There’s a new weekly primetime talk show that doesn’t fit the mold. Instead of correspondents, it has sketches. It has two hosts: a woman and a gay man, and they are proud to be “liberal coastal elites.” And they’re also tackling niche issues that impact everybody’s daily lives, whether they know it or not.
Throwing Shade is the new venture from comedians Bryan Safi and Erin Gibson. An extension of their six-year running weekly podcast of the same name, it’s a show that combines political and pop culture rants, comedy bits, and lessons on the news of the day in a very queer package.
Though the first run of the show is only ten episodes, they align perfectly with the first ten weeks of the Trump presidency. And neither Safi nor Gibson are holding back. They sat down with ThinkProgress this week to talk about the show and the state of the world.
THINKPROGRESS: How are you two holding up in the Trump presidency so far?
BRYAN SAFI: Um…. Just glowing in it. It’s such a great time for this country, for me personally… No, it’s a horror show.
ERIN GIBSON: We were just talking about how often we could get B12 shots because we’re like exhausted. I mean, just the sheer amount of news that comes out everyday!
BS: I do have to say that the marching and the protests have helped me feel more on top of it. It is nice to see the outrage and hopefully to be at a point in 2018 or in 2020 where we never look back so…
BS & EG: We never have to go through this again!
BS: So that has helped me feel more on top of it, but it is a horrible time in this country and it’s a shameful time and it’s certainly upsetting. I don’t know, I’m just glad that we’re busy right now; otherwise I think I would lose my mind.
I read the New York Times every morning, and I watch The Real Housewives and The Bachelor at night.
EG: You probably feel like this too, but living in L.A. and being with people who are on top of this shit and are always reading about how women are being legislated against, and the LGBTQ community. It drove me a little bit nuts — I literally was like, “I have to leave L.A.,” because I couldn’t go to another party and talk about a pilot, or like, someone’s movie, because I was like, “There are bigger issues!” And now, that problem is gone! Everywhere you go, people are ready to talk about important stuff, and so I’m happy. I wish it didn’t have to happen this way, but I’m very happy to see people energized on stuff that is super important and that has been happening on the state level and now is just happening on a national level.
BS: We have friends who are running for local government and I don’t know if that would have happened otherwise, so I think it’s a difficult time, but I think if you try to stay on top of it it eases it a little bit. But there’s a big change that has to happen, obviously.
TP: You guys have admitted on the show that you’re “liberal coastal elites,” so who do you think is the audience for Throwing Shade?
BS: Well, the thing beyond being “liberal coastal elites” is that we’re from Texas, which helps a lot, because we sort of just fought religion and conservatism growing up our entire lives. I read the New York Times every morning, and I watch The Real Housewives and The Bachelor at night. So I think we’re trying to lend a voice to people who don’t feel on top of anything and I hope that it reaches them. We cover politics from a lens of pop culture, not from a lens of being lawyers — which we’re not.
EG: We do a delicate dance between high brow and low brow every single day. And sometimes we dip too far into one and then we just overcorrect into the other. But I do think because of our upbringing in Texas and moving to L.A. to pursue careers in the arts, we do operate on both of those hemispheres.
BS: I also think that first and foremost, we want it to be really funny. I think that laughing at people who bully you is such a refreshing way to take people down. Nothing makes you feel more on top of something, I think, than laughing at it. I’m hoping that that’s at least a breath of fresh air that we can bring.
TP: Well, and some of the episodes of your podcast that have been the most affecting have been like the episode you did after Orlando or the episode you did after the election where you guys are responding viscerally to it as well, and finding things to laugh at but also finding things to react in other ways to that doesn’t just come off as sterilized news.
BS: Right. I think part of the thing that helps in that sense is — on the podcast and on the show — we try to also cover things that are a little more under-reported and that didn’t get national coverage that affect women and LGBT people and really shine a light on those things. Often those things happen in very small towns, so we try to shed light on that stuff too.
TP: There’s been a lot of talk lately about “filter bubbles.” You guys are in L.A. You’re a white gay man and a white woman. Your topics are often about gay men and women and issues important to them. Are you concerned at all that you’re reinforcing those filter bubbles — that you’re kind of just speaking to people who want to hear that and not reaching anybody else?
BS: I’m constantly surprised by this demo that listens — and certainly in our live shows we see it — I think when you talk about issues that affect people badly, I do feel like you’re not necessarily speaking to people in a bubble. I hope that the comedy part of that releases. I think laughing at something is a pretty universal thing. Are you asking: How do we get people who are not specifically us to watch the show?
TP: Well, are you concerned that you’re just going to speaking into an echo chamber?
EG: I have to say, I hope not!
BS: Yeah, me too!
EG: I don’t think that anybody who’s going on sports shows is ever worried about anyone who doesn’t like sports watching their show. All are welcome, but we are talking to people who care about these issues, first and foremost. If you feel like you can laugh and learn something from our show, that’s great! But we are a niche show!
BS: We’re also living in a time where there is certainly a very clear symbolism of evil in this country. A lot of people more than ever are understanding that, so I hope that they can find some sort of power in that.
I think that laughing at people who bully you is such a refreshing way to take people down.
TP: There’s also been talk about “identity politics.” Are we focusing too much on framing issues around specific groups or subgroups that are most impacted by them? And you guys are unabashed that you are focusing on issues that you experience through your identities in that sort of way. It’s clear you’ve already made a commitment to that, so what is the value of framing news stories through the perspective of an identity lens?
BS: Well I think understanding the other identities! I don’t think we’re at a point where we’re like, “Oh yeah, I get transgenderism now. Oh yeah, I get ‘Black Lives Matter’ now.” We’re not there as a country. I’m really thankful that we are in a time of identity politics — to fully understand what the politics are, what the perspective is, what the point of view is, and what that struggle is, and really learning about it! Because I feel like everyone thought after Obama was elected that suddenly all the problems would resolve and these issues were largely settled, and when you look at what the reaction to all of that was in this last election, you know that they weren’t. When you look at something like the Muslim ban, you especially know that they weren’t. So I think we are constantly learning ourselves. Maybe we are “liberal coastal elites” living in this bubble, yet there’s certainly a lot for us to still learn, so I would think that that would be that way for everybody.
EG: I feel like the people living on the coasts aren’t the ones living in the bubble. The people who are living in the bubble voted for Trump because they wanted things to be how they used to be. That, to me, is living in a bubble. I don’t think that’s recognizing all of the voices that are out there. I hope that — and we try to — do a good job of representing an under-represented point of view in the television landscape right now.
TP: One of the things I think you do really great is modelling allyship. We have all these feuds about, “Should straight women be taking over gay bars?” and things like that, but when you guys talk about it with each other — as friends, but also as colleagues — you’re talking about these issues appreciating where the other person is coming from. And then you talk about trans issues, issues affecting people of color, other communities that don’t necessarily share your identity, and you then transfer that to show how to be allies to them, even if they’re not present in the conversation. What have you learned about how to be an ally, how to be more inclusive, and just thinking beyond your own perspectives?
EG: Well definitely listening is the first step for me. When we get listener feedback and it’s constructive and it’s expressing a point of view, we read it. And we’ve made corrections on the podcast when we think we have said something that wasn’t exactly right.
BS: I’ll never understand why people apologize “if they feel like they’ve offended someone.”
EG: We always apologize!
BS: And I don’t think Erin and I have ever been like, “We’ve stopped learning! We learned it all!” You always have to approach something as, “Oh, I didn’t know that,” and to constantly really be open to learning something new, understanding if you’ve offended someone and why, and really, how to grow from that and be a better person from it. I don’t understand why anyone would ever hesitate to apologize for something that maybe they’ve done or said that’s wrong. That’s such a dumb thing to me or saying like, “I’m sorry if you were offended.”
EG: How hypocritical would it be if we did that! Part of our podcast is talking about the “napology,” which is a fake apology where you say, “I’m sorry you were offended.” With me, I even learn from the people that we’re skewering, because I’m like, oh, I see what they did there and how they think their apologizing is right and this is what they’re doing and make sure never to do that.
BS: This whole conversation about “political correctness” is really just thinking before you speak and choosing your words in a way that doesn’t offend people. I think you can certainly still be very funny while being politically correct. And it’s the right move to make.
TP: Can you give a specific example of a time where you felt like you thought you knew what you were talking about and someone came around and said, “You guys don’t get it at all,” and you learned from that?
BS: There was a conversation we had had about electro-shock therapy. We were just weirdly dismissive of this bunk science. It was like, “I just can’t believe it still exists, how ridiculous, how stupid!” And we got a ton of people who wrote in and said, “You really shouldn’t talk about this if you’re not sure how it’s useful because it is very useful for a lot of people who were dealing with severe depression or bipolarism.”
EG: People who it’s actually helped emailed us and we were like, “Oh, OK, we fucked up.”
BS: That was like the first thing I thought of. And someone said, “I think it would really be helpful if you removed it from your podcast so you don’t stigmatize it,” so we removed it. And then next week we started with, “Hey, we heard you, we’re very sorry, we’re constantly learning.”
You can be a political person even though you might not think you are. I think we want people to know that you can get on top of things that are overpowering in your life.
EG: We apologized! It was also chiaroscuro. Brian couldn’t say it right and we got a lot of fanmail explaining what it is.
BS: And another one. It was after the Stonewall movie came out and I said how gross it was that they whitewashed that movie and I said, “God, I’m conflicted because I feel like I should support any movie that promotes Stonewall and gay rights, so maybe I’ll see it, but I’m really bummed the way they cast it.” And people wrote in and said, “Don’t see this movie. Be only outraged at the way they cast it. Don’t see it. That shouldn’t be enough for you.” And that really changed my perspective in terms of, “You’re right! It shouldn’t be enough for me. Guess what! It’s not enough for me!” and I got really upset about it. And in the next episode, I said, “Listen, I made a mistake. Don’t see this garbage. You deserve better.” So that was another example.
TP: Do you have any concerns about being too broad and running out of things to cover, or do you feel like as the show moves along you’ll have the chance to be more nuanced with it?
EG: We have ten episodes right now. This is the pessimist in me, but if we only have ten episodes, we’ve got a lot to talk about. And we want to do that in the best way, and we want those Act 2 and Act 3 pieces to be those evergreen “these issues aren’t going away.” And the Act 1 can kind of serve as a “this is what’s happening this week.” So that’s the approach we’re taking.
I feel like the people living on the coasts aren’t the ones living in the bubble. The people who are living in the bubble voted for Trump because they wanted things to be how they used to be. That, to me, is living in a bubble.
BS: But also to your point, the idea is: There’s this big crazy thing that’s happening and I bet you don’t know about it. And I feel like that does sort of turn people on their feet more, to be like, “Wait really? There’s going to maybe be federal legislation about these religious freedom laws?” or, “Oh wait, the gay blood ban still exists?” or, “Oh wait, gay conversion therapy is in the Republican platform?” I do feel like those are stories that I think make light bulbs go off in more people’s heads than not.
EG: And also we have the discussion all the time, which is: Is this something that we know because we read about it every day, or is this something that we think everyone already knows? And more often than not, we might be hearing about these stories for years and year and years. This week I tackled the tampon tax, and the lady who does our sound is taking the mic off of me and she goes, “I didn’t know I paid for taxes on my tampons!” We got off stage and immediately someone was like, “I didn’t know this.” These seem like big issues, but I don’t know if people know about this stuff. Certainly the readers of ThinkProgress do!
TP: What do you want your audiences to take away? If you had to encapsulate Throwing Shade, the show and/or the podcast, in sort of one overarching goal, what would it be?
BS: That you don’t have to be under any of this stuff. You can be on top of it. Just because you watch The Kardashians and occasionally look at a newspaper — or just watch The Kardashians! — that there is a lens. You can have power. You can be a political person even though you might not think you are. I think we want people to know that you can get on top of things that are overpowering in your life.
EG: And feel like you have a base level of knowledge of what’s happening to you, even if you don’t know it’s happening directly, and let other people know about it.
Throwing Shade the show airs Tuesday nights on TV Land at 10:30 ET/PT and Throwing Shade the podcast comes out on Thursdays.
This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.