SuperFreak Dubner Embraces ‘Climategate’ Swiftboating: ‘Everybody’s Scared To Be A Skeptic’
SuperFreak Dubner Embraces ‘Climategate’ Swiftboating: ‘Everybody’s Scared To Be A Skeptic’
Thousands of emails from the webserver of the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit (CRU) — a top climate research center in the United Kingdom — “were hacked recently” and dumped on a Russian web server. Global warming deniers are sifting through the illegally obtained letters of private correspondence for “proof” that the scientific consensus on climate change is actually a global conspiracy to suppress “skeptics.”
This week, Stephen J. Dubner, co-author of SuperFreakonomics, embraced the fevered “Climategate” ravings of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK), and other global warming deniers in an interview with Fox Business Network host David Asman. Dubner purports that the hacked University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit (CRU) emails reveal that the supposed consensus on global warming is because “everybody’s scared to be an outlier, everybody’s scared to be a skeptic.” After Asman compared climate scientists to Joseph Stalin and Adolph Hitler — Dubner did his own Glenn Beck impression, accusing “potent” scientists of “colluding” to “tell Al Gore what to say,” and “distorting evidence” to “make their findings be right for their position”:
You can’t read these e-mails and feel that the IPCC’s or the major climate scientists’ findings and predictions about global warming are kosher. You can’t. They may be, but if you read these you have to have a whole lot of skepticism about that. And of course, coming into Copenhagen these are going to have a big effect how the world looks at you. They’re going to say, “Wait a minute. You say these climate scientists have been telling us we have to stop burning fossil fuel tomorrow?”
Watch it:
The Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Washington Post, National Public Radio, Washington Times, and other news outlets are participating in this Swiftboat-style smear campaign, following the lead of actual Swiftboat smearer and former Limbaugh and Inhofe employee Marc Morano — instead of bothering to understand what the scientists were actually talking about in the hacked emails.
However, as climate scientist Richard Somerville explained yesterday, “The ice has no agenda.” Arctic sea ice is at historically low levels, Australia is on fire, the northern United Kingdom is underwater, the world’s glaciers are disappearing, and half of the United States has been declared an agricultural disaster area. And it’s the the hottest decade in recorded history.
By asking whether “we have to stop burning fossil fuel tomorrow,” Dubner — a top blogger for the New York Times — gets to the heart of why this bizarre theory of a cabal of all-powerful climatologists is getting support from conservative media and politicians. The incontrovertible science — based not on manipulated data but on decades of basic research — is that the burning of fossil fuels is drastically reshaping our planet’s climate and acidifying the oceans. And the only known way to restore conditions to those safe for human civilization is to dramatically reduce the use of fossil fuels. Doing so, however, would affect the incredible profits and power of the oil and coal industries, and of their ideological allies.
In fact, if we stop treating our atmosphere like a sewer, the climate system will heal itself over time, potentially more rapidly than we expect. That our past inaction will continue to bear consequences into the future is a reason to act with greater swiftness, not to dither further. The longer we delay, the more difficult and expensive the challenge to reduce pollution while adapting to a hostile world becomes.
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These guys are willing to SACRIFICE our planet for money. The health of the Earth is in serious trouble. And all these guys care about is profit. Well, what is money when you have no water? What good is wealth when you have no clean air? What is finacial security when our planet is unlivable?
November 25th, 2009 at 5:14 pmWhen Sarah Palin’s email account was hacked, there was outrage. The FBI and Secret Service began investigating the incident and a federal grand jury returned an indictment charging violations of 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(C) and § 2701, or unlawful access to stored communications and intentionally accessing a computer without authorization across state lines, respectively.
Where’s the outrage here and now?
November 25th, 2009 at 5:17 pmYou can’t read these e-mails and feel that the IPCC’s or the major climate scientists’ findings and predictions about global warming are kosher. You can’t. They may be, but(…)
Well, there you go. They “may be” true, but the only thing that really matters is how you “feel”.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:18 pmChuck and Chyron, you both me to the point(s). And do you notice that the neoCons love this guy now, but when the first SF came out with claims, for example, that abortion resulted in a lowering of the crime rate, Beckbaugh O’Hannity couldn’t say enough what a fraud these guys were.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:25 pmDoes anyone know where Glenn Beck lives? I want to send him and his family a Christmas card.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:29 pmYou cannot, but yes you may??? Really?? Are you smarter than a first grader??
November 25th, 2009 at 5:31 pmI doubt that the PLANET is in peril. It has survived ice ages,comet strikes, massive climate change.
No , the Planet will be just fine…it is we humans who are in peril.
If we get to be too much…the planet will simply get rid of us.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:32 pmHowever, as climate scientist Richard Somerville explained yesterday, “The ice has no agenda.” Arctic sea ice is at historically low levels, Australia is on fire, the northern United Kingdom is underwater, the world’s glaciers are disappearing, and half of the United States has been declared an agricultural disaster area. And it’s the the hottest decade in recorded history.
Teabagger: “Well, dayum, we cain’t be having us no global warming — it’s SNOWIN’ today!!”
November 25th, 2009 at 5:33 pmIt’s extremely doubtful that any of the people claiming that the theft of these documents has “proven” that GW is a fraud have even read them — there are thousands — or that they’re capable of even understanding what they are reading. RealClimate has responded here, and this are some relevant paragraphs (being scientists, they tend to be more than a little verbose, but feel free to read the whole thing):
We’ve already seen at least one of our trolls, and I’ve seen others elsewhere, making feverish claims about the “overwhelming blow” struck by deniers with this theft and selective quotation.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:35 pmIt would be nice if Man made global warming didn’t exist.
Hwever even if it doesn’t exit air quality like that in LA and Tokyo is not a good thing.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:36 pmRich, How do you EXPLAIN the Artic ice melting? The deaths of hundreds of species? The violent weather patterns? Calling us Nazis isn’t an argument. It’s a cop-out.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:43 pmRichard,
Really? REALLY? WOW! Chugot some powerful deductive reasoning there pal. NOT!
Pathetic Idiot
November 25th, 2009 at 5:45 pmRichard Stallman says: The goal is socialism.
I doubt that; but, it might be worth a try seeing how well capitalism has worked out for all but the bankers.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:48 pmThis one should draw all the stupid trolls out of the woodwork. The sad fact is that none of them will be able to provide one bit of scientific evidence that contradicts the theory nor will they provide any evidence that anyone plotted to do anything.
It will just be recycled talking points that have been debunked in every venue, innumerable times. Alas, it’s pointless to argue with those who don’t reach their conclusions logically in the first place.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:49 pmAnd the strong deal we are getting out of Copenhagen PROVES that the UN is an unstoppable force hell bent on global take over, Richard!!!
Wait, there is no real deal… squabbling and postponement?!?!
Huh, I thought the NWO would take care of that…
November 25th, 2009 at 5:49 pmWhen you feed the trolls, they multiply like rabbits.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:52 pmRichie is retarded. Seriously.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:54 pmEven IF the Fear of Fossil Fuel Induced Climate Change turns out to be Unwarranted (which I don’t think is the case)…we would be wise to act as if it is.
Why? From Tom Friedman:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/opinion/27friedman.html?_r=1
…China’s leaders have decided to go green — out of necessity because too many of their people can’t breathe, can’t swim, can’t fish, can’t farm and can’t drink thanks to pollution from its coal- and oil-based manufacturing growth engine. And, therefore, unless China powers its development with cleaner energy systems, and more knowledge-intensive businesses without smokestacks, China will die of its own development.
China’s leaders, mostly engineers, wasted little time debating global warming. They know the Tibetan glaciers that feed their major rivers are melting. But they also know that even IF climate change were a HOAX, the demand for clean, renewable power is going to soar…
E.T. — or energy technology — will be as big as I.T., and China intends to be a big E.T. player.
And when China decides it has to go green out of necessity, watch out. You will not just be buying your toys from China. You will buy your next electric car, solar panels, batteries and energy-efficiency software from China.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:55 pmI was considering going to the UN Climate Change Conference does anybody know what day the comedian(Senator Inhofe) will performing?
November 25th, 2009 at 5:57 pmRichard Stallman doesn’t have anything to discredit the science behind climate change, so he comes here and makes it strictly a political issue, something that it is not.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:57 pmRicky, please pull your head out of your ass and come join the reality based universe.
delafield says:
When you feed the trolls, they multiply like rabbits.
True, however, they’ve been champing at the bit for this thread so I expect a major infestation even if they have to talk to themselves. A great seething boil of bullshit is going explode no matter what any sane person says, whether it’s to or about the stupid trolls.
I’ll try to refrain from anything but debunking blatant lies for the benefit of the sane folks who happen by.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:58 pmGiven the growing hysteria of the stupid trolls, and the irresistible lure of this topic, I bet we could end up burning quite a few sockpuppets. I expect to see a complete loss of self-control.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:01 pmUnless your income/wealth comes from making money from money (capital) you are not a capitalist. I work for my income, so I am not a capitalist: I just get exploited by capitalists.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:02 pm#14 Dear Richard,
November 25th, 2009 at 6:05 pmDid you know that in the Republic of China, there is not one Republican to be found? Why is that? I thought all Republics were Republican, like America. Weird, isn’t it?
Gummitch @ 9: The troll showed up in the very next post. And are we supposed to even seriously consider the viewpoint of someone who thinks one can be facist and socialist. RS, you are truly a retard – any better rejoinder would be wasted on the likes of you…
November 25th, 2009 at 6:07 pm#14 Dear Rich,
November 25th, 2009 at 6:09 pmIf I may be so familiur to call you Rich, as is with everything you have said to date, is…
… Just remember your global socialism when you cash your Social Security Checks and use your Medicare. K?
I wouldnt expect data from a hacked server to be legitimate and before people go jumping the gun stop and think about the email [SMTP] protocol IE spoofing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The goal is socialism. European leaders have come out and even said it.
I call BS, the yurps [Blair] went happily to war with Bush/Cheney. I guess they are also ’socialists’ as well.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:09 pmStallman, Why are repugs and wingnuts like you against doing whats good for the world and the people who live in it?
November 25th, 2009 at 6:10 pmIts not to difficult to get information on global warming.
You believe corporations who make billions of dollars, over what scientists say about how man has a negative effect on the climate. Then you have the uneducated, beck,limpass,and hannity telling you that its a hoax. Corporations and dooshbags on AM radio dont give a crap about you or our planet. They live for the dollar, and thats it.
Richard Stallman says: I doubt that; but, it might be worth a try seeing how well capitalism has worked out for all but the bankers.
So the poor folks are banker socialists….
Yeh, you need to settle down and use some logic here I think RS
November 25th, 2009 at 6:13 pmWe have to get in front of climate control. A conservative is out front on nothing, ever.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:15 pmBTW – Baehner is serving siht sandwiches and garlic milkshakes at the 18th hole this afternoon. It’s a tradition.
Fore!
November 25th, 2009 at 6:19 pmI just love how the teabaggers suddenly consider this obscure university on par with MIT, Cal, Stanford, Harvard, University of Texas, etc…
November 25th, 2009 at 6:25 pmRichard Stallman says:
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Bible thumpers and socialist, econazis are very similar in their cult-like devotion to their respective religions.
You should know all about cult-like devotion. The personality cult of Bush is still alive and well, no matter how much you teabaggers claim you hated him…
November 25th, 2009 at 6:27 pmNobody understands why the teabagger hates himself and his fellow man. There’s no logical explanation why a rational person would want to be a slave of the corporation – the ultimate outcome of these tea bag parties.
There, fixed it for you…
November 25th, 2009 at 6:27 pmWhat’s a “leftist” and how do they apply to a discussion about science?
November 25th, 2009 at 6:30 pmO/T, I was just at MMFA can you believe that redstate is comparing healthcare reform to the attack on pearl harbor.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:32 pmI am so fcking tired of the repugs and wingnuts making crap up. Seriously, what is wrong with these people? Another thing that pisses me off is beck,limpass,hannity,and billdo.
These talkingheads are dangerous,I dont think its a question of if, its a question of when. These traitors incite violence and unfortunatly one of their extremist followers will act out someday. When that happens they should be held accountable. Glenn beck, FCK YOU!!!!
Richard Stallman:
November 25th, 2009 at 6:32 pmDo if have any real science based FACTS that disproves climate change, put up or STFU!
I did not realize that this university had a top climate research facility, but still, emails are a way for scientists to critique ideas and to make viewpoints they might not in a more professional setting. Yes, there are skeptics out there over there at that facility, but the right-wing would only love to focus on the skeptics as if that represented the whole opinion of the climate change crowd.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:34 pmCorrection @ 43
Do you have any real science based….
PIMF
November 25th, 2009 at 6:36 pmOh yes, we are trying to silence you Richard…we are the ones who are domestic wiretapping your asses. Get your head out of your ass…
and get your talking points straightened out…we’re Nazis, socialists, fascists, communists, terrorists all in one? It’s like a big orgy of ideologies or something all rolled into one convenient label: the left…I bet you cannot even define them…
and no, you can’t define Nazi as liberal either although that’s what Rush taught you…
November 25th, 2009 at 6:38 pmRichard Stallman says:
The nazi left will be held accountable for their treason and infringement on American’s civil liberties.
You’re referring to the civil liberty or liberties that may be left after Bush/Cheney left office, right?
And, nazi left? Isn’t that a contradiction of terms?
November 25th, 2009 at 6:39 pmRichard Stallman:
Will you please grow up and stop with the pathetic name calling.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:40 pmEveryone with an IQ above room temperature knows that the Nazis and Hitler were extreme far right. Quit projecting, it reflects badly on you and the rest of the conservatives.
and suddenly you are concerned about civil liberties, Richard? The right has seen civil liberties as something to be thrown away until a Democratic president comes to the White House. Suddenly they become defenders of our civil liberties much as they become defenders of Medicare? I realize that this spin works on mindless bots but c’mon, have more respect for yourself and find out what they’re really saying…
November 25th, 2009 at 6:40 pmBible thumpers and socialist, econazis are very similar in their cult-like devotion to their respective religions. -RS
This one has a large chewed point charcoaled tipped limb with to draw stick peeples with.
Im sorry Richard, but I have a real problem with people deciding what I am and am not.
Could you, please, discuss first?
November 25th, 2009 at 6:41 pmRichard Stallman says:
OK dik, enough nonsense…
Look up “paranoid delusion” then get back to us after you are better.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:41 pmLet’s go easy on Richard, he’ll have to wait until tomorrow’s Rush Limbaugh show to find another insult for us “leftists…”
November 25th, 2009 at 6:42 pmRichard Stallman says:The nazi left will be held accountable for their treason and infringement on American’s civil liberties.
A: If Hitler was a nazi and a socialist he would have backed unions. He didnt. He jailed them and forced them into labor camps.
B: Hitler, then, as above, hated civil liberties
November 25th, 2009 at 6:44 pmRichard Stallman says:
this guy has to be a POX Theatre player.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:46 pmSigh…
No infestation of stupid trolls, full of vim and vigor? Just one lame sockpuppet who could make his life easier if he just posted, “I’m self-loathing and xenophobic”, every few minutes.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:47 pmI think dik wants to institutionalize bigotry. it’s behind pretty much everything he says here.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:47 pmOMG, the belief that we should learn about multiculturalism is some Commie evil leftie plot to kidnap our children and eat their brains until they become mindless zombies…Of course you noted that this is an OPINION piece, right? right? You know the difference between an article based on FACTS and an OPINION piece by some hack right-winger playing on your fears that minorities are taking over the U.S.
Richard you’re too much…
November 25th, 2009 at 6:48 pmUSCkitty, Tomorrows thanksgiving, I would think limpass would have the day off. I dont see him passing up a day when he can eat all day.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:50 pmRichard Stallman, please try to stay on topic, this thread is about climate change and the far right’s irrational attacks on science.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:50 pm59 USCKitty says:
Richard believe in bigotry. It’s his way.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:51 pmThe evilness of leftists knows no bounds. -=RS=-
Well, RS, I am not a leftist, but a moderate. And who are you to relate anyone to past history to suit YOUR ideology?
Seems to me your pulling a ministry attack and demonizing others you dont agree with.
Secondly, I think you should not conflate the actions of the unelected and the elected
November 25th, 2009 at 6:51 pmPoor Richard, unto thee the greatest injustice has fallen…for you a white man have seen minorities participate in our civic process, become president of the United States, occupy the White House…the white man feels like his power is slipping and Rush Limbaugh has confirmed that belief for you. To add insult to injury, education schools are stressing multiculturalism and how we can be sensitive to the cultural backgrounds of our students so we don’t fall back on stereotypes and our own prejudices…Oh heaven have mercy on us!
Yes, your suffering is greater than slavery, lynchings, denying women and others the right to vote, child labor, thuggish tactics against unions, etc…but I thank thee, because you are the light on which to shine upon the darkness of the evil left-wing agenda to eat our children’s brains…
November 25th, 2009 at 6:52 pmSince we’ve talked about leftism and re-education camps, it looks like the Pol-pot like leftists at the University of Minnesota’s education department are starting their re-education camps. -=RS=-
Michelle Bachmann [MI] is a rightist.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:52 pmSince we’ve talked about leftism and re-education camps, it looks like the Pol-pot like leftists at the University of Minnesota’s education department are starting their re-education camps.
Okay, lets talk about Rev Sun Yung Moon and the 40 million a year he gives to the rightist Washington Times.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:55 pmsscncturn64 says:
USCkitty, Tomorrows thanksgiving, I would think limpass would have the day off. I dont see him passing up a day when he can eat all day.
Well he’s probably listening to the archives then…Poor Richard, I feel for him…Someone so scared by the darkness of multiculturalism and the hordes of brown people like myself who are only out to get him. I didn’t know he was shaking like a leaf.
Richard, honey. I won’t hurt you. I too believe in multiculturalism and avoiding stereotype threat in our schools so everyone can show that they can learn. I did not know that I was some evil fanatic out to take over minds…
November 25th, 2009 at 6:55 pmStupid troll,
While I hate to address such an off topic comment, I fear I must as a, sometimes, proud Minnesotan. The Minneapolis Star/Tribune has a long history of publishing wackos of all stripes on the op/ed page. That’s one of the places Crazy Shelly (InsaneR-Mn.) got her start. They have very low standards.
Even by those low standards Katherine Kersten is universally recognized by regular readers, aside from drooling morons, as insane. She makes things up that don’t even follow an internal logic. She’s paranoid and delusional on many levels without even considering her political/religious/nativist calling.
She’s not just irrelevant to this subject, she’s irrelevant to any subject more complex than working a light switch. And I’m pretty sure that she’s convinced that light-switches work by the grace of God.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:58 pmBeing in a Thanksgiving mood, I will give thanks to Richard Stallman, not for helping me see the self-hatred within me; but, by appreciating his fine wit as demonstrated by the handle he chose for himself: Richard Stallman.
I. E. Dick-the-stall-man, better known as Sen. Larry Craig (who is not gay and loves his wife.) Thanks for slumming with us this afternoon. It’s been real.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:06 pmI wonder if Richard Stallman will threaten to kill anyone today.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:10 pmHomeschooled dipsh#ts like Stallman don’t even understand evolution. They keep their kids away from school so they DON’T learn the truth. Of course these morons wouldn’t understand the science behind global climate change. And Stallman is one of those pansies who is inciting a civil war and then will sit on his fat a$$ allowing others to die for his stupidity.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:19 pmAs they keep denying, while huge chunks of the Antarctic float past New Zealand. What idiots.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:38 pmI hope that the drive-thru is busy and our pets are not otherwise incapacitated. I’m curious to see where this retro-sockpuppet thing is going. Is it just a coincidence that our old pets, Tundra and Stallman, reappeared simultaneously?
My own hypothesis is that certain pairs of sockpuppets appear, dependent on who is hosting the “sleepover”.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:39 pmbuhbye RS.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:41 pm卐 Richard Stallman 卐
Rich sure does love him some dictators don’t he.
Good thing he’s not smart enough to pass a drivers test.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:58 pmIt appears that the syphilis that Stallman caught from Eric Odom is now tertiary and the unfortunate lad is now completely deranged.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:09 pmIt’s a pity the poor boy didn’t have health insurance, because the disease could have been easily treated with antibiotics if it was caught in its earliest stage.
I’m laughing, anyone else? Comon, that’s funny shit.
stallman’s lost his marbles.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:10 pmat 55 the deranged stallman is upset with anyone who fights bigotry and compares them to terrible people.
Yes, we fight bigotry. No, we won’t kill ya for it…..
It’s the same kind of things we teach our children.
Like:
Don’t steal
November 25th, 2009 at 8:16 pmDon’t lie
don’t be a bigot
etc.
I’m truly disappointed by our stupid trolls. Last night they were begging for this very thread and, now that it’s here, they pull a cowardly no-show. Perhaps they are warmly tucked away on Grammy’s couch, dreaming of eating till they puke?
November 25th, 2009 at 8:35 pmI am not surprised that the trolls pussied out, they really are out of their league when it comes to threads about science.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:01 pmYou have to remember that Eric Odom doesn’t hire trolls based on the quality of their output, Eric is only interested in whether or not they PUT OUT IN THE SACK.
Richard, you take the cake in delusion. Hitler was admired by some in the American right BEFORE the war. Political figures on the right welcomed his rise to power whether they were in Europe or in America because they thought he would be a counter to Stalin. They saw him as the savior to capitalism, even though they criticized his totalitarian ways, to be fair. It was only after the horrors of the Holocaust came out that the right is trying to reframe him as a “leftist.” To be fair to the conservatives, once Germany declared war on the U.S. they got in line, but there were some on the right who expressed admiration for how he brought up Germany as a power to be reckoned with.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:40 pmTO THE RESCUE!!! … guess who:
Congress may probe leaked global warming e-mails
by Declan McCullagh
A few days after leaked e-mail messages appeared on the Internet, the U.S. Congress may probe whether prominent scientists who are advocates of global warming theories may have misrepresented the truth about climate change.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:42 pmSen. James Inhofe, an Oklahoma Republican, said on Monday the leaked correspondence suggested researchers “cooked the science to make this thing look as if the science was settled, when all the time of course we knew it was not,” according to a transcript of a radio interview posted on his Web site. Aides for Rep. Darrell Issa, a California Republican, are also looking into the disclosure.
[...]
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10404533-38.html
Richard the troll Spellamns says:
Obviously your home schooling was very weak when it came to science and you have no understanding of the SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
November 25th, 2009 at 10:53 pmI am a conservative and a lurker here. Global warming or not we cannot treat the earth like a rental car (to quote Bill Maher). While I respect peoples right to be skeptical, I get pretty PO’d when I hear the talking heads making snarky wise cracks about driving big trucks for no reason or burning otters to heat their homes, etc. Regardless of ones political leanings it behooves us to treat our planet with respect and to teach our children to do so as well. Funny thing is that people I work with who know I grow food, have geothermal heat, and drive a car that runs on used grease have mistakenly assumed that I am one of “those people” – a lib. It’s sad to me that liberals seem to have some kind of monopoly on these sorts of things.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:12 pmanalog kid — One of the grossest ironies of this situation is that most climate scientists — overwhelmingly white and male, with colleagues and friends who work for the petroleum extraction industry, often funded by the military — are politically conservative.
But the right wing seems dedicated to embracing a virulent strain of know-nothing populism and McCarthyite suspicion, which leaves out scientists, no matter their politics.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:31 pmvia C&L:
The Washington Independent–Is ‘Climategate’ Really the Game-Changer Skeptics Say It Is?:
On Friday, the news broke that hackers had obtained and released thousands of email exchanges between climate scientists at England’s University of East Anglia. Climate change skeptics pounced on the leak, dubbing it “Climategate” and proclaiming that the questionable communications between the scientists proved that global warming was based on cooked data.
So what exactly in these emails is causing such celebration among the deniers? The Daily Telegraph compiled “the most contentious quotes,” and while they’re certainly embarrassing for their authors, they don’t come close to undermining the very basis of climate science.
…
another concocted exaggerated discombobulated distraction…
… trying very hard to throw off the healing progress…
i will never understand the denial of the need to take care of our world…
November 26th, 2009 at 12:07 amcomes down again to the greed…
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
And a happy Thanksgiving to you, Beethoven Rules.
Would you be so kind as to point to the emails that contain data that contradicts the current consensus? I can’t seem to find them in the excerpts that have been published.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:31 amWhat’s ironic, Beethoven, is that you can say the same thing about you conservatives and your myths about trickle-down theory. Follow the junk economics like good little sheep wingnuts. The only sheep around here are you Rushbots who educate us on what Rush and his ilk are saying. Who needs to listen to Rush limbaugh when you trolls repeat everything verbatim…
oH and have a happy Thanksgiving…
November 26th, 2009 at 12:34 amUSCKitty,
It appears that the stupid trolls are not disposed to answer. Have you seen emails they claim are so damaging?
I saw one that, from 2000, wondering how to explain the drop in ‘99 from ‘98 but; now we know that a very strong el Nino came to an end.
Then there’s the one that used a “trick” to rationalize data. But that “trick” was to throw out some data that has been shown, before and since, to be faulty and/or ambiguous.
Besides those two and a few that consist of scientists making light of cranks, I don’t really know what they are blabbing about. Does anyone know?
November 26th, 2009 at 12:45 am“CONSERVATIVES are nice people; it’s just that NOTHING they believe is true.”
There; fixed it for ya. Don’t choke on the wishbone tomorrow.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:45 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The intentionally evil leftists tend to be in academia and government. They really hate individualism, economic freedom, and consider most people incapable of running their own lives.
Is that why corporatists like Dick Armey put out talking points and make all those fancy signs for the Teabaggers to wave around like idiots? Is that why conservatives are the ones who want to regulate who we sleep with and what we do in the privacy in our own bedrooms? Is that why conservatives feel like they have to legislate morality according to standards they don’t even follow?
The only evil around here is being used against people like you Richard. People whose economic interests run counter to people on Wall Street who run our government regardless of party. You have been brainwashed by Wall Street and the corporations into doing their bidding when we could all join in, liberal and conservative to take on the Big Banks and big corporations that steal your jobs by outsourcing them. But of course not. You have been deluded into thinking that it’s the fault of brown people that your job is gone, that the big, bad liberals want to tax you to death, and that multiculturalism is evil. It is evil to those who want to use racism to divide us so we do not rise up against the economic elites. Read your history. I’ll help you out. Google Herrenvolk Democracy, Tom Watson and educate yourself.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:55 amSo Kenneth, why is it that conservatives feel like they have to legislate morality, to legislate what we do in the privacy of our bedrooms and our own personal lives if it is the liberals who hate the fact that people can live their own private lives? When did you see a liberal say that we have to ban gay marriage because two guys getting together is an abomination?
November 26th, 2009 at 12:58 amGlad to hear we can all be skeptics about global warming and just suck up to the oil and coal boys. Life is so much easier when they’re running the show; grease, yanno. (catalytically fractionated snark)
In the meantime, I don’t rightly give a rat’s arse about global warming; I’m still trying to figure out what the 3 degree rise in mean annual temperature over the last two centuries (almost) means for the contiguous 48 states. That’s straight out of Weather Service historical data – no fracking models, thank you, but hey, it’s just local (North American, kinda) phenomena, yanno…
November 26th, 2009 at 12:58 amOh, and Happy Thanksgiving to all, including our witless climate change deniers.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:01 amRichard Stallman says:
It’s these fascist leftists that have to be dealt with….any way it takes. They’re out to destroy our country anyway they can.
I see now why Glenn Beck urged his viewers to refrain from violence, not because he was concerned about a “fascist leftist” (whatever the hell that means) getting hurt, but the movement might look bad…
November 26th, 2009 at 1:06 amC’mon people. I’ve been following this subject for nearly 30 years. And I’ve been reading about “climategate” for nearly a week. Here’s my question:
Which of these emails contains the data which shows the consensus is wrong?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:13 amPete, the mentality of these trolls is so remarkably galling I don’t know what to say. Show them proof and they will turn around and tell you that it’s liberal bias.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:17 amwho knows if those emails were edited as well? Isn’t there some way where one could even edit them?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:18 amUSCKitty,
Anything can be edited. The chain of evidence has certainly been broken. But, from what I’ve seen, there’s nothing there whether it’s genuine or not. Alas, our poor stupid trolls can’t grasp much of anything past a light switch.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:25 amMaybe that’s why they betrayed their so-called Communist ideals and ruled as totalitarian dictators with their form of aristocracy…
November 26th, 2009 at 1:48 amOh yeah, Richard, there are death camps being prepared for you wingnuts…
November 26th, 2009 at 1:49 amRather than to say that there are extreme versions on either fringe, left or right who have turned into authoritarian totalitarian dictators who massacred millions, the right has to manufacture a myth that dolts like our trolls here swallow. That Hitler and Stalin were really bosom buddies who ended up fighting each other in order to see who was more left-wing…
November 26th, 2009 at 1:51 amoh and if you don’t know that 109 is sarcasm, well there’s no hope for you…
So what’s your solution, Richard? Are you going to take it to the next level and start killing us “leftists” like the fringe right wingnuts like the guy who shot up the liberal church and the wingnut who killed the police officers because he thought Obama was coming to steal his guns? Conspiracy theories like the ones you espouse are going to get people killed.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:57 amEverybody’s scared to be a skeptic?
Au contraries–the climate-change skeptics seem quite pleased with themselves. They obviously think they’re geniuses, much smarter than all those stupid scientists. It’s a white-guy thing.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:39 amThe only reputable scientific warming denier I know of is Freeman Dyson of the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton. But he does not deny the warming, only that it is too costly to give up fossil fuels.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:47 amIn fact, if we stop treating our atmosphere like a sewer, the climate system will heal itself over time, potentially more rapidly than we expect.
and where might we hope for the poisons from this magical clean-up to go? Poison leaving the atmosphere goes somewhere – and it doesn’t evaporate into space and it does not magically become harmless – it stays here on Earth.
The poisons we’ve generate through combustion are here to stay, doing environmental damage for a very long time.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:53 amand where might we hope for the poisons from this magical clean-up to go?
Isn’t it Miraculous ….that before Humans discovered Organic Chemistry and the subsequent Everlasting molecules (like DDT)…
Every Organic Molecule that was created by living organisms, that could be termed a “Poison” or waste product….
Was in fact FOOD for a different living Organism. Perfect Balance in the Biosphere.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:47 amRichard Stallman
November 26th, 2009 at 9:09 amis too insane to even respond to.
Richard Stallman, I am waiting for your response but I hope it’s not true that you are too cowardly to respond to the posters here after posting your hateful drivel…
November 26th, 2009 at 10:28 amHow anyone could defend these so called “scientist” of the Climate Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Angelia needs to have their head examined. They refused to comply with the basic concept of science – here are the steps (from wiki):
1. Define the question [yes, they did]
2. Gather information and resources [yes, they did]
3. Form hypothesis [yes, they did]
4. Perform experiment and collect data [yes, they did]
5. Analyze data [NO - they cooked the books to their own liking]
6. Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis [NO, they manipulated the data]
7. Publish results [NO, they published their "findings"]
8. Retest (frequently done by other scientists)[HELL NO, they STILL refuse to publish the raw data to be peer reviewed]
They flaunted their refusal to release the data as prescribed by the Freedom Of Information Act (FOI) – threatening to delete the data before they would release it! WHAT?
They attempted to suppress dissenting views by threatening journalist and media outlets if they published anything that might be contrary to their position…
We spent billions & billions of dollars to try and determine IF man was accelerating global warming and how and all we got was a bunch of so called scientist trying to play politics for the all mighty $ (or pound).
Every scientist that subscribed to this/their view needs to turn in their degree and go hide in shame – they, of all people, should KNOW the steps in a true scientific process and they willingly abdicated their responsibility to the public at large and to their own personal ethics.
Horrible – horrible behavior and anyone defending them is a complete unadulterated moron.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:37 amYou believe corporations who make billions of dollars, over what scientists say about how man has a negative effect on the climate. Then you have the uneducated, beck,limpass,and hannity telling you that its a hoax. Corporations and dooshbags on AM radio dont give a crap about you or our planet. They live for the dollar, and thats it.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:32 pmfikrinne – That is beyond silly. I read the frickin e-mails! Guilty as hell is what they are! Uneducated? Go look in the mirror – that is the uneducated fool who still believes in this crap.
Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh – entertainers – that’s what they are… Along with Keith Olbermann and that ilk…
Go READ the frickin e-mails!! Here’s one example:
“I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline”
“Trick” with “hide” in the same sentence? ‘Splain that one Lucy… Um, well, you can’t can you?
Don’t deflect this to “corporations who make billions” – Don’t throw a straw man in there and beat the crap out of him… piss poor argument is what that is (actually, it’s NO argument whatsoever)
November 26th, 2009 at 1:15 pmJagman, it seems like they CHERRY-PICKED the emails that made it seem that climate change was a big conspiracy. Why don’t we call for the releasing of ALL the emails before we make a judgment?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:43 pmTrick is used in scientific circles not in the way you think, not as something devious, but rather a way of simplifying things. Just because hackers took things out of context in cherry-picked emails does not mean that this is a huge conspiracy. This university is one of the many that is conducting climate research.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:46 pmIt seems to be a handicapped contest. Those warning about the potential dangers of human aided climate change are required to stay close to the facts. Whenever they venture forth into opinion, which is what scientists must do when they are at the edge of knowledge,they are skewered.
The climate change deniers, however, are spouting opinion mainly occasionally supported by carefully screened “facts.”
My solution is to support those who are concerned about what we may be doing to our planet and to reduce my consumption and use of energy where possible.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:49 pmI’ve read the emails too. I still can’t find the ones that say global warming is a hoax or that contain any evidence that scientists are wrong, or lying, about it.
What I have seen is excerpts from two alleged emails that the Reichwhiners have jumped all over. One, from 2000, was lamenting a lack of data that would explain the cooler year of 1999 after the record high of 1998. Since that time we have realized that el Nino was part of the reason for an aberrant high in ‘98. The “trick” on the other hand was simply in reference to using a mathematical model.
I might add that these two emails are only two out of thousands. The flap about them is more indicative of the ignorance of critics than any shortcoming of the scientists, oe science, involved.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:35 pmIt’s also indicative of the right’s tendency to cherry-pick and take things out of context…
November 26th, 2009 at 2:45 pmSaying something is a trick in science is the same as saying it is elegant in math. By ‘hide’ the data he meant ‘do not use these numbers which the people who collected them doubt.’
Aside from your hysterical and ignorant ranting name one study, one data set that was compromised.
Anyone who thinks there is a conspiracy all around the world by thousands of scientists and researchers for some political agenda probably believes the moon landings were faked and needs their tinfoil hat recalibrated.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:08 pmOh good grief! This is ridiculous! Are you guys (and girls) kidding me? I certainly understand the use of the word “trick” in science but when you follow it up with “hide” – then we have a problem.
Have they released the “raw” data they have used? NO – why? Cause it would be peer reviewed by people (scientist) that aren’t so SURE about the validity of their data – they have threatened to delete the data if they were forced to release it under the Freedom Of Information act.
What are they scared of? If their science is so damn good then why not release the data? What if they’re wrong and another scientist can improve it – don’t you wanna know the truth – the best science available. This is not a conspiracy theory – that is piss poor science (or lack thereof).
How about this little nugget:
“The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.”
There is public money being used to support this rubbish (billions and billions) and these “scientist” have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar and if you can’t admit to that then you are living in delusional world.
Don’t give me some shuck and jive story about “taking content out of context” – or “cherry picking” – that is bullshit and you know it.
Don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining!
November 26th, 2009 at 4:36 pmI’m afraid that our stupid troll is misinformed. A simple typing of “climate data” on Google leads to decades worth of raw data that would take several lifetimes to pour through.
Are we really to believe that an unfortunate choice of words in a private conversation somehow invalidates the life’s work of thousands?
November 26th, 2009 at 5:15 pmFor the love of PETE:
I can get raw data about the flight of Santa Claus next month but you CAN NOT get the raw data from CRU and according to their website:
“The Climatic Research Unit is widely recognised as one of the world’s leading institutions concerned with the study of natural and anthropogenic climate change.” (or NOT)
Oh yeah, the personal attack “stupid troll” – how about I just call you “stupid jerk”? Do you feel better?
Here’s what they did: (among other things)
They rebuilt the temperature history using a proxy that diverges completely from recent temperature record.
Honest work would be to draw two curves…one with the proxy-based temperature, one with the recent temperature record.
As soon as they replace one part of the first curve with the second curve, they want to hide the divergence and pretend their proxy-based temperature is coherent with recent temperature measures…
Not honest, not scientific, just, plain misleading.
November 26th, 2009 at 6:03 pmhttp://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/
November 26th, 2009 at 6:33 pmThanks pete!
But, riddle me this, Batman – how did they arrive at these numbers?
They freely admit that the years 1961-1990 are estimates so how are they getting the temperature in 1851?
Where is the raw data that shows how they achieved these values?
That’s the point.
They fudged it.
Nice try, though.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:18 pmHow do you explain that this is ONE of MANY universities conducting research on climate change? Are you guys SO desperate to grasp for straws that ANYTHING will suffice?
November 26th, 2009 at 7:51 pmKitty,
It’s not so much “grasp[ing] for straws” – and it’s not “you guys” – it’s me. I have followed this agenda since the early 90’s and I’m appalled at the lack of proof and the hesitancy of the scientific community to release good, sound, reliable data while, at the same time, snubbing and ridiculing other scientist that might question their findings.
Considering the billions and billions (perhaps trillions) of dollars that have been invested in this program and the billions and billions more to be invested – where is the good hard sound data – peer reviewed by both sides of the fence?
When we have a leading University that reports their findings to the IPCC with immense credibility and then we find out that they’ve been fudging the data – that puts into question all of the other scientist and their findings – fair or not.
Those other scientist should have been screaming for the raw empirical data to justify their claims – but they didn’t. They accepted it as fact,ignored their ethics and that makes them equally culpable to this fraud.
I want the truth. Period. I don’t want to be sold a bill of goods and then smirked at if I disagree with your findings when you base them on shoddy science.
Who doesn’t want the truth? Don’t you want the truth? Don’t you want to know if you’re being sold a bill of goods that might cost trillions of dollars?
I’m not saying that man is not contributing to global warming – I’m not saying that man is – we don’t know. And after this fiasco, we might never know – how pathetic is that?
A bunch of crappy scientist playing politics instead of doing their job and a whole, much larger, set of scientist that didn’t call their hand of it and have disgraced themselves.
How pathetic is that? Sad.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:23 pmjagman1017
Wow you are really thick.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:48 pmNo! I’m actually in pretty good shape – work out a couple times a week… I mean, I had a big fatty turkey day today but I wouldn’t say I’m “thick”…
November 26th, 2009 at 10:43 pmLet the spin begin! jagman1017 @ 137: You’re soon to be voted down (click to read) These regressives who are supposedly open to all opinions do not like to read even an honest, levelheaded assesment such as yours. I tend to scroll down and read the “click to read” posts. Its actually pretty amusing.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:48 pmkitty @136: “Are you guys SO desperate to grasp for straws that ANYTHING will suffice?” Gee Kitty, are you guys so desperate to grasp for straws that ANYTHING will suffice?
November 26th, 2009 at 10:57 pm141, that’s not the point…your side takes emails out of context and cherry picks the hacked ones. Why not release ALL of the hacked emails?
November 26th, 2009 at 11:41 pmjagman, I appreciate your honest response and yes, of course the emails look bad when you look at it that way. People in academia are not immune from overlooking and intentionally ignoring evidence that does not confirm their biases and all. However, to say that ALL of the scientists working on this issue are of the same ilk is to discredit those who are doing their best to meet and stick to high academic standards. Yes, there will be those who cherry-pick evidence but that is not only the doings of those who believe that global warming is real.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:43 pmIt is one of the first things that I learned doing research. Let the conclusion come after you dive into the material. However, I doubt that all of the researchers fit into the rogue category.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:45 pmKitty,
Thank you. Your #143 response on this subject is about the only one that appears to be honest and well thought out. And, yes – these e-mails looks bad (and it is bad).
Unfortunately, this is going to put a lot of scientist that are trying to do good work into question – fair or not – and it’s their own damn fault. It’s high time that academia puts aside its bias of other peers that disagree with them and work together to find the truth.
We’re probably going to have an inquiry in the UK and the US and I’ll be watching – I’m hopeful that these biases that have existed between scientist on both sides of the issue are dissolved and the “pro” side accepts the doubts of the “con” side and the “truth” emerges.
This is not suppose to be a religion. This is suppose to be science. Let’s have good hard serious science emerge and then we can move on from there.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:22 amWell I hope that the bad apples if any are weeded out…yes there might be some bad apples but we have to keep in mind that this is one university out of many that are conducting research. Yes there might be a few bad ones at that university but it should not discredit the whole idea as the right-wing might want to believe.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:53 amIf I ever finish crunching the USWS (NOAA) historical data set, I might look at these guy’s numbers, and perhaps look at the e-mail (a lot of people cherrypick that kind of stuff when an argument goes hot; and it can be cherrypicked for good as well as ill).
The US historical set has it’s own problems. Right now, I’m looking at a reduced variance artifact in the annual mean data that falls between about 1962 and 1969. The data shows a reasonable scatter for years preceeding and following but virtually no scatter over those years – just a nearly linear slope.
Frankly, I prefer to deal with raw measurement data right at the front end. The data can be massaged afterward or diddled with, but without the raw set available, we’ve no integrity in the process.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:47 pmHow do you “massage’ FAKE???
November 28th, 2009 at 4:36 pmWhile it is troubling that some climatologists appear to have at least discussed filtering data to improve the strength of their theories about global climate change — an act that is a clear violation of scientific ethics — this does not in and of itself provide evidence that man-induced climate change is a fallacy.
There is an overwhelming amount of empirical and observational data that support the contention that nitrogen and carbon-based gas emissions related to fossil fuel consumption have had a significant deleterious effect on the planet’s climate patterns over the past century.
November 28th, 2009 at 4:53 pm