Bachmann’s Plan: To Deal With Debt, We Must ‘Wean Everybody’ Off Social Security, Medicare
Bachmann’s Plan: To Deal With Debt, We Must ‘Wean Everybody’ Off Social Security, Medicare
This past weekend, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) addressed the right-wing Constitutional Coalition’s annual conference in St. Louis. She had dropped out of the Tea Party Convention occurring on the same day in Nashville to make the appearance.
Speaking to a small group of conference attendees and ThinkProgress during lunch on Saturday, Bachmann outlined how the Republican Party and its 2012 nominee must address the national debt. Bachmann referenced Glenn Beck, who falsely warned about a $107 trillion in supposed “unfunded liabilities” from Social Security and Medicare. She then called for a “reorganization” of entitlements where people “already in the system” would continue to receive benefits, but “everybody else” would be weaned off:
BACHMANN: Is the country too big to fail? No, the country can fail. We can, we’re not invincible. And we’re so close now to being at that point because the thing is, as Glenn Beck said last night, it is true. The $107 trillion that he put on the board. We’re $14 trillion in debt, but that doesn’t include the unfunded massive liabilities. That’s $107 trillion, and that’s for Social Security and Medicare and all the rest. You add up all those unfunded net liabilities, and all the traps that could go wrong we’re on the hook for, and what it means is what we have to do is a reorganization of all of that, Social Security and all. We have to do it simply because we can’t let the contract remain as they are because the older people are going to lose. So, what you have to do, is keep faith with the people that are already in the system, that don’t have any other options, we have to keep faith with them. But basically what we have to do is wean everybody else off. And wean everybody off because we have to take those unfunded net liabilities off our bank sheet, we can’t do it. So we just have to be straight with people. So basically, whoever our nominee is, is going to have to have a Glenn Beck chalkboard and explain to everybody this is the way it is.
Bachmann is echoing a growing chorus in the GOP caucus. Recently, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) introduced an alternative budget plan which would privatize both Medicare and Social Security. As the Wonk Room’s Pat Garofalo has noted, the type of private Social Security accounts Ryan proposes would have cost seniors tens of thousands of dollars in the 2008-2009 market plunge. But Bachmann takes Ryan’s effort a step farther and seems to be suggesting a full repeal of the retirement safety net.
Bachmann, who has gained influence within Republican leadership circles, was a star at the event. At his speech on Friday, Glenn Beck proclaimed that Bachmann was the only person he trusted in Congress. Other accolades for Bachmann were heard throughout the conference. At one point, Heritage Foundation scholar Matt Spalding, who had been whispering in Bachmann’s ear while other panelists spoke, exclaimed, “if there’s one person who everyone at Heritage has a crush on, it’s Michele Bachmann.”
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Bachmann’s Plan: To Deal With Debt, We Must ‘Wean Everybody’ Off Social Security, Medicare
The real estate under bridges and freeway overpasses is gonna be prime for the elderly and disabled.
That’s a legacy Batshit Bachmann can get behind!
February 8th, 2010 at 1:09 pm“So basically, whoever our nominee is, is going to have to have a Glenn Beck chalkboard and explain to everybody this is the way it is.”
So you’re going to scream about socialism and cry?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:09 pmYou first, Batshit Bachmann.
An even more effective way to deal with the deficit…is to abolish all benefits (and salary) for members of Congress.
Sound insane?
Still more logical than basically telling seniors and the underprivalged to go f**ck themselves.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:09 pmI 100% support the republicans in attempting to end social security and medicare. In fact I think Sara Palin should make this a priority in her 2012 run. Nothing would sink them faster.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:09 pmWhy don’t you run on that, Michelle.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:09 pmAnd the blue haired teabaggers loved her during the summer. What do you think now, suckers?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:10 pmEpic
Fail.
BatshyteShelly.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:11 pmHow do the elderly teabaggers feel about Batshit’s government hands on their Medicare?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:13 pmSpeaking of underfunded liabilities… Where’s all the money the Republicans ‘borrowed’ from the SS trust fund from 2001 – 2009? Heh Shells?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:13 pmNow who is really trying to kill grandma?
RIP
February 8th, 2010 at 1:14 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
If the Democrats don’t jump on this as an example of the right wing nut jobs who speak for the Repunlican party then they need to have THEIR heads examined.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:15 pmTired Of Fighting (Sponsored Byyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy MENNAN!) says:
Now who is really trying to kill grandma?
–
February 8th, 2010 at 1:16 pmThey want to scare her with the “death panel” lies, rob her blind and then cut off their life-line. Sick.
PALIN/BACHMANN 2012!!! ZOMG PEOPLE!
February 8th, 2010 at 1:17 pm(Warning: rhetorical questions follow)
Where did we go so wrong as a country? How did we become so devoid of compassion and distrustful of government that members of Congress want to abolish the social saftey net that’s kept millions of people from dying in anguish and poverty?
Even the most hardened conservatives in the UK wouldn’t dream of eliminating the NHS, a fully socialized system of healthcare. We propose a public health insurance option and the fanatics on the right call progressives the second coming of Hitler or Stalin or Mao.
Dude. What happened to my country?
(Rhetorical questions over. We’ve been in a downhill slide since Watergate, with the Reagan takeover creating a new wave of braindead conservatives seething with hatered for their own inadequacies, blaming the government and the gays and the immigrants because they’re struggling. We finally get a President who wants to treat us as adults, and we have elected members of Congress fomenting revolution. Sad, sad times)
February 8th, 2010 at 1:17 pmZooey (sponsored by Planned Parenthood) says:
How do the elderly teabaggers feel about Batshit’s government hands on their Medicare?
They already forgot Zooey.
RIP
February 8th, 2010 at 1:18 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
Bahcmann doesnt get her numbers for the governmentshe works for but gets her numbers from Beck-FOX who falsely inflates numbers at his 912-TEA partiers protests?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:18 pmAnf then Beck goes on to say Bachmann, running around with bulbuous numbers from Beck, only trusts Bachmann? Gimme a break.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:19 pmBalance the budget by stacking the dead elderly like cordwood.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:20 pmReefdancer123 says:
And if the Dems DON’T use this in the upcoming elections…
BTW, noting about the $780BB or so in the new budget for the military, Shelley?
Yer okay w/ THAT bit of insanity?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:20 pmMichelle Bachmann wants to kill your grandparents!
February 8th, 2010 at 1:21 pm…what a stupid phuck she is…
I’m sick of these simple (minded) little zingers…she and Palinize are in the same rubber raft.
Just a reminder Ms. BatSh*tCrazyLady,
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
p.s…brighten your mood and get reminded how stupid St. Sarah the Loon really is,
http://www.palinaspresident.us/
February 8th, 2010 at 1:21 pmTwo words for ya: Soylent Green…
February 8th, 2010 at 1:21 pmIs the country too big to fail? No, the country can fail. We can, we’re not invincible.
So you ARE ADMITTING that the Corporations DO OWN our Government and our souls? AIG was too big to fail. citibank is too big to fail, etc.
BatShitShelly strikes again. Keep putting Beck on that pedestal, too, idiot. You two will sink like stones.
I can only hope now that EVERY person over the age of 65 years old now finally sees that they’ve been suckered by a buffoon, a dimwit and snake-oil saleswoman.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:22 pm.
Wasn’t Ms. Bachmann campaigning on the rhetoric of unplugging grandma from life support and “DEATH PANELS”…?
… Well, take away grandma’s Social Security and Medicare and low and behold, Ms. Bachmann essentially has unplugged her.
.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:22 pmCorn Subsidies in United States totaled $56.2 billion from 1995-2006.
How about that Shelly? We are subsidizing corn? Monsanto patented corn?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:23 pmI thought every citizen is already “in the system”.
Is she going to have cut-off birth year for all government benefits ?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:23 pmShe’s back! Crazy Michelle with her ‘weaning’ the elderly and sick off those EVIL Socialists programs that millions benefit from. The same Crazy Michelle who got money from the EVIL government for her properties. The same Crazy Michelle who gets excellant Health Care and benefits because she is a member of Congress. If this broad wins another term, the people of her district need to get mental help.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:23 pmIt’s a crying shame that teh stupid doesn’t literally burn…Michelle Bachmann would be a walking torch right now.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:24 pmFrankly, I am sick of hearing that every problem in this
February 8th, 2010 at 1:24 pmcountry is because of the working person. Americans have become a nation of idiots. This country was founded for and by working people. They are not the problem. The problems lies with the corporations and corporate whore politicians that are raping this country.
It just amazes me how stupid and blind people can be.
Republicans give me such a headache. They spend a year criticizing the Democrats for trying to cut waste from Medicare, decrying it as an attempt to gut the program. And then, they propose gutting the program. I’m surprised Michelle Bachmann doesn’t have whiplash.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:26 pmIsnt a Beck chalkboard like a teleprompter? A big old crib sheet?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:26 pmWe can’t save any money by ending corporate welfare or farm subsidies (the other corp welfare)? That’s a weird place to start, Soc Sec.
We’d save money by Congress taking a pay cut, too. Let’s get Congress to vote for that. How will that go?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:27 pmThe people of this country who support the repugs have to wean themselves off of the stupidity of the rightwing.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:28 pmAnother thing, sarah palin Palm this. In todays NY daily news Mike Lupica wrote an excellent piece about palin.
If you can I suggest you check it out.
Where do these SOBs come from?Oh ya pat robertson U.How christen!
February 8th, 2010 at 1:31 pm.
There is not a tin foil hat big enough for that dame.
.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:31 pmConcur! Want to save some dough? Every Public Servant of the USA now gets an income of ZERO. You get a stipend for a ham sandwich lunch, though.
How did Public Servant turn into Screwing the Public?
What is it with these people hating SS and MediCare so much?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:32 pmFuzzy Thinking says:
Noooo problemo, I got mine, the rest of you? You’re on your own!
And that, folks, is right-wing thinking in a nutshell.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:33 pmI think maybe Michelle maybe a little jealous of Palin’s appearance at the ‘Tea-Bag’ Party. Maybe she wants attention. Telling old folks that she will take away programs that benefits them is a tad stupid, don’t you think?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:34 pmHelp….she is trying to kill old people. If her parents are alive, she can start by weaning them both off Medicare and Social Security or is that against the law? Elder abuse?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:34 pmChrome Child says
What is it with these people hating SS and MediCare so much?
Because this is the last little drop of blood that the people still have that Wall Street cant get to.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:35 pmLet’s first wean the war profiteers of their high overhead, which sucks more $ from the government than any other area. Then we will wean the corporations off their 30 years of tax breaks. Then we will wean the top 2% of earners of their tax breaks. then we will wean those who sit by the pool collecting there capitol gains off their low taxes.
Then we can reassess our financial situation as see who we next have to wean off the government…
February 8th, 2010 at 1:35 pmSo, what is her plan to wean the USA off the unfunded military conflicts and budget devouring pentagon spending machine?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:36 pmNo she’s not threatening to kill our parents, she’s threatening to kill us. They know old people, like the teabaggers, are going to vote and have nothing but time to go to meetings and shout. What she’s counting on is weaning those of us that have been working for the last 40 year and haven’t got sh#t back from the idea that we ever will.
Medicare pays for health care 30% below cost knowing that all of us who have insurance and jobs will pay the rest. While we are swamped with insurance costs or jobs where no raises have shown up for decades to cover those costs the elderly keep getting their cost of living increases, even this year when there was no actual inflation.
The problem will be if all of us who work or have children aren’t motivated enough in the coming elections to get out and defend ourselves against the teabaggers. Bush motivated us to get out and speak up for ourselves. The trolls come here trying to disenfranchise us all so we sit back and let the teabaggers take over.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:37 pmP.D. says:
I think maybe Michelle maybe a little jealous of Palin’s appearance at the ‘Tea-Bag’ Party. Maybe she wants attention. Telling old folks that she will take away programs that benefits them is a tad stupid, don’t you think?
–
February 8th, 2010 at 1:38 pmIt is funny in a really dark way that Bachmann and the other righties seem to be advocating “death panels” after all of the BS they complained about last year. Does this count as projection or is it just another case of IOKIYAR?
Serious question here: What will happen to the elderly and disabled people once we are “weaned” off of SS & Medicare? Not everyone has children or family to help them financially or care for them when they are ill. Parents outlive their disabled children all the time. What will happen to these people?
I’d like to hear any and all serious answers to these questions.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:38 pmOh, come on. That’s not fair. Offering a ham-sandwhich subsidy. It’s biased against the Jews, Muslims, and Dennis Kuciniches of Congress.
;-)
February 8th, 2010 at 1:39 pmZooey (sponsored by Planned Parenthood) says:
Serious question here: What will happen to the elderly and disabled people once we are “weaned” off of SS & Medicare?
Two word GOP platform: go die.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:40 pmNor thick enough. For some reason she reminds me of the crazy cat-lady from The Simpsons.
MSM: “Ms. Bachmann, what do you think of the current state that the country is in?”
KrzyShelly: “EKK! BLAAH ALDFI ADOII NADFJA DFJAOIE NADFJ D ADFD DLFJALD TERROR! ALKDJ DKA ADI ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS BAA ALAD ALDKFJILAJD ALKDFJ MEDICARE ALKDFL EKEJK EKJELEK!”
February 8th, 2010 at 1:40 pmPalin/Bachmann 2012
Dim bulbs unite!
February 8th, 2010 at 1:41 pmBachmann fostered 26 children,My sister use to brag when trying to prove to me what a good chriStain she was.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:41 pmShe spouted that crap 1 time to many and finally I replied
“Christ like?”"She is taking $130,000 a year MN. tax payers”
and she asked “How?” I replied,” She gets $5000 dollars a year for fostering each child,even though some were working,” “When she,Bachmann had all 26 children in their huge mansion,and while her husband,a corporate lawyer they recieved $130,000 plus tax right offs,”How Christen.
LOL – Touche. Fine, then smoked Turkey for those posers.
Smoked-Jive-Turkey.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:42 pmYeah, that’ll do it, for sure.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:42 pmBatshit Bachmann is insane.
Let’s get a roundup of good, loyal TeaBaggers and present them with this:
1. NO more Social Security payments. You have no income. Period.
2. NO more Medicare. You now have NO medical coverage. Period.
Answers? Hands? I’m looking for that loyalty!
…stupid…
From Urban Dictionary.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:42 pmhttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabagger
1. teabagger:
1) one who carries large bags of packaged tea for shipment.
2) a man that squats on top of a womens face and lowers his genitals into her mouth during sex, known as “teabagging”.
3) one who has a job or talent that is low in social status.
4) a person who is unaware that they have said or done something foolish, childlike, noobish, lame, or inconvenient.
49 Chrome Child (Sponsored by Hudsucker Industries®) says:
MSM: “Ms. Bachmann…
KrzyShelly: “EKK! BLAAH ALDFI ADOII NADFJA DFJAOIE NADFJ D ADFD DLFJALD TERROR! ALKDJ DKA ADI ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS BAA ALAD ALDKFJILAJD ALKDFJ MEDICARE ALKDFL EKEJK EKJELEK!”
ROFLMAO!
February 8th, 2010 at 1:44 pmAnother rare “vote up” for the troll.
We shouldn’t deny others the chance to see a regressive flaunting it’s signature quality: undeniable greed.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:47 pm“Bachmann referenced Glenn Beck, who falsely warned about a $107 trillion in supposed “unfunded liabilities” from Social Security and Medicare.”
Speaking of “unfunded liabilities”…wasn’t that what Bush and Company did with their “war” budget? Wasn’t it done outside and off the budget?
I then believe that Prez O is at least trying to make sure that those outrageous costs are included in the actual budget.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
February 8th, 2010 at 1:48 pmBachmann’s Plan: To Deal With Debt, We Must ‘Wean Everybody’ Off Social Security, Medicare
WTF? No, crazy Shelly. To deal with the debt, we must wean everybody off voting for irresponsible, spendthrift, borrow and spend conservatives. You know, morons like you.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:49 pmBachmann wants us to trust Wall Street with our retirement money at the same time Republicans are fighting restrictions of the banks and financial services industry. What a joke. Wall Street is salivating at the thought of billions pouring through their hands if Social Security is abolished. It ain’t gonna happen.
There are a lot of unfunded liabilities in Social Security because the last President turned budget surpluses into a huge debt with a war funded by Social Security funds. Now that the government has to pay those IOU’s the Republicans want to abolish the program. What a surprise. If SS goes then so should government pensions. Let the people in government be on the same footing as private industry with a 401 K instead of a pension. See how far that goes in Congress.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:56 pmZooey (sponsored by Planned Parenthood) says:
Serious question here: What will happen to the elderly and disabled people once we are “weaned” off of SS & Medicare? Not everyone has children or family to help them financially or care for them when they are ill. Parents outlive their disabled children all the time. What will happen to these people?
I’d like to hear any and all serious answers to these questions.
–
I can imagine that there are plenty of elderly people who wouldn’t be able to afford live-saving surgery and preventive tests like X-ray’s and pathology tests if they were to be “weaned” off Medicare. I can imagine those in critical condition and those without family to support them would be shit out of luck to put it bluntly because medicare covers a large number of surgical and therapeutic procedures that could save their lives…without the coverage they would be doomed.
And imagine being elderly and being cut off from social security. I’ve heard stories about elderly people using that money to buy essential items such as food. According to the SS quick calculator…on my current salary I’d make $944 at age 62, $1,483 at age 66 and $2,320 at age 70. Not a lot of money when you consider that if Medicare is cut off…you’re stuck with higher medical bills, med payments…the list goes on.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:56 pmWean the country from its idiotic addiction to all things military instead. Invest the savings in people.
Democratic socialism, not American-style corporate fascism.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:58 pmYou know what’s really scarey about this statement? Last summer and fall all the elderly ppl following these clowns carrying signs that read “Keep the govt away from my healthcare” will probably listen to her. So much for death panels, let’s get rid of medicare and Social Security, problem solved. I wonder how long it will take for this statement to gain real traction and be all over the news as fact instead of real reform!? My guess, less than a week!
February 8th, 2010 at 2:01 pmWelfare keeps people out of prison. Without it we’d need to be building more prisons and Paying more guards. It would end up costing us more. Bachmann is factually wrong about the savings coming from this.
IF she REALLY cared about saving money she would be concerned with welfare fraud. She is not, therefore she really doesn’t care about anything other than political gain.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:03 pmsorry for the OT spam here.. but I feel a patriotic duty to spread the word.
The Truth is authority – authority isn’t Truth.
A small collection of damning evidence for the official 9/11 story.
1. Larry Silverstein – acquired a 99 year lease on the WTC buildings 6 weeks previous to the attacks. From then on heavy construction work took place in the towers. During the weeks before 9/11 there were power-downs of sections of the towers. On the days before 9/11 several tenants noticed large quantities of white dust in their offices. On the last few days before 9/11, explosives-sniffing dogs were ordered off the premises. – the recording for PBS with Silverstein discussing the decision to ‘pull’ building #7 – Larry Silverstein tried to get double the insurance for wtc buildings 1 and 2 by claiming they were two seperate attacks. Larry Silverstein’s insurance policy covered ‘terrorist attacks’.
The NY Port Authority, long-time owner of the WTC complex, was losing money on the towers. The rent was so high that tenants were leaving, there were a lot of vacancies, while operation and maintenance of the towers was very expensive. The fire-proofing foam that covered the steel contained asbestos. It had to be replaced which would cost about a billion dollars.
In February of 2002 Silverstein Properties won $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers to rebuild on the site of WTC 7. Silverstein Properties’ estimated investment in WTC 7 was $386 million
witnesses to the countdown before collapse of WTC 7.
also Bush speaking of ‘explosives’ in the buildings??
2. Donald Rumsfeld –
his 2 slips of the tongue –
first mentioning the plane ‘we shot down’ (flight 93)
2nd he mentions a missile strike in an interview with Parade magazine on 0ct.12, 2001
Rumsfeld – ‘Here we’re talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filled with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center”
3. Project for a New American Century -‘Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century
September 2000 – in this report (published a year before 9/11) it suggests to rebuild America it would be beneficial to fight and decisively win multiple simultaneous major theatre wars -
‘Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new pearl harbor.’
17 of the 19 members of New American Century were part of the Bush administration – including Jeb Bush – a member of the board of Securacom, the group in charge of the world trade center security.
4. Jet Fuel Cannot Melt Aluminum or Steel – The claim that a Plane and aluminum have melted before is false. Air France flight 358 didn’t melt after being “Sparked only by friction…”
Air France flight 358 overshot the runway in bad weather, crashed & the remaining jet fuel caught fire.
The plane had old style high-pressure pure oxygen tanks. One for each person. The jet fuel cooked them and eventually, each one exploded in turn. This series of explosions ripped the roof open. It’s impossible for Jet fuel to melt metal. That’s why the wings are untouched and why the engines don’t melt during flight.
5. 17 Eye witnesses saw a plane fly towards the pentagon that day – but they unanimously agree that it did not follow the flight path of the ‘official story’ – also 2 witnesses claim they saw a commercial jet ‘fly away’ from the pentagon after the explosion. In the video ‘National Security Alert’ most damning is the testimony of Lloyde England the cab driver who admits near the end of the video that he himself is part of the cover up, his wife is a member of the FBI.
this is only a start to a very long list.. the official story defies common sense – the airplane pilots would not succumb to hijackers armed with nothing more than box cutters. It defies the laws of physics.. if fires can cause buildings to collapse perfectly into their footprint.. I have to wonder why demolition teams aren’t adopting this new technique.
“Of course the people dont want war…that is understood. But voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. “
– Hermann Goering
for further information
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
Pilots for 9/11 Truth
February 8th, 2010 at 2:03 pmThere is no way anyone in their right mind would agree to this “weaning everybody” off Social Security. There are millions of elderly and disabled folks who need the program to get along independently. Are we supposed to dump Grandma on the street because she can no longer afford taxes on her home? And besides, Michelle Bachmann is a hypocrite to ask people to get off Social Security when her family accepts socialistic farm subsidies they DO NOT NEED to live. When is she going to have her family give back their socialistic farm subsidies? (Probably never.)
February 8th, 2010 at 2:03 pmShayne aka Cigna 44
“..the elderly keep getting their cost of living increases, even this year when there was no actual inflation”
Shayne, if you’re talking about Social Security, this is incorrect. There was no cost of living increase in 2010.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:05 pmAnd besides America we need more money to fund more wars! dammit!!!!!!! Talk about needing to take back America, these guys are trying to obliterate it! Thank you Heritage Foundation for once again using your “think tank” to show how courageous and forthcoming you are when it comes to the citizens and the future of this Country.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:06 pmI know Crazy Bachmannn’s foot-in-mouth moment has drawn her some negative attention in her zeal for stripping American’s of Social Security and Medicare benefits. Let’s remember hough that she is far from alone. Dick Armey, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Sarah Palin etal are all in the same boat…the SS Barry Goldwater. They all cry about big bad Government while they ALL rely on it for their very own financial existence. They are all (and also the majority of “fiscal conservatives”) pro “flat tax” corporate-@sslickers. They all would love to see Medicare and SS a thing of the past…not because they are not effective(they are)…not because they are bad for America(ask ANY reipient)…not because they are in financial trouble (this can be fixed legislatively)…but because they are Democratic initiatives. They want to kill these benefits precisely BECAUSE they are effective. I know it’s a twited perspective but Republicans live in a universe of twisted reality.
The Republican Party stands for protecting the wealthy and corporations from our laws and will of the our People. They would privitize their own jobs if they could find a way to still get paid (although having lobbyists write your legislation is pretty damned close). They would happily sit back and watch Americans dying in the streets…just don’t touch corporate profits. If Republican and Independent voters were aware of the actual stance taken by all Republicans I don’t think that the party would still be in existance. Ask a Senator or Congressman from the Right point blank how they feel about these issues. They will all waffle, hedge and try to change the subject because it is true.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:07 pmlux ~ Hi Ace!
February 8th, 2010 at 2:09 pmThere is a better solution to deal with the Debt.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:09 pmStop warmongering that’s eating up a big piece out of the US budget’s pie.
I bet Bachmann will be happy to see and vote for another war to start in the Middle East without hesitation with Iran,Syria and many others in the area under the banner of never ending ‘war on terror’.
Bachmann, who has gained influence within Republican leadership circles, was a star at the event. At his speech on Friday, Glenn Beck proclaimed that Bachmann was the only person he trusted in Congress. Other accolades for Bachmann were heard throughout the conference.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but to me that is some scary shit. If the GOP leadership is embracing the nuttiest and fringiest wing of the party, they truly have given up entirely on this country. Bachmann, Palin and Glenn Beck, for God’s sake? Really?
February 8th, 2010 at 2:10 pmIt comes as no surprise that Bachmann wants to roll back every piece of progressive legislation that has passed in the last 80 years.
100 years ago this nation was constantly going through boom and bust cycles that climaxed with the Great Depression. The proposals being put forward by the likes of Ryan and Bachmann would set us up for a return of boom and bust cycles. Today we tend to call them bubbles because they have been limited to a certain segment of the economy. But make no mistake, the radical ideas coming from Ryan and Bachmann would be a complete disaster.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:11 pmPlease, please, let her campaign on this stupid idea. Maybe her district will finally wise up and vote for someone who actually has their best interests at heart.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:12 pmAaronQ of Maine says:
Welfare keeps people out of prison. Without it we’d need to be building more prisons and Paying more guards.
That is understating what would happen. The situation would be more like the French Revolution in 1789 or the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917. Both were caused by similar economic conditions which caused not only the poor to revolt, but the middle class that joined them. There is no way the military would be able to quell the riots because most of the military are people who are from the poor and middle class. They certainly aren’t going to go to bat for the rich.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:13 pmOne problem with the GOP plan, Americans have and are still paying into Social Security and the Fab 5 Justices would have to made fraud legal for the Govenment. If you knowly take a person’s money with the knowledge you wont pay them it’s fraud. As most of the baby boomers are/will soon collect Social Security let’s see how they vote about losing it. Bush tried it and all hell broke loose. In short what the GOP is saying let’s reduce the population by killing off baby boomers and seniors. Now notice how many old senior Law Makers have their stolen nest eggs and free for life health care. Next the Republicans will be offering the little green pill of death. As we listen to Republicans who are the bottom of our education brain pool this is what we get.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:14 pmEveryone needs to demand a blue collar med wage white collar
home owner/renter bail out!
Our economy is suffering from 2 main things
1) Workers employed or not have no money to create the demand
a health consumer based economy needs,going back to
Richard Nixons stagflation problem of the 70s when corporations started cutting wages for more profit and is still continueing. To Fix the problem…
Cut every family making under $150,001 a 1 time tax free stimulas check of $100,000:Cut every single person a 1 time tax free check for $75,000.
2) Because many of the Large US.Corporations are acually international and have forgein manufacturing operations
trade agreements screw all American workers because these agreements do not adjust tarifs on imports from countries
who have no child labor,workers rights,union wages,health care,clean water,clean air ect. ect. and no fine against US corporations who send our jobs over seas…The Fix…
Scrap all trade agreements and get out of the WTO.
Find the cost,or expense to US corporations that the EPA,Workers Rights,Child Labor laws,ect.ect increases cost of production per product.Then Charge that amount as a tarif
February 8th, 2010 at 2:18 pmon every imported product that crosses our nations boarder with out predudice of who produced the product.Make it god dam expesive to re-import products that were made from the out sourcing of American Jobs!!!
Yes! Wean everyone off Social Security and Medicare (and all the rest)before the most awesome nation invented by God ever turns into the kind of post-apocalyptic Mad Max hell-scape that is the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, Italy, Denmark and Japan, all of which even as I speak are forced to barter their ass-less bondage pants for pig excrement-powered dune buggies because they have NO MUNNIES on account of being bankrupted by their social security and universal health cares!
Not-to-mention the worshiping of high speed trains!
It’s all there in the Holey Bibble, people!
February 8th, 2010 at 2:19 pmZooey (sponsored by Planned Parenthood) says:
Serious question here: What will happen to the elderly and disabled people once we are “weaned” off of SS & Medicare? Not everyone has children or family to help them financially or care for them when they are ill. Parents outlive their disabled children all the time. What will happen to these people?
I’d like to hear any and all serious answers to these questions.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
————
Bachmann, not based in reality, has no forward thinking skills. Reminds me of an 11 year old: feeling of invincibility and just learning that actions do have consequences. Oh, scrap that – Bachmann isn’t as intelligent as an 11 year old.
The vulnerable, without the safety-nets, would die prematurely, as bizzrobrain has pointed out.
Bachmann should be backing a Single Payer health care plan then the need for MediCare would be eliminated because all citizens would be covered.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:19 pmThen, again, Bachmann is …
Three-hundred year plan:
February 8th, 2010 at 2:21 pmExploit until dust runs out
Amber waves of grain
So after I’ve worked hard all my life and paid into the System (including SocialSecurity / FICA), you’re telling me that you’re going to unilaterally negate my contract for the retirement funds and healthcare ?
February 8th, 2010 at 2:22 pm…notice the lack of trolls trying to defend this indefensible position…
February 8th, 2010 at 2:27 pm…spoke too soon…
February 8th, 2010 at 2:28 pm1) Use them for medical testing.
2) Add them to pet food for their protein content.
3) Utilize them as human shields in future wars.
snark: /off
February 8th, 2010 at 2:30 pmFuzzy @81.
Don’t be such a jerk! Your implication is that my comment was a complaint. It was not – it was merely stating a fact.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:31 pmAnd that’s an OUTRAGE!! The cost of heating my pool and spa has gone up! The SS check just barely covers it now for cripe sakes.
Even the trollies have a hard time defending Bachman’s idiocy.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:31 pmBetter plan…
If you are OR have been a registered Rushpub or TeaBagger (say over the last 15-20 years), you are the first to lose your SS and Medicare.
…we start with you being first in line Fuzzballs…and how ya doi’n with that TeaBagg’n?
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging
Teabagging is a slang term for the act of a man placing his scrotum in the mouth[1] or on or around the face (including the top of the head) of another person, often in a repeated in-and-out motion as in irrumatio. The practice resembles dipping a tea bag into a cup of tea.[2][3]
February 8th, 2010 at 2:31 pmmore good 9/11 videos – suggested by someone else.. haven’t watched them all the way through yet – but so far they seem of high quality and the first contains a wide summary of all the evidence and may be the most professional and thorough examination to date.
9/11 connect the dots
Zero (by a Nobel Prize winner)
February 8th, 2010 at 2:32 pmSoapBox says:
I noticed that the trolls have been conspicuous by their absence all day.
*wink*
February 8th, 2010 at 2:32 pm) Utilize them as human shields in future wars.
Reggie, the motorized wheelchair division?
ChairBorne!
February 8th, 2010 at 2:34 pmSo, what you have to do, is keep faith with the people that are already in the system, that don’t have any other options, we have to keep faith with them. But basically what we have to do is wean everybody else off.
Anyone who pays in, is already “in the system,” so how do you differentiate? A cut-off age? Do those folks who are below the cut-off point get their SSI contributions refunded to them?
It’s just barking idiocy, to even consider it.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:35 pmFebruary 8th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Hey Fuzzy, this isn’t very professional, but you have had it coming.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:37 pmSomeday you may have to live with a disability.
Then you can spout all the sht you and you other brainless and souless assholls want.
Just don’t expect much understanding.
I for one would tell you to kiss my arse, and eat the karma that may be coming your way.
Oh as Debs would say, you are a punk and a moron.
tony and lido
92.
Damn. Forgot to close the tags.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:37 pmOr,as Debs would say.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:38 pmand a correction to post #64.. strike ‘Jeb Bush’ and replace with ‘Marvin Bush..’
I get them confused.. Jeb Bush on the other hand was the Governor of Florida during the recount that allowed Dubya to win over Al Gore.. whatever – they’re all crooks.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:39 pmebbAndflow says:
Then, again, Bachmann is …
–
February 8th, 2010 at 2:40 pmCrazy. Their hatred of the government (except for when they are in charge) is getting dangerous if this is the kind of ideas they are pushing. And yes they have ideas…too bad a fair number of them come with a high body count.
What happens to people AFTER they are weaned off Social Security and Medicare? That would mean people living in the streets OR living with their children and spending their children’s inheritance on medical bills.
Bachmann’s opponent can scare the voters to NOT vote for her simply by telling them that Bachmann wants to dismantle Social Security and Medicare.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:41 pmReggie, sponsored by Brawndo ™ says:
I noticed that the trolls have been conspicuous by their absence all day.
BOY…we would have used a lot of support last night though…take a look at the post yesterday that got almost 850 comments…that was a fight. Dumb and Dumber of the Trolls were in that one…what can I say but,
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
February 8th, 2010 at 2:42 pm:-))
Here’s hoping that Bachmann will dismantle the Government pension and benefits when she is ready to retire. Oh, that’s right. She is NOT going to give up her benefits. No wonder her and Palin are such bud’s.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:43 pmShorter Shelly:
February 8th, 2010 at 2:44 pmOpen mouth-Insert foot.
Maybe Lido and I could get a job in the CIA as spies. No one would expect it.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:45 pmtony and lido
BACHMANN: Is the country too big to fail? No, the country can fail. We can, we’re not invincible.
Now that just warms the cockles of every red blooded American’s heart. A brilliant appeal to our can do spirit.
BTW Shelly, make sure you keep telling everyone how you and your insane cohorts are working diligently to make this happen.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:45 pmBACHMANN: Is the country too big to fail? No, the country can fail.
…and stick with the Republicans and it will.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:47 pmWheres my refund with interest?
Thats what people are gonna say. How is the govt to pay that back Shelly?
I, myself, have paid social security for decades and not got anything for it.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:51 pmWouldn’t this be, in effect, socialism? We have been paying Medicare and SS tax for decades. We get dropped, who gets our money?
February 8th, 2010 at 2:52 pmThe middle class, the working class, and the poor are paying all the taxes and fighting all the wars while the millionaires, billionaires, and trillionaires receive all the benefits.
Maybe it’s time for a “French Revolution” in America and I want to be the one who chops off Bernard Madoff’s head.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:53 pmWe must stop electing these right-wing, warmogering, corporate toe-sucking Christian conservatives to political office. They are oblivious to the state of the nation.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:55 pmWhat Bachman is proposing is a massive retroactive tax increase on those in their 50s, 40s and late 30s. The money that you’ve been paying in to Social Security all you working lives and thought you would see again after you retire will, under Bachman’s proposal, becomes just another tax that you paid into the general fund and got spent along with everything else. Even if this “weaning” she speaks of is done over decades, you will never get the full benefit of that money. You will, at the very least, have loaned Uncle Sam your money at a fraction of the return you might have gotten by investing it wisely. It would, retroactively, be another massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to corporations who benefit the most from government handouts.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:55 pmBACHMANN: Is the country too big to fail? No, the country can fail.
Her defeatism is a slap in the face of all Americans.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:55 pmWhere is the voice of reason in the Republican party? After eight years of Bush and Cheney and years of an unfettered Republican congress, we have an environment that has fostered fear in the US population that has given certain groups a wedge through which to politicize their Hatred agendas. This eliti wealthy class wants to create a dualistic society Similar to that of HAITI, where there are the very wealthy and the very poor. We see it in the Bush Tax Cuts that have exacerbated that gulf and the continuing efforts of those who have greatly benefited from those policies to continue them.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:56 pmBachman and her retarded twin, Sarah Palin abuse the ignorant fundamentalist base of the GOP to push this genda with nonsensical proposals that if anything hurt the TEA BAGGERS that she incites. If they had a brain in their heads, they would see right through their rhetoric, but alas, they do not.
And can we put to rest the canard about the richest one percent paying over fifty per cent of taxes? When the SSI funds go to pay general operating expenses, it simply a lie to say the richest pay the most. They demonstrably do NOT!
February 8th, 2010 at 2:58 pmbarfly,
February 8th, 2010 at 3:00 pmEven worse is when they spread these BS lies about the middle class being lazy. F**k them…if you watch any of those lifestyles of the rich shows…they’re full of crap. Bunch of people who were born with silver spoons in their mouths and have never worked a day in their lives.
And to add this little scenario…
Let’s say they just pick a future but close year, you decide, to completely cut off withdrawning the SS and Medicare monies from your paycheck (that is IF you have a paycheck…and that is a whole ‘nother case).
Now, lets say…that SS is a $100 deduction and the Medicare is a $40 deduction, per check. Also, behind the scenes your employer has to MATCH those amounts (and they do…up to, something now like $80,000 in gross earnings per year…after that point, employers do not need to match those amounts)…so, going into SS for you now is $200 and going into Medicare for you now is $80 per paycheck.
Cut off time!
Now, I am gonna just guess that if most are getting an additional $140 per paycheck (and you NO longer get the employer match)…that you are going to blow it on cheap junk and booze! Oh, to throw this in, it would be a BOON to business; money that they then can use to BUY the candidate of their choice! Thanks Shelly!
Now comes older age…retirement…you get fired because you are old (and the SCOTUS is certainly NOT going to stand up for you)…
YOU GOT NOTHING!
Explain that Shelly.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:03 pmOpps…forgot for Fuzzballs…
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
February 8th, 2010 at 3:04 pmInteresting article about the confusion in the American expectations of government
http://www.slate.com/id/2243797/
February 8th, 2010 at 3:05 pmLet’s not do away with Congress’s salary entirely. How about we just lower it the what a member of the Texas State Legislature earns. $7,200 a year!
February 8th, 2010 at 3:10 pmjohnny dol1ar – Billdo Assistant Minister of Propaganda says:
Bat sht crazy taking talking points from the sht flinging Baboon?
What’s next? The two freaks will be slitting their wrists on the Fox gNOpig Propaganda Network?
Now, I don’t usually watch FauxSnooze, but…..
February 8th, 2010 at 3:10 pm117 humbug72 says:
Interesting article about the confusion in the American expectations of government
http://www.slate.com/id/2243797/
Yes, yes, yes…part of my Soap Box!
The masses are getting dumber by the day…and brainwashed by the likes of Limpdong and FauxNoise.
We say wake up…but it’s tough to get those that have been brainwashed (ask McCain!) to snap out of it!
…the old movie with, Charles Bronson, where Americans had been brainwashed as terrorists; a simple verbal trigger made them go blow things up and then commit suicide!
Brainwash’n is creepy stuff!
February 8th, 2010 at 3:13 pmShelly, if you are so hungry for attention how about just dressing up in aluminum foil (amount used and placement at your discretion) and chugging goldfish on the Capitol steps? Or take up juggling chainsaws? The rest of us are getting tired of dealing with your insanity.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:15 pmAnd the really sad part is that her constituents, those who vote for her, will never here her extremist views from the local press/media. The worthless pups are afraid of her and what the screeching fundies she commands can do to their ratings/circulation.
They aren’t afraid of GOP lawmakers and delegates. They are downright terrified of the godsmakced horde of evangelicals she commands. So, predictably, local sources of “news” will run stories this week about her outrage over being “attacked by the liberal media” while they staunchly refuse to simply report Crazy Shelly’s (InsaneR-Mn.) violent, divisive, bat scat, treasonous, ravings.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:16 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
bachman exhibits her limited understanding of what makes an economy work.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:16 pmOh, oh…the movie was Telefon (1977).
February 8th, 2010 at 3:18 pmjwest says:
WELL look what the trash truck just dumped off!
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
February 8th, 2010 at 3:19 pmhumbug @# 117
great article. I am struck with the last paragraph
Our inability to address long-term challenges makes a strong case that the United States now faces an era of historical decline. Our reluctance to recognize economic choices also portends negative effects for the rest of the world. To change this story line, we need to stop blaming the rascals we elect to office and start looking to ourselves.
We want more stuff, but don’t want to pay for it.
We want to ‘help out’ in Iraq and Afghanistan and haven’t a clueless clue about the insane cost of supporting our privatized military in the field.
We will become a third rate nation of debtors if we don’t shut down the wars and don’t get our manufacturing base back into gear with green technology R&D & Jobs.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:20 pmI recently scored “extremely progressive” on the CAP progressive quiz, and I think Bachmann is the definition of nut job, but I actually agree with some of what she is saying in regards to Social Security. It is clear to me that she doesn’t want to cut off SS for people who are already collecting (”keep faith with the people that are already in the system”), or she may want to and doesn’t believe it is politically feasable, so notions of throwing grandma out on the street are overblown. And my understanding of wean is a slow removal, not stopping cold turkey. But while she obviously sees an end to SS, I could see progressive accumulated wealth qualifiers (you have a certain net wealth you only receive x% of your forecast retirement benefits and at a certain net wealth they cut out) and pushing the age limit back to 70. I’m 35 and believe, we should definitely be looking at these things for people who are 20 years or more from retirement.
I do not believe SS should be America’s retirement plan. Most American’s have the wrong view of SS. They believe, and probably because the government sells it this way, that they are paying into an account. B*lls**t! It is an income redistribution program. It takes money from those who have it, the working, and gives it to those who don’t, the retired. I have no problem with this idea at all, when SS was inacted something like 70% of seniors lived in poverty. This is also why I have a problem with the conservative idea of government retirment savings accounts – stupid, stupid, stupid – that is what IRAs are for. Instead of creating a mandated alternative, educate and reward for using for people below a certain income level.
In terms of Medicare, let’s just get a single payer system for everyone and Medicare goes away.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:20 pmHow are there really still morons out there that support the idea of privatized Social Security and Medicare after the multiple instances of catastrophic stock market crash in recent history?
Better yet – how are these people actually this unbelievably stupid?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:21 pmjwest, don’t you ever get tired of being both a corporate shill and a blithering idiot?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:21 pm…here is Shelly’s clinic…in case Fuzzballs or jwest need some mental counseling…or brainwashing.
http://www.bachmanncounseling.com/
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
February 8th, 2010 at 3:21 pmNo she’s not and you’re an idiot.
You could do away with all the shit she mentioned and if you run the economy the way the republicans did, it’s still going in the ditch.
You could eliminate all the successful social progams but where would the republicans steal from?
You talk about other people’s money like it’s not ours too jackass.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:23 pmMaybe Bachman is planning on teaming up with the Wasilla Witch to shoot the recipients of Medicare and Social Security from an airplane like wolves?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:23 pmConservatives/neoliberal economists say they value freedom, but what they want feudalism – the triumph of property over citizenship.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:23 pm129 snowcker says:
I recently scored “extremely progressive” on…
I will give you points…and if I didn’t need to take care of something right now…I would like to discuss this.
I do believe that you have serious points (despite my normal snarky posts). I’ll look for your future thoughts…
February 8th, 2010 at 3:25 pmopps…post 128 instead of 129. My bad…
February 8th, 2010 at 3:26 pmRUCerious, I think the rest of the world is beginning to like the idea of a world without American Exceptionalism. The only ones who still cling to the fantasy are the R/baggers and we know wht a tight grip they have on reality.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:27 pmhas batshit crazy shelly “weened” herself off of her government run, socialised insurance yet? if not, she needs to STFU
February 8th, 2010 at 3:28 pmi agree. please put this in the republican party platform. lets get behind bachmann and give her all the support she needs. its about time a major political party started listening to the expertise of glenn beck.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:28 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Fred ♪♫♪ says: You could eliminate all the successful social progams but where would the republicans steal from?
Oooooo, that one left a mark. If Social Security is sooooo bad, why are the repiggies always trying to get their hands on it?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:30 pm“Oooooo, that one left a mark. If Social Security is sooooo bad, why are the repiggies always trying to get their hands on it?”
and i surely must have missed the press conference when nancy reagan and george and babs bush said “thanks but, no thanks” to their check.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:32 pmjwest,
February 8th, 2010 at 3:32 pmIf you’re going to go into a racist tirade you can just piss off.
Couple of things here. First, none of us ever thought it should be our primary retirement plan. It’s not called a safety net for nothing you know.
It’s for those occations when the bottom falls out and we lose all the money in our alternate retirment plan or the economy gets so bad that we have to spend it to survive.
This scenario has played out just like that in recent years.
Second, it may not be an account but that doesn’t make it an income redistribution program either.
It’s a trust and no one is getting something for nothing and if republicans leave it alone it is more than solvent over the years with minimal increases of contributions.
Which would be normal and expected in a growing economy. Unfortunately……..thanks to republicans….it’s been delayed.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:33 pmThe only, and I mean ONLY, reason she didn’t propose the instant end of SS and Medicare is that even she knows she would lose every single vote from senior citizens. Mark my words. The audience she is really talking to are the young anarchist skinheads of the teabagger movement. She is truly committed to getting the vote of the stupidest 20% of the American electorate, like our stupid pet trolls, but she won’t intentionally piss off the old folks.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:33 pmWhy do corporate shills insist that their master’s make money from using other people’s money? Are they too lazy to go out and actually work for a living?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:33 pmHoodathunk(sponsored by Scroomall Health Corp) says:
Why do corporate shills insist that their master’s make money from using other people’s money? Are they too lazy to go out and actually work for a living?
–
February 8th, 2010 at 3:36 pmThose glasses of expensive Chardonnay (which we the working class essentially paid for) aren’t going to drink themselves.
yeah sure this will go over well with elderly republican voters.
“get back to work you lazy ass retirees! If you were a real republican you’d have scammed your retirement fortune off wall street by now!”
I think I find superbowl commercials less humerous and more truthful than this particular legislator =\
February 8th, 2010 at 3:37 pmjwest:
During your career as an odomite troll, approximately how many sock-puppets have you used at Think Progress?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:37 pmThe Outstanding Public Debt as of 08 Feb 2010 at 08:33:42 PM GMT is:
$12,361,723,983,750.16 or $12.36 billion
Where does Crazy Shelly get $14 billion?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:38 pmjwest says:
As always, Bachmann is right.
If jwest had any credibility at all, which he obviously doesn’t, it would have all disappeared down the crapper with that simple sentence.
A small selection of Wackomann.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:39 pmAmazing, isn’t it, how “Christians” like Shelley are always willing to take the food out of other peoples’ mouths and call that “doing the Lord’s work”…?
Amen! Thankyewjebus!
February 8th, 2010 at 3:40 pmExcept for those times when they don’t. Then you lose everything.
You miss the whole point j. Social security was never supposed to be the primary retirement. Everyone should, if they are able, make some alternative investments of some kind.
Social security is for those times when the alternative investments get stolen from us. Like now.
Lets see how Italy did. They did exactly what bush was suggesting:
Italian Pensions Sapped by Private Funds Bush Backed
Oops, there went our safety net.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:40 pmHere’s a real whacky idea. How about all those concerned banksters on Wall Street use their bonuses to pay down the public debt just because they love their country. Come on, folks, let’s see a bit of that old trickle down magic.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:40 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
BTW. Make no mistake about it. If you are not a white Protestant Evangelical? Crazy Shelly (InsaeR-Mn.) would gleefully cut your throat in your sleep if she thought she could get away with it. Plus, it sure does sound like she wants someone, who is crazy or brave enough, to assassinate the current President of the United States. If she were ever interrogated by professionals she would give up more terrorists than all the Gitmo detainees combined.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:41 pmOops! Forgot the link to her latest bit of treason.
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dhk3jptd_1gb54n3f9
February 8th, 2010 at 3:45 pmjwest,
February 8th, 2010 at 3:47 pmYou keep pushing those talking points. You’d end up killing the elderly not saving them…and I have no problem paying taxes that would help others. You want to help the African American community out…stop enforcing institutional racism and stop calling for the elimination of crucial educational and financial programs that many minorities need because they’ve been f***ed by the system. Or you can just close your eyes, plug your ears and GTFO and go back to Stormfront.
Show of hands time. How many people had some sort of private retirement plan gutted by the recent economic debacle?
How many of you are glad that Social Security is still solvent to give you at least a minimum back up?
Finally, how many agree that jwest is a shill lacking both intelligence and humanity?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:47 pm“Even a small account under the privatization system would be a few hundred thousand dollars by the time a low-income black male”
unless the stock market tanks like it has been for the p[ast two years. then we have a bunch of starving old folks. right, tard? you skidmarks always forget to include what happens when the stock market goes down.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:49 pmDoes she understand these people VOTE for her??
February 8th, 2010 at 3:50 pmWe need a holodeck where we can model the country as envisioned by these nuts. Then we’ll lock them in there.
Dead and dying clogging the sidewalks to finance wars. What lovely people.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:51 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Social Security is a scheme by democrats to rob the money black (and white) males have paid in to a fictitious account over a lifetime of work in order to pay meager benefits to old white women.
A truly warped view. But then, conservatives hate social security – until they reach retirement age.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:52 pmHoodathunk(sponsored by Scroomall Health Corp) says:
“Show of hands time. How many people had some sort of private retirement plan gutted by the recent economic debacle?”
*Not me personally…well not really bad anyways. I’ve still got 40-50 years till I retire. My dad and my mom pretty much lost most of their 401K’s and I’m supporting them in areas such as medical related stuff like meds, checkups, etc.
“How many of you are glad that Social Security is still solvent to give you at least a minimum back up?”
*I sure am and if they cut it…tons of people are going to be screwed. Think about how much you spend on just the stuff you need every month. Now imagine having anywhere from $900-$3000 (rough estimate of about $60,000 a year earnings before retirement).
And jwest can go f**k himself.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:53 pm” Or, do think Maude in Miami deserves it more?”
what about babs in kennebunkport, does she deserve it?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:53 pmimagine that, jworst managed top offend both blacks and jews in one post!
“Judicial Watch, Inc., a conservative, non-partisan educational foundation, promotes transparency”
hey fake dr hunt. ya think they may be a little partisan?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:54 pmDon’t you people ever actually think about these things?
I think we should abolish the estate tax, and raise SSI deductions. Agree, or disagree?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:54 pmsnowcker — I scored 346/400 on the progressive quiz..
take the quiz
February 8th, 2010 at 3:54 pmWhere to begin? How about weaning off people like YOU, Michele?! No more U.S. gov’t retirement, healthcare, social security, insurance nor mailing privileges either.
But now, let’s talk about WHY this won’t work. My mother-in-law worked her tail off her whole life paying into social security but still ended up broke. She paid through the nose her federal income tax, as she had no deductions. When she was forced to quit working (her employer kept outsourcing her work until she couldn’t pay her rent). Finally she had to retire and she used her social security to pay her subsidized rent for a tiny, studio-like apartment in a poor part of town. Everything she needed (forget about wanted) came out of her monthly social security payment, which BTW was CUT back. This included her very expensive meds(A huge THANKS to big pharma). We sent her a few bucks from time to time, but she was still always broke. BUT according to Michele, we should’ve “weaned” her. Hey Michele,
February 8th, 2010 at 3:55 pmWhy don’t we just put all of the old, handicapped, disabled and mentally ill folks on an ice floe and shove them out to sea? That’s what the Inuit used to do, hey, it could work!
Judicial Watch is an organization which describes itself as “a conservative, non-partisan American educational foundation that promotes transparency, accountability and integrity in government, politics and the law.”
Yeah doc that’s hardly a neutral site.
Where the f**k were they when Bush and Cheney were tearing apart our Constitution bit by bit? Oh that’s right…”LALALALALALA…don’t see or hear a thing…LALALALALA.” Typical conservative slandering.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:56 pmYou mean us? We are thrilled that social security exists and will kick your ass if you f uck with it. Get it?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:56 pmThis sentence is pure, unadulterated idiocy.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:58 pmTo Fred at 144:
Fred, first I wouldn’t use the phrase “none of us”. According to these people (http://www.ncpssm.org/ss_senior_income/), for 28% of beneficiaries it is their only form of income. For 40.6% it is at least 90% of their income (I’d group those people in the I didn’t plan for retirement group also).
Second, this trust fund you speak of is publicly held national debt. Tell me how it will be cashed in. Seriously. The SSA took the extra money an loaned it back to the American people who are unlikely to ever pay it back again. If I take two apples from Joe the apple picker and give one to Hank the hungry retirery and tell Joe I intend to save the other one to give to him when he retires but it goes rotten while I wait for him to retire then really all I did was take an apple from Joe and give it to Hank. Income redistribution.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:01 pmjwest says:
As the system progressed, it stole money disproportionately from the poor and unhealthy to give money to the rich and healthy.
Then you should be all for a repeal of the estate tax, coupled with a gradual elimination of the cap on SSI contributions. With the wealthy for invested in SSI, you can bet they would demand an end to using SSI as the government’s piggybank.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:01 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Buty as we all know, the wealthy love the status quo, because they can invest in businesses/ contractors who are paid with SSI funds, and get what little they contribute into the fund back, as capital gains.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:03 pmFred ♪♫♪ says:
jwest says:
As the system progressed, it stole money disproportionately from the poor and unhealthy to give money to the rich and healthy.
This sentence is pure, unadulterated idiocy.
–
February 8th, 2010 at 4:04 pmLook at who typed it…they guy thinks Beck is an objective GOOD source of info and Bachmann isn’t totally off her f***ing rocker. I can’t really say anything more than that to point out that jwest probably belongs in a straight jacket and a muzzle. Maybe even one of those cargo dollies that Hannibal Lecter was on in one of the scenes in Silence of the Lambs.
You’re remarkably bright for a liberal.
And you’re refreshingly honest, for a conservative.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:05 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
jwest says:
Barfly,
The cap on SSI contributions could be eliminated completely tomorrow if left up to republicans.
They want to defund SSI. Perhaps you’re in the wrong party.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:07 pmsnowcker says:
I do not believe SS should be America’s retirement plan. Most American’s have the wrong view of SS. They believe, and probably because the government sells it this way, that they are paying into an account. B*lls**t! It is an income redistribution program. It takes money from those who have it, the working, and gives it to those who don’t, the retired. I have no problem with this idea at all, when SS was inacted something like 70% of seniors lived in poverty.
You are totally incorrect that SS is an income redistribution. SS benefits are tied into what you pay. You have pay at least a few years to collect and your benefit is tied to what your wages were. If you pay in at minimum wage levels for 10 years, your benefit is extremely low. There is no income redistribution except to the extent that people do or do not live to actuarial table values. Some people never collect while others collect more than they pay in. But in the end it is just like any retirement plan.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:08 pmjwest,
February 8th, 2010 at 4:09 pmYou do realize that the estate tax only effects people who’s estates are worth over $3.5 million and over $7 million if they happen to be a couple? Once again you fail miserably.
drhunt says:
Reggie-you’ve asked me to give further details on my assertion that BO is the most corrupt POTUS we’ve ever elected. The following is just ONE of the reasons why…
You have to be impressed at the objectivity of drhunt’s list. After all, they actually included a single Republican!
February 8th, 2010 at 4:12 pmthe cap on SSI contributions could be eliminated completely tomorrow if left up to republicans.
How do you justify this comment, knowing that republicans want the program killed? It doesn’t make sense.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:12 pmNo, it doesn’t work that way, jwest. You can ask the people who actually lost their retirement during this last crash, despite their well-diversified portfolios.
The point of Social Security isn’t to reitre on, it’s to be a safety net. It’s to prevent the elderly from starving to death in the event that their actual retirement plans don’t turn out as great as you seem to think they always do.
I’m am not suggesting that there aren’t ways in which the system can improve, but privatizing it is just begging for disaster.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:12 pmI’m proud to say I scored 340/400 on that test. :o)
~A <– extremely progressive (and damned proud of it!!)
February 8th, 2010 at 4:12 pmThe cap on SSI contributions could be eliminated completely tomorrow if left up to republicans.
Eliminating the estate tax is essential to keeping small businesses running and creating jobs.
Neither one of these statements is even remotely grounded in reality. It’s not really even worth debunking points this ludicrous.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:13 pmjwest,
You do realize that the estate tax only effects people who’s estates are worth over $3.5 million and over $7 million if they happen to be a couple? Once again you fail miserably.
It was my suggestion, to take the issue out of political hands. We all know it affects so few taxpayers, and if it were coupled with an elimination on the SSI cap, the republicans would have a hard time justifying their position, given the repeal of the cap would more than cover any revenue lost to the estate tax elimination, and do much towards making the plan solvent again.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:16 pmIt’s back to the Nineteenth Century! Coming to a Country near you soon! People living in the streets. Beggars everywhere! Clan warfare!
Note to Bachmann et al, it’s called civilization this taking care of each other. Oh, and if I have to take care of myself for ever and have no help what so ever from anyone, I’m going need a real big raise. I’m talking something in the range of six to eight figures. Pay me now or pay me later. Really.
If you want your kids educated, it’s gonna cost you and really cost you because I won’t be able to teach when I’m 90. If you want health care, it’s gonna cost you and really cost you because I won’t be able to nurse or doctor you when I’m 90 so I’ll have to figure in how much my health care and other living expenses will be twenty years from now and build that into today’s price.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:17 pmpete says:
Oops! Forgot the link to her latest bit of treason.
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dhk3jptd_1gb54n3f9
Pete, I glanced over What Bachmann wrote in that link and it just reinforces a difference I’ve noticed between the two major parties. Democrats usually think of themselves as Americans first while Republicans usually think of themselves as Republicans first.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:17 pmpags2 says:
You are totally incorrect that SS is an income redistribution. SS benefits are tied into what you pay. You have pay at least a few years to collect and your benefit is tied to what your wages were. If you pay in at minimum wage levels for 10 years, your benefit is extremely low. There is no income redistribution except to the extent that people do or do not live to actuarial table values. Some people never collect while others collect more than they pay in. But in the end it is just like any retirement plan.
I understand how benefits are determined, but retiries are only collecting money now because I am paying into the system. If everyone in America stopped earning a wage today and the US Gov generated no revenue through taxes, the SSA could not pay SS beneficiaries. True or false?
Therefore if they are taking my money today and giving it to someone else tomorrow, it is income redistribution. And I have no problem with that, as long as they are giving it to someone who needs it. If they are giving it to a 73 year old Senator who owns 5 houses and makes $174,000 in income per year, than I have a problem with it.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:18 pmI just took that test.
I scored 372.
Apparently the average American scores 209.5.
I am what one calls extremely progressive. I could have told them that. :)
February 8th, 2010 at 4:21 pmRe: celtic cynic @ 133:
PLEASE do NOT call Failin’ Palin a Witch! She opposes everything honest Paganfolks stand for.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:21 pmPaying into SS is something of a crap shoot. It is an investment that one hopes will be there if they get to 65 or become disabled. But it is an investment in America. If I pay in from age 18 to 65 and drop dead the day after my 65th birthday, I still invested in my fellow Americans. I may not reap any benefits personally but I helped make my country a better place to live for someone.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:21 pmbut retiries are only collecting money now because I am paying into the system.
Actually, they are collecting because THEY paid into the system.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:22 pmGeez, smidget, I thought I was doing good with a 360 score.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:22 pmTake the cap off S.S. and get rid of the under funded medicare part D and that will save trillions and add billions to the programs.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:23 pmIf everyone in America stopped earning a wage today and the US Gov generated no revenue through taxes, the SSA could not pay SS beneficiaries. True or false?
False. The SSI funds are invested in government bonds, which could be sold, to pay for current retirees. They wouldn’t get as much for them, but the fund could still meet present needs. Or are you also positing that there would be no new retirees entering the system, as well?
February 8th, 2010 at 4:23 pmIf everyone in America stopped earning a wage today and the US Gov generated no revenue through taxes, the SSA could not pay SS beneficiaries. True or false?
And if pigs had wings they’d be pigeons?
February 8th, 2010 at 4:24 pmIf they are giving it to a 73 year old Senator who owns 5 houses and makes $174,000 in income per year, than I have a problem with it.
That makes sense. But one can’t draw SS if they are earning income at least for a little while when they become eligible. If you were to suggest that only those of net worth (fill in the blank) and below be allowed to draw SS, then THAT really would be income distribution – everyone pays, only a few benefit. I personally have no problem with that myself, but many would.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:24 pmBarfly,
“They want to defund SSI.” “republicans want the program killed…”
Where do you come up with this stuff?
Have you heard some republican saying they want to “defund” social security? Do you actually think republicans want to “kill” social security and throw old people out in the street?
Let me take back that statement about you being bright.
Republicans want to replace a bankrupt, unfair, racist system with a shiny new system that would give people control over their retirement money and allow families to keep what their love ones worked their entire lives for.
I know that if you only read websites like this your brain turns to mush, but you should be able to understand that no republican wants to simply end social security without replacing it with something better.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:25 pmHave you heard some republican saying they want to “defund” social security? Do you actually think republicans want to “kill” social security and throw old people out in the street?
Have you forgotten what thread you are on, bonehead?
February 8th, 2010 at 4:27 pmAnnie, Smidget,
I scored 106.
Apparently, that’s not too progressive.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:27 pmGeez, smidget, I thought I was doing good with a 360 score.
I think mine was so high because I emphatically agreed or disagreed with some of the government statements, such as “Less government is always better than more government.” Well, hell no. I put 0. Because the statement is simply false. It has nothing to do with the size of the government and everything to do with the effectiveness and efficiency of the government. Most people probably ranked a statement like that somewhere in the middle.
And I’m virulently anti-military-as-a-solution-for-everything. That makes me pretty far left as far as the US goes.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:28 pmI just took the test.
I scored 314/400.
Which also makes me extremely progressive!
February 8th, 2010 at 4:28 pmWhy? He qualified for it. It’s his.
I think it’s the quality of the person that you mention (mccain) that is exposed as cheap in that example.
No one twists your arm to go down and sign up you know.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:28 pmDo you actually think republicans want to “kill” social security and throw old people out in the street?
Did you read the article at the top of this page?
Republicans want to replace a bankrupt, unfair, racist system with a shiny new system that would give people control over their retirement money and allow families to keep what their love ones worked their entire lives for.
Republicans want to take the big trust fund and push it into the stock market so it can be capital for big business, allowing CEOs to make a small (or even large) fortune off of the tax payers of the United States while providing no protection whatsoever for those tax payers in the event that those businesses do something stupid and loose all that money.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:30 pmI know that if you only read websites like this your brain turns to mush, but you should be able to understand that no republican wants to simply end social security without replacing it with something better.
And I retract my comment regarding your honesty.
They want the system privatized, meaning they want the system voluntary. For republicans hate SSI, and have tried to kill it before.
And your “something better” involves trusting the same financial institutions that went bankrupt last year.
An you question my intelligence?
Riight.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:30 pmEveryone needs to demand a blue collar low and medium wage white collar home owner/renter bail out!
Our economy is suffering from 2 main things
1) Workers employed or not have no money to create the demand
a healthy consumer based economy needs.Going back to
Richard Nixons stagflation problem of the 70s when corporations started cutting wages for more profit, this is still continueing. To Fix the problem…
Cut every family making under $150,001 a 1 time tax free stimulas check of $100,000:Cut every single person a 1 time tax free check for $75,000.
2) Because many of the Large US Corporations are acually international and have forgein manufacturing operations,
trade agreements screw all American workers because these agreements do not adjust tarifs on imports from countries
who have no child labor,workers rights,union wages,health care,clean water,clean air ect. ect.as a cost of production and no fines against US corporations who send our jobs over seas…The Fix…
Scrap all trade agreements and get out of the WTO.
Find the expense to US corporations that the EPA,Workers Rights,Child Labor laws,ect.ect as they increase cost of production here per product.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:30 pmThen Charge that amount as a tarif on every imported product that crosses our nations boarder with out predudice of who produced the product.Make it god dam expesive to re-import products that were made from the out sourced American Jobs!!!
jwest:
You still haven’t answered my question regarding how many sock-puppets you’ve used during your careers as a troll. I don’t need an exact number, you can round it off to the nearest zero.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:33 pmnowcker says:
I understand how benefits are determined, but retiries are only collecting money now because I am paying into the system. If everyone in America stopped earning a wage today and the US Gov generated no revenue through taxes, the SSA could not pay SS beneficiaries. True or false?
Therefore if they are taking my money today and giving it to someone else tomorrow, it is income redistribution. And I have no problem with that, as long as they are giving it to someone who needs it. If they are giving it to a 73 year old Senator who owns 5 houses and makes $174,000 in income per year, than I have a problem with it.
The people who are receiving SS now have paid in to SS. When you retire you will receive SS. It is irrelevant as to what money goes where in SS system. There is a phase out of SS with income. My mother gets $1700 as a widow’s pension. My father died 5 years after retiring. In essence my mother is getting money that my father paid in as well as some of her own because she paid in. She only can collect on one account and that is my father’s because it is the larger of the two. There is no income redistribution.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:34 pmBoy oh boy, this one is a geniass.
Scroll up j, all the way to the top of the page. then read it, out loud to yourself.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:34 pmBachmann’s Plan: To Deal With Debt, We Must ‘Wean Everybody’ Off Social Security, Medicare
last I knew, you had to file to get SS and Medicare benefits. I think it only fitting that all republicans and privatization proponents donate their SS and Medicare payments to charity or don’t file for benefits. Both systems would be solvent much longer if republicans lived their [pretend] values [cough].
February 8th, 2010 at 4:35 pmReggie,
I’ve never used a different name and even with your sockpuppet explanation, I can’t imagine why the average commentator would want to use one.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:35 pmjwest says:
Reggie,
I’ve never used a different name and even with your sockpuppet explanation, I can’t imagine why the average commentator would want to use one.
You’re a liar jay.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:37 pmIf social security is such a great system, why don’t government workers get in on it?
They sure do seem to like their privatized arrangement.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:39 pm….because seeing LOTS of old homeless people will be FUN!!!!
righties are evil.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:41 pmjwest says:
If social security is such a great system, why don’t government workers get in on it?
They sure do seem to like their privatized arrangement.
Even us dummies know that would take an act of congress.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:41 pmjwest says:
Have you heard some republican saying they want to “defund” social security? Do you actually think republicans want to “kill” social security and throw old people out in the street?
Yes, that’s exactly what Bachmann just advocated as many Republicans before her have as well.
Are you illiterate little retard or just delusional?
February 8th, 2010 at 4:42 pm“privatize SS” is what killed the R majority last time around,
so go4it.
dare ya.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:43 pmSo y’all believe that the money was actually saved somewhere. Without raising taxes in the future, we can fulfill the debt owed to those people who have “paid into the system.” Because that money is just waiting in a big old trust fund somewhere, right? And I’m sure everytime the Secretary of Treasury uses his debit card it rounds up and does the savings for us.
I would argue that the amount that I have “paid into the system” is gone. There is no way I will ever see that amount unless someone else behind me in line is still paying taxes.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:43 pmA pension is not necessarily a privatized arrangement such as a 401(k). Some are, some aren’t. Government workers who do not pay social security taxes do not get to draw social security because they never paid into the system. They get pensions. They don’t get the choice, because they aren’t eligible for Social Security in the first place.
So you have no clue if they’re happy with it or not. You’re just talking out of your ass.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:44 pmjwest says:
If social security is such a great system, why don’t government workers get in on it?
In 1984, a second retirement system–the Federal Employees Retirement System, or FERS–was introduced. People who began working for the Federal government in 1984 or later are covered by FERS instead of CSRS. Also, some workers who had been covered by the CSRS program chose to switch to the FERS program when it became available. Work under FERS is covered by Social Security.
jwest says:
They sure do seem to like their privatized arrangement.
LOL! ignorant much?
February 8th, 2010 at 4:45 pmSmidget,
“So you have no clue if they’re happy with it or not.”
I don’t see them marching in the streets demanding to be let into the social security system.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:47 pmFERS is a three tiered system that consists of a defined benefit plan, Social Security, and the Thrift Savings Plan.
Poor jay is as retarded and ignorant as usual. Who wouldn’t like a retirement system that “included” social security along with 401k like “most” americans experience? ;)
February 8th, 2010 at 4:48 pmSo y’all believe that the money was actually saved somewhere.
No, you just don’t seem to understand that it doesn’t matter. You pay in, you get benefits based on what you paid in. If you pay in $50 it’s probably going to go to Mr. Gray over there. When it’s time for you to draw that $50 out, it came out of Ms. Yellow’s contribution.
Without raising taxes in the future, we can fulfill the debt owed to those people who have “paid into the system.”
No, that’s not what we think, either. First, it’s time to stop robbing the fund to pay for ridiculous shit like Medicare Part D and unnecessary wars. Secondly, most of here support expanding the Social Security tax to all wages, not allowing it to cap out at just over $100,000. That is probably considered a tax increase.
Because that money is just waiting in a big old trust fund somewhere, right?
Well, it was until Bush robbed it.
There is no way I will ever see that amount unless someone else behind me in line is still paying taxes.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:48 pmYes. And? Certainly you’re not under the impression that privatizing the system changes that, are you? If no one is working and therefore no one is paying into the system, then the private accounts you have invested in the ever-beloved stock market is going to be worth a big fat zero because that is a total economic collapse. Everything functions on a viable work force.
just the bleepn facts,
I’m sorry, but you are simply far too ignorant to respond to.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:49 pmI would argue that the amount that I have “paid into the system” is gone. There is no way I will ever see that amount unless someone else behind me in line is still paying taxes.
Except you’re wrong. The money you’ve had deducted is parked in T-bills. They have borrowed on the value of those T-bills, and it will be repaid with interest. But just not as large an amount, given the current climate. But that could turn around, with a healthy economy.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:49 pmjwest says:
Smidget,
“So you have no clue if they’re happy with it or not.”
I don’t see them marching in the streets demanding to be let into the social security system.
Maybe because they already have access to it? ;)
LOL! you’re retarded jay!
February 8th, 2010 at 4:49 pmYeah, it’s worked just like that. You seem to understand.
The only glitches have been caused by republican fiscal policy.
You know, that whole not creating jobs for 8 years thing kinda screws things up for a while.
Even with the downs caused by republicans though, it has worked well for lo these many years……since the 30’s.
So well that republicans can’t keep their hands of the ss money.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:49 pmI don’t see them marching in the streets demanding to be let into the social security system.
You also don’t see people who are on social security marching in the streets demanding to put it into the stock market.
What exactly is your point? That people are capable of being happy with what they have? Good. Then leave it the hell alone.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:50 pmjwest says:
just the bleepn facts,
I’m sorry, but you are simply far too ignorant to respond to.
LOL! So are you, that’s why I’m just “ridiculing” you for your ignorance instead! LOL! ;)
February 8th, 2010 at 4:50 pmMaybe jay can chat about all of those “private retirement” funds that the US government has had to bail out over the past 20 years because they went bankrupt? ;)
February 8th, 2010 at 4:51 pmPrivatization worked so well for Chile. So well, they had to step in, and infuse the system with more tax money.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:53 pmMaybe jay can explain why the gop retards want to expose the public to the constant ERISA bailouts that “pensions” have been exposed to? While the GOP is whining about Social Security “eventually” going bankrupt, almost every major pension fund has had to be bailed out by the US government through ERISA! LOL!
The GOP is truly the party of “retards”! Explains why they like Palin! ;)
February 8th, 2010 at 4:53 pmsnowcker says:
So y’all believe that the money was actually saved somewhere. Without raising taxes in the future, we can fulfill the debt owed to those people who have “paid into the system.” Because that money is just waiting in a big old trust fund somewhere, right? And I’m sure everytime the Secretary of Treasury uses his debit card it rounds up and does the savings for us.
I would argue that the amount that I have “paid into the system” is gone. There is no way I will ever see that amount unless someone else behind me in line is still paying taxes.
You are wrong again. The money you paid will eventually be paid out to you or your widow if you live long enough and pay enough into the system. The max benefit on SS is $1980. You do the math for 12 months and it is about 24k. Out of that the Medicare premiums are deducted as well as supplemental health insurance which are approximately $125 per month. Then you have the out of pocket money for prescriptions because of the doughnut hole.
I would rather pay every week into SS and into a health fund in exchange for single payer on health. I guess that makes me a socialist but if Bernie Sanders can live with that name, then so can I. Of course, none of this would be an issue if companies paid workers fair wages and gave them fair fringe benefits. But they don’t do either very well unless you are in union.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:55 pmSocial Security is an annuity.
You know what happens when you buy an annuity from an insurance company? They enter into an agreement, based on your pay-in, to pay you a certain amount of money per month guaranteed. It’s less than you could make playing the market–you pay for the security.
The company pays this annuity out of its own corporate income–from people buying policies to the company’s investments.
Look around–there are tons of annuities available in the financial markets. people buy them all the time.
This is exactly the way SS is structured (excluding SSI which is a simple welfare program.) Social Security enrolls workers in a payroll plan to purchase an annuity. It tells you when you’ve met the minimum, and sends you a little note each year saying how much your annuity will be worth when you retire. And it uses the general resources of its organization to make sure the annuity is paid.
All the rw shrieking about theft and Marxism is, at best, simply religious fanaticism. Yes, there’s coercion–you’re forced to buy in. But the cap on contributions is in keeping with the annuity model–just as there’s a maximum payout, there’s a maximum pay-in.
Social Security is structured like a well-known investment instrument. To treat it as Marxism is just plain silly.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:56 pmYeah, one can imagine what all those Social Security recipients would be doing today if SS had been privatized and then plundered by the Bush crash. It would have made the chia pet bagger protests look even more ridiculous.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:04 pmOne way to judge a person is by the loyalty of their employees. In the brief time that Crazy Shelly has been a Congresswoman, her entire staff has overturned. She’s been through three chiefs of staff and, as I recall, four official spokespersons. Even the people she pays recognize that there’s no future in being attached to such a whack-job.
She’s pure poison and those who know her best, those who work with her daily, can’t wait to escape her shadow.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:04 pm——————————————————————————–
jwest says:
——————————————————————————–
Annie, Smidget,
I scored 106.
Apparently, that’s not too progressive.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:27 pm Vote Up | Vote Down | (-5) | Report Abuse
February 8th, 2010 at 5:09 pmNo, it shows you’re an arrogant, selfish,bigot.
Enjoy your good health now, living with a disability someday may change your selfish position.
If you and the other trolls don’t want to help your fellow citizens move to Somolia.
The trolls on TP are really clueless pigs (no insult to porcines intended.)
tony and lido
Does she want the government to keep collecting the taxes that are dedicated to those two programs and just not provide the service?
February 8th, 2010 at 5:09 pmGreat, Fred, Smidget, I agree with you, or you seem to agree with my point. Smidget, if you go back to my original post #128, you’ll see, I think privatized government accounts is stupid also and would not advocate them. Barfly, I don’t know what to tell you. Yes I believe t-bills have some real value to them, but in order for them all to be cashed in we’d have to raise taxes and shut the rest of the government down for a few years.
Yes I understand that for the last 30 years the Republicans have promoted lowering taxes and robbing the SSA. Why pay for a knew school when you can borrow the money and make your kids pay for their own d*mn school!?
I’ve only been arguing that you have to call a spade a spade. No matter how complex you want to make the system sound with accounts, the fact is I will not be able to collect unless someone behind me pays taxes to cover my benefits. If the working persons taxes pass through the governemnt to pay my benefit, than the government in real time is taking from the haves and giving to the have nots. The way they got the American people to go along with this is to create this complex structure of accounts and earned benefits. And promises of benefits. Bring understanding of the situation in line with reality instead of continuing to spin a fairy tale about how it works.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:11 pmpbeeg,
You are being way too cerebral for the teabaggers. One must always remember that these poor freaks use “Marxism” and “fascism” interchangeably. There’s really no human intellect to which one may appeal.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:12 pmMichelle must be a real big hit with the senior citizen crowd!!!! keep it up you moron.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:14 pmHey, we can eliminate the Social Security and Medicare “problems” and feed the hungry at the same time.
Two words — Soylent Green.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:15 pmsnowbound, you really are brain dead. Social Security has been around since before WWII. Yes, everybody pays in who works. Yes, it is possible that the money you pay in today may fund someone who is retired. And when you retire, there will be someone paying to fund you. And so on, ad infinitum.
The thing is, the Social Security fund has been so effective that it has been raided like a cookie jar for many years. It not only works, it works well. If it didn’t, repiggies wouldn’t be constantly trying to tap, raid or privatize it.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:17 pmHoodathunk(sponsored by Scroomall Health Corp) says:
Yeah, one can imagine what all those Social Security recipients would be doing today if SS had been privatized and then plundered by the Bush crash. It would have made the chia pet bagger protests look even more ridiculous.
Imagine the happy dance the Wall Street brokers would be doing with SS privatized. They would be handing out even bigger bonuses to themselves even if they lost billions.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:22 pmAnd what about the “previous” system referred to as CSRS that was replaced by the “tiered” FERS?
The Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) is a defined benefit, contributory retirement system. Employees share in the expense of the annuities to which they become entitled.
OOPS! That’s the same thing as “social security” except with a smaller pool of employees! LOL! ;)
Poor jay, little retard looks stupid yet again! She just never gets tired of making a fool of herself, just like her princess palin and here teabagger teleprompter! LOL! ;)
February 8th, 2010 at 5:22 pmsnowcker says:
The retirement age and caps on contributions have been raised. The SS system was supposed to be solvent until 2020. Any shortage at this time is because the government wrote IOU’s to pay for the Iraq war and now the government has to repay those IOU’s. The Republicans are full of crapola because that is what is making the SS system insolvent. Your problem is not SS but the politicians who used SS like a piggy bank. The war in Iraq is going to cost 3 trillion dollars. Clinton set out a plan to pay SS the money the government. But Bush pissed it away. Again, the insolvency is because the Republican president lied about a war and spent # trillion which was borrowed from SS. Now the IOU’s need to be paid back and the Republican want to weasel out again.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:46 pmMaybe we need to dumb it down a bit for the stupid trolls? How’s this?
February 8th, 2010 at 5:54 pmAnyone who isn’t committed to removing this phucking retard from office is supporting domestic terrorism.
The difference between the government retirement system that “jay” says is “awesome” and Social Security is the tax rate is almost double for the government plan what it is for social security! So jay just suggested that if we doubled the social security taxes everyone will be happy with social security! I agree! Great suggestion jay! ;)
February 8th, 2010 at 5:57 pmPete,
You can never dumb it down enough for the trolls.
And since when have the republicans been against domestic terrorism? I’ve never seen them condemn any of this.
February 8th, 2010 at 6:00 pmI take exception with those who would insinuate Michele Bachmann is mad as a hatter;
She’s perfectly sane, just dumb as a stump.
Like Caribou Barbie.
February 8th, 2010 at 6:34 pmNo. She’s not sane by any standard. In fact. I would say that Bible Spice is more stupid than insane while Crazy Shelly is more insane than stupid. Neither one of them should be allowed to walk the streets without a name tag and mittens pinned to their sleeves. Come to think of it, none of the people in these clips should be allowed to make their own decisions, much less decisions that affect others. The whole damned bunch need to be deprogrammed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIYbmNql6MI
February 8th, 2010 at 6:53 pmPete,
Just adding to your post: Michele Bachmann: “I Want People “Armed And Dangerous” Over Obama Tax Plan.”
She is mental ward straight jacket and muzzle crazy.
February 8th, 2010 at 7:00 pmLet Bachmann and Palin keep speaking because the more they say, the stupider they look. If I were a Dem running this November I would be using these statements in ads. Imagine a few commercials with Republicans talking about ending SS and Medicare. The statements by these Republicans are going to be more likely to be heard than the Republican candidate. People eat up sound bytes not substance.
February 8th, 2010 at 7:07 pmjwest says:
Even with the occasional crashes, a conservative, diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds does far, far better than the return you get from Social Security.
Only if you get to pick and choose the starting and stopping point for comparison. If the market crashes or is otherwise recessed during the time you need to retire, you’re f’d.
Also, boom/bust cycles are driven by an overflow of investment capital forcing its way into the market, creating the demand for overleveraged and overvalued financial products. Think about credit default swaps: what were the sums of all of the underlying mortgages worth, compared to the sum of the value that the CDS’s were trading at? So how did all that extra money get in there? It was real money, in that people really did lose it. But it wasn’t transparently tied to any underlying economic activity or asset whatsoever. There was simply more total investment than there was assets to invest in. And as soon as everybody realized that everybody else was playing the same game, the inflated value corrected itself to the real value, dropping the bottom out of the entire financial services market.
Dump all of that Social Security money onto the market, and you’re just about guaranteed to have a massive crash within just a few years.
Which is exactly why corporate-conservatives want it. They habitually use boom/bust cycles as methods to transfer wealth to the wealthy. They reap the gains and somebody else takes the losses. Start all over again and repeat.
.
snowcker says:
If the working persons taxes pass through the governemnt to pay my benefit, than the government in real time is taking from the haves and giving to the have nots. The way they got the American people to go along with this is to create this complex structure of accounts and earned benefits
If you look at the condition of the elderly prior to the establishment of Social Security, you would never call them “haves.” It used to be that being old and being destitute were pretty much synonymous.
I think generational transfers work fine. Whether you’re paying your own old self personally or mixing it up to increase efficiency, the aggregate outcome, impact and benefit on each citizen is identical. I’m sorry if it’s too complex for you to understand clearly; I assure you for most of us, it’s no problem whatsoever.
February 8th, 2010 at 8:00 pm“The real estate under bridges and freeway overpasses is gonna be prime for the elderly and disabled.”
Yeah, your telling me. Getting rid of Social Security and Medicare is every Repiglican’s wet dream….I can see it now, they are talking in their sleep and just dreaming about getting rid of these social safety nets, and making the rich even richer. These people (especially Bachmann, she is a certified crazy) just make me sick.
February 8th, 2010 at 8:10 pmChantilly lace and a pretty face
And a pony tail hanging down
That wiggle in the walk and giggle in the talk
Makes the world go ’round
[Thank you BigBopper]
That’s what the rethug men love–Sarah and Michelle. So cute. So stupid.
There are actually real women out here who know that if these wingnut plans to privatize social security had passed in Bush’s time, most of you would be out about a third of your retirement funds.
Could somebody in the Democratic leadership say that, clearly, in about 10 words? Anyone?
February 8th, 2010 at 9:08 pmlux (brought to you by The Truth (c)) says:
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snowcker — I scored 346/400 on the progressive quiz..
take the quiz
I got a 304/400 on the progressive quiz.
February 8th, 2010 at 9:10 pmThe funny thing is, I was a McCain voter, and I migh have screwed the system up, since they listed the average McCain voters as extremely conservative.
Then again, I would have considered myself an independent in 2008, so I would have scored better than the average McCain voter. At least I hope so.
February 8th, 2010 at 9:18 pmsnowcker says
I would argue that the amount that I have “paid into the system” is gone.
The amount paid in to social security is nearly identical to the payout – it isn’t in trouble.. medicare is the problem.
As the baby boomer population grays we will have a disproportionate number of 65 + yr olds in the system.. which causes us to hit a decent bump in the road further on – but social security isn’t even in danger of not being able to be paid for until 2037… and the tiniest of SS tax increases would fix the problem.. as much as one half a percent would most likely correct it’s situation. But no, social security isn’t the concern… it’s a false flag, it’s a pointless talking point used by the right to provoke fear and to try to claim that the entitlements are all in trouble.. which sure – every entitlement will be in trouble if medicare isn’t fixed – because between medicare, defense and the interest on the debt, no money will be available for anything else – unless both medicare and our ridiculous defense spending are addressed.. but ss? it’s not the issue..
February 8th, 2010 at 10:25 pm304 is acceptable linzloo08 =)
That’s still extremely progressive.. anything above 300 and you are definitely a leftie.
February 8th, 2010 at 10:27 pmHow about we mean our military and the department of homeland security off of their bloated, wasteful budgets. And while we are at it lets wean our politicians and all federal workers off of their government health care, government pensions and give them all pay cuts.
February 8th, 2010 at 11:34 pmmean = wean
February 8th, 2010 at 11:35 pmI don’t think that McCain voters were so much “conservative” as batscat crazy. Plus an unknown percentage of rabid, unabashed, racists. I’m glad to see that the insanity was temporary, linzloo.
Personally, I could have voted for the John McCain who lost to an imbecile in the 2000 primaries. But? The Flippy McSpin who nominated a phucking retard for VP in 2008 should never, ever, be trusted with another elected office. His pandering to the stupidest 20% of the American electorate is unforgivable.
February 8th, 2010 at 11:36 pmWisconsin is 16th of all states for receiving “Farm Subsidies”
In the corn fields in her back yard is a huge project for wind turbines that is being built by a Chinese firm to supply “Clean Energy”.
She feels like being in an enemy camp in DC, Wait until she gets her Elect Bill at home.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:01 amHey, we can eliminate the Social Security and Medicare “problems” and feed the hungry at the same time.
Two words — Soylent Green. — Labman57
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One little problem with that, LM…it would open the door to euthanasia, dontcha know. Remember that Sol Roth “went home” voluntarily, and that he went to a facility which offered this service. Based on all the fearmongering they indulged in last summer about “death panels”, it’s all too clear that the Republicans would never agree to this…despite the fact that voluntary assisted suicide would actually be more humane in some respects than simply watching people suffer from homelessness, hunger, and slow death from untreated medical conditions. The neoconservatives are Social Darwinists, plain and simple. Talk is cheap, and actions speak far louder than words — and despite all their protests to the contrary, their actions make it only too apparent that they see little or no inherent value in human life
February 9th, 2010 at 9:19 amOK, but first pay me back all the money I’ve paid into these programs all these years. I bet it’ll be a heck of a lot more $ than I’ll ever get out of it after I retire.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:06 amMee Shell is a schill for Shell and all other for profit corporations that feed the R-wing spin machine to help win seats in congress to keep their Fascist ideals alive with. Ity’s a shock-n-awe kind of spin machine. And the desperately mindless among them, when they get excited about an issue, use the NON-facts of their peers ie; Glenn Beck, more and end up sounding even stupider than usual. Stupid is as stupid does. stupid isn’t the same as ignorant. stupid ignores a fact & ignorant doesn’t know about a fact.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:54 am“What Bachman is proposing is a massive retroactive tax increase on those in their 50s, 40s and late 30s. The money that you’ve been paying in to Social Security all you working lives and thought you would see again after you retire will, under Bachman’s proposal, becomes just another tax that you paid into the general fund and got spent along with everything else.”
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February 9th, 2010 at 11:08 amI think she learned this from Timmy Pawlenty our govenator in MN. I think he will try to run for PRESIDENT soon. Beware, he also raises taxes on the working poor by shifting budgets around under coconut shells superstitiously and calls them tax cuts. He plays a shell game in MN to appear as to not be raising taxes. Property taxes are taking the load locally here though by skyrocketing in most locations.
Did she forget to take her meds this week or what?
February 9th, 2010 at 11:56 amIf all the congressmen and senators retired and present paid for their own health care we could save a fortune.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:29 pmCan we wean Bachmann from her government sponsored health care plan, her government pension plan and generous perks? She should also be willing to be furloughed for several days each month as many state and local governments are doing with their employees since Congress isn’t doing much anyway. It’s our tax dollars at work. Aren’t we taxed enough already?
February 9th, 2010 at 3:36 pm“The GOP Campaign in 2010 Mid-term Has Already Begun”
I have a brief idea published on Associated Content regarding this at:
February 9th, 2010 at 3:40 pmhttp://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2674501/the_gop_campaign_in_the_2010_midterm.html?cat=9
The only, and I mean ONLY, reason she didn’t propose the instant end of SS and Medicare is that even she knows she would lose every single vote from senior citizens. Mark my words. The audience she is really talking to are the young anarchist skinheads of the teabagger movement. She is truly committed to getting the vote of the stupidest 20% of the American electorate, like our stupid pet trolls, but she won’t intentionally piss off the old folks.
February 13th, 2010 at 7:35 amDemoGoddess says:
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Can we wean Bachmann from her government sponsored health care plan, her government pension plan and generous perks? She should also be willing to be furloughed for several days each month as many state and local governments are doing with their employees since Congress isn’t doing much anyway. It’s our tax dollars at work. Aren’t we taxed enough already?
But, but she has important work to do!
February 13th, 2010 at 11:26 pmShe doesn’t wanna work for free, ya know?
/snark