The Progressive Case For Passing The Senate Health Bill
The Progressive Case For Passing The Senate Health Bill
Since Joe Lieberman demanded stripping the public option and Medicare buy-in provisions from the merged Senate bill, some strong progressives like Howard Dean have argued that without a public option or a Medicare buy-in provision, the bill is a giveaway to private insurers and should be killed. Other progressive leaders like Senators Jay Rockefeller, Tom Harkin and Sherrod Brown believe that the bill represents the best chance for passing health care reform in the foreseeable future. “I’m going to vote for it,” Brown told reporters. “I can’t imagine I wouldn’t. I mean there’s too much at stake.”
Change of the magnitude envisioned by health care reformers does not come easily. There have been many frustrations and there will be more. But, as a senior White House staffer with a ringside seat for the slow death of comprehensive care in 1994, I am keenly aware of the real alternative to the bills now before us: millions more Americans without health care and billions more for health care spending as the same challenges President Clinton tried to resolve continue to metastasize unchecked.
So while I have great respect for Governor Dean, and we have worked together to provide the strongest health care reform bill for the American people, I come down on the side of the Senate passing the bill.
Here’s why:
The Senate health care bill is not without its problems. But if enacted, it would represent the most significant public reform of our health care system that Congress has passed in the 40 plus years I have worked in politics. The bill will give health care coverage to a record 31 million Americans who are currently uninsured, lay a foundation that will begin to lower costs for millions of families, and provide all Americans with the access to adequate and dependable coverage when they need it most.
All of us are anxious to see the final language from the Senate. And a final bill must ensure that the subsidies provided are sufficient to make insurance truly affordable for working families. But based on what we know, here are my top ten reasons for why progressives should support the Senate passing the bill:
1. Largest Expansion Of Coverage Since Medicare’s Creation: Thirty-one million previously uninsured Americans will have insurance.
2. Low/Middle Income Americans Will Not Go Without Coverage: For low-income Americans struggling near the poverty line, the bill represents the largest single expansion of Medicaid since its inception. Combined with subsidies for middle income families, the bill’s provisions will ensure that working class Americans will no longer go without basic health care coverage.
3. Insurance Companies Will Never Be Able to Drop or Deny You Coverage Because You Are Sick: Insurers can no longer deny coverage because of a pre-existing condition. They can’t rescind coverage or impose lifetime or annual limits on care. Significantly, the bill also ends insurer discrimination against women — who currently pay as much as 48% more for coverage than men — and gives them access preventive services with no cost sharing.
4. Lowers Premiums For Families: The Senate bill could lower premiums for the overall population by 8.4%. For the subsidized population, premiums would decrease even more dramatically. According to the CBO, “the amount that subsidized enrollees would pay for non-group coverage would be roughly 56 percent to 59 percent lower, on average than the nongroup premiums charged under current law.”
5. Invests in Keeping People Healthy: The bill creates a Prevention and Public Health Fund to expand and sustain funding for public prevention programs that prevent disease and promote wellness.
6. Insurers Can’t Offer Subprime Health Care: Insurers operating in the individual and small group markets will no longer sell subprime policies that deny coverage when illness strikes and you need it most. Everyone will be offered an essential benefits package of comprehensive benefits.
7. Helps Businesses Afford Coverage: Small employers can take advantage of large risk pools by purchasing coverage through the bill’s state-based exchanges. Employers with no more than 25 employees would receive a tax credit to help them provide coverage to their employees. The bill also establishes a temporary reinsurance program for employers providing coverage to retirees over the age of 55 who are not eligible for Medicare.
8. Improves Medicare: The bill eliminates the waste and fraud in the Medicare system, gets rid of the special subsidy to private insurers participating in Medicare Advantage and extends the life of the Medicare trust fund by 9 years. It also closes the doughnut hole that affected 3.4 million seniors enrolled in Medicare Part D in 2008.
9. Reduces The Deficit: Not only would the bill expand coverage to 30 million Americans without adding to the nation debt, it would also reduce the deficit by up to $409 billion over 10 years.
10. Reduces National Health Spending: A CAP-Commonwealth Fund analysis concludes the bill could reduce overall spending by close to $683 billion over 10 years – with the potential to save families $2,500. Even the most conservative government estimates conclude that the bill would reduce national health care expenditures by at least 0.3% by 2019.
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I’d hate to go over this point by point. But these provisions are an illusion. Even Wendell Potter said this bill is so full of loopholes all it does is line the insurance industry pockets.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:17 pm1. Largest Expansion Of Coverage Since Medicare’s Creation: Thirty-one million previously uninsured Americans will have insurance.
HORSE SH!T!!!
Digby: Obama can say that you’re getting a lot, but also saying that it “covers everyone,” as if there’s a big new benefit is a big stretch. Nothing will have changed on that count except changing the law to force people to buy private insurance if they don’t get it from their employer. I guess you can call that progressive, but that doesn’t make it so. In fact, mandating that all people pay money to a private interest isn’t even conservative, free market or otherwise. It’s some kind of weird corporatism that’s very hard to square with the common good philosophy that Democrats supposedly espouse.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:17 pmdoes it prevent the corporations from worming extra profits into their coffers through new loop-holes?
December 16th, 2009 at 6:21 pmWendell Potter said one of the provisions in the bill for small business is that it gives employers the right to raise premiums by thousands of dollars to their employees. I guess that’s just the pay in, not even going to the insurance premiums.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:21 pmThe Progressive Case For Passing The Senate Health Bill
Please TP, please quit trying to make this SH!T acceptable. It isn’t and it won’t be. Progressives are not for profiting off of people’s illnesses. Period!
December 16th, 2009 at 6:21 pmPass this for the regulatory reforms – it includes pretty much all the stuff that couldn’t go in a reconciliation bill – then whip up another bill with the public option (or even better, Medicare for all) and push that one through reconciliation. Win/win.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:22 pmLet’s see why each of those bullet points are accurate shall we? Or not so accurate?
December 16th, 2009 at 6:22 pmI repeat, Glenn Greenwald’s, “White House as Helpless Victim on Healthcare.”
December 16th, 2009 at 6:25 pmSadly, I feel that both sides are going to be declaring victory if this passes.
If it doesn’t pass, I will be very bitter at both Democrat and Republican politicians.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:26 pmThirty dems voted against a plan to allow americans access to cheaper meds.
I stayed away for awhile because I didn’t like getting grief for saying Obama and the white house weren’t leading the way on healthcare – and they were soft.
Now I don’t care. Who wants to defend this now? My wife doesn’t even want to hear it anymore. Sure Obama’s better than Mr. dementia and the bizarro beauty queen , and any other republican. But this isn’t my daddies democratic party and it’s not even the party of my youth.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:26 pmDoes that bill limit corporate premiums from going up higher than a single payer system can offer?
December 16th, 2009 at 6:26 pmUtter nonsense. Better they all just admit they don’t, any of them, give a crap about the citizens, that all they want is more money in their coffers, and then swear a sacred oath that they will, each and all, DIE before they betray their benefactors in the health care industry. Period.
At least that way they wouldn’t have to bullshit anybody. That way, they could lead a totally honorable life, free of lying and subterfuge. Different for them, you know?
December 16th, 2009 at 6:26 pmDoes the bill actually offer more to American citizens than it offers to corporations?
December 16th, 2009 at 6:29 pm#11,
No, anyone who qualifies for whatever type of government subsidy (finally passes) will be paying premiums tied into private insurance rates.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:30 pmyoure referencing the CBO score from November, that will change won’t it?
December 16th, 2009 at 6:30 pmYou guys are all absolutely right.
Let’s all split up into warring factions and let Dick Cheney’s Backroom Billionaire Boys’ Club slink back into total power and finish the job they started, of leading us into 3rd World Glory.
If at first you don’t succeed right away, call everyone else an *sshole and give your ball to Eddie Haskell.
-Be the roadrunner, not the coyote.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:33 pmI find it very disheartening that this is what a Democratic majority gets you.
I find it very saddening to see a diluted version of what we worked so hard to obtain.
Ted Kennedy would be chewing off ears if he were alive to witness all this.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:34 pmToo many are bought off by corporate money. Until we can eliminate the money trail of those making and influencing decisions, I am not sure who to believe.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:35 pmtombaker says:
You guys are all absolutely right.
Let’s all split up into warring factions and let Dick Cheney’s Backroom Billionaire Boys’ Club slink back into total power and finish the job they started, of leading us into 3rd World Glory.
If at first you don’t succeed right away, call everyone else an *sshole and give your ball to Eddie Haskell.
-Be the roadrunner, not the coyote.
Well put… heck lets wait and see what the bill is before we get all hot to trot.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:35 pmand for sure lets dont give them there waterloo>>> if you do we want to be Load Nelson!!!!
This needs repeating…
stewarjt says:
Please TP, please quit trying to make this SH!T acceptable.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:36 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Hey ConservaTROLL why havent you killed yourself yet you scumsucking shitweasel?
December 16th, 2009 at 6:39 pmI’ve got to say I feel like I did prior to the Iraq war. Here I am paying attention and not happy with what I’m seeing. This whole charade disgusts me.
A little background, one sister died at 55, another is recovering from cancer at 55, she had to get onto medicaide in order to get treatment, her insurance wouldn’t cover it. How come the insurance she had was unable to detect the cancer until it’s very advanced state?
I have another sister with cancer, she’s 53 but she gets care in MA. Again, this was only detected about three months ago and she’s been given just a few more months.
I have a brother who’s ill, and I may not see my 55th birthday. I don’t have insurance because I was sued by my provider in order for them not to provide coverage – and they won.
So I’ve been looking at this bill rather critically, perhaps more so than most. I’ve seen what could be achieved and what has been achieved.
I was almost o.k. with a 55 year old buy in to Medicare. There are millions of americans who could use an earlier buy in – and my family is just an example. But even that’s gone.
Seriously, this is shi*. If this is the best we can do I don’t trust the dem.s on any other issue.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:39 pmGo to hell, cg.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:39 pmHi conservative guy.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:40 pmNice job you made a sentence. So anyway I was thinking, someday might you wanna have a conversation?
I’m new to this site. While I’m sure I will be accused of trolling or being some type of evil republican, I don’t really care. What I want to say is this…
I gave money that I couldn’t really afford to give to President Obama’s campaign. I also gave money I didn’t have to the DNC. This will NEVER happen again. I haven’t turned my back on them – THEY turned their back on ME!
This is not the change I believe in.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:40 pmHey conservative jerk,
You got what you always wanted! YEah!!! Everyone in the country is miserable. Yea!!!
…evil prick
December 16th, 2009 at 6:42 pmconservative guy says:
“Hey libs, how is the hope and change working for ya.”
Still far better than the fear and despair that your guy was peddling for 7 years. Thanks for asking.
We have every right to question our President when we disagree on an issue, even if we’re of the same political persuasion…
That’s one of the things that make our philosophies so different, I guess.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:43 pmThe Senate bill could lower premiums for the overall population by 8.4%.
BFD My rates went up 20% this year. In six months the lower premiums will be back to where they were. Will these mandated insurance policies have premium increases tied to COLA, as Social Security payments are? I doubt it.
With 30,000,000 or more new ‘customers’, the insurance companies will just have bigger and deeper pockets to prevent any real reform from ever being enacted.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:44 pmDear John,
And the rest of the sold out DemoRats,
You all suck corporate d|ck.
FOAD.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:47 pm“They can’t rescind coverage or impose lifetime or annual limits on care.”
That’s a filthy lie. The Senate Bill guarantees neither of these things.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:48 pmIt may be smoke and mirrors -
but the subsidies are suppose to drastically reduce the price for low and middle income – I think you guys are overly against it – I understand though, for true price cutting the public option was essential.
I always said.. no public option – no mandate.. but I still think this isn’t as much of a disaster as people believe.
a wider pool would (in theory) further reduce prices – if you pretended that insurance companies worked within some law known as the ‘free market’ – instead of just charging whatever the hell they want.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:50 pmIf I were a progressive I would hold my nose while voting for this bill. It looks like shite, smells like shite, therefor it is shite. The bill is a giveaway to private insurance companies. I have emailed a lot of senators about this piece of garbage and about Lieberman. If the Dems lose seats, this bill will be the reason.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:52 pmIt would be nice if you had done two columns, pro & con, and then made a reasoned judgement.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:53 pmand all of you who are faulting the Democrats are severely confused.
If we had two legitimate political parties that actually discussed and worked out differences it would be one thing.
Instead we have Republicans – the nastiest lousiest sons of B****es that ever walked the political landscape.
and you blame the Democrats? This sorry ass bill is all the Repukes would allow -
we did decent in the house… or did the amnesia set in?
What do we got in the Senate – have you seen these guys?
I think you all have lost your minds to turn against your party for nothing more than what Republicans have done to the nation.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:55 pmThis bill is evolving from a progressive Healthcare reform bill into becoming the “2010 Sickness & Injury Insurance Profit Enhancement Bill”, or simply the “S&I Insurance GOLDEN EGG Bill of 2010“.
We took out the Public Option in an attempt to bring onboard ONE Repug. That didn’t work. We took out the Medicare Buy In to bring onboard ONE Independant. That may still not work.
If we are to lose those two MAJOR features, I believe that in order to keep the Progressive Senators and Congress members in on this cluster f$@%, we need to keep all the insurance reforms, but remove the individual mandate. Allow people to make their own CHOICE as to whether or not to have to buy a “private” insurance policy.
If you want to mandate individual coverage, make it a tax, put that money in a pool and cover everyone. Mandating people to buy “private” insurance is JUST NOT RIGHT!
December 16th, 2009 at 6:55 pmYou’ve watched Tea baggers yelling communism, socialism, using pictures of Dachau, toting rifles, buying the stores out of bullets, talking about the next civil war, lying, scheming, and more lying, bigotry, hatred and their endless obstructionism, climate change denying, war on christmas idiocy, and the list is ENDLESS.
and you think that it was the Democrats that did this to us?
December 16th, 2009 at 7:00 pmEvery time I see one of our smiling dem.’s say how good this bill is I want to throw up.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:01 pmWith premiums being subsidized (taxpayer dollars) to make mandatory for-profit insurance ‘affordable’, we will be have the perfect merging of state and corporate interests; otherwise, known as corporatism (fascism.)
December 16th, 2009 at 7:02 pm1. Largest Expansion Of Coverage Since Medicare’s Creation:
the gov’t has mandated coverage! of course there is an expansion… and if i can’t afford it then tax payers will??? Crazy!!!!
2. Low/Middle Income Americans Will Not Go Without Coverage:
again – Gov’t mandate!!! And “near the poverty line,”??? the subsidies are for up to $90G
3. Insurance Companies Will Never Be Able to Drop or Deny You Coverage Because You Are Sick:
But there is nothing to stop them from charging you $1000/day for your coverage with a yearly limit of $500 either
4. Lowers Premiums For Families:
This is simply the assumption that the market place with self regulate…
5. Invests in Keeping People Healthy:
I have no idea what this means…
6. Insurers Can’t Offer Subprime Health Care:
Again – there is nothing to stop them from charging you $1000/day for your coverage with a yearly limit of $500 either
7. Helps Businesses Afford Coverage:
Again – This is simply the assumption that the market place with self regulate…
8. Improves Medicare:
Medicare was created to be modified… it was the “good” back when it was created and there was the expectation that it would be modified so that by now we would all be covered.. What was it GWB said “fool me once, shame on me. fool me twice… well you can’t fool me again”
9. Reduces The Deficit:
Well it did when it had the public option – we haven’t had a CBO report yet with out it
10. Reduces National Health Spending:
December 16th, 2009 at 7:03 pmSee #9
Public option – they said NO
Extend medicare – they still said NO
co-ops – IT WAS THEIR IDEA AND THEY STILL SAID NO!
They were even going to vote against the trigger.
they need 60 for anything.
they could have got 59.
and you still think it was the Democrats.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:03 pmHELL NO!! there is no case for passing this piece of crap. This is a GIGANTIC payday for insurance companies and drug companies and does nothing to control costs. The 30 million it will insure??? does that count healthy people who will be FORCED To buy a crappy policy from private insurers?
The few good things in this bill could be passed separately. THIS IS NOT HEALTHCARE REFORM its not even insurance reform.
The Obama administration has shat upon all progressives who worked hard and donated money to get him elected. They freely get up there and criticize Howard Dean, but THANK Joe Leiberman…WTF?? I could not be more discourage by wasting my efforts to get this weakling elected.
I will be among the millions of Democrats sitting out the 2010 elections, because this and the bank bailout simply prove to me once and for all the people who really run this country are the banks and huge corporations, it does not matter who is president, or who is in congress.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:05 pmlux says:
and all of you who are faulting the Democrats are severely confused……and you blame the Democrats? This sorry ass bill is all the Repukes would allow -
we did decent in the house… or did the amnesia set in?
There were too many House members for the insurance companies to buy off. The Dems are getting the blame because they are letting the Republicans pull them further to the right. Dems need to stand for something different than the Republicans. Incremental changes are not going to make a big difference.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:06 pmWhat absolutely amazes me is that Sen. Nelson’s successful bid to take out the part of the bill that would have made the insurance industry subject to the anti-trust laws is being ignored. Right now, and -thanks to Nelson- in the Bill before the senate, the insurance industry IS EXEMPT from anti-trust laws.
It was TAKEN OUT BY A (supposably) DEMOCRAT – W.T.F.???
December 16th, 2009 at 7:07 pmAs I struggle with my disappointment in the way the health care reform has dissolvled, I want to believe that this is the first building block on the health care tower and we will get more over time, but I can’t help but get stuck on the words “insurance coverage” — I don’t like that it is health insurance instead of health care. Health care, to me, implies that the system does not rely on the profit-makers, but instead focuses on delivering health care.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:08 pmhey Pags2, hows this for a novel approach; Stand up for the American Citizen.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:09 pm37. lux says
“and you think that it was the Democrats that did this to us?”
Well, Insurance executives, lobbyist, on-the-take congress members and Senators, and of cause the paid astroturf OUTRAGED TEABAGGERS with their drive-by vomitting at any mention of healthcare reform may have had some detrimental effect as well.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:09 pm#9 is right. Pass what we’ve got. It’s going in the right direction. Doing nothing is worse.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:11 pmDep’t of Duh:
“…progressives like Howard Dean have argued that without a public option or a Medicare buy-in provision, the bill is a giveaway to private insurers and should be killed. Other progressive leaders like Senators Jay Rockefeller, Tom Harkin and Sherrod Brown believe that the bill represents the best chance for passing…”
It has the best chance of passing because it is a giveaway to insurers.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:11 pm23 Rich H — I am very sorry to hear your personal story.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:12 pmI wish only good to you and your family.
Passing this ‘for the insurance companies’ bill should in effect get every single senator that supports it voted out of office next time they’re up.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:12 pmJust do it, voters.
Yes, I still think it was the democrats because they started by compromising. They began by making concessions. We have the weakest person to probably hold a government office in Harry Reid. We have Nancy Pelosi who talks tough in public and gives everything away in private. We have a president who quietly sat by and let the “system” work. We didn’t need 60 votes. That’s a fallacy. We could have done what was Morally Right for the citizens of this country and let the republicans cry for all to hear. And we could have assured ourselves a democratic majority for many many years to come.
Yes, I blame gutless democrats.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
lux at 7:03 pm
We are critical of the Democrats because we have all seen this coming, a watered down shell of a bill. If the Dems are really playing chess while the Repubs are playing checkers, then what’s Plan B?
December 16th, 2009 at 7:14 pmWe all criticize our president when we disagree — that is an American freedom. We don’t even get arrested for doing so.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:16 pmBut not too long ago, if one uttered a contrary word about Bush, or had a bumper sticker on a car parked two blocks away, they were visited by the local police.
That’s one difference between repugs and dems.
Repugs do not believe in personal freedom — (women’s health, religion for two examples) except when it comes to their money — then it’s all about their desired freedom to not pay taxes.
The Democrats are Pussies – period.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:17 pmThanks Marie.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:17 pmPiece of Poo says:
hey Pags2, hows this for a novel approach; Stand up for the American Citizen.
If I were Pelosi, I would be seriously considering escrowing earmarks for all of the senators who are claiming the bill costs too much. Then Pelosi can tell the people she is keeping the budget deficit down. How fast do you think a public option would get passed in the Senate?
December 16th, 2009 at 7:19 pmI wanted reform as much as the next guy, but after reading the things that will happen with this bill, I’m disgusted.
You think there’s outrage now? Wait until this thing is passed and the provisions of this bill start setting in. People are going to be shocked, confused and MAD.
2012 will be a bloodbath of mass proportions.
Howard Dean is right on this.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:21 pmWhile I have great respect for you, Mr. Podesta, I must call bullshit.
This bill, if passed as is, will be the downfall of the Democratic Party for generations to come.
Forcing people to buy crappy, too-expensive health insurance will make them deeply resent your party.
Carolyn Kay
December 16th, 2009 at 7:22 pmMakeThemAccountable.com
Pags2, now that you mentioned Pelosi…
Pelosi = Good
Reed= Bad
Harry really needs to step aside. HE (and many spineless ones like him) is the reason I said that the democrats are a bunch of pussies.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:23 pmRich H says:
I stayed away for awhile because I didn’t like getting grief for saying Obama and the white house weren’t leading the way on healthcare – and they were soft.
Now I don’t care. Who wants to defend this now?
I’m not defending it; the bill sucks. I think Obama was too scared of being ‘93 Clinton all over again. Bill, via Hillary, handed a complete bill to the House and Senate and said “rubber-stamp this.” It bombed immediately. Most sober political analysis since then points out that Congress doesn’t like being told what to do. They want input into the drafting.
But Obama went too far the other way, “staying out of it” and not even voicing strong support for any provisions. As if whatever the Congress turned in to him would have had anything to do with his ideas, when he never stated what they were (at least not after the campaign was over).
I think there was a middle ground in terms of White House pressure that got missed here. Too much pressure and Congress dumps it early. Too little, and you end up with this watered-down mess.
.
conservative guy says:
Hey libs, how is the hope and change working for ya.
Timetable for withdrawal in Iraq, Afghanistan taken seriously with an exit strategy as well, some (if not enough) health care reform, and we managed to avoid that Great Depression II thing that you cons were trying so hard to make happen.
It ain’t all rainbows and unicorns, but at least we’re starting to get rid of that shit-sandwich taste of Republican rule.
.
Caro says:
This bill, if passed as is, will be the downfall of the Democratic Party for generations to come.
Sounds like a great GOP talking point, there. That’s only assuming that we drop the issue “for generations to come” like we did the previous times. Historically, if a bill fails to pass, then it doesn’t get revisited for a long time. If a halfway measure passes, then you can always come right back to it, because it counts in the “win” column, which means you can build upon success. That’s how Congress tends to work it. And incremental change is the defining characteristic of progressivism.
If you want it all-or-nothing all the time, feel free to call yourself a liberal, but don’t call yourself a progressive.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:38 pmYes, by all means piece of poo, let’s let the perfect be the enemy of the good… that worked out so well when we killed health insurance reform in 1974, didn’t it?
Good Lord!
You people think that killing this bill will make the NEXT one STRONGER?
Seriously?
December 16th, 2009 at 7:41 pmThere isn’t a damned progressive thing about this bill. It’s a complete sellout to corporations and needs to be flushed. Having a mandate without a public option is a trillion dollar give away to the insurance industry. Or get Sanders to attach his single payer amendment to the military budget bill.
I’m about to join the tea baggers and demand my country back. /snark.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:56 pmMr Podesta,
I appreciate you visiting the old neighborhood to make your case to this community that the proposed health care reform offers some significant improvements over the present fraudulent system. I shall read the links you helpfully provide with great interest.
In the meantime:
I don’t quite understand the purpose of your argument here. It surely isn’t the preogressive public that needs to be persuaded to pass the ‘Reform Bill’—we have absolutely NO SAY in the matter.
Should I list the number of progressive policy positions that have been utterly ignored by our President and our Party?
Your arguments should be addressed to the Blue Dogs, and as I gather you have the ear of the President, you should tell him to get off his ass and actually campaign for this reform in the corridors of power from which we the public are so resolute;y excluded–literally.figuratively and metaphorically.
And may I say I am particularly irked by this little nugget:
“But, as a senior White House staffer with a ringside seat for the slow death of comprehensive care in 1994″
In 1994 the Republicans held the majority in the Senate. In 2009 the majority belongs to the Democrats. How is it that the minority Republicans and their Blue Dog compatriots can kill such a Bill in 2009?
I’d suggest it’s because the kind of ‘realism’ you are touting in this post has been practiced by the Democratic Party since 1992.
I for one didn’t expect miracles from President Obama, but I expected more from the Democratic establishment.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:56 pmThe Republicans are actually staging a coup, and instead of fighting back, this administration with which you are firmly associated, appears to be asking the rest of us to trust you whilst you hand over our lunch money and agree to take all t he Republicans exams for them.
I have to agree that killing this bill will indeed kill reform for at least another generation. There will never be a republican president or Congress who would advocate reform. And the conserva-dems have messed this up so badly, that we stand a real good chance of losing the Congress to the repugs.
IMO we will have to accept this watered down, lame-assed bill and hope that the little bit of good that is contained in it will help keep Democrats and independents on board.
Dems will have to spend all of next year repeatedly telling the public how much the repugs obstructed meaningful reform, and in fact, how they obstructed everything.
They promised they would delay and deny everything and they have kept their word. They are the most unpatriotic politicians. Remember how they cowed all Dems who ever said a cross word about Bush by labeling them as unpatriotic — it’s time Dems did the same – saying it over and over and over.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:01 pmWow, someone voted down my personal story of having a family that battles with cancer.
That’s some progress for you.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:10 pmWow, something like 500 representatives and senators, all democrats supported single payer, then the public option and now what we have before us.
It was all stopped by the republicans and 4 democrats and one independant, yet you all blame all democrats.
perspective is important here.
What will you say when this improves health care and cost and eventually leads to the things we really want?
December 16th, 2009 at 8:10 pm258 democrats in the house and 58 in the senate
closer to 300 I guess but you get the point.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:18 pmWhen you start off a piece by saying, “The Senate health care bill is not without its problems” you know where the content is heading.
As others have commented, there are many holes in Podesta’s claims. The bill needs to be improved drastically. Hopefully, something will happen in conference, that is if it passes the Senate.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:37 pm5th Estate says:
I appreciate you visiting the old neighborhood to make your case to this community
I don’t think the TP comments section was really his audience. Now that it’s hosted here, aggregators can link to this page, which seems to be the purpose.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:51 pmDollars to donuts the mandate gets found unconstitutional. They can force you to have insurance to drive, but not everybody drives. You can’t decline to live.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:52 pmThis awful bill would be, as it presently is written, the world’s largest taxpayer gift to insurance companies in our nation’s history. It is an absolute disaster: it would be corporate Obama’s gift to greedy private insurance companies. Forcing millions of Americans to “buy” “insurance” from these gangster organizations is something that even Republicans would shy away from. Pres. Obama has turned out to be an imperialist escalator in the third world and a corporatist fascist at home. He campaigned for “change,” but he didn’t bother to tell us that he was going to make things much worse…
December 16th, 2009 at 8:56 pmIn all due respect, Mr. Podesta, I will put your support of this turdsicle in the same place I put your support of the Afghanistan surge.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:57 pmSo, are all the ultra-liberals here saying that Obama should have passed robust health care without the Senate? Like, by martial law or something? What’s your vision of exactly how this should have become law?
December 16th, 2009 at 9:22 pmWhen all is said and done John progressives are too busy trying to remove the knife from their back to support this bill any longer .
December 16th, 2009 at 9:23 pmAfter so many broken promises the only real question is , did you ever believe in what you promised or were we all used to put your candidiate in ofice in the most cynical fashion .
I have told my children that when you are caught in a lie enough times eventually no one believes you, even when your innocent .
With all due respect to Mr. Podesta… I would levy this one warning to progressives that think it’s time to just give up and support the bill.
When was the last time progressives dug in their heels on an issue and WON? I certainly don’t remember anything in recent history.
Now, on the flipside, I’ll ask this.
When was the last time progressives gave in and caved to the demands of moderates and the right? … Ho boy, this list is WAY too long. The stimulus? The bailout? Guantanamo Bay? Afghanistan? Climate change? Green energy? Financial reform?
There may be an argument that we should just get in line behind what little good remains in this bill, but, frankly, it’s wrong.
This bill gives far more to the corporations that caused the health care crisis in the first place than it does to everyday Americans that need help. This bill rewards bad behavior by health conglomerates with massive infusions of government money. This bill empowers said health conglomerates to grow even MORE bloated with cash that they can just lobby against any ‘progress’ or improvements once the bill is passed. This bill strengthens the belief that health care is a commodity, not a basic human right in a nation like the United States.
Always choosing between the less of two evils is still choosing evil, is it not?
December 16th, 2009 at 9:30 pmPiece of Poo says:
I’m new to this site. While I’m sure I will be accused of trolling or being some type of evil republican, I don’t really care. What I want to say is this…
I gave money that I couldn’t really afford to give to President Obama’s campaign. I also gave money I didn’t have to the DNC. This will NEVER happen again. I haven’t turned my back on them – THEY turned their back on ME!
This is not the change I believe in.
You are not alone. There has been much mention of Progressive Democrats of America if you are serious about the democratic cause.
On the other hand, I imagine the trolls will be out and about happily using this situation as a means of splitting the dems.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:33 pmWhat should Obama have done.
Well, he could have done a few things. He could have told Pelosi and Reid to come up with a bill that covers all americans and to make it affordable and not to worry about republican oposition. He could have said make as simple as medicare for all.
He could have said, let’s not bother with negotiating with republicans because all they want is defeat.
He could have met with the democratic senators that oppossed the bill and told them he would make sure to throw his weight behind their challenger the next time they were up for election- and that there would be a challenger.
He could have said this is about saving lives so I’m not going to go with a 60 vote majority. I’m just going for 51 votes because this is too important to mess with.
He could have done all those things, and if he failed, we’d all understand that he tried.
None of those things happened. He wants a bill he can sign so he can say he passed it. But this bill is not reform and there is a good chance the dem.s will be punished for it in the next election.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:38 pmThanks Had Enough, I just bookmarked that site and I’ll check it out later. One question though, who are they supporting in the next election?
December 16th, 2009 at 9:41 pmDude that is like the craziest thing I ever seen. What you say about it??
RT
December 16th, 2009 at 9:41 pmUltimate Privacy
Mr. Podesta — You can tell us how important that a bill passes and this one is as good as it gets. Obama and Reid let a handful of senators dictate the terms of the bill. The public option was killed because of the need to appease this handful of senators to the detriment of the whole country. Every potential alternative to the public option was killed so there is nothing in the bill that is a real step forward to reform. Just because the bill includes some reforms does not entitle it to support from the large majority of people who wanted some sort of option. We know the bill is a giveaway to the insurance companies with no competition and that is the exact opposite of what progressives wanted. There is no reason for progressives to support the bill since there is nothing in the bill that is a concession to the progressives. The bill should be killed unless there is some sort of option with the mandate.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:42 pmSince when did youbecome a progressive John. Just because you say you are progressive doesn’t make it so. But to answer you, 31 million more people will have access to “private” insurance, but at a significant cost to the government. To say this bill will save $409bil. over 10 years is obviously not true. You would have to assume the insurance companies will freeze rates to the current amt. You could’ve expanded medicaid without this bill to cover more low-income people. Ins. cos. won’t be able to drop you, but they sure can charge the hell out of you, forcing you to go broke and fall to the government program, medicaid. The 300% more they can charge seniors will force more of them onto the government rolls as well. Correct me if I’m wrong, but insurance companies were already receiving government funds for prevention and wellness programs, which they put into advertising, executive pay, and shareholders pockets. Little or no prevention programs exist now. This bill claims to fix medicare, again this could’ve been done without this bill. And finally this bill reduces national health spending. No it won’t. Any moron with any sense knows leaving the vampires in charge of blood bank will not result in more blood being retained. Unless they know something I don’t know, the insurers will keep increasing premiums double digits each year, and will now have the luxury of knowing the government will be participating in their raping of America.
Guess Obama and the dems underestimated the intelligence on the progressive side of the aisle. We are not republicans or conservatives. We are not Rush or Shawn ditto heads. We actually have brains and we do use them We know bullshit when we see it, no matter how Obama and the Democratic leadership try to sell it to us.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:44 pmhad enough says:
There has been much mention of Progressive Democrats of America if you are serious about the democratic cause.
I think we need to really look at throwing money at primary challengers not across the board, but specifically at the blue-dog “moderates” in the D caucus. You don’t have to live in the same state to kick down twenty bucks through ActBlue.
All of the politicians seem to have already forgotten the potential power of massed microdonations.
.
Rich H says:
Well, he could have done a few things.
He could have told… He could have said… He could have said… He could have met… make sure to throw his weight… He could have said…
None of that is “doing.” Now, I do agree with (and said earlier) that he should have been communicating his preferred vision for a bill – not just to Congress, but directly to the electorate. That would have helped. But you can’t pin the whole collapse on him alone. Making it so is simply not a power that the POTUS has.
.
Rich H says:
He could have said this is about saving lives so I’m not going to go with a 60 vote majority. I’m just going for 51 votes because this is too important to mess with.
I’ll assume you’re talking about budget reconciliation. The problem is, the sorts of regulatory rules listed at the top of this page can’t go into a reconciliation bill. That’s purely for spending programs. So we could get public option that way, but none of the other stuff.
It is not too late to supplement this with a reconciliation bill, preferably in next year’s budget. That would get the public option (or better, single payer) in place to fit in with the rest of these reforms. But in order for that to happen, we gotta keep the pressure on. We can’t scream that we’ve given up on them already, but threaten that they better follow through or else.
In fact, if this bill doesn’t get signed, then we won’t see another significant run at it for another 15 years. If it does, we can run at it again tomorrow. That’s how Congress works; failure breeds caution; success breeds boldness. As they define it, “failure” and “success” has solely to do with getting your bill passed.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:51 pmElBruce says:
I think we need to really look at throwing money at primary challengers not across the board, but specifically at the blue-dog “moderates” in the D caucus. You don’t have to live in the same state to kick down twenty bucks through ActBlue.
Right now I would settle for a massive demonstration outside Lieberman’s offices and home or even the Capitol.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:58 pmIs there any provision in any healthcare bill that prohibits healthcare providers from double-billing for services? As a (now retired) previously self-employed VERY SMALL (one person!) business owner over 50-years old, I was unable even coceive of affording private healthcare insurance. I have spent the past 22 years paying my own medical expenses; and seldom have I not been billed a second (or third time) for services which were paid for at the time of the service, as REQUIRED by the provider.
Over the years, as a mortgage broker, I often encountered clients whose credit was affected by medical service providers placing for collection bills which the client was able to prove had already been paid.
Does any healthcare reform bill address this issue?
December 16th, 2009 at 10:10 pmEl Bruce,
I respectfully disagree. Everything I listed is “doing” whereas sitting on your hands is doing nothing.
I know it’s just my opinion, but that being the case. I think he should have been a much stronger leader. We didn’t elect Harry Reid president.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:12 pmGiven the current state of the legislation which ends up being a give-away to the nations’ health insurance companies, especially with the wording of a personal mandate, the verdict should be defeat for the current bill.. Down the tubes….nada…zip….fin.
Until the WH comes out and says Obama SPECIFICALLY supports either a strong public option or a true medicare buy-in then the bill should be voted down…Dean is correct.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:20 pmElBruce says:
It is not too late to supplement this with a reconciliation bill, preferably in next year’s budget. That would get the public option (or better, single payer) in place to fit in with the rest of these reforms.
Some of the Dems are unwilling to go the reconciliation route for the public option. Once this bill passes, no one in the Senate will want to tackle the issue again for at least 2 years. The Senate Dems have let Lieberman play hardball and now it is time for them to hit back.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:28 pmjudyinnm says:
Over the years, as a mortgage broker, I often encountered clients whose credit was affected by medical service providers placing for collection bills which the client was able to prove had already been paid.
Does any healthcare reform bill address this issue?
I remember them talking about tackling billing practices a ways back, but I haven’t read through the latest version. It seems like a silly thing to have stripped out, though.
.
Rich H says:
I think he should have been a much stronger leader. We didn’t elect Harry Reid president.
Obama should have been talking about the elements he wanted in. Instead of giving speeches that say “whether or not the bill includes a public option,” he should have been saying “we should all be demanding a public option.” He should have been speechifying across the country on why various specific elements needed to be in there, so that the R’s couldn’t oppose them without their numbers dropping. Instead, he did that whole “I’m not going to get involved” thing that he does so well. (/snark)
But recognizing what he should have done isn’t the same thing as laying ultimate responsibility on him for the result. The Constitution is pretty specific on who gets to make law.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:31 pmThe Senate bill could lower premiums for the overall population by 8.4%.
My premiums went up over 10% just this year. Personally I see no relief to paying approx. 25-30% of my income to keep my coverage that has $7,500 deductible and the very expensive4 coverage that my wife needs due to her past bout with cancer. I am enslaved to the phucking insurance co. I will be dead before real reform is at hand.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:32 pmTed Kennedy is rolling over in his grave.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:49 pmI also gotta say, this probably wouldn’t have happened if Dean was still in charge of the DNC.
December 16th, 2009 at 11:21 pm91 – jb,
December 16th, 2009 at 11:44 pmI would put it another way. Teddy died 2 years too early. If he had survived until 2011, this nation would be on a forward path. The tragedy that infected his family has infected our nation as well.
WaltTheMan says:
The tragedy that infected his family has infected our nation as well.
Well, that’s been the case since 1963.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:09 amThank you for writing this, Mr Podesta, but you seem to have missed a core point.
This bill still requires people to buy health insurance. This will drive millions of customers to the health insurers. In many states, like North Dakota, there are effective monopolies where people get no alternatives.
The public option would have given that alternative.
This will also be wildly unpopular with healthy young people with less means. This bill basically forces them to sacrifice. Practically, that is unpopular.
Sure would be nice if some of our Democratic party overlords would address this point.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:33 am.
Dear Mr Podesta,
WHERE IS THE CBO EST. ON UNIVERSAL COVERAGE???????
.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:43 amAlphaLiberal says:
This bill still requires people to buy health insurance. This will drive millions of customers to the health insurers.
Doubtful. Instead, a huge chunk of the country is going to become de facto criminals overnight. Without a public option, a health care mandate is clearly unconstitutional. I’m sure there’s plenty of case law specifying that you can’t simply force everybody in the country to purchase a given product.
If they pass this, they create a situation where they’ll simply have to pass a public option via reconciliation. If they don’t do that, then that whole “Democratic resurgence” thing can kiss its ass goodbye.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:45 amConservative guy says:
Hey libs, how is the hope and change working for ya.
I would vote you up TWICE, because you had 11 words…we may see 12! Anyone want to wager when he’ll reach the dirty dozen?
December 17th, 2009 at 12:46 am.
Dear Mr. Podesta,
The Progressive Cause was for Universal Health Care…
… Anything less is a FRAUD!
To claim otherwise is disingenuous to “REAL” Progressives.
.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:58 am.
Please, peddle why I should be forced to buy CORPORATE CARE?
btw, I.AM.P!SSED!!!
Democrats are nothing but spineless wimps that kowtow to (R)epublican bosses. Ed Schultz called it correct: Democrats think they are the big dog on the block out on a walk with their master, (R)epublicans, holding the leash.
Democrats never fail to bow to the (R)epublicans…
… WITNESS U.S. Health Care. It’s all been about appeasing the (R)epublican minority. It’s all about selling Americans CORPORATE CARE!
For Democrats,
THIS HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE PEOPLE OR WHAT THEY NEED!
THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM IS KILLING AMERICA AND AMERICANS!
.
December 17th, 2009 at 1:05 am“The bill will give health care coverage to a record 31 million Americans who are currently uninsured . . .” Wrong. It will force a record 31 million Americans to buy health insurance from a private outfit.
Why didn’t the dem leadership with their Al Jolson at the podium just tell us that they were going to demand we buy health insurance instead of this bait and switch nightmare that’s going on at the moment.
December 17th, 2009 at 1:32 amThe first rule of medicine is, “Do no harm.” The post-Joe Lieberman version of the Senate health care bill fails that basic criterion. Unless Democratic leadership steps up to fix this misguided proposal, our only recourse will be to kill it.
The fundamental failing of the newest Senate proposal is that it requires individuals to purchase health insurance, but does nothing to rein in what insurance companies charge. It provides minimal support for those who cannot afford this insurance. There is nothing to stop spiraling health costs from eating up an ever-increasing percentage of our national productivity and of individual/family income. Only a handful of the uninsured will become insured.
The Senate bill maintains that the “pre-existing condition exclusion” has been eliminated but will allow insurance companies to charge those with those conditions premiums that are many times higher than those who do not. The Senate bill eliminates the life-time cap on benefits BUT permits an annual cap. WHAT NONSENSE!
Insurance companies will be allowed to maintain their anti-trust exemptions AND get to offer their products across state lines which means they will be able to dominate entire regions AND operate from states with few controls on their practices.
The House bill has two major cost-control mechanisms: the public option and the 85% medical-loss ratio requirement. The Senate bill is on track to have neither, and nothing new to replace them. The Senate bill is a recipe for national disaster. If it’s that bill or nothing, I prefer nothing.
THIS IS THE WORST OF ALL POSSIBLE OUTCOMES. I HAVE VOTED DEMOCRAT. I HAVE GIVEN ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF TIME TO DEMOCRAT CANDIDATES. I HAVE DONATED TO THE PARTY AND TO CANDIDATES.
THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO EARN MY TRUST. THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO AFFIRM THAT THE CHOICES I MADE TO SUPPORT THE DEMS IN RECENT YEARS WERE GOOD ONES.
I FEAR THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED. I FEAR THAT THEY CANNOT GOVERN.
THEY HAVE GIVEN AWAY YOUR MAJORITY LEVERAGE. THEY HAVE GIVEN AWAY THE AUTHORITY OF THE WHITE HOUSE.
THEY HAVE GIVEN IN TO CORPORATIONS AND THEIR LOBBYISTS. I FEAR THAT MONEY IS AT THE ROOT OF IT ALL. MONEY FOR CAMPAIGNS THAT LEAD TO VICTORY THAT GIVE POLITICIANS MORE POWER AND MAKE FOR VERY COMFORTABLE RETIREMENTS. YES, I FEAR THEY HAVE SOLD US OUT.
December 17th, 2009 at 1:33 amI’m deeply disgusted by “the legislative process” which ensures that anything good for americans gets striped out and just the crap gets through.
The public option (and a medicare buy-in) are POPULAR! so of course they get dumped, but the mandate that we have to buy insurance stays in! SCREW that! We the people bear the sacrifice and the insurance companies laugh all the way to the bank. THAT IS NOT CHANGE I CAN BELIEVE IN
The senate democrats are looking like total clowns. 9 months of health care 24/7 and this is all we get? NO! Damn it! NO.
December 17th, 2009 at 2:23 am.
July 17, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83FvLjsUOJg
h/t TPM
December 17th, 2009 at 2:41 am.
Did someone mention Wendell Potter on the Ed Show?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/34438165#34438165
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December 17th, 2009 at 2:45 amFine, pass the damn bill, just leave out the public mandate.
If you tax me for crap health care, I will turn against you.
December 17th, 2009 at 2:50 amKeeping the Democratic Money Machine Well Lubricated
This is nothing more than seeding the campaign contribution thunderheads over D.C. to guarantee Wall Street, Pharma, Big Insurance’s political extortion/bribery monsoon into DNC/DLC pockets.
Republicans, with smaller majorities than Democrats have today, ran this country like a third rate Central American dictatorship for eight years under Cheney & Bush. They destroyed the Constitution, stole the system blind, deaf and dumb while pushing their narrative of hyperpatriotism, fear mongering, xenophobic hate, religious certitude & self-righteous conviction — the perfect Empire cocktail.
Democrats today are no different except in one respect. They never stand up for anything without folding and proving themselves to be all talk and no results for the vast majority of Americans whom they purport to represent.
Surveying the wreckage of what Obama calls the most important advance in Health Care Reform in decades, I can only say the same thing that I said to Karl Rove for eight years —
Don’t piss on my shoe, and tell me it’s raining.
December 17th, 2009 at 4:06 amWith a basic bill in place, however flawed, we can always fix it in the future with focussed bills that can be passed by reconciliation.
December 17th, 2009 at 7:23 amWell, #4 is an outright lie. I work with Insurance companies. What happens is the Insurance company will want a 20% increase in premiums for 2010. Since we have a large pool of people, we will “whittle it down” to say 11.6% (the difference being 8.4%). We then go claim we “saved” employees 8.4%. What a crock of sh!!! We didn’t save them anything, they are paying 11.6% more. This will go on ad infinitum.
December 17th, 2009 at 7:25 amThe question is not whether there’s good provisions in the stripped bill (there are; as well as bad). The question is what the result will be of passing this, and what the result would be of passing a bill with a public option to rein in costs. It’s pretty clear that someone wants desperately to protect the profits of the insurance industry. How about we insist, if they won’t allow a public option, that the anti-trust exemption for insurance companies is repealed. Seems only fair. Such a deal would do much to focus the issues….
Cheers,
December 17th, 2009 at 8:44 amI am pissed as hell!! No more corporate “health” insurance!! It makes much more sense to eliminate the healthcare burden from all businesses so they can compete with the rest of the civilized world. This bill is nothing more than a giveaway to private corporations and further proves that we have the best government corporate money can buy.
December 17th, 2009 at 10:18 amSorry TP, but I have to side with the majority of people here. This bill is a huge problem and only provides the illusions of support. There are so many loopholes in this Bill that most of your points aren’t true.
For example, the idea that 30 million will get insurance? The whole PROBLEM today is the insurance. That is why we so desperately need reform. Giving people insurance that is not guaranteed to be affordable over the long term, not guaranteed to pay ANY benefits, and can keep upping to co-pay helps nobody. To assume giving these people insurance is to assume that they are without insurance by choice. They aren’t. People go without proper health care because the private system is designed to get rid of them for their own profit, and NOT PAY benefits for their own profit. That is the whole POINT of the system…profit.
The bill will make it so insurers can’t discriminate against women? Well, perhaps, but the bill allows insurers to discriminate based on age and some numbers say that insurers could charge as much as 300% more for older people than young.
The bill won’t allow insurers to dump you for getting sick? Lol…except the bill DOES allow insurers to dump you if they believe you have “misrepresented” yourself when applying for coverage. And since most insurers include the old “pre-existing condition” as misrepresenting yourself…they will still be able to dump you if they feel like it.
And none of this addresses the idea that the bill mentions an “appeal panel” where, if I read correctly, insurers can just appeal any issues they run across that affect their profits in the future.
The bill is little more than forcing people to buy into a program that is causing the problem in the first place. And the industry is not required to do anything, in return, that would actually help you. Oh gee, only 10 cents on the dollar profit instead of 20? Glad to know that Obama and the Dems agree that life is worth holding hostage so private companies can profit off of it. Clearly they believe that so strongly they are willing to use taxpayer dollars to feed the monster.
December 17th, 2009 at 10:32 amOK, you’ve convinced me to support the bill. Yes, there are some bits of undigested Sirloin in this steaming pile of dog poo.
My biggest issue is having a mandate w/out a means to control costs or provide legitimate compitition.
Lets pass the bill, make it better, and lets make sure those that fought public option are not re-elected.
The “Sirloin” is not appetizing, but just the “poo” is worse.
December 17th, 2009 at 11:24 amLux said:
I think you all have lost your minds to turn against your party for nothing more than what Republicans have done to the nation.
This is a bipartisan screwing of America, and is not dem or repub, but corporatist politicians who are doing this to us.
December 17th, 2009 at 11:47 amMr. Podesta, why are you shilling for the corporatists?
Is it center for American progress, or corporate progress?
I am beginning to understand the rage of the tea party protesters. There is little in what they say that makes any sense, but their frustration is something with which I can empathize.
I am looking for answers to the questions and concerns being raised by so many. Blank assertions that we should trust the democrat leadership. I heard Axelrod today say that we are on the verge on passing historic reform. Answer my questions:
a) Mandated insurance without competition. How does this make things better?
b) No exclusion for pre-existing conditions but exorbitant premiums are permitted. How does this make things better?
c) No life time caps on benefits, but annual caps. How does this make things better?
Etc. Etc.
No more platitudes. Fact for fact.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:06 pmKill this bill! It is a big win for korporate amerika and a big loss for working people.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:33 pmThis has come up on this site – maybe not this thread but I’d like to take issue with it because it has been touted as being a positive.
The fact that if you are a family of four making 54k a year you’ve been paying 17k a year for your insurance – and that under the bill your rates would go down to 9k a year.
This bothered me so I penciled it out this morning. If you take into account, rent (in a modest not so nice neighborhood), car expense (gas), bills (phone, electric and gas at the lowest estimate possible), food, and taxes (which come out of your paycheck regardless, you physically do not have enough money to pay 17k in health insurance. I don’t believe anyone that makes that amount pays for their family unless they are still living at home with their parents.
This doens’t take into account, clothes, shoes, school supplies, car repairs etc… And forget about vacation and going to the movies.
So let’s say it goes to 9k, well that’s much better. Now you can breath a little. But don’t plan on doing anything. And those night classes you were thinking of taking so you could qualify for the better job – well that might just be out of reach now Because The Govt Just Mandated Where You Must Spend Your Money. And that doesn’t take into account pre-existing conditions, suddenly that 9k could be 27k (a hangnail maybe).
Keeping the lower and middle classes lower and middle while enriching the elites. Way to go.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:39 pmThis refers to Medicaid expansion, not Medicare. My son has medicaid and I agree it’s better than nothing. But it is and will always be substandard insurance, because its constituency (the poor and disabled) have no political voice with which to demand better services. The reimbursement rates are simply too low, so too many doctors refuse Medicaid. And the average voter doesn’t care, because they are not on Medicaid and they think of it as welfare.
This is in contrast to Medicare, which has a powerful constituency with a strong political voice — and therefore enjoys better services.
Basically, we created a ghetto and we’re stuffing more people into it … while simultaneously making it even worse by reducing the rates we pay doctors for those stuffed into the ghetto. I guess it’s better than being homeless.
I think this is exactly the same point raised in #1.
From what I’ve read, this is totally false. The Senate bill allows insurers to rescind policies for “fraud,” which is precisely same limitation contained in most state laws. So this bill provides no improvement over the status quo.
6. Insurers Can’t Offer Subprime Health Care: Insurers operating in the individual and small group markets will no longer sell subprime policies that deny coverage when illness strikes and you need it most. Everyone will be offered an essential benefits package of comprehensive benefits.
Is this true? Does anyone have details about this? Does it rescind Bush’s HSA act, which incentivizes high-deductible, low-benefit policies to be coupled with HSAs?
Everyone here probably knows that “eliminates waste and fraud in the Medicare system” is typical (usually conservative ) newspeak for “reduces Medicare benefits.”
The rest of the stuff in this item are needed reforms.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:55 pmSorry John: Time to get off the turnip truck. The bill is a two-fer. Not only is it a gift to the health insurance industry but it’s passage will result in election disasters for years to come. Best to kill it now and minimize the damage, or better yet, just go back to the original bill written by the insurance lobbyists rather than accept the watered down version before the Senate.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:57 pmWhat have the Democrats done which favors the people over the corporations? Anything?? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
It’s pitchforks and torches time!!
December 17th, 2009 at 1:52 pm>>>>This bill, if passed as is, will be the downfall of the Democratic Party for generations to come.
>>Sounds like a great GOP talking point, there.
Yes, how sad that the Democrats gave it to them on a silver platter.
Carolyn Kay
December 17th, 2009 at 2:06 pmMakeThemAccountable.com
I agree with Dean. KILL IT!
December 18th, 2009 at 10:36 am