ThinkFast: December 21, 2009
ThinkFast: December 21, 2009
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On a 60-40 party-line procedural vote early Monday morning, Senate Democrats held ranks to pass a procedural motion that moves health reform legislation closer to an expected final passage on Christmas Eve at 7 pm. The vote took place shortly after 1 am ET, following 12 hours of “acrimonious debate.”
In a handful of illegible tweets, Sarah Palin blasted the Copenhagen climate accord as an example of the “arrogance of man.” She wrote, “Copenhgen=arrogance of man2think we can change nature’s ways.”
“The Fed’s failure to foresee the crisis or to require adequate safeguards happened in part because it did not understand the risks that banks were taking,” a Washington Post analysis found. The “central bank’s performance has sparked a great debate about” its future as regulator since it “failed to protect borrowers” and banks “from the consequences of subprime lending.”
Since 2000, “stocks traded on the New York Stock Exchange have lost an average of 0.5% a year,” making the last ten tears the worst decade ever for the stock market. “Investors would have been better off investing in pretty much anything else, from bonds to gold or even just stuffing money under a mattress,” wrote the Wall Street Journal.
“The hiring of temporary workers has surged,” a sign that companies may be willing to “take the next step, bringing on permanent workers, if they can just convince themselves that the upturn in the economy will be sustained. … Last month 52,000 temps were added, greater than the number of new workers in any other category.”
Taxpayers are footing the bill for “more than $40,000 per month on office space, staff, cell phones and a leased SUV for former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, even as he works as a lobbyist for private corporations and foreign governments.” The payments are “perfectly legal” as long as Hastert never uses these perks for his lobbying work, a separation that is “hard to maintain.”
Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Adm. Mike Mullen said that military force would have only limited effect in preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons. While Mullen told his staff that force remains an option, he also said he believes that regional security could be best achieved through political means.
“Tens of thousands” of mourners attended the funeral of Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, a leading Iranian dissident and reformist cleric, today. The funeral comes as there have been numerous reports of new crackdowns on dissident journalists and reform movement leaders.
And finally: A snowball fight in the nation’s capital is all fun and games…until a police officer pulls a gun.
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Seems to me that Coburn is trivializing his religion sand desecrating the Christmas holiday with these shameful remarks.
http://www.political-buzz.com/
December 21st, 2009 at 10:20 amYou’re back! :)
December 21st, 2009 at 10:21 amThe VDT is already here.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:25 amTaxpayers are footing the bill for “more than $40,000 per month on office space, staff, cell phones and a leased SUV for former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, even as he works as a lobbyist for private corporations and foreign governments.”
Hasturd should be paying the taxpayers back after his dismal performance as Speaker & the way he ‘handled Foley’.
Next, we’ll hear Rumsfeld still has offices in the Pentagon.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:26 amWB TP >>>
Maria they are quick them VDT/cult members
December 21st, 2009 at 10:26 amIn a handful of illegible tweets, Sarah Palin blasted the Copenhagen climate accord as an example of the “arrogance of man.” She wrote, “Copenhgen=arrogance of man2think we can change nature’s ways.”
What an idiot. Technology, in every form is nothing more than man changing nature’s ways. From sealskin kayaks, to igloos, to oil pipelines over the permafrost, to her blackberry that she uses to tweet nonsense, man changes nature’s ways.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:27 am“In a handful of illegible tweets, Sarah Palin blasted the Copenhagen climate accord as an example of the “arrogance of man.” She wrote, “Copenhgen=arrogance of man2think we can change nature’s ways.”
Oh yeah, SURE the air-headed ditz is eligible to be president.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:28 amA snowball fight in the nation’s capital is all fun and games…until a police officer pulls a gun.
Keep an eye on Coburn; he may do the same in the Senate Christmas Eve!
December 21st, 2009 at 10:29 amThis is a trend I’ve been expecting, as the baby boom generation retires, and starts to cash out to pay the expenses of aging, the market had to drop. That’s why they were so desperate to get their hands on Social Security, by privatization. That money would have propped the market up for a few more years, maybe delaying the crash past the election. We were smart not to listen to Bush. I just wish I’d had liquid assets the day I noticed gold at $398.40 an ounce.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:29 amIt’s really pathetic – the repugs, the trolls who visit here, have no arguments, no debate, no facts on their side, so they just vote down comments and toss in ad hominem attacks, so bereft are they of ideas and solutions. Like their party in the congress, they shame the US government, they defile the religion they claim to believe, and they cause unnecessary and deliberate hurt to the already suffereing American public.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:29 am“Copenhgen=arrogance of man2think we can change nature’s ways.”
Yes, for-shame man’s damned “arrogance”.
Without such, there’d be no U.S.A., no US flag on the Moon, no New York City, etc.
Hey, while we’re at it, without such arrogance, we’d be without indoor plumbing, heating and A/C, which would render Alaska wholly inhabitable.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:30 amI just wish I’d had liquid assets the day I noticed gold at $398.40 an ounce.
But in today’s climate, I was finally able to purge all that hideous yellow gold garbage jewelry that’s been sitting in a dark drawer for decades and turn in into hard cash.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:32 amWhat did the VDTs do while this site was down?
a. Get more Cheetos
b. Pee on the carpet
c. Vote themselves down
d. Wander around aimlessly in the basement
e. Call Tom Coburn for further talking points
December 21st, 2009 at 10:33 amZimzone says:
What did the VDTs do while this site was down?
a. Get more Cheetos
b. Pee on the carpet
c. Vote themselves down
d. Wander around aimlessly in the basement
e. Call Tom Coburn for further talking points
f all the above
December 21st, 2009 at 10:35 amWell champagne corks will be popping at all the for profit health insurance companies today. The senate dems sold us out to the altar of big money, and the rest of us got the middle finger.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:35 amI can’t imagine the outrage and indignation that would have been displayed by the repugs if a Dem had uttered such a “prayer” for a repugniscum.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:40 amThey would tolerate not one cross word from Dems, but they themselves are like bullies on the schoolyard.
Sen. Durbin asked Coburn to “explain” himself, but I have not heard that he did.
What could he possibly say? He prays that Byrd, or actually any Senator, would suffer an act of god, an answer to their prayers, and not be able to vote?
If I believed in God, I would pray them all to go straight to hell and burn for eternity. They are so deliberately guilty of so many sins: Greed, pride, wrath, gluttony to name a few, offenses against the golden rule (And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.) Luke 6, v 31.
For the record, folks, if Palin wants to Tweet and FaceBook all of her criticisms of the Obama administration without actually running for office, her words should be treated just like any blogger’s.
GRAIN OF SALT.
Unless you’re running for anything, Sarah sweetie, I suggest sitting on your opinion.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:40 amI know it has already been said – twice, but dayum!!!
We’re arrogant to think we can change nature’s ways?
What the hell does herself think we’re doing every time we flip on a light, open the fridge, do brain surgery, get in a car or hell – even type inanities into Twitter…??
Good God; that woman is the epitome of Teh Stoopit.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:41 amDNFP
December 21st, 2009 at 10:42 amThere are a lot of those sell your gold and silver parties going on in my neighborhood.
DNFP at 10:32 am
But in today’s climate, I was finally able to purge all that hideous yellow gold garbage jewelry that’s been sitting in a dark drawer for decades and turn in into hard cash.
You shouldn’t be watching Glenn Beck…
December 21st, 2009 at 10:43 amTP’s back online. That was a scary couple of hours.
Despite all the posturing by the Blue Dogs, despite the ceaseless obstructionism and fearmongering by the GOP…the Dems managed to wheel out Robert Byrd and get 60 votes to end debate. I don’t expect more than a few progressive Dems in the House to reject the bill and they might make up a few votes with the considerably more watered down version than the one they voted on a month ago. This will pass. The beauty of this bill, for how flawed and hackneyed as it is, is that it allows room for improvement. The strucutre is set up so that a robust public option can be added to the exchange in future legislation. While a political impossibility now, in a couple years time, it may very well happen. Just as long as they don’t name this bill after Kennedy…
Sarah “Random Word Generator” Palin strikes again. This woman will win the Republican primary in 2012 without uttering a single gramatically (or logically) coherent sentence. Also, by that logic, we should’ve never bothered building levees in New Orleans, reinforcing skyscrapers in San Fransisco, or putting sandbags up in South Florida. Wouldn’t want to tamper with the effects of nature, now do we?
There you have it: the Fed isn’t evil or malicious, just incredibly incompetant. Audit the institution and devolve some of its regulatory powers into a new federal agency (or three). And get a damn Keynesian running the place!
Man. That this decade was worse for the stock markets than the 1930s is very telling. We suffered through the end of the tech bubble, the aftermath of 9/11, rising oil prices, the fall of the housing bubble, and the worst sustained stock market crash since 1929. Thank you, Mr. Bush.
Great. NOW temp hiring has surged. Where was this surge a year ago when I was looking for a job? Those figures are a tossup. While it’s promising that people are finding work, this usually means companies can’t afford to hire people full-time and may not have the capital to stay afloat in the long run. Still, better than nothing.
The death of Grand Ayatollah Montazeri means all hell might break loose in Iran. Despite Khameni’s assurances to the contrary, they probably ARE working on a nuclear weapons program. The world has much less to fear from an Iranian nuclear weapon…that from Israel’s response. The death of the de facto spiritual leader of the reform movement, once the heir apparent to Khomeni, will mean the largest protests since June. The regime will crack down with full force. So long as Israel does not use the opportunity to launch a strike (strengthening the regime’s popularity), the clerics will be greatly weakened. If countries like Turkey and Indonesia (crucial: both overwhelmingly Islamic countries with functional democratic institutions and varying degrees of secularism) heavily back the reformists, Khameni and the others will have no choice but to capitulate. Iran is better suited for democracy than virtually any other country in the region, having had a constitunional monarchy for decades prior to the Revolution. By emulating the current political situation in Turkey (secular, democratic society influenced by Islamic ideals), they can become a major, stable power in the region.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:44 amFrom above:
I saw a video of the incident at Crooks and Liars. The officer who pulled his gun should be removed from the force. He is a menace.
The uniform officers who failed to arrest the officer should be disciplined. They allowed the officer to block traffic with his vehicle during a snow emergency. They allowed him to get away with making threats of violence by brandishing a weapon when there were no threats of harm present to him or his property. The officer was also allowed to run around in the crowd threatening others; nearly inciting a riot.
The uniform officers failed to control the the officer causing this situation and thereby reduce the possibility of violence.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:45 amWouldn’t you just love to see Palin on Maddow’s show?
Rachel would shred her like fresh cheese.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:46 am“Leftside Annie says:
I know it has already been said – twice, but dayum!!!
We’re arrogant to think we can change nature’s ways?
What the hell does herself think we’re doing every time we flip on a light, open the fridge, do brain surgery, get in a car or hell – even type inanities into Twitter…??
Good God; that woman is the epitome of Teh Stoopit.”
She defines stupid. Cataclysmically stupid. She is Uber-Stupid.
It’s clear that mere words cannot define the depth and breadth of her stupidity.
Hard to believe that it’s possible, but her followers/worshipers are MORE stupid.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:48 am“Earth saw clmate chnge4 ions”
I swear to God, if she ever campaigns for anything again, a reporter needs to print these out and read them aloud to her, pronouncing her un-words exactly the way they’re written.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:49 amI see the Senate vote came to 60-40 despite Coburn’s prayers. Does this mean God said “no” to him? Looks like it.
Coburn should remember that when praying, it’s better to remember the “not my will, but Thine, Lord” adage. I have always believed that when it comes to matters of government, God tends to give man a a lot of freedom (even freedom to screw up), but when He is invited to intervene through prayer, He will act as He thinks best.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:50 amPalin blacking out McSame’s name on the visor in Hawaii was hilarious.
Now, if we could just black her out of the media for a few years…
December 21st, 2009 at 10:51 amI hate to say it, but the way the Senate dems and Obama sold out to the insurance companies last night, the bimbo of the north just might have a chance. Her stupid base will come out in force and vote, but I’m not so sure that dems will get their base out, after they just f**ked all of us last night.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:53 amThis morning, I was royally annoyed when a car entered a traffic circle right in front of me, forcing me to slam on my brakes to avoid a collision (I had the right of way). It was especially irksome because the driver looked RIGHT AT ME before she decided her car could occupy the same space mine was.
However, I noticed after she did this, that her rear bumper sported a “Palin in 2012″ bumper sticker. I decided to cut her some slack — she was obviously mentally handicapped.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:54 amInteresting to read about detective’s road rage in DC where a group of people are trying to turn the snow storm into a harmless fun day. It’s ironic that a person driving a Hummer would be upset about being hit with snow balls. After all those things are meant to drive through almost any conditions. I guess it’s an example of one type of mentality that drives those obnoxious things: an equally obnoxious bully.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:54 amSince 2000, “stocks traded on the New York Stock Exchange have lost an average of 0.5% a year,” making the last ten tears the worst decade ever for the stock market
But what the heck — let’s privatize Social Security anyway!
December 21st, 2009 at 10:54 amNow that the Senate will almost certainly approve the watered down health care bill they have on the table, how will this be reconciled with the House bill?
Any guesses as to what the end product will have in it? Or not?
December 21st, 2009 at 10:56 amHas anyone ever told Sarah Palin about the hole in the ozone layer?
December 21st, 2009 at 10:56 ammissmolly,
I would say, the senate bill will be passed pretty much unchanged. House dems will cave just like senate dems did.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:00 ammissmolly at 10:56 am
Now that the Senate will almost certainly approve the watered down health care bill they have on the table, how will this be reconciled with the House bill?
Any guesses as to what the end product will have in it? Or not?
If it still takes 60 votes to pass the Senate, after the conference committee, it will have to look like the Senate bill. Every change that can be made to appease one Senator loses another.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:02 amSince 2000, “stocks traded on the New York Stock Exchange have lost an average of 0.5% a year,” making the last ten years the worst decade ever for the stock market.
Patiently awaiting the inevitable “It’s William Jefferson Clinton’s fault!” rhetoric.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:04 am“happened in part because it did not understand the risks that banks were taking”
Doesn’t that mean that deregulation is a bad idea ?
December 21st, 2009 at 11:05 amJane Hamsher from Firedoglake has a petition to kill the Senate bill. The petition will be sent to all house democrats. Maybe we can still stop this sellout to the insurance companies.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:06 amObama started this effort. Who else would have done it if he hadn’t?
something like 300 lawmakers in both houses of congress supported single payer, public option and medicare expansion.
3 or 4 dems, one indy and all republicans are the reason this worked out the way it did.
Please stop blaming Obama and dems across the board.
Have you not been paying any attention at all?
December 21st, 2009 at 11:08 amThe litmus test for the health reform bill will be how the big health insurers perform on Wall St. today.
If big insurer’s stock is up, our chance of reform is going down.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:09 amWeiner, Sanders, Vickie Kennedy, etc. support this. Who is Jane?
I know who I trust.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:09 amIt’s a concern but they thought they were going to be cut completely out of it for months, could that have anything to do with it?
December 21st, 2009 at 11:10 am1. 00mpp00,
That is why I will loudly proclaim:
The healthcare vote is lined up for Christmas Eve. Make videos of Ebeneezer and Tiny Tim to show the lines the repubs have drawn.
Make videos of Mary and Joseph searching for a place to deliver the Christ Child – They didn’t have health insurance and gave birth in a stable.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:12 amIf there is anybody who loves Sarah Palin they should tell the twit to stop tweeting. And that an ion is a molecule and an eon is a vast length of time. What an idiot.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:14 amSquash says:
Interesting to read about detective’s road rage in DC where a group of people are trying to turn the snow storm into a harmless fun day. It’s ironic that a person driving a Hummer would be upset about being hit with snow balls. After all those things are meant to drive through almost any conditions.
Heh – my response to Hummer drivers is this:
“Nice Hummer. It’s a real shame about your peenis.”
:o)
December 21st, 2009 at 11:14 amThis bill is, essentially, a bailout for the insurance companies…but one that DOES provide a few good services (although at an obscene price). If the bill really does prevent insurance companies from denying coverage or using recission, if the OPM really does keep an eye on the exchanges, if the exchanges really do offer a great deal of choice…then we have a framework for real reform. It might take a few years after the exchanges are in place to gauge its effectiveness, but the possibility remains open for a real Medicare Part E to enter in after a few years time.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:16 amFred, I do blame Democrats in the senate for not having the back bone to do the right thing. Every poll taken since this started has said the people want a real public option, and they caved in to four senators, and sold us out just so they could say they passed a bill. My god, they even had to buy Nelson off to get him to vote yes, and a long the way they sold women right down the drain.
By the way, Jane Hamsher is the founder of Firedoglake.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:16 amIn a handful of illegible tweets, Sarah Palin blasted the Copenhagen climate accord as an example of the “arrogance of man.” She wrote, “Copenhgen=arrogance of man2think we can change nature’s ways.”
Good grief, lady! To one degree or another — a degree which has only been increasing along with our advances in technology — human beings have had the power to “change nature’s ways” since we first began learning how to make and use tools!
“The hiring of temporary workers has surged,” a sign that companies may be willing to “take the next step, bringing on permanent workers, if they can just convince themselves that the upturn in the economy will be sustained…Last month 52,000 temps were added, greater than the number of new workers in any other category.”
Take it from someone who’s unfortunately been compelled to rely largely on temp work for the past couple of years…if the increase in hiring is being measured from the agency end rather than the client end, this doesn’t necessarily mean that the amount of work available is increasing. What this may be is a side effect of the fact that so many people are out of work — people who otherwise wouldn’t feel the need to sign up with agencies may be doing so in the hope of getting whatever work they can find, even if only for a few days. For the past several months, at least where I live, the temp industry has been almost completely flat. Granted, a couple of agencies have initiated contact with me during the last few weeks and asked me to register with them, which would appear on the surface to be a good sign — but personally, I’m inclined to suspect that this may be an anticipatory or precautionary measure rather than a reactive one since the amount of work available doesn’t seem to have stepped up appreciably (at least not where I live).
Taxpayers are footing the bill for “more than $40,000 per month on office space, staff, cell phones and a leased SUV for former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, even as he works as a lobbyist for private corporations and foreign governments.” The payments are “perfectly legal” as long as Hastert never uses these perks for his lobbying work, a separation that is “hard to maintain.”
So let me see if I understand this right…
The taxpayers have without their consent or knowledge been supplying Hastert with a monthly amount nearly equaling the nation’s yearly median income so that it’s a little easier for him to exploit his contacts as a former ex-Congresscritter and put the American people even further under the control of the corporations? Particularly given some of the ways in which Hastert chose to conduct himself while in Congress, does anyone here seriously believe that he’ll be scrupulous enough to refrain from utilizing these perks for his lobbying work??
Uh, huh….riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Am I the only person here who sees that as being about on a par with forcing a chicken to pay the fox for the privilege of being eaten????
Give. Me. A. Break. We desperately need to find someone who will put a stop to this sort of egregious activity…
December 21st, 2009 at 11:18 amralph the wonder llama says:
Has anyone ever told Sarah Palin about the hole in the ozone layer?
I have a Palin tweet for that.
“That’s just God’s way of playin’ peek-a-boo with us real Americans in Alaska. I see you too, God!”
December 21st, 2009 at 11:22 amOnly an idiot like Pay-lin would think that man isn’t changing nature.
Idjit.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:22 amI don’t know her. I know Weiner, I know Sanders, I know Vickie Kennedy, etc. They all say this bill is worth doing.
Dealing with reality is not always selling out. We knew the vote was going to be close all along.
None of us think this is all that we wanted but how can progressives be upset when more Americans are getting health care and the door will still be open for improvement?
Don’t let your anger destroy your objectivity. Howard Dean has even backed off from his initial knee jerk reaction.
If its as bad as you say, why are the most progressive people in our government still supporting it?
December 21st, 2009 at 11:22 amEnnuiDivine, A few years? Except for the cost portion, none of this goes into effect to 2013. The way the bill reads, if you have a pre-existing condition the insurance companies can charge you threw the nose for the coverage. Hows that help anybody? I’m telling you, if this bill stands like it is, nobody except the insurance companies are going to be better off.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:24 amI am unhappy with the content of the health care bill but I am thrilled that it proves how impotent the teabagging right truly has become.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:30 amFred, I’m one lefty who’s not buying it. I didn’t work my ass off banging on doors in the rain and snow to get Democrats elected on a promise of change, to be told that now I should be happy with what I got. This what dems have done for years, and it is why they were in the minority for years. I’m telling you, if this bill stands, Democrats will get their brains beaten out in 2010, and they will have know one to blame but there weak kneed self’s.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:33 amI don’t know where you are getting your information but I don’t believe any of that is true.
I think the government will be regulating prices and premiums. I think the profit and overhead margin has been restricted to 15% for group and 20% for non group policies which will make them work harder for their money.
They just gain more people. 80-85% of the premiums must be spent on care.
If you are going to bring up the 50 dollar aspirin, I think this will help that as that has only been justified because so many people gettin treated had no insurance and they were being allowed to recoup thier losses on the backs of those who are insured…….that should be vastly improved by this bill…
December 21st, 2009 at 11:33 amBrilliant, Purple State!
December 21st, 2009 at 11:34 amAgain, I don’t know where you are getting your information but this is definately incorrect.
I know for a fact that pre-existing conditions for children are eliminated immediately, not in years to come.
Many other things kick in immediately too.
I say lets get to the bottom of all of this so we can have an actual informed discussion. There is so much anger and fear surrounding this and people are saying things that are not accurate and it is being repeated……
December 21st, 2009 at 11:36 amPretty dire prediction, I don’t see how but whatever.
You are entitled to your opinion, you stated it. I just did the same thing.
We should be able to disagree don’t you think?
December 21st, 2009 at 11:39 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
To Leftside Annie @ 45:
Your comment had me laughing so hard I clicked vote down when I obviously meant to vote up.
MEA CULPA :)~
December 21st, 2009 at 11:43 amDecember 21st, 2009 at 11:45 am
Fred, I agree, and you are right about pre-conditions. I hadn’t fully read the Reid ammendment to the bill. Thanks for that.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:47 amStormy that’s how they treat right wing extremist terrorists.
It’s because you are so dangerous to society.
You’re on our list here at home. Think before you act. Bush can’t save you now.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:47 amTo angels81:
I agree with most of the skepticism you’ve stated. I am unconvinced this bill, as it is, has any long-term fixes for the fiasco known as American healthcare. The promise of future add-ons provides me with ZERO
December 21st, 2009 at 11:52 amBoy stormy your guy was pretty stupid. The last thing you do when a cop tells you to leave, is stand there and then put your hands in your pockets. Any cop in this country would have thrown you to the ground and cuffed you. Who knows what he had in his pockets. You guys are really stupid.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:53 amsocial security had a 28% approval when passed and it has been improved twice.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:54 amoopsie…It appears I hit the send button a bit early….
December 21st, 2009 at 11:55 amto continue:
The promise of future add-ons provides me with ZERO consolation. As a mid-50’s person, I don’t see how this bill addresses the problem of people between 50 and 65 who have no insurance or lose their insurance. My major complain is: WHERE IS THE COST CONTAINMENT? Without it, we’ll have the same old same old.
Wasn’t the same guy who wrote that article (at the top of the page it says “From The Viscount Monckton of Brenchley in Copenhagen”) Christopher Monckton? The same guy who had to invoke Godwin’s law by calling the activists at Copenhagen “Hitler youth.”
December 21st, 2009 at 11:58 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
So why was Barney Frank trying to kill HR 1207? Who is he working for?
December 21st, 2009 at 11:58 amFred ♪♫♪ says:
social security had a 28% approval when passed and it has been improved twice.
Twice in what, 60 or 70 years? Sorry Fred, that doesn’t help me feel a whole lot better about this bill. I’m 56 and I’ll be dead before healthcare improves further at its current glacial pace.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:59 amI’m 58 with copd and now no insurance. So? Should we kill any chance to get this going out of spite?
You mentioned cost controls, I think there are some in this. As I said earlier the insurance companies will be restricted to 15 or 20 percent for both overhead and profit. That is cost control where the insurance company is concerned.
I also addressed the 50 dollar aspirin.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:05 pmTaxpayers are footing the bill for “more than $40,000 per month on office space, staff, cell phones and a leased SUV for former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, even as he works as a lobbyist for private corporations and foreign governments.” The payments are “perfectly legal” as long as Hastert never uses these perks for his lobbying work, a separation that is “hard to maintain.”
Now that I think about it (as an addendum to my earlier post)…would someone please explain to me exactly what entitles Hastert to receive at the expense of the taxpayers a yearly sum of approximately $480,000.00 which is not only approximately ten times the nation’s yearly median income (currently around $50,000.00 give or take), but is also more than twice the salary that he received while he was serving in Congress (which is more than twice the salary that the Speaker of the House presently receives)?
December 21st, 2009 at 12:07 pmYou should be honest and think of it as a nazi containment program.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:08 pmI’m less concerned with the 50 dollar aspirin than I am with the possibility of paying $1000/month or more for insurance I’m FORCED to buy.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:08 pmForced participation with no public option is a non-starter for my support.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:09 pm69 – you’re damn right we’re baffled, because such ridiculous comparisons make no sense whatever, ya moron.
Duh.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:10 pmDoesn’t the 50 dollar aspirin play into the cost. If we insure more people then the cargivers won’t have to charge those who pay more to make up for those who can’t……
December 21st, 2009 at 12:11 pmIf the insurance companies find they can no longer blame the 50 dollar aspirin for their exhorbitant fees, they’ll find something else to blame it on.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:14 pmalso, susidies will be available for those making up to 400% above poverty level.
Poverty level for a family of 3 is around 18,000 dollars now. So if you make under 72,000 in those circumstances you will get subsidized….
I think the mandates are being used to scare people.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:17 pmOnce again, the insurance companies will only be able to charge 15-20 percent above what they spend on care and that includes both overhead and profit…….
I’m getting really tired of providing facts to progressives who are mad about this and don’t even seem to know what’s in it…..
December 21st, 2009 at 12:20 pmFred,
December 21st, 2009 at 12:29 pmThank you for helping clear up most of the questions that I had…and I didn’t even have to ask :)
Fred ♪♫♪ says:
I’m getting really tired of providing facts to progressives who are mad about this and don’t even seem to know what’s in it…..
Hey Fred: Just because you are a lemming about anything Obama, don’t expect us all to be that way too. One thing we can agree on is I’m sick of you pontificating about what’s in this bill because anyone who is against it has to be uninformed. You appear to be naive enough to believe that this is magically gonna make ins co’s toe the line. I don’t believe the 15-20% profit limit will be followed. Does this bill provide an agency to police these limits? Or should we trust they will observe this via the honor system? I’ll say it again: mandated participation without a public option is a non-starter for my support. Are those two facts right Fred the healthcare bill guru?
December 21st, 2009 at 12:31 pmExit Stage Left
I will continue to speak my mind and I suggest you do the same.
Try to be civil about it if you can.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:37 pmFred, you raise some valid points, but I am worried about the loopholes that the health insurance companies will find…15-20% profit limit sounds good in theory, but how can we be sure that they’ll not jump through loopholes with the willing blindness of those who are supposed to regulate them?
December 21st, 2009 at 12:58 pmSarah Palin should begin to understand that we are not arrogant enough to try to change nature, just enough to change the practices and policies of the energy company CEO’s that she devotes so much of her career to sucking up to.
December 21st, 2009 at 1:02 pmI don’t know. I mean, what are laws for? Do you just not trust any laws or what?
I don’t get the question. Of course they will try to find loopholes but republicans are not running things now so if they find one we will close it.
As ElBruce said the other day, laws and regulations are not a matter of faith.
The only time government fails totally to work is when republicans are running it.
Look, what if you got everything you wanted, who would you trust to implement that? It’s the same people you trust to regulate under current proposed legislation isn’t it?
December 21st, 2009 at 1:10 pmI guess my question could have been better served if I worded it correctly…How can we be sure there will be a willingness to enforce these laws that are supposed to regulate?
December 21st, 2009 at 1:12 pmIn a handful of illegible tweets, Sarah Palin blasted the Copenhagen climate accord as an example of the “arrogance of man.” She wrote, “Copenhgen=arrogance of man2think we can change nature’s ways.”
“Drill, baby, drill” is the arrogance of man.
December 21st, 2009 at 1:26 pmFred ♪♫♪ says:
I will continue to speak my mind and I suggest you do the same.
Try to be civil about it if you can.
Is it civil to accuse those that disagree with you with being uninformed?
By the way….you are confusing cost containment with potential affordability via unspecified subsidies.
December 21st, 2009 at 1:30 pmWhat’s worse, crazy police stories or Hastert still getting public money? I’d have to go with Hastert.
Once, while living in Boston some 25 – 30 years ago we experienced a storm of the century and absolutely everything was shut down. Not knowing any better I took a cab to work – I think it was the only car on the street so when we got down to the gov.t center area which was perfectly deserted he just started doing donuts and such sliding around in the snow. It was a blast.
Of course my workplace was closed and I had to go home.
December 21st, 2009 at 1:31 pmThis health insurance bill was crafted for the health insurance companies by their minions minions in the Senate and House. These same people will be in charge of enacting laws to regulate and enforce it’s contents. Excuse me if I’m less than confident of the zeal of with which these corporats will try to track down the lawbreakers.
December 21st, 2009 at 1:36 pmminus one “minion” and one “of” in my prior post.
December 21st, 2009 at 1:37 pmGood Morning youngsters…Wishing you all a very happy Yule ( Winter Solstice) today…Some great posts, thank you all for the great reads…
Am I the only one who thought the health care, Kabuki dance was a reverse syc. played out by the rep.s and the dem’s fell for it.?..Just a little something to think on…Kill everything good in war and polaticks..First the reps. scream and yell, vote down, block everything and demand their will be done…Then when all their junk is accepted scream some more to make everyone think it’s all still bad…Naturely the dem’s figure it must be good if the reps are against it so they come out in force to pass the pissy screwed up bill…Game set match..The insurance and pharmacies along with the reps. win..We loose…Just a few thoughts..Yes I have read everything available on this peiece of crap, including the mandatory part..None here will live long enough to see it improved based on the length of time it takes the sewer rats in DC to do their job’s..It is after all, all about them getting richer while the rest of our country crumbles…More of my thought’s.
The small spike in employment may be due to holiday hiring, nothing more…
On a lighter note…My stockings are hung over the heater with care, soaking wet…My old boots sprang leaks while walking the Bear…Peace, Blessings & Joy.
About Hastert..Shameful, legal or not..I thought President Obama put some lady in charge of just that sort of thing…Oh well what do I know..Everyone back in the sewer is immune to prosacution and even over sight..
December 21st, 2009 at 1:54 pmFred,
I see your still at it. Excellent. You made a point yesterday (perhaps inadvertently) and dismissed it up a little ways. That laws and regulations aren’t about faith.
See, when I was following your discussion yesterday it dawned on me, it is a matter of faith. Seriously, don’t dismiss it. That’s when it totally made sense. Those who support the bill have faith the government will do the right thing, those who don’t (or are skeptical) lack that faith.
I’m an example.
One reason why is I worked for a business that was red tagged by OSHA following Federal guidlines on air quality and workplace safety. We had to turn in all of the clothes we ever wore there and anything that was ever brought in(such as breif cases, wallets etc..) for destruction. When they came in they said drop our things, don’t remove anything and please walk out the door.
We were never allowed back in and all of our work etc… was lost forever.
Fast forward a number of years. The very same OSHA employees and management that shut us down sat in Federal court and said this never happened. Of course the judge new it had, I’m sure he saw the documentation behind closed doors, but he wouldn’t let the testimony in.
The Federal Judge, Our Own Personal Regulator was bought and paid for by the Insurance companies fighting our claim. This is one example of literally dozens (if not hundreds) of incidents at trial where our testimony, witness testimony or doctors testimony was not allowed.
I wonder why we lost? So you can see I come by that lack of faith honestly. Others ridicule it, but I think your point is key.
In order for me to support this bill I must have faith. I’m working on it.
December 21st, 2009 at 3:22 pmIn a handful of illegible tweets, Sarah Palin blasted the Copenhagen climate accord as an example of the “arrogance of man.” She wrote, “Copenhgen=arrogance of man2think we can change nature’s ways.”
n00b, n0t k3wl.
December 21st, 2009 at 7:58 pm73. Bluestocking,
I assume that is a rhetorical question ? After all, he’s a republican. IOKIYAR
December 21st, 2009 at 8:03 pmGuess I’ve made a few non-fans on this site. oh well.
December 21st, 2009 at 8:08 pmSince 2000, “stocks traded on the New York Stock Exchange have lost an average of 0.5% a year,” making the last ten tears the worst decade ever for the stock market. “Investors would have been better off investing in pretty much anything else, from bonds to gold or even just stuffing money under a mattress,” wrote the Wall Street Journal.
Buying and holding the S&P 500 index went nowhere. But, traders made money. So this story is rather misleading.
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:44 pm“The hiring of temporary workers has surged,” a sign that companies may be willing to “take the next step, bringing on permanent workers, if they can just convince themselves that the upturn in the economy will be sustained. … Last month 52,000 temps were added, greater than the number of new workers in any other category
Just wait until the govt. hires 1,000,000 temps for the 2010 census. We will be hearing how unemployment is going down. … LMAO.
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:49 pmThank you for your sharing.!
December 27th, 2009 at 12:34 am