Obama Advisers Soften Afghanistan Timetable, Suggest U.S. Troops May Not Pull Out In 2011
Obama Advisers Soften Afghanistan Timetable, Suggest U.S. Troops May Not Pull Out In 2011
In his Afghanistan policy address last week, President Obama said we would “begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in July of 2011.” In a series of in-depth profiles of the behind-the-scenes conversations that took place in the lead-up to this pronouncement, the Washington Post and New York Times report that the President wanted a strategy to get in and get out.
“The military was told to come up with a plan to send troops quickly and then begin bringing them home quickly,” the Times writes. “He had asked for a plan to deploy and pull out troops quickly,” writes the Post. Looking at a bell curve that laid out the timetable for the deployment and withdrawal of U.S. troops, Obama reportedly told his advisers: “I want this pushed to the left.” The Times writes, “In other words, the troops should be in sooner, then out sooner.”
But as administration officials touted the President’s Afghanistan strategy this morning on the Sunday political talk shows, they underscored that the U.S. troops may not be coming home in 2011:
Gen. David Petraeus: “There’s no timeline, no ramp, nothing like that.” [Fox News Sunday]
National Security Adviser James Jones: “It is not a cliff. It is a glide slope. And so certainly, the President has also said we are not leaving Afghanistan.” [CNN State of the Union]
Defense Secretary Robert Gates: “Well, first of all, I don’t consider this an exit strategy. And I try to avoid using that term. I think this is a transition.” [ABC This Week]
Watch a compilation:
On Meet the Press, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said, “We’re not talking about an exit strategy or a drop dead deadline.” Gates added, “We will have a significant — we will have 100,000 forces — troops there. And they are not leaving — in July of 2011.”
Jones also told the BBC, “In no manner, shape or form is the United States leaving Afghanistan in 2011.” Afghan President Hamid Karzai is also making a push to soften the timetable. He told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour that “if it takes longer [than 2011], they must be with us.”
Notably, Vice President Joe Biden — who was reportedly a skeptic of the escalation strategy — did not appear on political talk shows to tout the new strategy. Biden did sign his name to an e-mail sent to Obama supporters last week saying he believes it is a “focused strategy that can succeed.”
On CBS’s “Face the Nation,” Gates insisted that the specific date was “firm,” but said that just how many troops would come home at that point would be determined by the country’s progress. “What is conditions based is the pacing at which our troops will come home and the pace at which we will turn over responsibility to the Afghans,” Gates said.
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Here we go again . Same old , same old ain’t gonna work . How much does 1 gallon of gas cost in Kabul ?
December 6th, 2009 at 10:57 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
OSTL:
December 6th, 2009 at 11:05 amNone of this really matters to you. What matters is that you get attention. Please show more respect for the troops. They are not pawns of you social alienation and maladjustment…
OSTL:
December 6th, 2009 at 11:07 amYour quotes are worth nothing since you make them up at will. Still haven’t found that fish cleaning quote have you? You are a fraud and a pussy one at that and I am your worst nightmare. Sucks to be you…
So will you be settling on a topic today? I think not. I think you will fiddle f uck around. You lack the intellect and the sincere principles to do anything other…
December 6th, 2009 at 11:08 amThe underlying message that we are tying to convey to the Afghanistan people is that we are occupying your nation.
The Repubs of course would be willing to spend decades there (as long as they don’t have to go) and spend trillions…
December 6th, 2009 at 11:08 amClose your piehole, for your own good!
December 6th, 2009 at 11:09 am—
CLOSE IT FOR ME PUSSY!
You can’t and you won’t. However I will jerk you around at will…
OSTL
December 6th, 2009 at 11:13 amWhat do you think should be the policy in Afghanistan? You are here for reasons other than attention right?
Dyslexic LOST:
you’ve shown us what happens when campaign rhetoric hits reality. To prove Obama lied, you’d have to have something more, something showing that he knew at the time that he could not extricate the troops out of the mess that President Bush got them into.
By the way, we still have troops in Germany, Italy, and Japan, and WWII ended over 60 years ago.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:15 amOSTL… Do you disagree with the decision our President made, or are you just here to disrespect him? And, yes the answer to this matters in how I treat your posts now and in the future. Thanks.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:16 amWell?
—
December 6th, 2009 at 11:17 amSince you premised is already flawed I think we might have to go back and look at the actual words used. I realize you prefer to make up quotes and interpret things you wish but I think the word “begin” is the key. The word “lie” is one of your creation…
Off=Topic, but the Democrats do know how to get something done when they really want to.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:17 amFor context, read Peter Baker’s article “How Obama Came to Plan for ‘Surge’ in Afghanistan”. You know what context is, right OSTL?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/world/asia/06reconstruct.html?_r=1&hp
December 6th, 2009 at 11:17 amzathrus
December 6th, 2009 at 11:19 am—
Poser won’t answer. They are just the endless annoying dysfunctional kid with daddy’s cb. Amusing to poke yet utterly devoid of substanitive ideas.
What diversion? I pointed out that the fundamental queston is flawed. You have failed to show a lie has been made by the president. You aren’t very good at this are you?
December 6th, 2009 at 11:25 amFor context, see: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29083534/page/4/
… MR. GREGORY: The issue of troops is what everybody’s focused on, certainly politically, when troops come home. This is what President Obama said before he was president, on the campaign trail. This is October 2007.
(Videotape, October 27, 2007)
PRES. OBAMA: I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home, we will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: And yet by July of 2008 on the campaign trail, he spoke about it somewhat differently.
(Videotape, July 3, 2008)
PRES. OBAMA: My 16-month timeline, if you examine everything that I’ve said, was always premised on making sure that our troops were safe. And my guiding approach continues to be that we’ve got to make sure that our troops are safe and that Iraq is stable.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: You write in the book that Obama will be torn between what his supporters expect and what his generals advise.
MR. RICKS: I think that’s right, and I think we may see a confrontation between Obama and the generals by the end of this year. American voters, many of them, think we’re going to be out of Iraq in 16 months; when he talks about having combat troops out of Iraq, that somehow no more Americans troops will die. Well, the news flash for Obama here is there are not such thing as noncombat troops. We don’t have a pacifist wing of the U.S. military. All our troops are ready for combat. We’re going to have American troops fighting and dying there for many years to come. What General Odierno says in the book is he would like to see 35,000 American troops there in 2015.
MR. GREGORY: In 2015.
MR. RICKS: Yeah. So, which means that Obama’s war in Iraq may be longer than Bush’s war in Iraq. So bottom line here, I think Iraq is going to change Obama more than Obama changes Iraq.
MR. GREGORY: Where are troop levels now?
MR. RICKS: We’re about 155,000.
MR. GREGORY: And when do we get to that bottom-out level of 30, 35,000 that Odierno’s talking about?
MR. RICKS: Well, that’s going to be the fight all year long. When do you come down? How fast do you come down? Do you come down a brigade a month, as Obama indicated on the campaign trail? Or do you plateau it out this year and then bring it down early 2010? No matter when you do it, though, you’re going to come to a point where the generals are going to say, “You know, this is not something I really want to do here. This is dangerous. We’re taking troops out of a place where things are going to start breaking loose.”
MR. GREGORY: But that’s the question, which is how much danger do Americans face? Because what you write in the book about the surge is that it was the first time that Iraqis took the lead in this war effort. If U.S. troops are there, but they are not in harm’s way in the same manner than they’ve been before, perhaps Americans can live with that long-term commitment. Do you expect that’ll be the case?
MR. RICKS: If you’re in Iraq, you’re in harm’s way, first of all. The second thing is I think people here–and this is a major theme of the book–people here don’t understand quite how tough the surge was. Those first six months of 2007 were the hardest six months of the war, and it was a near-rung thing. The generals who were there were not confident it was going to succeed. There were several months there–April, May, June 2007–where U.S. casualties are increasing, no signs of success. So one of the last things they want to do is roll the dice again and say, “Sure, you know, it might not–it might blow up in our faces, but let’s try it.” No, they feel they have made huge sacrifices, that they have had friends die and sons bleed, and that they don’t want to throw that all away on the–you know, because some guy said on the campaign trail, “We’re going to get all these guys out.” …
December 6th, 2009 at 11:25 amI’m so tired of the Republicans still being in charge.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:26 amTo me the end date is nonsense. When you feel you’ve done as much as you can to hand the country over, then you leave. In the meantime, the troops who are there need as much military support and back-up as we can give them. You can’t start a war and not end it. For those who are against the president’s decision, when exactly was the date I wonder when they decided not to fight them any longer? Have they become war weary? I can understand that. None of us like war for heaven’s sakes.
I was against the Iraq invasion but supported the Bush Administration’s surge. You cannot just up and leave. I feel the same way about Afghanistan. If we leave now, we will have to go back at some point if al Qaeda is allowed to set up shop again in Afghanistan. Who wants that?
We need to finish what we started. Now. And then leave, for good. If the Taliban and al Qaeda are still a threat, then the president was left with very few options.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:28 amWhy isn’t the OSTLhole serving in Iraq or Afghanistan right now?
December 6th, 2009 at 11:29 amOSTL’s mental health prevents OSTL from serving OSTL’s nation. Besides OSTL is not a real person but only a stupid characature created to try and give a lonely person who doesn’t fit in a chance for belonging…
December 6th, 2009 at 11:33 amTôi hy vọng Afghanistan là không trở thành một Việt Nam.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:37 amWhile none of us is happy to hear of an increase in Afghanistan and the slower-than-hoped withdrawal from Iraq, don’t we all have to be realistic? Logistically, removing our troops from Iraq is on schedule for an orderly withdrawal. Were we to withdraw precipitously and events on the ground go sour, we would be blamed; an orderly, planned removal lessens that possibility. In Afghanistan, Obama said we would start to remove troops in July of 2011 – that’s about a year too late for my preference, but if we simply withdraw and the AQ forces regroup against America, it would be Obama’s albatross; Obama has taken the least worst of options available. It may or may not succeed; it is not what we would have hoped, but events on the ground have been fluid since the campaign words were spoken, and a realistic person must see that.
Gitmo is going to be closed, certainly, but because it is a few months behind schedule, why is that considered a lie?
I think we had eight years of lying, defiling of the Constitution, and illegal activity — to accuse Obama of behaving like Bush is pretty stupid, even for a troll, who can never offer anything for debate, but simply comes here to leave his droppings.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:41 am29
December 6th, 2009 at 11:55 amI am not sure I buy it but I did hear the argument made that the biggest difference between the events in Vietnam as to the events in Afghanistan is that Vietnam in no way was connected to any attack nor any potential attack on American interests…
George Bush once said that “WITHDRAWAL WILL BE FOR FUTURE PRESIDENTS TO DECIDE, FUTURE IRAQ PM’S TO DECIDE”.
What a cowardice money laundering right wing conservative lazy no testicles PIG!
December 6th, 2009 at 12:01 pmAnd he meant the same for Afgahnistan! George Bush did nothing for the 8 years of his tenure which was all the plan for him. He and Dickey knew if they could stave off progress it would fall to future presidents, so they could not be blamed.
I hate them.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:02 pmJust another tragic example of Obama having to clean up Bush’s Republican mess. Republicans create chaos then complain, obstruct, and lie as Democrats try to clean it up.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:09 pmIt seems the trend of ideas for Afghanistan is to stabilize the country by removing the Taliban and al Qaeda threat. Gear up the military and go hunting.
So, when they are all dead (an extremely unlikely outcome) can we then add ethnic cleansing to our list of accomplishments? It would fit nicely with torture, extraordinary rendition, unending detention without trial, abolishing habeus corpus and spying on our own population.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:12 pmIt’s obvious that Obama is not running the show. He’s getting his orders from the real rulers of this country who profit from eternal war. If he goes against the wishes of those who voted for him, worst thing to happen would be not getting relected. If he threaten the profits of the masters of war, we could end up with Biden as president.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:30 pmIts a pity there isn’t a single person in Washington who took any history courses, even at the high school level. Otherwise they might realize that US ‘friendly’ regimes backed by US money or guns have never succeeded. Nor is it possible for the US to convince a native population of their excellent intentions while they are bombing and shooting the crap out of the local landscape.
We need to wake up and realize we have no business meddling in any other country’s internal government and our very presence only makes things worse.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:33 pmAs a Liberal who voted for “change” all I am seeing from Obama is more of the same. Heck that speech on Afghanistan sounded like Bush. I am very disappointed with Obama from his economic team all the way to his disasterous plans with Afghanistan. Obama is not “change we can beleive in”. Sorry if this post offends other Liberals on this site. I have had it with both the Democrats and Republicans though. Obama is nothing more than a corporate whore who pretended to be a liberal in the campaign. I hope he is a one term president. I am tired of working my ass off for these Democrats only to be left alone at the dance. Good day all…
December 6th, 2009 at 12:35 pmThe messages are always mixed and confusing. President Obama says one thing publicly and the White House staff say something different. So far, the President’s statements have mostly been accurate and the White House staff have mostly been wrong.
Besides, the President is the Commander-in-Chief and the final military decisions are made by him and not General ‘betrayus’ Petraeus.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:36 pmThe heinous troll doesn’t care about the troops. He’ll use them just the way Bush and Cheney did to meet their own political/financial agenda. The all disgust me.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:40 pmClose Gitmo, get out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Chasing down terrorist threats to our nation requires good police work and well-paid informers.
Why can’t we take a fraction of the money being spent on these insane wars and offer bounties for the capture of the malefactors?
How can we gain any sort of goodwill or cooperation with countries whose innocent civilians are being killed or maimed by our nation, with their properties and their livelihoods in ruins?
December 6th, 2009 at 12:42 pmKansasLiberal? I don’t think so.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:42 pmPresent US policy in Iraq and Afghanistan reminds me of the defense used by a man who beats his wife. Says he has to because its the only way she will listen to him. Its for her own good.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:45 pmIn war, even under the best of circumstances, there are frequently gaps between what is wanted, what is planned for, and what actually happens. I’m not particularly dissatisfied as long as we have follow-through on pulling out of Iraq and if it looks like we have some sort of success in Afghanistan.
I would measure success in Afghanistan by some sign that some of the Taliban are being co-opted by our side and that the Afghan government is able to start holding the line on its own. Having the troop numbers plateau next year and start dropping the year after would be good, but wars don’t always go the way any of the protagonists plan.
Slightly OT, but since the Vietnam debacle has been brought into the thread, I think it’s worth noting that another significant difference is that we’re not trying to push our own tactic and strategy into some big unit, European war paradigm, the way Westmoreland and company tried to push our tactics against the Vietnamese insurgeants and NVA units; we don’t seem to be spinning our wheels putting together division sized operations against someone that ain’t there.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:45 pmThe Pentagon should adopt this motto:
“You can catch more flies with honey.”
These two Bush/Cheney wars are nothing more than a testosterone patch for two Vietnam-era draft dodgers.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:49 pmShayne says:
——————————————————————————–
KansasLiberal? I don’t think so.
Why do you “not think so”? Is it because I am calling out Obama on his BS? I am not the kind that follows blindly because someone calls himself a Democrat. That is what Republicans do. When I see BS in the party I call them out on it and hold them accountable with my vote.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:52 pmOff topic, but fun:
Sarah Palin’s daddy says that she left her school in Hawaii after one semester because all those Asians there made her uncomfortable.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/06/palins-father-she-left-ha_n_381724.html
She liked Idaho more because there were lots more white folks, “real Americans”
December 6th, 2009 at 12:52 pmin her opinion.
Marie says:
——————————————————————————–
In Afghanistan, Obama said we would start to remove troops in July of 2011 – that’s about a year too late for my preference, but if we simply withdraw and the AQ forces regroup against America, it would be Obama’s albatross; Obama has taken the least worst of options available. It may or may not succeed; it is not what we would have hoped, but events on the ground have been fluid since the campaign words were spoken, and a realistic person must see that.
Gitmo is going to be closed, certainly, but because it is a few months behind schedule, why is that considered a lie?
I think we had eight years of lying, defiling of the Constitution, and illegal activity — to accuse Obama of behaving like Bush is pretty stupid, even for a troll, who can never offer anything for debate, but simply comes here to leave his droppings.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Obama’s albatross? Are the deaths we will suffer acceptable for political expediency? And “the situation on the ground is fluid?” How about the corrupt elections they just had? Doesn’t that count as changing the situation enough for Obama to change his position? Why are we committed to propping up a corrupt government that the people tried to vote out? Damn it! I feel like I’m reading redstate. Shrub is history. We don’t make excuses for our leader’s mistakes. We hold them accountable unlike repugs. At least Thom Hartmann has a sane view on this issue. People are dying in Afghanistan! If that’s not reason enough, how about the multi-millions of dollars we will continue to spend there when we are bankrupt? The taliban isn’t going anywhere. They will overtake any sham government we leave in charge there. Remember the reasons for 9/11? And yet we continue to interfere in the affairs of other nations. We truly are a nation of fools.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:57 pm@ 35. Hoodathunk says: It seems the trend of ideas for Afghanistan is to stabilize the country by removing the Taliban and al Qaeda threat. Gear up the military and go hunting. So, when they (Taliban and alQaeda) are all dead (an extremely unlikely outcome) can we then add ethnic cleansing to our list of accomplishments? … December 6th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
I agree that it’s extremely unlikely that getting all of those guys into a dead state of being will occur.
As for ethnic cleansing, we already have a respectable number of atrocities. I haven’t heard of very many large scale deliberate war crime type atrocities, yet, setting aside the larger point that war is a crime and an atrocity. The current atrocities mostly seem to be the usual kinds of stupidity, like that business of bombing the crowd around those two stolen fuel tankers on the assumption that the crowd was mostly Taliban.
Doing what we can to kill as many Taliban as we can may be into the ethnic cleansing range – after all, they’re mostly Pushto or Pashtun or whatever the hell the name of their group is. AlQeada though seems to be a multinational affair, so we can kill all of them without edging toward genocide; what’s more, they won’t be missed (but you can bet that some pack of arseholes will try to take their place).
December 6th, 2009 at 1:02 pmTo say that the Bush/Cheney administration did NOTHING in Afghanistan for 7 plus years, is being Way too Generous…they Did REAL DAMAGE.
Newsweek ran a cover story, about a month ago…featuring Interviews of the Taliban..in their own words.
After Kabul fell to the Northern Alliance/US Special Forces, the Taliban was Defeated, Demoralized, and on the Run.
Why don’t the Taliban Fight in Winter??? They Don’t Have BOOTS, and their sandals are too slippery to negotiate the Steep Mountain Passes when it is wet!
By diverting attention and resources to the war in Iraq, Bush allowed the Taliban to Escape , Recover, and Perfect their Insurgency skills.
By Not Insisting that the Corrupt Karzai Govt. begin a serious rebuilding effort, the Taliban Gained Public support.
Our troops are Now paying the Price
December 6th, 2009 at 1:04 pmKarzai does have a killer wardrobe.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:06 pmVP, that is sort of my point. Where does the killing end? We know it begins when rational people start believing that killing off all the enemy is a tidy way to solve problems. What the heck, nobody is going to miss them.
And people wonder why they hate us.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:08 pmTo accuse Obama of behaving like Bush is pretty stupid?
Well first watch this comparison of Bush and Obama on Afghanistan by none other than Jon Stewart.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/12/03/jon-stewart-rips-obamas-afghanistan-surge-speech
Secondly: Obama has put the nations finanacial institutions into the same hands that created this mess! If that isn’t Bush I don’t know what is! Obama is a Corporate whore just like Bush was.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:09 pmWhen you start a post with the above, we already know you were never a liberal.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:11 pmBush made a mess of Afghanistan as well as Iraq. We are saddled with a corrupt government that for 8 years has had a free rein. Karzai and his pals have grabbed for as much money as they could and did nothing to build the country. Obama is stuck with this government and we (and our allies) are looking for a way out. I believe that Obama has given Karzai a deadline after which he is on his own. Unless Karzai starts to make major improvements, the countries in Afghanistan are going to withhold funds. That will probably lead to the government downfall and chaos again. Karzai realizes his vulnerability and the only issue now is whether he is going to clean up the government as well as his shady relationships.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:16 pmFred you are an asshat… How do you know if I am Liberal or not? Trust me you idiot I am a Liberal. I am not a stupid liberal though that follows. Like I said in an earlier post. When is see BS I call them out on it whether it is Repub or Democrat. And Obama needs to be called out on his BS. So does Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Max Baucus and the rest of the Democrats who act Republican Lite. But you think what you want Freddy Boy! By BTW my real name is Mark and I live in Kansas City Kansas. Kansas City Kansas is the only Democratic stronghold there is in the state of Kansas. Lawrence is mostly Democrat but not near the size of Kansas City Kansas. I am a Howard Dean Liberal.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:17 pmSo tell me Freddy…. Are you getting the “change” you voted for?
December 6th, 2009 at 1:19 pmKansasLiberal, all of that may be true but stop telling me that Obama is just like bush.
You’re not being objective or your lying. Simple as that.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:26 pmpags2 says:
……We are saddled with a corrupt government that for 8 years has had a free rein. Karzai and his pals have grabbed for as much money as they could and did nothing to build the country…..
Substitute a 9 for the “8″ and the American federal government for “Karzai and his pals” and this statement still would be accurate.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:31 pmI never said Obama is JUST like Bush. I said his speech about Afghanistan sounded like Bush. Although Obama is much better a pubic speaker than Bush could ever think of being. At least Obama looks and sounds Presidential. I provided you a link where Jon Stewart called out Obama on his BS that sounded like a Bush speech. I have nothing to lie about. I am a Liberal. I am not a Democrat or a Republican. I am a Liberal who voted for President Obama with hopes of change. And I am not getting or seeing the “change” that I voted for. Are you?
December 6th, 2009 at 1:33 pm@ 53. Hoodathunk says: VP, that is sort of my point. Where does the killing end? We know it begins when rational people start believing that killing off all the enemy is a tidy way to solve problems. What the heck, nobody is going to miss them. And people wonder why they hate us. December 6th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
I’ve no idea when or where the killing ends; given the usual human capacity for delusion and stupidity, I sometimes suspect that answer is never.
I’m not an advocate of killing all the enemy, I’m not even an advocate of killing most of the enemy. If there were actual governments in Afghanistan and Pakistan, governments that had control of the territory and the consent of their population, I’d advocate treating AlQaeda as the criminals they are; capture as many as possible, rehabilitate as many as possible, and bury or lock up the ones who can’t or won’t stop.
Strictly speaking, I don’t see the Taliban as our enemy; they’re a third party that was hosting AlQaeda. They, and various Afghani-Pakistani border area tribes are still hosting AlQaeda and interfering with the effort to put a stop to AlQaeda’s criminal (”terrorist”) activities. That puts the Taliban and their non-AlQaeda allies between us and those we need to stop; that isn’t good for either us or the Taliban, but that’s the situation we have to deal with.
AlQaeda is our enemy, however, and they bear the responsibility for making themselves that. I’d have been considerably less concerned about them if they’d restricted their activity to the states whose actual policies produced them, principally Saudi Arabia and Egypt. If they’d gone after the rulers there, or the instruments of state power there, they’d be of considerably less concern here and in Europe, but they apparently decided to be ‘big picture’ kinds of guys first and commit some really big armed propaganda.
I think they’ve gotten a bit more back than they thought they could handle, but there isn’t a satisfactory resolution to their existence yet.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:34 pmThe Presidency always forces whoever sits in the Oval Office towards policies that may contradict personal beliefs. It happened to Clinton but he was a slick enough politician to still get things done. It definitely happened to Carter who chose to do the best he could and then fade back. And it probably got JFK killed because he was willing to fight it and the system was new enough to resort to actual killing rather than the political sniping.
There are massive forces wrapped in national security, driven and funded by profit that are the cancerous entity Ike warned us about. I do not agree with the President’s decision but I can give him the benefit of the doubt and still say I have high hopes for his administration.
The game is afoot and it is the most dangerous and deadly one known. I hope he is up to the task.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:36 pmKansasLiberal, you have done nothing to establish your bona fides as such. Many of us are unhappy and say so but we have been around long enough that others know where we’re coming from. Many right wing troll use the tactic of pretending to be one of us. Only time will tell.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:36 pmOne thing I know is President Obama took so much time studying the situation in Afghanistan that the right wing accused him of dithering and harming the troops. It is amazing how many talking heads and average Joes think they know more about what to do than the president does. Obama is not Bush/Cheney. He hasn’t given us any reason to presuppose that his plan for Afghanistan is going to end badly. There is a chance that he knows what he’s doing better than the rest of us.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:43 pmKansasLiberal, yes, I am getting the change I voted for. I am not getting it at the pace I wanted. And I am concerned that there are areas where the change is very slow, there are policies I don’t understand or agree with. But I am seeing increased dialog, I am seeing an entire political party self destruct in a hilariously pathetic public fashion.
And I am seeing a public that is slowly becoming more aware. We can’t change the US in a year in a fashion that will undo 30 years of lies and degradation. We just get to start.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:46 pmI agree with Kansas Liberal…Far too many of the current crop of Dems behave more like repuke lites. The Dems and Independents I respect are Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, Alan Grayson, Ron Wyden, Anthony Weiner, Al Franken, Sherrod Brown and the late Ted Kennedy (there are others I cannot thinks of right now).
And please, can we stop calling them “wars”, when they are nothing more than invasions followed by occupations. Perhaps I’m going senile because I don’t remember war being declared on either Iraq or Afghanistan.
Bring the troops home and use the trillions here to feed and house the poor, provide quality single-payer healthcare to all, create jobs and to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:48 pmShayne, I agree. Another clue was her endictment of all democrats in power, not just Obama.
If kansas lib really thinks that Obama’s economic strategy is the same as what bush was doing then why is the economy turning around now after diving headlong into recession.
Do they honestly believe that if bush had stayed in office that the dow would be at 10,000 or that the loss of jobs would be stabilizing and all are optomistic that it will continue to improve?
I won’t even go into the absolute’s that Obama has helped happen in America.
Like Lillie Ledbetter. Do you think that bohner and bush would have made or rather let that happen? Of course not.
Iraq drawing down, not as fast as we want but faster than bush.
Stopped spying on Americans without a court order.
Closing of guantanamo. I know, slow, but would bush have ever done it?
Overall, Obama has restored hope that this country might finally move in a more positive direction on many fronts.
A lot of it is up to us, and yes, getting rid of some blue dogs in our primaries is something we will be doing. I don’t think there is much doubt.
This got a little long winded. It’s just too big a subject to put into a capsule and say “Obama = bush” or “reps = dems”
It’s really a ridiculous thing to say and no one should have to defend it.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:50 pmTwo words. Mission creap.
This, I’m afraid is Vietnam all over again. The Generals will agree with the President then, as soon as the press ink dries, start to whine that they need more time and more troops, more time and more troops, more time and more troops, more time and more troops, more time and more troops and we can “Win”.
Next thing you know we will have 500,000 troops in
Vietnam….errrr Afghanistan and soon after that a Wall in Washington honoring the fallen.Lt. Gen. Victor Krulak USMC (1913-2008): “I never got enthusiasm out of war, and I’m convinced that the true pacifists are the professional soldiers who have actually seen it.”
December 6th, 2009 at 1:52 pm.
All I can say is…
… Kucinich would not have surged.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Um20VoFaI
.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:54 pmIf I could sit down with President Obama over a beer tomorrow, I would tell him I don’t agree with his Afghan policy. I would tell him that spending billions of dollars we don’t have to fight an organization that is smaller and less of a threat to our country than the Mafia was is a poor choice. I would point out that spending us into bankruptcy in the name of national security is like screwing to preserve virginity.
He would probably give me that knowing smile, belch politely, and offer me another beer.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:59 pmEvery day I wake up thankful Obama is president and not that tag team of McGrumpy and Bible Spice. If you think the economy and foreign policy were in a bad place, just imagine if those 2 idiots were in charge.
That said, I am disappointed in Obama’s Afghanistan policy, though I am not surprised. He said during the campaign that he very well may increase troop numbers in Afghanistan. As a friend put it, we were hoping Obama was lying, he wasn’t.
Bush left Obama with so many messes it is ridiculous (and his failure in getting OBL when he had the chance is criminal neglect at best), but I don’t see how sending 30,000 troops into Afghanistan will accomplish anything except get more soldiers and Afghan civilians killed. The place is known as a graveyard of empires for a reason. And al-qaeda is in Pakistan anyway, they just moved across the border. We should just cut our losses already, and get out. If we get out now or 2011, what’s the difference, except more dead and maimed. The place will still be an ungovernable mess.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:00 pmWaste of money, waste of lives.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:01 pmWhile Obama may not be meeting the wishes of true progressives it would be wise for us to remember that a candidate can’t win with just the progressive vote. He needs independents to win and it is unfair of him to ignore their wishes once he’s in office just as it would be unfair for his to ignore all of ours. It progressives ruled the country Dennis Kucinich would be president.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:01 pmWith Fox spewing lies and the MSM corporate controlled we’re lucky that enough people could see their way clear to vote for Democrats to make a difference. And it is scary that Comcast is going to gain more control and has a real opportunity to stifle NBC. One has to wonder if that wasn’t their goal in purchasing that network as opposed to another.
It is foolhardy to believe that the average guy is exposed to the facts that those of us following TP and other comparable sites are. If we abandon our principles because all our needs aren’t being met we could end up with a much scarier administration.
Mission creep is a danger but there is no reason to think that it might turn into those kinds of numbers.
Really guys, Afganistan is not nam. For just one thing, other countries have 50,000 troops involved in it. That never happened in nam and it never happened in Iraq.
This has turned into a unilateral effort led by the US. These countries new found trust in the US.
The bottom line is that Obama had this dumped into his lap, just as with the economy, he gets a chance to do what he thinks is the right thing.
Pre-judging this situation now seems to be tainted with everyone saying Obama is doing just what bush would do. He is not.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:05 pmI don’t give two shits about Afghanistan or its citizens. If they want to live in an Islamic society it should be their prerogative to do so. Its not our responsibility to build their country, I’d rather those tax dollars be spent at home. The truth is that this “war” is all about Israel. The rethugs want to completely revamp the middle east in order to make it safer for Israel.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:05 pmI’m sick to death of all of it. The Repukkkes, Iraq, Afghanistan AND Irael. A fcuking plague on all their houses!!
December 6th, 2009 at 2:21 pmis everyone as tired of the ostl troll as I am?
Anyone on board for just ignoring his stinky ass today?
December 6th, 2009 at 2:22 pmWho?
December 6th, 2009 at 2:22 pmI think this shows what Obama and we are up against. There is great momentum in the military industrial complex. For eight years, it got nothing but encouragement. It won’t be wound down now by wishing alone.
There is great power in the combination of ‘military’ and ‘industrial’, and with the great mobilization that was the ‘war on terror’, our military budget is now greater than the rest of the world combined. To my mind, most of the spending is waste; we are protecting ourselves from threats which pose a far smaller threat than we are lead to believe. But, the amount we spend on the military and the industries which feed it, give them considerable political power. And, I don’t think this power is on our side.
I can accept that this power may take some time to counteract. Peace, justice and prosperity are our best tools.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:22 pmAnyone on board for just ignoring his stinky ass today?
—
December 6th, 2009 at 2:23 pmI suggest that. Just leave the little one to me. If OSTL knows I am the only option OSTL will not appear.
Geez…has it gotten to the point on this forum that someone new is guilty of being a troll until proven innocent? I have been around here for years and have been knocked (or voted down) from time to time for not being Obama-enough. How many times have I seen right-wing dittoheads get accused of walking in “lock-step” with the rest of the conservative dooshnozzles? But when a self-proclaimed liberal posts something uncomplimentary about Obama’s policies, thereby not walking in lockstep with the president or the Democratic party, he/she is derided for doing so.
Nobody on the planet hates Bush more than I do. I was solidly on the Obama bandwagon once John Edwards bowed out. I voted for Obama. I celebrated his victory. That being said, I am less than thrilled with the direction of his polices since inauguration day. The end of the Iraq/Afghanistan occupations and the closing of Gitmo can’t come soon enough for me. The day of universal, single-payer healthcare can’t come soon enough for me. Quality education for all can’t come soon enough for me. The list goes on and on. However, all of these things have been kept way down the corporatist/political priority list and I don’t see that changing as long as we continue to flush trillions away to occupy, kill and maim in foreign countries.
Nope, this isn’t the change I believed in, or voted for either. And no, I don’t expect everything to be fixed in Obama’s first year. But I think things could, at least, be heading in that direction by now.
However, I think I’m pragmatic enough to realize that there is a very good possibility that it no longer matters who is the president, which party is in the majority in Congress. I think that ship may have already sailed. Under our current political model, a politician likely must be , in my opinion, “bought and paid for” in order to even get into a position of possibly getting elected. It may already be too late for “we the people”. But if I’m wrong and it isn’t too late, giving the president and congress years of latitude to do the people’s bidding is putting us on the fast track to getting to the point of “too late”.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:23 pmSo OSTL:
December 6th, 2009 at 2:24 pmSeems it is time for me to “clean” and “gut” you one last time….
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
OSTL:
December 6th, 2009 at 2:30 pmSpare everyone the bullshit and let’s get at it shall we my little pussy friend….
Exit Stage Left what you say is sadly true. The good news is theses past months have shown us things that thinking Americans would do well to take to heart. We have learned that the entire Republican contingent in Congress is bought and paid for and marches in lockstep for party over country.
We have learned just how many of the Dems are also infected with the disease and need to be weeded out through the election process.
We have also learned that lobbyists, big business and special interests have become a driving factor in our political discourse and view profit over benefit as their primary goal.
These things are now glaringly obvious and it is up to every citizen to stand up and fight this encroachment on our government.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:31 pmHERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN, nice, where did you plagarize it from?
What do you “think”
December 6th, 2009 at 2:33 pmAh, Afghanistan. Why do we bother? No-one wins there.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:33 pmBeg for attention while standing for nothing…
the OSTL mantra…
Let’s go pussy I don’t have all day. Tell us of your deep convictions… Goals and objectives lame ass. Goals and Objectives…. Your older sister is so so embrarassed by you. The Soloist you aren’t….
December 6th, 2009 at 2:35 pmUKBristolDave01 says:
Ah, Afghanistan. Why do we bother? No-one wins there.
Kind of telling, isn’t it? Everyone goes on about tribal this and uncivilized that and yet they have embarrassed and defeated every major empire they went up against.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:36 pmObama explicitly said he intended to begin a draw-down in 2011. I seriously don’t know why it keeps happening that people hear completely different words than the ones that come out of his mouth. And there’s a world of difference between planning to reduce forces and refusing to set any kind of time table whatsoever out of fear. I never expected Obama to instantly end all war, though some liberals apparently did. However, just saying “we’re going to try to start pulling people out at around this time” is a vast improvement over “we must stay the course” and “time tables embolden terrorists.” It’s the difference between having a plan and not having one.
That said, it looks like he should have gotten together with Clinton, McChristal, Gates, Petraus, etc. and made sure they were all on the same page in understanding exactly what was intended and how to communicate it prior to making the speech.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:39 pmOSTL
December 6th, 2009 at 2:40 pmWill you or will you not have a focused discussion about a topic with me? If not why not? Let’s go loser step up. Even old school hip hop fans seem like pussies to me…
OSTL says:
Do you ever tire of being wrong?
Do you ever tire of projecting Koldys?
I’m sure plagiarizing Dick Morris lies means you believe “you” weren’t wrong. But you’d be wrong… LOL! ;)
December 6th, 2009 at 2:41 pmOSTL says:
Obama: “The first thing I will do as President is get our troops home. Take that to the bank.”
He was specifically referring to Iraq. You know. The country we’re withdrawing from?
December 6th, 2009 at 2:42 pmOSTL says:
“Tow party line or get voted down and called names.” tp mantra
Teabagging projection b*llsh*t from Koldys the lying “thief” d**chebag.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:43 pmIf Koldys/OverlyStupidTeabbagingLunatic could focus, she wouldn’t have had to give up her political career due to that unfortunate “sexual” incident… LOL!
December 6th, 2009 at 2:44 pmNow about that quote about cleaning fish? Are you ready to admit that you made it up? See the thing is that I won’t let go. I actually like catching little fish like you. In your case however I intend to rip your gills out along with the hook….
December 6th, 2009 at 2:44 pmdbadass’s troll had no facts? Shocking!
He just makes it too easy doens’t he just the bleepn?
December 6th, 2009 at 2:45 pmNo surprise here. When we hear government officials say the withdrawal of our troops depends on conditions on the ground it means our troops will be their for a long time.
Even if we had a time line of 2011 you just know that something would happen that would sway the administrations opinion to keep our troops stuck in that unwinable war. Whether the events were staged or real.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:50 pmKoldys is as stupid as Bush, another moron that didn’t know Iraq wasn’t Afghanistan! LOL!
December 6th, 2009 at 2:51 pmtheir = there
December 6th, 2009 at 2:51 pmThis one goes out to OSTL:
The little poser that wanted to be…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI6WA-2CgyE
December 6th, 2009 at 2:52 pmOSTL says:
He was specifically referring to Iraq
Either way he lied!
Says the moron that didn’t know Iraq wasn’t Afghanistan!
December 6th, 2009 at 2:52 pmOSTL says:
Either way he lied!
Like when you lied about health care stats the other night? Project much you lying immoral piece of sh!t d**chebag?
December 6th, 2009 at 2:52 pmjust the bleepn facts says:
Koldys is as stupid as Bush, another moron that didn’t know Iraq wasn’t Afghanistan! LOL!
==========================================================
George W, Bush is SO stupid, when he first heard about Iraq he thought his daddy, Bush 41 was talking about the Chevy Camaro Iroc.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:53 pmThe corporate powers that be will decide when their beast has enough to eat… then we will pull out of Afghanistan.
Our government and the balance of power is a joke…. we are under the thumb of corporate thugs.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:54 pmKoldys, when you are caught “lying” and “stealing” repeatedly as you have been – you have zero credibility on the topic. Hypocrites like you that are here every waking minute are nothing but loser jokes with no lives. You are a pathetic “loser” and we both know it Koldys.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:55 pmKind of telling, isn’t it? Everyone goes on about tribal this and uncivilized that and yet they have embarrassed and defeated every major empire they went up against.
After all the yipping in the forum about whose version of Obama’s words is true or false, at least can we ditch this fairy tale about Afghanistan being unconquerable? The region has been part of various foreign empires for most of the last three millennia.
Seizing power of Afghanistan’s cities and trade routes is possible for any competent army. The only people who come to grief trying to “conquer” Afghanistan are those who try to “civilize” the hill clans by integrating them into some imperial bureaucracy and/or making them kowtow to some egomaniacal warlord like lowland peasant farmers. If you buy them off and rule with a light hand, you can cut deals with them and secure your strategic goals at minimum expense.
This seems to be the crux of the COIN strategy, whatever the rat’s nest of jargon they’ve buried it in. McCrystal needs to slap the Taliban around, finance some reforms for the locals, and assure them that we’ll leave as soon as we collect Bin Laden’s head. Then we’re out of there.
Anyone have a casualty count for Americans in Iraq from the last ten months? Withdrawal seems to be working there rather well.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:55 pmTricked By The Gods says:
George W, Bush is SO stupid, when he first heard about Iraq he thought his daddy, Bush 41 was talking about the Chevy Camaro Iroc.
Koldys still does… ;)
December 6th, 2009 at 2:56 pmOSTL says:
ROFL! ;)
At your own incompetence and miserable life Koldys? Yep, you’re “that much” of a joke! LOL!
December 6th, 2009 at 2:57 pmKansasLiberal says:
Shayne says:
——————————————————————————–
KansasLiberal? I don’t think so.
Why do you “not think so”? Is it because I am calling out Obama on his BS? I am not the kind that follows blindly because someone calls himself a Democrat. That is what Republicans do. When I see BS in the party I call them out on it and hold them accountable with my vote.
It may be that we’ve had so many people here claim to be Democrat but then bring up right-wing talking points. Not suggesting that you are doing so, but you should have some idea where some of the posters are coming from…
December 6th, 2009 at 2:58 pmMidland, I agree. It makes as much sense as trying to civilize a lunatic hillbilly like ObnoxiousShitheadTrollLoser here…
December 6th, 2009 at 2:58 pmOSTL, either you aren’t very intelligent or you are a bald faced liar, or both.
President Obama was talking about withdrawing troops from Iraq by 2012. He has stated repeatedly that he would add more troops in Afghanistan since the Bush administration dropped the ball on the real war on terrorism and concentrated on Iraq which had absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11 or terrorism.
I’m against sending more troops to Afghanistan but I will not let a snot noised punk like you distort the truth, you ignorant pile of sh+t!
December 6th, 2009 at 2:58 pmOSTL says:
Shhhh! Progressives stopped keeping tallies right around jan. 16…..
KKKons like you never kept tallies, hypocrisy much p*ssy?
December 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pmOSTL, are you still stinging from the knowledge that your masters are using you to project their stupid?
December 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pmOSTL:
December 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pmDos it bother you that everyone reading sees your fear of me?
Tricked By The Gods says:
OSTL, either you aren’t very intelligent or you are a bald faced liar, or both.
You haven’t heard of Koldys yet? LOL! She’s both.
December 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pmdbadass says:
OSTL:
Dos it bother you that everyone reading sees your fear of me?
OSTL fears everyone, it’s why she’s such a b*tching p*ssy hiding behind her anonymous socks…
December 6th, 2009 at 3:00 pmOSTL says:
Anyone have a casualty count for Americans in Iraq from the last ten months? Withdrawal seems to be working there rather well
Shhhh! Progressives stopped keeping tallies right around jan. 16…..
==========================================================
Where was the right wingers concern over the US causalities from 2001 to 2008???????? Oh that’s right. Their concern for the casualties, the deficit, the debt, unemployment all started AFTER January 16, 2009.
December 6th, 2009 at 3:02 pmOSTL, I think the only casualty count you need be concerned with is your own brain cells.
December 6th, 2009 at 3:03 pmOSTL says:
Obama explicitly said he intended to begin a draw-down in 2011.
Obama: “The first thing I will do as President is get our troops home. Take that to the bank.”
Quote: “I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank. ” – Barack Obama Campaign Promise – October 27, 2007
nice try. We all know he was talking about Iraq.
December 6th, 2009 at 3:07 pmblue state bob says:
Every day I wake up thankful Obama is president and not that tag team of McGrumpy and Bible Spice. If you think the economy and foreign policy were in a bad place, just imagine if those 2 idiots were in charge.
This is the most accurate and succinct summary of the situation. Obama may want to do one thing but the political realities make that impossible. I am willing to trust Obama’s judgment on Afghanistan because at the very least, I know this decision was based on facts rather than the president’s gut feeling like Bush. I sincerely believe that Obama has given Karzai a time frame after which he is going to be on his own. The fact that Obama increased troops at the same time he talked about withdrawal means he does not intend to keep ramping up the war and an endless commitment. The troop withdrawals will start before the next election. I am willing to wait and see if Obama changes his mind about withdrawal, but I don’t think that is going to happen.
December 6th, 2009 at 3:11 pmOSTL:
December 6th, 2009 at 3:13 pmIn the New Year you really need to bring your problem to the attention of your loved ones. You do have a few loved ones don’t you OSTL?
Looking back at the quotations from the talk shows, the real story seems to be all the bonehead hosts playing “gotcha” with the withdrawal date. Anyone with a lick of knowledge about the 5000 year history of these mixed diplomatic/military operation should know there isn’t any way to fix a date absolutely and no sound reason to yap about it. We set a goal, and if we can advance on it, fine, if we stall past it, make an excuse and try harder.
The important thing is that the Afghans know we are leaving and not loitering around to salve some warlord’s ego. Getting Cheney to shut his mouth would help in that regard. His reputation as a diplomatic sociopath is such that his comments are directly injuring our foreign policy. It’s like having having Jeffrey Dahmer commenting on the menu for the re-opening of a restaurant
December 6th, 2009 at 3:20 pmOSTL,
December 6th, 2009 at 3:34 pmWhat positive contribution have you contributed to the discussion today? I ran through the comments and found very little. This appears to be a trend of yours?
OSTL is all about negative attention and nothing more. OSTL has no core values that OSTL stands for. OSTL is a fraud and a poser. OSTL is also scared shitless of me…
December 6th, 2009 at 3:36 pm.
Dear OSTL,
Your body count figures can be found here…
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/individuals/
And here…
http://icasualties.org/oef/
It’s funny that you chide us for counting the dead.
Then chide us for not.
But really, may I ask of you…
… WHEN WILL YOU CARE ABOUT HUMAN LIFE OTHER THAN YOUR OWN OR WILL YOU CONTINUE TO BE A PAIN IN THE A$$ AND A SELFISH PRICK TOO BOOT?
.
December 6th, 2009 at 3:37 pmdb,
Do you think OSTL waited with baited breath this AM for TP to post a thread so that IT can be the first one to post?
FRIST… eh OSTL? I never heard you call it but the pride sure does swell in your pants about it, NO?
NO?
December 6th, 2009 at 3:39 pm#1 OSTL,
Stupid troll…
December 6th, 2009 at 3:47 pm… That sounds more like Bush III, you ignorant fool!
OSTL can FOAD already, pond scum.
December 6th, 2009 at 3:49 pmMax Anax junius -1 says:
——————————————————————————–
db,
Do you think OSTL waited with baited breath this AM for TP to post a thread so that IT can be the first one to post?
FRIST… eh OSTL? I never heard you call it but the pride sure does swell in your pants about it, NO?
NO?
From what his mother says there isn’t too much in the pants to swell.
December 6th, 2009 at 3:50 pmOff topic, but fun:
Sarah Palin’s daddy says that she left her school in Hawaii after one semester because all those Asians there made her uncomfortable.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/06/palins-father-she-left-ha_n_381724.html
She liked Idaho more because there were lots more white folks, “real Americans” in her opinion. — Evangenital
******************************************************
Interesting — says a lot, doesn’t it? It would also appear to explain a few things…perhaps one reason why Palin’s book tour isn’t including stops in large cities is because she might actually have to interact with larger numbers of Asians and other minorities in those places.
Still…if I were Palin (and all praise to the Powers That Be for the fact that I’m not), I might be thinking something like “Et tu, Daddy?” right about now.
December 6th, 2009 at 3:53 pmOSTL
December 6th, 2009 at 3:56 pmGet you shit together or be declared pussy for life. Let’s go you little dust speck….
OSTL:
You are weak and it shows. Everyone sees how weak you are. I have an idea that offers you the chance to look big. It will get you the attention you so seek. Do you have the nerve. Imagine being the one to bring me down. Do you think you have the right stuff? Come on I am offering you first chance…
When you hide I will show the others again how inferior you are and how I can humiliate you at will. Not that everyone already knows that…
December 6th, 2009 at 4:01 pmYour “baited breath” is not pretty, dbadass.
–
December 6th, 2009 at 4:03 pmANd your lame ass attention getting devices have grow so old. You know how this will end yet you prelong your agony because your need for attention is greater than your self worth…
OSTL:
December 6th, 2009 at 4:10 pmWill you or will you not bet that I will outlast your pretend poser ass? Let’s go loser get on record as having at least some level of balls? Everyone thinks you are a pussy and I just keep showing them that. I know it bothers you so why not put me in my place?
OSTL:
December 6th, 2009 at 4:10 pmWhy do you think anyone would want to name jack such a weak and lame persona as yours?
The more you jump around the more my point that you are a weak ass attention seeker with no intellect nor principles is made…
December 6th, 2009 at 4:12 pmHiding what you do from your family is evidence that you know that you are totally pitiful and an embarassment….
Imagine (if you can) OSTL bringing home a potential sex partner. Do you think they share their weird OCD issues? I mean I know the whole thing is implausible based on the premise that such a weirdo might ever attrack any interest from another human but still it is funny to think about…
December 6th, 2009 at 4:16 pmOSTL:
December 6th, 2009 at 4:18 pmWe have dicked around long enough. Why don’t you tell us hat your issues are. What do you feel dtrongly about and what would you fight for? Tell us because it looks to us that attention is your thing and that is worthy of nothing but ridicule. Do you seek to be ridiculed? If so why?
OSTL says:
Must be why zooey resides there…
December 6th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
How do you know I’m not Nez Perce or Coeur d’Alene?
December 6th, 2009 at 4:20 pmLike Viet Nam? You Bet.
The Mightiest Military the World has ever seen could not win the Hearts and Minds of the people.
Military is not very good at training Language or Cluture’s
It was the Amish in Pennsylvania that tought me the most valuable lesson.
When a crazy gunman entered their school and shot and killed their children as their class mates watched as he turned the gun on himself..This was worse than 9/11 was for us. While burring their children they reached out to the gunman’s family and asked what they could do help them.
Collin Powell was at the first White House meeting to advise how to respond to the 9/11 attacks. He suggested sending C5’s loaded with medical supplies, food, clothing and tents as it was going to very cold in Afghanistan. (Book: “Bush At War” Author: Bob Woodward) Collin was never asked to advise at the meetings again.
The World was in the palm of hands. The rest of the World including Iran and China was asking “What could they do to help”?
Bush had opened the door to the Church that gave a feeling that this was not healthy ..Church/State.
Really..Vengeance is not sweat. The Church never spoke
December 6th, 2009 at 4:21 pmHey pal if we were at a bar instead of a blog your ass would be in the gutter by now. Fair warning: You mess with the bull you get the horns.
–
December 6th, 2009 at 4:22 pmThen come shut me up you pussy pos? Do it loser shut me up!
*snort*
The troll is fighting with himself.
December 6th, 2009 at 4:23 pmOSTL
December 6th, 2009 at 4:27 pmWhat are your core values?
Hilarious.
December 6th, 2009 at 4:28 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Zooey,
December 6th, 2009 at 4:36 pmThis out does bitblt anyday!
With all due respect, can we agree not to feed the resident troll? Is it really terribly likely that OSTL could have been name-jacked on a message board which can only be accessed by a password? It seems fairly clear to me that OSTL is nothing more than a flame-baiter whose only purpose here is to get attention and be deliberately controversial for his/her own skewed sense of amusement rather than to engage in legitimate debate — and that the claims of name-jacking are just another attempt to mess with people’s heads.
December 6th, 2009 at 4:38 pmHi bit… er TRIATHLON…
December 6th, 2009 at 4:38 pmAnd I wonder what Grandpappy McCain thinks about this…
From Crooks and Liars:
Petraeus admits he didn’t vote for McCain
Gen. David Petraeus may be registered as a Republican but he didn’t vote for John McCain for president in 2008. When Petraeus became a two-star general in 2002 he stopped voting. “When I was promoted to major general, it seemed like a quiet thing at the time, but it’s perhaps taken on bigger ramifications,” Petraeus told Fox News’ Chris Wallace Sunday.
lol Priceless.
December 6th, 2009 at 4:42 pmI just asked why you would post a bunch of sensless garble from another blog to this blog. I just asked why you couldn’t state what was on your mind.
I’m glad to see that you at least tried on this post. kudoo’s.
He was talking about Iraq. This has been covered.
Really, I’m not thrilled with sending more troops to Afganistan either but this time Obama has laid out a plan of action and a plan to end our envolvement.
Nothing you can say changes that fact. Additionally, he has changed the plan to more localized involvement with heightened effort towards getting Afganistan ready to run their own country, something bush never did.
Additionally, he has involved other nations with real troop contributions. 50,000 of the troops in Afganistan will not be American. It’s called a multi-lateral effort which we are now trusted to run, unlike when bush was in office.
If you despise how things are done here, why are you here? If I go to a right wing blog I will be banned the first time I speak my mind. Not here though, and yes it gets messy and lines are drawn. It is not usually the left that draws those lines if you are honest(I will hold my breath).
We are as polite as you are. You decide how you are treated. If you treat people with respect, you will be treated with respect.
If you think however, that you have some kind of moral high ground to come and tell a diverse group of people how to behave when they confront abject ignorance, then you have made a mistake.
December 6th, 2009 at 4:48 pmSP Biloxi,
Petraeus didn’t vote for McPalin any more than he did vote for Obama.
Petraeus doesn’t vote… period! For no one, no how, no way!
December 6th, 2009 at 4:49 pmCorporate greed is the only reason that we are still occupying Afghanistan and Iraq. American corporations want to put pipelines through Afghanistan and also control/steal Iraq’s vast oil reserves.
Isn’t American imperialism wonderful? We will bomb, invade, torture, blindfold, jail and overthrow anyone who stands in the way of our stealing their natural resources. The US military has been pulling this crap in third world countries since 1898, for one hundred and eleven years. Do you think that they are going to stop now?
President Obama is just the most recent face on US imperialism.
December 6th, 2009 at 4:52 pmShayne @74:
December 6th, 2009 at 4:53 pmAgain, are our soldier’s lives to be sacrificed for political expediency? Not to mention the fact that most Americans want us out of Afghanistan. Is this policy really acceptable because it might help Obama get reelected? I don’t believe for one second that Obama would think his reelection is worth the life
of one American soldier. There is no question that the world is better off for Obama having been elected. But he is wrong on this issue. As for this comment: If we abandon our principles because all our needs aren’t being met we could end up with a much scarier administration..
We aren’t talking about whether obama is spending enough on the arts. This is a matter of life and death for those in Afghanistan. I voted for obama and I will again even if he doesn’t reverse this policy because he is better than any
repug. But I still have a responsibility to speak out and try to get a mistaken policy changed. Wrong is wrong whether it’s done by a Democrat or a Repug.
I am glad Obami is trying to win the heart of my vile, shouting party by hinting that this could be a triple burger war. My party loves meat. Red, bloody meat.
My party thinks it’s popular to call for troops on a whim and thinks it’s soured upon to settle down and look at our troops as a precious resource and strategize peacebuilding as a multi-faceted approach.
We are the war party. It’s not our asses on the line. We sit on our bums and decide what other people will do for us because we have failed, disastrous ideologies to lodge down people’s throats.
We will “win”. And we don’t have to tell you what that means.
December 6th, 2009 at 4:55 pmdoo be dee do much?
December 6th, 2009 at 4:57 pmjwmuiyaai,
I don’t get it.
You won’t vote for a (R) because the policy is wrong, wrong, wrong…
… But when a (D) has that same policy wrong, wrong, wrong, you’ll vote for THEM?
Tell me that’s being nonpartisan and I’ll sell you a bridge.
I mean, there’s an obvious contradiction in your statement. Can you find it?
Too bad Principles don’t carry water…
December 6th, 2009 at 4:59 pmOSTL, does ibuprofen work to stop the headache when you spout silly crap and then bang your head on the keyboard?
December 6th, 2009 at 5:00 pmTo his credit, the OSTLhole is making sure that none of us will ever vote for a repiggie or a teabagger.
If the OSTLhole wishes to convince us of the rectitude of the white-wing neo-cons, he has succeeded only in proving the opposite.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:01 pmThe date, sometime in the year 2032. Another president is elected and promises to end the war in Afghanistan. He or she will make a speech about having to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here. He or she will say that there are bad people planning violence against the US at this very moment and we must continue this war. He or she will invoke 9-11 on numerous occasions even though most people don’t remember it. In all the years of the war in Afghanistan hundreds of thousands have been killed, its still a rugged wasteland with the exception of the now infamous Karzai Poppy Plantations and still, to this date, no magical natural gas pipeline has been built.
This all hypothetical of course but, how many lies and lives does it really take to build a pipeline? To me, that’s all this stupid war is about. Oh, and maybe a little bit of political chest thumping.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:03 pmevangenital, OSTL proves that quasi-intelligent life can evolve from Cheetos.
Who would have thought a noxious snack could be so powerful?
December 6th, 2009 at 5:04 pmHey everyone, chill out. 12/21/2012 is only a few years away and those New World savages the gloom and doom crowd have embraced said the world will end then. Instead of being raptured, just buy a life jacket or raft.
Unless you are OSTL because shit floats.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:07 pm#165 Zooey,
At least you’re not in Hayden Lake, Idaho. Aryan Nation World headquarters.
Maybe that’s why OSTL is having difficulty finding you there. OSTL needs to leave the “compound” more often, NO?
December 6th, 2009 at 5:09 pmHooda,
December 6th, 2009 at 5:11 pmMore powerful than Twinkies?
Again, why isn’t the OSTLhole serving in Iraq or in Afghanistan?
Why can’t he “walk the talk” that he spews ad nauseam?
December 6th, 2009 at 5:11 pmOSTL, do you prefer the puffy Cheetos, the crunchy Cheetos or the hot ones?
I’m guessing the hot ones because we all know what a stimulating effect the capscasin has.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:11 pmMy party has promised the flag-waving children of today that they, too, will grow up and be able to work a war job. Those $8000-a-month Halliburton gigs aren’t going anywhere.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:12 pmMax, even thinking of interbreeding between trollish snacks is evil.
But what do you get when you cross a Twinkie with a Cheeto? Red Bull wants to know.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:13 pmWhat exactly will be accomplished in the favor of the U.S. by more innocent Afghan and Iraqi casualties?
December 6th, 2009 at 5:14 pmIn the near future, out of a classroom of 32 kids, at least half will be able to gloat, “My daddy works in Afghanistan!”
December 6th, 2009 at 5:15 pmIt’s not surprising that the OSTLhole has decided to sit out both the Bush/Cheney wars.
Contemplating a run for Congress?
Only the losers join the military these days, according to the neo-cons.
It’s the really smart hyper-patriots that stay out of harm’s way who benefit the most from these idiotic wars.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:17 pmHooda,
December 6th, 2009 at 5:17 pmToo much Yellow Die #42?
The world will end in 2012 because, after some 200 years, the black folks who built the white house were, gasp, able to occupy it in a higher capacity. IT’S THE END!! EEEEH!
December 6th, 2009 at 5:18 pmWhat exactly will be accomplished in the favor of the U.S. by more innocent Afghan and Iraqi casualties?
Maybe dead brown people are an essential component in pipeline construction. Sort of a lubricant.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:19 pmMax Anax junius -1 says:
Zooey,
This out does bitblt anyday!
December 6th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
To be fair, banana slugs outdo bitbutt on a daily basis.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:20 pm#197 evangenital,
More insurgency?
More surges?
More timeline horizons?
More money funneled into the MIC?
More flag draped coffins?
… Am I getting close?
December 6th, 2009 at 5:20 pmZooey,
December 6th, 2009 at 5:23 pmLOL. Funny thing was the moment I posted that, he showed up, or someone who suffers from the same personality dissorder that bitblt suffers from. “We means I, in our mind”, NO?
Unbelievable! The moronic troll OSTL was here for five straight hours! Now what normal, productive human being wastes five hours and more a day, every single day at a blog which supports things he is against???
This is really a sad, pathetic story folks. Obviously the guy has been shunned by the opposite sex, shunned by all of his family members, shunned by any friends he may have had, is obviously unemployed and sucking on the government teet, the government he so despises.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:24 pmUncle Fester,
December 6th, 2009 at 5:29 pmOSTL was here, waiting with “baited halitosis” for the first and seemingly ONLY Sunday thread.
#197 evangenital,
More insurgency?
More surges?
More timeline horizons?
More money funneled into the MIC?
More flag draped coffins?
My party’s #1 envisionment of an economic boom on the homeland.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:30 pmI think it is note worthy, that President Obama has not had the luxury of any good options. He is stuck unraveling one convoluted mess after another. Afghanistan is yet another one of the Bush administrations’ debacles.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:34 pmI am also surprised at complete failure of the previous administration at successfully completing any of their military commitments with any type of success. Consider the
lack of follow trough with the Taliban or Bin Ladin and the missed opportunities concerning these two in Afghanistan. This was the entire purpose in sending troops to this region of the world.
When Bush made his Afghanistan decision, the country and the world were solidly behind him. Obama has to take on a new strategy, with 8 years of failed military policy, the American Public questioning the wisdom and a world that has lost interest.
The sooner the troops are brought home, the better. In the meantime, Obama at least signals a fresh start. You can only hope Obama’s execution of his plans leads to completion and not a complete failure like Bush.
President Plumber 2012
I’ll keep you safe, my friends.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:34 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
OSTL says:
Shocker!
Therapy!
December 6th, 2009 at 5:41 pmMaybe. You used it as an absolute though and tried to tie it to Afganistan when he always said he was going to send more troops to Afganistan and draw down in Iraq.
If you want to talk about the overall strategy then don’t use a specific about Iraq as your example.
Yes we do.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:53 pmMax Anax junius -1 says:
jwmuiyaai,
I don’t get it.
You won’t vote for a (R) because the policy is wrong, wrong, wrong…
… But when a (D) has that same policy wrong, wrong, wrong, you’ll vote for THEM?
Tell me that’s being nonpartisan and I’ll sell you a bridge.
I mean, there’s an obvious contradiction in your statement. Can you find it?
Too bad Principles don’t carry water…
December 6th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
The answer is easy enough max. If there was a chance that a candidate with
December 6th, 2009 at 6:01 pmwhom I agreed on every issue could win, I’d vote for him/her. Because the only viable candidates in the next election will likely be Obama and a repug, I’ll vote for Obama and continue to try to get changes in the policies where I think he is wrong. I won’t be silent on those issues just because he is the better of the viable candidates.
Dominionist evangelicals are running the Pentagon, and have been since the end of the Clinton era.
These dominionist evangelicals are determined to export their “gospel” with arms and warfare, and their stated goal is to wipe out Islam.
Any religion, whether evangelicalism, judaism, catholicism, islam or other is a matter taken on privately, and should have no influence in the civil arena, in which many different people of many different opinions about things live and work.
The Dominionist evangelicals are doing their best to destroy this civil arena at home, and they are hell-bent on bringing about the war which they think will usher in the Second Coming.
Anytime any of you vote for the repiggies, you are voting for this perverted vision of things.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:06 pmExcept your statement that the policies are the same…..is wrong.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:10 pmHere is a bit of good news about the possible devolution of Gitmo:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/05/AR2009120502795.html
It’s important to get that Bush/Cheney concentration camp closed as soon as possible.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:11 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Meanwhile, back at Rupert Murdoch’s affirmative therapy group for out-of-power repiggies (known collectively as FoxNews), more blatant b.s. is being spewed by some of the war criminal’s accomplices:
http://rawstory.com/2009/12/perino-credits-bush-for-copenhagen/
December 6th, 2009 at 6:14 pmGo f uck yourself.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:17 pmI am curious . How much does a gallon of fuel in Kabul cost the US taxpayer ? And what distributor/seller ( corporation ) profits ?
December 6th, 2009 at 6:18 pmdabubba, I wondered that in 2002
December 6th, 2009 at 6:24 pm#214 jwmuiyaai,
Like I said, too bad Principles don’t carry water…
… For me, they do.
That’s why I can say I have no regrets I voted for Kucinich in the primaries and Nader in the general.
There is a reason the MSM is evil, THIS is but one example.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:31 pm“Viable” = good looking, camera pretty, corporate backed.
Petraeus didn’t vote for McCain? Demote him to major general.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:31 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Fred,
December 6th, 2009 at 6:37 pmjwmuiyaai confused what Candidate Obama said about Iraq with what President Obama is going to do in Afghanistan. And what President Obama is going to do in Afghanistan is what former President Bush did to Iraq. Albeit, for some different reasons, but none the less, with no end in sight. I do wonder how President Obama will spin this in 2011… ELECTION CYCLE.
GOP REALLY,
December 6th, 2009 at 6:39 pmPetraeus doesn’t EVEN vote…
How many state sponsored murders to “succeed” at what again?
This is a nineteenth century solution in the twenty-first century. that’s what makes it so disgusting.
It’s also guaranteed to cause endless blow-back. What would our people be thinking and doing right now if the situation was reversed.
There better be a total re-deployment of military energy to peaceful solutions starting now or look out for that blow-back.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:43 pmOSTL/Mark Koldys has been posted here for 10 hours straight. Wow. Congrats, you loser.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:43 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
OSTL lives in an endless mobius loop. time has no meaning for him inside his world. he must work for POX Theatre.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:46 pm#231,
does that mean you’re off to freepe4rville?
siyonara
December 6th, 2009 at 6:47 pmWorldNetDaily banned me three years ago for posting anti-Iraq war comments.
Repiggie sites do not exercise freedom of speech nor toleration of dissent.
ThinkProgress, to its credit, does.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:47 pm231 TRIATHLON says:
TRIATHLON has been projecting his sad world view onto others again.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:48 pmbitblt … er TRIATHLON complains about group think…
December 6th, 2009 at 6:48 pm… Which persona said that? The Id, the Ego, or the Maniac?
i love it when cancervatives delude themselves into thinking they’re intellectually superior like #231. one trip to youtube and a search for “teabagging parties” totally dismantles any premise that argument may have had.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:52 pmTriathlon, a rambling one.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:00 pmOSTL says:
That is some STRONG shiat you’re somkin there Olby.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:02 pmNo wonder you’re so delusional.
237 comments all but a couple of dozen are a juvenile spitting contest. Yuck.
Here is a bit of good news about the possible devolution of Gitmo:
My wife and I did a Mississippi River drive back in August and noted that curious structure hiding in the woods near Thomson. It’s pretty country, but they could sure use a few more jobs down there. I have every confidence that they’ll be able to handle a few beat up terrorists and whatever other poor souls the Cheney thugocracy stuck in Gitmo.
Fulton’s a little farther down the river and there’s a nice Chinese restaurant hidden in the middle of town. When we stopped for Sunday lunch the owners’ eight or so year old daughter was doing a nifty job greeting the folks coming over from church and seating them at the tables with menus and tea.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:04 pmOSTL got his “superior thinker” from a shopping cart full of return items at Wal-mart.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:05 pmostl/lost
“Two words: Glenn Beck. A superior thinker if ever there was one.”
how can you understand what he’s saying between his little beyotch sobs?
December 6th, 2009 at 7:07 pmUnbelievable! The moronic troll OSTL was here for five straight hours! Now what normal, productive human being wastes five hours and more a day, every single day at a blog which supports things he is against???
Well, he completely soiled the forum for most people who might have wanted to exchange rational ideas and info and maybe learn something. For a Freeper troll, that’s a much fun as watching football for five hours on a Sunday.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:08 pmSuperior thinker Glenn Beck? Best laugh all weekend. Thanks OSTL for that.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:09 pmYour still talking about Beck right OSTL?
December 6th, 2009 at 7:11 pm#246,
so sayeth the assclown citing boo-hoo glenda becky as a “superior thinker”
by the way troll, how were boo-hoo becky ticket sales for his national simulcast of his “christmas sweater” performance?
December 6th, 2009 at 7:12 pmOSTL follows “Glenn Beck is a superior thinker” with an ode to gentlemanlike discourse.
Laughable!
December 6th, 2009 at 7:18 pmOnly the losers join the military these days, according to the neo-cons.
It’s the really smart hyper-patriots that stay out of harm’s way who benefit the most from these idiotic wars.
It has always been so among business conservatives, dating back before the beginning of the Republic.
Back in 18th Century Europe, the professional military was staffed by that era’s equivalent of “white trash” and officered by redundant “gentlemen” with little money or property and considered worthless for other profession.
In the United States, up until World War II, “regular” soldiers and sailors were still considered trash. Since we didn’t have an aristocracy, the regular officers were considered lower middle class, respectable but eccentric, and no family worth anything in most community bragged about having a military man in the family.
This situation changed, of course, whenever we went to war and the military filled up its ranks with respectable volunteers. Still, business conservatives were the least likely social class to contribute bodies to our wars.
Even during the Cold War and Vietnam, liberals and moderates were far more likely to enlist out of patriotism, which is why there are always more Democratic veterans in congress than Republicans. For Dick Cheney’s social class, back two centuries, being in the military was always for suckers.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:20 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Olby Sucks Says:
“have only to post their foolish rethoric to be recognized as such”
Irony, much Olby?
December 6th, 2009 at 7:29 pmMax Anax junius -1 says:
SP Biloxi,
Petraeus didn’t vote for McPalin any more than he did vote for Obama.
Petraeus doesn’t vote… period! For no one, no how, no way!
And remember McCain had heart Petraeus during his Presidential race. And I am sure that there of members of Obama’s own cabinet and aides that didn’t vote for Obama. McPalin put some much spotlight into Petraeus that the wingnut media like Fox and other bobblehead media wanted Petraeus for President. Could you imagine that? A man that doesn’t vote to be POTUS.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:32 pmMy trolls are always like fish out of water, hence Dr. Duke’s corny introduction, “Flip Flop”.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:32 pmYes you do. Mostly on top of little boys provided by Markey.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:32 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
David D. are you referring to GWB’s “wanted dead or alive” statement that he followed up with ” I”m not to concerned about OBL”. That flip flop?
December 6th, 2009 at 7:35 pm“For Dick Cheney’s social class”
i didn’t know “scumbag” was a social class. guess i learned something new today.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:38 pmOSTL:
Have you asked your girlfriend Mark Koldys about the incident at the gay bar on Telegraph Road that led to his resignation from the Wayne County Prosecutor’s office?
December 6th, 2009 at 7:40 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Mr. Puke worships KKKoldys.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:42 pmFred ♪♫♪ says:
——————————————————————————–
jwmuiyaai
You won’t vote for a (R) because the policy is wrong, wrong, wrong…
… But when a (D) has that same policy
Except your statement that the policies are the same…..is wrong.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Fred, that was max’s statement, not mine. And, while I can’t speak for him, I don’t think he meant that the policy was entirely the same, only the part about staying at all. I don’t want to argue with you and I understand the tendency to defend Democrats given what repugs have done to this country and the world. Given the choice between 18 plus months in Afghanistan versus an indefinate stay, I would certainly choose 18 plus. But those aren’t the only choices open to Obama. His is CiC and he can order our troops out now. If your opinion is that we need to stay, fine. I disagree and will continue to try to convince anyone that I can to push for withdrawal.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:49 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Max Anax junius -1 says:
——————————————————————————–
#214 jwmuiyaai,
Like I said, too bad Principles don’t carry water…
… For me, they do.
That’s why I can say I have no regrets I voted for Kucinich in the primaries and Nader in the general.
There is a reason the MSM is evil, THIS is but one example.
“Viable” = good looking, camera pretty, corporate backed.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Max I understand your point, but think it’s more likely that we would have ended up with just enough third party votes to allow the repug to win rather than enough to actually elect the third party candidate.
December 6th, 2009 at 8:01 pmAnd I am perfectly clear on the position of candidate Obama. But candidate Obama wasn’t speaking in the wake of a stolen election which put us more firmly than ever in the wrong. He can get out based upon that with the support of the majority of Americans and with who knows how many lives saved, both American and Afghan.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
OSTL,
Checked from posting 135. You are maintaining the trend. You have not provided one positive contribution to this thread, not one.
Come on, give it a try. Give us your opinion on something important. You are capable and I have faith in you.
December 6th, 2009 at 8:08 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Marie Memphis @ 273,
December 6th, 2009 at 8:12 pmYou forget, Obama is not from the chosen line. It is impossible for him to succeed. Only the anointed shall succeed.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Hmmm. Chosen line, flight?
December 6th, 2009 at 8:37 pmGeorge W. is Obama’s tenth cousin, once removed
and Obama is Cheney’s eighth cousin.
Obama was not, however, “annoited” in any Skull and Bones rituals.
I have read that he is a 32nd degree Prince Hall Mason.
noPonies,
I’m no stranger to hard work, all I am saying is that Obama didn’t lead the cushy life that “many” other politicians have. I cannot reasonably speak on why he did not ask for sacrifice though. He spent many years as a “community activist” while I am not totally versed on the duties, I can guess it is alot of long hours. Alot of dealing with difficult people, alot of sacrifice. Is it harsh like alot of the manual labor me and you most likely have done? Nah, but it wasn’t all coctail parties either.
I’m certinally not the worlds biggest Obama fan, but I will give him credit for working his tail off to get where he currently is.
December 6th, 2009 at 8:37 pmBush always had his problems straightened out by daddy and the family retainers and attorneys.
He didn’t have to work for anything; he was given everything.
Still, he screwed up royally, and again, his family’s retainers and friends make nothing but excuses for him, all the while lying about Obama and whipping up racist hatred and frenzy.
That the repiggies still champion that loathesome Bush and his accomplice Cheney is to their eternal shame.
December 6th, 2009 at 8:40 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Marie Memphis 286
Sorry about the obscure reference:
Black snakes, sometimes called glow worms, are small tablets that you light, using a punk or a lighter, that burn to produce long black ’snakes’ of ash.
We used to call the black snakes, punks and watching the asphalt dust snake out of my pores on the Seabright beach reminded me of the black snakes we called punks
December 6th, 2009 at 8:45 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
In the US senate, currently,
14 Democrat Veterans 14% (Out of 100)
12 Republican veterans 12% (Out of 100)
Combat veterans, per the VVHP web site: five Democrats, one Republican.
To save you some rebuttal time, per the same site, there are currently 56 Republican vets in the house to 45 Democrats, though there are 14 Democratic combat veterans vs 12 Republican combat veterans.
The interesting thing about the Republican veterans list is that it includes almost no one of import. This is a fascinating corallary to original premise, as much of the current Republican “purification” movement is populist conservatives pushing against traditional middle-class and business conservatives for power in the party. The upper class business conservatives are still running things–which is why the Bush II administration was dominated by Chickenhawks like Dick Cheney–but the hard-core right-wingers like Joe Wilson (a national guard colonel) are making their presence felt as the Republican party and its congressional delegation shrinks. Those guys are in a helluva fix.
December 6th, 2009 at 8:52 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Oh, Dear Lord. I just stepped in and a troll is talking about ‘The Day the Earth Stood Still’? Man, I’ve been to long.
December 6th, 2009 at 8:58 pm… hey all… just checked in… thought i’d get some informative reactions to the story by reading the comments of familiar posters…
it’s a rather poor showing up there… most of the first 20 posts comprising the “dbadass & OSTLy show”… well, dbadass talking to the ghost of OSTLy, as i didn’t click to read… that’s as far as i got…
ok then… changed my mind… not in the mood to listen to bickering…
see y’all tomorrow…
December 6th, 2009 at 9:01 pmOSTL says:
Two words: Glenn Beck. A superior thinker if ever there was one. A fearless visionary, his thoughts stream with the juices of life.
OLIGARHY.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:01 pmExit Stage Left at 83 kicks ass.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:02 pmI think I may have to open a bottle of absithe to wrap my brain around
December 6th, 2009 at 9:02 pmthat “black punks come out of one’s pores” analogy.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
P.S.@304, LOL! ‘Glenn Beck’ A Superior thinker’. Did he actually type that? I think I’ll vomit or laugh hysterically.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:03 pmObama’s speech was Bushy in one important way. He didn’t call on us to sacrifice. He didn’t tell us to go shopping, true, but he also didn’t ask us to pay for the war or to volunteer to fight it or to reduce our dependence on oil.
I would take this as a good sign. We have no business even being in Afghanistan, let alone fighting a major war there. This isn’t a “crusade” or even a major security threat. It is hideous, bloody sewer explosion that Bush and Cheney caused and left for the rest of us to clean up. Obama’s going to send in the professionals to do what they can to minimize the damage and smoke out the rats Bush was supposed to exterminate, and then we’re leaving.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:04 pmRight. Who wants to play Star Wars lego WII with their kid or fix a windshield wiper when you do this instead?
I put her to bed at 8:00 (She’s only 7). Luckily no more friends asked for freebies either.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:04 pmP.S.@304, LOL! ‘Glenn Beck’ A Superior thinker’. Did he actually type that?
Yeah…Yeah… He ummm did….
December 6th, 2009 at 9:05 pmWe have no business even being in Afghanistan, let alone fighting a major war there.
Agreed, But then why are we…
going to send in the professionals to do what they can to minimize the damage and smoke out the rats
December 6th, 2009 at 9:07 pmAnyone who thinks Glenn Beck is a serious thinker is delusional.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:08 pmAnyone who thinks Glenn Beck is a serious thinker is delusional.
Concur
December 6th, 2009 at 9:10 pmI think Glenn Beck is a seriously delusional thinker.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:12 pm14 is greater than 12. Do not help your daughter with her math homework.
With that theory,
December 6th, 2009 at 9:17 pmThere are 100 Pieces of fruit in a basket. 2 Pieces of fruit are “independant” fruit and aren’t counted. 58 are oranges and 14 of those are “Grade A, top notch oranges”. There are 40 Apples 12 of those are “Grade A, top notch oranges”. Oranges and Apples cost the same and have the same markup, which fruit do you continue to buy?
Tundra@319, Give us a break! You are talking about APPLES and ORANGES.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:22 pmGive us a break! You are talking about APPLES and ORANGES.
Who says you can;t compare Apples and Oranges??
December 6th, 2009 at 9:23 pmBananas.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:25 pmTundra,
There are 40 Apples 12 of those are “Grade A, top notch oranges”.
If apples can be oranges and oranges can be apples, it really doesn’t matter.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:27 pmIf apples can be oranges and oranges can be apples, it really doesn’t matter.
My point exactly, They are all the same!!!!
December 6th, 2009 at 9:31 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Is there anyone here? I try avoid the trolls as much as possible. P.S. had the right idea.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:41 pmI think we all lost consciousness while rainman was making fruit salad, P.D..
December 6th, 2009 at 9:49 pmnoPonies @ 325,
And what exactly is it that we have to clean up that require the military?
————————————————————–
I never could agree with the military option with 9/11.
This was a criminal act carried out by criminals. Appears to be a police matter to me. Involving the military and terming it a war gave the perpetrators what they wanted most, a holy war.
The Bush Legacy keeps giving and giving.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:55 pmIn reference to the the percentage of Veterans in he U.S. Senate whouldn’t this be a more accurate depiction:
14 Democrates out of 58 24%
12 Republicans out of 40 30%
0 Independants out of 2 0%
December 6th, 2009 at 10:00 pmOSTL says:
Obama: “The first thing I will do as President is get our troops home. Take that to the bank.”
Quote: “I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank. ” – Barack Obama Campaign Promise – October 27, 2007
I know there isn’t much point in saying this again, since you lot have been stubbornly refusing to understand this information for the last six years, but IRAQ =/= AFGHANISTAN. That is all.
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OSTL says:
Two words: Glenn Beck. A superior thinker if ever there was one. A fearless visionary, his thoughts stream with the juices of life.
I gotta admit, I am impressed by his ability to sucker you wingnuts out of all your money by making up a bunch of groundless conspiracy theories that he doesn’t believe in in the least. I look forward to the day his real opinions come out and you start complaining about him being a RINO.
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noPonies says:
I’m listening. What about Obama’s life wasn’t soft? His years in prep school in Hawaii? The two summer jobs he had borrowing his way through college?
Think of jobs so dirty that no matter how hard one scrubbed, black punks come out of ones pores on the beach. Think of 44 foot trucks loaded with text books, carrying two golf bags 36 holes a day six days a week, working on the flight line in below zero weather. That’s some of what I did.
We’re all terribly impressed. Now explain how this qualifies you to be POTUS, thx.
And while Obama’s life has certainly been better than your execrable Dickensian nightmare, it’s not out of line with most of the middle class in America. However, it’s still certainly a far cry from the priviledged existence that people like Dubya, Cheney and their cronies have enjoyed since birth.
But I guess comparing apples to apples works out well for you as long as you get to pick the apples in advance, huh?
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Midland says:
I would take this as a good sign. We have no business even being in Afghanistan, let alone fighting a major war there.
Except for the thing where Al-Qaeda crashed a bunch of planes into buildings on 9/11/01, and the Taliban (who were in control of Afghanistan) refused to extradite them. I mean, if you ignore that, then sure.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:02 pmGood Night my fellow TPers, see you on the morn…. Hopefully, troll free.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:05 pmflight says:
This was a criminal act carried out by criminals. Appears to be a police matter to me. Involving the military and terming it a war gave the perpetrators what they wanted most, a holy war.
I agree that ultimately it should be handled as a crime, rather than as an act of war. But when the perpetrators of that crime are being sheltered by a sovereign regime, then you either say “OK, we’ll let you go” or you bring in the military. It’s safe to say that in the months following 9/11 very few people were very comfortable with the former option.
This kind of reminds me of how the right wing completely forgets things only a few years old as soon as conditions change to make it convenient to accept a “new reality.” Just as they all completely forgot the historically rich term “exit strategy” as soon as Bush invaded Iraq, it seems to me that the left today is forgetting how the initial invasion of Afghanistan was instantly supported by every country around the world, as well as by an overwhelming majority of the people at home. If there is such a thing as a “just war,” then Afghanistan most certainly qualifies.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:14 pm… however, it’s pretty clear that Bush followed Obama’s script to the letter, playing “great Satan” perfectly on command.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:15 pmMidland says:
I would take this as a good sign. We have no business even being in Afghanistan, let alone fighting a major war there.
Except for the thing where Al-Qaeda crashed a bunch of planes into buildings on 9/11/01, and the Taliban (who were in control of Afghanistan) refused to extradite them. I mean, if you ignore that, then sure.
I was speaking in the present tense. As you note, the attack on the World Trade Center happened in 2001. We invaded Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban a few months later, succeeded in a few weeks, and we are still there eight freaking years later!
December 6th, 2009 at 10:22 pmYou mean “Osama’s”?
December 6th, 2009 at 10:25 pm“Agreed, But then why are we… “going to send in the professionals to do what they can to minimize the damage and smoke out the rats.”
Because we made a mess and we have a moral obligation to clean it up as best we can. Obama decided that leaving without trying to stabilize the situation would cause more death and misery than keeping a limited presence for a limited time.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:29 pmThe conservatives posting here have the false assumption that we progressives agree with everything that Pres Obama says and does. That is false. I like Kucinich, Nader, and Sanders, myself. They are also arguing about what has not happened in Dec 2011.
They are also not saying what they are in favor of. It is very dishonest to criticize Obama for not getting out of Afghanistan when they do not want to get out of Afghanistan, and probably would like to invade Iran, too. Conservatives would not leave Iraq nor Afghanistan because they want to control every square inch of the world. There is a lot of oil and natural gas in the region.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:34 pm<em.Midland says:
I was speaking in the present tense. As you note, the attack on the World Trade Center happened in 2001. We invaded Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban a few months later, succeeded in a few weeks, and we are still there eight freaking years later!
It’s never too late to do the right thing.
Example: the “surge.” In 2003, Bush fired Shinseki for stating that the number of troops allocated to invade Iraq was woefully insufficient by several orders of magnitude to pacify the country. Of course, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz etc. all said he was crazy, and within a month he was “retired.” Four years later, they dust off the very same recommendation they fired him for, call it “the surge” and brand it as if it were their idea all along. Two years later, we’re pulling out of a stable Iraq.
The general notion that justification for war is situation-based is exactly what the neocons want us to believe. But to say that we should pull out of Afghanistan because it’s too late or it’s too hard is the flip-side of the same theory that says we should have invaded Iraq just because we could. Either a conflict is just, or it is not. Whether or not it is just is not dependent on variables such as what the last administration failed to do.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:52 pmKeith says:
Conservatives would not leave Iraq nor Afghanistan because they want to control every square inch of the world. There is a lot of oil and natural gas in the region.
What they are congenitally incapable of understanding is that control of a foreign region with a completely different culture is simply impossible in this day and age. All their policies lead to is political destabilisation, which only makes things tougher on us economically so long as we’re dependent on that region’s exports.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:54 pmElBruce, in #334, you didn’t really mean “Obama’s”, did you?
December 6th, 2009 at 10:54 pm#340, I agree, totally.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:56 pmAll 9/11 vengeance aside, why do you think our allies support our presence in Afghanistan?
December 6th, 2009 at 10:56 pmBecause Al Qaeda now has a foothold in Pakistan, who we know has nuclear arms. Iran, that is already having border issues with Pakistan, is armed with a million Baij and tens of billions of capital embezzled from the Iranian people. Ahmadinejad, who denies the holocaust and his own Jewish ancestry, is well prepared to tangle with the Sunni Al Qaeda for territory and nuclear possession, with or without the support of Iran’s citizens.
Although India is at risk as well, Israel is, as always, America’s obligation to protect and defend. At the rate that Al Qaeda’s influence is spreading, America’s withdrawal now would seem to neglect a scenario that would require much more military force and funds later, and easily evolve into World War Three.
Bush had many opportunities to prevent the situation we and are allies are now facing, including re-establishing relations with Iran under the regime of Khatami, and promoting better conditions for Palistinians under Israeli rule, not to mention everything Iraq.
So yes, flight, the Bush/Reagan Iran/Contra legacy keeps on giving.
Keith says:
ElBruce, in #334, you didn’t really mean “Obama’s”, did you?
Gar! No. OK, I have hereby fired the guy who programs the chyron scroller on the bottom of my screen. I got him cheap after he got fired by FOX News.
(FOX News has since taken him back, btw)
December 6th, 2009 at 11:21 pmI thought it was one of FOX’s dirty tricks! :-)
December 7th, 2009 at 12:09 amThe general notion that justification for war is situation-based is exactly what the neocons want us to believe. But to say that we should pull out of Afghanistan because it’s too late or it’s too hard is the flip-side of the same theory that says we should have invaded Iraq just because we could. Either a conflict is just, or it is not. Whether or not it is just is not dependent on variables such as what the last administration failed to do.
You’re kidding, right? The world is full of injustices, and, no matter how morally pure you think you are, I’m confident even you deal with them based on what time and resources you feel you can expend, what risks you can take, what chance you having of accomplishing something positive.
What the Bush-Cheney thugocracy thought it could do or not do has very little bearing on what we moral, rational people should be doing. They were idiots as well as being thugs and bigots.
We don’t have infinite resources, or infinite wisdom, we can’t cure all the worlds ills, and we have to decide case by case on what we can do to alleviate the injustices we encounter. For nations, the corrupting effects of power, used for whatever reasons thought righteous at the time, can destroy whatever good that nation thinks its doing, and destroy the nation itself. Further, the lessons of history are that no nation is ever so correct that they can be trusted to make righteous decisions. Just the opposite, actually. Even then, the resentment generated when one tribe imposes its moral judgement on another tribe tends to subvert and corrupt the process.
Having more or less learned these lessons after two world wars, the Western cultural tradition urges humility and caution in all foreign endeavors.
We will do what we can in Afghanistan, and no more.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:10 amTrolls shake in their soaking pee pants over joe cantwell.
Well done!
December 7th, 2009 at 12:17 amHere’s OSTL at his very best.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:25 amExcept for the thing where Al-Qaeda crashed a bunch of planes into buildings on 9/11/01, and the Taliban (who were in control of Afghanistan) refused to extradite them. I mean, if you ignore that, then sure.
And France refused to extradite Polanski… We should have taken them out… Except the difference is that the Taliban couldn;t have sent us Osama if they tried.
that is of course if you decide that it is a criminal matter.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:32 amIt’s totally funny, fool.
I’d hate to see you at your worst. Just sayin’…
December 7th, 2009 at 12:35 amApparently not…
December 7th, 2009 at 12:43 amYou remind me of the girls back in high school who used to call me pizza face.
BAH, Their mom’s always loved me and that worked out better for me personally so… Let them call me Pizza Face.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:47 amOSTL says:
Another day of “no life” and “constant whining” Koldys? Shocking!
December 7th, 2009 at 12:55 am360, I’m sorry this has what to do with you budinski?
OSTL,
December 7th, 2009 at 12:55 amSorry was just reminiscing about a girls mom. One that called me PizzaFace back then. I felt it worked out better for me that her mom liked me, was a memorable experience is all. Was by no means against you.
OSTL says:
You remind me of the girls back in high school who used to call me pizza face. I got over it.
Really? Doesn’t sound like it Koldys! LOL! ;)
December 7th, 2009 at 12:56 am@ 238. OSTL says: … Two words: Glenn Beck. A superior thinker if ever there was one. A fearless visionary, his thoughts stream with the juices of life. Checkmate. December 6th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Holy frackin’ hamburger, Lostl, have you been to too many John Birch Society meetings; listened to too many anti-fluoride rants, or is it just that you’ve fallen in love with General Jack D. Ripper of “Dr. Stangelove”, who very famously said, well before this Glenn Beck person, “I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.”
Oh, sorry, those juices of life you refer to have created a yellow puddle around your barcalounger…
Beck doesn’t have thoughts; he has paranoid delusions.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:12 amOSTL, you really need to get yourself check out. Really. I mean this sincerely. That you’re on this site so much, for five hours straight even, that you keep confusing yourself with someone else…
You need help. The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, yeah? o_o
December 7th, 2009 at 1:26 am….er, checked out. Yeah, I’m awake.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:26 am@ 266. Tundra says: This comment has been voted down. Click to read. Sorry, Mine was in responsse to 251 Midland’s statement that there were more Democrat Vetrans then Republicans. While technically true (they have more members). Percentage wise there are less. December 6th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
According to your own figures, 26% of the members of the Senate are veterans, of which 14% are Democrats and 12% are Republicans. The percentages you gave are only part of the statistic, and may or may not be representative of the percentage of veterans in each party nationwide. There’s no particular reason to expect that Democratic veterans in the Senate would outnumber Republican veterans by something close to a 3 to 2 margin; the Senate is too small a sample of the population.
Further, the Senate isn’t the only house in Congress. What’s the breakdown for the House of Representatives?
December 7th, 2009 at 1:30 amOSTL says:
obama, osama what’s the diff?
You can’t tell the difference? Really? Then you are an enemy of every American patriot.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:51 amthe greatest imperialistic nation on earth is america.
aint it great to be the greatest at something.
I am so proud to be an american.
we have not quite done as good a job in iraq as we did in vietnam in that illegal war.
we killed over 1 million vietnamese and we are not even that close in iraq.
give us time we are there for at least 40 more years.
just because that have 40 years of oil reserve has nothing to do with our 40 year timetable to pull completely out.
at least the muslims are easier to occupy than the vietnamese were. those folks refused to allow us to be occupiers.
our empire took a hit on that war but if we would have listed to mc war we could have bombed every man woman and child in north vietnam and won that war. mc war knows how to win wars. kill them all with bombs from above. truly he is a christian man and cares for unborn chilren still in the womb as long as he can bomb them when they come out.
dumbies dont they know this is america and we rule.
at least we are christians and going to heaven not like those that dont want occupied by foreign troops.
signed
proud american
yes we can
at least our pres won the peace prize
we are a peace loving people that is why we have 720 military bases around the world.
now when are we going to invade iran they have more oil than iraq. that oil belongs to us we are americans after all.
god knew what he was doing when he created america.
and some think they are gods chosen people. fools it is us and our peace loving population.
god bless america.
December 7th, 2009 at 3:22 amOSTL
Code for ignorant brainwashed pile of dogshit. Spewing the stupidity he has been programmed with. Seeing just how pathetic he can possibly be
December 7th, 2009 at 4:56 amOSTL
Just kill yourself you are the most pathetic human being imaginable
December 7th, 2009 at 4:58 amGeneral Betrayus.
December 7th, 2009 at 6:50 amIts a pity there isn’t a single person in Washington who took any history courses, even at the high school level. Otherwise they might realize that US ‘friendly’ regimes backed by US money or guns have never succeeded. laptop battery Nor is it possible for the US to convince a native population of their excellent intentions while they are bombing and shooting the crap out of the local landscape.
December 7th, 2009 at 7:36 amPTSF,
It does not matter what you think. You are not in power.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:03 amHere, Big Bore, something for your arsenal…
http://www.productwiki.com/upload/images/marshmallow_shooter.jpg
December 7th, 2009 at 9:05 amWars are never really won, are they?
Even at the end of the last “good” war, the Second World War, there were many horrible results of this conflict, some of which still endure, others of which were just recently resolved.
The Afghan and the Iraq wars bode ill for our own nation in the next several years.
The search for Bin Laden, Al-Zawahiri and the rest should have involved extensive police work and generous financial rewards.
Much more would have been accomplished, and so many more people would be alive today.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:16 am“EugeneDebs says:
OSTL
Just kill yourself you are the most pathetic human being imaginable”
no..no I think you have that title and are just trying to pass it off on anyone you can to make yourself feel better about being a total and utter failure at life.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:36 amosama is dead. The second they bring him to justice the whole phony war on terror thing..its gotta look like its coming to an end. the powers that be cant ever let the wear on terror end-just like the war on drugs-so-osama will live forever free like a super villian.
we almost had him but he slipped away into his cave hideaway..ok..i read comics when i was a kid.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:41 amPeacethruSTUPIDITY
FOAD punkass troll
December 7th, 2009 at 9:44 amWreckingCrew we already knew you were a stupid piece of dogshit. Breaking out the ignorant I know you are but what am I bit just shows once again how utterly worthless and ignorant morons like you are. Everyone should have a life as good as mine. You are projecting again. You are stupid and a loser and it is apparant to everyone. Just STFU you know you are too stupid to contribute to an adult conversation
December 7th, 2009 at 9:46 amme..all i read from you is name calling. i bet your fat.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:52 amand ugly
December 7th, 2009 at 9:52 amand wear combat boots
December 7th, 2009 at 9:53 amWreckingCrew
The projection from you never ends. I would love to see you lose all your money. It really isnt our fault you are so stupid and pathetic. I do love the WWWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHH from you when you came IN with insults and I returned them. If you read nothing but attacks from me you dont read the threads or more likely you are a liar and stupider than any human being has a right to be. If you think all this whining and snivelling like the punk you are is going to make me stop returning insults to other conservatives well then your monumental stupidity is truly a terminal illness.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:58 amLOL< Why should Obama be any different than those before him! More lies, lies and lies.
RE
December 7th, 2009 at 10:11 amBe Invisible Online
FuzzyPunk
Has your trailer trash whore of a mother taken a break blowing toothless truckers to tell you if she remembers which of her brothers is your father? I know it sucks to be as stupid and hated as you are. My loving wife had schizophrenia. Suicide is all to typical among those suffering that debilitating illness. Its sad no one will ever in your life love you the way I was loved but that comes from being the sick ignorant pile of dogshit you are. My current wife is sleeping peacefully. Even your rubber blow up doll wishes you would blow your brains out, that is IF you had any
December 7th, 2009 at 11:09 amHey fuzzy slippers. I really like the new picture you have linked to your name. That’s really cool.
Only thing I would change is that I prefer Skyy Vodka.
I must have really gotten under your skin for you to have gone to that much effort.
cheers troll.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:24 amPoor beefeater
Still a coward, still a moron, still cripplingly stupid, still a punkass troll
December 7th, 2009 at 11:39 amPer VP at 370 . . .
Further, the Senate isn’t the only house in Congress. What’s the breakdown for the House of Representatives?
If the dude had read through things a little more thoroughly, he’d have noted that I corrected myself in the same entry and he could have gloated a bit. Currently, there are more Republicans in the House with military service than Dems. The tricky part is that they are non-descript new-generation wingers, for the most part, and therefore a challenge to the Chicenhawk business conservatives who’ve had the run of the party for several decades. Democratic veterans actually have some power in their caucus.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:48 pmThis is quite ridiculous. Sending state sponsored killers into a Muslim country to wipe out the Taliban [a right wing religious portion of the citizenry] is like attacking a ‘lump’ using a fork.
What ever happened to “do no harm”. That philosophy is not only advisable for physicians. It’s advisable for any country that wishes to succeed.
I really hope they have plans to “do no harm” and to simply help keep the peace. That is an honorable action to take. Then maybe we can get on with tracking down criminal operations like the qaeda gang and bin laden. The bin laden family could help.
Bush and Cheney ruined everything – this is going to take a while, but we need to stop sending people out to kill right wing radicals in far off lands.
December 7th, 2009 at 5:30 pm