Lindsey Graham considering overturning the 14th amendment to end ‘birthright citizenship.’
Lindsey Graham considering overturning the 14th amendment to end ‘birthright citizenship.’
Politico reports that Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who many previously thought would co-sponsor comprehensive immigration reform this year, is considering radically changing the 14th amendment. Graham may introduce a constitutional amendment that would overturn the portion of the Constitution which states “[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” In other words, Graham wants to end the practice of granting citizenship to the children of undocumented immigrants born on U.S. soil. Politico reports:
“I may introduce a constitutional amendment that changes the rules if you have a child here,” Graham said during an interview with Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren. “Birthright citizenship I think is a mistake, that we should change our Constitution and say if you come here illegally and you have a child, that child’s automatically not a citizen.” [...]
“I’m a practical guy, but when you go forward, I don’t want 20 million more 20 years from now,” he said. “I want to be fair. I want to be humane. We need immigration policy, but it should be on our terms, not someone else’s. I don’t know how to fix it all. But I do know what makes people mad, that 12 million people came here and there seems to be no system to deal with stopping 20 million 20 years from now.”
Graham wouldn’t be the first lawmaker to introduce legislation that would dramatically alter the 14th amendment. However, similar efforts have been led by Congress’ right-wing demagogues. Graham is now also following in the footsteps of the rabidly right-wing Arizona state Sen. Russell Pearce — the sponsor of SB-1070 who plans to “target the mother” by going after the “anchor baby racket.” A few months ago, Graham introduced a framework for immigration reform with Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) that included a path to legalization for undocumented workers. In March, Graham walked away from the table, calling immigration reform “dead” after health care reform passed. Since then, Graham has joined his fellow Republicans in defending Arizona, blocking immigration reform, and calling for an enforcement-only approach.
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If we’re going to change the constitution, let’s get serious:
*Give Congress the ability to determine which rights apply to companies/corporations.
*Make the filibuster unconstitutional.
*Make health care a right.
*Clarify that there is no such thing as the unitary executive.
*Do away with the electoral college.
July 29th, 2010 at 12:53 pmThat’s just a few to get things started…
Lindsey, can you say fart in church? As a supposed Senator, you do know what it takes to amend the Constitution. While your are at it, why not include the latest insanity out of Iowa?
July 29th, 2010 at 12:55 pmTargeting pregnant women? How ‘Christian’! I have a solution. Why don’t the Repugs go after Big Business and people who hire domestic workers like gardeners and nannies to clean up after their children and themselves? Or better yet, do the Repugs mean to say that their are NO Businesses that hire illegals in Arizona? If the Repugs were serious about stopping the flow of illegals, this would be the place to start.
July 29th, 2010 at 12:59 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Let’s think about this for a minute…if it were made retroactive, we could deport Michelle Malkin…
This might not be such a BAD idea after all…
July 29th, 2010 at 1:06 pmSince some people and groups want to amend so many pieces of the Constitution, maybe they should consider that they’re in the wrong country.
The U.S. Constitution is a secular, social, liberal document. If you don’t like that, you are welcome to leave.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:06 pmIf anything is the Constitution needs to be changed it is to put in a specific right to privacy. Republicans always say they want government out of people’s lives, so if they were anything but hypocrites, they would support the idea that privacy should be a specified right.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:07 pmIf you remove the name from the document, the politician and the front page national issue…and all the baggage associated with each, it is a good question to ask.
Why as a nation do we have a pathway to legal citzenship for children born of non legal citizens”?
Probably my ignorance on the history of this clause. Any reasoned rebuttal/answer?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:07 pmOne of these days the Republicans will do something positive or constructive that doesn’t involve removing or taking things away, or frivolously spending money on wasted efforts and the entire country will have a group heart attack.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:09 pmHey, I’m all for it. This way the real, Native Americans can tell all of us interlopers to Get Out! (No end to this Crazy Train! Just a race to see who the Craziest will be!)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:09 pmForget about repealing the 14th because it will never float and it will take years and money which we don’t have time for. Keeping out 20 million more people that are black,brown and semetic back grounds is what your white wealthy conservative a$$ is saying.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:10 pmpandering.
.
OT – surely you’ve heard by now:
Shirley Sherrod Vows to Sue Andrew Breitbart
CBS News – Brian Montopoli – 15 minutes ago
Ousted USDA official Shirley Sherrod said in a speech to the National Association of Black Journalists in San Diego this morning that she will sue Andrew Breitbart, the conservative journalist and activist who posted the out-of-context video of her …
all 915 news articles »
question to TP -
i’ve tried looking, but most troolls get hidden (YAY!!!) and i don’t want to dig that deep, but i seem to recall hearing about that, from the troolls, on SUNDAY…
is there a way you can find those comments announcing this “new” revelation of “black racism” …?
it could have been on monday, when the story hit big time, but i keep thinking i was reading some bits, before voting down, on SUNDAY.
anyone else?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:13 pmIn response to Mr. Duke’s question @4: Is the United States Constitution which is the rule of law in this country also the rule of law in this other country? If not then it is a bogus question!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:13 pmThe concept of a senator from South Carolina, cradle of treason, suggesting modification of the 14th amendment is appalling.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:14 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
If Dukie was really concerned and a true American, he would volunteer to do field research. It would get him out of his basement.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:16 pmLady Graham has tight panties on. He thinks this is a door to close for children born in the US but it will allow a person like Arnie the Terminator to run for President. The Constitution was formed by the smartest men who formed this Nation. Like the foundation of a house Graham will brake down one beam and weaken the others. This is what happens when voters elect officials who are to bright and have been given degrees without earning it. Let’s hope Lady Graham is spilling this stuff out to please his fellow Republicans/Tea Party/KKK friends.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:16 pmhar5125 says:
In response to Mr. Duke’s question @4: Is the United States Constitution which is the rule of law in this country also the rule of law in this other country? If not then it is a bogus question!
I think he’s suggesting that we should do what other countries do. I wonder if that includes 100% universal healthcare?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:17 pmgetplaning says:
Let’s think about this for a minute…if it were made retroactive, we could deport Michelle Malkin…
This might not be such a BAD idea after all…
And Anchor Baby Jindal…
PEACE
July 29th, 2010 at 1:17 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The law in Arizona is Unconstitutional. I understand how people are upset that illigals are coming into the Country. But the Repugs let this sitution fester. I feel like screaming when McCain says things like ‘Build the dang fence!’ (which made him look like a old fool) when he has been in office for decades. NOW the Repugs are calling this a problem and blame the Federal Government because they, themselves let this continue? I ain’t buying it.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:20 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Graham is appealing to the worst and most ignorant of the hate-mongers – or the core of the Republican party.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:21 pmMizzD!kkkless doesn’t understand how “freedom of speech”, the power to the people and the whole host of other items in the constitution make it a “liberal document”? ROTFL!
D!kkkless, you are truly a wonder of retardation among the GOP. You clearly don’t have enough brain power to wipe your own @ss, it’s a “miracle” you can even retype the right wing talking points you spew…
July 29th, 2010 at 1:21 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The 14th Amendment was mainly wriiten to grant citizenship to the former slaves. Interestingly, it was written and passed by Republicans. My, how the Grand Old Party has changed.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:22 pmMizzD!kkkless, that the debt which was accumulated almost entirely from GOP economic policies under republiKKKlan presidents? ROTFL!
Funny how you sh!tbags kept electing Republicans when they were spending but we never saw any of you guys calling for RayGun or the Bushes to be impeached while it was happening! ;)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:23 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This is just another sad attempt by CandyAss Graham to appear relevant. This is just another sad attempt by CandyAss Graham to get his face and name in the news. This is just sad.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:23 pmMizzD!kkkless, no, it’s clear from the legal arguments it’s unconstitutional. What happens on the court is more of a reflection of the politics of Roberts and Scalia than legal arguments. That’s how we got the unconstitutional ruling in Gore v. Bush that every sane lawyer and judge in the country turn their noses up against… ;)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:24 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
30, follow your own advice princess. you’ll not be able to give enough blowjobs forever to keep you off the streets…
July 29th, 2010 at 1:25 pmSpeaking of anchors, I regularly use Martha as my boat anchor. You’d be surprised at how long she can hold her breath. I suppose all that time deep throating the boys down at the car wash has paid off.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:25 pmMr. Puke, almmost all the Constitutional experts agree this Law IS unconstitutional. Jonathan Turley is one of the best Constituional experts in the Country and he said it is unconstitutional.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:25 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
33, MizzD!kkkless, your party is a myth as they’ve never governed. The RepubliKKKlan als claims to be fiscally responsible, but they’re all liars just like you and your fellow fringe libertards.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:25 pmGreat rebuttal, MizzD!kkkless.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:26 pmMizzD!kkkless, says the hypocrite that has a legal opinion. Follow your own advice princess, and you won’t look like such a retarded schmuck the next time you make a “legal ruling”! ROTFL!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:26 pmLet me get this straight. The right-wingnuts here want us to repeal the 14th Amendment because countries like France do not have the equivalent.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:26 pm#27 – Mr.Duke says:
—————————————————-
“Hold your horses, P.D. … How about we what for the Supreme Court to say if it is unconstitutional or not. …Your opinion means nothing. The court will decide. …”
July 29th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
So, does that extend to YOUR “meaningless” opinion about AZ’s law as well?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:27 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
When your candidate wins MizzD!kkkless your opinion will matter. Until then you flushing your vote down the toilet makes your opinion irrelevant…
July 29th, 2010 at 1:27 pmMizzD!kkkless, funny you libertard fools remind me of children that never want to grow up.
More retarded “legal opinions” from the non-judge? Shokkker!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:28 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
MizzD!kkkless says in a democracy our opinion means nothing? Funny how the same sh!tbag constantly concludes her opinion means everything. Classic KKKon hypocrisy. So boring… zzz…
July 29th, 2010 at 1:29 pmMr.Duke says:
my party is fiscally responsible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Record debt, record deficit, borrow and spend like mad, legislated over the current mess we are in, asleep at the wheel during the subprime bubble, in charge during the worst job creation in history, yeah your party is really responsible.
get a job…… this coming from a jobless guy who plays a wealthy businessman on the internet. Too funny!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:29 pmIt must be Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease affecting all these right wing beef eaters.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:29 pm“Get job on Supreme Court…”
What are you, a Neanderthal?
“Me big ditto head. Me throw up.”
July 29th, 2010 at 1:30 pm#8:
The reason children born in the US are deemed citizens is the language of section 1 of the 14th amendment which states that all persons “born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” are citizens. When the amendment became effective in 1868 the US did not have a quota system for immigration as it does now. The purpose of the language quoted above was to grant the freed slaves citizenship rights. As immigration shifted towards southern and eastern Europeans the periodic bouts of nativism which we have seen since the 1750s or so (Germans were the enemy then followed by the Irish) became more virulent and led to more restrictive immigration laws. When brown and yellow people started coming over things got stricter. The current call to change the rules is just the latest round of descendants of immigrants seeking to pull the ladder up behind them.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:30 pmMizzD!kkkless, I agree, your opinion means nothing because you’ll never vote for any politician who ever gets elected. My opinion however is tied to the winning votes, so you’re wrong, it does mean something in a “democracy”… ;)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:30 pmThis Amendment is a reflection of the times when the Constitution was written. Face it, people were immigrating to the new US like fleas finding the dog pound and the legendary founding fathers realized they needed a mechanism to insure that those who came had strong reasons to stay and help build the country.
Today, the geographic location of a birthing site has about as much bearing on citizenship as ethnicity. I really have no problem with changing this but we’ve got lots more important things to do now. Giving anchor babies citizenship doesn’t mean much when we are actively denying adult citizens equal rights.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:30 pmIt is easy for Mr. Puke to say wait for the SC to decide when it when the Majority is Right Wing zealots like Scalia and Thomas.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:30 pmAwwww…. he’s just cuttin’ up to get attention. And he’d have a hell of a time getting it through 3/4 of the states. And I’d like to add the Women’s Rights Amendment to the list, if it isn’t already. Remember that one?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:31 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Our forefathers could not forsee the ability of modern travel and I would have to agree.
But, I’m native American and we think most everyone is an anchor baby…hehe.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:31 pmMr.Duke says:
my party is fiscally responsible.
Meaning, I’m too cheap to buy beer and munchies. Ever think that’s why you have such a small party?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:32 pmMizzD!kkkless, want to have another go at me educating you on your ignorance of our economic and health care system? Your “wild retarded claims” were so fun to debunk, and it’s always a great pleasure to rub your little b!tch nose in your own sh!t. Eventually someone as retarded as even you can be potty trained! ;)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:32 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
MizzD!kkkless, but my vote elected a president who’s in charge and a congress that’s in charge, yours elected who – oh right, no one in charge… ;)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:33 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
So basically, when confronted with justifiable arguments regarding the topic, D!ckless runs with tail ‘tween legs, stating “Just wait and see…”
Next, he’ll go tell “Momma” the “mean Progressives weren’t playing nicey nice.”
July 29th, 2010 at 1:34 pmWhen are the conservatives going to start attacking the companies that hire illegal workers and are therefore THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM???
They’re not. They have no interest in solving this problem. Illegal immigration is a handy election season distraction. Don’t ever expect to see it fixed.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:34 pmMizzD!kkkless, ROTFL! The government taking care of you gave you the internet to spew your sh!tbag libertard rhetoric you ignorant rube! ROTFL!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:34 pm“I’m a practical guy, but when you go forward, I don’t want 20 million more 20 years from now,” he said.
20 million more of whom? Brown people? That’s what he means. He’s afraid that America may become a true melting pot. He and many others are afraid that white people may not have a huge majority.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:34 pm65, project much 24×7 moron that “vandalizes private property” while falsely claiming to be a libertard. Private property, STFU you moron.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:35 pmMr.Duke says:
My opinion on the issue means as much as your opinion. …nothing. .. the supreme court opinion is all that matters. …
Then please shut-up and go away if your opinion means nothing.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:35 pmOh look! A D!ckless troll vs. a spammer!
This could get entertaining.
Or not.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:35 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
MizzD!kkkless is too retarded to understand what “spam” is? ROTFL! That’s rich! Were you hit in the head D!kkkless, dropped as a baby? Because you’re a complete retard!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:36 pmFor someone who regularly tells others to get a job, Duke sure spends a lot of time here blogging. Oh and Duke, we know you are most likely one of those who attack government yet at the same time enjoys surviving off of their social benefits. You aren’t fooling anybody with your uppity rhetoric.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:36 pmJuly 29th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
MizzD!kkkless, then if that were true you would have no reason to complain, so stop vandalizing this private property website with your propaganda trollsh!t you dumphukkk lying moron…
July 29th, 2010 at 1:37 pmWow, so D!ckless is a major rich person who bestows upon society the benefits of the wealthy.
(YAWN!)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:37 pmMr.Duke says:
Get a job. … sitting in your mother’s basement making online comments will get you nowhere.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:38 pm~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Someone needs to seriously heed his own advice!
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
DRxJ, yes, D!kkkless claims to be a generous rich person who’s here to help everyone get rich! ROTFL! The beginning of every “Con”! ;)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:38 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Lindsey also wrote a less publicized Bill to change the plaque at the Statue of Liberty:
“Give me your lobbyists, your PAC money,
Your corporations yearning to be regulation free,
to Spill your toxic sludge on our teeming shores.
Send these, the capitalists, with political donations to me,
I lift my mouth beside their golden balls!
ps-tell the poor huddled masses to go fu(k themselves!”
July 29th, 2010 at 1:39 pmMizzD!kkkless doesn’t realize that the internet came from the government and that they granted a license for allow people to access it through phone and cable companies? ROTFL! Of course not!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:39 pmRich people don’t pay their fair share of taxes MizzD!kkkless, that’s the point! ;)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:40 pmGet a job? Why should someone else pay you to work? Grow your own food, don’t depend on someone else. Build your own house. Take out your own appendix. Provide your own entertainment. Fight your own fires. Why should anyone else have to help you? If you don’t the gubmint to help you or anyone else, why do you think your neighbors or community should?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:40 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Hoodathunk, don’t point out the contradictions in MizzD!kkkless fascist agenda! Getting a job is depending on the “government” structure of a “corporation” which is just another form of private government… ROTFL!
MizzD!kkkless is so retarded it’s almost not fair to make fun of her dumbsh!t comments! ;)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:41 pmJust wait, when Duke gets pummeled too much he will tell us he is leaving to go make some more money. “yawn”
July 29th, 2010 at 1:41 pmOkay, now D!ckless is just typing random words imbedded in talking point paragraphs to try and look intelligent.
Sorry, ain’t working.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:42 pmMizzd!kkkless, just imagine, every hour after hour, after hour you spend her vandalizing private property, you could be getting a job or doing something productive.
Instead you’re here being a hypocrite, and proving yourself to be a liar… zzzz…
July 29th, 2010 at 1:42 pm#28
#52
much thanks; hard to form an opinion at times without context.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:42 pmAs I pointed out “repeatedly” before MizzD!kkkless, your jobless retards are largely in “red states” which are paid for by us “hard working blue state folks”.
Retarded much?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:42 pmThen you are a moron.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:43 pmGet a job? Check.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:43 pmStart a business? Check.
Do something productive? Check.
Making online comments from mom’s basement which is not much of a future? Oh, the irony is thick with that one.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The govt. gave ME the internet? …
Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA)was the U.S. government’s research agency for all space and strategic missile research. In 1958, NASA was formed, and the activities of ARPA moved away from aeronautics and focused mainly on computer science and information processing
. One of ARPA’s goals was to connect mainframe computers at different universities around the country so that they would be able to communicate
using a common language and a common protocol. Thus the ARPAnet — the world’s first multiple-site computer network
– was created in 1969.
The original ARPAnet eventually grew into the Internet. The Internet was based on the concept that there would be multiple independent networks that began with the ARPAnet as the pioneering packet-switching network but would soon include packet satellite networks and ground-based packet radio networks.
Yes the government gave us the internet.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:44 pmHe can’t be talking about illegal immigrants, because they will be citizens, having been born here. This is a purely racist argument.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:45 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Income taxes are only part of the tax burden dipsh!t, and the other taxes are regressive so they’re weighted to the working poor.
Another thing I have to educate someone who’s supposedly an expert in business on? ROTFL! Shokkker!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:46 pm@99 – I will will?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:47 pmMizzD!kkkless, you mean the blight where I correct your ignorance with facts and meaningful statistics? ROTFL! To a dumphukkk with talking points like yourself that must be a blight! ROTFL!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:47 pmRayferd @ 102,
July 29th, 2010 at 1:49 pmYes yes.
And he’ll will also need to use his PIN number at the ATM machine to access his massive account account!
Go to a public library MizzD!kkkless and you can get on the internet for free thanks to the government! Wow, you’re a real retard aren’t you princess?
July 29th, 2010 at 1:49 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Bagger Blight: A systemic disease that refuses to acknowledge that the entire infrastructure they take for granted has been a joint effort for some 234 years between private citizens and government. The most common symptom of this disease is that by getting rid of government they think this massive infrastructure will somehow be magically be maintained by ‘people with real jobs’.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:51 pmOkay D!ckless, I completely know that you are enjoying the attention (for whatever gawd forsaken reason), but let’s make one thing PERFECTLY CLEAR!!!
The amount of wealth one acquires is NO WAY equivalent to being RICH or being POOR!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:51 pmMr.Duke says:
OMG… have you no clue. … the top 10% of earners pay 90% of all income taxes. .. ..
Wrong! Social Security and Medicare are income taxes that come out of every working paycheck. They’re just dedicated to specific federally allocated functions.
Mr.Duke says:
47% pay zero income taxes. …
Wrong! Every taxpayer pays a minimum of 7.2% of taxes for SSI/Medicare no matter how poor they are.
Mr.Duke says:
Fair share? You are a selfish kid.
Says the dumphukkk that want people who don’t have enough money to eat to have to pay more taxes, but don’t want rich people taxed about 100k for the same percentage of SSI/Medicare.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:51 pm106, let me guess, you’re an idiot who’s projecting.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:52 pmActually when you add unemployment insurance poor people pay a minimum of 8.45% in income taxes out of every paycheck.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:54 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Martian V:
…Getting rid of the “anchor baby” would disarm the mexican of one his strongest weapons against us…
Don’t worry, we still have lots of weapons to use against you. Tap water, for instance.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:54 pmSo much for the MizzD!kkkles lie of “no income taxes are paid by the poor”…
Lets also not forget property taxes, which the poor pay directly or through rent.
Lets not forget sales taxes and state taxes depending on the state.
Lets not forget gas taxes.
On and on…
The poor pay plenty of taxes that MizzD!kkkless ignores. She constantly repeats and I constantly correct her on when says the poor don’t pay taxes. It’s a lie, a smear and nothing but class warfare.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:56 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
ROTFL! Taxes taken out of one’s income are all forms of “income taxes” d**chebag moron!
Some are for specific federal spending, others are general and discretionary. They’re all income tax you ignorant dumphukkk rube who’s too stupid to know the internet is a government entitlement! ;)
July 29th, 2010 at 1:57 pmLOL! The dumphukkk doesn’t realize that everything the government “funds” is “funded by taxpayers” and that’s what the “free entitlement” programs she’s been whining come from? ROTFL!
Wow, you make retarded look genius little dumphukkk!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:58 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Luis Chapulin M, I just love your retorts to the Muffin (wo)man!
You know more about U.S. history than all the parasitic nematodes/trolls put together – and you put them in their place time after time!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:59 pmMizzD!kkkless spews something and says nothing? Shokkker!
Once again you’ve been PWNED MizzD!kkkless but you’re too big of a p*ssy to admit it? Shokkker!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:59 pmMessing with constitutional amendments? Wow, the minority party sure has some pretty big goals set for themselves. Might as well tell me they’re going to use their minds to create unicorns through sheer force of will.
Yet again, they don’t give a crap about the issue, or else they’d propose doing something that’s actually possible for them. Just more dog-whistle racist politics.
.
Mr.Duke says:
Free internet at the library? The library is open because of taxpayers funding it. … what is so free about that?
Well, it’s free to you. I don’t mind chipping in to help make it available to ya. You’re welcome.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:00 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
jtbf never stated that, and you know it, D!ckless!
July 29th, 2010 at 2:01 pmSo much for your attempt at a productive argument and intelligence.
The poor usually pay more property taxes than the rich. The poor often have to commute further to afford housing in the extended suburbs, paying more in gas taxes. The poor use a higher percentage of their income in “consuming” because they make so little, thereby paying more in sales taxes.
Sorry MizzD!kkkless, no matter how you slice it the poor pay more than their share compared to their income levels.
Your “zero taxes” is utter bullsh!t just like every other libertard lie you spew.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:01 pmThe dumphukkk who had her @ss handed to her is running off to take out the garbage for her momma? Shokkker!
Get a job you little piece of sh!t, and stop wasting your summer being a lying d**chebag jobless sh!thead MizzD!kkkless..
July 29th, 2010 at 2:02 pmtranslation for D!ckless,
“I forgo any resemblance of intellect, and must abrubtly exit before I receive another portion of my posterior handed to me on a sliver platter…”
Buh Bye!
July 29th, 2010 at 2:03 pmMizzD!kkkless should ask his accountant what SSI/FICA are called on the federal employer filing forms. You know “federal withholding taxes”?
You can’t fix retarded…
July 29th, 2010 at 2:05 pmRun along and FOAD D!kkkless dumbsh!t…
July 29th, 2010 at 2:05 pmgreat. mccain wont be able to run for president.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:09 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
i tawt u wuz leebin duke.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:12 pmaww, poor little dukey
he’s all concerned because rich people are always whining about not having enough money
those poor downtrodden rich people, cursed by the lucky sperm club into being wealthy and pissed that they might have to pay for the infrastructure they use more than others
tsk tsk
dukey sure does have a big heart for those poor rich people
so much that he pretends to be one
but I think you guys are wrong about him being in the basement
trailers don’t have basements
July 29th, 2010 at 2:13 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Caption: Give me that, big guy. I’ve been waiting to put something in my mouth all morning.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:14 pmcaption: now why did they put that teleprompter way up over there.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:15 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
graham wants to remove michelle malkins citizenship. oh noes.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:20 pmwhat promotes illegals coming to the usa is people hiring them.
lets take away the citizenship of those who hire illegals and offshore jobs.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:23 pmSo let’s see…. MASSIVE MAJORITIES REQUIRED in 1) Senate Approval – NOT going to happen, and 2) RATIFICATION by a huge majority of the States – NOT going to happen….
Grahamhamham must just be reading from the crypt-notes in front of him… NOTHING of this sort will EVER be passed or approved… This is just media noise..
July 29th, 2010 at 2:29 pmI agree that businesses which hire illegal immigrants should be subject to punitive measures because it takes away jobs from American citizens. However, you have to remember that if they can get over the border and drop an anchor baby they are eligible for WELFARE which is paid for by the same taxpayers whose jobs they are stealing. Furthermore, it doesn’t say anywhere in the constitution that its up to businesses to protect our border, thats supossed to be the government’s job.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:32 pmjust the bleepn facts says:
The poor usually pay more property taxes than the rich.
Dukey:
“OMG, all those poor people with big mansions are paying giant property tax bils. … more than rich people in big mansions pay in property taxes. … classic, I will remember this one. … a great joke I will be passing on to many. Thank you. You made my day …. good night.
When considered as a percentage of their incomes, they do in fact pay more, but Dukey’s too thick to ever understand that.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:34 pmHowever, you have to remember that if they can get over the border and drop an anchor baby they are eligible for WELFARE which is paid for by the same taxpayers whose jobs they are stealing.
The child is eligible, and the parents are responsible for making sure the money is spent on the child, just like with natural born Americans.
To say the parents are getting welfare is disingenuous.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:37 pmBefore 1921, anyone who wanted to come to America could. Just show up, and after 7 years you applied. But in the 20’s (a Reoublican Era par excellence) nativists instituted quotas based on all sorts of dandy prejudices. It’s therefore not been all that long since American citizenship was bestowed with generosity.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:38 pmOf course, if you weren’t white pre-1921, there were all sorts of de facto blockades. Try being Chinese, for example…
But this whole jealously-guarded citizenship thing is like “In God We Trust” or the change to the Pledge of Allegiance: a Republican implantation that they feverishly pretend to be as old as the Republic.
barfly:
“When considered as a percentage of their incomes, they do in fact pay more, but Dukey’s too thick to ever understand that.”
Most likely not, if you are making more money, you probably have a more expensive morgage and are paying the same percentage of you income for your house (albeit, a bigger house). However, if we want to discuss how unfair the tax system is, what about the inequality out progessive income tax system which punishes middle class success?
July 29th, 2010 at 2:39 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
oblasknny:
the middle class got a tax cut under Obama so your “point” is moot
but thanks for playing
July 29th, 2010 at 2:46 pmONLY IF HE HAS 60 VOTES, I HOPE THE WEAK ASS DEMS SEE HOW BAD THEY FAILED THE PEOPLE BY NOT STANDING UP TO BUSH.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:47 pmolaskinny:
Immigration enforcement has INCREASED since Obama took office, especially going after the people that HIRE them
so your other “point” is also moot
you better go ask the radio what to think now
July 29th, 2010 at 2:47 pmHe’s right!!! now, where do we set the retroactive date to?
1401 sounds like a good year to me!!
Now get out all you Damn Illegal British, Spanish and other Europeans and Asians and Canadians!!!
July 29th, 2010 at 2:52 pmRanting Tommy,
That’s great, they received an even bigger tax-cut under Bush (which Obama and Congress are set to let expire this year so we’ll see how everyone feels when that “tax cut” becomes a tax increase) but you entirely missed the point I was trying to make, I was pointing out that the progressive tax scale discourages economic advancement by taking a progressively larger percentage of income as one makes more money. The mentality in America has become “O you make more money now, we can’t have that, we’ll just take 30 percent instead of 25 percent now so your raise doesn’t offend someboday”
July 29th, 2010 at 2:53 pmRanting Tommy,
Again, I don’t see why you think I’m trying to knock Obama, I think it’s wonderful that he’s taken steps to increase immigration enforcement.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:57 pmTarget the anchor employers.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:58 pmoblaskins says:
barfly,
I don’t know where you’re from, but I’ve lived in Southern California my entire life. I see plenty of supossedly “poor” immigrant families who have 2 cars, a big screen tv, and cellphones.
I live in El Cajon. Have for 20 years. Can you prove the stuff was bought with welfare money? Or does the fact that they sometimes live 8-10 people per household mean lower living expenses, and more money for other things?
July 29th, 2010 at 3:01 pmBarfly,
I’m from Lemon Grove so I’m very familiar with the area. If they’re receiving welfare money then chances are that yes it is going to those things, but its impossible to prove the the state of California is so inept as to not have any kind of effective means of tracking welfare money. As for living 8-10 people per household,I will admit that is a common occurrence (although illegal in most areas) however, all this is irrelevant because the point is THEYRE NOT SUPOSSED TO BE HERE.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:10 pmDoes he have children? Or is he simply trying to ensure that the citizens of the US in the future all have popped out blue eyes, blond hair and no chins by other means?
July 29th, 2010 at 3:11 pmDoes this Graham idiot really call himself a lawyer? In what universe? Birthright citizenship has been part of common law for centuries; it predates the US Constitution. I can appreciate that he feels a need to grind some BS into red meat for his Know Nothing constituents, but the fact is that working immigrants and any children they have who may have been born in this country are not a problem for anyone except a few pea-brained xenophobes and racists.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:13 pmIf he wants to highlight his own racism and paranoia in a futile attempt to amend the constitution, I say: “Have at it!” If he wants to put all the racists in one place and then tie himself to them, I think we should let him. We are getting less and less racist all the time; I’d rather we be on the anti-racist side. I’ll cede the entire racist vote to the Republicans as long as they are embracing it.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:38 pm@Virtual Pebble
Ya well us pea-brained xenophobic racists are paying for their healthcare, meals, and education
July 29th, 2010 at 3:39 pmMr.Duke says:
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
I would say that the question can only be answered in view of the governing legislation of the country in question. Here the governing legislation is the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution. If you wnat to change that, get two-thirds of the House and Senate AND two-thirds of the state legislatures to agree.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:48 pmMr.Duke says:
my party is fiscally responsible.
How can you say that with a straight face, turdbloom?
July 29th, 2010 at 3:49 pmThat’s a pretty snarky picture of Lindsey at the top of this thread. Must be looking back into the closet he came out of…
July 29th, 2010 at 3:57 pmHey, if Lindsey gets his way, let’s ship all those rich Cubans in miami back to Havana.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:59 pm#150 oblaskins- actually, a progressive tax system is a stimulus to creating jobs. If I were an employer who paid more in taxes because of progressive taxation, I’d know that the money was going to be taken anyway. Consequently, if I can use that money to build inventory, or improve the infrastructure of my business (and thus be able to deduct it from my taxes), it would be wise of me to do so. In the end I would have a stronger business, paid for with tax money I would normally have to give up (and now deductible). A stronger business means more potential profits for me.
Tax cuts do not give any incentive to build my business, only to put the money in the bank. In effect, progressive taxation actually benefits me in long run.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:12 pmI will probably get knocked and voted down again, but my opinion is this:
Folks should not be able to endanger their baby and their life by dangerously traveling here in time to give birth to get citizenship rights. We know it is being done as health care professionals will tell you and we only enable this to to on.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:14 pmoblaskins says:
I see plenty of supossedly “poor” immigrant families who have 2 cars, a big screen tv, and cellphones. The simple reality of the situation is that welfare money is not spent the way it is intended to be
What you mean to say is that you’ve seen Mexican-Americans succeed and earn their own money, and just assumed that they must be misspending welfare money.
Basically all you just did was tell us all about your own racial prejudice.
.
wildweasel says:
Repeal the 14th amendment.
Yes…go for it.
Why do you hate the Consitution?
.
had enough says:
Folks should not be able to endanger their baby and their life by dangerously traveling here in time to give birth to get citizenship rights.
I’d prefer to say they should’t have to.
Yet again, wingnuts pretending there is no immigration enforcement when there’s already plenty.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:22 pmazdem,
What you are saying is pretty ridiculous, even though you’re correct in saying that it gives businesses an incentive to reinvest and thus take a tax deduction. What happens when they reach their maximum allowable deduction? Or (god forbid) they want to actually enjoy some of there profits. Joe small business owner will be able to put money back into his business all he wants, but he won’t be able to take his family on vacation because he won’t have a strong cash flow because he knows he’ll be taxed up the a$$ for it. What you’re essentially saying is that you think the government knows what businesses should do with their money better than the people running them. I don’t know about you but I want to have control of what I make.
On top of this, what about those of us who don’t have a business and are simply working professionals who can’t escape high tax rates through large amounts of deductions?
July 29th, 2010 at 4:24 pmElBruce,
No Im referring to immigrant families who hide their true income and still take advantage of the welfare system. It has nothing to do with racial prejudice. Very typical of someone who’s ignorant of the situation to resort to calling me a racist
July 29th, 2010 at 4:28 pmAs for living 8-10 people per household,I will admit that is a common occurrence (although illegal in most areas) however, all this is irrelevant because the point is THEYRE NOT SUPOSSED TO BE HERE.
There are also legal immigrants, who sometimes shelter their undocumented relatives, and I’m just curious how YOU tell the difference? I’m sure you don’t just walk up and ask them their status, or dig through their mail. I’m getting a whiff of racism from your posts, since you’re lumping all immigrants together, and acting as if they are all undocumented.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:35 pmNo Im referring to immigrant families who hide their true income and still take advantage of the welfare system.
Again, how do you prove they didn’t earn the money? Or that they aren’t legally here?
You’re getting a little scattershot in your denunciations.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:37 pmI don’t know about you but I want to have control of what I make.
Boo. Hoo. Your taxes goes to something you don’t approve of.
Get in line.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:39 pmbarfly,
Ive made it very clear in previous posts that I am referring to illegal immigrants. Immigration built America and it is part of the American spirit, I have no problem with those who wait to get into this country legally, in fact I embrace the fact that America is still a place people aspire to come to. Where I draw the line is when people disregard our laws, skip the decade long waiting list and come to our country illegally and abuse our tolerance and our generosity
July 29th, 2010 at 4:43 pmAgain, how do you prove they didn’t earn the money? Or that they aren’t legally here?
Who welfare checks go to is a matter of public record. Its easy to go verify that government money goes to illegal immigrants
July 29th, 2010 at 4:46 pm#166 oblaskins- First, maximum allowable deductions. Businesses and corporations can take capital improvements off their taxes over a period of years, not all in one year. This allows them to write off a large amount, if not all, of those improvements.
Second, even with our progressive tax system, our companies pay less in taxes than most other nations businesses. While an individual has less control over deductions (and probably will pay more percentage wise), corporations and businesses have myriad deductions they can take to reduce their tax burden.
Third, please don’t put words in my mouth. I’m not saying government should decide what business should do with their money. Businesses will determine what they do with their money, and what’s in their best interest. Government actually helps them in hundreds of ways, because strong businesses mean a strong economy, and that is in everyone’s interest.
And finally, I doubt that people making more than $250k net won’t be able to take their kids to the movie or McDonalds. And working professionals who make more than that (and don’t have the deductions) can probably still find time and money to sip a martini on the beach at Cannes.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:51 pmazdem,
Not being a tax attorney, businesses can only take deductions on assets over a period of time if they A) Depreciate them, which they can only do as long as it is a non-revenue generating item if I’m not mistaken or B) section 179 them which is capped at something around 150,000 a year. My point being that it would be difficult to be generating cash while writing off most tax expenses
Just because other countries have high tax rates on their companies is no reason to inflate ours.
Our government does little to “help” businesses. The myriad of government imposed regulations and mandates have made the United States an increasingly difficult country to do business in (hence outsourcing)
Someone making 250k net is most likely not your average working professional. Those who our tax system is hardest on are middle-upper middle class families making less the 250k gross.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:11 pmMizzD!kkkless doesn’t realize that much of the poor pay the property taxes of the rich because they rent, or that they pay more relative to their incomes? ROTFL! Shokkker!
MizzD!kkkless, dumbest of the dumphukkks.
oblaskins says:
Most likely not, if you are making more money, you probably have a more expensive morgage and are paying the same percentage of you income for your house (albeit, a bigger house).
Complete bullsh!t. If you believe demographically people who are making 100 million a year are spending 40 million a year on their mortgage you’re smoking crack.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:14 pmoblaskins, just because companies pay less on taxes than they did a few decades ago is no reason to say that’s a good idea. Why should get the rights of citizenship including spending on elections and not have to bear their fair share of the tax burden?
We had greater economic growth in the US when companies paid a higher percentage of taxes, so you can’t argue lower taxes produce economic growth. The facts don’t back it up.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:16 pmoblaskins, the concept of an “illegal alien” is relatively recent to our nation as “non-whites” began to come here. It’s racist in its inception, and racism is what protects it. If you defend it, you by nature are defending racism.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:18 pmwelfare is a red herring oblaskins. illegals add much more to the economy than they take from it. that’s a documented fact.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:20 pmWhy should get the rights of citizenship including spending on elections and not have to bear their fair share of the tax burden?
I certainly feel that everyone including corporations should pay their fair share of taxes. What I am saying is that we should not impose an unfair burden of the share on a group which is what the progressive scale does.
We had greater economic growth in the US when companies paid a higher percentage of taxes, so you can’t argue lower taxes produce economic growth. The facts don’t back it up.
Feel free to elaborate, because according to my facts you’re wrong.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:22 pmBut 95% of corporations pay taxes on less than 5% of their income. To argue that corporations have an unfair burden is ridiculously indigenous. In fact because corporations pay so little in taxes, the “lower and middle class” working Americans pay far more taxes relative to their ability to burden them.
The progressive scale is there to prevent those that have resources to force those that don’t to effectively be burdened unfairly. The “flat tax” retards want to push a disproportionate burden on the poor relative to their income and wealth.
No, princess, you don’t have facts, and you are completely wrong because of that. You’re wrong, because you’re uninformed, not because you have any “facts”.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:26 pmwelfare is a red herring oblaskins. illegals add much more to the economy than they take from it. that’s a documented fact.
Where are your facts to back this up? Because being from California I know that the state spends nearly $18 Billion a year paying healthcare and education costs alone for illegal immigrants and their children. If you can prove to me that they put this much back then fair enough, though I highly doubt it since someone who undocumented by definition does not pay income taxes. until you have some proof stop making dubious claims.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:28 pmCite your facts princess, and a reliable resource – not Cato or Heritage or one of the lying sack of sh!t righting resources. And prepared to be pummeled..
July 29th, 2010 at 5:29 pmWaiting… tick, tock, princess…
July 29th, 2010 at 5:33 pmBut 95% of corporations pay taxes on less than 5% of their income.
The average corporate profit is only around 4-5% anyway, of this much is converted to dividends for stockholders which is taxed at a lower rate as capital gains.
I don’t see how a “flat” tax rate imposes an unfair burden on the “poor” as everyone would be paying the same percentage relative to their income. Coupled with a VAT this would discourage tax evasion, simplify our tax code, and increase national revenue.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:36 pmSince we both know you don’t have any facts, I’ll help break it out for you.
1) The highest estimates are half what you claim.
2) Those estimates had to include “legal children” from families with illegals to pump up the costs to that level. A deception you say? From Conservatives? Shokkker!
3) Those estimates listed the whole costs to educate children, but forgot to include the federal contributions to that cost. Despite the fact that the GAO estimates that as much as 3/4ths of illegals pay full taxes including social security and medicare they’ll never collect.
Please, when you’re ready cite your source and I’ll be happy to smack them down for you…
July 29th, 2010 at 5:37 pmoblaskins says:
The average corporate profit is only around 4-5% anyway
No retard, read it again. 95% of companies pay taxes on less than 5% of their income, not pay 5% of their income in taxes. Illiterate much?
That’s right princess. They pay taxes on a lower percent of their income than they claim as profit? How is that possible you ask? Because “profit” and “taxable income” are two different accounting numbers… Ain’t accounting fun?
July 29th, 2010 at 5:39 pmhttp://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm
$10.5 Billion in 2004, I’ll try to find something a little more recent for you sweetheart but that should tide you over in the meantime
July 29th, 2010 at 5:40 pmoblaskins says:
I don’t see how a “flat” tax rate imposes an unfair burden on the “poor” as everyone would be paying the same percentage relative to their income.
LOL! I knew you were one of those flat tax retards based on your posts! So predictable. So retarded.
Your inability to “see” doesn’t make your ignorance any more relevant.
Go educate yourself, or beg me nicely and I’ll explain why the rich want a flat tax. Ok princess?
July 29th, 2010 at 5:41 pmoblaskins, so you spewed 18 billion out of your @ss without any “facts” or “resources” to back it up? Shokkker!
I’ve seen that 2004 analysis, and it’s crap. See my critique from above. That “study” has all of the flaws I mentioned and more.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:42 pmBecause “profit” and “taxable income” are two different accounting numbers… Ain’t accounting fun?
I read it correctly, gross profit and “taxable income” are the same numbers dipshit. Anyone who’s taken an accounting course knows that
July 29th, 2010 at 5:43 pmYou mean RINO Lindsey Graham may actually grow a pair?
July 29th, 2010 at 5:45 pmNo the $18 Billion is actually from Heritage, which is one of the leading think tanks in the country (and for which I happened to have interned for) though because you’re too arrogant to accept anyone else’s POV I looked for an alternate source.
as for your critique:
1) Highest estimates are actually in the $25 Billion range
2) Even if children of illegal immigrants were born here, their education stills factors into the total cost because they shouldn’t have been
3) Federal contributions are negligible, the state bears the vast majority of these expenses. And I’ll believe those GAO estimates when I see something to back them up
And yes sweetheart why don’t you explain to me why the rich (i.e. middle class) want a flat tax. In the meantime, feel free to cite any source to back up any of your ignorant babble that doesn’t come from some moveon.org blog
July 29th, 2010 at 5:52 pm#181 oblaskins- pardon me for seeming to come at you all the time, but it’s fun having an intelligent conversation without all the name calling.
I can’t speak for California, but there are numerous studies here in Arizona (one in the Arizona Republic just last Sunday) that deal with the cost/benefit ratio of undocumented workers (illegal aliens). UW’s actually do pay income taxes. If their employer believes them to be legal, the employer collects income and SS taxes from their paychecks and deposits it in the bank. Currently, the United States Treasury has over 65 billion dollars in nonreturnable taxes, as UW’s don’t file tax returns. Even those who receive their pay in cash still buy things, pay rent, buy food, and provide a multiplier effect to the dollars they spend in the local economy.
The Arizona Republic considered health care, taxes, schools, social services and such in their article. The impact on schools, for instance, was negligible, as the infrastructure and maintenance of the school is not dictated by the number of students. On health care, UW’s were far less likely to use it because of their immigration status, and fear of being deported. Emergency rooms are the last resort not only of UW’s, but of millions of people who can’t afford health insurance, regardless of their nationality. Again, the hospital infrastructure and maintenance are fixed costs as well. Also, many of those children in the schools (and patients in the hospital) are US citizens, whether their parents are or not.
Many studies only count the costs of UW’s, and not what they contribute to our economy. I’ll bet that there are studies (check Google) in California which deal with both.
Good luck.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:56 pmWho welfare checks go to is a matter of public record. Its easy to go verify that government money goes to illegal immigrants.
With a court order. But since you didn’t get one (or you would have mentioned it) I’m assuming you can’t tell the difference, and are just going by their accents and the color of their skin.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:57 pmNo, dipsh!t, gross profit is the net sales – cost of goods sold.
Educate yourself princess, before spouting off…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_%28accounting%29
The problem is that profit numbers are heavily manipulated to reduce what is “taxable income” versus “earned income”.
This is why it’s sad corporations pay taxes on so little of their income.
You are right about one thing, you are no tax accountant!
July 29th, 2010 at 5:58 pmoblaskins says:
No the $18 Billion is actually from Heritage, which is one of the leading think tanks in the country
No, they’re one of the leading right wing propaganda outlest in the country. They’re known for deception, bias, unscientific methods and partisan hit pieces. This is no exception. They are nothing but dishonest sh!tbags.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:59 pmoblaskins says:
No the $18 Billion is actually from Heritage, which is one of the leading think tanks in the country (and for which I happened to have interned for) though because you’re too arrogant to accept anyone else’s POV I looked for an alternate source.
That would be the same Heritage that was trumpeting Saddam’s non-existent WMD’s?
That Heritage?
July 29th, 2010 at 5:59 pmThat would be the same Heritage that was trumpeting Saddam’s non-existent WMD’s?
I wasn’t there for that haha
July 29th, 2010 at 6:03 pmoblaskins says:
1) Highest estimates are actually in the $25 Billion range
Yet they pay in 30 billion in income taxes, 7 billion in SSI insurance, 5 billion in state taxes, 4.5 billion in gas taxes…
oblaskins says:
2) Even if children of illegal immigrants were born here, their education stills factors into the total cost because they shouldn’t have been
They aren’t illegal, to claim they are is disingenuous and exactly the sort of dishonest Heritage and the right wing extremists are known for.
oblaskins says:
3) Federal contributions are negligible,
Wrong, they pay in an estimated 30 billion in federal income taxes, 7 billion in SSI insurance. How much money do you think the federal government gives to educate each child in California. Negligible? ROTFL! Wow you’re a real dumphukkk!
oblaskins says:
the state bears the vast majority of these expenses.
That’s what heritage claims? Or you claim? Because the facts say something different.
oblaskins says:
And I’ll believe those GAO estimates when I see something to back them up
What, you know how to find heritage bullsh!t, but not actual facts from the government? Shokkker!
July 29th, 2010 at 6:06 pmpardon me for seeming to come at you all the time, but it’s fun having an intelligent conversation without all the name calling.
Thank You, I enjoy the debate also. I’ll respond to your comment and all others later aimed at myself later. Having spent the majority of my work day on this I need to take a break but feel free to check back later for a response.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:06 pmoblaskins says:
I wasn’t there for that haha
Apparently you’re not here for this debate either, considering how lame your posts are.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:07 pmSo I handed your @ss to you and you’re leaving? Shokkker!
Educate yourself next time before you get here. Your uneducated lame posts are just boring…
July 29th, 2010 at 6:07 pm#195- just the bleepn facts. You may have noticed that since we started having this conversation, we’ve heard nothing from our usual trolls (Martha V., Onlooker, etc.)
I respect your opinions, and your right to express them. But I don’t have any real problem with oblaskins defending his position, which he has done with some grace and intelligence. That’s not to say I agree with all that he says.
I’d like to ask one thing of you. Please stop calling anyone who disagrees with you “dipshit”, “princess”, “spewed”, “crap”, “retarded”. Argue with the ideas and don’t make it into a personal attack.
Otherwise, this is one of the better discussions I’ve seen on this site in some time.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:14 pmProfessor of Law Francine Lipman writes that the belief that illegal migrants are exploiting the US economy and that they cost more in services than they contribute to the economy is “undeniably false”. Lipman asserts that “undocumented immigrants actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services” and “contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs.”
Game, Set, match.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:16 pmazdem says:
Thanks for your concern.
Seen too many trolls start with what appears to be a desire to debate. Always the same. Either a libertard, a flat tax moron, a hardcore “warrior/true conservative believer” or a religious nutjob. It’s always the same.
You might get one semi-cogent thread out of them before they crash and burn into a fulltime troll.
No thanks. I’ve been down that road too many times.
You want to be polite, I say go for it.
Me, I’ll stick to smacking around the trolls in the only way they deserve…
July 29th, 2010 at 6:24 pmazdem, you want a great conversation, lets talk about something and have a real one. The trolls are useless sh!tbags.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:25 pmjust the bleepn facts- I imagine you and I, judging from your previous posts, would probably agree on about 95%+ of our opinions. But I look at it this way with someone like oblaskins. Unlike Martha V (a true parody troll) or Onlooker, Mr. Duke, etc. (who are here only to disrupt the thread, which they do very successfully), oblaskins was at least willing to argue his position fairly clearly, and I did not see him as a troll. I encourage those people to comment here. As long as we stay civil, maybe we can bring them back from the “dark side”.
Like you, I don’t respond well when attacked personally. So I just respond to what is being discussed and piss the hell out of them because I don’t react.
Thanks for the conversation.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:39 pmoblaskins says:
No Im referring to immigrant families who hide their true income and still take advantage of the welfare system.
There aren’t enough of those to get your panties in a twist over. The only reason to bring that up at all is playing racist dog-whistle politics.
.
oblaskins says:
Ive made it very clear in previous posts that I am referring to illegal immigrants. Immigration built America and it is part of the American spirit
If you believed that, you’d support open immigration and amnesty.
.
oblaskins says:
Who welfare checks go to is a matter of public record. Its easy to go verify that government money goes to illegal immigrants
Then do so, table that claim until you’ve brought back your proof.
I’m sure that some does. Statistically, it would be impossible to bring it to zero. The question is whether it’s a significant problem or just a “Southern Strategy” style political ploy.
.
oblaskins says:
Our government does little to “help” businesses.
Breaking: GOP Filibusters Small Business Bill After Criticizing Dems For Delay
We know who’s fault that is.
.
oblaskins says:
Because being from California I know that the state spends nearly $18 Billion a year paying healthcare and education costs alone for illegal immigrants and their children.
Citation, please?
Every hour of labor someone puts in adds the amount of its work product to the GDP. Immigrants work harder than just about any other group I’ve ever seen. And they also pay a great many kinds of taxes. They can apply for some kinds of benefits, but not all. Meaning that on average, they put in more work and take out less benefits than the typical citizen.
But even if everything you said is true, that would just be an argument for amnesty and open immigration. We’re already doing everything we reasonably can to catch and deport illegal immigrants. To do any more in terms of enforcement would start to infringe on the rights of everybody else. The only thing left to do is to legalize them.
.
azdem says:
But I look at it this way with someone like oblaskins. Unlike Martha V (a true parody troll) or Onlooker, Mr. Duke, etc. (who are here only to disrupt the thread, which they do very successfully), oblaskins was at least willing to argue his position fairly clearly, and I did not see him as a troll. I encourage those people to comment here. As long as we stay civil, maybe we can bring them back from the “dark side”.
I also would like to applaud oblaskins for presenting the conservative position on the subject coherently and rationally. We could use more of that around here. Many of the poo-flinging trolls just make conservatives look worse than anything I could say.
But while I think I’m right and can be out-argued, it seems a bit presumptuous to think that we can make him change allegiances…
July 29th, 2010 at 7:20 pmElBruce
I agree. A reasonable and sincere conservative is RARE at TP. We should welcome them and pummel them in a good natured way with factual reality in a context of mutual respect
July 29th, 2010 at 7:57 pmThis is what’s known as worshiping at the alter of teabagger political correctness to save yourself from being teabagged in the next primary.
July 29th, 2010 at 7:58 pmFollow the tenets of the Constitution. No, scrap some of the amendments. But never the second amendment. I can never get it straight whether the GOP respects the Constitution or wants to gut it. They can’t have it both ways. Personally, I think they want everyone to follow the parts of the Constitution that deprive ordinary citizens of rights and scrap everything that would work in Joe Schmoe’s favor.
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I am usually non-violent, however, should neocons attempt repeals of the 13th and 14th amendments that gave African Americans the rights of citizenry I am LOCKING AND LOADING!
July 29th, 2010 at 8:53 pmWhat is with all the furror to change the Constitution all of a sudden (admittedly, perhaps a rhetorical question).
IN all seriousness, though, can anyone remember a time when there was such a strong move to discard the Constitution (while saying that the Constitution is an inalterable sacred writ) ?
Tenthers
Thirteenthers
Repeal the 14th
not to mention indirects such as extraordinary rendition to repeal Habeus Corpus; Do away with establish law such as requiring warrants for search and seizure; do away with Miranda; etc.
July 29th, 2010 at 9:29 pm… trust me, this is a BAD idea. There is no way it could end well. At best, and this is best, you have a racially stratified social order that is suppose to offer ‘limited citizenship’ but will more likey result in refugee camps on the Mexican border.
Don’t these poltico have handlers that have at least a bit of experaince in these international matters to tell them these things before he steps on his own dink?
July 29th, 2010 at 9:35 pmFun qoute from a ‘American Thinker’ writer Selwyn Duke. (unsure if there’s and realtion to our Duke or David)
Most of those arriving legally are, using moderns’ typical yardstick, good, hardworking people. And illegals are much the same as those arriving legally. Another way of saying this is that those arriving legally are much the same as illegals. And that is the point. They usually come for economic advancement, not to become American. They often expect to have their cultural peculiarities accommodated, as opposed to doing what the Romans do. Their allegiance often lies elsewhere. And the vast majority vote for leftists.
This, in particular the parts bolded, tell me that this guy has no idea waht he’s talking about.
July 29th, 2010 at 9:54 pmNo offense to your country or anything, but why on earth would anyone WANT to move to America if it wasen’t for financial gain?
And how exactly do illegal immegrants vote and why would recent legal immegrants vote left anyways?
If the Republicans didnt do everything in their power to piss off the Hispanics then they’d be a huge voting bloc in their favour.
PolicyNorth says:
No offense to your country or anything, but why on earth would anyone WANT to move to America if it wasen’t for financial gain?
That’s why most of the past immigrants did. But even so, immigrants appreciate the U.S. far more than people who’ve been born here. Even the most fervently nationalistic conservative doesn’t really care about the freedom and opportunity inherent in the American Dream nearly as much as someone who’s newly nationalized.
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July 30th, 2010 at 8:13 amI never the second amendment. estetik ameliyat I can never get it straight vajina estetiği whether the GOP respects the Constitution or wants to gut it. They can’t have it both ways. meme buyutme Personally, I rinoplasti think they estetik burun want everyone to follow the burun ameliyatları parts of the Constitution that deprive ordinary citizens of rights göğüs büyütme and scrap everything that would work in Joe Schmoe’s favor.sigara bırakma
July 30th, 2010 at 9:34 am“I’m a practical guy, but when you go forward, I don’t want 20 million more 20 years from now,” he said.
20 million more of whom? Brown people? That’s what he means. He’s afraid that America may become a true melting pot. He and many others are afraid that white people may not have a huge majority.
What are you talking about? As of 2010 white people ARE the minority now.
July 30th, 2010 at 12:55 pm218. In refereance to your take that the newest immigrants are the proudest and happiest with thier new country. The choice is the big thing of course, America does offer fat more oppertunities for almost everyone. Not only financial as it offers to peopel of the first world, but also personal freedom in the third.
Thats’ very insightful and admitingly I have nothing to say agaisnt it. But I do feel that it is shifting away from the choice for a better life in intristicite values and rather a calculated play for tangible wealth.
Those migrants that are so mocked and shamed tend to have to risk their lives to get to America, sometiem fleeing places where thier lives are forfit. So they really should appreciate it more then someone who was born in the back 40 and grew up fearing the governemnt for the taxes it extorts rather then the deathsquads it funds.
But then I take a look at a place like Arizona (not a very good place to go if ones has bad memmories of police checkpoints based on what one looks like) and the ever incressing ‘us and them’ xenophobia I think that the cultural shock in Americas’ ‘fresh of the boats’ is shifting more and more towards the Irish experiance of the 1830s rather then the brave new world of the 1920s.
July 30th, 2010 at 1:14 pmWhat are you talking about? As of 2010 white people ARE the minority now.
I’d recomend Graham moves up here, but we don’t want him and he couldn’t pass the citizenship test anyways :D
July 30th, 2010 at 1:15 pmHa, that’s actually a really good suggestion. Thanks so much for this!
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