ThinkFast: January 25, 2010
ThinkFast: January 25, 2010
“Make them filibuster,” Gov. Ed Rendell (D-PA) advised Democrats in how to deal with Republicans. “My message to those Democrats is don’t be afraid. … Make the American people look at a modern day spectacle of what a filibuster would entail. I think it’s time to call their bluff.”
South Carolina Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer said that he “could have chosen his words more carefully when he compared people who take public assistance to stray animals,” but that “he doesn’t need to apologize.” “This is out of love and compassion,” Bauer said. “If I have to take a hit, then fine. … I will take short-term pain for long-term gain.”
A new Gallup survey reports that Obama has the most polarized poll ratings of any first-year president. A 65 percentage-point gap exists between Democrats’ (88%) and Republicans’ (23%) approval for Barack Obama, exceeding the prior high of 52 points for President Clinton.
Richard Socarides, a former adviser to President Clinton on gay issues, criticizes the Obama “administration’s willingness to treat gay Americans as second-class citizens.” Obama’s delay in repealing Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell “is especially troubling,” he writes, because it shows the president’s “oversensitivity to a dwindling minority of bigots on this issue.”
In his State of the Union address this week, President Obama will propose “a package of modest initiatives intended to help middle-class families, including tax credits for child care, caps on some student loan payments,” and other retirement incentives. The proposal also includes “money for programs to help families care for elderly relatives.”
“Nearly three out of four Americans think that at least half of the money spent in the federal stimulus plan has been wasted,” according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll. Sixty-three percent said “that projects in the plan were included for purely political reasons and will have no economic benefit” while just 36 percent say the projects will benefit the economy.
“Energy companies significantly increased their lobbying expenditures last year” as Congress deliberated over climate change legislation. One group, the Edison Electric Institute (EEI), which lobbies for electric utilities, spent nearly $10.5 million, an increase of nearly 40 percent from what the group spent in 2008.
Halliburton’s “quarterly profit fell by nearly half from last year on weaker drilling activity and lower prices for its oilfield services.” However the energy services giant said its North American natural gas markets may be on the rebound as revenue from those markets increased from the third quarter.
Iraq “has signed a final deal with U.S. and European oil giants Exxon Mobil Corp. and Royal Dutch Shell PLC to develop a major oil field in the south.” Under the deal, the consortium will develop the field for $1.9 for every barrel produced.
And finally: “Rush Limbaugh! The Musical.” Featuring popular Broadway musicals, the musical promises to take us back to Rush’s humble beginnings and follows his ascent to conservative dominance.
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South Carolina Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer said that he “could have chosen his words more carefully when he compared people who take public assistance to stray animals,” but that “he doesn’t need to apologize.” “This is out of love and compassion,”
Yeah, love and compassion were the first words that came to mind when I read what he had to say
January 25th, 2010 at 9:02 amIsn’t “Stray Animal” Bauer one of the legions of repiggies criticizing Harry Reid two weeks ago for far less offensive comments?
Repiggie means never having to say you’re sorry.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:06 amObama, listen to Mr. Socarides and repeal DADT. It would be an incredible step towards progress. Don’t let a minority group be ignored due to pressure from other minority groups (Republicans).
January 25th, 2010 at 9:07 amSouth Carolina Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer said that he “could have chosen his words more carefully when he compared people who take public assistance to stray animals,” but that “he doesn’t need to apologize.” “This is out of love and compassion,” Bauer said. “If I have to take a hit, then fine. … I will take short-term pain for long-term gain.”
Slave owner mentality.
Unbelievable.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:08 amGov. Ed Rendell (D-PA) understands what virtually every progressive in America has been saying all along. A threat of filibuster doesn’t mean squat. Make them actually filibuster every time, and make sure every American knows it.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:10 amFrom above:
The first act will close with a big number featuring Lush Limpballs in black face singing “Pickin’ Oxycotin”
January 25th, 2010 at 9:10 amI’m with Levi above. Let’s go already, you spineless Dems. I just try to tell myself these idiots aren’t in bed with each other as much as I think; but as time goes on I realize that the GOP has the collective heart of the Grinch and the Dems are still searching for seeds to grow a sack.
Awful. Just awful.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:12 amGovernor Rendell doesn’t seem to realize that the filibuster hasn’t looked like what he saw in “Mr Smith goes to Washington” in a very long time. The minority party is no longer required to DO anything.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:16 amRepugs are incapable of apology – when their coarse, selfish, greedy, insensitive, racist, oafish selves are exposed, the response is a half-assed comments such as Bauer’s.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:17 amCNN Poll: Majority of Americans say much of stimulus wasted
I’m not surprised, since the tax cuts to people with jobs, didn’t result in increased spending, because the recipients are too worried about their own jobs to purchase non-essentials. Anyone who got a job as the result of a stimulus project, doesn’t see it as permanent, so they aren’t spending either. The Bankster Bailout of 2008 didn’t require Wall Street to lend to Main street, so the unemployment went higher than predicted.
(House of Roberts is sponsored by the State of Alabama, and associate sponsor, American Reinvestment and Recovery Act. They’re paying my unemployment, and most of my Cobra insurance. Truth)
January 25th, 2010 at 9:19 amObama has polarized ratings — and we should think this is news?
January 25th, 2010 at 9:20 amWhen 40% of the congress has vowed to obstruct him; when political opponents charge him with communism, socialism or fascism; when every week someone accuses him of not being American-born, when his critics one day accuse him of doing too much and the next day of doing nothing; and when the media incessantly repeats the false claims with little or no challenge to their veracity — what should we expect?
Right on, Rendell! After the “state’s rights” debates in Congress in the early 1960s…few politicians have been willing to actually stand up and openly oppose legislation through the filibuster. It makes them look angry and it takes a hell of a toll on the body. No matter though, the Republicans that would filibuster all have top of the line healthcare…much like the kind they’d be filibustering to prevent non-government workers from ever getting. I could actually respect a politican who would actually launch into a filibuster (for a limited time). At least then, they’re physically standing up and vocally opposing legislation…rather than sitting down quietly and threatening to stand up and vocally oppose it. Rats, cowards, brigands, and cowards (said it twice, but it needs to be emphasized)
Sure. It IS out of love and compassion that Bauer wants the poor and indigent to be treating like stray animals. Just like a century ago, a South Carolina politician would’ve wanted black folk treated like stray animals. And a century before that, any non-white folk treated like pack animals. South Carolina sure has come a long way. And this schmuck will still wind up winning the Gov. race. His top Republican challenger is a guy who wants to ban immigration from Arab countries to prevent another instance of a Nigerian trying to blow up an airplane. Boy howdy.
For as troubling as the delay in repealing DADT is, it’s looking all but certain to be put into action this year with the defense appropriation bill. It’s certainly not the most expedient way to get justice, but it’s getting done. What troubles me more…is that virtually no action is being taken to repeal DOMA (quite possibly the most discriminatory federal law passed since the Civil Rights era). Perry v. Schwarzeneggar is all but certain to result in a win for Perry and an appeal to the Supreme Court. Based on the current composition, it’d probably break 5-4 in favour of Perry. If it takes that long and if it takes a Supreme Court ruling to invalidate a patently discriminatory law, we still have a serious issue in this country. What we need is a a full repeal of DOMA, complete with a civil marriage law at the federal level. It would provide equal rights to marriage in every state…and those states who hate the gays (i’m sorry, “want traditional marriage”) can threaten to secede. Win-win.
So. A year into office and the Federal government is finally providing a bailout for the middle class. Well, better late than never. It’s nice to see Obama take the populist route; let’s hope he doesn’t stray and doesn’t lose his cool.
75% of Americans believe the stimulus was largely wasted. Hey, what’s the percentage of Americans that get their news exclusively from the 3 cable networks or talk radio?
The Citizens United ruling guarantees we will never see effective clean energy/climate change legislation in this country. Any politician that crafts, or signs onto, such legislation instantly has at least $10m in corporate money looking to shut them down. Why eliminate our dependence on a fuel source that funds dictators on 3 continents while destroying the environment when we have corporations telling us it’s for the good of the country?
So. ExxonMobil is mining oil in Iraq. Only took about 7 years. And here I thought they’d have sent tankers with the Marines when we first stormed Basra. Oil wasn’t the sole reason we invaded (Bush wanted to avenge the attempted attack on his Daddy), but a story like that just makes that much harder to explain to the Arab world that we didn’t invade for the point of raping another Arab country’s resources. Follow the money over the next few years; see how much oil revenue goes towards rebuilding infrastructure and how much goes towards either lining the pockets of the government or their personal militias.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:20 amStimulus projects are all over my state, and in states to the east.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:22 amI believe that in many states (red states and red-neck states) politicians have forbidden signage that indicates projects are funded by Recovery Act funds.
(Perish the thought that the public might be informed that the stimulus plan is creating some jobs. That might mean Obama gets credit for something.)
bryan hussein says:
Governor Rendell doesn’t seem to realize that the filibuster hasn’t looked like what he saw in “Mr Smith goes to Washington” in a very long time. The minority party is no longer required to DO anything.
well they still have to have someone there inside the chambers weather or not they read the phone book. But as soon as no one is there the other side can close the filler buster and proceed.
So let them filler buster all they want.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:23 amI think it’s time to call their bluff.”
I SECOND, THIRD, FOURTH AND FIFTH that motion, Ed!
January 25th, 2010 at 9:24 amA new Gallup survey reports that Obama has the most polarized poll ratings of any first-year president. A 65 percentage-point gap exists between Democrats’ (88%) and Republicans’ (23%) approval for Barack Obama, exceeding the prior high of 52 points for President Clinton.
And another informal poll out shows that 86.7% of the Republicans who disapprove of Obama also get their pointy white hats dry cleaned.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:25 amTruth is hard to take isn’t it?
January 25th, 2010 at 9:25 amLet them filibuster. Again and again. I’m sure they will then blame the Dems for holding up the Peoples’ Business because the Dems don’t give in!
January 25th, 2010 at 9:26 amNearly three out of four Americans think that at least half of the money spent in the federal stimulus plan has been wasted,” according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll. Sixty-three percent said “that projects in the plan were included for purely political reasons and will have no economic benefit” while just 36 percent say the projects will benefit the economy.
On a more realistic note, I’d bet that 90% of those polled couln’t name three projects that were funded by stimulus money.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:27 amPlease ignore the severely ignorant troll, he has nothing of substance to offer and is only here to derail threads.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:27 amAnd finally: And finally: “Rush Limbaugh! The Musical” Featuring popular Broadway musicals, the show will take us back to Rush’s humble beginnings and follows his ascent to conservative dominance.
Is there an aria at the end where Rush explodes in a giant ball of lipoflame?
January 25th, 2010 at 9:30 am“Rush Limbaugh! The Musical”
LOL>>>> will it take you back to PA went jeff chaste was arrested for picking up male prostitute?
Or taking his and someone else Viagra to the DR for fun in the sun with underage boys?
Losing his hearing,, taking oxy–addict that is.
thinking nope.
LOL>> well one thing it just might sale more tickets then beckerheads sweater one.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:31 amIf it;’s all about forcing Republican to filibuster, why not introduce a single-payer bill that is real health care reform?
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog
January 25th, 2010 at 9:32 amI agree with Governor Rendell, but I’m afraid pigs will fly before Senate Dems ever get the balls to follow threw with this.
I think as long as Harry Reid is in charge, this will be another thing Senate Dems won’t do.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:33 amEd Rendell is the man!! Proud that he was the former mayor of my hometown!
January 25th, 2010 at 9:35 amI posted my thoughts on the subject here.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:38 amThousands2Millions says:
Pilotshark says
http://www.Hookedonphonics.com
For your own good.
Thanks i will take that into consideration,, however then all you cult trolls who have muti-able masters degrees would not be able to read and comprehend.
smiles
January 25th, 2010 at 9:47 amAnd finally: And finally: “Rush Limbaugh! The Musical.” Featuring popular Broadway musicals, the musical promises to take us back to Rush’s humble beginnings and follows his ascent to conservative dominance.
The draft board chorus line number alone will be worth the price of admission:
“They won’t take me, I’m a senator’s son;”
“If they try to take me, I am going to run;”
“I have got an anal cyst, big as the Sun…”
January 25th, 2010 at 9:49 amSevere..ly diseased in the head. Repug scum like the N. Carolina goofball proves you can’t reason with this scum of the earth.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:50 amI’m still waiting for the Cheney musical. And I still think that they should make him laugh like the Penguin from Batman.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:55 amPilotshark, nice shot @ 31. I bet that one let a mark.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:56 am#14 – Severe says:
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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“Point the finger much?”
January 25th, 2010 at 9:21 am
Not near as much as the right-whiners do! Seriously, go visit any right-whiner web ssite, and all you’ll hear is “It’s all THEIR fault, we’ve never done ANYTHING wrong!”
About the only difference is they ban anyone who doesn’t regurgitate the right-whiner tea-bagging talking points.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:00 amLet them try and filibuster. The endless inane psycho-screed of racist troglodytes alone is worth the effort.
BRING IT ON MORONS.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:00 amLet them fillibuster to prove they hate helping out the American people.
THEN ram the legislation through with reconciliation, exactly like the GOP did in 2000!
If the right-whiners complain, simply say “We gave you the opportunity for an up-or-down vote, but you refused to allow that. Now, we’re treating you the exact same way you treated us in 2000. Why do you complain now that you’re treated the same way?”
Prove to the American people that the “Party of No Ideas, No Progress, and NO to the American People” have NO CLUE!
January 25th, 2010 at 10:05 amHoodathunk(sponsored by Free Speech for Fish, LLC) says:
Pilotshark, nice shot @ 31. I bet that one let a mark.
Thanks
But sadly it will be back, right after it picks up a PhD at the blue light special, at its nearest K-mart.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:07 amYou can add me to the comments on Rendell. Let the public see the Republicans filibuster. The MSM will report it on a daily basis. I think the public will pressure the Republicans and Dems come out looking like they are trying to do something. The second filibuster by the Republicans will hammer home the fact that they are obstructionists. The timing is perfect because we are getting near the elections.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:10 amHalliburton’s quarterly profits fell by nearly half from last year.
Time to start another war, gotta keep that profit margin up you know.
Monday morning snark
January 25th, 2010 at 10:15 amGood morning, Severe.
Did you see the Sports section today?
The “Liberals” beat the “Conservatives” twice in the NFL yesterday.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:21 amsevere says:
You forgot my use of Flush Limpdick.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:24 amObstructionism is only a bad thing if it’s obstructing something you want. If it’s obstructing something you don’t want it can easily be seen as a good thing.
So, while I think that obstructionism is in this case a bad thing, I don’t expect that certain others will see it that way even were it to be exposed and exaggerated by an actual filibuster. As long as they are in the minority obstructionists will be seen as heroes, and the public spectacle of a filibuster may only put these “heroes” in an even brighter spotlight.
All I’m saying is, “be careful what you wish for.”
January 25th, 2010 at 10:25 amspaceman, even so, I’d sure like to see a game of congressional chicken in which the democrats force the republicans to go 24X7 on the floor for days, weeks or months and stay on it till the republicans screw up and leave the floor for two minutes…
January 25th, 2010 at 10:28 amThousands2Millions says:
Oh look, drhunt has changed his name AGAIN.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:32 amWhy, spaceyman – thanks for your CONCERN.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:33 amT2M:
Liberals 30, Conservatives 17
January 25th, 2010 at 10:37 amLiberals 31, Conservatives 28
drhunt aka Thousands BUSTED and gonna vote down everybody to get even. What a child.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:39 amShayne aka Cigna says:
Everyone was doing a great job of ignoring that particular troll, Shayne. Go to your room!
January 25th, 2010 at 10:40 amLeftside Annie, you are welcome. I would consider myself to be very concerned with the direction things have taken lately. I am very concerned with the wussified response given to the obstructionism. However, we are not like them.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:41 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Sorry gummitch. My bad.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:50 amHey. “Severe”… who do you like in the Super Bowl? I gotta lock in the early line.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:50 amHmm… what can we deduce from this?
Democratic presidents typically have far more polarized first-year approval ratings than do Republicans, it appears. That must mean that Democrats are more willing than their counterparts to give a president of the opposite party a chance to prove himself.
Democrats must be far less willing to wish for the president to fail if he’s not on their team. Democrats, it would appear, seem far more likely to see themselves as Americans first, Democrats second. Whereas Republicans seem much more committed to party before country.
That’s what I get out of it.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:54 amI’d say it it makes R’s look like extremists, ralph. Immoderate, and governed by emotion not rationality.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:03 amdixie blood says:
And finally: And finally: “Rush Limbaugh! The Musical”
The first act will close with a big number featuring Lush Limpballs in black face singing “Pickin’ Oxycotin”
That is hilarious :)
January 25th, 2010 at 11:05 amralph the wonder llama, official spokesllama for the Llama Milk Council® says:
Hey. “Severe”… who do you like in the Super Bowl? I gotta lock in the early line.
Vegas has the colts a 4 point fav.
but anyway it goes its a good thing for the city of NO.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:05 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Thousands2Millions says:
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The timing is perfect because we are getting near the elections.
Party before country?
Hardly. I would consider it putting the country over the party. The Dems have been too nice by letting the Republicans slide with their obstructions to legislation. It is time for the Dems to show the public what the Republicans stand for — nothing. The fact that elections are close just happens to be a bonus.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:09 amThanks, Pilotshark, but I’m more interested in Severe’s pick. He’s got a perfect track record so far.
Maybe I should ask him who he thinks are the “liberals” and who are the “conservatives” between the two teams. That would tell me on whom I should bet.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:10 amjwest isn’t getting much help from whatever treatment he’s undergoing for his delusions, is he?
Poor kid.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:11 amSomebody has to tell those Rush Limbaugh (et al.) listeners that they’re crazy and need treatment.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:12 amralph the wonder llama, official spokesllama for the Llama Milk Council® says:
@65
Awww yes you are so true on that.
So sever who is your pick?
January 25th, 2010 at 11:14 amralph the wonder llama, official spokesllama for the Llama Milk Council® says:
jwest isn’t getting much help from whatever treatment he’s undergoing for his delusions, is he?
Poor kid.
well its parents must have though delusion is like acne and it will grow out of it.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:16 amWell, the problem, as we see from our friend jwest here, is that those treatments often don’t take when the subject suffers from a severe enough cranial-rectal impaction.
Our medical community is currently researching more effective treatments, but that research of course takes a back seat to more profitable efforts like baldness cures and erectile dysfunction treatments. That’s just the way the market works to drive innovation, I guess.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:16 ambecause it was exactly what big business wanted. easy to roll ball down hill.
because of 9-figure industry propaganda campaigns, and a hysterical jihad being waged by an opposition party representing big business.
where did you get those glasses that make everything look like apples?
hard to push ball up hill with 400 fat men sitting on it.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:20 amralph the wonder llama, official spokesllama for the Llama Milk Council®,
Tea-baggers: “We’ll take a full head of hair and raging 4-hour wood over stuff like more humane forms of cancer treatment.”
January 25th, 2010 at 11:20 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Go Ed Rendell! No one can ever accuse “Fast Eddie” of being subtle. Let’s see some good old fashion filibustering in the Senate. The Republicans are too cowardly to filibuster.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:27 amLet the right-whining GOP party fillibuster to prove they hate helping out the American people. THEN ram the legislation through with reconciliation, exactly like the GOP did to the Democrats in 2000!
When the right-whiners complain, simply say “We gave you the opportunity for an up-or-down vote, but you refused to allow that. Now, we’re treating you the exact same way you treated us in 2000. Why do you complain now that you’re treated the same way? Double-standards much”
Prove to the American people that the GOP “Party of No Ideas, No Progress, and NO to the American People” have sold their souls to the insurance companies for profit and AGAINST the American people!
January 25th, 2010 at 11:30 amWhen it comes to Democratic Presidents, “polarized poll ratings” are not a measure of polarization at all. They actually measure the candidate’s popularity with normal people.
The Repubs will automatically hate any Democratic candidate. This is a given. So the “polarized poll ratings” for any Democrat are equivalent to “being popular with the rest of humanity.” The more popular a Democrat is, the more “polarizing” he is!
The Chronicles of Rahm, a Satyre.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:32 amjwest,
The guy who mispronounced the word nuclear is intelligent? And unlike Obama wasn’t born rich…Bush on the other-hand was born with a silver spoon…in his nose. Do I have to make anymore Bush is dumb jokes to get my point across?
Democrat Soldier,
January 25th, 2010 at 11:33 amKick the mother-f***ing right-wingers out of office. If they are just there to obstruct and sell-out…they have no right to represent the people.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
oh, bizzarobrain, can’t you tell when jwest is pulling your leg? I mean, come on… no one could say the things he says and be serious about them.
He just thinks if he says something outrageous, like “Bush is more intelligent than Obama” he’ll get us to bite, thinking he’s serious, and then he gets the conflict-based arousal he depends on.
But, c’mon… Bush more intelligent than Obama? Even jwest isn’t that stupid.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:39 amIt’s more complex than their I.Q.’s. And honestly the grade thing is a non-issue to me, the only people who bring it up are people who wish to slander him. Honestly Obama just needs to man up and start doing his job with more efficiency.
“Lacking any evidence, you just need to rely on performance. Obama couldn’t get a resolution passed saying today is Monday.”
Citation needed.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:43 am#40 – Thousands2Millions says:
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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“Let them fillibuster to prove they hate helping out the American people.”
“Actually, they are helping.”
January 25th, 2010 at 10:07 am
So, refusing to reign in the insurance companies that believe in profits over the lives of American people is “helping”?
You have a twisted idea of what “help” means. Unless you believe that profits are more important than American lives, that is. . . .
January 25th, 2010 at 11:43 amralph the wonder llama, official spokesllama for the Llama Milk Council®:
January 25th, 2010 at 11:45 amI hope he’s not serious. If he’s calling the current president stupid for not being able to pass major stuff like single-payer health-care…he’s been watching too much Fox.
jwest says:
Sure, Obama’s clean and articulate, but unlike George Bush, people don’t trust him to tell the absolute truth.
I think some people don’t trust Obama to tell the absolute truth because Bush didn’t tell them the absolute truth.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:45 amRalph,
Every test or grade Bush received is public record now. Obama hasn’t released anything and nothing has been leaked by the institutions he attended.
Do you really think if Barack’s record was better than Bush’s either his people or a proud supporter wouldn’t get it out to the public?
More importantly, if Obama was one-tenth as smart as liberals would like to believe, why can’t he get anything done?
January 25th, 2010 at 11:47 am“Nearly three out of four Americans think that at least half of the money spent in the federal stimulus plan has been wasted,” according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll. Sixty-three percent said “that projects in the plan were included for purely political reasons and will have no economic benefit” while just 36 percent say the projects will benefit the economy.
Unfortunately these majority beliefs are based on total ignorance. It is crystal clear from the GDP numbers compiled and released by the BEA of the DOC that the stimulus has increased aggregate demand and output beyond what it would have been without the stimulus. Geez!
Of course the capitalist, corporate media is culpable since they could repeat this fact over and over again. But they won’t since facts don’t attract views, increase ad revenue and therefore profits; but the trivial, salacious and silly do.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:50 amMore importantly, if Obama was one-tenth as smart as liberals would like to believe, why can’t he get anything done?
He lowered my mortgage payment in half. Bush didn’t lift a finger to help struggling homeowners.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:50 amjwest says:
Facts are hard things to argue with.
Sure, Obama’s clean and articulate, but unlike George Bush, people don’t trust him to tell the absolute truth. The reason so many democrats voted for every program and bill promoted by the Bush administration was that they knew they could rely on Bush to give them the straight story, not the fantasies Barack is peddling.
This is a joke, right? Dems voted with Bush because he gave them the straight story? Did you forget that Bush lied about Iraq which is the only reason why Dems voted for his authority on Iraq? There were 23 Dem in the Senate and 133 House members that voted against the Iraq resolution. And in the end they were right.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:53 amSee what IO mean, bizarrobrain? jwest just can’t help himself. I’m guessing he can’t get a “rise” out of himself so he’s trying to get one out of us.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:54 amShayne – I’m sorry, I voted you down by mistake. I meant to vote you up. Yikes! What a screwup.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:55 amPerhaps I’m being too hard on Obama.
It could be he’s every bit as smart as George Bush, but the people he needs to rely on simply aren’t of the same caliber that Bush had.
Barack doesn’t have a Cheney, Rove or Rumsfield to help him get his agenda through. Hell, even his top three advisors can’t agree on the same lie for “jobs created” on the Sunday shows.
As you know, I like to be fair. So maybe I’ll wait a little while long before pronouncing judgment on Obama.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:56 amMore importantly, if Obama was one-tenth as smart as liberals would like to believe, why can’t he get anything done?
This is your brain…this is your brain on Fox. Do you actually read/watch any real news? Yes it is partially Obama’s fault for putting up with their shit for so long but Republicans and Conservatives are opposing everything from health-care reform to regulation just out of spite or to make a quick buck. I’ve never seen the right act more childish in my life.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:58 amralph the wonder llama, official spokesllama for the Llama Milk Council®:
I’m just wondering how long we will have to put up with their stupidity and callousness. I’m tired of it after one year.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:01 pmjwest says:
Perhaps I’m being too hard on Obama.
It could be he’s every bit as smart as George Bush, but the people he needs to rely on simply aren’t of the same caliber that Bush had.
Barack doesn’t have a Cheney, Rove or Rumsfield to help him get his agenda through. Hell, even his top three advisors can’t agree on the same lie for “jobs created” on the Sunday shows.
We are mildly entertained by your ridiculous assertions. Obama got into Harvard on his merits. Bush did not have enough brains to get into Yale or Harvard so his family bought him those seats. Bush also did not have the money buy all those businesses he worked in; he comes from a very rich family.
Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove helped Bush? They lied to Congress and to the people. That was the only way Bush would get the Iraq war resolution passed. Then after the war they botched the reconstruction of the country which is why we are still there. Many of the former Baathists become insurgents because they were excluded from the government, army and police which left them without a job or income.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:07 pmRendell is right. It’s easy to say no. When Republicans are compelled to filibuster, people will become frustrated over the legislative shutdown. As time goes on people, will start to ask the question: “What’s the Republican solution, if they won’t support the Democratic plans?”
I don’t think Republicans have palatable answers to that question.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:08 pmThe MSM would cover the filibusters and no matter how much the Republicans try to justify the filibuster, most voters will remember the filibusters and not why. This is particularly true when there are successive filibusters. It would not be good for Republicans to have to explain multiple filibusters to the public.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:12 pmbackup,
January 25th, 2010 at 12:13 pmI kinda agree with you. The Republicans have no answers/solutions. The only reason I disagree is because I’m not sure the Democrats are willing to stand up to the Republicans.
YOU can tell Aundray “Randy Pants” Bauer what you think:
http://www.andrebauer.com/
OR!!! Email him:
ANDRE@ANDREBAUER.COM
I personally suggest a good neutering for Mr. Bau-Wow-er.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:13 pmNext up on jwest’s attempt’s to get a rise out of liberals: claim that George W. Bush has a better outside jumper than Obama. “If Obama didn’t think Bush had a better outside game, why doesn’t he challenge him to a one-on-one?”
January 25th, 2010 at 12:29 pmhahahahahaha
We have a troll who is defending the IQ of George Bush — his academic grades are proof, he says.
As if an ivy league school or private prep school would fail the son of a benefactor, or the son of the CIA chief — haha!
Wasn’t it the Saudis who were enlisted to help out the Bush ne-er-do-well son, Dumbya, in more than one enterprise because he was so incompetent and a drunk as well.
OTOH, Obama’s academic record speaks for itself. In college on scholarships and loans — President of the Harvard Law Review — two books published — offers from many presitigous law firms turned down because money and riches were not his goal.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:32 pmBTW, Obama finally paid off his student loans with book profits — ten years ago! Bush, OTOH, never had to work for a thing, never had to worry about money, never had to be responsible — and it still shows.
Finally, where is Dumbya now? He’s supposed to be working on the Haiti project but I haven’t seen nor heard about him since the announcement.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
There is no if little troll. You are probably the only republican that would say that.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:50 pmCareful, that’s how he always starts.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:53 pmDegree’s don’t count, eh little troll?
They counted when mr business took the country to the ditch. Why?
January 25th, 2010 at 12:55 pmIt looks to me like jwest is trying to better himself, perhaps taking an introductory course in philosophy or something, and the thought struck him, “hey, I can argue just about anything, and no matter how outlandish, if I just claim it’s true, and come up with a minimal rationalization for it, they have to rebut, thus giving my ridiculous argument some legitimacy. Especially if I keep insisting. After all, it’s not like I ever have to acknowledge reality. This will be great!”
Okay, okay, I embellished jwest’s inner monologue a little. No one really believes he’d ever take a philosophy course, and all of that calculation I described would have to be subconscious because jwest doesn’t appear able to formulate and express complex thoughts of his own.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:58 pmjwest studied the art of plausible fallacy and made a B+
January 25th, 2010 at 12:58 pmOkay, Fred, that makes more sense.
That’s a required course at Troll College, isn’t it?
January 25th, 2010 at 1:00 pmPalin didn’t pay her own way and she flunked out of two or three colleges. She had to go to what, 5 or 6 different schools to finally get a degree?
I knew you admired mediocrity. You’ve been defending bush all morning.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:01 pmAnd as far as his books, unless he and Bill Ayers grew up in the same house and learned the same phrases, it is highly improbable that Obama ever wrote anything.
This is one of my favorite IncrediblyStupidTrollTalkingPoints. “Bill Ayers wrote Obama’s books.” Not a shred of evidence, no logic, but that’s what wingnuts thrive on.
I’m just waiting for the “Bill Ayers secretly traveled to Hawaii in the 1960s and planted the newspaper article about Obama’s birth, knowing that one day they would rule the world!”
Wipe off the spittle, troll, and take your meds.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:01 pmjwest says:
If Obama had better grades or a higher I.Q., why hasn’t the proof been released or leaked?
Scholarships for an articulate black student at the time Obama was accepted at Harvard? I’m surprised he didn’t get a signing bonus. During the early days of the affirmative action craze, colleges were fighting each other for any remotely qualified person of color.
Although Harvard may have had an affirmative action policy, I can assure you that the school still has extremely high standards for all of its students. You have to have excellent grades from a highly rated school to get considered by Harvard. The only way affirmative action would come into play is when the school has to choose between two equally qualified people, one white and one black, for the seat. Obama was on Law Review which is limited to the top 3% of any law school class. Eventually, Obama became a Constitutional Law professor at the University of Chicago which has equally high standards for students and faculty. U of C is on par with Harvard and Yale.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:02 pmI don’t think they call it a college, they call it lying and propaganda seminars brought to you by the gop.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:03 pmFred,
The reason you can’t explain why Obama’s records are kept secret is that you know I’m right.
Just as with his original birth certificate, if the documents agreed with the liberal spin, they would have been released the day after someone mentioned them (or before). The world is still waiting for John Kerry to release his military records, years after the Swift Boat Veterans exposed him for the fraud he is.
There is no reason helpful information would be locked away.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:05 pmFred ♪♫♪,
January 25th, 2010 at 1:07 pmI know I shouldn’t engage the trolls but I’m really talkative and happy today. I just got a job at Honeywell as a server tech. My pay went from $21 at WDSglobal (old-job) to an hour to $28 at Honeywell.
The reason I can’t explain anything to you is because you are an ignorant troll who lives to lie and support your lies with false and childish notions.
You are not intelligent enough to accept proof. This is a fact and has been proven repeatedly on this forum.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:09 pmbizarrobrain (Sponsored by Tysons chicken in a tube!) says:
Great news bizarrobrain, congratulations. Will that eventually turn into a salaried position?
If only our trolls were able to work and contribute to society.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:11 pmjwest needs to learn a basic fact. When you screw up an entire nation and effect the economies of the world with your irrational fiscal policies and forign policies, you don’t get to question your replacements qualifications.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:13 pmPags2,
You must be very young not to remember the competition to acquire and display “diversity” on college campuses. This was an era when someone as ridiculously stupid as Cornell West was accepted at Harvard at 17 years old.
The Law Review was trying to make up for 150 years of oppression by the white devil slavemasters. Law firms at that time were scrambling to put black attorneys on staff to avoid discrimination suits.
Face it. Obama was just born at the right time.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:14 pmFred, jwest needs to learn a lot of basic facts.
Sadly, he doesn’t appear equipped to handle the workload.
Oh and congrats, biazarro!
January 25th, 2010 at 1:16 pmThank you.
It’s a IT job with a salary but I don’t expect to be making big bucks here but it helps further my career.
Yeah good luck getting some of them to work, they’re too busy protesting everything they hate in our society. Remember when protesting was a traitorous act in the Bush years?
January 25th, 2010 at 1:19 pmYou guys are just playing jwest’s stupid game by refuting his fundamentally stupid premise. He can say whatever he wants, rationalize it in any way he chooses, and it doesn’t matter how easily refuted it is, because he doesn’t observe the same rules of logic and reason as the rest of us do.
He can and will ignore all evidence to the contrary and continue to insist on his idiotic premise, because all he’s doing is trying to get “Little jwest” to come to life.
It’s a sign of how deep his pathology is that it’s taking him this long.
Seriously, he could make a case every bit as compelling for the claim that Bush has a better jump shot than Obama.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:21 pmBizzaro,
Congratulations. I’m sure you deserved the job and the increase.
We sent our son out to San Francisco for Cisco router training when he was 17. It paid off well for him.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:21 pmThanks Ralph.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:21 pmface it, bush was a moron who screwed up everthing he touched and you republicans cheered him on.
Obama is just the man of the hour who has inherited your mess. It happens every time a republican has been in office.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:22 pmjwest,
Even though you annoy me sometimes…thanks.
IT jobs are very good jobs to have…basically as long as people have computers there will always be IT guys.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:23 pmjwest now wants to act like he’s just one of the boys. Like he hasn’t been here lying his ass off and that we basically accept him as one of us because he contributes to the discussion.
What do they call that? delusion?
January 25th, 2010 at 1:24 pmRalph,
You don’t need a Vulcan mind meld to get your head around my simple question.
If the records would reflect well on Obama, why keep them secret?
Come on, just a little curiosity would help.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:25 pmYou wouldn’t accept a fact if was presented and proven. Oh wait, it has been and you don’t accept it. Never mind.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:26 pmIn his State of the Union address this week, President Obama will propose “a package of modest initiatives intended to help middle-class families, including tax credits for child care, caps on some student loan payments,” and other retirement incentives. The proposal also includes “money for programs to help families care for elderly relatives.”
This really says all that needs said. Hundreds of billions in bailouts for Wall Street and “modest initiatives intended to help middle class families…”
Geez. Buyer’s remorse much?
January 25th, 2010 at 1:27 pmjwest, you don’t need to be hit on the head to be able to judge the relative intelligence level of two public figures by their words and actions. Yet you find that public record far less useful for your silly self-indulgent purpose than this little game you insist on playing.
Seriously, why not just assert that Bush has a better jump shot than Obama? There’s as much evidence for that contention as there is for the one you’re flogging like a dead mule.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:30 pmjwest says:
Pags2,
You must be very young not to remember the competition to acquire and display “diversity” on college campuses….
The Law Review was trying to make up for 150 years of oppression by the white devil slavemasters. Law firms at that time were scrambling to put black attorneys on staff to avoid discrimination suits.
I am old enough to remember affirmative action and how it was implemented. You want us to believe that Harvard, Law Review and U of C are all affirmative action. Now you are being absurd. When Obama went to law school the number of applicants for a seat in any law school was about 50. I can assure you that Harvard had a lot more applicants.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:31 pmjwest says:
Ralph,
You don’t need a Vulcan mind meld to get your head around my simple question.
If the records would reflect well on Obama, why keep them secret?
Why should any person or institution release records just to satisfy your curiosity? If you don’t think Obama earned his degree, take it up with the Registrar.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:31 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Yeah, cause we all know the republicans will support the opposite, right?
January 25th, 2010 at 1:35 pmIf Obama was on Law Review his grades would be almost all A’s.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:35 pmSo you foolishly cling to the ignorant notion that all people with good paying jobs are republicans?
elections 06 & 08 should tell you that you might be wrong.
besides, your own mentor says:
I again submit that you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:39 pmjwest says:
January 25th, 2010 at 1:40 pmI worked hard for this job…and I will never become a Republican. I’m not aiming to get really rich, I just want to be able to support myself and my wife and my family. There’s nothing selfish about that.
jwest finally admits that Republicans vote the way they do because they see the world in terms of “I got mine; fu(k the rest of you.”
Classy.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:43 pmRalph,
“Seriously, he could make a case every bit as compelling for the claim that Bush has a better jump shot than Obama.”
Although George Bush has been an athlete his entire life, I don’t know how well he plays basketball. With Obama, I’ve never seen him play either.
Being a conservative, I don’t automatically think someone is going to be a great basketball player simply because he is black.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:45 pmralph the wonder llama, official spokesllama for the Llama Milk Council® says:
It’s immoral.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:48 pmFred@132: Good point. Republicans will have to either support Obama (very unlikely) or oppose these initiatives while not alienating the middle class by making the initiatives out to be harmful rather than beneficial. If I had to guess, I’d say they’ll paint tax credits for child-care with the “Welfare Queen” brush (more kids=more government money), caps on student loan payments as socialism, and money to help families care for elderly relatives as more “death panels,” in that not all families will receive this aid and therefore the government must favor certain elderly relatives over others. I’m not sure what they’d do with the retirement incentives, though.
And yeah, I fully realize how ludicrous (and painfully old and overused) those arguments are, but let’s watch and see,
January 25th, 2010 at 1:51 pmBut you didn’t have any problem implying that Obama got where he is through affirmitive action. Racist liar.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:53 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
That’s because Republicans are getting more and more extreme (and partisan). It hurt them to lose both Congress and the Presidency, and they take it out on Obama; to them, power uber alles is where it’s at. It’s not that Obama’s a raving leftie (except in the hallucinations of wingnut radio and TPers). It’s that he’s a Democrat, period.
Cheers,
January 25th, 2010 at 1:56 pmjwest, shut up puss brain. It’s you on the right that keep minimum wage below an already unrealisticly low poverty level.
Again, you failed again and your ideas are not welcome in any way. We don’t give a big rats ass what you think.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:57 pmFred,
As Obama says himself in “Dreams of my Father”, he owes his acceptance at Harvard to affirmative action. Although he doesn’t admit it openly, he does acknowledge there were other students who, based on academic performance, deserved the Law Review editorship more than he.
Facts and history, not speculation.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:58 pmjwest:
January 25th, 2010 at 2:02 pmDon’t you Republicans say that it okay for everyone to make a profit? I have the right to support my family. I’m not selfish at all. I give away some money to charities…I donate clothes, books and toys throughout the year. And I give money during emergencies.
Only if there were a consistent moral code that dictated as much.
You clearly wouldn’t know anything about such a moral code, and you’re just throwing out a cartoon picture of what you imagine a liberal might believe.
Judging by your contributions here, you’re not interested in any moral code other than your own, except as a means to “trap” someone with whom you have fundamental disagreements about morality, so your question is dishonest to begin with.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:06 pmbizzarobrain.
If you’re advancing in this job market, you must have your stuff together.
Congratulations.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:07 pm#100: jwest says:
Dubya was turned down (for obvious reasons) at the second-tier at best UT law school). Obama graduated magna cum laude from one of the top two law schools in the country. You figger it out .. or not, as your own capabilities may dictate.
Cheers,
January 25th, 2010 at 2:08 pmThanks backup.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:10 pmCan you produce a quote that says as much?
Why do I suspect that if and when jwest produces such a quote, it will say something other than what jwest suggests, and his highly personal interpretation will depend largely on a skewed vision of either language or the world?
But, on the off chance that President Obama did in fact say “I owe my acceptance at Harvard to affirmative action”, wouldn’t his subsequent success as editor of the Law Review, graduation with highest honors and exmplary record of public service demonstrate that affirmative action worked the way it was intended?
In other words, it gave a talented student an opportunity that he would have been otherwise denied because of the disparities in education. Isn’t that what affirmative action is supposed to be?
January 25th, 2010 at 2:15 pmBizzaro,
Of course you deserve to make as much money as you can. I’m just pulling your chain a little.
Conservatives believe people should be able to do and make whatever they want. We believe there should be a “safety net” for those who can’t provide for themselves. Where conservatives and liberals differ is the method and goals.
We think that programs should be designed to help and motivate individuals to succeed. Liberals tend to promote programs that perpetuate poverty. We believe that educational systems need to produce results, and if they don’t, they need to be changed. Liberals want to maintain the status quo in order to gain the votes of the teacher’s unions.
Conservatives believe that all people should have an equal opportunity. Liberals believe that the outcome for all people should be equal.
We believe in the dignity of the individual. We believe people are better at spending their money than having the government spend it on their behalf.
You’re too smart not to become a conservative. Give it time.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:18 pmyet you said Obama got to where he is through affirmitive action.
See, Ralph is right about you. Your thinking goes in circles depending on what is thrown at you.
You can’t be taken seriously.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:21 pmralph. I’m happy for bizzaro and I think he should enjoy the fruits of his labor.
jwest raises an interesting question.
Unless I’m mistaken, most people that earn below the nationally average in the U.S. would be considered rich relative to the average world income.
If it’s a moral obligation for the top income earners to fund the social safety net for the lower half in the U.S.; in a broader context, should it be a moral obligation for those earning above 50% of the world income average to fund those making less than the world average?
More simply: If we started to consider the total world population as one population. With a shared responsibility. Would it be a moral obligation for someone making $20,000 in the U.S. to contribute up to half their salary to fund global infrastructure and social programs for world’s poor?
Would those currently not funding the U.S. obligations be open to funding the Worlds’?
January 25th, 2010 at 2:21 pmBarack Obama has not released transcripts for his grades from Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law. He has also not released his SAT and LSAT scores. No explanation has been offered for not releasing them.
Per the Wall Street Journal September 11, 2008, “Obama’s Lost Years,” Obama graduated from Columbia University (to which he transferred after his first two years at Occidental College in California), with a degree in Political Science without honors, so had a GPA less than a 3.3. His roomate Sohale Siddiqi indicated Obama itially felt alienated, felt “very lost,” and used drugs to get high, which could have led to low grades initially. The roomate indicates that he then turned serious and “stopped getting high.” Obama transferred to Columbia because he was concerned with urban issues. Based on his overall undergraduate GPA of less than a 3.3, Mr. Obama’s admission to Harvard Law School may reflect affirmative action statutes, low grades early, then higher grades later (purely speculation) and/or other factors.
At Harvard Law School, Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude, which, according to the Havard Law School website, is awarded to the top 10% of Harvard Law School students.
Also at Harvard Law School, Obama was accepted as one of 85-90 Editors of the Harvard Law Review, out of an estimated 1,000 students from the 2L and 3L classes that might have sought this honor. Obama was also elected President of the Law Review, which according to a Harvard Law spokesperson is not based at all on academics, but on other measures as would occure in any club.
From WikiAnswers:
January 25th, 2010 at 2:23 pmhttp://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_were_Barack_Obama’s_grades_in_college
#111 jwest says:
Just as with his original birth certificate, if the documents agreed with the liberal spin, they would have been released …
Responding to moronity with anything other than ridicule and scorn just validates the moronity as being within the pale and not the nonsense and vacuity that it is (and here I must admit to my own culpability here as well: mea culpa). It just sets a precedent for more such moronity down the line. Responding to ridiculous requests just demeans oneself and encourages the eedjits. And it lets them set the topic and the message.
Not to mention, it doesn’t matter</i< to these morons if you do respond. They’ll just dismiss what you give them, and demand more (see, e.g., the birth certificate that you were already given….)
This is probably too difficult for you to understand, but there it is. Further requests for clarification will be denied. We don’t need you to understand; we just want you to SFTU.
Cheers,
January 25th, 2010 at 2:24 pmjwest = most utterly arrogant righty poster ever, and that’s saying a lot.
such an unattractive personality trait to lead with.
truly repellent.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:26 pmjwest says:
wiki? I thought you wanted to be taken seriously…..
again, take it up with someone who give a shit.
We owe you nothing, not explainations or anything else.
You on the other hand have some explaining to do. Your failures are hung around your neck like noose and you want to hold others repsonible for your failures.
You suck.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:27 pmWhy can’t the right-whiners click on a link? Because the facts don’t agree with their talking points.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg
It’s too bad they didn’t ask for proof of Fmr. VPres. Cheney’s residence in Wyoming. I guess double-standards are a wonderful thing for right-whiners! Sort of how they complain about deficit spending now that Pres. Bush is no longer in office, but did you every hear a single one of them complain between 2001 and 2008? Just once? Nope, not even once.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:33 pm“Conservatives believe people should be able to do and make whatever they want. We believe there should be a “safety net” for those who can’t provide for themselves. Where conservatives and liberals differ is the method and goals.”
Here’s the problem: when I see conservatives fighting against unions, when I see conservatives fighting to lower the minimum wage or siding with companies that will just piss away our retirement money.
“We think that programs should be designed to help and motivate individuals to succeed. Liberals tend to promote programs that perpetuate poverty. We believe that educational systems need to produce results, and if they don’t, they need to be changed. Liberals want to maintain the status quo in order to gain the votes of the teacher’s unions.”
In the past ten years anyone who even brought up education reform or anti-rape laws…the Republicans usually voted against it…saying it “cost to much.” Through out the Bush admin., liberals were fighting for education reform. And what’s wrong with wanting everyone to be equal? And the “dignity of the individual” thing is fine but some republicans take it too far and use that as an excuse to be selfish. I have nothing wrong with taxes…as long as they are reasonable and I want to know where my money is going, how it’s spent. As long as I get my moneys worth…say with issues like health care…I’m fine and I will remain a liberal.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:33 pmBizzaro,
Let’s try to address some of the fine points you raise.
“Here’s the problem: when I see conservatives fighting against unions, when I see conservatives fighting to lower the minimum wage or siding with companies that will just piss away our retirement money.”
Conservatives believe unions try to repress people who want to work harder or smarter in order to reward others for remaining alive and employed longer than their peers. Seniority trumps ability, so if you are a star, too bad. Wait your turn.
Minimum wage laws reduce the employment opportunities for all people trying to break into the job market. Unions are big advocates of higher minimum wages because a number of their contracts are tied to multiples and percentages based on that wage. These myths about conservatives opposing minimum wage laws because of greed are rooted in the fundamental misunderstanding liberals have of all matters relating to the economy and business.
True conservatives don’t believe a company should have anything to do with a person’s retirement money. Most company-run retirement plans were formed as a way around liberal tax policy. Ideally, a person should be paid what the market dictates and the individual would make their own retirement savings decisions.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:48 pmI like Gov. Rendell, basically he is telling them to put their cards on the table!
January 25th, 2010 at 2:49 pmAgain, no one gives a big rats ass what you have to say.
You are the one who needs to explain your failures. We owe you nothing.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:50 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
First honest thing you’ve ever said. You are pathetic.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:56 pmjwest, seriously, how much do you get paid to troll? per post or by the hour?
January 25th, 2010 at 3:01 pmFred. Would you support an initiative where we would empower a world agency to collected taxes from the world’s richest 50% to fund infrastructure and safety nets for the world’s poor, if that initiative would result in Americans earning as little as $20,000 contributing up to half their incomes to support the initiative?
January 25th, 2010 at 3:01 pmConservatives believe unions try to repress people who want to work harder or smarter in order to reward others for remaining alive and employed longer than their peers. Seniority trumps ability, so if you are a star, too bad. Wait your turn.
But I thought conservatives always said that if a minimum wage job doesn’t support a worker, they should just move on to one that does. Isn’t it the same with union workers? If they are a “star,” shouldn’t they be moving on to a new, more rewarding position? Or do you even understand what you’re talking about?
January 25th, 2010 at 3:02 pmb-cup, first of all, jwest has never raised an interesting question — only straw men and diversions.
Second of all, you’re talking to the wrong guy when it comes to the moral aspects of tax policy. I know others make moral arguments about it, but not me. My position is that sensible progressive taxation results in a better functioning economy.
History shows us this, as whenever tax policies favor the rich and the disparity between rich and poor increase, financial collapse inevitably follows. By contrast, the most prosperous periods for the overall economy have always grown out of higher marginal tax rates, which led to a growing middle class.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:05 pmjwest:
Minimum wage laws reduce the employment opportunities for all people trying to break into the job market. Unions are big advocates of higher minimum wages because a number of their contracts are tied to multiples and percentages based on that wage. These myths about conservatives opposing minimum wage laws because of greed are rooted in the fundamental misunderstanding liberals have of all matters relating to the economy and business.
As opposed to the fundamental misunderstanding that conservatives have of all matters relating to the economy and business.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Ah, yes, I’ve missed the “b-cup fanciful hypothetical”… we used to see two or three of these a week around here. Always entertaining they are.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:06 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The funny thing is, every comment jwest has ever made here is so much closer in tone and spirit to this one than it is to anything resembling rational discourse.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:10 pmjwest says:
I’ve seen Conservatives demonize unions…the people in unions have usually been financially and a few have probably had their lives destroyed by a lot of the laws that Republicans seem to favor. Republicans fight against education reform and they only get more annoying year after year. They throw out complaints such as, “it costs too much” even in a good economy. And if you’re complaining that the left is lazy…so is the right…most of the GOP’s ex-fan club members (sponsored by Fox) only recently became politically active. Which I guess is why the watch Fox News.
The more money people have…through higher paying jobs they happier they are…conservatives oppose food stamps for the people that they screwed and now they’re trying to vote out health-care! And “true conservatism” is dead…when the Supreme Court sold us out and you conservatives cheered. You don’t want reasonable taxes, you want no taxes…that’s all I’ve been hearing them scream for the past few years. Yes even in the Bush era they were bleating about abolishing taxes.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:14 pmTed assumed that bush would fund it. He did not.
Your war on unions is a lost cause.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:16 pmConservatives oppose unions for one reason: people in unions demand and get better wages and benefits. Any happy horseshit about how workers are better off without unions is so ridiculous I don’t think even conservatives believe it.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:21 pmGummitch,
We could both post reams of data and opinion on the minimum wage laws.
The basic premise is that the market is a much better arbiter of proper wage levels than the government. Conservatives believe this, liberals don’t.
As we shepard Bizarro along on his journey from low-paid liberal to rich conservative, we just want him to have the basics so he can explore the details himself.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:22 pmNo, concervatives use the free market to keep people in poverty. That’s not an opinion, that is a fact.
Unions cause that effort great problems. Thus the hatred for unions.
See middle class vanishing under bush. Most of those peoople did not go up the ladder idiot.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:26 pmAnd then jwest and all of the republicans side with the money over the people…companies don’t give a shit about the people. And you and all of the nice people in business suits sipping wine and smoking fancy cigars are saying “thank you to the Supreme Court” for screwing big time…once again. Way to protect We The People. There may be true Conservatives out there but all I see is trolls and racist idiots with racist signs.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:30 pmralph. I appreciate your answer and you have a strong argument.
But, often the justification for a progressive tax rate is not like yours. It’s based more on an idea that America’s rich have won life’s lottery and/or benefitted disproportionately from American society (often at the expense of the poor). And that the rich should pay more, do to that assessment.
The problem is that it would be relatively easy to have that opinion for those not responsible for the tax burden.
Many progressives are top wage earners, but I think progressive ideas would be a much harder sell, if the majority of the people were also responsible for funding them.
I believe that many of the people that root on progressive initiatives to improve society (but require higher taxation) would be less supportive if the tax burden would fall on them.
If we broaden the society to be the whole world. And broadened the richest 50% to include those making more than $7000 a year*, more people in the U.S. would be interested about the necessity of the programs and how effectively the money is being spent. In essence, more fiscally conservative.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2007/10/07/average_earnings_worldwide/
January 25th, 2010 at 3:31 pm*screwing up*
January 25th, 2010 at 3:31 pmThat basic premise is wrong. It fails to take into account, as does every theory I’ve ever seen of free market fundamentalism, the difference between long-term and short-term benefit.
The spectacular meltdown of the financial sector in 2008 illustrates the disaster that comes from letting the market determine the best interests of the economy when that market is peopled with those whose personal interests lay solely in maximizing short-term gain.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:32 pmjwest says:
Gummitch,
We could both post reams of data and opinion on the minimum wage laws.
The basic premise is that the market is a much better arbiter of proper wage levels than the government. Conservatives believe this, liberals don’t.
That’s because liberals prefer data and results over “belief.” Conservatives “know” that minimum wages laws are bad, therefore they need no evidence. Just like GWB and his gut feelings.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:32 pmI see, b-cup. So you acknowledge that my point is a strong one, so you’re going to argue the point I dismissed instead.
well done.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:33 pmBizzarro,
You can’t believe this cartoon image of conservatives that gets played in websites like this or through the rantings of lunatics like Keith Olbermann.
Conservatives are warm, caring, selfless individuals who love puppies and butterflies.
We’re not racists, we care about the environment and our children are all above average.
And if you see us clubbing baby seals, you can bet it’s for their own good. (just kidding)
January 25th, 2010 at 3:34 pmralph. No. I believe your argument works for the U.S., but it would be a tougher sell to many that currently support the progressive tax rate in U.S., if we broadened the responsibility to be a global one and included those making as little as $7000 a year in the group responsible for the funding.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:38 pmjwest says:
Conservatives believe people should be able to do and make whatever they want. We believe there should be a “safety net” for those who can’t provide for themselves. Where conservatives and liberals differ is the method and goals.
We think that programs should be designed to help and motivate individuals to succeed. Liberals tend to promote programs that perpetuate poverty. We believe that educational systems need to produce results, and if they don’t, they need to be changed. Liberals want to maintain the status quo in order to gain the votes of the teacher’s unions.
What conservatives say and what they vote for is two different things. A minimum wage job in this country cannot support one person let alone a family. The Republicans have criticized minimum wage laws, but if companies paid their employees a decent wage, we would not need a minimum wage law or unions. The same logic applies to fringe benefits such as health care, pensions, etc. There is no reason to believe any of the other Republican spew about social welfare programs and what they believe.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:38 pmIf that were true you should be able to point us to some conservative legislation that backs it up.
I’ll wait.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:38 pmThis from the guy who said not half an hour earlier, “Conservatives care about actually teaching kids to read and write. Liberal care about getting the teacher’s union votes. It’s as simple as that.“
Does jwest wonder why he’s got no credibility around here?
January 25th, 2010 at 3:39 pmAh, I see now b-cup. You’re suggesting that it would be a harder sell in a fanciful dream scenario that is not going to happen.
Thanks for clearing that up.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:40 pmNeeds to be repeated.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:41 pmJwest,
If you’re going to go around labeling who is and who isn’t a true “true conservative”…I must ask: what do you think the criteria for being a true conservative is? Because everyone is claiming to be a true (whatever) and when I see people going by conservative and then they become a tea-bagger and start spewing racist shit everywhere. Fox is racist. Forums are racist. Maybe I am generalizing but it seems like the conservative ideology of today is far different than it was during the revolution, the civil war and the civil rights fights. And get way from your obsession with Keith Olbermann.
“Conservatives are warm, caring, selfless individuals who love puppies and butterflies.”
Seriously calling for a civil war is caring? Calling for assassination is okay with you? Is Mocking the poor truly selfless? And mocking and blaming people for disasters, rape and violence…is that not disgusting?
January 25th, 2010 at 3:47 pmRalph,
Walk through this statement logically:
“Conservatives care about actually teaching kids to read and write. Liberal care about getting the teacher’s union votes. It’s as simple as that.“
According to liberal doctrine, conservatives are greedy. Conservatives want kids to learn to read and do math so that we can exploit them when they graduate. If we don’t need to waste time teaching them to read product tags or how to make change for a dollar, we greedy conservatives make more money. Also, if the kids learn in school, there is a much better chance that we conservatives won’t need to support them with our tax dollars for the rest of their lives.
Now, on the other hand, liberals know that if someone doesn’t know how to read or do math, the likelihood of them voting democrat is nearly 100%. If liberals actually demanded accountability in our schools, they would immediately lose half the teachers as a reliable voting block.
Logically, which party has a better reason to get kids to learn?
January 25th, 2010 at 3:52 pmRalph,
Walk through this statement logically:
“Conservatives care about actually teaching kids to read and write. Liberal care about getting the teacher’s union votes. It’s as simple as that.“
According to liberal doctrine, conservatives are greedy. Conservatives want kids to learn to read and do math so that we can exploit them when they graduate.
The tell us why conservatives (Republicans) always slash education funds as a money saving device.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:00 pmralph. It will never happen, but it’s an attempt to understand some resistance to progressive initiatives.
Hypotheticals are a way to get others to think about things they otherwise wouldn’t (or couldn’t) consider.
They’re like a fiction book. Just because they aren’t real, doesn’t mean they can’t cause you to broaden your perspective.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:00 pmjwest:
Now, on the other hand, liberals know that if someone doesn’t know how to read or do math, the likelihood of them voting democrat is nearly 100%. If liberals actually demanded accountability in our schools, they would immediately lose half the teachers as a reliable voting block.
Logically, which party has a better reason to get kids to learn?
Kids that can’t read or write are more likely teabaggers, judging from their parents showing up for rallies. You really are completely confused, aren’t you?
January 25th, 2010 at 4:03 pmBizzarro,
Are you really going to project what one nut says to a whole group of people? If you see a sign at a Tea Party rally that says Obama is a Nazi, do you think everyone there agrees with that? Who is calling for civil war? The only assassination talk I’ve heard was the book and movie about “The assassination of George Bush”.
Naturally, there are some disgusting people and things associated with both parties. That jerk preacher who was say Haiti made a deal with devil was immediately condemned by every right wing website and pundit that I know of. Of course, when a left wing radio host says that the underwear bomber was planted by the Republican Party, the left stays quiet.
Rape? We know a few girls that like it a little rough, but not rape. I know you are probably referring to the idiot Frankin’s “anti-rape” amendment, but that was just too much political grandstanding.
Violence? When used against terrorists, we’re all for it.
Bizzarro, you must know some conservatives in real life. Are they as you describe them?
January 25th, 2010 at 4:05 pmHealthcare reform is not anything like what you described. You associate it with the absurd to fit an agenda.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:08 pmWhat “logic” exists in that statement is all of the cartoon variety you so disparaged in bizarro’s comment. That was my point.
You have no credibility here. Your “logical” analyses are rife with bad assumptions and informed by faulty definitions.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:14 pmYes, except for those who have turned their backs on the current insanity and no longer affiliate with your kind. There are many of these people.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:15 pmPags2,
“The tell us why conservatives (Republicans) always slash education funds as a money saving device.”
You are operating on another liberal myth. Just as Kay thought the other day that the August 6th PDB said anything about “using aircraft as missiles”, this fairytale about republicans “slashing” education funds has been a mainstay of liberal lore around the campfire.
Here are the facts:
At no time in the past 60 years have the republicans ever suggested spending less on education than was spent in the previous year.
No “slashing”.
Republicans have, at times, suggested limiting the rate of growth in spending. This is what liberals term as “slashing”.
Don’t you feel angry that you’ve been lied to about this subject for all these years? Why didn’t the people you were getting this fallacy from trust you enough to tell you the truth?
It probably wouldn’t have worked you up as much if they said:
“The Republicans want to raise educational spending by 3.5% and we want to raise it by 3.75%, the fate of the world depends on this!”
Just doesn’t have the same impact as: “Republicans want to slash education”.
Wouldn’t you feel better if people just told you the truth and let you make your own mind?
January 25th, 2010 at 4:17 pmjwest, you destroyed the economy willfully so you could say we couldn’t afford public education or any social programs.
Own it.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:19 pmjwest says:
Here are the facts:
At no time in the past 60 years have the republicans ever suggested spending less on education than was spent in the previous year.
No “slashing”.
Republicans have, at times, suggested limiting the rate of growth in spending. This is what liberals term as “slashing”.
Yes it is slashing education funds. When the feds stop sending money to the schools, the local school district has to make up the shortfall or slash programs. The latter is almost always chosen by voters.
The Republicans are keen on limiting the rate of growth in spending on social welfare or entitlement programs. However, they have never suggested limiting growth for our military budget. In fact, Republicans never questioned the cost of Iraq or Afghanistan. They handed Bush a blank check for these wars.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:23 pmTrue conservatives…is just a term I don’t like…same with true atheist or true Christian because that divides us. I knew a few professors that were conservatives in college and my high school PE teacher…but he was cool because you could ask any question to the guy and he would give you honest educated answers. I see the tea-baggers and the mainstream Republicans acting like racist idiots and if you truly are not a teabagger or not a racist…I suggest you start talking to people on the right that actually have morals and know what the f**k is going on in the world.
They don’t know what’s going on…a large number of them just seem like angry old dudes. What about the increase in death threats? A guy was arrested for plotting to kill the president on the January, 4th. And what’s wrong with pointing out the right decided to vote-against an anti-rape bill? And just using blind anger and violence on our enemies…means they won…if you’re flipping out and have been driven to a frothing rage by it…you loose. Terrorists do set out to kill but their main objective is to spread terror, as in the name.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:24 pmThe link to the story about the arrest of the guy.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:26 pmPags,
“………When the feds stop sending money to the schools, the local school district has to make up the shortfall………”
This is part of the lie. The “feds” never stop sending money. The money that is sent is always more than they sent the previous year.
Always more. ALWAYS MORE. NEVER LESS.
Check it out. The only way you’re going to believe it is to do the research. Try to find a year when the federal government spent less on education than in the previous year.
Hint: You won’t find one.
As far as wars go, that is just the way wars are. You don’t fight wars on a budget – they are a “blank check” sort of thing. Watch Obama. See if he tries to cut the expenses.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:32 pmjwest:
At no time in the past 60 years have the republicans ever suggested spending less on education than was spent in the previous year.
That’s a fact? Which Republicans are you talking about? You do realize that funding of schools is a local and state issue, right? No? You didn’t know that?
January 25th, 2010 at 4:39 pmBizarro,
“What about the increase in death threats?”
Boy, you’ve got to get around to some other websites once in awhile. This crazy myth about Obama receiving more death threats than other presidents was a great talking point for the left, until the head of the Secret Service testified in the hearings about the party crashers.
Watch the video from the Politico link at this website:
http://polijamblog.polijam.com/?p=11798
The video is Mark Sullivan, head of the Secret Service, testifying before congress that:
“The threats right now in the inappropriate interest that we are seeing is the same level as it has been for the previous two presidents.”
Don’t let people keep lying to you. The facts are pretty easy to find.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:41 pmGummitch,
We were discussing federal education funds, but if you want to find some state or local republican advocating spending less than they did in the previous year, I’m willing to check it out.
I seriously doubt you’ll find one, but I’ll look if you find one.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:44 pmGummitch,
I was temporarily distracted on that last comment.
The last line should read:
“I seriously doubt you’ll find one, but if you do, I’ll look at it.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:52 pmMaybe not an increase but they’re still there. And considering how much you tea-baggers seem to hate Obama doing anything or just hate him for his skin color. I mean showing up at one of a town hall with loaded fire-arms is going to far…it’s one thing for the gun owner to have his gun concealed but they were out in full force. Devin if there isn’t any increase…there definitely is more of a violent attitude towards Obama than there had been toward Bush. Like Bush…there was a lot of anger towards the president…but the left didn’t grab our guns, go full retard and we knew the meaning of “Communist” “and Fascist.”
January 25th, 2010 at 4:55 pmBizarro,
If the republicans proposed a budget that doubled funds to the school lunch program, democrats would propose to triple it, because they couldn’t allow the republicans to outshine them on what they believe is a signature issue.
And if the republicans provided an increase to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA), Think Progress would have Amanda Turkel write a story titled:
“Republicans Slash School Lunch Funding to Provide Extra Money to Gas Puppies”
Distortion is the only way liberals can keep people in the dark.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:02 pmThat’s
the republicans ever will even consider passing legislation for education reform. And Democrats aren’t that spend-happy…and so what if Democrats are willing to throw in a little more for education. If the Republicans were to snap out of their psychotic Obama hating rage…maybe we could get some shit done. And a good deed is a good deed regardless of political party…thinking otherwise is petty.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:08 pmBizarro,
You probably didn’t know that person seen on MSNBC at a Tea Party rally a few miles from where Obama was scheduled to speak who had a rifle hanging from his shoulder was black.
MSNBC cropped the picture to show only the lower part of the man’s body and the rifle.
I’m sure you’re joking about the level of violence exhibited towards Obama as opposed to Bush. The left wing crazies were out in force throughout his presidency, and they had no problem calling for all sorts of violence.
You’re right about the looks of Tea Party participants. Older, white people angry at the direction of the government. Lots of professionals, small business owners, average working people. A great cross section of taxpayers.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:11 pmjwest says:
Gummitch,
We were discussing federal education funds, but if you want to find some state or local republican advocating spending less than they did in the previous year, I’m willing to check it out.
Except you didn’t say “federal”, you said “Republican.”
I seriously doubt you’ll find one, but I’ll look if you find one.
You don’t have kids in school, do you?
This is Oregon, but in seconds you can find similar information all over the country.
Suggesting that cuts to schools are not real is either astonishingly ignorant or astonishingly dishonest. Or both.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:17 pmjwest says:
Bizarro,
You probably didn’t know that person seen on MSNBC at a Tea Party rally a few miles from where Obama was scheduled to speak who had a rifle hanging from his shoulder was black.
Bizarro probably hasn’t had his head up his butt for months, so he already knew that as one of the teabag talking points. That’s really the best you can do at refuting the racism of teabaggers, isn’t it? Because that’s the only “evidence” that keeps being repeated over and over.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:19 pmBizarro,
You keep insisting that republicans “hate” Obama.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
We think he’s a socialist. We think he is taking the country in the wrong direction, but personally, we view him like Clinton.
Clinton and Obama both seem like nice guys who would probably be a lot of fun to hang around. Does that mean we’re going to agree or support them? Hell no.
But hate? No way.
And how can you believe conservatives are racist? Just because we believe blacks are just as smart and capable as whites, and that affirmative action is an insulting, degrading, racist program designed by people who believe blacks are incapable of competing on a level playing field, you think we are ones who are racist?
Look to your liberal friends if you want to see the face of a racist.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:19 pmGummitch,
I’ve looked at the link, but I can’t find anything that says republicans wanted to reduce the amount of money a school receives to less than they received the year before.
Perhaps you can point it out.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:22 pmLink please. I know what I’ve read and seen…read several conservative forums or read Rapture Ready forums to vent and laugh at them. These people are pissed…they claim to be “TRUE CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS…” and yet you advocate violence upon our enemies as in torture…you’ve let the terrorists win your war on terror. Most of the conservatives that I’ve seen all seem afraid of their shadows.
And yes there was violence from the left during the Bush years. Did I support it? No. I remained non-violent. It makes those people look bad…why don’t you call your own political party on its shit? We critique Obama all the time…it’s fine for you to do that…I just don’t like when people act like some of your fellow trolls…racist, sexist, homophobic, and claim that they are “TRUE CHRISTIANS.”
January 25th, 2010 at 5:23 pmTime to resume real life.
If anyone cares to, we can continue this tomorrow.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:23 pmBizarro,
I think you might be confusing the Tea Party people with some other religious rally or something.
Personally, I haven’t heard or read anything that links Tea Party activists with any religious beliefs.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:26 pmjwest says:
Gummitch,
I’ve looked at the link, but I can’t find anything that says republicans wanted to reduce the amount of money a school receives to less than they received the year before.
Perhaps you can point it out.
Perhaps you can either do your own research or pay attention to your local and state news.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:32 pmI’m generalizing a bit but I’m not confusing the tea party with the religious community. A lot of the leaders are Christian (crazy religious ones) and same with a fair amount of their base. The right is pretty much known for being very religious and religion probably does influence a large number of the tea-bagger crowd. I have seen sites with so called secular tea-baggers. Personally regardless of faith or no-faith…how these people act is awful. Mindless violence should is not something of either party should be proud of.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:43 pmI think saying that Republicans LOVE Obama would be much, much further from the truth.
So your statement is foolishly expressed to start with.
January 25th, 2010 at 6:18 pmjwest says:
We were discussing federal education funds, but if you want to find some state or local republican advocating spending less than they did in the previous year, I’m willing to check it out.
I seriously doubt you’ll find one, but I’ll look if you find one.
Almost every local issue to raise taxes for schools is defeated. These issues come up because of the lack of funding from the states and federal government. The states as well as the local government authorities receive federal funds for schools. Some Republicans and teabaggers want to abolish the Department of Education which provides assistance to many poor school districts and special ed programs.
If the Republicans want to hold the line on spending then the Defense Dept is a prime candidate. The military has received funds well in excess of all the social welfare programs. That is on top of the waste of money in Iraq.
January 26th, 2010 at 12:15 amhttp://digg.com/politics/Think_Progress_ThinkFast_January_25_2010
January 26th, 2010 at 4:43 am