on the effects it will have on the music industry..?
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:38 amI’m not saying that a legal gun owner can’t committ a crime.
What I am saying is that people cant control their emotions and its not the gun that pulls its own trigger.
And when people like Beck start this transference of blame for ratings/profits he is creating a problem BEHIND the gun.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:39 amYour strawman: Legal gun owners are being persecuted if their mental instability will be reported to authorities…
Fact: If they are legal gun owners, that implies they follow the law and have no problem with following the law…therefore, if they are judged to be ‘going off the deep end’, and end up being reported to the ‘law’, they have no trouble complying with the law, right?
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:39 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Xisithrus says:
What I am saying is that people cant control their emotions and its not the gun that pulls its own trigger.
And when people like Beck start this transference of blame for ratings/profits he is creating a problem BEHIND the gun.
“Control Beck, not guns!”
/snark
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:41 amI was referring to felons not in prison.
So how do you stop a felon from buying a gun off the blackmarket?
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:43 am…and nothing within the bill would prohibit rabidly anti-gun HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius from decreeing that “no guns” is somehow healthier.
Nothing in the bill prohibits HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius from decreeing that a martian attack would be hazardous to everybody’s health, either.
Steps must be taken!
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:44 amFVNY: “My point is that regulation of legal gun owners is not going to help curb the flow of illegal guns in this country. Criminals will always have access to guns via the blackmarket, even if every gun was made illegal and every gun manufacturer was shut down.”
Just because a given law is not completely effective it does not automatically follow that we shouldn’t enact the law. And regulations on firearms actually do affect illegal owners. When they are arrested, there’s an additional charge and the firearms are taken out of circulation. Plus, when you arrest a person who sells arms illegally, you’re cutting down on the number of illegal firearms.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:44 amGOA has proven itself to be even more insane than NRA. Only Blackwater is crazier!
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:47 amSo how do you stop a felon from buying a gun off the blackmarket?
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You don’t. But they’re not allowed to purchase a legal firearm. That is a regulation that I agree with. They’ve proven themselves unreliable and not responsible enough to own a gun.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:48 amGun ownership is just another way to “fire up the rubes,” just like abortion. Nobody is going to take away guns from law-abiding citizens – Democrats never have and I’ve never heard any planning to. And, nobody is going to write and pass legislation making abortion illegal. Repubs had 12 years running congress, a friendly court system and 8 years of radical Repub conservatives in the White House. If they were going to do it, they would have. But, that would have taken away one of their primary ways of “firing up the rubes.”
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:49 amJust because a given law is not completely effective it does not automatically follow that we shouldn’t enact the law. And regulations on firearms actually do affect illegal owners. When they are arrested, there’s an additional charge and the firearms are taken out of circulation. Plus, when you arrest a person who sells arms illegally, you’re cutting down on the number of illegal firearms.
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How does regulation of legal gun owners lead to less illegal guns?
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:49 amHow does regulation of legal gun owners lead to less illegal guns?
As if there aren’t those who possess both legal and illegal firearms? Come on.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:51 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
As if there aren’t those who possess both legal and illegal firearms? Come on.
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Huh?
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:53 amWithout regulation all gun ownership is legal, murderers, terrorist and psycopaths. Get it? Now you’re just spamming.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:53 am98 FVNY
ONE MORE TIME.
Nobody in the left or progressives are suggesting the Obama administration is about to outlaw the ownership of guns, ONLY the paranoid rwnutz and Fox Republican Propaganda viewers are doing so.
Instead of buying and stashing up loads of new ammo, I suggest the gun freaks stock up on those nice dik enlargement pumps to soothe their insecurities.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:53 amPassing Health Care legislation will definitely cause illegal immigrants to buy weapons with which they will demand illegal abortions.
/snarkfest
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:53 amOn the gun ownership thing I agree with you, but on the abortion thing, I disagree…it is being limited by laws of attrition…state by state, and most recently with stupak…
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:54 amYou don’t. But they’re not allowed to purchase a legal firearm.
At gun shows there is little regulation, making it a loophole so big you could drive a lsemi-load of weapons through it.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:54 amSo you’re saying the nutjobs protesting at clinics and killing Dr. Tiller are Dems riling up the base? You ARE an idiot.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:56 amWell, you TP posters sure are getting lots of target practice shooting down the strawmen held up by the wingnuts. Many of these gun nuts are afraid and inept and more likely to shoot themselves by accident. How many times do real criminals take the owners gun and use it against him/her?
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:56 amFVNY — the repubs are going after abortion. dumbass.
did you miss the endless town hall whining about it?
while, on the other hand – no one has said a damn thing about your guns.
as always – the conservative view is to contrast a rational objection with an irrational one..
‘THEY called Bush Hitler! Why can’t we call Obama hitler?’
possibly because Bush was a fascist dictator in illegal wars and killing millions – Obama.. isn’t
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:57 amAt gun shows there is little regulation, making it a loophole so big you could drive a lsemi-load of weapons through it.
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I’m not really familiar with gun shows. If you’re suggesting that people who would otherwise be prohibited from purchasing a firearm are allowed to do so at a gun show, then obviously that should be addressed immediately.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:58 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Republicans seem much more inclined to actually take a person’s guns. Seems like I read reports of people protecting their homes post Katrina being disarmed by Blackwater & local “authorities”. The GOP is the gun confiscation party.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:00 pmRepublicans seem much more inclined to actually take a person’s guns. Seems like I read reports of people protecting their homes post Katrina being disarmed by Blackwater & local “authorities”. The GOP is the gun confiscation party.
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I think that government in general is always wary of an armed citizenry.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:01 pmarronk, painted into a corner again. Shocking
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:01 pmarronk, painted into a corner again. Shocking
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Hello Fred!
I actually do my best work in a corner.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:03 pmDemocrats are much more tolerant than the GOP, even when it comes to guns.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:03 pmOur guns are flooding the border going south. Blood is being spilled for gun sales.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:06 pmGovernment is what protected your ability to own a gun in the first place.
Yes, we have a problem with idiots shooting people. We try to avoid it if possible.. but no one is even considering taking your guns away – not even the farthest on the left. It’s the 2nd amendment for chrissake.. in general the gun lobby is rather redundant..
although your right.. there is a loop hole – you have the right to bear arms – but no one said ANYTHING about bullets! AHA!
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 pmI still like Chris Rock’s idea… the whole concept of making bullets cost $1,000.
Then you’d really think hard before killing someone.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:10 pmI don’t believe NinerFan was “discussing” anything with you. As Fred pointed out this is just your way of backing out of the corner you painted yourself into. Are you going to look for your dunce cap?
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 pmShayne: “So you’re saying the nutjobs protesting at clinics and killing Dr. Tiller are Dems riling up the base? You ARE an idiot.”
No, I’m saying those protesting at clinics ARE the “rubes” who have been fired up. If they go ahead and make abortion illegal, they won’t have THOSE rubes to fire up anymore. Remember, these things always heat way up when Dems are in power.
Shayne, just a suggestion – you shouldn’t be so quick to call people idiots.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:14 pmNinerfan, I was speaking to FVNY not you.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:20 pmNinerFan, see #134.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:23 pmFVNY says:
I think that government in general is always wary of an armed citizenry.
They are, for other CITIZENS sake.
If you are under the impression that in the event of a tyrannical government – your guns would protect you.. you are greatly deluded.
In the days of the constitution’s writing – government and the people were evenly matched..
Now.. guns are only good against burglars.. and your own family. We have nuclear weapons, rocket launchers, stealth bombers, tear gas, etc. etc. –
The government isn’t concerned about your guns for THEIR sake.. it’s for your neighbors sake.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:29 pmFVNY says:
You don’t. But they’re not allowed to purchase a legal firearm. That is a regulation that I agree with.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:48 am
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Socialist.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:30 pmIf you are under the impression that in the event of a tyrannical government – your guns would protect you.. you are greatly deluded.
In the days of the constitution’s writing – government and the people were evenly matched..
Now.. guns are only good against burglars.. and your own family. We have nuclear weapons, rocket launchers, stealth bombers, tear gas, etc. etc. –
The government isn’t concerned about your guns for THEIR sake.. it’s for your neighbors sake.
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I disagree. The government is not going to nuke American cities. And you see how effective guerilla warfare is in this country’s founding as well as the wars the US is currently fighting. There is no way the government would be able to control all the gun owners in the US is there ever was an armed revolution. Plus, how long do you think the army would continue to fight there own people?
‘m not suggesting this is near, or the right thing to do. I’m just saying that it wouldn’t be a cake walk for the government to hold onto power once the people revolt.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:35 pmYou seem to think all the gun owners would be fighting on the same team. Say for example somebody shoots at President Obama because of the incendiary natures of the lies told above or because they listen to Glen Beck, there’s going to be a whole lot of us liberals and assorted brown people ready to get even with you right wingers.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:40 pmYou seem to think all the gun owners would be fighting on the same team. Say for example somebody shoots at President Obama because of the incendiary natures of the lies told above or because they listen to Glen Beck, there’s going to be a whole lot of us liberals and assorted brown people ready to get even with you right wingers.
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Good to know that the left is so willing to kill to support a politician. But I’m referring to the people of different political ideologies rising up together against a tyrannical government. Thats why I said that something like this is not close to happening. The majority of Americans are happy with their lives and government.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:46 pmFVNY, we didn’t rise up to the Bush/Cheney tyranny of stealing two elections and waging unnecessary war while cutting taxes to the wealthy throwing us into massive debt. We wouldn’t fight to support a politician. We’d fight because your side decided to execute the man we overwhelmingly elected to office. And the picture of the rubes above makes it seem that they’re not very happy with the duly elected government we have. While we waited to legally win the election even though we knew we’d been previously robbed of our votes your side doesn’t seem to be as law abiding.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 pmFVNY, you’ve got some nerve talking about the left willing to kill to “support a politician” when your people are the ones threatening to kill President Obama and overthrow the government. Try actually winning an election instead of stealing them.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:54 pmFVNY: “There is no way the government would be able to control all the gun owners in the US is there ever was an armed revolution.”
This is just adolescent posturing. A hundred guys with guns cannot stop a tank. A thousand guys in a militia have no chance against the U.S. Army and if the militia are firing on our military, what do you think is going to happen? How do you even begin to believe our military wouldn’t fire on citizens firing at them? Unbelievable. Our armed forces have fired on unarmed college students for cryin’ out loud. They’ve fired on striking union workers and they’ve massacred women and children in Viet Nam, the middle East, Europe and the sub-continent. Wake up from your dream world and smell reality for a change.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:57 pmI never said it was legal gun owners who were the threat. It is the guns that are stolen and used in crime, available without background checks at gun shows, and domestic violence that is escalated to a serious crime. 81 deaths per day attributed to guns, a lot more than terrorism.
http://contexts.org/graphicsociology/2009/03/11/gun-deaths-measured-daily/
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:00 pmThat big tough guy in the NRA hat holding the sign? Mincemeat. That’s what he’d be if he ever had the balls to pick up arms against our government and our military. He’d be rolled over like some Iraqi insurrectionist in Faluja. The first time he squeezed off a shot at our military, he’d be toast. Look at him. He’s got a gray beard. Is he fast and strong enough to beat a marine detachment backed up by tanks and air power?
You pistol-packin’ cowboys of the open range need to get real here. You have NO chance at armed rebellion. None.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 pmShayne: “Try actually winning an election instead of stealing them.”
Well, that’s the problem, isn’t it? We should all be clear on this by now – American conservatives do not accept the results of elections when they lose.
Anyone old enough to remember how they acted the last time a Dem won the presidency should know this by now. Rush Limbaugh’s first show after Bill Clinton won in 1992 was titled “America Held Hostage, Day One.” Nothing has changed with them. They simply do not believe in our democratic system enough to accept its results when they lose.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:06 pmThis is just adolescent posturing. A hundred guys with guns cannot stop a tank. A thousand guys in a militia have no chance against the U.S. Army and if the militia are firing on our military, what do you think is going to happen? How do you even begin to believe our military wouldn’t fire on citizens firing at them? Unbelievable. Our armed forces have fired on unarmed college students for cryin’ out loud. They’ve fired on striking union workers and they’ve massacred women and children in Viet Nam, the middle East, Europe and the sub-continent. Wake up from your dream world and smell reality for a change.
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A hundred guys with guns? I didn’t realize there were so few gun owners in the US. They must have all been at that rally pictured above.
And do not underestimate the power of guerilla warfare. Its very difficult to control. There is no way the US army could control the entire United States if large numbers of Americans revolted. They would likely try only to control the big cities, which would then become targets for “terrorist” acts.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:07 pmWell, that’s the problem, isn’t it? We should all be clear on this by now – American conservatives do not accept the results of elections when they lose.
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I don’t think anyone is disputing the election results like the Dems did in 2000 and 2004.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:11 pmThat big tough guy in the NRA hat holding the sign? Mincemeat. That’s what he’d be if he ever had the balls to pick up arms against our government and our military. He’d be rolled over like some Iraqi insurrectionist in Faluja. The first time he squeezed off a shot at our military, he’d be toast. Look at him. He’s got a gray beard. Is he fast and strong enough to beat a marine detachment backed up by tanks and air power?
You pistol-packin’ cowboys of the open range need to get real here. You have NO chance at armed rebellion. None.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:13 pm__________________________________________________________
LOL. The left only praises the might of the US Armed Forces when its a discussion about putting down right wing insurrections!
I can just picture it now. The 20% crowd, slipping out in the dead of night, firing up their pickups and gathering out at the deer camp while they plot the guerrilla assaults on what? Just who would they begin their liberty attacks on?
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:15 pmFVNY: “There is no way the US army could control the entire United States if large numbers of Americans revolted. They would likely try only to control the big cities, which would then become targets for “terrorist” acts.”
You’ve seen too many movies and you’re way too gullible. I hope Americans are never even close to something like this, because it would be horrible. And yes, there are more than a hundred guys. There are thousands of tanks as well, right? I hope you realize that we’ve been spending more than the rest of the world combined on our military for decades now.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:17 pmNinerFan Says:
He’s got a gray beard. Is he fast and strong enough to beat a marine detachment backed up by tanks and air power?
Exactly Niner. Snipers. Kevlar body armor. vs. old geezers with beer bellies.. it’s just silly.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:18 pmHoodathunk: “Just who would they begin their liberty attacks on?”
In 1933, bankers and industrialists envisioned a mass march by disgruntled veterans on Washington D.C. They were trying to fire up the rubes then as well. That’s actually the closest we’ve come since the Civil War to armed insurrection. But, as usual, the bankers were just using the veterans as “rubes.” They had no intention of helping the vets – they just wanted to install a fascist-style government similar to what the Nazis had proposed. They thought it would be better for business.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:20 pmFVNY says:
LOL. The left only praises the might of the US Armed Forces when its a discussion about putting down right wing insurrections!
Wrong again. Though the Right can’t accept it.. I’m a fcuking patriot – jackass. Why do you think we concern ourselves with politics? Cause we don’t care?… think about it. I love my country… and I’d love it more were it not full of idiots. I also think we have the best trained military in the world.. although we have the health care and educational system to go along with it! and that can’t be overlooked.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:21 pmWorth repeating for good measure:
Lux: “Snipers. Kevlar body armor. vs. old geezers with beer bellies.. it’s just silly.”
That’s reality, gun loons. Pray you never meet it head on with that gun in your hands because if you do, it’s over.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:22 pmYou’ve seen too many movies and you’re way too gullible. I hope Americans are never even close to something like this, because it would be horrible. And yes, there are more than a hundred guys. There are thousands of tanks as well, right? I hope you realize that we’ve been spending more than the rest of the world combined on our military for decades now.
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I also hope that something like this would never happen but who is the one being gullible? I’d give you a pass if it we were discussing a historical issue. But this is the recent past. Have you watched the Iraq and Afghanistan wars develop. Has the mighty US military been able to “win” those wars? The answer is no. Because unless they’re fighting a country (ie Germany, Japan, Korea), winning a war against a citizenry using guerilla tactics is almost impossible to “win”. Air power and tanks become almost obsolete. You’re fighting an unidentifiable enemy co-mingled with the rest of the population and they’re using snipers and sneak attacks. The US army has never won a war like this (ie Vietnam, Iraq 2, Afghanistan). No country could!
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:24 pmFVNY: “The left only praises the might of the US Armed Forces when its a discussion about putting down right wing insurrections!”
Nonsense. There are far more veterans in the Democratic party than the Republican party. There are far more Democratic lawmakers who are veterans than repubs. Democrats ran the last World War and beat the Japanese and the Nazis. Go to Iraq and Afganistan Veterans of America (IAVA) and check out their grading system for legislators. Dems are much more supportive of the troops than Republicans.
As usual, you’re confusing posturing an rhetoric with real-world actions. Repubs talk a good game, that’s all.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:26 pmNonsense. There are far more veterans in the Democratic party than the Republican party. There are far more Democratic lawmakers who are veterans than repubs. Democrats ran the last World War and beat the Japanese and the Nazis. Go to Iraq and Afganistan Veterans of America (IAVA) and check out their grading system for legislators. Dems are much more supportive of the troops than Republicans.
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The Democrats should support the troops. They were responsible for much of the warfare in the 20th Century.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:28 pmThe delusional gun nuts think that if they rise up and attack to defend their liberty that the rest of America would be right there, standing behind them.
The vast majority of Americans do not want armed insurrection and would stand with the authorities. If these idiots took up arms against their government, they would quickly discover just how few of them there really are.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:29 pmLook at what happened the last time the went to Washington. The buses and trains weren’t convenient enough for them. And the rube troll still seems to think we’d all be fighting on his team. We’d be fighting against FVNY not with him. He doesn’t seem to understand.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:30 pmThe vast majority of Americans do not want armed insurrection and would stand with the authorities. If these idiots took up arms against their government, they would quickly discover just how few of them there really are.
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I agree.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:30 pmFVNY: “You’re fighting an unidentifiable enemy co-mingled with the rest of the population and they’re using snipers and sneak attacks. The US army has never won a war like this (ie Vietnam, Iraq 2, Afghanistan). No country could!”
Your “analysis” only works if the majority of the indigenous population supports the insurgents for one reason or another. The guerrilla warriors of those countries were fighting an alien force on their own soil with their backs against the wall. In your scenario, Americans would be supposedly blowing up American soldiers – why do you think Americans would ever do that? The better analogies would be the Soviets or the Nazis putting down internal insurrections like the Warsaw Ghetto or Prague in the late 60’s.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:31 pmWe’d be fighting against FVNY not with him. He doesn’t seem to understand.
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I’m not fighting anyone.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:31 pmAnd the troops SHOULD support our government and the duly elected CIC, You’re the one talking about a revolution for no good reason.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:33 pmThe better analogies would be the Soviets or the Nazis putting down internal insurrections like the Warsaw Ghetto or Prague in the late 60’s.
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Unarmed populations. Therein lies the difference!
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:34 pmFVNY: “The Democrats should support the troops. They were responsible for much of the warfare in the 20th Century.”
Really? In WWII, we were attacked an two giant industrial powers formally declared war on our country. You blame Democrats for that? Democrats prosecuted that war. They didn’t start it.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:35 pmOf course not, you expect others to fight for you.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:35 pmOf course not, you expect others to fight for you.
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I’m not advocating violence at all.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:37 pmFVNY: “Unarmed populations. Therein lies the difference!”
You need to do some more reading. The people in the Warsaw ghetto were armed. They just couldn’t stand against the Nazi war machine.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:37 pmThe difference is the people have not legitimate reason to rebel. Nobody is doing anything to them.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:38 pmI got enough to stop a one or two man home invasion, but a squad of Blackwater goons with assault weapons, tear gas, armor, etc….I’m dead meat.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:39 pmFVNY says:
I’m not fighting anyone.
Well.. fair deal – but the wingnuts are gearing up for something… they talk about secession, they bought bullets til they’re on back order…they’re carrying guns to town halls, they’re quoting prayers based on obama’s death, maybe you aren’t fighting anyone — but that don’t mean they aren’t -
I definitely hope it never comes to something insane as that.. because the point is — it would be ugly. And having a shot gun in the closet isn’t going to cut it.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:39 pmReally? In WWII, we were attacked an two giant industrial powers formally declared war on our country. You blame Democrats for that? Democrats prosecuted that war. They didn’t start it.
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I understand that Germany declared war against the US but it was no threat to the US by the time US armed forces entered the European theater. Why would FDR not stay focused on winning the war with Japan? Why open up a second front and attack a country that hadn’t attack us?
I could have sworn that I recently heard several Dems make that same argument about another war!
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:41 pmI don’t think anyone is disputing the election results like the Dems did in 2000 and 2004.
First, there were irregularities in both those elections that are still not resolved properly.
Second, no one is disputing the 2008 elections. What is happening is that there are nut bars out there that don’t want to accept the results of 2008. HUGE DIFFERENCE.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:41 pmYou need to do some more reading. The people in the Warsaw ghetto were armed. They just couldn’t stand against the Nazi war machine.
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Actually, you are the one who is misinformed. The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto were poorly armed. The Nazis had a policy of denying the people under their control access to firearms. Most totalitarian states do just that and thats why many Americans are very cautious about protecting the 2nd amendment.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:46 pmFVNY says:
How does regulation of legal gun owners lead to less illegal guns?
The same way that automobile laws lead to proper use of cars. The laws regulate who can own and drive a car and under what conditions, e.g., insurance. It does not eliminate all of the wrong uses of an auto, but it does reduce fatalities and injuries. People who are convicted of DUI, minors, no insurance can still drive cars in violation of the law, but we have criminal penalties to insure that these problems are kept under control. Gun laws work the same way. Someone who is using their gun for legal purposes is not going to be stopped from owning or using. The laws restrict who can own and what they can own. There are parts if the gun laws, but their ultimate goal is to keep illegal guns under control. We do not have the problems under control because we are unable to pass a comprehensive set of laws because the NRA.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:48 pmOK, that’s just taking conservative revisionism to new heights. The Nazis declared war on us but they were “no threat to the U.S.”??!!
Discussion is over. You’re crazy.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:00 pmFVNY says:
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:16 pmI see you are trying for a commanders spot on the wrong side party. And it seems like you could win one as your leadership in this argument is pretty poor.
Going into Germany was to help relive the pressure on the Brits and the soviets. shaking my head.
and why do you push for a war here in our country? Are you that far gone on the lies and BS from the white wing wrong side party.
@198
We have Federal laws that make it illegal for felons etc from purchasing/possessing firearms but much like a repeat dui offender, laws and regulations are not going to prevent him/her from obtaining a gun and using it to commit more crime. what further legislation do you propose to eliminate such behavior?
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:17 pmWhat’s up with that sign? I’ve never been helped by any gun-carrying person, so I really don’t know how that guy has come to the conclusion armed citizens are the “backbone” of the US. Last I heard, our “militias” have done nothing but try to scare brown people. If anything, these folks are the ones the rest of us should be worried about, since they’re the ones who keep talking about overthrowing the government.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:24 pmEyes like an eagle.
Farts like a beagle.
The brains of a bagel.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:35 pmStagoculus says:
… what further legislation do you propose to eliminate such behavior?
I have already identified the problems with gun laws. I think that gun dealers should be registered with the federal government and under their control rather than state controls unless they are stricter. The laws on the federal, state and local levels should be harmonized so that each layer of control establishes minimum standards for the whole country. There are many states that have lax gun laws. A gun law may seem burdensome to people in a rural state, but they serve a purpose. Gun dealers should not be able to hide sales at gun shows. There needs to be a certain amount of regulation even for those dealers that only sell in stores. Federal licensing of stores would do better than state or local laws because the license to sell is contingent upon compliance with regulations. Minimum state and local regulations can be mandated to insure that people who sell guns cannot avoid the laws by going to a state or city that has the least regulations. These will not totally eliminate the problem but will go a long way to better enforcement of laws regulating gun sales.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:52 pmDoesn’t the BATF already regulate licensing of dealers in three different classes? are they not class I, II, & III firearms dealer license?? Is the BATF a federal agency?? Gun dealers also have to follow the law regardless if they sell from their shop front or at a gun show. the problem with gun shows isn’t dealer sales it is private sales.
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:29 pmThe licensing by BATF and requirements are minimal. You are incorrect about gun shows. There are a lot of sales guns that are being sold through the shows that are not being reported and there are problems with the laws both in the federal and state level. I am not advocating more laws to take away guns, just more control and tracking over the ones that are sold.
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:37 pmIf a dealer sells a gun at a gun show without performing a federal background check then he is breaking the law and should be punished severely for it(Lose his/her license forever), but he IS required to perform those background checks and that is a federal law not a state law. However private individuals such as you and I can rent a space at a gun show and sell whatever guns we want without a background check and that is the “loophole”. These laws are uniform for all States since they are federal. and every sale of every new or used gun by a dealer is tracked and heavy penalties are imposed for breaking those rules.
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:57 pmIf you don’t think government would try and take our guns just look at what happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco.
November 23rd, 2009 at 5:22 pmCancervative dipshite: You cite two bogus examples that have nothing to do with the subject.
November 23rd, 2009 at 6:05 pmI have PTSD and a gun…
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:17 pmI dare any fool to take my gun!
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:20 pmOSTL says:
I dare any fool to take my guns!
__________
Which one are you referring to… squirt or pop?
And if by some twisted turn of fate, you actually got ahold of a real gun… why would we want to take it away from you?
You’re much more likely to hurt yourself than anyone else… ;-)
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:50 pmI am proud to say that I have never had a negligent discharge and I never will.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:45 amAs civilization moved West, the guns were not allowed in town, nor were they allowed in saloons. So, it is understandable that people who would dehumanize the health care debate would think their guns were more important than the 44,000 people who die each year for lack of health care access. Guns denote a desire to return to the WILD, but these scared little people would never make it in a real jungle.
November 24th, 2009 at 2:04 amYour analysis is fascinating. Can you explain how you have derived it, and demonstrate that it is universally applicable amongst all owners of firearms?
November 24th, 2009 at 1:32 pmHey Dimensio, most of the gun owners I see are big fat guys who couldn’t survive a couple days in a real jungle whether or not they were armed. Most of the militia guys I see are too stupid, slow and fat to fight any kind of a real war. They’re just pretending and playing with their toys.
November 24th, 2009 at 2:42 pmMy question is : Why are stupid people allowed to own guns?Shouldn’t there be some IQ test as part of the licensing process?i.e. if your IQ is below 70 (eaither mentally incompetent or mentally retarded), you should automatically be disqualified from owning a gun…I’m still coming up with the test though, so please give me some ideas if you can!
November 30th, 2009 at 9:02 am