New Report: Triggered Public Option Is Better Than The Existing Public Option Provisions
New Report: Triggered Public Option Is Better Than The Existing Public Option Provisions
A new report from the Urban Institute argues that a “strong” public option — one that is triggered in the event that overall growth in national health spending exceeds a pre-determined target — may do more to control health care spending than the public option proposals offered in existing legislation:
In the absence of enough political support to pass a strong public option at this time, a “trigger” for a strong public option should be considered for inclusion in health reform legislation whether or not a weak public option is included as a political compromise. Even the threat of such a plan being triggered offers the potential to affect market dynamics between insurers and providers.
The report says that the Senate and House’s public option provisions (which require the public plan to independently negotiate rates with providers) hold little hope of lowering costs in areas of the country with high provider concentration. In areas where hospitals have “too strong a market presence to be excluded from insurer networks,” hospitals could dictate prices, stripping the public plan of its ability to negotiate cheaper rates, the report warns. According to a 2006 study, 86% “of large metropolitan areas were considered to have highly concentrated hospital markets.”
Policymakers can overcome the political challenges of enacting a strong public option — one which compels Medicare providers to participate and establishes Medicare-like reimbursement rates — by placing the plan behind a trigger mechanism which “would allow private insurers the opportunity to show that they can provide affordable coverage under the new health reform rules.”
The report recognizes that “many proponents of a strong public option oppose a compromise relying on triggers because they believe that triggers would never be pulled” and suggests that structuring the trigger around overall growth in national health spending — rather than affordability — would make it more likely that a public plan would be established in the absence of meaningful cost containment.
“Opponents of a public option could argue to override the trigger by claiming that factors other than health plans’ inability to manage spending caused the lack of affordability,” the report warns. A “triggering event tied to affordability” could subject the public option “to the same controversy as now, with opponents arguing that other policies should be adopted instead of a public option and increasing the likelihood of congressional pre-emption of the trigger.”
To avoid these pitfalls, policymakers should consider basing the trigger on “overall growth in national health spending.” “An advantage of using growth in national health expenditures (NHE) is that the data are regularly and consistently reported and are directly related to the purpose of a public option — to create competition with private insurers to reduce health spending growth,” the report notes.
Cross-posted on The Wonk Room.
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Remember to squeeze, not pull that trigger.
Anything that RESULTS in a stong public option is better than the give away to the health insurance industry that is currently up for debate and passage.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:39 pmHow about another “Free Medical Day” such as last Week’s in Arkansas being considered a valid trigger?
November 27th, 2009 at 12:45 pmInteresting.
The intent of reform is to reduce health care costs in America and to assure health care for its people. This reform is not for the benefit the insurance companies, which is what most of us fear.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:45 pmIs anyone besides Olbermann and Maddow talking about the free clinics and the testimonies being heard from the attendees?
People are hurting, and it just seems that those in charge are deaf and blind to that.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:46 pmAnything is, perhaps, better than nothing at all. Still, there is only one perfect and viable solution, and that’s single payer, unlimited, in conjunction with the total demise of the insurance industry, forever and for good. Health care should be considered a human right and, consequently, the top government priority is an efficient and fair system which serves all people on these shores, always (and yes, that includes illegal immigrants, even pregnant women who wish they weren’t. Always, no questions asked. How to pay for it? Obvious: no more war, no more warmongering. Defense only. Period. That should yield roughly 700 million per year, at least. It could be done, it can be done.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:47 pmMarie: People are hurting, and it just seems that those in charge are deaf and blind to that.
My son shared this video with me yesterday. Talk about being blinded to reality.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:51 pmNew Report: Triggered Public Option Is Better Than The Existing Public Option Provisions
– - Instead of the photo of a gun trigger, I’d have preferred one of Gene Autry’s horse.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:56 pmI think it was Roy Rogers’ horse, cowboy.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:57 pmI think it was Roy Rogers’ horse, cowboy.
– - Dang, Champion. Drat.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:04 pmHeh. Call me a cynic, but I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t believe that our Congress is going to pass anything that’s actually going to benefit anyone besides the insurance companies…
If we forced our reps and our Senators to wear the logos of the companies that own them – the House and Senate chambers would look like freaking Nascar. But at least *that* would be honest…
November 27th, 2009 at 1:06 pmAlso Willie Nelson’s beloved acoustic guitar, Trigger, would’ve been nicer.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:06 pmIt’s all horseshit anyway Badmoodman.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:06 pmIf we
pullerrr..squeeze the trigger, let’s fire off1.) Universal Single Payer Healthcare System - Medicare for All or Medicare Part E for everyone.
2.) Remove “For-Profit” from Healthcare and S&I Insurance.
3.) Eliminate the notion that we receive our healthcare from insurance companies and start thinking of healthcare as a Trust Fund we will leave for our kids and grandkids.
As RUCeriousMaggot! so eloquently once said….
“I still don’t get how my health care should be controlled by a system that was invented to compensate shippers for losses incurred due to storms and pirates.”
November 27th, 2009 at 1:11 pmI am sorry but this is where we have to hold the line. A trigger will never be pulled. It will die in loopholes and fuzzy math showing the trigger has not been reached. It is another way for the insurance industry and corrupt legislators to go another day without reform. Today, they say, “settle for this, its all you get” and tomorrow, they will say, “settle for less, its all you can get, and the next day and the next. People, Its time to get mean and start fighting back. This is a slow death for the public option. Hold a line here and demand a strong public option. People are being too polite here. Its time to ruin the careers of a few of these asinine politicians and make an example of what happens when they go corrupt. There is no fear in these corporate defenders
November 27th, 2009 at 1:12 pmIt’s possible that a triggered public option would work, but the trigger has to remain embedded in the system. There can’t be a sunset provision on the trigger. And it’s useless unless the option is actually pretty tough; most of the insurance corporations are already capable of meeting a Medicare standard, if pressed.
Apart from the employment issue, I don’t see why we need the overhead burden of the insurance companies. In fact, there might not even be that much of an employment issue; is there any data out there on how much of their back office operations the insurance companies have moved off-shore?
November 27th, 2009 at 1:18 pm5. Frugalchariot says:
“in conjunction with the total demise of the insurance industry, forever and for good.”
We need to put a stake in the heart of the predatory, obsolete, expensive, yearly S&I Insurance industry. Let it go the way of the Buggy Whip and Slide Rule industries!
“There is nothing so difficult in all human affairs as to change the established order of things….. Because those who have it are certain of what they will lose, and those who will gain are uncertain of their advance.” – President Bill Clinton – NetRoots
November 27th, 2009 at 1:20 pm# 14, dannylauve:
Good points! The “Trigger” also assumes that the Democrats are still in power to pull it.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:21 pmWe’ve compromised away enough (too much) already.
@14. Good point, though I think we should go one further and aim at the insurance execs, maybe if we ruin a few of them, some of the others might be convinced to play fair.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:26 pmHaven’t the American people been ‘gouged’ enough by the insurance companies? They have raped us in every conceivable way possible way for decades. In the unbelievable event a decent health insurance reform bill is actually passed and signed, it should go into effect ‘immediately’ as any ‘trigger’ that could be pulled, was pulled years ago. They have gone from non-profits to for-profit corps and now command exorbitant prices that escalate annually with more and more conditions / rules placed upon their clients daily. [If you had a cold ten years ago, you will be exempt from pneumonia coverage as you had a preexisting condition with that cold.] With the exception of a handful of senators who are genuinely working to reform the system, the rest are only concerned about saving their campaign contributions from these corps. And Obama has done nothing to help us after campaigning on ‘we need to have the same health insurance he and all senators have’ but once elected, squashed ’single-payer and public option’ as tho they were never uttered from his lips. I’ve had enough and hope you all have too!
November 27th, 2009 at 1:26 pmAs they say: “The Devil’s in the details.”, or in this case, what constitutes the “pre-determined target”. Who decides what that “target” should be?
The problem with the “trigger” argument is that if costs could be kept low simply through regulation, we wouldn’t need a “public option”. And it is only THE THREAT of a Public Option being “triggered” that is even threatening the industry to do the right thing.
Just as Conservatives have watered-down the Public Option to the point where it could conceivably have NO power to forces prices down so long as millions are PROHIBITED from even having the choice, those same Conservatives would set the “pre-determined target” point sufficiently high as to ENSURE that the trigger is never pulled, OR insert certain benchmarks that are SO easy to hurdle that the insurance companies can meet them simply be complying with the new “electronic records” provision.
Sorry, the argument that the “threat” of “triggering” the Public Option could do more than having a strong Public Option itself is total nonsense.
That’s like arguing that the threat of electric cars would force oil companies to lower gas prices. Please.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:27 pm14. dannylauve says:
“A trigger will never be pulled. It will die in loopholes and fuzzy math showing the trigger has not been reached.”
I agree with your concerns, but if we create a simple trigger, and a tough one it may work.
1.) Make it tough on the “Status Quo” before it is
pulled…errr squeezed by mandating a reduction of 2% a year until 2013 for both the S&I Insurance industry and the “For-Profit” Healthcare industry and then a 1% each year there after until the cost of healthcare is <= 10% GDP without reducing patient services. If either the S&I Insurance industry OR the “For-Profit” healthcare industry fail the 2% reduction the trigger ispulled…errrr squeezed….2.) Then the items in my post #13 become law.
Either way, the burden of reducing cost is placed squarely on both industries. If one of them fails, they both fail.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:36 pmThat’s what happens when there is no leadership. Couldn’t the President have clearly stated what he wanted and made Pelosi and Reid toe the line.
Yeah, I guess he did, he stated he was for compromise. Something Pelosi and Reid do quite well.
After voting for Dem.’s for 32 years, just who am I supposed to vote for now?
November 27th, 2009 at 1:38 pmgummitch,
November 27th, 2009 at 1:42 pmI have forwarded that video on to a few friends — thank you and your son!
The problem with the current public option plan is that it wouldn’t come into effect until 2013 anyway. After all the hype died down, you would have year upon year of having to defend/support something that didn’t exist and wouldn’t exist for years. The trigger compromise would appear to offer an avenue towards greater support, a stronger public option and it could/should likely be triggered before 2013. Seems like a win, win or am I missing something?
November 27th, 2009 at 1:45 pmWhy is it that whenever a bill comes up that might benefit the whole of the nation the congress men and women and pundits always bring up cost? But whenever something comes up that will benefit the wealthy cost is never mentioned or even a factor.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:46 pmRich H says: #22
After voting for Dem.’s for 32 years, just who am I supposed to vote for now?
I feel the same way; betrayed and bullshitted. I’m voting for Jesse Ventura in 2012. I’d love to see Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity call him un-American.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:49 pmAnything that doesn’t stop the bankrupting of Americans over healthcare is not reform.
My 2¢
November 27th, 2009 at 1:52 pmSo let me get this straight:
We start off wanting a single payer system, but some conservatives complain and we come up with the “public option”. But conservatives still complain, and now we are to a “trigger” system.
By the time our spineless representatives in congress get finished, the government will be paying the insurance companies 1 billion per year per insurance company with no changes to their current policies because they aren’t making enough profit.
In the mean time, Americans are dying and nobody in Washington cares.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:54 pmReal reform would do one simple thing:
Take the insurance companies out of the medical business.
Millions of jobs would be lost–instantly. It would be a mess.
But it’s the only right thing to do. Insurance companies do not deserve to profit from our health, and from denying health care. Those profits belong recirculated in the system, helping even MORE people.
Our forefathers established public utilities, reasonable tax systems to supply us all with basic needs like water, clean streets, electricity and gas, etc. They established laws to protect us from Wall Street. They came to these laws with wisdom, and from hard practice with the so-called free market piracy of corporatism and trusts.
Then St. Ronald Reagan came along, and sold an awful lot of Americans a bill of goods with his father-figure good looks and speechifyin’. We suffer from that P.T. Barnum’s quest for the White House to this day.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:54 pmGummitch, that video is awesome! Cracked me up.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:55 pmThanks Mr. Evil,
Sometimes it seems it verbotten to criticize the pres. But there’s no doubt in my mind virtually all of these so called democrats would have been members of the republican party not too long ago.
A party I despise by the way. Why can’t we just do something good for the american people. If it’s really that hard, and it’s really that much of a mystery, maybe they shouldn’t be in office.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:57 pm#22, Rich:
I have to give Nancy Pelosi some props. She’s been fighting a decent fight for a robust public option; granted, she has more political cover over in the House, with more Dems willing to vote for the Real Deal.
But the bottom line is all that matters. And a crappy plan will be much less popular than a good plan that WORKS. For that, she will bear some responsibility.
But nothing like Harry Reid, who’s doing such a piss-poor job, he’s under threat of being PRIMARIED–and he’s the Majority Leader!
November 27th, 2009 at 1:58 pmLefty,
If this reform passes the way it stands, the insurance companies are going to be crying all the way to the bank.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:00 pmI’m at the point where I don’t care what it is, just as long as it works. Watching Americans dying and suffering is a National disgrace. All those old ‘Tea-Baggers’ and politcians have Health Care that WE pay for. If they think this is ‘Socialism’, then they should give up THEIR ‘Social Security’ and ‘Medicare’. Fair is fair.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:02 pmDaddy-O,
I was willing to give Pelosi a pass on the Impeachment’s off the table thing depending on how she handled healthcare. Perhaps I want too much (not too much for the rest of the industrialized world by the way), but it all seems like a collosal failure to me.
Simple, basic, medicare for everyone. To me, it would have seemed, if you wanted to reform our system, you would have invited the health ministers (or whatever they are) from the aforementioned countries to see what they do and how they do it and how there experience might translate to the mess we’re in.
What did we do, negotiate with Republicans (the kiss of death – just before the mob puts a bullet in the back of your head), strike some kind of misbegotten deal with drug manufacturers, and pretty much let the republicans run away with the discourse.
I’ll not apologize for calling this a disaster. But it certainly isn’t the way any reasonalbe person (who really wanted reform) would have handled this.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:08 pmI agree. The bill being debated in the Senate is too weak as it stands, i.e. a public option with a provision for individual States to opt out. This opt out feature sets up a race to the bottom and assures failure. To prevent this from happening a trigger needed to establish minimum requirements which cannot be opted out.
Lastly, I would like to see CBO numbers following a simple insertion of a reasonable trigger as well as high and low estimates for States opting out. The CBO needs to provide these “what if” scenarios in order for the American people to understand the ramifications of the various options being floated. In the past these reports have been too narrowly focused to be of that much help.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:15 pmThe only trigger that needs to be pulled or squeezed is the one that targets the health insurance profits so we can put them out of our misery.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:15 pmI agree with the point that the details of the trigger need to be outlined before we can say if it should be considered. My thoughts are that the trigger will also be watered down because the components of the trigger will be amenable to repeal or change. If the trigger goes into effect on 2011 along with other reforms, it might be acceptable. I suspect the insurance companies will hike rates substantially before the trigger goes into effect. The trigger must be tied to today’s numbers so that the companies do not get the opportunity to gouge before the trigger goes into effect. But how the trigger deals with the uninsured is unknown. I have serious objections to a tax credit that is going to end up in the pockets of the insurance companies. Therefor, I would like an opt in to a public option for states that do not want to wait for the trigger. There are many populous states that would likely opt in immediately because of the number of uninsured. I don’t give a rat’s @ss what the states that do not want the public option do. I don’t trust the insurance companies because they will be seeking ways to not pay claims as soon as the law goes into effect.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:18 pmAfter all this it’s come down to triggers. Disheartening, disdainful and disgusting. I’m with Hoodathunk. There’s only one good trigger.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:22 pmWe need Medicare for all, now. Just lower the age eligibility for Medicare health insurance coverage from 65 years down to 0 years, 0 months, 0 days, 0 hours and 1 minute old. Simple.
Dump these for-greed private-profit insurance corporations. Take the greed and profit out of health. Period.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:24 pmWhy thankee, for the nice quote COProg!
November 27th, 2009 at 2:25 pmLefty Liberal says:
In the mean time, Americans are dying and nobody in Washington cares.
I disagree.. and still insist – we are trying as hard as we can for what we CAN get. And I repeat, you saw how difficult it was to get it through the house.. and just to be voted on by the senate. We won our majorities in house/senate by widening the tent to include many moderate Dems (usually southern dems), so our majorities are rather exaggerated.. this type of legislation is a STRUGGLE for a capitalist system to adopt – we’ve been trying forever.. Even adopting the cause is a political quagmire that can destroy presidents.
The bill is weak.. but we have to push for what we can get now. When the whole country doesn’t collapse into some socialist hell.. we can then push for more.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:34 pmDaddy-O says:
I have to give Nancy Pelosi some props. She’s been fighting a decent fight for a robust public option; granted, she has more political cover over in the House, with more Dems willing to vote for the Real Deal.
Only the House of Representatives can initiate budget legislation. I would like to see Pelosi and the House Dems hold hostage some of these recalcitrant Senators projects, particularly Lieberman. Quid pro quo. It would bring a whole new dimension on health care negotiations.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:37 pmANY option that doesn’t destroy the insurance industry within a year is inadequate. The crap they’re talking about in the current bill doesn’t even begin, if I recall correctly, until 2013. What the hell’s the freakin’ point with that? Start it the day of passage, not a minute later, and make damn sure it covers everyone, all the time, for everything, period, end of story.
It’s so simple, really. A one page bill would do it.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:38 pmIf we dont get healthcare with at least the public option, then all the talk,debates,and listening to the repugs and wingnut talkingheads lies was just a waste of time.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:41 pmConsidering all the lies and bullsh!t by the right I think the public at the least deserves a public option.
Trigger = letting the FIRE
November 27th, 2009 at 2:41 pmsectorCARTEL screw you over for a few more yearsIt is going to take time and a lot of hard work to undo the Republican lies. To undo the influence and power of corporate money. Anything that takes away even a small piece is a step in the right direction. Yeah, we want it all and we need it now and we have to keep working, keep pushing, keep calling for what is right for all Americans.
Social Security did not kill the private investment business. Medicare and Medicaid did not kill the private health insurance industry. It is time to put the fear aside and do what is right.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:43 pmI don’t see how you can lower costs without a public option. If you tell insurers that they must take people with preexisting conditions, that they can not deny medical treatment and raise the medical expenditure cap then costs are going to soar.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:43 pmOT
I hope all the TP staff and my fellow TP’ers had a wonderful Thanksgiving!
I know I did ;-)
November 27th, 2009 at 2:44 pmXisithrus says:
=========================
And they’re going to be using our own tax dollars to screw us.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:45 pmCartels are in collusion for profits and use legislation not competition for the best product at the cheapest price.
Anyone that tells you, or thinks this is, “free market”, is either a con-man or a rube.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:45 pmOval12345678 aka James K. Sayre says:
We need Medicare for all, now. Just lower the age eligibility for Medicare health insurance coverage from 65 years down to 0 years, 0 months, 0 days, 0 hours and 1 minute old. Simple.
Nope, comprehensive heath care needs to start at the moment of conception and continue unabated until death. Nothing less is acceptable.
If we can spend billions on unnecessary wars, we can spend billions on necessary health care!
November 27th, 2009 at 2:45 pmAnd they’re going to be using our own tax dollars to screw us.
Sure, you can be a really terrible businessman and make money if you buy off congress. The ROI is something to the order of every 5$ spent you get a 100$ return.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:48 pmlux says:
we are trying as hard as we can for what we CAN get.
In the immortal words of Theodore Roosevelt BULL FEATHERS!!
The spineless Democrats are doing NOTHING to help the American people, if they were this whole issue would have been resolved by now.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:53 pmRemoving TP from bookmarks.
Bye!
November 27th, 2009 at 2:59 pmI’m heartened to read so many posts that echo my beliefs. There is hope yet.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:59 pmXis @55
/snark?
I hope.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:01 pmFlexo at 24 says:
November 27th, 2009 at 3:09 pm————————————————————–
It’s been changed now to take effect in 2014.
The more that gets debated in regard to health care in this nation, the weaker the bill gets. The idea that ’something is better than nothing’ is fine when you’re hunting, but it falls far short of what kind of health care we need in this country.
I know this is a pipe-dream, but keeping it simple (stupid) would allow far more options to amend the bill further into the future. The bill, as it stands, makes an attempt to reform, yet allows for too many questionable loopholes to be used by the conservatives and corporations.
Medicare for everyone. Tax the corporations and the uber-wealthy.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:12 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Not your decision to make.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:22 pmWould Republicans show the kind of behavior that Democrats do? Let’s take tax cuts for the rich. Would they have been like you know tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans won’t get much bipartisan support so we’ll only cut taxes for the middle class? Would they have abandoned tax cuts for the richest Americans for a few Democratic votes?
Screw the GOP. They offer NOTHING besides enriching their corporate masters and the richest Americans while screwing over everyone else. They’ll demand amendments which the Democrats will pass on their knees begging for a few GOP votes which will never come. Then once this package fails, they’ll blame the Democrats for not providing a decent health care bill. Once they come to power, they’ll fall back to the status quo and everyone will forget how supposedly the GOP attacked the Democrats for not offering a good health care bill…
November 27th, 2009 at 3:24 pmconservative guy says:
Health care is not a human right. You do have a right to pay for.
Gee, Tell that to that someone you guys worship in the Gospels. You guys claim you guys have like a phone line to God and Jesus so discuss it with them.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:25 pmSaid the guy who apparently has no problem seeing people die due to lack of or inadequate insurance. Why do conservatives hate their fellow Americans?
November 27th, 2009 at 3:28 pmThe notion that the appearance of competition will produce the effects of competition is something that has been discussed in regulatory circles for some time. AT&T advanced the theory in the 80s when they tried to get out from under regulation. I fought against it in filings in various states. (I worked for a mid sized competitor at the time)
I didn’t believe it then and I don’t believe it now. We need something like single payor or the strong public option now. The threat of some day competition will not affect the private sector until it materializes. If the Dems keep folding every time the Reps complain then nothing will happen.
My 2 cents.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:29 pmIt’s disheartening that there’s a serious debate here in American as to whether or not health care is a right. Conservatives seem so barbaric.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:37 pmIf it were up to conservatives, Jesus would have healed on the basis on whether the people could pay. Gee, what would have happened to the lepers then? It’s like they talk about a Social Gospel to the rich by giving them more and more but screw everyone else…
November 27th, 2009 at 3:41 pmI really want a single payer, universal health care plan because I think it is the only fair and moral thing to do, but we won’t see it in this bill, with this congress.
The best we can hope for is the best we can get passed; lame, weak and unfair as it appears it will be.
We have been screaming for universal care for a long time, we thought we could get heard, but the lobbyists are louder and have more money.
The way I see it, we have to settle for what we can get, and keep pushing for what it should be.
The president is damned by 50% of the nation no matter what he does, no matter in what arena, no matter what cause. He has too many enemies who hate him because he breathes.
The congress is too connected to the lobbyists.
Everytime the DNC calls me, they get an earful, and so with the DCCC. Who lobbies for us? And the answer is not our representatives.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:43 pmconservative guy says:
“Health care is not a human right. You do have a right to pay for.”
Who will fight your wars for you when all the poor people are dead?
November 27th, 2009 at 3:45 pmMarie,
Exaclty, 50% are going to dispise him no matter what. So why not work to pass something you campaigned on?
FTA.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:47 pmRich H says:
conservative guy says:
“Health care is not a human right. You do have a right to pay for.”
Who will fight your wars for you when all the poor people are dead?
The only right conservatives believe in is screwing people over to get rich…It’s all about money to these people, false pretenses of being moral put aside…
November 27th, 2009 at 4:01 pmRich, @ 70,
I wish he would campaign harder for single payer, but it would be fruitless; legislation is made in the congress where 40% will never agree to anything, and the other 60% can’t get on the same page.
If Democrats were able to work together instead of against one another (and against the president when it comes to their campaign funding), this would have been resolved in July.
November 27th, 2009 at 5:27 pmBlanche Lincoln is in real trouble in Arkansas — so why doesn’t she fall on her sword and go along with the health care bill?
November 27th, 2009 at 5:46 pmShe won’t be reelected in 2010 anyway, so she may as well do some good before she loses to the repugniscum.
Marie says:
If Democrats were able to work together instead of against one another (and against the president when it comes to their campaign funding), this would have been resolved in July.
Some of the Dems are not working with the others which is why I advocate Pelosi play hardball with the Senate. She can hold the Senators pet projects hostage until the health care bill gets passed and it is more in line with the House bill. The conservaDems will have to play ball instead of trying to dictate the terms of the bill. Reid is letting a handful reshape the legislation so Pelosi has to use the stick in her pocket.
November 27th, 2009 at 5:48 pmPelosi appears to be tougher than Reid – so maybe she can weild the power as you suggest.
November 27th, 2009 at 5:53 pmwield — not weild :(
November 27th, 2009 at 5:53 pmXisithrus says:
Trust us.
YOU’LL BE BACK.
This site is like heroin – hard to quit.
Ask the trolls (even with all the abuse, they just can’t stop.)
November 27th, 2009 at 6:32 pmI understand what your saying. However, we could have passed whatever we wanted with just 51 votes. We didn’t need to go through this 60 vote months on end drag out bull. Why negotiate with the biggest bunch of losers ever?
I’m sorry, I just don’t see the excuse for the sellout.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:33 pmgummitch@6 – Great video. They really are just about this stubborn about the health care sitation.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:40 pmUrban Institute says, “In the absence of enough political support to pass a strong public option at this time, a “trigger” for a strong public option should be considered for inclusion in health reform legislation whether or not a weak public option is included as a political compromise.”
Wrong! If policy makers refuse to enact a strong public option now, we should burn all their houses down, put them on a deserted island in the Arctic Ocean, and give them a year to reconsider their decision.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:10 pmunder Top Rated
#2 Marie says:
Is anyone besides Olbermann and Maddow talking about the free clinics and the testimonies being heard from the attendees?
People are hurting, and it just seems that those in charge are deaf and blind to that.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:46 pm Add Karma Vote Up | Subtract Karma Vote Down | (12)
In my opinion,the media is covering up because of their corporate interest. Thom Hartmann puts it out there how the corporate boards of directors sit on each others board… they have mixed invested interest. theyrule.net has some info.
There is so much out there that could bring great ratings in dealing with the demise and horror stories of our American population dealing with the corrupt, greedy, murderous thug mentality of the corporate insurance industry and Big Pharma.
As we do not hear these stories, I can only conclude Thom Hartmann is right and the media=defense=insurance,BIgPharma are all in bed together and win by protecting on another and buying our congress.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:13 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Keneth, I can tell you think the system is fine and doesn’t need repair. Two jobs just to get healthcare? What a bargain.
November 27th, 2009 at 8:08 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
kenneth,
I think you should see a doctor about your anger issues.
November 27th, 2009 at 8:23 pmUSCKitty,
You don’t know how wrong you are about conservatives. You don’t have a clue.
How about people pulling the trigger to work harder and pulling their weight or get a 2nd job to get better healthcare? That’s what I have to do.
AND, healthcare is NOT a right!
Well the behavior of you conservatives does not tell me otherwise…so until I see any compassion or any attempt to understand those whom y’all judge, perhaps my biased interpretation of conservatism will hold. There are people who hold 3 jobs to make ends meet and they STILL cannot afford health care. We call upon you conservatives to raise the minimum wage to a LIVING wage but you conservatives refuse. Why? because it cuts into the profits…
Health care is a right, the UN Declaration of Human Rights said so…no wonder why you CONS hate the UN so much…corrupt as it may be…they have the right idea for some things.
November 27th, 2009 at 10:07 pmand Kenneth, I’m sure you have a clue about what liberalism is…I love conservatives who claim that they know everything about liberalism, but when a liberal makes an observation, as biased as it might be, then they cry all bloody hell…
Maybe what you guys espouse isn’t mainstream conservatism but a more extreme form…because all I’ve read from you trolls is more victim blaming such as in the Halliburton rape case, how someone should be thankful that she is going blind because it could have been worse, and how y’all are pro-life but won’t support affordable health care for everyone. To a liberal’s biased eyes, that is evidence that y’all only use the pro-life issues and ideology to mask the true religion of Mammon…
November 27th, 2009 at 10:09 pmlastly, you conservatives always talk about personal responsibility and how those who don’t make as much as you are lazy and shiftless. They don’t WANT to get ahead but would rather spend their money on booze and drugs or whatever, right? If they didn’t spend so much time raising children…yes I know the myths you conservatives use to demean people. How would you know? Have you ever done outreach to those people? You must have to claim to know so much about them.
Kenneth, it is easy for your ilk to say GET A 2ND job…but tell that to people in my school district who work 3 jobs to make ends meet. You always say GET AN EDUCATION, but you guys don’t do anything to make tuition affordable to those who WANT to get ahead. What are YOU doing to allow these people a hand-up instead of a handout as you guys accuse them of wanting? Are you guys fighting for a living wage? Unionization? The middle class? Are you fighting to keep their jobs here instead of being outsourced? No, it seems like the conservatives in BOTH PARTIES with our president are bending over backwards to help the gamblers on Wall Street instead of those who truly need the help.
“Let them eat cake” is a perfect quote for you conservatives who pontificate about how everyone should work while coddling those who inherit their money and contribute nothing to society like those on Wall Street who speculate and gamble. You guys use the myth of the lazy and shiftless worker to justify doing nothing to raise their standard of living. Ever since the Antebellum South where lazy-ass plantation owners called their slaves who broke their backs for them lazy and shiftless, while they went out jumping bushes on their horses and courting Southern belles to today where people like you Kenneth in your self-justification and self-righteousness engage in downward comparison to make yourselves feel better. Is any of this false? Perhaps in your mind it all is…but to someone like a liberal, it isn’t.
November 27th, 2009 at 10:20 pm2.) Remove “For-Profit” from Healthcare and S&I Insurance.</em
as i’ve suspected – the cons must equate “not for profit”
with “not for pay”… what idiots…
their selfish greed just shines through…
how can any thoughtful person even consider that healthcare professionals would not be paid appropriately and generously for their expertise and knowledge…?
oh, and damn the trigger…
In the absence of enough political support to pass a strong public option at this time, a “trigger” for a strong public option should be considered for inclusion in health reform legislation whether or not a weak public option is included as a political compromise.
why the hell does the urban institute think there is an absence of political support??? IT IS BECAUSE OF LIES.
LIES. LIES. LIES.
lies and ignorance and greed… and more lies…
November 27th, 2009 at 10:39 pmThey’re masking their concern for the profits of the big insurance companies by suddenly taking on the plight of the doctor…Where were they when doctors have to fight with the BLOATED BUREAUCRACY from the health insurance companies over claims?
November 27th, 2009 at 10:43 pmmedicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW! medicare for all, NOW!
November 28th, 2009 at 12:58 amP.S. Millions of people need to march on Washington, now! The only way these bozos will listen, is if we shove it right down their throats. If I tell two people, and you tell two people, and so on, it will happen.
November 28th, 2009 at 1:02 amYou are, willoworchard. You are.
November 28th, 2009 at 1:05 amPardon my misspelling.
November 28th, 2009 at 1:06 amGood god, man. Be a real journalist and READ the damn Urban Institute report. I spent the time and did so.
The headline is completely WRONG. The conclusions of the report state that a strong public option is clearly the best way to go, but the political climate will likely not allow it. The current lesser alternatives provided by pending legislative are triggers and opt-outs. And triggers would be effective only if they are hard legislated ones, not report-committee-driven soft ones. So none of the current alternatives in pending legislation are as good as the strong public option. The headline is a complete mis-interpretation of the Urban Institute study.
November 28th, 2009 at 1:20 amUSC Kitty,
You always say GET AN EDUCATION, but you guys don’t do anything to make tuition affordable to those who WANT to get ahead. What are YOU doing to allow these people a hand-up instead of a handout as you guys accuse them of wanting?
We are trying to fix the schools in my area but the Liberal politicians and Teachers Union fights School vouchers and real education and has dumbed down the system.
Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Dumbing-Down-Our-Kids-Themselves/dp/0312148232/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259389211&sr=1-3
November 28th, 2009 at 1:24 amOh yes, school choice…are you sure that politicians of your side have good intentions? You might, I don’t doubt that, but I see it as a way to blame schools that might need the help.
November 28th, 2009 at 1:33 amand I see it as a way to justify doing nothing for schools that need to be fixed. What are you going to do? Create a new flight from failing schools instead of helping them with funding? Are you going to increase the gap between private schools and public schools? Public schools are the foundations of our society…If we are to go through the school voucher system, are you willing to hold private schools accountable just as the public schools are?
November 28th, 2009 at 1:42 amWhat are you going to do Kenneth when it comes to fund the school voucher program? Many of the private school tuitions in the area rival that of colleges. Many of those whom the proponents claim to want to serve are low-income students. Will you guys support a tax increase to fund the schools so that they can give out all those scholarships? If past behavior towards low-income people is taken to account, you guys will tire of this and start blaming the victim rather than to pay for the programs with a tax increase…
November 28th, 2009 at 2:09 amOlympia Snowe 1 The American People 0
November 28th, 2009 at 2:26 amUSCKity,
November 28th, 2009 at 2:54 amI my area the cost per student in a public school is around $12K. Private school vouchers are about $5K. And the private schools are having a better graduation rate and putting out educated kids. We have been throwing money at our public schools here and they have been a failure. No merit incentives for teachers(Union Control), Rolls-Royce healthcare and pension plans for the all teachers especially the bad ones and they can’t get fired. Now you tell me how throwing more money at the public school system will solve this problem.
In Milwaukee, WI the public school system is so bad that the Mayor of Milwaukee is going to take over the system from the School Board. That is how bad it is getting. what about the rest of the country?
November 28th, 2009 at 2:56 amMilwaukee School System:
Socialist objection:
http://socialistworker.org/2009/11/10/milwaukee-school-takeover
These are Democrats – Barrett and Doyle -not conservatives.
November 28th, 2009 at 3:00 amhttp://uwmpost.com/article/54/10/5068-Mayoral-takeover-will-serve-only-Barrett-not-Milwaukee-schools
USCKitty,
If past behavior towards low-income people is taken to account, you guys will tire of this and start blaming the victim rather than to pay for the programs with a tax increase…
All you socialist Progressives think about is Tax, Tax, Tax. When in fact the money thrown at schools for the past 40 years have shown that this has been a waste of the tax payers dollars with no accountability of the protected Union teachers to put out a good product.
If you had a merit system to pay the top teachers top dollar the system would work better and more kids would graduate from the inner city schools and go on to a better lifestyle and jobs and pay more taxes because of it.
November 28th, 2009 at 3:05 amUSCKitty,
How do expect a better product in the school system when kids are shown crap like this???????
http://www.storyofstuff.com/
November 28th, 2009 at 3:08 amThat is NOT what American is about!
So what are you going to do Kenneth? Destroy the public school system? It seems that conservatives would love nothing better for a system where students would have to pay to get educated.
The problem with you conservatives is that you don’t take into account that private schools can pick and choose whomever they want to enroll while public schools do not have that luxury. Have you taken into account that private schools might perform better in test scores because the students have a better social support in the community and the home? For example, a wealthier student might have a parent at home that would read to him or her, while a poorer student might not. Have you thought of that?
If we’re going to fix our public schools, we have to change the communities around them. There are ways to get the community involved in nurturing our public schools, such as encouraging parent involvement, getting to understand our students and where they are coming from. Yet instead of fixing the problem, you have to cherry-pick test scores without taking into account that often you’re comparing apples and oranges.
wITH A voucher system, there is no guarantee that they will cover the total tuition of the private school. I brought up a valid counterargument and you dismissed it with the mindless “liberals = tax” talking point. How are you going to make vouchers cover the FULL costs of tuition? So $5,000 vouchers a year covers not even HALF of the tuition. How are the folks going to come up with $7,000 to cover tuition? Mitty High School, a Catholic school in my area costs almost $13k. How are the people whom the voucher program is supposed to attract able to afford the almost $8k difference? You have not explained how the voucher system would help or how it would be funding. Oh, that’s right. We’ll take the money away from public schools and shift it to the private schools. Then you’ll run into the whole separation of church and state issue. How do you think a liberal might feel knowing his taxpayer dollars will be going to a Catholic school? Probably the same way a conservative might feel about his taxpayer dollars going to the public school system…
Kenneth, if it were up to me, the curriculum would NOT be watered down to satisfy the gung-ho America right or wrong mentality of the CONS. We are too sensitive about our history, and have reduced it down to a feel-good history that ignores what we have done in the name of Manifest Destiny. If we are going to give a America is great narrative, we have to balance it out with how America has fallen short of her ideals of freedom…
lASTLY, Where is the accountability for the private schools? How do you explain studies that overturn the conventional wisdom where public school students actually outperform private school students after adjusting for socioeconomic conditions? You note the better test scores but that may be from the fact that the private schools have students from households where the parents are better educated. Where is the accountability in a private school system where you might not even need a credential to teach? If you compare students from similar socioeconomic backgrounds, you’ll find the gap is virtually nil…and the public school students actually scored higher.
You conservatives can live by your myths in order to justify destroying the public school system, but I plan on teaching in a public school and doing my part instead of cutting and running like you conservatives love to do. It’s a lot harder but more rewarding than falling back on a mythical worldview that brought us WMDs in Iraq that are still to be found and the myth of the lazy and shiftless worker, the myth of the public school student thug…
November 28th, 2009 at 8:38 amIn case my posts don’t show because they’re eaten or something, here goes…Reform the tests and then we’ll discuss merit pay…Get away from the mindless multiple choice questions and do more problem solving and analysis…and have questions that take into account the diverse learning styles of our students.
When it comes to merit pay, how will you make sure it is incorruptible and immune from cronyism?
November 28th, 2009 at 9:18 amMerit pay is usually tied to test scores, but what happens when the test scores become the measure-all solution to measuring how effective a teacher or a school is? Teachers teach to the test even more than they are doing, when they should be teaching critical-thinking skills like analysis and elaboration. Maybe if you reform the tests first, you can go for merit pay, but there are other problems with the whole premise. Test scores do not take into account test anxiety from students who might be excellent students but cannot take a test for their life. How is that the fault of the teacher if the student knows their content but loses it in the pressure-situation of the test? I’ve been there, and done that. We need to teach critical thinking in our schools, but it seems that politicians do not want this, as a questioning populace is dangerous.
Anyways, I’m surprised you linked to a socialist publication, but have you noticed that people have noted that a drastic takeover by a mayor has not worked out well in other cities?
This is what you refuse to see when you see test scores. A family that has a father or mother making 6-figures and the other spouse staying home to read to the children or help them with their homework will have a high advantage over a household where both parents work. The thing No Child Left Behind is doing right is focusing on afterschool programs like the YMCA’s that help fill the void. But instead of looking to solutions such as these, you would rather blame the schools themselves or the teacher’s unions because they are easy scapegoats for the conservative agenda.
If you’re suggesting that since a Democrat supports vouchers with the implication that I too as a supposed Democrat (I am NOT) should fall in line as well? Hell, I understand that the GOP has a hard time getting past the sheep mentality, but Democrats support a variety of diverse views, some not traditionally considered orthodox by Democrats such as these.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:43 amRefugees from the Viet Nam War…the so called “Boat People”..have settled in some of the poorest Urban School Districts..with the worst performing,under funded, overcrowded schools in the Nation….yet their children score at the top in college entrance exams..many winning full scholarships to pretigious Universities.
IMHO… this is because these families VALUE Education. They are amazed that Public Schools are Free to all, and they make sure that their children take full advantage of it.
After school, these kids all sit around the kitchen table, with the older kids helping the younger ones… until they Master their lessons.
This is what is missing in far too many American Families.
The first lesson any school child should learn is “Why am I here?” Without that…and parents ( or someone) insisting that their children Understand the Value of being Educated, then it is all too easy to fall behind. and be left behind by our overstreched educational system.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:18 amUSCKitty,
My hat’s off to you in conversing with Kenneth. For the most part I don’t have the will to try to convert people far too set in there ways. It’s usually just a dead end.
I appreciated all your points though, they are right on.
And as for Badger, maybe the boat people you refer too study so hard because they know what it’s like to STARVE. Or perhaps you agree with that Florida congresswoman who said hunger is a good motivator. Maybe we could do away with school lunches and public assistance and then the kids would study harder so they could have something to eat.
By the way, alot of those dispossed kids ended up in gangs.
November 28th, 2009 at 2:40 pmKitty,
Wow! That is quite the dissertation you wrote – and you made some very valid points.
I’ve worked in the education industry for the last 20+ years and I can also state that Kenneth made some valid points as well.
A lot of student performance depends on where the students derive from (what socioeconomic background they have) and how involved their parents are in their educational performance. That being said, a lot of parents whose students are in the bottom quartile (in performance) – simply do not care. And, I’m not sure what we’re suppose to do with them. That continues to be a big mystery and I have extensive conversations with all levels of educators about it from Teachers to Principals to Superintendents and they don’t know either. They all agree that there is no “silver bullet”…
I can also tell you that a part of the problem are teachers who have been in the system for a long time and are there to get a paycheck rather than educate students. And getting rid of a bad teacher is a lot more complicated that you might think – I’ve seen them be reassigned to the media center or “promoted” to some other clerical role… (Title 1 Coordinator, Resource Teacher, etc) Average burnout for a “good” teacher is 7 years…
As for the high-stakes tests – yes, some students have an aversion to test taking – some don’t. It averages out. The content of the test is largely based upon the “frameworks” from each state that teachers were suppose to be teaching but many just ignored for years and years – hence, the “accountability” move. Yeah, the teachers hate the test but those frameworks have been around for a hundred years or more. Is it fair to dump in the scores of Special Education & ESL students – probably not – and that needs to be addressed…
I will say this though, – “competition breeds excellence” – and if public schools had to compete with the FTE dollars with some other form of educational institution then everyone (Schools & Districts) would get a lot more serious…
Vote it down – vote it up – whatever – it’s what I’ve seen on a first hand basis.
November 28th, 2009 at 4:35 pm#107
USCKitty says:
So what are you going to do Kenneth? Destroy the public school system? It seems that conservatives would love nothing better for a system where students would have to pay to get educated.
Destroy the public schools? Absolutely not! But, where is the problem with the system? Is it the Teachers? Is is the School Boards? Is it the parents? Is it the kids? Is it the Principal? Is it the bureaucracy?
Let’s do some critical thinking here as you suggest and troubleshoot the problem. I personally think the problem is so deep and fixed in the bureaucracy that unless someone is given complete power over the School Boards, protected union teacher organizations, parents and other power brokers that the system will continue to languish in mediocrity forever.
Starting with the parents – if they don’t see the value in a good education and push their children accordingly it doesn’t matter what is done. Then only the motivated will succeed and you will continue to have this hugh gap in our socioeconomic society.
This is not a Democrat/Republican problem. This is United States of America problem. So, how do you fight the trenched in politicians? How to you overcome the protective Teachers Unions? How do you motivate parents? How do you overcome single mindset School Boards?
I say give someone complete power to make sweeping changes school by school. Like hiring a consultant to review a companies bottom line of productivity from expenses to output.
Review each school and fire where necessary and analyze each department for productivity and make immediate changes for excellence.
Using pro football as an example: if the team doesn’t show a winning season, the coach and/or his staff will be fired, players will be let go, players will be hired, players will be drafted and changes will be made. I don’t think we have the fortitude or political will to do that.
What do you suggest?
November 28th, 2009 at 6:18 pmUSCKitty,
November 28th, 2009 at 6:24 pmWhat motivated you to get a good education?
Thanks jagman for the excellent post…You’ve brought up some issues that I had not even thought about and I appreciate that. I think I did not give Kenneth enough credit though, and I was defensive at times…
November 28th, 2009 at 6:55 pmJagman, perhaps some parents may seem not to care, I do not question your observations. But if so, we need to find out why they do not care. Is it because they feel unwelcome in the schools? Is it because they feel that they are only communicated with if something bad happens with their student? Does the interaction with the students and parents trend positive or negative? Or are they simply too burned out by work to even make an effort to support their students? How do we engage these parents in order to get them to emotionally invest in the education of their children? I really feel that in order to work with them, we have to understand where they are coming from.
How do we work with teachers who just want to make the
paycheck and leave? How do we change the environment of the school so that both sides feel as if they are partners instead of the teacher-student antagonism that both sides may feel? These are valid questions you brought up and this is something I’ll have to look into the research.
I really feel that there also needs to be reform when it comes to the tests. Make it more varied with different kinds of questions at least. There is nothing to suggest that a poetry reading cannot be audio, some students might be better able to identify tone and analyze a poem if they hear it. There are other types of problems that could be on the test. We need to also assess formal writing as well much as my school district is. If we are going to use the tests for accountability, let’s make them fairer for everyone.
Kenneth, I see your point that we need accountability. Of course we do. However, maybe instead of pointing fingers like you and I are doing, we need to involve as many people as possible: parents, students themselves, teachers, principals, community members, etc. However, I question the advantages of a top-down system. Personally I would rather have the community be the basis of the change and rather have the community engaged. Perhaps if we get the neighborhoods engaged and the students engaged in the neighborhoods to encourage the emotional investment to both, maybe we can start somewhere. We should have more school-site meetings where everyone is involved: parents, teachers, and the administration, and even the students. They need to have a say in what goes on in the school community.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:07 pmKenneth, if we are going to talk about accountability in the public schools, we should talk about it in the private schools. I literally cringe when people at my church tell me I can teach at some private schools without a credential. (Maybe it’s my bias speaking). Maybe there needs to be a movement within the private schools to require that the teachers be certified. Some require certification, some do not…
November 28th, 2009 at 7:11 pmUSCKitty says:
Kenneth, if we are going to talk about accountability in the public schools, we should talk about it in the private schools. I literally cringe when people at my church tell me I can teach at some private schools without a credential. (Maybe it’s my bias speaking). Maybe there needs to be a movement within the private schools to require that the teachers be certified. Some require certification, some do not…
Seriously, why do have this hangup on teachers being certified? What if the teaching results were positive and the teacher taught from experiences and life lessons?
What if retired persons of industry with vast experiences could credibly teach their particular skill set? Accounting! Management! Engineering!Sciences! etc.
I am a amateur historian on the American West from Lewis & Clark to 1900. I have traveled every mile of the Oregon Trail from Independence, MO to Oregon City, OR. Every mile of the California Trail to Sacramento,CA. My book collection on the West exceeds 200. I could teach kids stuff they never even thought or heard of. Does that count?
November 28th, 2009 at 8:15 pmIt should…but still I think there needs to be some balance between public and private. Make both accountable…
November 28th, 2009 at 10:33 pmKenneth, have you thought of becoming a professional historian? Maybe you can go back to school and get that Ph.D…
I think if we are to hold the public schools accountable, we have to do the same for the private schools as well without assuming that they are better automatically. If teachers have to be certified to teach in a public school, they should be required to teach in private school as well. If private school students are exempt from state tests in other tests, perhaps they should not be.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:25 amKitty,
I think a lot of these parents were in public schools when they were growing up – at the same socioeconomic level as they are now and did not see the value of a good education, hence their lack of concern.
One of the few things that I saw that worked (and you’re not gonna like this) is bringing in religious leaders to talk to parents – somehow, someway, those religious leaders got through to the parents and stressed the importance of making good grades. Add to that a STRONG administration at the school and you might have a recipe for success – at least at inter city Elem schools… It will have to be a community effort to turn it around but if its not done in 3-4 years then that school should be shut down and the parents forced, by law, (children have to go to school) to get involved in their child’s education. Whether that is a voucher program or something else, set a deadline, and let the parents know it’s up to them. Sometimes tough love goes a long way. (And that is straight from the mouth of a black principal at an inter city Elem school).
As for teachers, – the ones that are there for a paycheck should be given the option of “re-education” or dismissal and the teachers union needs to back off and let the Administration do their job. Some of these teachers have 5 more years left before they retire and they’ve been doing things their way for 25 years and they aren’t going to buy into any new ideas and they know that it will take “divine intervention” to get rid of them… End tenure. The teachers union needs to start working WITH Administration to weed out bad teachers and protect good ones – they need to realize that its not about their “dues” – it’s about good quality education. Ending tenure will go a long way…
As for the tests and different ways of administrating that: it’s already happening in a lot of places. Sometimes parts of the test are READ to the students and then they are asked to answer the questions. Do you know how much staff time that takes – it’s immense… Can it be done with technology? Sometimes, but schools don’t have the $ for new programs or computers because many of them have already earmarked their dollars for other things that may or may not work… (more staff in Title 1, etc)
Accountability – if public $$ are being sent to private schools then there HAS to be accountability in those private schools – period. They are going to have measure up to the same standards that the public schools are plagued with. (Read: endless paperwork)
FYI – there is NO substitute for a highly motivated CERTIFIED teacher in a classroom – none whatsoever – period – no, make that double period… :)
Retired professionals teaching in public schools would be a God-send – getting the teachers at the schools to accept them would be another matter altogether. #1 priority of a group of Superintendents that I spoke with recently – highly qualified math and science teachers… Think about that for a second – it wasn’t test scores or graduation rates (all important) – it was highly qualified math and science teachers – could retired professionals fill that gap – YES! Would the teachers and the politicians and the union let them? Probably not
The system needs serious reform – from the top down AND the bottom up…
November 29th, 2009 at 11:06 amActually, I do not really have a problem as much as you might think of getting the faith-based community involved as long as faith-based organizations and individuals agree to support the school and align the goals of their involvement with that of the school’s. Yes there is a worry about I really think the YMCA’s Afterschool program is the ideal model that we can look to in order to fill in the void that our schools face. They seek alignment with the school’s goals and curriculum and focus on the student’s classwork with health and fitness. Because they have a background with fitness with all of their programs like swimming and sports, they focus on having their staff learn the standards and work together with the teachers to synchronize what they are doing with what the kids are doing in class. As long as the boundaries between both faith-group and school are respected and that there are no instances of proselytizing…The schools need all the help they can get…
Of course, personally I really would feel more comfortable if the effort was on an individual basis…
We have a lot of professionals at USC in the Masters of Art in Teaching Program and I agree that it is encouraging to see them want to help out in the schools. I really think that school districts should reach out to any professionals looking into getting a credential. Combine a professional with the proper certification and yes, we have a win-win situation.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:25 pmSo, it has been confirmed that the Center for American Progress is indeed in the veal pen as it comes out in favor of “triggers.”
Does Rahm’s lips move when you speak?
November 29th, 2009 at 1:48 pmKill the “health care reform” proposals now in Congress. Regroup. Start working on Single Payer.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:25 pmKenneth
Dont you get tired of being so stupid? Dont you get tired of being made a fool of everytime you show how stupid you are by posting your bone ignorance for the world to see? Shouldnt you just STFU and stop humliating yourself?
December 4th, 2009 at 6:14 am