In a round of cable news interviews Sunday, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani went on the defensive for Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s comments about how his stardom allows him to treat women however he wants in a 2005 recording that surfaced over the weekend.
CNN’s Jake Tapper asked Giuliani what his response was to Trump “essentially voicing a casual attitude toward sexual assault,” to which he responded by saying Trump has apologized for the “horrible” remarks and and then pivoted to economic policy.
“They’re remarks you certainly don’t want to hear from anyone, much less a presidential candidate. Then when you reflect on it, he apologized for them. He said he realized that he was wrong, that doesn’t reflect the way he looks at things today. And I think he made a full and complete apology for it. He probably is going to do it again tonight. So, then we have to factor that into all the other things that are evolved in this election which includes what’s going to happen with our economy, what’s going to happen with us nationally.”
Tapper struck back in saying, “First of all, let me say that I don’t know that a lot of people who saw the tape who saw the apology thought it was a sincere apology. I’ve heard Trump supporters describe it as not seeming sincere…Normally a full and contrite apology is just an acceptance that one did something wrong.”
Giuliani later said “Gosh almighty, he who hasn’t sin throw the first stone here.” To which Tapper replied, “I’m happy to throw a stone. I don’t know any man, I’ve been in locker rooms, I’ve been a member of a fraternity, I have never heard any man ever brag about being able to maul women because they get away with it, never.”
Giuliani fought Round 2 on ABC with George Stephonopoulos telling the host that Trump is a changed man now that he’s a running for president.
Stephonopoulos retorted saying that Trump, then 60, described sexual assault on the tape: “The problem isn’t just the words. As both Sen. McCain and Vice President Biden pointed out, what Trump is describing in that tape is sexual assault.”
Giuliani insisted that the GOP candidate was being braggadocious despite having a history of being accused of harassment and assault. “That’s what he’s talking about. Whether it happened or not, I don’t know. How much exaggeration was involved in that, I don’t know. I do know there’s a tendency on the part of some men at different times to exaggerate things like this.”
“He said some very bad things 10 or 12 years ago. He’s apologized for it. It seems to me we should move on,” the former mayor said.
Giuliani’s defense of Trump’s remarks is indicative of how casually sexual assault is viewed in society. In his ABC interview he continued saying that he didn’t condone Trump’s behavior but said it was tantamount to a sin that could be absolved.
“I’m not trying to excuse or condone it. There is no excuse or answer for it other than [saying] ‘I’m very sorry and I wish I hadn’t done it and I’m not like that anymore.’ It sorta goes back to my faith I guess — you confess your sins and you make a firm resolution not to commit that sin again, and then the priest gives you absolution, and then hopefully you’re a changed person.”
CBS’ John Dickerson asked Giuliani again about how Trump was “speaking jocularly about sexual assault” to which the former mayor referenced religion and redemption.
Giuliani responded, “I hate to get terribly theological about it but have you ever read the confessions of St. Augustine? I mean the reality is men can change, people can change. Sometimes going through things like this makes you into a much better person.”
That may be true but that doesn’t mean Trump’s words aren’t telling.
Giuliani’s repeated deflections coupled with Trump’s stiff apology statement echoes the flippant nature of other powerful men’s initial reactions to high-profile sexual assault or harassment scandals. People like Bill Cosby and Fox News’ Roger Ailes enjoyed the benefit of such doubt for years. The common theme: powerful men accused of lewd behavior that are initially dismissed.
The father of former Stanford University student athlete Brock Turner who was convicted of sexual assault, famously said that his son shouldn’t be punished harshly for “20 minutes of fun.” NBA star Derrick Rose is on trial for assaulting a young woman with whom he had a relationship. In his deposition, Rose admitted that he didn’t know what “consent” was and asked it to be explained to him. And later the judge presiding over the case told Rose and his attorneys to stop slut-shaming the victim.