Coburn Admits Republicans Are Just Trying To Kill The Bill: ‘The American People Want To Hear Us Say No’
Coburn Admits Republicans Are Just Trying To Kill The Bill: ‘The American People Want To Hear Us Say No’
As the health care debate enters its final stages, Republicans are doing everything they can to slow the process down in order to “defeat” the Senate bill. In recent days, GOP senators have claimed they are working “in good faith” and simply want to take the time to “see a little bit of what’s in the bill.”
Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), who most recently killed an attempt by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) to have a debate about his single-payer health care amendment by forcing the 767-page document to be read aloud on the floor, today let truth slip out. On Washington Journal, Coburn explained that he sees the GOP’s role is to defeat the health care bill, saying “The American people want to hear us say no.” He added, “No is a wonderful word“:
COBURN: Look, there’s nothing wrong with the word no. No is a word Washington needs to hear. The American people want to hear us say no. No when we’re stealing 43 cents out of every dollar that we spend this year from our grandkids. No when we’re ignoring the Constitution. No when we’re gonna pass a bill that says you have to buy something even when it goes totally against the Constitution and the enumerated powers of our Constitution. No to socialism at every turn. … There’s nothing wrong with that word, it’s a healthy word. … No is a wonderful word.
Watch it:
Later this afternoon, Coburn admitted to reporters during a conference call hosted by the Republican National Committee that the goal of his party is to “kill the bill.”
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The American people want to hear us say no. No when we’re stealing 43 cents out of every dollar that we spend this year from our grandkids.
Isn’t it interesting that Republicans only see it that way when a Democrat takes office?
I don’t recall hearing a word from from Coburn when it was George W. Bush doubling the national debt and a Republican Congress approving the invoices.
Heck, not even a burp.
December 18th, 2009 at 8:48 pmBut beyond that, it’s a pretty good bet that in the long-term, meaningful health care reform would SAVE the federal government money.
At least, if the experiences of other developed countries is any guide…
December 18th, 2009 at 8:50 pmThe American people will continue to say NO to the republican party next year at the ballot box! Can’t wait.
December 18th, 2009 at 8:52 pmFunny, it seems like it wasn’t so long ago that 79% of the U.S. wanted Congress to say “yes” to the public option.
December 18th, 2009 at 8:54 pmWho would have thought that Nancy Reagan WAS Ron’s brain. “Just say NO.”
December 18th, 2009 at 8:55 pmThe American people want to hear us say no.
You misheard us, Coburn. What we said is, the American people want you to go!
December 18th, 2009 at 8:59 pmNo, buttwad, we want to hear you say, “I RESIGN.”
December 18th, 2009 at 9:00 pmElBruce: You beat me to it!! I’ll second that motion.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:02 pmIf the people of the United States of America had wanted to hear you say anything, they would not have voted in so many members of your opposition party into power!!!
So sit down and shut up!!!
December 18th, 2009 at 9:09 pm- – Coburn and Inhofe. The Alphonse & Gaston, the Sacco & Vanzetti, the diarrhea & vomit of the US Senate.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:10 pm“The American people…”
Sen Coburn, when you say “the American people,” to whom exactly are you referring? Are you referring solely to the people who unwittingly elected you to office? Are you referring to people from across the country? Are you referring to voices in your head? Who are these American people to whom you refer?
December 18th, 2009 at 9:11 pm“Coburn Admits Republicans Are Just Trying To Kill The Bill: ‘The American People Want To Hear Us Say No’”
Spare me from Dr. Quack Coburn. Yeah, Coburn will hear the word NO from the American people at the ballot box next year for any of the Party of Obstructionists’ 2010 re-election.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:11 pmYep! My voting finger is already itching in anticipation. :oD
December 18th, 2009 at 9:14 pmI guess Coburn didn’t get the news about the elections last year. This just say no policy has the possibility of blowing up in the faces of the Republicans. If this resonates with the public, the Republicans can kiss 2010 goodbye.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:16 pm.
Shorter Coburn:
.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:16 pmAnd only $0.50 of that 43 dollars goes to wars, halliburton, and KBR. It’s only debt if it’s spent meaningfully here at home. War is cheap and fun, indeed. Let’s go to war with the UN and Iran (calling all 19 year olds to do my bidding).
December 18th, 2009 at 9:17 pmRepublicans to United States of America: DROP DEAD!
December 18th, 2009 at 9:18 pmMy party had eight years to put up or shut up. Say what you will about putting up, but we’re sure as hell not shutting up.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:18 pmWho’s the coward voting everyone down?
December 18th, 2009 at 9:19 pmCome out and face me, vote down beeyotch.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:20 pmSeriously, if you’ve got an opinion express it. Or are you like Senator Ensign hiding behind your mothers skirt?
December 18th, 2009 at 9:21 pmYou are right Coburn
No is a nice word
2010>>> NO TO ALL of the republican cult members.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:21 pmWayne, if I may… I suspect the good Senator is referring specifically to the “real Americans” who live in the rural parts of the country.
Elitists like you and me and, well, basically all liberals… we don’t count.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:21 pmReal americans – those without an eduction, low information republican voters.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:23 pmMy party is hoping to kill off a lot of things these days, including the poor folks who have the gall to show their faces at free health clinics.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:26 pmWhoops, it’s tough to type on this little netbook. Excuse my typos.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:26 pmoh oh oh… I just realized why he thinks that…
“is it bad news doc?”
“no… your test came back negative”
That! is the only time they want to hear you say No…
December 18th, 2009 at 9:27 pmDear Republican Party,
As a cab driver here in Ann Arbor MI, basically a blue collar worker, I hve had to learn over the years to graciously accept defeat, no orders, little or no business, positive cash flows growing smaller and smaller on a daily basis: all of this has been on my plate and I have had to learn to move on.
I seriously doubt, ladies and gentlemen of the Republican Party, that any of you have learned a similar truth.
Perhaps when some of you do, all of us will be much better off.
A few Thoughts from
December 18th, 2009 at 9:27 pmTom
Isn’t he ignoring the part about regulating commerce between the States and the general welfare of the people?
Health care goes against the Constitution? Don’t those powers have something to do with life?
Or are you ignoring this:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Interesting choice of words. A doctor using the Constitution to fight health care from a Constitutional scholar, how weird is that?
December 18th, 2009 at 9:30 pmTom,
I think a little deprivation would be good for all of our representatives, especially republicans.
Ann Arbor is a tough place to be in business right now, hang in there.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:31 pmI see our VDT cult member is lurking.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:33 pmCab driver, you’re the guy who makes this country run. My party doesn’t get that. When my party runs on a pro-growth agenda, what that means is making money manipulators who do nothing with their lives look cool. Hence, the financial sectors’ growth as a share of the broader economy.
My party met its goal in improving the economy by doing away with economic growth for the little guy (that pesky Clinton) and making Wall Street look cool. Little people can’t spend and therefore you can’t get enough business. Supply-side economics is such a wonderful approach, isn’t it?
December 18th, 2009 at 9:35 pmLOL>>>
oh i see theres at lease two of you coward cult members.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:36 pmYou can’t have a cult if your all alone.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:40 pmGuessing you cult trolls have no real debate skills.
You are right to hide cause you have no defense for your coward hero’s who run your cult (GOP).
but you voting me down I take that as a good thing.
and you all are welcome, as i have actually done something for my country and have served. So you can be cowards.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:42 pmRich H says:
You can’t have a cult if your all alone
this is true. Howevey i now believe the GOP and supporting cast is not a party but a CULT now.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:44 pmOT
December 18th, 2009 at 9:45 pmI am on vacation until 12/28!
VDT’s and other obnoxios idiots LOOKOUT! here I come ;-)
Oh little VDT, you’ve doubled your numbers! Congratulations.
Now double them again, and then double that, then find two more friends and you’ll make a difference.
Keep the faith and keep working.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:53 pmIn truth, I wouldn’t mind the Republicans trying to “kill the bill” if they had ANY honest arguments against what the president is trying to do. But they don’t! Not one single valid argument against trying to take at least some control of the health care insurance industry away from the corporations it was stupidly given to. They have offered virtually nothing but lies and dishonest positions on the bill. Not one Republican (or Democrat, for that matter, or even Independent-Democrat) will admit that they are opposing health care reform at the behest of the insurance industry. Is prostitution legal in DC? Because there sure seems to be a lot of it going on in the US Senate. These people disgust me.
They admit what they’re doing. They just refuse to admit why they’re doing it.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:54 pm“The American people want to hear us say no.”
Mr. Coburn, the American people just elected this President and a Democratic “Majority”. I believe the American people have spoken and no is something we don’t want to hear.
Whom are you refering to as the “American People”.
December 18th, 2009 at 9:55 pmI don’t believe you understand the democratic principles.
What are your principles?
I think the trolls don’t come out because they smell blood in the water. Their blood. They’re beginning to get our message, loud and clear, and the whole thing about it is that deep down in their callous little hearts, they know we are right. If I were in their position I wouldn’t want to come out either.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:00 pmAnything that doesn’t effusively praise my party, even during the worst of times, will be voted down. Plain and simple. You must be complimenting the great GOP at all times, no matter what we decide, no matter what we intentionally screw up. You either love us more than your children or you support the terrorists.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:05 pmWayne @ 39,
December 18th, 2009 at 10:05 pmI have been considering, this health care bill has become so convoluted it may be best to let it die, and let the Republicans take ownership of its death. In 2010, make the health care defeat a campaign issue and let the voters decide. President Obama and the Democrats have put up a good fight and expended some political capital. Just remind the voters which party killed health care reform. If the public responds, you then have a mandate and possibly a much better system.
The GOP is looking for a way to either make “Ronald Reagan”, “American people” or “weighing all of our options” into another way into saying No in the thesaurus.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:13 pmI am sick and tired of hearing these a$$hats referring to “Real” Americans and flat-out lying through their teeth!
People calling me un-american or a whiney lazy liberal. PHUCK U!
Nothing could be further from the truth.
My experience has shown to me that it is the conservatives and republicans that exhibit a poor ethical attitude. Whether it be personally or in the work place.
These muthaphuckers suck and suck and SUCK and SUCK the lives from EVERYONE else.
Well.. NOT ANY MORE!
RO
December 18th, 2009 at 10:14 pmUh ha. Spit. LOL
December 18th, 2009 at 10:18 pmflight,
December 18th, 2009 at 10:20 pmI want to agree with you. But, I think, even if the Dems do put it out there how much this is the Reps fault. It is still going to have some serious repercutions for our side. And, besides, they (Repugs) are just gonna lie about it and the sheeple will believe them. It’s a no-win for us.
It seems that a declaration of ‘We the people…’ would tend more toward socialism.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:22 pmI, for one, would like to hear him say “Don’t taze me, bro! AAAAAAAH!”
December 18th, 2009 at 10:22 pmRandomChaos says:
OT
I am on vacation until 12/28!
VDT’s and other obnoxios idiots LOOKOUT! here I come ;-)
You lucky so and so.
I look forward to your chaos.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:23 pmThis is all about a power grab. Same old playbook.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:23 pmlivelongandprosper,
Yeah I am ;-) First time in over 5 years that I have had a week off.
thanks.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:26 pmRC
RandomChaos,
December 18th, 2009 at 10:28 pmI like to consider political payback. This time they have to pay for the bullshit over the last year.
Hard ball time, Chicago style, and hit hard!!!!!
Make the teagaggers look like a bunch of pansies.
First time in over 5 years that I have had a week off.
Yikes. You have to reseed your generator.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:32 pmRandomChaos says:
First time in over 5 years that I have had a week off.
livelongandprosper says:
Yikes. You have to reseed your generator.
Just be careful you don’t regenerate your seed.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:40 pm“No” is an operative word, a functional word and at times can be a good word to use…but I would be willing to bet that the 45,000 people that died because they couldn’t get coverage of health insurance didn’t think “No” was such a good word to hear.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:41 pmYikes.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:41 pmYou got that right brother/sister ;-)
I get my first “real” vacation next fiscal year! My spouse is graduating from SJ with her BS in Nursing. Yeah! (Only one of the reasons’s I been working my butt off) And now that things have settled down at work.. I can relax a bit;-)
SJ = SJS (San Jose State for the Trolls)
December 18th, 2009 at 10:43 pmLibertyLover says:
“No” is an operative word, a functional word and at times can be a good word to use…but I would be willing to bet that the 45,000 people that died because they couldn’t get coverage of health insurance didn’t think “No” was such a good word to hear.
the unfounae part of that is the 45k have hear that word NO to many times, its like NO health care.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pmSure, I want to hear you say no. “No, I won’t stand in the way of health care reform.” That’s what I want to hear you say.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pmWell at lease our VDT cult trolls seems to have left. or still lurking, maybe they are coming around to the real facts that they have been used.
Well at lease you only have been used and not abused like the 45k a year who die for no health care.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:50 pmCoburn and the republicans are throwing a long bomb.
They think no to health care reform might be the one thing left to save their dying party.
They are mistaken and they will not complete the pass.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:52 pmflight,
December 18th, 2009 at 10:52 pmI would like that to happen to. But again, unless the administration and the rest of the DNC really, really change thier tune and get down to brass tacks. (which has never really ever happened once throughout history too my knowledge)
I believe the far-right (which includes the conservatives and whatever else you want to call the “splinter groups” et.al)Teh Believers can keep on continuing playing the same-old-tune and the Democratic / moderates and liberals will be facing loosing a majority.
History continues to repeat. We are a Nation of the DUMB.
On Washington Journal, Coburn explained that he sees the GOP’s role is to defeat the health care bill, saying “The American people want to hear us say no.”
*************************************************************
No-o-o-o-o-o…really, Senator??? As if that hasn’t become blindingly apparent by now??? (*Rolls eyes*)
What I want to know is…where were the Republicans when George W. Bush was literally throwing billions of dollars per month into the money pit called the War In Iraq with little or no oversight?? The very same war which the Bush administration (in the form of Paul Wolfowitz) originally tried to claim would be largely funded by Iraqi petroleum revenues? Why did none of you raise even a peep of protest while he gradually turned a billion-dollar budget surplus into a billion-dollar budget deficit — or make even the slightest effort to stop him? Where were the Republicans?? Where were you, Senator?? What were the Republicans doing all that time…PLAYING WITH DOLLS????? (No, not quite…playing with yourselves would probably be closer to the mark!)
If a majority of the American people stand behind the Republicans, Senator, why did they use the 2006 elections to take away your majority in both houses of Congress — and why did they use the 2009 elections to put a Democrat (or what they thought was a Democrat!) in the White House as well as increase the Democratic majority still further in both houses of Congress??
For that matter…since when do corporate interests count as a majority of the “American people”, Senator?? The answer is, THEY DON’T. No, Senator…most likely, the truth of the matter is that the “American people” don’t want you to say no…but your corporate donors (which in your case, as a doctor by training, quite likely include health insurance and pharmaceutical companies) almost certainly want you to say no to significant health care reform because of the potential negative effect such reform might have on their profits.
Senator, your responsibility as a Congressman is to serve the interests of the American people and the good citizens of Oklahoma…not just those of your corporate donors, and most certainly not your own. You have chosen of your own free will to renege on your responsibilities, Senator…which means that you have broken your contract with the people whom you swore to serve and no longer deserve to hold your post.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:52 pmSenator…which means that you have broken your contract with the people whom you swore to serve and no longer deserve to hold your post
Worth repeating.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:59 pmWow. I have been gone for a couple of hours and what the hell. Repugs aren’t even hiding the fact that they want the entire country to stop. They want to stop everything and anything that means reform, progression, and the future success of this country. I need a beer.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:03 pmRandomChaos @ 63,
December 18th, 2009 at 11:03 pmYou know, what has gone unnotice are hearings. I am curious about the Haliburton/Cheney connection, or maybe the Black Water/Republican Party connections (does the Republican Party have their own standing army). The torture investigations are still in the wind but low profile. There are several legitimate avenues to take and the Democrats have been holding off. I say turn up the pressure and force the Republicans to take ownership of their shyt. The rank and file Democratics have to get real pissed, and that may just be happening.
I’ve said this before today and caught heat for it but I’m going to say it again.
Who says this bill is so bad? I just read a thread right here where Weiner and Sanders, two single payer advocates say this bill is still worth passing.
Now these are two very progressive democrats and I trust them much more than the people that are saying this is not worth doing.
Another thing I heard on this thread is how divided the dems are. Again, around 300 democratic lawmakers in both houses have voted for single payer, public option and expanded medicare. They are not divided.
Only 3 or 4 dems, one indy and all republicans have voted against it.
If we don’t get something now that we can improve on, this issue will not be raised again for a generation or more. That is what republicans want to see happen. Just ask coburn.
I see the country going more progressive in the coming years. There is not much chance that the American people will hand the reigns of power back over to people who plunged us into two wars for trillions of dollars while simultaniously destroying our economy at home.
Double negative in this case does not make a positive.
my 2¢
December 18th, 2009 at 11:07 pmWhat is it with Oklahoma?
December 18th, 2009 at 11:09 pmIs Fox News the only channel that state gets?
Fred ♪♫♪ says:
for what its worth,,,, I agree with you the fisrt time and stand behind you this time as well.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:13 pmWe are getting mad at the wrong people. its like you said its 4 or 5 and all the Cult party.
flight@67,
December 18th, 2009 at 11:20 pmI know I am pissed. (see 45) The gloves need to come off. Our problem, as I see it, is we are historically better at defusing situations , look how much the far-right makes us come in and fix thier fcups. Whereas they are better at “propoganda” and instigation.
I hope you are correct, and that maybe this time our side can really Wake-up (read get-pissed) enough to conteract the minority once and for all. But its going to take alot more than just the bloggers and grassroots (I use that in the correct form) activists. It needs to come from our Representatives. THEY need to “light the fire”.
I live in okla and faux is on in every store. It is a red state for sure. Rich oil people and poor fundies.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:21 pmFred ♪♫♪ @68
Your 2¢ = $bizzilion!
as always;-)
December 18th, 2009 at 11:25 pmRepublicans pushed through the Patriot Act, refusing to give anyone time to read it for voting.
Why are the rules different when it’s a bill for the American people instead of against them?
December 18th, 2009 at 11:43 pmlm@74, Because the Dems always try to play fair. Hell, Bush and the Repugs shoved things down our throats and if you disagreed, they labeled you as weak, inneffective and in league with terrorists. As for Dems, they try to appeal to the smartest. Sadly in this country, smart is ‘Enlitest’ or ‘Wimpy’. Doesn’t bode well for the state of our educational standards does it?
December 18th, 2009 at 11:49 pmWell you have to figure the Cult party has been dumbing down America for a long time.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:57 pmFred @ 68,
I’m inclined to take your word for it but I have a feeling the real winners may just be the insurance companies. These boys did not put up this kind of money to lose.
Random @ 71,
We have a fathead Beck Conservative at work who thinks he’s an authority on everything, and there isn’t another point of view that’s American. I quit conversing with the guy, it got too uncivil. I was the only one who would take him on. Today another co worker tried and got the same treatment with the fat head. The neat thing was the fathead was told to shut up because he was talking stupid. I looked around and that exchanged got quite an approval from the rest of us. One comment was “He’s a Beck Patsy”. I am wondering if the conduct of the Republican Party has just worn the voter down, even with a lot of the rank and file Republicans.
I don’t think I’m disillusioned with the Democrats, but I’ve lost my patience with the present Republican Party, and I’m not alone.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:02 amPilot@76, I blame Reagan for that. The whole ‘Government is bad’ still resonates. A whole generation was brought up to believe that. My own father was a ‘Reaganite’ and even he admits Reagan brought down the unions. Sigh.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:02 amP.D. says:
I blame Reagan for that.
I am with you on that if you look thats pretty much the time the country started its long nightmare.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:10 amOnly in American can a Law Maker who is a Doctor say he doesn’t want people to have health care. Even with the Doctor’s oath Coburn took he is still in the job for the money only. We see our troops leaving for Afghanistan without equipment because the GOP Law Makers are blocking the Bill. Notice how Americans don’t see that as a problem as we watch Christmas reefs being place on the graves to honor our fallen troops. Americans and the GOP will be willing to let more soldiers die in 2010 and again act like they really cared by again laying reefs on more graves next Christmas. What has happen to America in 8 short years? Greed/corruption/lies/evil/racism/hate is deeply rooted while a few are holding up this once great country. Millions will die next year without health care as we hear comments of ” to bad”. Law Makers are not only getting paid by the taxpayers but getting paid by the Lobbyist too. President Obama can only sign the Bills it’s the Law Makers who send their decisions we no longer have a Dictator President when Bush left office. Not one American said a word when Bush and the Republican controlled Congress brought this country to this Recession with nothing to show where the money went.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:13 amThis is the wise statesman that tried to warn a rural audience about the “rampant lesbianism” in their public schools that forced teachers to only let one school-girl at a time use the restroom.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:27 amWhen confronted, he/his staff covered quickly and competantly “oh no, we meant ‘rampant thespianism‘!”
(Whew! Good save!)
The only thing worse than having Coburn “represent” your state is having Inhofe “represent” your state. Me? I’m just sticking around to see what kind of clowns my fellow Okies are gonna elect when term limits flense these two pustules outta the bicameral legislature of these United States. Tough act to follow..
Kill the bill, it kills the people!!!!!!!!!From the party of no and the Audacity of Nope……….
December 19th, 2009 at 12:47 amGee, who would have ever guessed? Obstruction? Stalling? I’d have never made that connection. Wow. (snark)
Somebody ought to tell this Coburn clown and his buddies that it doesn’t matter if you dress up in suits and call it the Senate, what they’re doing still looks like a bunch of children throwing a tantrum in a public place. It’s neither becoming of their presumed position nor is it particularly dignified. It probably doesn’t much matter though, given that these are the same dopes that put us so far in hock to the Chinese that it will take a couple of generations to clear the debt, but who still think we have superpower status.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:49 amRandomChaos says:
SJ = SJS (San Jose State for the Trolls)
December 18th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Go! Spartans”
“Go! Sharks”
RC your take on things is very interesting.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:58 amEnjoy your week off and a big congratulations to your spouse!
Tulsa was the original Oil Capital of the World.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:14 amWe were one of the richest cities in the country during a good part of the twentieth century. Getty, Phillips,Skelly and other oil barons here were very philanthropic to the arts and to the city’s other communty assets. Most anyone that was raised here has a link with the oil and gas industy. During World War II, the aerospace industry, Douglas and Spartan, already well established here, embraced the war effort. The Koch family originated just upstairs in Kansas. Then Oral Roberts started his evangelistic empire, which brought many more like him to town.
There are many divisions here in culture, race, politics and economic class. Muskogee, Coburn’s home, in the past, was a Democratic stronghold, more agricultural and a strong minority of blacks, Indians, and a small Italian immigrant community. Mike Synar (RIP), our last true liberal Representative was from Muskogee. He was defeated in an election planned and funded by the NRA and the tobacco industries that he had gone up against in Congress. That was in 1994, and since then Rush and Fox have catered to the states fears, particularly since the OKC bombing in 1995.
I hope I didn’t bore everybody with too much regional history, but from any outsider’s perspective Oklahoma is written off as a state full of uneducated rednecks. Unfortunately, after over a decade of Inhofe/Coburn legislation, that is what it has become.
Just what the world needs another womane in Ugg boots with a piece of cloth tied around their neck in the exact same way as the woman standing next to them….
December 19th, 2009 at 1:19 amDid you vote me down too, dbadass, or are those troll tracks?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:22 amI flagged the spam. It may be virusy.
I have a policy against flagging and voting down. I vote up only. I am a full cup sort of guy….
December 19th, 2009 at 1:23 amokie dokie-
December 19th, 2009 at 1:25 amI sincerely feel (and have experienced) your pain.
Ah, for the good old days!
Never mind. Troll tracks they are.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:26 amI wish they could muster more than just one…
December 19th, 2009 at 1:28 amor atleast make it last for more than a fleeting moment. It is so pointless and silly….
December 19th, 2009 at 1:28 amI like that meme: GOP=CULT!
December 19th, 2009 at 1:29 amI know that, dbadass. I thought maybe you did it accidentally.
Offlogic, have you lived in this area?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:30 amokie- I’m a lifer.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:31 amI just figured what we need – a fight. Harry Reid should put the public option back in the bill and put the bill on the floor. To those wanting to filibuster, fine go ahead, but Harry must make them actually filibuster. Break out the cots and cameras and let’s have a go at it – a final real fight for real reform. That’s what happened with civil rights and it took 57 days.
If after a certain time period we are at a stale mate then fine – go with the weak bill we have now or reconciliation, but at least give us a fight for something we have wanted for all too long. No more of this backroom deal crap and caving into the opposition.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:33 amReid needs to emasculate Lieberman and all the other quislings, in a strictly social/administrative sense.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:34 amReally, Offlogic. You know I’ve heard there is a curse here that makes it next to impossible to leave. I’ve left several times but somehow I always end up back here.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:38 amHopefully, when Republicans ask the American people for their votes in the November 2010 elections, the American people will “just say no.”
December 19th, 2009 at 1:39 amFor real Vote Down Baby you know I am intrigued by kooks and weirdos. Just why is it that you do the thing you do. I mean it is so meaningless and futile? What possible pleasure or meaning can it offer you? Does it bother you to not be able to voice your own thoughts? Is it some sort of dumbass performance art?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:41 amOfflogic says:
Reid needs to emasculate Lieberman and all the other quislings, in a strictly social/administrative sense.
I think Lieberman was shocked by the outrage after he gamed the Dems and he was surprised at the glee people felt after he got put down by Franken.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:42 amokie-
December 19th, 2009 at 1:46 amas screwed as we are politically, Oklahoma does rawk so far as quality of life goes (I’m speaking as a T-Towner, here).
If you can rise above the the pervasive “have a Blessed day/death to the infidels” mind-set, we got it good in Oklahoma. (Okay, you gotta ignore the politicians, too, okay).
Sounds like you are in for the long haul as well… BE STRONG!!!!
Quislings
Its great to see someone call that riff raff what they
really are. Bravo to you Offlogic.
To think the Senate has become no more than a Whorehouse
December 19th, 2009 at 1:47 amfull of moneygrubbin sellouts does not bode well for the
People’s future. We are sold out at every turn. It’s all
about screwing the middle class. Leeches the Lot of them.
Now would be a good time for Bernie Sanders to take anyone to task that has catered to corporate favor over a truly good system.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:53 amI’m getting really tired of seeing everyone throw up there hands like univeral heathcare is just not doable. Maybe a representative from every country where it has been proven that it is.
Surely that’s been done already, though . . .
As far as Tulsa goes, I’m not too optimistic.
December 19th, 2009 at 2:05 amWe just inaugarated a republican mayor that’s an oil trust fund baby.
They announced today, in his second week in office, they may lay off 153 policemen and firemen and over 10% cuts in schools . . .
Sounds like more no, basically.
Pags2-
“Shocked, SHOCKED to find out people are willing to hunt me down with pitchforks and torches!!!”
I’ve started using the term ‘Lieberman’ as a synonym for “backstab”! He’s DEAD to me, DEAD!!!…
…As are all businesses in that state: if the word “Connecticut” or abbreviation “CT” is on the package, the contents are presumed to be traif, infectious, UNCLEAN….
As long as Joe draws breath, the country is unpure, that’s how I feel about this Lieberman cochsuckah.
Joe Lieberman should just do us all (’Humanity’, that is) a favor and choke to death on a fish bone. His photo is at the bottom of every trashcan in my house, so I now love hawking up loogies because they improve the view.
At one point I did like Joe, but now I curse the ground on which he walks.
December 19th, 2009 at 2:10 amokie-
December 19th, 2009 at 2:14 amYep. Name recognition is everything, no matter how big an arsehole you are… voters are Pavlovian critters here for sure.
Adelson!!! Where are you when we need you????
Or Zapata, Debbs, even Virginia Jenner or Accountability Burns, fer crying out loud????
Even ‘Larry Fitzpatric’… it was hard not to vote for him, even in protest (actually knew him when… but that’s another story).
December 19th, 2009 at 2:16 amcoburn must be preggos; there isn’t any “us” to it. Their type is definitely in the crazy minority class.
The repugs aren’t abiding by the rules, as usual, no surprise there. They will play ignorant in a “playful, frilly” performance to obstruct real reform. Their poor performances cause more deaths and grief .
coburn and his ilk are want people to suffer and die while they are twirling around making a mockery of the judicial system.
repugs are up to their empirical tested , quantified charted failed ideology. Being an idiot doesn’t work but they insist we are wrong, we don’t work. Making the rich richer via blood, lies and deception will never work.
I hate to think of the people who lost appendages because the lack of healthcare? I know it’s in the millions. I know I have a few stories to tell.
To the desperate dummies/teabagger/teabaggin/repugs:
A public option allows the American people to oversee the medical field for what it is. It will bring dignity to a profession riddled with greedy slime balls .
F.UCK REPUGS AND THEIR DEATH SQUAD.
We need a public option to end the medical insurance monopoly .
We need a single payer option to insure life.
December 19th, 2009 at 2:31 amWoo hoo, a twofer today! Both my senators make the Nut of the Day list!
Lucky me.
December 19th, 2009 at 2:31 amI thought Adelson was a shoo-in, but the midtowners must of thought the same thing and didn’t bother to vote.
December 19th, 2009 at 2:34 amAnd gawd knows the bible thumpers always vote, religiously.
After a year of Dewey, Paul Tay will look appealing . . .
Offlogic says:
Joe Lieberman should just do us all (’Humanity’, that is) a favor and choke to death on a fish bone.
My thoughts are a little less violent. I think what is appropriate is for Lieberman to become a pariah like OJ. Every where Lieberman goes he is shunned or met with protests. People spitting at him and maybe throw a few tomatoes. I want him and his wife to feel uneasy every time they go somewhere, particularly in CT. Lieberman should always be looking over his shoulder in fear.
December 19th, 2009 at 2:40 amYep. The American people voted the Pubs out so they could hear them say no.
Love that winger logic. ;)
The Hall of Republican Memes
December 19th, 2009 at 5:54 amI personally think some Republicans are trying to kill the bill, but I know not all of them want to… Some of them just don’t want to be unpopular with their party leaders or the core Republican constituent…
December 19th, 2009 at 6:48 amI don’t know if I should pity the people of Oklahoma or if I should be angry with them because they have elected the two most belligerent morons in the Senate.
December 19th, 2009 at 7:53 amWhy all this concern about fiscal responsibility when, for 8 years, they never said NO, and allowed us to sink into near-Depression.
December 19th, 2009 at 7:56 amNow that efforts are being made toward improving the condition of the general public, after the repugniscum fiasco, it’s time to object.
McConnell said much the same yesterdy also.
December 19th, 2009 at 7:59 amThey are bold, those repugs, they announce their selfish political schemes in defiance of common sense and their obligation to good government.
Top3AcaiBerry says: I personally think some Republicans are trying to kill the bill, but I know not all of them want to… Some of them just don’t want to be unpopular with their party leaders or the core Republican constituent…
I know all Republicans are trying to kill the bill AND (not ‘BUT’)all of them don’t want to be unpopular with their party leaders or the core Republican constituent.
Not one Republican has said one word in support of any aspect of health care reform–instead they’ve only invented insane ‘reasons’ to oppose reform.
Republicans as a general rule dogmatically follow their leaders—even the teabaggers who kid themselves they are “independent” rely on Koch Industries and FreedomWorks to organize themselves, and on NewsCorp to exaggerate their actually feeble ranks and their relevance.
And the majority of them who claim to be so-opposed to “Big Government” are actually heavily dependent on the government they imagine is so evil; they are largely southern and mid-western state citizens who receive more money from the Fed than their states contribute, who benefit the most from military contracts, who are most dependent on Food Stamps and so on—all subsidized by consistently Democratic states.
And what’s the point of your supposedly sober and rational conjecture? What are you trying to ’sell’–berries?
Is that what you’ve been reduced to? Trying to earn a living by being paid for simply posting links wherever you can? If so you can thank the Republicans about whom you are being so considerate and sanguine, for that.
December 19th, 2009 at 8:22 amMarie says: I don’t know if I should pity the people of Oklahoma or if I should be angry with them because they have elected the two most belligerent morons in the Senate.
You can at least pity bartcop, who has been blogging from Oklahoma for about a decade now (and just got favorably quoted by Olbermann on Wednesday night’s ‘Countdown’. :D
December 19th, 2009 at 8:26 amflavorino says:
What is it with Oklahoma?
Is Fox News the only channel that state gets?
“I live in okla and faux is on in every store. It is a red state for sure. Rich oil people and poor fundies”
Went to OU for three years. Couldn’t wait to get the hell out of there and I just had to cross the state line to my state. Amazing that an imaginary state line can hold and contain so many idiots. They lost hundreds in a domestic terrorist attack yet still think terrorists wear turbans.
And look at the two “winners” they produced this time: Inhofe and Coburn, the dumb and dumber of the Senate!
Amazing!
December 19th, 2009 at 8:35 amChicano2nd says: Amazing that an imaginary state line can hold and contain so many idiots. They lost hundreds in a domestic terrorist attack yet still think terrorists wear turbans.
I think self-sequestration is enabled by the rural environment which supports and then maintains general ignorance and limited comprehension.
Where I live, in the 13th District of NJ (”the fighting 13th!“), 50% of the population is Hispanic and ‘Whites account for only 30%. The fact that I am in the minority (by that measure) doesn’t seem to have impacted me in any negative way.
If an Okie (or upstate New Yorker) were suddenly dropped into my specific neighborhood they would FREAK OUT because of all the Indians, Pakistanis, Arabs and Hispanics. They’d see terrorists and job stealing lepers everywhere! (Thanks, Lou Dobbs!).
All I see are the shopkeepers who save me having to schlep two miles to the nearest supermarket, the homeowners who maintain their houses and constant self-financed re-investment in the neighborhood (twenty brand-new houses and retail buildings in the last five years on my block and three adjacent ones). If anyone is even plotting any terrorist attacks they sure are taking their sweet-ass time about it. :D
December 19th, 2009 at 9:02 amHarry Reid has just released his “Managers Ammendment” to the health care bill.
According to a congressional quarterly reporter on C-span…this ammendment is designed to head off a successful filibuster vote….yet NO Republican will vote for the bill, in any case.
So…what does this ammendment do???
1. Increase the penalties for individuals and businesses who don’t BUY health Insurance.
2. INCREASE the medicare Payroll tax.
3. Strengthen the anti Abortion Language.
Grrrr.
December 19th, 2009 at 9:10 amHey Doc, what ever happened to “Do no harm?” Are you ready to take full responsibility for the hundreds or thousands who will die before their time? You and yours separate so easily from the lives of millions, and cover yourselves, ironically, by saying it’s for their own good!
December 19th, 2009 at 9:17 amRepublicans say NO only to everything and anything that might make life more pleasant for American citizens. When it comes to global mayhem, to death, destruction, to torture and rendition, to international plots to overthrow legitimate governments for no reason than to extend the arm of American influence and control, to illegitimate aggressive war, they puff out their chests, stand tall, salute the flag, and take the course of the true cowards they are.
The Republican Party is the party of true and applied domestic fascism; they disavow the individual invariably in favor of the corporation, and their only true collective goal is to accumulate money, wealth, and power. They are, truly, the most destructive and despicable force in this nation today, and when measured in terms of national destruction potential they make the communist “threat” of years gone by appear to be laughably benign, even benevolent, by comparison.
December 19th, 2009 at 9:41 amBreaking News: Its being reported that Sen Ben Nelson will support senate health care bill. It looks like Reid now has his 60 votes.
December 19th, 2009 at 9:43 amLet them, and start over again in the House using Reconciliation!
December 19th, 2009 at 9:54 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The sick and uninsured should lie down at his door step, because after all he’s a Dr. and he’s already said that he will take care of everyone! BTW what was his brilliant solution? It must be something like: “Lets study it for another 15 years, and then we can count the dead to see if reform is worth it.”
December 19th, 2009 at 9:59 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Popatop, first off maybe 61% are against the senate bill because the public option is not there.
Second. The threat about the Offut Air base is pure BS.
December 19th, 2009 at 10:03 amangels 81
Yes, I too heard that Ben Nelson is finally on board to let the health care bill go forward – I don’t know what more was conceded to him, but I know Barbara Boxer was included in the latest meetings.
The Senate also approved the military spending early this morning — the one the repugs were delaying in their efforts to halt health care reform.
Just recall how Dems were vilified a few years ago when they expressed doubt about the invasion of Iraq, but they didn’t hold up any votes — they were “unpatriotic traitors” but today the repugs can halt funding and are proud to do so.
IOKIYAR
December 19th, 2009 at 10:05 amPopatop must stop believing the lies he hears on Fox.
Everyone from the White House to Nelson himself has denied that such threats were used. In fact – presidents cannot shut down bases — that is under the purview of Cognress.
If you are only going to come here to repeat lies with no facts to back you up, please go away.
December 19th, 2009 at 10:07 amThe Republicans have forced the Senate Clerk(s) to READ out loud, the entire Managers Amendment.
Fascinating TV now on c-span 2 :/
It does appear that Harry Reid has his 60 votes. Sen. Boxer and Sen. Nelson must have reached agreement on Abortion Language.
So the Republicans have FAILED to Kill the Bill. Obama will get to claim Victory.
The Bill was not killed, but I sincerely worry about its Quality of Life.
December 19th, 2009 at 10:18 amCoburn’s error is confusing “the American people” he professes to represent with the conspiracy people he does represent.
It’s not unusual for religious fundamental cultists to be confused or believe in pretend things.
December 19th, 2009 at 10:18 am5th estate
I just checked out bartcop at your recommendation. I may become a regular visitor.
December 19th, 2009 at 10:20 amPopatop doesn’t really believe that. Pops just realizes that it is a slow Saturaday morning and is trying to do a community service by offering a lame attempt to stir the pot….
December 19th, 2009 at 10:20 amI wish thie circus performance of the repugniscum party would be carried by the msm — too many people how no idea what their elected officials are doing to them and the operation of the government.
December 19th, 2009 at 10:23 amMarie says: 5th estate: I just checked out bartcop at your recommendation. I may become a regular visitor.
It was more of a “tip o’ the hat” than a recommendation (hence the lack of a direct hyperlink in my comment) but I’ve been visiting bartcop practically every week since I became part of the blogosphere.
December 19th, 2009 at 10:45 amI find the site a bit confusing, but very engaging, and though as far as I know Bart doesn’t actually comment here at TP he’s a regular “lurker” and not only links to TP posts quite often but also quotes (and credits) comments he likes that are made here.
ReMarker says: Coburn’s error is confusing “the American people” he professes to represent with the conspiracy people he does represent.
From what I’ve seen his main constituency is the Bad Hairdressers of America–he seems to represent them very well.
December 19th, 2009 at 10:48 amSen. Tom Coburn (R-OK)is a Freakin Liar!!!
65% of the American people want affordable Health Care and
95% of the American people would want affordable Health Care if they didn’t listen to the lies of the evil Republican/Conservatives or the deceitful Fox News…
Think about it, only those sick in the soul do not want affordable Health Care for their FELLOW AMERICANS.
December 19th, 2009 at 10:52 amThere’s those magic words, “The American People”. Next time I get pulled over by the cops I’ll say; “The American people don’t want me to get a ticket”.
December 19th, 2009 at 11:05 am‘The American People Want To Hear Us Say No’
When the GOP stands and says, “No,
December 19th, 2009 at 11:13 amThe Dem’s way is not how we’ll go.”
Americans hear…
Will tell them next year
If they buy in or think it’s a blow
Wax up Vote Down Baby? Wanna talk about it?
December 19th, 2009 at 11:18 amVote Down Baby:
December 19th, 2009 at 11:18 amDid you turn my z into an x?
I don’t think the Vote Down Baby likes me. I think the Vote Down Baby is frustrated that I make the Vote Down Baby look like a clown. Still I think it is sort of a love/hate sort of deal because Vote Down Baby recognizes that without my attention no one would care about their futile transient little votes…
December 19th, 2009 at 11:20 amThe VDT is back — silently getting his jollies with his little mouse.
December 19th, 2009 at 11:22 amWho wants to bet that Vote Down Baby is busy on the two threads directly beneath this one? I think I will go check… See ya there Vote Down Baby…
December 19th, 2009 at 11:25 am“144. Fontsdeleon says:”
Lol, I see you have an understanding of ‘framing the debate’.
I really don’t understand why the Dems didn’t name this the “Freedom For The American People Health Care bill”.
“Framing the issues: UC Berkeley professor George Lakoff tells how conservatives use language to dominate politics”
December 19th, 2009 at 11:41 amhttp://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml
Coburn is living in an alternate reality , the vast majority want real reform in the form os single payer . They want the public option in lieu of that or the medicare buy in .
December 19th, 2009 at 11:51 amThe loss of those in the senate bill coupled with the mandate does however destroy public support for the senate legislation .
His support for the constitution is laughable after 8 years of the worst abuses in our history during which time he and the rest of the republican party were entirely silent .
Bottom line however is that only 33% of the citizenry support this legislation without the PO or buy in and forcing it on them with a mandate to purchase it will be a disaster for the democrats .
dbadass says:
——————————————————————————–
Popatop doesn’t really believe that. Pops just realizes that it is a slow Saturaday morning and is trying to do a community service by offering a lame attempt to stir the pot….
dbadass says:
——————————————————————————–
Wax up Vote Down Baby? Wanna talk about it?
dbadass says:
——————————————————————————–
Vote Down Baby:
Did you turn my z into an x?
dbadass says:
——————————————————————————–
I don’t think the Vote Down Baby likes me. I think the Vote Down Baby is frustrated that I make the Vote Down Baby look like a clown. Still I think it is sort of a love/hate sort of deal because Vote Down Baby recognizes that without my attention no one would care about their futile transient little votes…
dbadass says:
——————————————————————————–
Who wants to bet that Vote Down Baby is busy on the two threads directly beneath this one? I think I will go check… See ya there Vote Down Baby
December 19th, 2009 at 11:57 am——-
Sorry DB is there a comment in all that spam somewhere that deals with either politics in general or the subject of this thread ?
Just asking .
Hi Star:
December 19th, 2009 at 11:59 amIs there a reason you didn’t jump into the extensive discussion of education the other day or the numerous climate discussions? How about all the talk of tax policy?
the vast majority want real reform in the form os single payer . They want the public option in lieu of that or the medicare buy in .
—–
Star I think your argument would be stronger if you supported this statement with some data that would make it less refutable.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:04 pmHealth Sector Contributions to Members of the 111th Congress, 1989-2009*
Name Office State Health Sector** Health Insurance Pharma Health Pros Hospitals Nursing Homes
December 19th, 2009 at 12:05 pmObama, Barack P IL $20,144,316 $1,552,981 $2,132,573 $12,108,983 $2,881,638 $244,190
McCain, John S AZ $9,027,044 $736,884 $902,915 $6,325,601 $658,250 $152,950
Kerry, John S MA $8,344,060 $687,434 $887,043 $4,717,648 $1,306,997 $169,190
Specter, Arlen S PA $4,521,093 $382,228 $1,238,916 $1,738,490 $795,928 $92,100
Baucus, Max S MT $3,902,881 $675,349 $1,099,605 $1,401,776 $421,542 $232,949
Only 33% of the public support the senate bill . Kill the bill and send it back to the house or atleast admit the wishes of the voting public , just as in the case of single payer ,is being ignored by their elected representitives .
December 19th, 2009 at 12:08 pmWhat are the wishes of the voting public?
December 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pmPoll: Voters Reject Health Care Mandate Without Public Option, Medicare Buy-In
by Rachel Weiner
A new poll suggests that voters are not pleased by the idea of health insurance mandates without a public option or a Medicare expansion.
The recent poll commissioned by the PCCC found that one third of Democrats are less likely to vote in 2010 if the health care bill does not contain a public option. (Huff file photo)Conducted by Research 2000 for the Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC), the survey finds only 33 percent of likely voters favor a health care bill that does not include a public health insurance option and does not expand Medicare, but does require all Americans to get health insurance. Slightly more Democrats — 37 percent — favor the idea, while only 30 percent of Republicans and 31 percent of independents do.
Meanwhile, if the public option and Medicare buy-in are added, 58 percent of people support the idea. The number of Republican supporters drops to 22 percent, but independent support rises to 57 percent and Democratic support to a whopping 88 percent.
“This poll shows voters in full-blown revolt against the Senate bill,” said PCCC co-founder Stephanie Taylor. “Only one-third of voters support mandates without a public option, while nearly two-thirds want the public option and Medicare expansion. This will be a disaster of epic proportions for Democrats in 2010 if it’s not fixed — fast.”
Another recent poll commissioned by the PCCC found that one third of Democrats are less likely to vote in 2010 if the health care bill does not contain a public option.
© 2009 Huffington Post
December 19th, 2009 at 12:13 pmJun 9, 2009 … Polls consistently show that two-thirds of the American people want single-payer. At a recent hearing in Montana convened by Sen. …
December 19th, 2009 at 12:16 pmhttp://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/june/hold_out_for_single_.php
I have some concerns about interpretation of these data. Not that I don’t agree I just refuse to think that becuase I may have a certain worldview that somehow it represents the majority. The PCCC may not be the best source if the goal is to generalize about the views of a larger more diverse representation of the pulse of the voters… Know what I mean?
December 19th, 2009 at 12:19 pmObama has taken the prize for the most funds accepted from the insurers , he even beats Baucus .
December 19th, 2009 at 12:22 pmhttp://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/18/john-kerry-attacks-howard-dean-for-fun-and-profit/
What Americans want them to say “no”. The 21% who still call themselves Republicans. A large majority of Americans want health care reform with a public option. I’m betting even a majority of people in Coburn’s state want health care reform with a public option.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:23 pmfreeman ironically posts a 180 word post doing nothing but chastising dbadass for being off topic.
does freeman understand why people find him to be obtuse?
December 19th, 2009 at 12:25 pmThe Podesta group has done very well providing the insurers access .
December 19th, 2009 at 12:26 pmhttp://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Obama_s-revolving-door-always-open-to-Podestas-8477690-68909072.html
“This poll shows voters in full-blown revolt against the Senate bill,” said PCCC co-founder Stephanie Taylor. “Only one-third of voters support mandates without a public option, while nearly two-thirds want the public option and Medicare expansion. This will be a disaster of epic proportions for Democrats in 2010 if it’s not fixed — fast.”
December 19th, 2009 at 12:29 pmI agree with the authors conclusion . This will be a disaster for the democrats without a public option come next Nov.
When is freeman going to come out of the closet and admit he is a right wing tool?
December 19th, 2009 at 12:29 pmHi Fred:
December 19th, 2009 at 12:31 pmIt’s cool. Star is still a little hurt about that whole Another Joe list. Consistency and objectivitiy is the first casualty of emotion.
You can fool some of the people some of the time …
Hard to know what the polls mean now considering the bill is in a constant state of flux and the Republicans constantly spew lies in front of the cameras. That being said I know how freeman is going to vote.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:32 pmYou guys are cheering as the democratic party drives off a cliff .
December 19th, 2009 at 12:32 pmfreeman:
December 19th, 2009 at 12:33 pmWill you be faulting the president should meaningful healthcare fail or will you be commending the effort to tackle a complex issue. You hope this bill fails and I respect that but how do you suggest that the process be moved forward toward the end you seek?
and you are showing no evidence of your Quadraphenic conclusion….
December 19th, 2009 at 12:34 pmI have insurance and I desperately want a public option. But if I was one of those unable to get any coverage now I would probably be happy that they are going to pass a bill that would get that for me. Perhaps nobody who already gets government run health insurance, say all Medicare/Medicaid recipients and government workers, should be allowed a vote in the polls.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:35 pmI don’t hear any cheering.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:35 pmPassing unpopular legislation is one thing ,mandating that the public cough up large amounts of money during the worst economic climate since the great depression is political suicide .
December 19th, 2009 at 12:36 pmThanks for your faux concern freeman.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:36 pmOn one side, I am surprised the Republicans are still saying no to this version. It has been watered down, gutted of almost all meaningful reform, includes mandates for purchase of health insurance from their good buddies and basically been reformatted in their image. It should be a slam dunk vote for them.
I see their reluctance coming from two levels. One is that it happening in a Democratic environment and they just have that gut level need to blast anything coming from that direction.
Even more, I think they fear the foot-in-the-door. Just like SS, Medicare and civil rights, once it is brought out in the open and anything happens in a positive direction, all of their lies and fears get exposed as being just that. Right now inertia is working for them but once movement begins, it will work against them.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:37 pmI have insurance I pay for my employees. I already am coughing up huge amounts of money during the worst economic climate. And after spending all that money on insurance I can barely afford to go to the doctor because of huge co-pays.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:38 pmBy sending it back to the house and using reconciliation which Bush did repeatedly , which only requires 51 votes in the senate , thereby hamstringing the blue dog opposition .
December 19th, 2009 at 12:38 pmI think your right Hooda. I think the Democrats are making the annoying concessions because they have to get their foot-in-the-door now. Any later and it’s too close to elections and candidates will be scared to do anything.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:40 pmI’m concerned about the poor Shane … your concern is over your pocketbook as a business owner with employees , that speaks volumes about what your stake is in this debate .
December 19th, 2009 at 12:41 pmReconciliation isn’t as simple as it sounds. Not everything can be handled in reconciliation.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:41 pmWeiner and Sanders support this bill. You don’t.
Hmmmmmm, who should I trust?
December 19th, 2009 at 12:43 pmBy sending it back to the house and using reconciliation which Bush did repeatedly , which only requires 51 votes in the senate , thereby hamstringing the blue dog opposition .
—
December 19th, 2009 at 12:44 pmAnd the ideal bill you wish will include what and will be funded how so as to avoid the suicide you speak of and that acknowledges the forces that exist in the reality based world?
The poor won’t have to buy insurance freeman. There you go using your right wing talking points again. I do without a lot to pay for health insurance for my family and the families of my employees. And without some reform my insurance will be up to $20k a year per employee in the next few years and I’ll be out of business. Most of our customers are poor and we do lots of favors for them. So phu(k you freeman and your Republiscum agenda that care nothing about the poor.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pmI believe they said reconciliation can only be used for funding and not for regulating.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:47 pmNever said it would be easy . But compared to the senate bill as it now stands it has few downsides . The popular support is not there and for good reason , this bill would be a transparent hand out to the corporations over the wishes of the citizens .
December 19th, 2009 at 12:47 pmMaybe someone should have spent less time with that posse comitatus stuff and more with =concern for the poor at that meeting that narcissitic image had to be posted of
December 19th, 2009 at 12:48 pmfreeman, you do yourself poorly when you accuse someone of posting honest, first hand information about the real troubles they face by claiming the interest is selfish.
Small business and the middle class is the engine that drives this economy. Thumbing your nose at that really puts anything you say in a very holier-than-everyone light.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:49 pmI believe they said reconciliation can only be used for funding and not for regulating.
Also how I understand it.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:50 pmThat Spain Portugal thing would assist many of the poor at home…
December 19th, 2009 at 12:52 pmRight Hooda, so if they scrap what they have and go to reconciliation they lose all the pre-existing condition stuff so important to those denied coverage.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:53 pmYour worried about the middle class but who is it that will be paying their insurance under the senate plan .According to the CBO the stronger the public option the lower the cost to the taxpayer .
December 19th, 2009 at 12:55 pmWhich can be legislated separately as Dean has pointed out .
December 19th, 2009 at 12:56 pmWe are fighting a very efficient machine here. The Republicans and their corprocrat cronies have been working for 30 years to desensitize the populace. They have slowly sold greed and violence and hamstrung education. They have turned our media from a watchdog to a trained poodle.
We can’t expect to undo all of that with one single bill. It is a poor coach who tells his team to trust the 80 yard Hail Mary pass in the final seconds of the game as the way to win. It takes teamwork and effort through the game. Every first down counts.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:59 pmSo will you be faulting or commending the president for tackling the issue? Is this a hard question?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:02 pmHow do artists fund their healthcare? Trustfund kids maybe?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:03 pmDB I could explain why my trips are essential for my family but that has never worked out very well with you .
December 19th, 2009 at 1:04 pmTrying to derail the thread by making me the topic again DB ?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:05 pmIt’s a yes or now question. You spent 180 words off topic chastising dbadass for being off topic, remember?
are you afraid to answer the question? If so, why?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:08 pmNo just being Socratic. Before we can understand our opinions we have to be made to reflect upon them…. Hoping to just control it by announcing the “World According to Star” again? Still I am sort of interested in why you thought Star was a cooler name then the one your folks picked out for you…
December 19th, 2009 at 1:09 pmYes that is not an easy question .I suppose it hinges both on his motivation , who profits from it and the legislation that comes out of it in the end .
December 19th, 2009 at 1:10 pmSorry if that isn’t as simple an answer as you would like .
The biggest reason not to kill the bill is because that is exactly what the Republicans have been aiming for. They will then claim their victory and the MSM will play cheerleader for them.
There are a few key points the Dems need to stand firm on. No mandates. Strong regulations on no pre-existing. A strong mandate to the HI companies to provide the services they contract to provide and take away their unilateral ability to change the rules whenever they feel like it.
Controlling the HI companies isn’t as good as single payer or PO but it would be a huge start. A size 13 steel toe in the door.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:12 pmEverything else is black and white with you, why are you moonwalking now?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:12 pmDB I could explain why my trips are essential for my family but that has never worked out very well with you .
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December 19th, 2009 at 1:12 pmThat doesn’t make any sense because an nonevent could not have ever had an effect in the past by virtue of the fact that cause can not occur in the absence of effect. See what I mean
We’re not the ones picking groups to support. We want all Americans covered and we’d prefer single payer. You can’t always get what you want.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pmOh and that reality bsed world you inhabit, does it include the fact that the US spends as much as the rest of the planet combined but is the only industrialized nation which doesn’t have universal healthcare for it’s citizens ?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pmOoops On it’s military .
December 19th, 2009 at 1:16 pmAnd the fact that 33% of the electorate hate the senate legislation?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:17 pmfreeman is prejudging motivation without even know what the outcome is. Like any other Foxbot he assumes everything President Obama does is for his own selfish ends.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:18 pmOoo, Oooo, I know the answer to that one.
Yes.
And it also includes working to change that in steps.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:18 pmDamn I need a cup of coffee , I’m posting too fast . Only 33% support thre senate’s legislation .
December 19th, 2009 at 1:18 pmDoes freeman have a reading comprehension problem. Or is he only able to spout the talking points on his script as a a fake progressive right wing tool?
December 19th, 2009 at 1:20 pmOh and that reality bsed world you inhabit, does it include the fact that the US spends as much as the rest of the planet combined but is the only industrialized nation which doesn’t have universal healthcare for it’s citizens ?
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December 19th, 2009 at 1:20 pmYes. yes it does. See that is what we mean by reality. Doesn’t mean I think it is the way it should be. What is the point you were trying to make?
Maybe freeman thinks he would have been better off with Johny ‘Crash and Burn’ and Mooseboogers. I’m sure they would have stepped right up, solved all our economic problems and turned us back into the free market Utopia we were enjoying last Labor Day.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:21 pmHoodathunk and Shayne
You each have explained reasons why this bill must pass – and I agree.
We all think the bill is lame, too full of concessions, and not a big savings to the average person, BUT, this is the first step.
Reconciliation is used for budgetary matters; so much of what is good in this bill would be lost (there’s not a lot of good, but why voluntarily lose even more?).
Next year, we will certainly lose seats in both houses – we can only hope that we retain control; we may not, and if not, we will never see the health care reform bill again. Even if Obama is re-elected in 2012, to try reform then would be as bad, if not worse (if that’s possible) than this year because the repugs will be emboldened to be even more obstinate.
If he is not reelected in 2012, good by to HCR for at least a decade. Can we really afford the status quo for that long?
This bill will give Dems a chance to tweak a few more positive changes in the coming year – something they will want to do before congressional election time. And they can most likely do them with 51 votes.
Let’s see what the House/Senate final bill is after conference. Obama will sign it before the SOTU address. We can focus then on the other equally pressing matters: jobs, wars, and the environment.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:22 pmSo anyway what do you want to happen to get this universal healthcare? Should I scream posse comitatus three times while b itching endlessly that the president trying to move in that direction in some sort of pragmatic way isn’t doing what my struggling artist self thinks should be done? I smell a rat in the real agenda of Robert… I hope I am wrong.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:23 pmIt has been pointed out numerous times that the reasons public support is dropping are:
December 19th, 2009 at 1:26 pm- the phrasing of the polling questions is leading
- when questions are analyzed, the public is broadly in support
- the liberals think the current bill is too weak
- the teabaggers have won over the low-information voters, who are voting against their own best interests.
I see freeman and probably a lurking vdt is voting us down immediately upon posting.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:27 pmMarie, I am not convinced the Dems will lose seats in 2010. If no real HCR bill is passed, it will be more possible. If economic regulation is handled properly and the economy continues recovering, that will help. And if we can get at least a start on HCR that will help boost the economy.
The crazed 20% crowd can help by keeping up the screeching of nonsense.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:29 pmI just discovered something I didn’t know about Coburn.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:33 pmHe built up Coburn Opticals’ sales, founded by his parents, from $100,000 to $40 million, in the 70’s. He returned to school and didn’t start practicing obstetrics until 1986.
Not quite the smalltown doc image that most of his bio’s project.
freeman, why do you think your attitude of ‘my way is the only way’ is any different than a troll? You seem to have no more of an idea of concession or discussion than the righty types. You are right and everyone else is a fool because they can’t see it.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:33 pmokie dokie says:
Ok, maybe it’s tacky but I’m not surprised he decided to go into OB/GYN. Somehow I doubt its because he likes delivering babies.
Nor am I surprised he decided to get out of it.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:38 pmSupposedly he is still practicing, Hoodathunk.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:46 pmOB/GYN is a great career for someone with control issues.
His family’s company was in Virginia, and he was born in Wyoming.
I’m not too sure what brought his family to Oklahoma.
I saw mention of Revlon taking it over.
Yes, the gynecological control of what goes into and out of a woman’s uterus… But more than this, I think the entire world view of the C Street pseudo-Christians is starting to crumble before their eyes. Inhofe played the fool in Copenhagen, and so many others have looked like the lowdown power-mongers and misogynists that they are (Ensign, abetted by Coburn, insisting that women exist for men’s pleasure, not to mention Sanford and Chickering) on a wider and wider stage.
They have not been a force for good in the world, supporting so many strongmen and dictators, even in opposition to official US Policy. Time to throw these rascals out.
December 19th, 2009 at 1:59 pmKill Bill.
December 19th, 2009 at 2:44 pmMr Duke
STFU and FOAD
December 19th, 2009 at 2:54 pmMr Duke:
December 19th, 2009 at 3:04 pmI also think you are a faker. Are you a faker Mr. Duke?
I saw mention of Revlon taking it over.
Oh geez, you just gave me a horrible vision of the new ‘lipstick’ line for next year.
December 19th, 2009 at 4:17 pmI’m always suspicious when a politician says “the American people this, the American people that” — it usually is a bunch of hokum. Speak for yourself, Pal.
December 19th, 2009 at 5:12 pmYou have to give Vote Down Baby some points for pointless perserverance…
December 19th, 2009 at 5:33 pmYou aren’t the Wendy Williams are you? You know the one with the electrical tape….
December 19th, 2009 at 5:34 pmNo is a good word to discribe the health care bill.
December 19th, 2009 at 8:07 pmConservaTROLL
Kill yourself is good advice for YOU, ya pathetic pile of dogshit
December 19th, 2009 at 9:05 pmconservative guy says:
No is a good word to discribe the health care bill.
You got your talking point from Coburn…so I guess…
http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/NatSci102/images/extbrainfull.htm
December 19th, 2009 at 10:33 pmHow does Coburn know what “the people” want? Is he basing that off of polls, calls to his office, a magic 8 ball? Voters are fickle. And obstructing isn’t a solution, it’s a panic response.
December 20th, 2009 at 12:07 amActually Senator Coburn, I am a Republican and I definitely do not want anyone to kill the health care bill. You see I am an RN, retired now, and I have seen the saddest situations where an person had no insurance and their disease was so advanced they finally were brought to our hospital and we had to treat them. However, the disease was so advanced it cost 4 or 5 times as much for their care. If this does not break your heart, then you are certainly not compassionate at all. I would prefer the public option to force the cost of health insurance down, but absent that, I still want the Health Care bill to pass because we are our “brother’s keepers.” This is not my rule but it is found in the Bible. Legislators who avoid voting for this bill will prove to me that Senators and Representatives do not understand that command at all. So your statement is obviously incorrect. Many of us Republicans entirely disagree with you and see your Republican behavior as totally obstructionist..
December 20th, 2009 at 5:31 pmCoburn, you believe in devin intervention, right? Following your logic, God wants the Dems. to be in power in the U.S. and the Republicans to be hypocrits and obstructionists.
I expect you to accept (as God’s will) the deminished value of the GOP as a result of your “leadership”.
December 22nd, 2009 at 8:48 am