And above all, we saw a new generation emerge — a generation that uses their own creativity and talent and technology to call for a government that represented their hopes and not their fears, a government that is responsive to their boundless aspirations.
… it was the moral force of non-violence….
That’s Obama speaking Friday. I’ve been asked by a couple of ClimateProgress regulars if there are any lessons for climate hawks in the incredible Egyptian revolution.
For instance, the 25-year-old Ian of “What should Ian do with his life?” fame asks
I’m just wondering if you think it would be worth discussing Egypt in the thread this weekend. I could be very wrong but it seems like it might give people hope to change things here in the states. Maybe its possible to focus some of that energy into grassroots efforts on climate change. Huge, sustained, passionate rallies seem like they work now. Is that possible in regards to action on climate change?
Of course, the Egyptians were suffering under a repressive regime for decades, one that had taken away their basic human rights and horribly mismanaged the economy. It’s much easier to motivate collective action around that than, say, avoiding future misery for billions of people, even if that action also has an unquestionable moral force.
Still, I ask you: Does Egypt hold lessons for climate hawks?
Related Post:
Previous in TP Climate Progress
Language Intelligence: Lessons on persuasion from Jesus, Shakespeare, Lincoln, and Lady Gaga
Yes i think it does hold lessons for us. I also think if we are going to change things here, we have to do the same thing. Get it the streets and demand our basic human rights to clean air, food and water. The bigger question is, will we? I’m willing to take off work, or devote my vacation to the cause. But how many people would? I’m afraid not enough to make a difference. We live in a hopeless sea of drones glued to their tv’s.
While there are stark differences between the situation in Egypt and that here in the US, there are similarities. An elite who are so disconnected from physical reality that they believe they control history. This is the Koch Bros. / Grover Norquist side of Washington politics. The real question is whether we have the ability to put 200K people on the National Mall in Washington rather than the Great Mall in Minnesota. I rather doubt it.
Too many of those who rightfully celebrate the opportunity that the people of Egypt have to create a new history view science as something too simple to bother with. Too many have listened too long to Noam Chomsky.
That is an attitude as dangerously misleading as is Ayn Rand’s economics. If the Libertarian bent of one end of the political spectrum can’t stand our solutions and the Chomsky / Liberal end of the spectrum can’t even understand the question, then I somehow doubt that there is enough outrage to generate an Egyptian model public protest.
Hit the streets? I note this from The Nation:
“Calling Out the Climate Cranks”
Peter Rothberg
February 11, 2011
http://www.thenation.com/blog/158509/calling-out-climate-cranks
“The Nation is partnering in a new initiative, galvanized by the magazine’s environmental correspondent and my friend Mark Hertsgaard, to name and shame the climate cranks sabotaging our nation’s response to climate change. The coalition includes the Sierra Club, 350.org, Kids vs. Global Warming, the Chesapeake Climate Action Network and Grist.
“On Tuesday, February 15, Mark (author of the new book HOT: Living Through the Next Fifty Years on Earth) and supporters will head to Capitol Hill, the Fox TV bureau, the Chamber of Commerce and other hotbeds of climate denial. The goal? Put the climate cranks on the spot and make them explain—on camera and in front of kids—why they have condemned the young people of “Generation Hot” (as Mark calls them), to spending the rest of their lives coping with the hottest climate in human history.”
The story is about people taking back control of there country. If we get a million or two people to go sit at the mall in DC and not leave until we have a carbon tax, then we will get a carbon tax. It is not something we can just email in. Warm bodies actually have to show up and participate.
Big changes occur in bad economic times. This can be bad or good. Americas greatest generation did good coming out of a depression. Germany not so good. After WWII with the rest of the world having to rebuild Americans made 15 times in wages over the Europeans. The problem is the boomers got it in our minds we were better than everyone else and deserved all the previous generation gave us. If we were not in a recession health care and climate change would not be so controversial. So it boils down to class war and greed. The rich who can afford the propaganda machine and can buy the GOP to tell people they deserve more against the people of this country that actually do the work that allows the rich to make their millions. The best way they can do that is to form teams. Like we have to blame someone so let’s blame immigrants. Or the educated of this country are only book smart and street smart people know more about science than scientists. To put it simply the right follows Germany’s path out of recession and progressives follow americas path, or maybe I should say Roosevelt path. As long as we have the freedom of speech and the right to have our votes count, we should end up OK. Its just a bumpy road.
Malcreado, sadly I think that a million people sitting in support of a carbon tax can and would be ignored, especially by the current Congress.
Which doesn’t mean they should try, and keep trying. That may also be a lesson from Egypt-don’t give up, no matter how hard ‘they’ want you to give up.
Imho, the lesson we could learn from Egypt is persistence and numbers. The thing I was struck by in the media coverage time and again was their stated surprise that peaceful protests of hundreds of thousands lasted day in and day out, 24-7. In the US, it might have been an afternoon rally or a two hour evening protest -because we are SO distracted with our e-toys. They didn’t have to get home to see Dancing with the Stars… Egyptians protested largely for insane food prices and shortages so it affected every family personally. As long as our stores have 32 kinds of mustard, 50 brands of aspirin, etc, etc, ad nauseum, and shelves stocked to overflowing, and gas is under $5 per, there won’t likely be passionate committed protests on anything.
Unless we take climate chaos to the streets in massive numbers (remember the 60s?), the media will hardly glance our way. They want the big numbers to justify their time/expense. But most of us want someone else in the streets so we can, uh, play with our e-toys. Passing the buck.
Passion. Compassion. Compunction – for our hearts to be so pierced with the fears from what climate chaos holds for our grandkids that we. cannot. sit. still.
Do passionate scientists exist? Can we/they step outside our comfort zones to the streets? Or will we watch from our e-toys?
If not now, when?
How about Mother’s Day for starters. That’s plenty of time to organized with local scouts, church and business folk…
Here’s a quote I found recently:
“Earth Day is beginning to remind me of Mother’s Day, a commercial occasion upon which you buy flowers for the person who, every other day of the year, cleans up after you. Guilt assuaging. Trivializing. Actually dangerous. All mothers have their breaking points. Mother Earth does not soften hers with patience or forgiveness or sentimentality. – the late Donella Meadows, adjunct professor at Dartmouth College, “Earth Day Plus Thirty, As Seen By The Earth”
I think it’s a little too early to draw any concrete ‘therefores’ with regard to Egypt, whether it be in the context of pro-democracy or effective uprising for climate legislation.
Outside of the Egyptian military, there really is a vaccuum of sorts as to ‘what is going to happen next’. It could certainly be a beautiful thing that follows…or something even worse.
Let’s say the uprisings were in response to an unsatisfactory economic/food-price/etc experience, in addition to tiring of a regime that lost touch with its subjects. The protestors wouldn’t back down until the regime was gone and they were ‘free’…But now, free to do what?
However, their methods certainly got them over the biggest hurdle…so that can speak to the rest of us…IF there is a single ‘biggest hurdle’ that needs to be overcome. What is this ‘biggest hurdle’, that when removed, will allow citizens to find their way without having to have the whole plan for what follows (as we see in Egypt)?
Is it a tax on carbon?
If so…I wonder how many people would assemble at the National Mall who will not disperse, will not leave, etc. etc., until the government agrees to tax thusly?
To me…the ‘one biggest hurdle’, in this context, should be something that the President himself can do…where there wouldn’t be a check or balance on his authority to do it (like Mubarik stepping down). Is there even such a thing in the climate context that can be done, such that all future things can follow from it? We’ve all talked about taxing carbon…but can that simply be brought about by demanding one person (or the military) do one thing?
For me, have hope, change can happen quickly if a clean line can be established and people are willing to risk, alot, to to step over it; several hundred thousand people, 18 days.
Ian makes a good point in highlighting the sustained nature of the Tahrir Square protests. The rally there wasn’t a one day event – they stayed for 18 straight days. Participation ebbed and flowed, of course, but there was always a core group present. That persistence is something that I think has often been missing from the grassroots climate movement in the U.S.
The media has rightfully pointed out the role that Facebook/Twitter played in the protests, which is probably exciting to those in the U.S. who have been pointing to social media as a valuable tool for promoting grassroots movements in the future. But the important distinction in Egypt was that they used social media to support the organizing of a physical demonstration, whereas in the U.S. we tend to sign the online petition, click the facebook like button, and move on with the day. As Malcreado says in the first comment “it is not something we can just email in.”
There are good reasons why it’s difficult to pull off a multi-day protest rally in the U.S., let alone an open-ended multi-day protest. Most of us have jobs or school to go to on Monday morning, and since the United States is very large it’s nearly impossible to get everyone in one place for a significant amount of time.
So here’s an idea. How about rolling climate protests in one major U.S. city at a time, on Saturdays, one weekend after another? The locations would be geographically distributed – Portland, DC, Chicago, New York, San Francisco, Denver, etc – but limited to roughly 10 cities. So if DC was the first protest, 10 weeks later it would be their turn again. And 10 weeks later, again. And again and again, each time getting larger.
It’s just one idea, but at least it could begin to establish a persistent nature to the protests.
Sitting in the mall clearly doesn’t count for much. Surrounding the capital when congress is in session and making it extremely difficult or imposible for congressmen to leave. Having thousands of people standing by to replace the thousands that get arrested would get everyones attention, in USA and around the globe. Civil disobedience; demand that both houses of congress debate and pass AGW legislation now, but don’t dictate the legislation.
I agree with those above who have concluded that it’s time to hit the streets, and let the gangsters in charge know that they now have an angry popular opposition. In addition to public protests, the boycott tool has been underutilized, partly because the Big Green groups are afraid to offend any of their donors. I have letters from them to that effect when some of us tried to implement a Koch/GP boycott- their excuses were really pathetic. Formerly edgy organizations have become cowardly and compromised.
We need a new organization. I like 350.org, but would prefer a voice that is more strident, and not averse to confrontation. McKibben appears to be moving in that direction, and the times demand it. It could be 350 or a new group; it doesn’t matter as long as whoever steps up is not afraid to identify the enemy. This will resonate, and the focus group researched strategy that the timid point to- “talk about a positive move to clean energy, don’t criticize”- is wrong and out of date. A whole lot of us are frustrated and pissed off. This is the kind of energy that succeeded in Egypt, and can do likewise here.
be it healthcare, pollution, finance, war or law enforcement, our country is clearly shoveling cash at bloated dangerous parasites, but our political leadership is happy with what it’s got and won’t shake the tree that way.
Let’s not forget the part MSM played in Egypt. Do we think they’d cover demonstrations on climate change with the same vigor and honesty?
>You reenforce and provide suport to consolidate action in tackling global warming.
*************************
Its a moral issue….
http://moralground.com/mission/
An affirmation of basic moral principles:
>Yes, it’s wrong to leave behind a ransacked and dangerously unstable world.
>Yes, our lives must be an expression of what we most deeply value.
>Yes, we can and must make conscience-driven choices about how we spend our money and time.
>Yes, we must provide a safe and thriving future for our children.
>Yes, tending to the Earth and reversing climate destruction are a moral, spiritual and religious imperative.
a revolutionary spirit in the america now means saying no to rich friends, even helping them unravel their dreams from their socially-damaging behavior. interventions are less fun than risking a beating by cops.
…the focus group researched strategy that the timid point to- “talk about a positive move to clean energy, don’t criticize”- is wrong and out of date.
I agree. And David Roberts (Grist) has been persuasively making a similar argument (http://www.grist.org/article/2011-01-28-clean-energy-not-substitute-for-climate-change).
And I also agree with Mike Roddy’s point that we need to speak more stridently. I remember the 10/10/10 event that I attended in DC, and at one point we were weakly trying to start up some sort of nursery rhyme warm-up “chant” – I don’t mean to disrespect the wonderful people that were involved in the event, but when you’re talking about an issue that could potentially ruin the lives of hundreds of millions of people – including your own life, and your children’s – something like “HELL NO, WE WON’T GO” seems like it would be much more appropriate than “a b c, 1 2 3, please give us somewhat cleaner e-lec-tric-i-ty, please, when you have time, thank you, if you don’t mind too much”.
That doesn’t mean that we should be violent, of course. Along with the Egyptian movement, the heroes of the American Civil Rights movement really show the way.
I do agree it is time to take to the streets. That is the lesson we should learn. The sooner the better because the longer people wait the higher the chance it will become violent. The choice of violence has to do with how deeply personal it becomes and is a different threshold for every person. So I look at it as we should go to the streets now to prevent violence later. I never considered myself radicaL, but I do this for my children and grandchildren. Like most I will take more personal risks for them than I would for myself.
When we are ready to secure our future, then we will make the changes necessary. So far there is very little indication that humans plan to live on earth much more than 50 years from now . (OK 100 years)
The binary decision is simple, choose one: Ourselves or Our Posterity. i.e. we watch and enjoy life now, or decide to change living now to enable a future. Right now we are in this wishy washy mode of trying to do both.
Delusional thinking and willful ignorance is a dangerous distraction.
Interesting times ahead. So kids, stay awake and stay healthy.
I like ZS’s idea of rolling out climate change rallys in major cities throughout the nation. maybe Mother’s Day could be the start. But I also suggest that each of our state capitals would also be a good location. In Montana, we have a rally scheduled for President’s Day. The rally is not just about global warming, but about all our–related–environmental issues which are under serious threat by our legislature. scheduled for President’s Day. The goal is to have 1000 people show up. We may make it. If so, that will be a huge gathering for us and should make some kind of impact while also galvanizing the participants.
One suggestion for grassroots organizing. I am taking a continuing ed class at the University of Montana on “sustainability.” The students (seniors) are motivated and have decided to organize to DO something. We’ll see what happens. These are people of the 60′s activism.
Joe, thanks so much for posting this as a topic.
Already there have been a lot of interesting comments. ZS, I think the idea for rolling protests is great. A few months of protests in different cities that culminate in a massive, enduring protest in DC seems possible.
I understand that people have (justifiable) doubts about large, sustained protests being effective at all, but I think people should keep in mind that nothing works unless we try it. We are running out of time so all options must be exercised, no matter the risk. Remember, what is the result of us not trying? Maybe there are more effective ways to create action on climate change, but those options always work better with leverage in the form of highly visible public support.
So, just assume for a second that huge, sustained rallies would help create action on some level, do you guys think its possible do organize them? Have the events in Egypt given you a spark of hope? If so, how can we leverage that into action? Now we have immediate evidence of success that can be shown to (young) people. I think the Egyptian people have given us a great opportunity that shouldn’t be wasted. I don’t want to let them down.
If anyone from 350.org is reading (Bill McKibben, May Boeve), I hope you guys are considering this as your next action. I want to organize this myself, but no one really listens to me. People listen to you guys, so I hope you and other groups think this could be effective. I’d gladly drive around the country and organize people and sit there for months in Washington if I thought there was a chance of success.
Maybe I’m naive and youthful and misguided. Of course there have been plenty of rallies (even recent ones) throughout US history that haven’t accomplished anything. But maybe we have enough passion out there that people are willing to stick it out and make something happen.
Can we do it?
Answering Ian: We have to do it! By the way, I’m about the same age as you, Ian, and facing many of the same questions, so I’m really happy about your presence here on CP!
There’s an old FDR quote that’s been brought up over and over, but for good reason. He was speaking to a group of reformers:
“I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it.“.
I go back and forth about how hawkish Obama really is, but regardless, we have to make him do it.
Kids v. Global Warming is planning marches in several cities around the country for Mother’s Day, May 8. They will soon have an interactive tool on their website. These are the iMatter Marches. This is a good initial organizing effort,being done with 350.org and many others. Then we need to have demos at the various GOP debates this year and next demanding that e GOP candidates acknowledge climate change as a real problem. Confront the beast on it’s home turf. There is a real chance to make climate a defining issue in the campaign next year, given that there are likely to be more disasters and more evidence in 20 months’ time.
You know what could be powerful, and easy to replicate?
A silent sit-in. Get a big crowd of people, bring giant signs that convey the message, but stay absolutely quiet, to symbolize the lack of a voice for those that will face the brunt of the consequences for our current in-action: our as-yet unborn ancestors.
“The more often a man feels without acting, the less he’ll be able to act. And in the long run, the less he’ll be able to feel.” C.S. Lewis
Absolutely take to the streets and protest!
If Jon Stewart can get 200,000 to the mall to protest against the insanity of Fox News, then it is possible.
People are fed up with Fox, plutocrats, Tea Party fools, the Kochs, the banksters, and a lot more.
Just have to tap into it somehow.
As usual, richard pauli (#19) has a succinct jewel of a comment: “When we are ready to secure our future, then we will make the changes necessary….Right now we are in this wishy washy mode of trying to do both.”
For those that want bodies in the streets worldwide there is already an organization that has done more of this around climate than any group has done for any other environment issue ever: 350.org. Give them your energies.
For those that want to stop sending thousands of dollars to the cranks, deniers and destroyers…get off fossil fuels in your own life. I bet most “climate hawks” give more money to Big Fossil than to groups trying to stop Big Fossil. We can have flying vacations or coral reefs…gasoline burner cars or stable weather…fossil burners to heat our home or the Amazon. Getting to zero fossil pollution as fast as we can is the only solution.
As richard said, when we are ready to do something about it there is plenty we can do.
If Climate Hawks cannot convince people (especially Americans) that manmade GHG are causing global warming and motivate them enough to force politicians (particularly Congress at the moment) to take action then I am afraid Mother Nature ultimately will.
She will do it through that great motivator pain. Increasing severe weather events directly effecting individuals will be followed by associated financial pain through higher food prices, fuel costs and, hence, the costs of everything else. Yes pain in the pocketbook, real or perceived, is a great motivator as we saw in the outcome of last fall’s election.
While I am seeing what I consider extremely rapid changes in the climate, many people who do not observe these changes as closely as I unfortunately do not.
If only Climate Hawks had some irrefutable way of convincing the general population of what an extrapolation of our severe weather events (which I believe will be exponential) will mean in the form of pain in the not-so-distant future.
” 7 generations… make your decisions so that they may have what we enjoy today.”
This brief talk by Chief Oren Lyons is especially meaningful to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6RXlK6uUs8&NR=1
The trigger for Social epiphany, which is what we need here, is difficult to fathom before hand. The Egyptians tolerated a totalitarian regime for many years but arose in mass only when the food prices threatened their daily survival. The problem, as pointed out above, is that the population must now advance half cocked, in that they have no clear direction forward, only that the past did not work for them. This makes the population susceptible to smooth talkers, not necessarily pragmatic solutions. History has shone that if the masses are fed they are easily led. (and will propagate)
Rational thinking appears to be beyond the capacity of at least 30% of the population and perhaps far larger. Will populations around the world be capable of understanding the perils of Climatic Disruption before a personal affront to their individual survival? So far the clear answer is a resounding “NO!” Is that a given? I sure hope not. None the less, I think that there is an opportunity for an articulate leader, with a pure heart, to break the stalemate before total collapse. Was it Gandhi that said, “I must hurry to the head of the crowd so that I can lead my people”?
In the 60′s we brought tens of thousands of people into the streets with a clear mandate, “All you need is Love.” That enlightened movement was easily conscripted by the “moneyed interests” and quickly eviscerated.
Once again a crack in the “power structure” is presented, and I see no reason to limit demonstrations to only the United States as this problem is a world wide dilemma requiring a world wide response.
Fight for a future for the children of all species for all time… A short billion years of evolution demand nothing less.
Two Palms Up.
Leif
The number of responses and the passion is heartening. This fight will not be won til it becomes a moral war. You all are giving me hope. Not that I want this blog to go to radicals its fun to vent once in awhile.
An old story:
There used to be an old farmer who used mules rather than horses to work his fields. Now, mules are celebrated for being ornery, and this farmer had one that seemed to break all records for orneriness. No matter what the farmer tried, he simply couldn’t get through to the mule at any level.
One day he heard of a guy over in the next county who had a reputation for being really good at training mules, so he went to his place and asked him if he’d try his hand with the problem mule.
Together they went out to the corral where the stubborn mule was and the “expert” spoke to the mule. Nothing.
So he walked around the mule, patted it a bit, then spoke again. Nothing. So he snapped a shank onto the mule’s halter and tried to lead it. Again, nothing. Then he gave the halter shank a real good yank. Still nothing.
So the expert picked up a stick and hit the mule on the head. Hard. The mule sort of staggered a bit, and then slowly turned its head and looked at his tormentor.
But the mule’s owner was outraged at the cruel action.
“I thought you were an expert mule trainer,” he said. “I thought you knew how to handle mules.”
“I do,” the expert replied. “But first, you’ve got to get their attention.”
Al Jazeera English: Egypt Live Stream http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
When Democracy Weakens
As the throngs celebrated in Cairo, I couldn’t help wondering about what is happening to democracy here in the United States. I think it’s on the ropes. We’re in serious danger of becoming a democracy in name only.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/opinion/12herbert.html?_r=1
Scale back the power of Megalomaniacs like Koch’s
Re: Leif @ 28 – your comment reminded me of my favorite quote from John Seed:
We call upon the spirit of evolution, the miraculous force that inspires rocks and dust to weave themselves into biology. You have stood by us for millions and billions of years-do not forsake us now.
Empower us and awaken in us pure and dazzling creativity. You that can turn scales into feathers, seawater to blood, caterpillars to butterflies, metamorphose our species, awaken in us the powers that we need to survive the present crisis and evolve into more aeons of our solar journey.
Awaken in us a sense of who we truly are: tiny, ephemeral blossoms on the tree of Life.
Make the purposes and destiny of that tree our own purpose and destiny. Fill each of us with love for our true Self, which includes all of the creatures and plants and landscapes of the world. Fill us with a powerful urge for the well-being and continual unfolding of this self. May we speak in all human councils on behalf of the animals and landscapes of the earth.
May we shine with pure inner passion that will spread rapidly through these leaden times. May we all awaken to our true and only nature – none other than the nature of Gaia, this living planet earth.
We call upon the power which sustains the planets in their orbit, that wheels our Milky Way in its 200-million-year spiral, to imbue our personalities and our relationships with harmony, endurance and joy.
Fill us with a sense of immense time so that our brief, flickering lives may truly reflect the work of vast ages past and also millions of years of evolution, whose potential lies in our trembling hands.
– selections from John Seed’s, Thinking Like A Mountain: Towards a Council of All Beings
I heard an interview on NPR, in honor of Black History month, with an elederly lady who in her youth refused to move to the back of the bus as it reached the border with North Carolina. She was arrested for this, before Rosa Parks famously sparked the civil rights movement. I have been thinking about that obscure act of courage – and the bravery of the Eyptian people – and wondering why the American population is allowing the billionaires to pillage all the wealth – all the money and especially all the natural resources, including the ability of nature to absorb pollution – with barely a peep of complaint. I think it has something to do with the teevee. And I wonder what more I should be doing, myself, to stop it.
That’s part of what I wrote today here: http://witsendnj.blogspot.com/2011/02/shattered-illusions.html
I would like to ask though, how many people reading Climate Progress are REALLY interested in doing more than posting comments? Where was everybody last 10/10/10? Where was everybody at the Koch demonstration in January? Why can’t we descend on DC for Earth Day – it’s the obvious time? Jeez, I’ve only had a handful of people willing to publicly announce their adherence to climate science by ordering a climate hawk pin, despite the hubbub of enthusiastic comments about the idea!
Notice, in Egypt, everybody went to Cairo. They didn’t start out marching at their local venue. I’m sure this involved significant dislocation for the people who took time from family, or their job, or who had to travel. The very first demonstrators took the greatest risks. Then more were willing to make that sacrifice, that commitment, and then even more came as there is safety in numbers.
I don’t see it in America. Mostly what I see is meaningless talk.
Wit’s End, I’m definitely sympathetic to your cynicism. The subtle divisions among environmental organizations is also playing a role. For example, even though the big Green groups – Sierra Club, Green Peace, WWF, Friends of the Earth, NRDC, Nature Conservancy, CI, etc – may disagree somewhat on policy, why can’t they coordinate a rally in DC together? Plan a year in advance, work with groups like PowerShift and 350 as well as local orgs, build up some momentum, hell, get Ariana Huffington to pay for some buses to transport people, and create a massive march in DC?
The Egyptian people and Americans are both afflicted by U.S. Imperialism which remains a juggernaut opposed to effective action to address Global Warming. It is clear to me that a Revolution will be required to accomplish all that must be done. To this extent, I admire the Egyptian people for enlarging, in the popular imagination, the “realm of the possible.” Borrowing from the Bangles, I say we should all learn to “Walk like an Egyptian.”
I like the suggestion I read about massive civil disobedience in DC. We need to screw our courage up to the sticking place and become far more troublesome to the Masters of the Universe than we’ve been thus far. They are collectively guilty of Crimes Against Humanity and should be dealt with accordingly.
ZS, a sad but true observation that seems inescapable – there is evidence that many of the major climate, green, conservation and environmental groups seem to be more in competition with each other for foundation and corporate support than they do cooperative.
It’s a disgrace, actually. People contribute to them and volunteer while the paid staff is collecting salaries to preserve their donor base. I’ve also seen instances where the true consequences of pollution and climate change are downplayed to avoid offending sponsors and frightening the constituents.
Somebody needs to scare the people out of their wits or not enough will be accomplished to save this Titanic from going down, and there won’t be any lifeboats.
Boy, am I in a bad mood today…I think I will go out and collect the chicken eggs from the coop now…
Well yeah, I definitely have at least a basic understanding of the complexities that major green groups face in terms of fundraising. And Eric Pooley’s The Climate War places a heavy emphasis on the divide in the environmental community between those who have tried to work with industry (EDF) and those who vehemently disagreed (Greenpeace, Sierra Club to an extent).
It reminds me a bit of divisions within the federal government – people on “the outside” have no idea about the amount of competition that occurs, both intra-Agency and inter-Agency. And when you take a step back and consider it, it’s so, so, SO sad and pathetic, really. Inexcusable.
But it really seems like leaders of the Green organizations can grow up enough to work together to organize a huge rally. Millions of people in the future do not care about how they can’t get along.
I have a couple of times in the last 12 months commented here that important marches on Washington are needed to get Congress’s attention (and even the President’s). But to get their attention, there must be a significant publicity buildup and a simple message. I like the idea put forward by Malcreado, to insist on a carbon tax. The simple message would be a carbon tax or out you will be ousted at the next election.
The publicity build up should emphasize that it is scientists that will take part in the march because of the extreme seriousness of the climate change situation as we see it now.
Unlike Egypt, it doesn’t take courage to march on Washington. But it does take excellent organization skills and considerable money for press conferences, transportation, etc. It will not be spontaneous, but more like a political campaign. Perhaps it would look like a battle between science and and the power of fossil fuel interests. I don’t know whether that is good or bad, but at this point I suspect not many scientists would feel able or willing to partake in such a fight.
A great solar barn raising…
Lots of inspiring posts here and lessons to be learned from the more experienced people. ZS, its awesome to hear from other young people. If there are any other youngsters out there reading this, post something please. Don’t be discouraged by your close friends who don’t care about this. There are plenty of us out there to make something happen. It’s up to us.
I think an important lesson to be learned from Egypt is that we just have to get out there and do it. Once the initial crowds started rolling out then others were inspired to join. I don’t think we need every single American to be on our side. We just need to identify/organize a passionate core group that are willing to start it up.
If you’re out there and feel like you want to act in the wake of Egypt, let us know by posting something. If you’re skeptical, what should we be careful of when trying to capitalize on this (seeming) momentum?
Anyone can feel free to contact me via email to talk more: ianwittenber@gmail.com
Thanks everyone. I think we should give this a try.
This might be one of the more frustrating threads CP has hosted. Because, we all see clearly the difference between our inability, near total absence of an effort, to get millions of people onto the streets, onto the Capitol steps, for days, weeks whatever to break the silence on the coming sixth extinction.
And, what makes our US condition even more difficult to witness is that we would not face tanks, thugs with iron bars, secret police arresting and beating participants. No,we would have a starbucks on every corner to step into to get warm and refreshed. Yet, we cannot even get a big green to join this discussion and hint at what might be possible if their organization(s) threw some time and money into an organizing effort.
There are two straight-on differences between we climate hawks and those courageous revolutionaries throughout Egypt. The majority of them were likely unemployed, and from a monetary sense, had little to lose. We are asking ourselves to risk our family’s livelihood by camping out on the Capitol steps for however long it takes.
The other huge difference between our two populations; Egyptian people knew hardship, torture, media SENSONSHIP (not media manipulation); their backs were pushed to the wall by the regime’s bayonets and had no alternative but to fight back.
Now, those courageous and determined people are sweeping the streets and trying to show the world they are THE GOVERNMENT.
We Americans have no clue that we are the government already. But ask anyone to discuss America’s ills and they won’t waste a minute before they start ranting against that damned gubmnt.
So, Fred Krupp, join the discussion. You’ll be among friends.
John McCormick
First off, I’m really glad people are talking about using popular movements. People on this website complain a lot that our government(s) aren’t being responsive to the climate crisis, which is certainly true- but the thing is, they *won’t* respond unless there’s a lot of pressure from the people. If there’s sufficient demand from the people, it will trump corporate money- it happened with Prohibition, it happened with the establishment of the FDA, it arguably happened with the Vietnam war, and it happened with the EPA. Corporate donor may line the pockets of politicians, but ultimately it’s still the voters that put them in office, and when in doubt, they will yield.
But you need to have a lot of pressure. And it has to be sustained.
If I were trying to organize this, I would definitely try to foster unity between the green groups (as several people have already commented), and I would start raising funds to contract out one of the major advertising agencies (I know the environmental movement has an aversion to Madison Avenue, since it is definitely part of the consumerism establishment, but it really is one of the best way to get the word out to people, and we’d be fools not exploit it). The ideal would be to get as much of persuadable middle on our side, and then eventually we’d even start to peel off some of the conservatives, as well (this may seem unlikely, but per Altemeyer’s studies on Right Wing Authoritarianism, one of the highest desires of RWA individuals is to be perceived as “normal”, and if we make being a climate hawk, or at least climate aware, “normal”, than sheer peer pressure will probably bring a lot them over to our side; Altemeyer actually mentions global climate change explicitly as an example).
But whatever this movement ends up being, it has to be huge, and it has to have longevity.
spacermase, the advertising campaign/madison ave idea is intriguing.
Potentially stupid question: are national tv advertisements allowed to promote specific protests? If so, a good use of Al Gore’s Alliance for Climate Protection’s money would be to purchase some snazzy ads to promote, for example, a huge march on Washington in July 2011. A much better use of money than procuring an ad with Newt Gingrich where he sits on a couch and transparently lies about how he cares about the environment.
Always a good start is to boycott the products from companies who fund the denial of science or who support illegal activities to dent the progress of fighting climate change.
@28, John Levering:
She will do it through that great motivator pain. Increasing severe weather events directly effecting individuals will be followed by associated financial pain through higher food prices, fuel costs and, hence, the costs of everything else. Yes pain in the pocketbook, real or perceived, is a great motivator as we saw in the outcome of last fall’s election.
……
If only Climate Hawks had some irrefutable way of convincing the general population of what an extrapolation of our severe weather events (which I believe will be exponential) will mean in the form of pain in the not-so-distant future.
That’s well intentioned, John, but there’s a danger lurking there if we don’t understand the psychology of propagandists and their ability to mutate their message to best suit the circumstances.
If you think that Republicans are dangerous because they fail to acknowledge the situation, I can guarantee you that they will become even more dangerous when they do acknowledge Global Warming.
This is why. The fossil fuel industry will still be in power with politicians in their pockets and their propaganda noise making machine still intact.
Their (near) future propaganda will consist of the following.
First, when they can no longer deny the obvious, they will be to change their emphasis over to “Natural Global Warming”. This is, of course, used nowadays but in tandem with “Global Cooling” and no warming at all. We will, on the day after tomorrow, hear of NGW exclusively.
There will be nothing new in motivation for this. It will have the effect of not accepting the blame.
The second step will be to offer Geoengineering, already brewing, as the official (pseudo)solution. This, of course will take the onus off the fossil fuel industry, allowing them to pollute in perpetuity.
We know where that will end up.
We will have to preempt this propaganda by refuting it loudly before it even get’s put on the public’s radar by their noise machine. We will have to loudly declare the fact, starting now, that the oil masters, their political whores and their pseudo-scientific puppets are going to soon change their tune.
OK, I have another idea, and although I am obviously biased, I think this is a good one. (I can be a bit long-winded in describing potential projects, so skip to the last two paragraphs if you don’t care to read my lengthy setup)
One of primary difficulties in gathering a large group to march/protest/sit-in/etc is the concern that you’ll show up and only 12 other people will come. Awkwardness ensues.
There’s a method to guarantee that either a) a sufficiently large group will be show up, or b) the gathering won’t happen at all.
The answer is to use an organizing mechanism similar to kickstarter.com. For those that are unfamiliar, with kickstarter, someone starts up a charity-oriented project, and people can pledge to donate. However, if an insufficient number of people donate, the project doesn’t happen. For example, I recently donated some money to a kickstarter project to press and sell a vinyl LP for the benefit of Rwandan genocide orphans. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1237733512/help-start-up-nfjm-030-a-benefit-lp-fea-no-age-dan-0) The project had a minimum of 5000 dollars in order to “kickstart”. Until a minimum of $5000 was pledged, the project wouldn’t start. This guaranteed that the founders of the project wouldn’t spend money to design and press the LPs until they were assured that they would make enough money to send over to Rwanda.
A similar concept could work for a giant march on Washington. Set the date far enough off in the future for local, state and national groups to organize. Set a minimum number of participants. Then use Kickstarter (or a similar mechanism) to help guarantee, say, a small local group of 15 youths in Wichita, that if they make the effort to get to DC, there will be tens of thousands of likeminded people there with them.
@45, spacermase:
…I would start raising funds to contract out one of the major advertising agencies (I know the environmental movement has an aversion to Madison Avenue, since it is definitely part of the consumerism establishment, but it really is one of the best way to get the word out to people, and we’d be fools not exploit it).
I could tell you, well ahead of time, that the Fossil Fuel Industry will easily preempt that by applying pressure to those advertising agencies. After all, don’t they use those same agencies themselves?
I go on the climate marches here in the UK, 10s of thousands of people turning out feels inspirational, but it’s depressing to see these numbers pale in comparison to other causes that seem of such marginal importance.
The reality is I don’t think the rich, westernised countries are going to be the ones where massive popular uprisings will be happening. It won’t be until we’re being affected directly by the impacts of climate change, until our food prices are rising beyond our means, that we will see the majority of people out on the streets. By then it will be too late. Hopefully we will have seen and learnt from the experiences elsewhere and will take action in time to at least give ourselves a chance.
RE # 48
Villabolo, most important point on this thread, so far.
Regarding the repugs and denialsphere using geo-engineering as their foil against doing anything to reduce AGW gases:
“We will have to preempt this propaganda by refuting it loudly before it even get’s put on the public’s radar by their noise machine.”
That propaganda message is already on their drawing board. We, of course, will stand on the sidelines and cry foul. Not much more.
As reactionaries and counter-attackers, we climate hawks are more like stuffed exhibits.
Does Fred Krupp work on weekends? Thought we might have heard from him by now.
John McCormick
So CPAC has a little get together. Gov Barbour makes a joke about GW. Now with between 150000 and 300000 dying per year due to AGW causes, it shows you what class people we are dealing with.
John McCormick (and other veterans of activism), you and I have spoken about this before but I’m just wondering what you would have us young people actually do?
I want to fully acknowledge that grassroots activism has failed in the past and yes we are facing an incredibly well organized opposition and even worse, we are facing an American public that distrusts or despises science and scientists. I think the pessimism is absolutely justified and it’s realistic to expect failure.
But what the heck are we supposed to do? There will never be the right time for us to act. There will never be action that beats the corporations and anti-science crowd. We are always fighting a losing battle. Of course it’s unrealistic to think a rally will work. It’s unrealistic to think anything will work no matter how sophisicated and well funded.
So this is pretty much all the youth have left. No one will listen to me or any other person my age. By the time I “grow up” and build a reputation and work experience so people trust me, it’s very possible the carbon feedbacks will be irreversible. Young people don’t have time. We just have what we know and what we think is right.
Again, I trust everything that you say. You know far more than I do about the history of the environmental movement and the best policy solutions. Please don’t think I’m rejecting your input.
Maybe history is doomed to repeat itself and us young people will think we can change the world with one rally. We will probably fail. But trying and failing is prett much all we have left.
What do you think?
Note: I think the pessimism of activist veterans is justified, not that I think the American people are justified.
@50 Vilabola
Oh, I have no doubt they would probably try- however, it would be trickier, since 1) the ad agencies are looking out for themselves first and foremost, and if the climate hawks have enough money involved, they will be less likely to cancel the contract because of outside pressure, and 2) depending on how the contracts for the advertisement campaign are written up, it could be grounds for legal action (and therefore, a lot of bad publicity for both the ad agency and whatever groups are trying to suppress the campaign) for breach of contract, since they’d have to have an actual reason for not following through on the campaign.
Basically, the idea would be use Madison Ave’s own highly mercenary nature to our advantage. However, I will freely admit I don’t know a whole lot about the current state of the advertising industry (I have relatives who were involved at one point, but they all got out of the game years and years ago).
Ian, I mentioned in an earlier comment the gutsy black woman who would not move to the back of the bus. This has reinforced my view that I cannot wait for entrenched environmental organizations, who are mired in competition with each other, and have *stars* who are convinced they are being successful, when in fact, they aren’t. I’m certainly in favor of a mass movement but I can’t sit idly by hoping they will mobilize… although if there is any action around Earth Day or the Mother’s Day march I will gratefully participate.
So my own choice, for what it’s worth, is to emulate that young lady who, in the year I was born, 1954, all on her own without any support whatsoever, was arrested, and risked being court-marshalled (she was in the military!) to protest injustice. Racism is hugely unjust…leaving future generations an uninhabitable climate is unimaginably unjust.
So I get out there any time I can – I went to Rancho Mirage dressed as a climate zombie with the Koch Kills banner, and got hollered at by representatives of Common Cause for being divisive! Next week, unfortunately I’ll have to miss this action in DC: http://www.thenation.com/blog/158509/calling-out-climate-cranks
But on Wednesday I signed on to be in Lautenberg’s Newark office with members of the Center for Biological Diversity to demand protection for the EPA mandate to regulate polluting greenhouse gases.
When it warms up I plan to fulfill my New Year’s resolution to get arrested, not sure exactly how yet, but I have some ideas.
It’s often a bit scary to become a spectacle, and engage the monumental evil forces that are hell-bent on destroying the earth – but the alternative is far more frightening.
Find your niche and pursue it with passion.
“The only battle worth fighting Ian, is the one you lose and lose and lose and finally win.
The Egyptians did not quit after the first or second or tenth or seventeenth. On the eighteenth they won at least 1/2 the battle.
Many progressives thought that we had won the night of Obama’s election. Turns out that we won about half as well.
ian:
* focus on the biggest sources: cars, buildings, coal, farming, industrial.
* what & when are the targets for global warming mitigation?
* what & when are the targets for peak-whatever mitigation?
* what can be eliminated or swapped immediately and what needs time?
* what are you asking people to give up and what can they get easily & surely in exchange?
* are you offering better quality, by their personal metrics?
* people perceive taxes-paid and benefits-received very differently. many who’d make a nice household profit from a fee-and-dividend system would refuse it on principle, waiting for another (sinister black) shoe to drop. are you distributing the cost according to perception?
* are you demanding that old dogs learn new tricks to survive?
* are you expecting bondholders to voluntarily write off physically-toxic assets?
* are you helping people see tomorrow?
Egypt has definitely made me think about engaging ‘people power’ to get the U.S. off the dime on climate change. Even if a march or two happens and NOTHING changes legislatively, I think it would be valuable as a response to the rabidly anti-science, anti-CC agenda being pushed by House Republicans.
That said, Egypt happened as a result of decades of oppression on the entire voting public. There’s no way anything comparable in scale is possible in the U.S. on climate change, when the public is fat, dumb, and happy in general, and when there’s such a low threshold of understanding and concern.
I like the idea of rolling marches/events across the country, for a few reasons:
–it’s much easier to get turnout region by region, rather than getting everyone to come to Washington for one march
–sustained pressure is what worked in Egypt, and is what is needed here. A one-time event won’t do it, because the news cycle just moves on the next day
–a series of marches/events that are all connected by the same agenda, same organizers, same message, will definitely get local press, and should also get national press
I’d propose a series of ‘Climate Teach-In’ events held around the country, perhaps combined with marches, in big cities. Ideally these should be organized and funded jointly by a few green groups AND, importantly, groups and individuals who are NOT the usual suspects on climate policy: Republicans for Environmental Protection, Ducks Unlimited, religious organizations…anyone and everyone who is demonstrably not a group you’d automatically think of as concerned about climate change. These events could include speakers from local universities.
If done right, Climate Teach-In events would ensure that at least some press attention gets paid to the overwhelming science behind AGW. They could also break out of the ‘there go the freaky left-wing green groups again’ reaction by highlighting the breadth of concern.
This would take a LOT of organizing, but we’ve got to do something besides play defense. We can and should be on the offense, but ultimate success will depend on A) a higher level of understanding and concern on the part of the public, and B) climate change having at least a little bipartisan support.
On the Media: Glenn Beck’s hysterical rants about Egypt play on fear
The Fox News host sees radical Islam gaining a foothold in the country, despite reports to the contrary.
We saw all the character traits from one figure looming over the Egypt story: the massive shows of emotion, the sketchy command of others’ views, the megalomaniacal refusal to recognize facts on the ground. And, as always, the willingness to say and do anything to command the stage for one more day.
We speak not of Hosni Mubarak, but of that other master of manipulation and misdirection, Glenn Beck.
What seemed like a joyous and hopeful turning point to most others in the media, including some of his Fox News colleagues, appeared to Beck, instead, as a foreboding and likely ruinous event for Egypt, for the Mideast and possibly for all of humanity. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-onthemedia-20110212,0,7125172.column
The Egyptian revolutionaries consisted roughly of four major groups:
1) Young people, many well-educated, often un- or under-employed.
2) Average folks, many blue-collar and working poor, desperately stressed economically, and driven into panic over food prices (a clear AGW link, as many have noted here).
3) Long-time anti-regime political actors and parties, ranging from the Muslim Brotherhood to El Baradei et al.
4) The professional classes, making a living but increasingly seeing reduced opportunities and very aware of global-north (first-world) standards of living and freedom.
All four groups have partial parallels in the U.S., but they are far from unified in political direction. For example, much of the group 2 energy and many of more entrepreneurial in group 4 are drawn to Tea Party-type stories and solutions.
And, of course, our executive branch is not a brutal repressive dictatorship, but rather a corporate-liberal enterprise, with moderately progressive policies in many areas. So Egypt’s group 3 equivalent doesn’t map directly at all; here, it’s the disgruntled 10% left and the outraged 30% right.
(And in Egypt, as the next phases unfold, differences among these groups will be equally hard to bridge.)
For our organizing, I’d suggest we need to clarify our definitions of those demographics with the most current understanding of the AGW traumas ahead, plus those demographics with less understanding, but who will be among the most hurt — and yet are also open to learning (coastal residents? farmers?). That is, the climate-hawk base plus the climate independents.
These are not easy coalitions to build, but I believe that’s the community political organizing challenge we face. We can learn from Egypt, but (as many have noted here) weeks of mass rallies in public squares are just not in the cards right now.
Many great ideas and comments in this post (ZS, Ian, Leif, John Levering+Villabolo&John McCormick, Mike Roddy, Heraclitus, etc.), but political organizing really has to start with the impacted individuals, communities, and institutions who are ready to seek change.
Have we done enough yet to dig into that? Doesn’t feel like it.
Egyptians demonstrated to oust an autocrat. Westerners saddled with petrocrats can and should march and rally to demand a carbon tax, but in addition they must also come up with practical, disruptive acts showing readiness to leave their own fossil fuel-backed comfort zone and willingness to start moving towards a collective weaning from oil addiction – could be summarised as carbon disobedience.
dp,
Thanks for your response. I could be wrong but I’m guessing the point of you asking all those questions is to ‘prove’ that I dont know all the answers. How does that help anything or anyone?
The point of my previous comment was to counter the apparent attitude motivating your response. We will never have all the answers. Nothing will ever be perfect. No one is going to fix this. People have been asking those same questions that you posed since the start of the environmental movement. I may not know the answers but surely someone does. What has that accomplished?
It seems clear to me this war (if you want to call it that) is on the verge of being lost. Here is a question for you: are you ready to accept the fact that we will lose and what that means for humanity?
I realize I’m being very standoffish with this post. It’s probably not justified and I could very well be misreading your intent. Just remind yourself that young people have no future on our current path. It’s extremely upsetting and it should be for everyone on CP.
Thanks everyone.
Ian
The only lesson one can draw from Egypt, so far, is that the US and Israel will move heaven and earth to ensure that a puppet stooge rules in Egypt, and everywhere else for that matter. There has been a military coup by the US trained, financed and controlled ‘Egyptian’ military, and there will be no election, or perhaps a rigged one, certainly one in which the US, through the National Endowment for Democracy, spends millions to ensure that a pro-US stooge is ‘elected’. Private money and Saudi money will flow as well. The only eternal unchanging lesson is that the US ruling elite desires total control, everywhere, and that US malevolence will be drowned in sickly sweet and utterly cynical rhetoric. That’s Obama’s forte.
Ian: Take a look at Alec Loorz brief video at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raW7wu_XxPs
and you’ll be inspired that this young man didn’t listen to the legions of older folks telling him he could not make a difference.
Rolling protests may be a good alternative even though a bit less effective than massive crowds in DC. Plus there’s the hypocritical carbon footprint of air, bus & auto transport to get there. The real estate crowd says the most important factor is location, location, location… so I suggest we make ourselves a solidarity outfit (see below) and show up in every local town hall meeting of our legislators for the next year. According to Rachel Maddow’s reporting last week, the House of Rep. is taking every third week off to go home to meet with their “constituency.” So there’s a way to look the lawmakers in the eye with our climate concerns. Remember how obnoxious the GOP-Tea Party town halls were when in the news? But we saw them as a nation -in the news- because of their goofy tea bag hats and moronic signs… Goofy, but effective.
* How about a plain white t-shirt with one of the “iMatter” logos drawn or painted on the front and back from Alec Loorz’s website at: http://www.kids-vs-global-warming.com/Solutions.html They are simple to reproduce (could even be hand drawn and colored with fabric paint or printed as an iron-on) Reason for thousands of us dressing the same? What do you think of when you hear “code pink” ? Yep, the crazy (in a good way) women activists that sit in on legislative hearings when necessary…
Or maybe carry balloons representing the hot air, both figuratively and literally… Or rainbow colored scarves and ties… Anything simple and inexpensive – - except tea bags on straw hats, please! I’m checking my Rep.’s schedule and intend to wear an iMatter -iRestore (tree) shirt. If others present do the same, it will be great way to find like-minded folks with which to network.
As someone said on another site: it’s time to walk like an Egyptian…
Three young Egyptians who helped make a revolution
Hosni Mubarak had been the president of Egypt for longer than any of them had been alive.
Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/02/12/2064001/three-young-egyptians-who-helped.html
Humans who are born today or humans which are born in 10 years and so on, will have no real life experience of our climate state. They will breath a different kind of atmosphere, an atmospheric chemistry which is UNPRECEDENTED in the record of Earth history, when you add in the timescale of changes.
Ian and Joe,
Terrific thread, and many great comments above! Yes, Egypt holds lessons for climate hawks: As has been said before, even with the electronic wizardry of 2011, people taking forceful, impossible-to-ignore ACTION, in the streets, remains the activists’ choice tool.
The Drive to Preserve Civilization, Part 1
I would like to try to build on others’ ideas in comments above, and the Egyptians’ (where, as far as I know, a few brave individuals, kicked things off overnight). I’d also like to see us turn some of our problems into opportunities. For one thing, the US is a big country, so, as mentioned, we should do rolling actions, focusing on the top 10 cities, in alphabetical order, starting with Boston, and ending up in Washington. Then, if we haven’t achieved our goal, we repeat the top ten, only bigger, until Obama listens, or until we give him the political cover he needs in order to LEAD, however you want to view it.
The Drive to Preserve Civilization, Part 2
Our goal should be, as suggested, to go out and make Obama do something that he has the power to do literally overnight. Namely, to give a clear, concise, “STATE OF THE CLIMATE” address on prime-time national television and radio, broadcast to the world from the Oval Office. This address will lay out in clear, forceful, FDR-style terms, the
following seven points: 1) That we face a very serious, urgent and unprecedented problem in CC, 2) That fossil fuel interests have been intentionally confusing the public, and using their US government-subsidized, substantial profits to unfairly influence our government to selfishly preserve their high levels of profitability, 3) That we need to act NOW, working together, internationally to solve the CC problem, 4) That, as a result, he is immediately declaring a war on climate change, meaning, among other things, that he will refocus a large share of our defense budget away from historic military spending and towards preserving both US and world civilization, as suggested by some of our greatest thinkers, 5) That he is, in view of the aforementioned, immediately nationalizing the fossil fuel companies so that they can no longer deceive Americans about the truth of climate change, nor use their unbridled influence to direct American politics, 6) That fossil fuel company employees will be retrained to work in alternative energy occupations as appropriate for future US clean energy needs, and 7) That underutilized automobile manufacturing facilities will immediately be converted to wind turbine production.
These, IMHO, should be our seven demands. Many of our other needs, such as returning atmospheric CO2 levels to 350 ppm ASAP, will fall nicely into place if these seven are met. Once the fossil fuel Frankenstein monsters that we’ve created have been properly emasculated there is a very high likelihood that rational, scientific thinking will prevail.
The Drive to Preserve Civilization, Part 3
Another climate movement weakness, pointed out above, is that climate hawks represent a small percentage of our population. We can ask Wit’s End how many “CLIMATE HAWK” pins she’s sold, but I would guess the number to be in the low double digits. My further guess is that the total number of North American climate hawks would be in the low four-digit range. (My CH definition, for discussion purposes, is someone who has organized a public demonstration relating to CC, or who has participated 10 such events.)
So, how do such small, dispersed numbers manage to get the attention of the nation in these 10 top cities? Demonstrations and marches haven’t worked. Thousands have marched through Boston, hundreds have plunged into frigid waters in several states, huge “Stop Global Warming” banners have been hung from bridges in Pittsburgh, hundreds more have peacefully assembled in front of the White House as recently as 10-10-10, and so on. We need a more modern method, suited to an automobile-centric US culture.
ian:
you asked what people could do. in my opinion, to do anything, people need to answer those questions. they’re definitely intimidating and that’s not a complete list, in fact i’m sure others would make it or say it differently, and i was kinda more thinking out loud than anything. not putting you down.
this is gonna be a national project, a global project, and a fast one, requiring steady hands and flexible thinking. we don’t want anyone left out or grandfathered in. so i guess i’m saying, “be the change” has to be expanded, scaled all the way up to “be the government.” be the bridge they can cross.
The Drive to Preserve Civilization, Part 4
One possible solution suggested earlier on CP, would be something that could be called “cooperative driving.” Instead of hopping in one’s car to head for a planned climate action, as we often must, given our fossil fuel company-encouraged lack of suitable public transportation, why not invent cooperative DRIVING as BEING THE ACTION? What could be more American than that? All it would take for cooperative driving to have an impact would be for several people to drive more or less adjacent to each other on a major, two-to-four lane highway, somewhere between the minimum and maximum speed limit, in a safe, cooperative manner. This would be noticeable because most people are driving much faster than the speed limit, and in an unsafe, uncooperative manner. (Of course, the group would immediately disperse for emergency vehicles.)
Think about it. What might be the impact of several dozen activists spelling “350” with their bodies in a city park (no offense to the wonderful 350.org) versus several dozen activists encircling a city in a dozen cooperative driving teams? Hello, MSM story. Now picture this happening across the country and around the world. It could even stop traffic. Yes, this is admittedly pretty drastic, but isn’t preserving civilization worth it?
If desired, signs on the cars could say something such as “Going the Limit to Save Fuel and Lives,” then refer to any number of specific websites that would elaborate on the details of these and other claims made. NOTE: For carbon footprint-paranoid CP readers: US EPA data show that slowing a car by 5 mph saves seven percent of fuel consumption. Hence, depending on the fuel efficiency of the climate hawks’ vehicles (up to and including Volts and Leafs), the entire action becomes carbon neutral when zero to six other, follower cars have been slowed by merely 5 mph, and carbon neutral when zero to three follower cars have been slowed by 10 mph, etc.
The Drive to Preserve Civilization, Part 5
When these cooperative driving actions are multiplied across a given city (or across the country, or across the planet) in some reasonably organized manner, their impact expands exponentially, unlike what could be achieved with an equal number of climate hawks encouraging their contacts to attend a rally and hold signs in the city center, or to send Valentine’s Day cards to their congress people, as has been done by some groups. (No, I don’t think these approaches would have worked with Mubarak–again, the lesson: politicians understand strong action.)
So, working backwards from Mother’s Day, Sunday, May 8th in Washington, DC, we have to kick things off in Boston on Sunday, March 6th, with Chicago on March 13th, and so on. (We can fill in the other seven cities and dates later.) What do other hawks think?
Oh, to help organize these actions, one might use such tools as ThePoint.com, the fairly new collective social action website started by Andrew Mason, CEO of Groupon, the fast-growing, 50-million member social commerce website recently in the news.
Finally, yes, we do need the large, and small, environmental organizations to WORK TOGETHER to pull this off in the most effective way. We have enough people. We have the needed infrastructure. The key question, for the preservation of civilization as we know it, is can we set aside our petty differences and work cooperatively, as one, to save ourselves?
I, for one, sincerely hope so, for all our sakes! Let’s go out and make Obama do it!
VTY,
A.C. Hawk
What can we learn from events in Egypt?
Egypt is once again governed by a military dictatorship.
Egypt’s Path After Uprising Does Not Have to Follow Iran’s http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/world/middleeast/13islam.html?src=twrhp
Re 74.
Yes, David, there is not going to be adequate action addressing global warming and maybe peak oil until there is some form of a state of emergency instigated in the US and other developed countries. The effort and will required cannot be sourced any other way.
Here is chomSky being very eloquent…I like how he sums up the media behavior – them offering balance cover of 98% of scientist and sundry stragglers AND then totally ignoring the quite sizable group of scientist who are saying ist much worse than the consensus.
http://www.thenation.com/video/158093/noam-chomsky-how-climate-change-became-liberal-hoax
Perseverance and faith in a positive outcome! Egyptians have shown us this! Let’s keep it up and all do something to help take care of the planet…it’s going to take a mighty big village!
Prokaryotes#75, why, oh why, does the US, the New York Times or anybody else think that they have the right to dictate how Egyptians should govern themselves? If Egypt followed Iran that would just mean, as far as I can see, that the public has chosen a basically peaceful theocratic regime. Now I would not prefer to live in a theocracy myself, not an open one like Iran, nor a somewhat disguised one like Israel, or a little more so, like the US, but that’s up to the Egyptians. The arrogance of the US in judging other people according to its professed, but always betrayed, ‘ideals’, is nauseating. In any case, nationalism, chauvinism, jingoism, delusions of civilizational superiority and xenophobia are all obstacles to addressing the common peril that faces all humanity, that of ecological collapse. All efforts to divide humanity against itself along religious, racial and ideological lines are hideously destructive of common human effort, and we are in this together, and we will sink or swim together.
Please support and pass on….
“Addressing Global Warming, I vow to eliminate all my non-essential flying. It’s a moral issue…”
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By signing up to reducing your non-essential flying you make a big impact on emissions reduction in multiple ways.
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to consolidate action in tackling global warming.
Egypt, Tunisia, and the global solidarity actions teach us the effectiveness of the os insurgency.
OPEN SOURCE INSURGENCY >> How to start
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2008/03/starting-an-ope.html
2011 Global / World Wide Riots and Protest Have Started – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbvxBczskac
Mulga ask “why, oh why, does the US, the New York Times or anybody else think that they have the right to dictate how Egyptians should govern themselves? If Egypt followed Iran that would just mean, as far as I can see, that the public has chosen a basically peaceful theocratic regime. ”
Because of BP Oil … but this time we need no more oil for several reasons. But this time we have energy again in the equation, look at the european DESERTEC ambitions and the possibilities. Enough energy for all without much suffering and without big money transfers – instead technology to gain each other and to fight climatic state shift.
The 1953 Iranian coup d’état, on August 19, 1953 (known as the 28 Mordad coup[1] in Iran), was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom and the United States.[2] The coup launched 26 years of dictatorship under Mohammad-Rezā Shāh Pahlavi, who relied heavily on U.S. support to hold on to power until the Shah himself was overthrown in February 1979.[3]
In 1951 with near-unanimous support of Iran’s parliament, Mosaddegh nationalized the British-owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC). At the time, Iran’s oil was Britain’s single largest overseas investment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27état
Background and causes of the Islamic Revolution
The 1978-79 Iranian Islamic Revolution was a populist, nationalist and Shi’a Islamic revolution that replaced an ancient monarchy with a theocracy based on “Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists” (or velayat-e faqih).
Its causes — why the Shah (Mohammad Reza Pahlavi) was overthrown and why he was replaced by an Islamic Republic — are a subject of historical debate. The revolution was in part a conservative backlash against the Westernizing and secularizing efforts of the Western-backed Shah,[1] and a not-so-conservative reaction to social injustice and other shortcomings of the ancien regime.[2] The Shah was perceived by many Iranians as beholden to — if not a puppet of — a non-Muslim Western power (the United States)[3][4] whose culture was contaminating that of Iran. The Shah’s regime was seen as oppressive, brutal,[5][6] corrupt, and extravagant;[5][7] it also suffered from basic functional failures — an overly-ambitious economic program that brought economic bottlenecks, shortages and inflation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_and_causes_of_the_Iranian_Revolution
I think I just stumbled upon something brilliant!
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/02/lessons-of-egyptian-revolution-for.html
Lessons of Egyptian Revolution:
“But it is important to acknowledge that Mubarak didn’t actually agree to leave until the Egyptian people started striking.
Before the strikes, Mubarak said he would not run for reelection in September, but would hang on until then.
Egyptians started a nationwide strike only two days ago … 48 hours later, Mubarak is gone.
While the regime and the military paid lip service to “hearing” the protesters and agreeing to meet their demands, it wasn’t until the people started hurting the powers-that-be in their wallets – through strikes – that anything actually changed.
This shows that protests are not enough anymore. Not in Egypt … not in the West.
People throughout the world living in tyrannical conditions need to engage in strikes and other active (but peaceful) forms of civil disobedience which hit the tyrants and their supporters in their pocketbook before we can take our countries back.
As Karl Denninger writes today:
All persons in all nations should be aware of the fundamental fact that their government, no matter how oppressive, no matter how ugly, no matter how allegedly-free or representative (or not) exists only because you rise from your bed each day and go to work.
The day you stop, along with a sizable fraction of your neighbors and friends, and instead wave signs and demand change, thereby shutting down the engine of commerce is the day you remove through peaceful and lawful means the fuel that the government requires to operate.
Our “protests” in Washington and elsewhere fail to provide results because the “or else” has not been provided along with the protest. We come, we wave signs, and the next day we go home and go to work. If instead any sizable fraction of the population … were to appear, wave signs, and go on strike until and unless the change demanded was made… [then we would win.]“
RE # 77
Mulga, you said:
” If Egypt followed Iran that would just mean,as far as I can see, that the public has chosen a basically peaceful theocratic regime.”
Were you on holiday when peaceful Iranians recently went to the streets to demonstrate against their oppressors. Many were kidnapped, imprisoned, tortured, beaten, run over, punched, kicked and murdered.
I don’t get the peaceful part you mentioned.
Would that a few of those participants in the demonstration might comment.
John McCormick
John McCormick
Well we have given ourselves a nice little pep talk here. I know this is a progressive blog and that’s why I hang around. Most following this site are well informed rational people. On this site are younger, middle, and older people. Children, parents, and grandparents talking about going to the streets. Not just for ourselves but for future generations. I hope someone is listening because this is a big seed being planted. I know some of us remember the civil rights movement, a crowning glory for activism. Not many left still active from that era though.
As far as Egypt goes, what can learn. Turn that around and say what did we learn from Iran. Some ask what business is it of ours in
Egypt anyway. It all comes down to security. We will try to come across as caring about the people, and we do, but we care about security first. So as much as possible we will try to influence the outcome.
Ian, I have yet to see any mention of how college newspapers can play a part in energizing students and young persons to become more active in their defense.
Average undergrad was born when CO2 concentrations were about 340 ppm. By May they will exceed 395 ppm.
Reaching out to just a few major college newspapers and urging them to devote a week of issues to climate change and thereby inviting debate among the students along with full page ads, likely pro and con, would also help the students see the truths and lies.
You might want to visit the UCLA and Stanford student union folk and get a conversation started that could spread throughout the nation. I wouldn’t coulnt on the Bob Jones Univ. folk; but who knows.
CP could create a fund, to which I will be honored to donate, to help subsidize cost of ads and provide some publicity for more CP viewers.
Just a thought, Ian but this seems like uncharted territory.
John McCormick
There is a student group:
http://justandstable.org/
“Students for a Just and Stable Future (SJSF) is a student-led volunteer network working to ensure a just and stable future for our generation and the generations to come that are threatened by the siege of global warming. To this end we campaign for bold, tangible solutions to the climate crisis, we teach the science and impacts of global warming, and we organize for action in local communities….
Scientists, advocates, and policymakers have been aware for decades that burning fossil fuels is putting our world and our people in sincere jeopardy. Yet almost none have had the courage to call for the changes necessary to stop rapid global warming. We have had the courage to not just call for the changes we really need, but also the vision and the principled determination to see them through.
We will not stop until our state and nation commit to repowering with 100% Clean Electricity by 2020.”
That sounds very good!
Egypt’s Military Dissolves Parliament; Calls for Vote
The Egyptian military, for the first time publicly laying out the terms of its rule, said Sunday that it had dissolved the country’s parliament, suspended its constitution and called for elections in six months, according to a statement by the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces read on state television. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/14/world/middleeast/14egypt.html
Jemen
Pro and anti-government crowds clash in Sanaa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfs4AQDjEqk&feature=player_embedded
Ian, you can’t focus too much on whether a street protest ends up accomplishing its goal, since results come from cumulative action, not single ones. It’s tough emotionally to put your butt out there for an unknown result, but as Gandhi said once “Your action probably won’t make any difference, but you still have to do it”.
Or think of the samurai as he prepared for battle: he expected to be killed, and was at peace with it. None of us will be killed in a public protest here in the US, so let’s do it while that’s still true. If the fascists are allowed to fully take over, that will no longer be the case.
Hard to compare the two as in Egypt people could actually directly feel the suffering from the repressive regime thus easy to get the whole public riled up. In the United States the effects of climate change haven’t impacted enough people to cause this and never mind a large portion of the population doesn’t believe in global warming. People often base things on what they see personally and in the US although it is getting warmer, people aren’t noticing a dramatic change as in most parts of the US weather is greatly variable and pretty much every season you will get a taste of all the extremes. Many places in the US have seen abnormal cold this winter but in the coming two weeks many places will see abnormal warmth so many will just shrug this off as the normal variation. Likewise in the summer, the summer of 2010 was a hot one in the Eastern half of the country but the previous one was quite chilly so many saw this summer is simply cancelling out the previous one. Besides, I don’t think it will get to this point, since the Democrats are only as timid as they are because they know they would pay a price at the polls if they were more aggressive while the Republicans are only as much about delay and obstruction because they know a large part of the public agrees with them. If most Americans saw climate change as an urgent threat requiring urgent action, I can assure you the Democrats would be ready to take that action, even if only a slim majority felt this way they probably would, while the Republicans would at least grudgingly acknowledge the threat but call for some action but slower if the public overwhelmingly saw it as a threat. For one thing the US is a democracy while Egypt was a dictatorship and any change one wants can be made at a ballot box unlike in Egypt.
A. C. Hawk, above, has great potential with “Go the Limit.”
This same ploy was successfully used in Ohio during the early 70′s era, after the first Arab oil embargo. Some of you may recall this incident. Speed limits were lowered to 55 MPH to save gas, but many people simply ignored this. Three cars got on the freeway in Cleveland and drove 140 miles to Columbus, in adjacent lanes, at the speed limit all the way.
Drivers behind these three were furious, but they could do nothing. It was legal.
Not only was it legal, but the incident gardered national media attention.
So ponder this:
1. A few individuals could make a huge statement.
2. It could be done legally.
3. It could be accomplished on a huge nation-wide scale, quite simply.
4. It would attract media attention.
5. It could continue randomly, wherever, whenever, and in fact could even be employed specifically in the states of those elected officials who are blocking climate action.
6. A simple message like “Go the Limit to Save Lives” would not encourage road rage, but a website could connect-the-dots to climate action.
Of course, should a siren or road rage be apparent, one would move over to accomodate such!
As ex-military intel officer John Robb points out successful open-source warfare depends on simple, plausible promises. -> “Open source war is a byproduct of globalization. It different than conventional guerrilla warfare in that the guerrillas don’t have a center of gravity (a unifying ideology). In open source war, the guerrillas aren’t loyal to a single group but rather dozens of different groups, each with their own motivations for fighting. The benefits of this organizational type, once it reaches critical mass, are numerous (and once it is entrenched, it is almost impossible to defeat).” http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2006/03/starting_an_ope.html
in Egypt the promise was “Mubarak out.” it worked. now anti-government protests and actions are rippling through ME/NA countries and gaining vast global support.
so what are the simple, plausible promises of a climate change revolution? lower atmospheric CO2 to 350 a la McKibben’s 350.org movement? that’s not even in line with updated climate science – http://climatecodered.blogspot.com/2009/01/350-is-wrong-target-put-science-first.html. besides, climate change is only 1 of the many symptoms of a global social system predicated on perpetual growth, and energy consumption. this may be a bit more unifying for a global movement: http://endciv.com/
UK Uncut
Johann Hari has an article in The Nation on “progressive tea party” activism in the UK which shut down retail establishments over the holidays to shame their multi-millionaire owners who pay little or nothing in taxes while calling for government budget cuts. Starting with 12 people in a pub saying “why doesn’t someone do something” the protests mushroomed and had an impact (oddly not reported in the US). Much organizing was via twitter.
http://tinyurl.com/4q2x7o9
Advice, please. This is not my area but am seeking, uh, talking points, for lack of a better term, as to why this story is misdirected:
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/938029–the-first-domino-has-fallen-in-wind-turbine-plans
Evidently it is a case of NIMBY since the subject doesn’t seem upset about the Alberta oil tar sands, or having a nuclear facility in his town, etc. Seems to me the first order of business is Renewable, Clean Energy and work back from there rather than remaining smug that he has helped slay the Toronto Hydro Goliath… Thanks in advance for your wisdom and insight.
Awesome thread, Joe! Thanks for doing this. And thanks to Ian, too. Joe, will you please install a permanent link to this one, as you’ve done with others? It’d be nice.
I hope climate hawks, and incipient movement leaders, will take time to explore some of the great links, such as Sarah’s, above, then come to the realization that WE, the readers of Climate Progress need to be ‘THE LEADERS that we are looking for,’ as they say.
Yes, get together with some friends, or family, or associates, or some others who care about the future, then gosh darn it, get off your butts and DO the things you’re hoping others will do. START the things you suggest others do. That’s how change happens.
This, of course, doesn’t mean that the recognized leaders of the climate movement don’t have a key role to play. It’s just that there are so many options re what could be done, and so little time. Sometimes it helps to just start things going and pray. This is sort of how Bill McKibben got started, walking to Burlington Vermont with some friends.
Unlike in Egypt, as noted, we hawks have a huge challenge in the sense that so few people ‘get’ the magnitude and the urgency of the problem. Folks like the Kochs have clearly got the upper hand there. But, unlike them, we’re on the moral high ground.
Another point, relevant to this thread, I think, is the following:
Sometimes, I’ve learned from an ally, it’s good to ‘think outside the box’ when facing big challenges such as the one we face here, where only a few people see a huge problem. To paraphrase climate hero/hawk, Jim Hansen, democracy is ‘not working’ with regard to protecting Americans, and others, from the ravages of global warming. So what to do?
Well, consider what ‘nature’ does. She’s been around a bit longer than democracy, and may thus have some lessons we can learn from simply observing what she does in an analogous situation. (If you believe in evolution, the fact that we can observe it in nature today is adequate proof of its inherent success potential.)
So, forgive any shortcomings in my analogy, but let’s, for the sake of this thought experiment, think about global climate change as analogous to someone who’s going to have a heart attack, but doesn’t yet know it.
Let’s do the laughable case first: Suppose this person doesn’t seek treatment, nor mend his ways, until the majority of (voting) cells in his body agree that it’s time to change. Result? Heart attack for sure, and end of the evolutionary road for his gene pool.
Now let’s consider what often happens among those who succeed in avoiding the heart attack, thus extending their lives for another meaningful period of time. OK, I’m not a doctor, so here’s my lay view: 1) Symptoms appear. Possibly in the form of angina, or chest pain, caused by reduced blood flow to key heart muscles. 2) The person feels the pain and, if sufficiently educated, starts to think that something is wrong. 3) The pain repeats, only stronger, and it seems to come in response to certain activities. 4) The person (I’m shortening this for the sake of brevity) goes to see the doctor, takes appropriate steps to fix the problem, and is saved.
OK, now for the lesson part of the thought experiment. Ask yourself: How many cells were involved in getting the life saving message to the brain of the above individual? What percent of the person’s cells did they represent? What did they do to get attention?
Did the patient really WANT to go see the doctor? Was he glad he did, after the doctor told him that he as on the verge of having a massive heart attack?
Can a useful comparison be made between the above thought experiment and our current predicament? Are we like the relatively few cells in the above person’s body that can somehow get the attention of ‘someone’ ‘upstairs’ who is ultra busy with life, career, family, friends, and running the greatest super power in the modern world? Will the patient be reluctant to pay attention? Will he ultimately be glad that he did?
I think some of A. C. Hawk’s ideas (#68-73) above, among others, may apply here. Let’s see! If our future, enjoying a livable climate, and hence civilization as we know it, are at stake, it’s the least we could do. Folks who are interested please get in touch, or just act.
Cheers,
Roger
Day 3 of the Kentucky Capitol Sit in with Wendell Berry and other coal/mtn top removal activists
… walking like an Egyptian…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-biggers/live-at-the-ky-capitol-on_b_822537.html
Oh, one more thing relating to this interesting discussion of what we might learn, and hence, presumably, what we might DO.
Let’s note that to a very large extent, what we’ve been doing so far, despite all the best intentions, has not been working very well.
There’s a good saying that goes, “Always change a losing game!”
We’re facing a problem that’s unprecedented in human experience. Hence, as many great thinkers have said, one way or another, we can’t logically expect traditional solutions to be effective.
So far, what we’ve done, though using some modern tools, is pretty traditional. Something tells me that the answer, if there is one, will be nontraditional. (Repeating a bit for emphasis here.)
CP has some brilliant minds reading and commenting. Can someone think of a way, for those of us who care, to win this battle for our future??
Roger, re the losing game…
In the question #53 (page 41) of the Yale study, “Americans’ Knowledge of Climate Change”:
http://environment.yale.edu/climate/files/ClimateChangeKnowledge2010.pdf
“If you wanted to learn more about global warming, where would you go to get more information?:
61% – internet
44% – television
37% – books or magazines
34% – Government websites like NASA or NOAA
28% – Environmental groups
25% – Newspapers
21% – Family and friends …
15% – Museums, zoos or aquariums
13% – Radio programs
10% – Schools
5% – Movies
Btw, who controls at least half of the first two sources of GW news? Deniers, cranks, pollutocrats.
And only 10% of respondents would look to their schools for more info on Global Warning???
This reminds me of the line in Steve Martin’s genius film, “Roxanne”, when he said – We don’t want people to think: when you have a fire, whatever you do, don’t call the fire department!!!!
This also reminds me of the National Science Teacher Association (2006) turning down 50,000 free copies of the DVD, An Inconvenient Truth for US schools. (Wasn’t it something like big oil influence sharing linens with their advisory groups?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/24/AR2006112400789.html
But perhaps the best “losing” was our non-response/lack of outrage when Inhofe called fiction writer Michael Crichton to testify before the Senate’s subcommittee on climate change.
Can someone think of a way, for those of us who care, to win this battle for our future?
We are on the way, it is just a matter of time, because the problem will not go away – it will just get worse and more pronounced. With the chance of irreversible changes to the entire planet earth habitats.
There are a few die hard deniers, like the Koch Brothers, which run an orchestrated minion army. Once these few heads of the Skeptic Scene are gone progress will accelerate.
Clearly protests in the U.S. will need to be very, very disruptive to BAU for many WEEKS in order to have a chance of forcing Congress to do what’s really needed. Protesters need to completely shut down, for weeks, lower Manhattan (especially Wall Street), and Capitol Hill in DC, and business districts in Chicago, Boston and other major cities. Bring BAU as usual to a screeching halt, for weeks, then we might see meaningful change.
Let’s forget about the DC Mall–demonstrations there, even huge ones, don’t bother or hurt the powerful in any meaningful way.
Davos’ and A. C. Hawk’s comments highlight the question:
What’s **our** bold iconic demand, analogous to calling for Mubarak to step down? A demand that comes with no guarantees, but one that can be met at once, and when met immediately means transformative change.
Mubarak stepping down does not, of course, mean “genuine democracy” in Egypt. But in terms of positive feedback to political action (epitomized in the young Egyptian’s comment quoted by Obama: “I really count”), Mubarak’s response is visible at the scale of the challenge. And I don’t care how cynical anyone is abt the stepping down; it’s still transformative change.
I don’t know what **our** bold iconic demand is, but I believe we will discover it through the flourishing of nonviolent civil disobedience in this country in 2011.
Prokaryotes @87 — Elections in six months? Wanna bet?
Uhm, Yes David i noticed this. Well to setup election 3 month would be reasonable, agree? If they would not wanted change they would have had supported Mubarak with force. Can it get worse? I don’t think an egypt military dictatorship has a lot of chances other than results with chaos. I had some more thoughts after reading more about this topic. You can judge them by their actions and the outcome. Now is a good time for the EU to roll out plans about DESERTEC construction. And to tie this generation possibilities. Because it is of importance. There are reported thousands of african now trying to reach italy from tunisia and DESERTEC could help stabilize the MENA region and channel the revolution.
“We do not want any protesters to sit in the square after today,” said the head of the military police, Mohamed Ibrahim Moustafa Ali.
Tunisian immigrants streaming into southern Italy http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/02/13/italy.tunisia.immigrants/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robbmonty/2298868960/
Al Ahram, Egypt’s state-owned newspaper (not to be confused with Al Haram (The Sin) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Haram ) is the largest daily in the country. In September 2010, it doctored a picture to show Mubarak walking one step ahead of President Obama.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1312439/Egyptian-newspaper-Al-Ahram-photo-shops-Obama-picture.html
On the Media reports today that the staff got fed up with toeing Mubarak’s line and began reporting the revolution honestly.
http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2011/02/11/01
I think that’s one lesson climate hawks can take to heart: regardless of the pressure to conform, despite the fact that speaking truth will stop the paychecks, there’s a powerful incentive among journalists to stop lying.
Prokaryotes @104 — Unsure what your point is, but even if the military dictators actually want elections in 6 months many events can conspire so thay have no choice but to continually put the elections off for another 3 months and then another 3 and then…
John McCormick #83, the attempted coup, the failed ‘colour revolution’ you speak of in Iran, was put down with some violence, as any regime will when a foreign inspired and foreign financed insurrection breaks out. As for deaths, torture etc. I take all reports of these from the Western MSM propaganda system with several kilos of salt, and would imagine that more have died and been tortured in Egypt, so far, in their thwarted democratic rebellion. After all these Western MSM are the organs that told us Saddam definitely had WMD, that he possessed a ‘human shredding machine’ etc, and who treat Iran as a state enemy and whose propaganda involving Iran is 100% biased. The US pulled off successful ‘colour revolutions’ in Ukraine, Georgia and Serbia, installing stooges, but failed in China in 1989, and Iran in 2010. The Iranian election itself was not rigged, that is a propaganda lie. Ahmadinejad got the same proportion as in the previous Presidential election. The election was, it is true, rigged, but before-hand, by the vetting of candidates by the theocratic authorities, but an identical process occurs in the West where candidates are vetted by the money power that controls politics and the media. Those protesting in Iran were simply the wealthier elements who would prefer the return of a regime like the Shah’s, where they could dominate society more openly. To speak of them as ‘democrats’ is absurd.
Since the dismal deal at Cancun, many people have decided that social media has ‘failed’ us, and we must therefore commence a direct action campaign reminiscent of the 60s civil rights movement. The strategy is bound to fail. The civil rights movement was motivate by a clear contradiction between the principles of free society (enshrined in the US Bill of Rights and the UN Human Rights Charter) and social reality. There is no equivalent contradiction relevant to climate action. The world is WHACK, powered by systems that are set to destroy it, but it is not WRONG in the strict legal sense of being in violation of fundamental codes. Without a clear and unambiguous sense of ‘wrongness’ to inspire it, there is little hope of kindling a mass movement on the streets as we’ve seen in Egypt.
A new strategy is required. Here at Coalition of the Willing (http://cotw.cc), we are proposing that climate action orgs pool their resources to create a new kind of online infrastructure to enable grassroots climate and transition projects. Yes, people love their ‘e toys’. Instead of deriding this fact, why not turn it to our advantage and make use of it? People would be inspired to learn that social movements are committed to new strategies, rather than simply reheating old ones or giving them a web 2.0 makeover.
See here for our proposal: http://coalitonofthewilling.org.uk. You can join the WIP at http://cotw.cc.
Bolivian President Evo Morales flees food price protest
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12427057
All over the globe…
dp: You are right. All really good questions to be asking. Sorry. I misread your intentions. I don’t have all the answers and I should always be working toward finding new answers.
Also, THANK YOU to EVERYONE for your comments. There are a lot of great ideas here. Hopefully everyone is feeling inspired. I definitely am.
Thanks again.
-Ian
ianwittenber@gmail.om
being afraid of questions is epidemic… but this is the wrong century for being a stick in the mud… the mud is sliding down the hill…
RE # 107
True colors.
Mulga, lets drop the subject. I am.
John McCormick
Constitutional Referendum in Egypt Promised in 2 Months http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/Egyptian-Activists-Military-Rulers-Promise-Constitutional-Referendum-in-2-Months-116150319.html
Iran opposition: Will Arab uprisings spread?
As Iranian opposition groups threaten to rally in Tehran in support of the uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, the BBC’s Mohsen Asgari asks whether the Middle East political contagion could spread to Iran – the first non-Arab country. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12448627
Parts of iran experience historical droughts.